The Truth About Hormone Therapy & Career Success with Tamsen Fadal

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I'm JJ Virgin PhD dropout. Sorry mom turned four time New York Times Bestselling author. Yes, I'm a Certified Nutrition Specialist, Fitness hall of Famer and I speak at health conferences and trainings around around the globe. But I'm driven by my insatiable curiosity and love of science to keep asking questions, digging for answers and sharing the information I uncover with as many people as I can. And that's why I created the well Beyond 40 podcast to synthesize and simplify the science of health into actionable strategies to help you thrive. In each episode, we'll talk about what's working in the world of wellness, from personalized nutrition and healing your metabolism to to healthy aging and prescriptive fitness. Join me on the journey to better health so you can love how you look and feel right now and have the energy to play full out at 100. When you think of menopause, your mind probably goes straight to the negative. Hot flashes, mood swings, body changes. But what if I told you menopause could be an opportunity for growth, empowerment and even career reinvention? Today, we're pulling back the curtain on a subject that affects every woman, yet is rarely discussed openly, especially in the workplace. For decades, women have been navigating the challenges of menopause while trying to maintain our professional lives, often suffering in silence. Have you ever gotten a hot flash during an important presentation or brain fog in a big meeting? How about struggling to keep up your energy before 5pm? I mean, these are realities many of us face, but we're just not talking about it. Today we have the incredible Tamsen Fadal on the show to talk about how menopause doesn't have to derail our careers or diminish our quality of life. After 30 years as an award winning news anchor, Tamsen experienced her own menopause journey in the high pressure, public facing world of broadcast journalism. This firsthand experience sparked a passion that led her to completely shift her career focus. Now she's dedicated to changing the conversation around women's health and workplace equality, with a special emphasis on menopause awareness and support. Tamsyn brings a unique blend of personal experience and professional expertise to our discussion. She's the co producer of the M. Shredding the Silence on Menopause, an absolutely groundbreaking documentary on pbs. She's also the author of the upcoming book how to Menopause, which promises to be the girlfriend vetted guide we've all been waiting for. In this episode, we're going to unpack the realities of menopause in the workplace, explore strategies for managing symptoms while maintaining your professional edge, discuss how we can create more supportive environments for women in all stages of life, and so much more. Whether you're approaching menopause in the thick of it or want to better support the women in your life, this conversation is packed with insights that will change the way you think about this phase of life. Let's dive in. Hey jj, Virgin here. Okay, real talk. So often the holidays sneak up on me. Travel, gifts, hosting, you know, all the things and suddenly it's like, wait, who spent what and where? And I know I'm not the only one who's looked at a bill in January and thought, wow, that escalated quickly. If you want to keep your finances under control this holiday season, you need to be using Monarch. It's rated the Wall Street Journal's best budgeting app of 2025. Monarch is the all in one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean on your laptop or on your phone. Monarch lets you link everything and gives you real time visibility so you're not shocked later. Right now, I've been checking the holiday spending category so I don't accidentally start the new year with that dreaded debt hangover. And honestly, just seeing everything laid out is already helping me stay more aware. This season. Monarch does the heavy lifting. It links your accounts in minutes, gives you smart categorization and super clear visuals. Yes, that end of year reset could be a real goal. This time. Don't let financial opportunities slip through the cracks. Use the code virgin@monarch.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year@monarch.com with the code Virgin at Sierra. Discover top workout gear at incredible prices. Which might lead to another discovery. Your headphones haven't been connected this whole time. Awkward. Discover top brands at unexpectedly low prices. Ciara, let's get moving. Welcome to the show. Tamsen Fadel.

Nice to see you.

Crazy it had to take this long to actually meet you. Although I think we've met somewhere along the line.

I think we've met too. I think we've met too.

Yes, yes. Well, this Is you're in, like, just this crazy spot. And I'm really excited to dig into everything you're doing from having a book coming out, how to Menopause, and a documentary coming out. But I think what's most interesting is you, with 30 years in news anchoring, got to go through your menopause journey on air, didn't you?

I did. I didn't know that was going to be the story, but, yeah, it.

That happened in broadcast news where he was sweating. Was that. Was that you with the female version?

That was me. That was me in the dress with a little, you know. You know, it's just. It's interesting. It's funny, you know, TV news and I think just our generation, it was always about, like, staying young, not sharing your age, not talking about it, not aging in front of the camera. So for that to happen was kind of ironic, to say the very least, that for somebody who was trying to be so buttoned up all the time, you know, I didn't have much of a choice at some point.

Yeah. So walk me through us through your menopause journey. Like, when did it start? Because you've made a massive shift and really taken on menopause, being a major out there advocate, which is incredible. So how did. Walk me through your career and how this happened?

Yeah, it's funny. It was. I wasn't paying attention to any of those things. You know, I'd had all these symptoms now that. Now, as I look back, understand what it was. You know, the can't sleep, body's different, eating less, gaining more, working out the same, exhausted, you know, gaining weight around the middle and feeling a lot of brain fog. Didn't even have a word for it at that point.

And when was that?

You know, it was in my mid-40s. I'd gone through a divorce in my, you know, in my early 40s. And I always attributed everything to that. It was years of it. It was a lot of stress. It was a lot of fighting. It was a lot of all those things. Right. And so anytime I would have a problem, I'd go just so stressed out. So stressed out. I can't sleep. I'm so stressed out, I can't think. And that was kind of where I left it. And I. At 49, it was November of 49. It was one night I was on the air, and I'd been having some, I think, a lot of anxiety of, like, being on the air, which I'd not had. I mean, when you run out there.

For 30 years, why would you have anxiety.

Yeah, you don't have anxiety anymore. And people would say, like, do you get nervous? And I go, no. But I was having that, you know, a little lack of confidence. I'd look at a word. I couldn't remember it, but I knew I knew the word. And so those things were happening, but they weren't happening consistent enough where I'd say, like, I need to go see a brain specialist. And then this particular night, we were in a commercial break, and I worked in a studio of all men. You know, men, camera operators, men, anchors, sports anchor, all men. And I was feeling, like, off. I knew we were coming back from a commercial break. I was on fire. Like, everything was sweating. And I felt my heart just banging out of control. And I thought, I'm gonna throw up, pass out. I don't know what's going on. And I said jokingly, because I didn't know if I was gonna make it through this next segment, which was a segment I always did, which was the business report. So I knew it was like, just on me. If I fall over, somebody catch me. And the sports guy who was across the studio said, wait, are you joking? And I said, I don't know. And he goes, I think you should get off the set. And so he walked me to the bathroom, and I laid on the floor. Not something I would do in my right mind. Buttoned up in my sheath news dress. And then I, you know, it passed. He's like, are you okay? Is it your heart? Is it your. I was like, I don't know what it is. I left. I didn't finish the newscast that night. They finished it out for me. And the following week, I made an appointment with my gynecologist. And then I talked to my therapist. And then I went to an endocrinologist to do blood work as a result of the gynecologist. And then not too long after that, I got a note in my patient portal that said, in menopause, any questions? You know how they, like, write little.

Doctor notes in menopause? Any questions?

And I was. I was actually in Tampa at the time.

And. Did you have any sense? And the reason I asked this is one of my closest friends literally hadn't seen her for months. And we got together before an event, and we were going to spend a couple days at this spa together. And she walks in and she's. She's put on, like, ten pounds. She doesn't look like herself. She's completely stressed out. She thinks it's because she's been Moving. She's stressed. Same story. And I'm like, no, you're not. You're in menopause.

I love that she had a friend to say that, though. That's amazing.

That's crazy. She's in the health space. I'm like, come on.

But sometimes, right? What's in front of us? Well, you know what's interesting? So, I mean, this is a little tmi, but I had endometrium polyps, so, you know, you go 12 months without your period. So I would get, like, bleeding constantly. And I'd had all the big, like, a month of bleeding. No bleeding for six months, but. And so that must have been my perimenopause part that I thought was more stress, but because of endometrium polyps, you bleed. I still bleed. So I didn't realize that I wasn't like. I went a year, never saw anything, Never had, you know, never had. Had that mark, one of the markers. Right. So for me, that wasn't my sign. And. But all those other symptoms should have been. Anyway, so I got that in my patient portal, and I. My then husband, now then boyfriend, now husband. I said, like, I'm in. I'm in menopause. Like, I can't. I'm only 49 and, you know, average age. And. And I said, I can't, and I can't have kids. And he goes, you. You made that. Didn't we make that decision? And I was like, I know, but, like, now it's official. And he goes, okay, yeah, let's talk about it when we land, because we're getting on a plane anyway. That's where it started. But I. I think what, you know, what morphed into this next. This next place was just really kind of like looking at a lot of the research and the numbers and trying to understand how it happened. And then I wanted to, like, figure out how to take care of myself. I lost my mother to breast cancer. I didn't know hormone therapy was an option. I'd always thought that it wasn't. And so the more I went down this down into, like, looking at research, and because that's what I know how to do, I just not ask a lot of questions. I realized that a lot of women had the same questions that I did. And I think that that's. That's really where it started. I don't know if it was one particular. Aha. You know, this is what I'm going to do, because it never was. It just continued to be something that I couldn't stop talking about you're a.

Journalist and you just put your focus on menopause. And we're very happy you did, because it's still amazing to me. And in fact, just having a girlfriend going through this, I'm like, how is this? Why is this not out here?

I know.

You know?

I know.

And it was interesting when I started going through it. I've been teaching a course for years to healthcare practitioners about weight loss, resistance, and all of the different things that could get in the way of you losing weight or cause you gain weight. One, of course, is menopause. Right. Despite the fact that you'll hear from people going, oh, your metabolism doesn't change. I'm like, you must be a man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mine changed, you know, because my mother called it shifting sands, where your butt now looks like your gut. And I'm like, I'm not having that. I will not be having that. I had bleedy gums.

Oh, wow. Yeah, it's. Some of the things are crazy symptoms. Right, Right. And what was that? Was it a lack of estrogen?

Low estrogen? My dentist was like, oh, low estrogen. And I'm like, then, you know, I think back, I owned a gym and wellness center at the time, and I had, you know, all my clients, basically from the time I've been 20, have been women, 45 plus. And I remember getting women coming in. And now I understand from Dr. Vonda Wright what this is. But frozen shoulder, who would have ever thought?

Brutal. I had no idea what that was. I had no idea. So did you have women that were dealing with it? Because I realized I couldn't put my arm around somebody to take a picture. And I went, oh, my gosh. Did I catch frozen shoulder from someone in this room? We were at a conference, and I was like, now I have it. You know, I will say what is interesting, going back to bleeding gums, in the documentary that we did dental, I didn't know dental was ever a part of this. Like, I learned a lot through this process, which is always kind of why I love to do these kind of things and research things, especially this. Cause I haven't done very many stories that really affected me. I did news stories. Afghanistan or whatever city I was in, or the crime. I never did something that I was really dealing with. But I didn't realize that women lose teeth in menopause. I didn't realize bleeding. I didn't understand all of those things from a dental perspective, too. It just, like, no area is untouched in a lot of ways.

Right. So let's start with that, because I love the fact that you did this documentary, you've written this book, so you've got a lot of wisdom and pearls here. What were the top questions that you were asking? You said other. You were getting asked by other people. What. What were some of these questions?

Yeah, I mean, I think the big one was when I had myself, like, you know, what are some of my options out there? Hormonal and non hormonal. I lost my mom to breast cancer. She was diagnosed at 44. So that was always kind of something that sat over me. You know, that was kind of my cloud of fear. And so when I realized what I was dealing with, and then I went back to see what my options were, because that wasn't part of the. The patient portal. It was like, hey, you got this. And then it wasn't, hey, here are some things you might want to keep in mind. Options. So I went back to find my options, which is why I went from doctor to doctor, and I didn't think hormone therapy was one of them. So that was one question that I get a lot like, isn't it dangerous? And so what I didn't understand was there was a study that was done in 2002 that had a lot of misinformation, a lot of women very confused. The next big question is, what else can I do if I don't want to do hormone therapy? You know, what are the lifestyle changes? You know, what? You know, is it true that my workout has to change? Is it true that I'm still gaining weight when I'm not changing how I'm eating or working out? That was another really big one. And then, you know, I think the third one, which is something that we're still trying to wrap our heads around, is why doctors haven't been educated on it. And one doctor after another is more than happy to admit that they got very little training in medical school. And I think that that part is the part that maybe shocked me more. I didn't know to ask that question. I just realized it after talking to enough doctors that they were saying the same thing. But doctors sometimes get one hour, sometimes get one week, get very little training on menopause. And so when a woman finishes her, you know, her, you know, having children and she's in her, you know, whatever, 45 years old kind of healthcare goes off of a cliff for her. She just sort of doesn't exist anymore.

Yeah. And she goes off a cliff if not taken care of.

Exactly.

It was interesting to Me, early on, I was doing seminars with this doctor out of Santa Barbara who is a brilliant endocrinologist and Suzanne Slummer's doctor and started to go into all of this. And at first she was told she couldn't do menopause treatment as an endocrinologist. And she's like, I'm a hormone specialist if I can't do it. And then you look at and go, well, if the OB GYNs aren't trained in it.

Right.

And the endocrinologist, supposedly, who.

Yeah, I know. Well, that's the. And that's the frustrating thing for me. And when I hear myself give women the answer, trust your gut and you know your body best. And while I do believe that 1,000%, I think it sucks to put the onus on the woman to try to make these decisions themselves with very little information.

Right. Well, and the information out there being like, that Women's Health Initiative. That is just ridiculous. We actually broke it down on this show. Did you have Dr. Felice Gersh? Did you happen to.

No, I did.

Oh, my gosh. She's one you'll definitely want to. I'll link to the interview because she broke down the Women's Health Initiative, and she actually now focuses on what she calls the forgotten women. And when you think about it, it's that woman 65 plus, who, you know, got screwed by the women's health industry.

They're very angry, too.

Right. And they think they can't go on hormones, and she's actually going and putting them on hormones. So I think that's one of those myths out there. So, yeah, let's bust through some of these myths and some of the stuff that you learned as you did the documentary. And then I'd also love to voyeur into what you do, too. But as far as the whole HRT question, having been able now to interview a lot of different doctors, what did you unpack about that?

Yeah, I think what I unpacked for myself personally and then shared continually was the contraindications of who cannot do it or should not do it or it's not recommended for. And I always thought, because I was a daughter of a mother that had breast cancer, that was off the table for me, and that's not the case. I myself didn't have breast cancer, and so I am eligible for it. And it is one of the things that I do do, and it has made a big difference, you know, And I was one of the people that was like, never. I'm gonna Handle it all myself, because I can suck it up and get through it.

But I think that's like women that say they're gonna have natural childbirth, and then all of a sudden they're like, I was.

You know, I was. I was natural hormone. But yeah. So anyway, so that's. That was one of the big ones that I think that was very enlightening to me to be able to understand and to share for people to understand that and what they can do and who is. Who is able to do hormone therapy. You know, I think the other thing is understanding that the age group that they were looking at with that 2002 study was not even the age group we're talking about. It's now the age group you were talking about with the forgotten women age group. And three, what they were actually looking at there. This was studying something completely different. And so I do feel a huge responsibility as a member of the media to know that those headlines went out there. That was. There was a lot of misinformation, and that's never really been corrected or rectified. And the fact that we really haven't done another study like that to help the next generation of women that are looking at going into this transition, which is bizarre.

Why do you think that is?

Oh, I mean, come on, give me the women. That's the first part. That's the first answer. Women. Second part is, we're still fighting for dollars. The third part is we weren't even part of health studies until, what, in the 90s? It's just. It's the things that I learned. I constantly don't want to be shocked, and I am. And I thought we got past all this, and we haven't. And so I think that's why I couldn't stop talking about it. I think that's why, look, I've done millions of stories, thousands, tens of thousands of stories, and I never found one that was so that hooked that took me here, and I couldn't stop following it.

So what did you find? For those who don't, although I'll share a story. I had a woman come up to me after I'd done a talk about diet and exercise, all the lifestyle stuff, and she goes, I'm doing all of that. She goes, I cannot lose the weight. I cannot, you know, and she goes, but I want to do this naturally. I'm like, your body produces hormones naturally. You're going to help it go back to, you know, give it back what it had. So where would that be unnatural? So, you know, I Always want to say that because I think we have this idea and I'm like, yeah, but what were some of those recommendations? I will say full disclosure. And I just don't see them compared to taking the hormones. Like, it's not even close.

Oh, doing those things.

Yeah, I think you do those things to support so you can use the least amount of hormones.

But, yeah, I think, you know, look, I did all those things. A lot of those things. I continue to do those things. I didn't stop doing them because I.

What are those things for you?

Oh, for the workouts. Yeah. Well, so for hormone therapy, real fast, I do estradiol, I do drink progesterone, huge difference in my sleep. And I am now doing topical testosterone, a tenth of a man's, you know, amount of testosterone. So that's what I do with hormone therapy. And I'm pretty. I'm open about it. And I'll be honest, I was one of the ones that initially was like, I'm not gonna. I don't want to talk about it. But now I'm like, yes, here's my patch, here's my dirty glue on my waist.

I know someone needs to be figure that out. So it doesn't look like you've got.

All these, like, I think that is. I just look, I'm like, do I not bathe properly? Like, why does it always look so dirty at the end of the three and a half days? But anyway, so, yeah, that is something. I don't know. To be continued. Maybe we have a product in the works that will you and I will brainstorm up. So with regard to food, I mean, I, I think intermittent fasting worked for me because I worked a night. I worked until midnight every night. And so I didn't, you know, I ate my dinner at like 8 o' clock at my very latest, and I didn't get up until a little bit later. So that, that kind of three more worked for me. So I've kept that going. I've upped my protein. It's been very hard, I'll be honest. Like, it's not so easy for me to do. I'm learning.

Why is that?

Well, I came from the 80s, and in the 80s you restricted your calories and protein and fats were bad and you, you know, and Susan, powder range, good, right.

So insanity, remember?

Of course I did. Of course I got all those protein. I started with the Fit for Life diet, if you remember that one. So, you know, yes, until noon. You know, I've done them all. So. But that was hard for me because protein really wasn't a focus of mine. So it's had to have. It had to bend. So that's a big one. So I break my fast with what I call like my hot girl menopause smoothie. I just like dump everything in it. I can think of that I need for this fiber, greens, protein. So that's what I try to do to get that down every day and make sure.

How much are you getting protein wise in your hot.

I try to do 25 grams per meal and it's really hard. It's really hard, but I try and that's, you know, I know that I should even be doing more than that, but that's where I am right now.

Can I. I'll give you a little hack.

Give me a hack. I'll take one. Now.

I don't normally like hacks, but in this situation, this is very important because getting in those, you know, we're eating the protein for the essential amino acids.

Yeah.

And I know that some people find it hard. Personally, I could just. If there was one diet I had to follow for the rest of my life, I would be like, I'd be hand in hand with Sean Baker eating a big ribeye. I've always been that way. I've always been like a.

That's, that's, you know what, at least you know the protein game.

It's always been. And Even in the 80s, you know, hey, 80s, I was in LA, so what I have to do, I had to be a vegan and I had to eat la. Yeah, yeah, I was in LA during the heyday. I was one of the first personal trainers in la. I had to be a vegan. I had to eat like 10 grams of fat because I was working out of the Pritikin center. So I couldn't, I had to take everything to extremes. It was ridiculous. And I was cystic acne, felt like crap, got endometriosis. I mean, everything just tanked. And then I was like, okay, forget that. However, you know, we're eating that protein for those amino acids. One thing you can do is kind of a little cheat, a little hack is you get essential amino acids and I'll. Even if you give me your address, not on after, I will send you mine. And it is what. I literally go to the gym every day with my creatine, my essential amino acids and my electrolytes. But it is how you know that you get them so you're not grabbing them from your muscles.

Okay. I love that.

There you Go. That's a little hack. Okay, so you're eating your protein. How has your workout shifted over the years?

Yeah, well, you know, again, I was on the treadmill every day for hours. Like, okay, I had a stick of gum for 5 calories and burned off. You know, it was ridiculous. And it makes me sad because a lot of wasted time, a lot of wasted mental energy, and, you know, and I tackled an eating disorder in my early 20s. I was on television and, you know. You know, you know, so that has changed quite a bit. And I do a lot of yoga, a lot of Pilates, and I love strength training, and I've always loved strength training, which is good, but I always thought that that was an afterthought versus more important. So now I've switched how I do those two things, which is really nice. I enjoy that. Love walking, and I walk with weight weights, so that's fun. Let's see. Sleep has gotten much better. I was one of the people that used to brag about I could. I got four hours on. I'm doing great. And I've learned to, like, not think of that as a luxury. And I try, you know, meditation. I try, but that's, you know, I'm. I'm at 100 miles an hour all the time. So I do try to just take those moments and walk outside when I need to breathe a little bit.

Yeah. One of the things that I did with our mutual friend Teresa, I've been to a bunch of Dr. Joe Dispenza retreats, and it happened during the pandemic. I was like, what else am I going to do? And so that's what I had to do, is, like, literally, like, stick myself somewhere for seven days.

Immerse yourself somewhere. Right. I think that's what it takes for sure, though. I did go to iin, which is an integrative nutrition school in New York. And it's funny. I did this in Bryant park just last week, this big outdoor yoga class in the middle of New York City, and It's probably like 500 plus people. And Deepak did the meditation for the beginning of it, and I was like, it was 20 minutes. And I went, I'm never gonna be able to sit still. I'm going to be jumping out of my skin. And it wound up. I sat there and I was like, oh, my gosh, did I meditate for 20 minutes today? So that was kind of cool. In the middle of New York while traffic's going everywhere and just kind of.

It's the Deepak effect.

I Mean Deepak, if I can't do it with him, who can? I have no hope.

So anything like what else Major, have you either let go of, you know, since kind of getting into all of this stuff, changing your schedule, like what have you just gone. This was ridiculous thinking just like the cardio, the cardio to eat behavior that we all used to have.

Yeah. I think that a couple of things. It's funny, there's two things in particular. One's probably like a longer story but I spent a lot, a long time in my life. This has nothing to do with really leaving work, but just maybe growing up a little bit of like what did I do wrong? Why is that person, is that person mad at me? Is it my fault? Is it my fault? So I've really tried to let that go. I did it for a long time and then I was like, someday I won't be that way because I'll be a grown up and older and I won't take things so personally. So that's one of those things. And I think the other one is that spending that time with family, you know, I was always working my butt off, missed a lot of holidays, you know, went through a nasty divorce, spent a lot of time single. I got remarried at 50 years old. So that was like a whole new, you know, stage of life. But I think I realized like this is the someday that I'm living right now and I'm not going to get another one. And like days are going by and it's not forever. So I've spent a lot of time with my, my 84 year old dad this year I took him to Spain, brought him to California. Like I've really tried to work hard when I'm working hard, but be in those moments when, when I'm in those moments because I feel like they're very fleeting right now and I'm a little afraid of that. So I'm really trying to. My quote is like, this is, you know, like you're living your someday today. So I keep trying to think about that. Today is my. The Subaru Share the Love event is on from November 20th to January 2nd. During this event, Subaru donates to charities like Meals on Wheels and so far has supported the delivery of nearly 5 million meals to our aging nation neighbors. When you purchase or lease a new vehicle during the 2025 Subaru Share the Love event, Subaru and its retailers will make a minimum $300 donation to charity. Visit subaru.comshare to learn more someday.

Well, so now you're living your someday, you've made a massive shift in your career. You gave up what, like you gave up 30 years. You've shifted off of that. What made you decide, Decide to stop that?

Yeah, that was, it was a long decision. It wasn't like an overnight, like whimsical tamsin decision, which sometimes I make those. This one took a lot of soul searching. It was a couple of things. I really got immersed in this space of understanding women and longevity and this story and understanding the need for sharing this message. That was one, and then two. I think it was a little bit of all that we're talking about. Is this like living your some day today? You know, I was working four newscasts a day, five days a week, from 1 o' clock until 11 o', clock, 11:30 every night by the time I got home. I'd recently gotten married. I was able to take, you know, a certain amount of weeks off every year. And I wasn't able to do some of the things I really wanted to do day to day, which was this. Have these conversations and these conversations, I feel like, really feed me. And so I figured that if there was no other time to do it than now. And so I spent some time preparing and then finally took the leap. And it was scary as hell, you know, it really was. I know what I knew how to do for a very long time. Go into work, tell my stories, anchor the news, go out and report on things. But I didn't know how to do what I'm doing now, which is every day is very different and sometimes I have to learn more about what I'm talking about. And I'm learning new things every day. So it's scary and exciting all at the same time.

And there's another piece to it. It's personal.

Yeah, it's really personal. It's those other stories, as big as some of them were, and some of them were, would include the city of New York or the city of Tampa or wherever, you know, where I was, I was living at the time. But this one's really personal. And it's not just personal to me, but personal to the women that are coming up behind us and my friends and family and women that are going through divorce right now as a result of, like, feeling out of sorts or just, you know, learning who they are now versus who they were 20 years ago. So I, I see a lot of myself in each one of these stories, you know, and I, I think that that's what drove me, drove me to do a. The film which took like, two and a half to three years to do. And, you know, in news, you know, you find a story in the morning and it's on the air by the evening. So for me to have that amount of patience was unbelievable. But it's really incredible to hear the stories. I'm sure you are approached 10 times more by women that have been helped by this or at least see themselves in some of the work. And so that makes a big, huge difference to me.

Tell us about this, the Document. I didn't realize you spent two and a half, three years on the Document documentary. They take long. I did one, and I was like, oh, my gosh.

A year later, I had no idea.

Yeah, you have no idea. It's good. You don't. It's good, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. I had no idea. I was like, we're gonna do a film.

This will be great. It'll be fun.

It'll be fun. And it's funny. One of the first times I. My partner is a woman who was an executive producer at the Today show, Joanne LaMarca. And she and I got together because another friend of ours said, you two just keep talking about menopause all the time, and I'm so tired of hearing about it. Why don't you guys talk to each other? And that's literally how we met. And we were really.

That's hilarious.

That is the first. That's how we met. And we were on the phone the first time, like, an hour and a half. And by the end of the call, I'm like, and here's my patch and here's my vaginal estrogen. You know, it was unbelievable. So anyway, that's how we started. And we started toward the end of the pandemic, when we went up to Times Square and we got masks that said, like, something like, I'm in menopause, like, in this pink mask. And we were asking people questions. We're like, can we talk to you about? Do you know what? Menopause. You know, we were so. Like, we had no idea. But anyway, so we went out there. But what we realized in doing that was like, a lot of people were very confused and had a lot of the same questions and didn't know. They just didn't know what they didn't know. So fast forward, we started to talk to some. Some doctors in the space. Dr. Sharon Malone, Dr. Lisa Moscone, neuroscientist. You know, we. We started saying, like, hey, would you talk to us about, you know, what we don't know? And then we Wound up partnering with two very experienced filmmakers and documentarians over on the. On the West Coast, Denise Pines and Kobe Atlas. And it turns out Kobe, Kobe and Joanne had worked together years ago. And then we got word that it was going to be on PBS. And so October 17th, it finally comes out. We wound up talking to a lot of real women, other doctors. We talked about workplace. We really expanded a lot of the conversation because we didn't know what we were going to be talking about two and a half to three years ago. And a lot's changed and we had to update some different things, too. But, yeah, it's been really incredible. And the response we've had has just been. I'm just kind of blown away by it.

We'll put in the notes how people can watch it. So what are like three big highlights from the documentary?

Yeah, I think the first one would be understanding sex and testosterone. That's one of the big ones that we talked about.

What is up with the fact, like, it is just unbelievable to me that the top hormone of sex hormone we have is not covered by insurance.

Not covered by insurance and not made for us.

It's just crazy.

It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And one of the people that really is at the forefront of that campaign is Dr. Kelly Casperson. So we did talk to her, and we go into real detail about it to understand it. We did talk about WHI in the Women's Health study. And those are, of course, you know, where. Where that was, where we are today, what that resulted in. And then the other big one, I think the takeaway for me was brain with Dr. Lisa Moscone.

She's fantastic.

She's just incredible and done so much research on it. And it really gives you hope that on the other side of things that you really do rebound, you know, in this post, menopausal, you know, after you've gone through some of these really difficult years. So what we wanted in the end was to really feel hopeful, too. Not like these are all the things that are going to be awful and then we don't have any other answers. You know, we wanted to make sure that it felt. It felt hopeful. And I think that that was one of the big things that came out of it for me anyway. And, yeah, so it's, you know, we talk to a lot of real women going through real issues, whether it's sex, whether it's, you know, we Talked to Audra McDonald, one of a big Broadway celebrity, because she had shared a real raw post on Instagram, a Few years ago, talking about how it just kind of hit her, and she had no idea where it came from. So there were. There were some surprises, though, to me. And I learned along the way. Dental was one of the big surprises. I had no idea. And I'd been having teeth problems, you know, like, I had to have a root canal. I'm like, I used to have great teeth. What happened? So I realized menopause happened, and you're in la.

You're around the best functional dentist on the planet near you.

Well, who do I have here? Because I need a whole list.

Dr. Sanda Moldovan's near you, and she is amazing. The interesting thing here, and what I'm really hoping this documentary gets out because we talked a little bit about people not. Not even recognizing the symptoms. I think we're so easily saying, oh, it's stress, you know, oh, it's right. And not recognizing it for what it is. And I was just. I was so fortunate that all my friends were hormone docs. So the minute things started to go sideways with me, I was. I was on hormones from the beginning.

That's great. Did you meet starting in perimenopause?

Yes. Oh, yes. Yes. The minute things dropped, I was on hormones. I never wasn't. And I can tell anyone listening, like, you actually don't have to suffer.

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. And I think that that's the misconception, and that's really why we wanted to do this, because everybody should be able to have this information, you know, And I think that that's also why we're sharing. We want the documentary to be shared in communities, you know, so if somebody said, like, I didn't catch it, or I want to go sit and watch it with 10 of my girlfriends, or I want to, you know, you know, show it to somebody. And it was. It's really important for us to people to have that. And we wanted to educate, too. You know, we want them to understand that it's not them. And I think that that's part of the problem. We have that blame of, like, you know, is it just me? Am I not. Am I not just toughing it out enough? You know, maybe I just get through this, it'll be okay. And even, you know, I have a lot of friends that still are. They're like, oh, no, I breezed through it. And now on the other side of it, they're having some problems, you know, and so didn't breeze through it. You know, you just. You. You dealt with a lot of it, maybe you had a higher tolerance for a lot of different things. But so it's important to really share that. And I agree with you.

Well, and even if they did breeze through that part of it, the other side of it, with issues with bone mineral density and cognition and cardiovascular, you have to make informed decisions. Right? So that's a big one. Now you are double crazy because not only did you do a documentary, you.

Also wrote a book, Double Crazy. Yes, I did. I didn't think it was all gonna happen at the same time, but it wound up. But yes, these are like years in the making. I mean, you know how this is. They're like years in the making. But the book is gonna is out for pre order now called how to Menopause. And it's funny, I struggle with that title for a long time.

I love the title. It's so cool.

I'm so happy to hear that. You have no idea, you know what it's like.

Oh, yes, I do.

And you're like, completely insecure about what you've done and you're now gonna release it to the world and you're like, hoping it's accepted. So I didn't know what to call this book. So I was like, coming in hot. Is it like when life gives you hot flashes? But I didn't know what it was. I was trying to be, you know, but I didn't want it to be a haha. You know, that was the. That was what was really important to me. I wanted it to bridge the gap between, you know, conversations. And some are funny and some are humorous but serious. Because there's a lot of serious topics we're covering. And I don't think that menopause is ends in the doctor's office. And that was what was really important for me. So I was like, well, I wanted it to be kind of like the what to expect of now. And I said, well, now women, we just want to know what to do. Like how to do this, what's the how to? And I went, oh, how to menopause. And somebody said, you're using it as a verb. And I go, yeah, I know, it's okay. And so I was like, I'm a medical license. So. So anyway, yeah, I'm excited about it. We have a lot of different experts in the book hitting on these topics, but also going into things like mindset and going into relationships and divorce during this time and workplace career. And it was really dating during menopause and perimenopause. All those things are really important for Me to really hit on. So for me, it was important to have a kind of a expert driven girlfriend, girlfriend vetted guide to it so we could have conversations and have it spark conversations.

So what do you think about this time of life for a woman post menopausal? Like, is this because you see the memes out there? You know, then I look at Dolly Parton personally.

Me too.

Dolly's my North Star.

All of us, all of us lucky enough to have grown up watching her.

I'm like Dolly in a Dallas cheerleaders outfit at 70, what, 75. She's my North Star. That's it.

I know, I know.

So, you know, what would you say to someone at this point? What is your thought process for a woman in their 60s, 70s, 80s?

Yeah, you know, I always kind of look at commercials sometimes. And I look and I'm like, if I see a woman that I know is probably 55 sitting on a bench slowly petting a cat or, you know, sitting there in the park, walking through there looking at leaves, I'm going to go crazy. Because that's not who these women are nowadays. You know, I mean, they're just pretty fabulous. And so I would say that any narrative that we were all given and grew up with, I think, you know, we are quickly dispelling those. And to not take yourself out of the running for anything that you might want to try. Look, there's certain things that I know I'm not going to do, you know, I. But there's also so many more things that I know I am going to do. And so I feel excited about that. And I don't. I think in my mind I always thought like, oh, 65 is kind of the limit where it starts to slow down and end. Now I'm like 85. I'm looking at my father, he's 85. He's cooking in the kitchen every day. He's got a social group of people he doesn't even know he's 85. And so that's, I think, what I tried to do for myself and try to say to other people, like, so stop with the number and moving forward, but you gotta take care of yourself. Because without that, that wasn't what we focused on for a very long time. And I think you've gotta put that first. That can't be a luxury anymore. It can't be a luxury that you're gonna take care of yourself. It has to be mandatory.

Absolutely. Yeah. Self care is not a little thing.

It's not a side project.

It's Not Friday. Going to the manicurist.

I got my 20 minutes. No, it's not. It's not. It's not. It's not just a. You know, you have got to figure out a way to do that, no matter what that is. Even if it's five minutes. Close the door in a room. Like, I just think it's so important. And I. You know, I always think back to my mom, because my mom got sick at a very, very young age. And I know now if it were, you know, she were here today, I think her outcome would have been very, very different. Um, and so I do think that I've thought about it probably more than the most people have watching, you know, watching your mother be sick at such a young age. But I'm hopeful that, you know, another young girl that was like me that, you know, has a mom, can, you know, see her, you know, become healthy on the other side of things or get through something better. But it has to. It has to start with, like, taking care of yourself. It really does. And being aware of, you know, the misinformation out there, because that worries me as a journalist and just as a woman.

Well, you're definitely doing your part, making the dent and literally starting a. I mean, this is basically. Even though it's using all your skills, it's a new career.

It is. It's like. I don't know even know what to call it. Thank you. I don't even know what to call it. It is. It's very different. Every day is different. But I know I pop out of bed every day, and I wasn't doing that for a while. You know, I always loved my job, but I wasn't popping out of bed every day. And I. I am now. And that kind of tells me, you know, that's. Tells me I'm in the right direction.

You're on the right path.

I'm on the right path. And it wouldn't be meeting amazing people like you if I weren't on this path. So I always. I'm very grateful for that, even though.

We probably met somewhere along the line, but we are both so stressed out and busy, very busy that we couldn't do anything about.

We're so busy trying to get to the treadmill. Yeah, that's what I. I'm sure we have at some point, and if not, I'm grateful we have now.

Yes. Yes. Well, I'm definitely gonna get into the show Notes. We'll put everything@jjvirgin.com Tamsen where did that name Come from, by the way.

Isn't that funny? My mom found that name in a book and I never found the name of the book out because no one had ever asked me that when I was young. I was like, I don't know.

I'm sure ChatGPT knows.

I know it probably does. It says it's the feminine version of Thompson, which means twin, but I'm not a twin, so I think my mom just liked different names. She was an avid reader. She loved to read fiction and. And so I'm assuming that's what, you know, that's what it's from. But yeah, Tamson is first name and Fidel last name. So I had no hope.

Very much fits you too.

Oh, thank you.

So it's jjvirgin.com Tamsen T A M S E N. You have super fun Instagram. So definitely link to that. It's very fun.

Well, we'd have to have you on it. Let's just.

Your antics are great. I would love to do that, let's say.

Yeah, that would be really fun.

Are you in LA now?

Where are you right now? I'm in la. I'll be back in New York next week, but I go back and forth.

Okay.

Yep.

Okay, Easy enough. So you've got great Instagram. We'll link so that people can pre order the book links so that people can get with their friends and watch the documentary and then see what else you come up with in your new career path. Isn't it fun that you can be more excited about your career and everything you're doing now in your 50s? Like, come on. Right.

Unbelievable. Yeah. I never thought that. I'll tell you. I always hoped in my 30s, I'm like, I hope they're gonna still want me. That was what I thought all the time. I hope they're still gonna want me. And so when I left, I was like, wow, I can't believe I did that, you know? So every once in a while I pinch myself, like, did you really do that? Because I was always so fearful, you know, of getting older.

Well, I think of I was. I used to do the Hallmark Channel. Had a show, Home and Family.

Sure.

And I loved Christina Ferraro. Ferraro. Anyway, one day she was just gone.

Yeah.

Age now.

You know what I'm talking about. I watch one after another.

Whoa. And then you start to watch people age out and they're just gone. By the way, you know, in your industry, it's like you're just gone another.

Show, then they move to another show. And then they move to another, or then they're not there. And I watched it for a long time, and it was always my fear. And it's interesting, somebody said to me, when I was probably early 30s, she was just being nice. She wasn't being mean in any way. She said, you know, you need to have a backup plan at some point. She was older than me, like 12 years older than me. You need to have a backup plan at some point because, you know, you're eventually going to age out of this job and you're gonna need something else to do. And she said, you never see a older woman sitting next to a younger man, but you always see an older man sitting next to a younger woman. And I was like, she's right. When I left, I was sitting next to a younger man. And so I was always really. I was always really happy about that. And I shared that with her. I was like, I just want you to know, it took 20 years, but, you know, but we can change these things. Yeah, isn't that amazing?

And you're definitely changing those things. Getting this information out is so darn important. I just don't want to see people suffer. And I really do believe that in our 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, I've got friends in their 70s who are killing it in their careers.

Killing it.

Better work than ever. And, you know, so that's. That's really the message out there.

So thank you for doing it. Don't you feel like that. Don't you feel like they feel like they're just kind of doing it? They're not, like, panicked about things.

Right.

Doing it, which is so different. Calm to it.

I always say, if I could have whatever that little flip that switched at 50 could have flipped at 30, it would have been so fabulous. You know.

I was like, why didn't this come sooner? Like, why was I insane? Such a panic all the time about everything. But you don't know what you don't know.

Well, we know it now.

And if you're better late than never.

I know the well beyond 40 people that are in their 40s, the switch will flip. It's going to be fabulous. And you don't have to suffer whatsoever. You can start these things, right? As things start to go sideways, you'll hear all the symptoms. You'll know that you're not going crazy.

Trust yourself.

Yes. And if you go to a doctor and they think you're crazy. Wrong. Doctor Fired. Yes. We have lots of great resources. So again, jjvirgin.com Tamsen T A M S E N and thank you so much. I look forward to meeting you in person somewhere along the line.

Thank you. I really look forward to that.

Be sure to join me next time for more tools, tips and techniques you can incorporate into everyday life to ensure you look, look and feel great and are built to last. Check me out on Instagram, Facebook and my website jjvirgin.com and make sure to follow my podcast@subscribetojay.com so you don't miss a single episode. And hey, if you're loving what you hear, don't forget to leave a review. Your reviews make a big difference in helping me reach more incredible women just like you to spread the word about aging powerfully after 40. Thanks for tuning in and I'll catch you on the next episode. Hey JJ here. And just a reminder that the well Beyond 40 podcast offers health, wellness, fitness and nutritional information that's designed for educational and entertainment purposes only. You should not rely on this information as a substitute for, nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your health, you should always consult with a physician or other healthcare professional. Make sure that you do not disregard, avoid or delay obtaining medical or health related advice from your healthcare professional because of something you may have heard on the show or read in our show notes. The use of any information provided on the show is solely at your own risk. So you want to start a business? You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills, but you don't. You just need GoDaddy arrow. I'm Walton Goggins and as an actor, I'm an expert in looking like I know what I'm doing. GoDaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo, it'll create a custom website, it'll write social posts for you, and even set you up with a social media calendar. Get started@godaddy.com Arrow that's godaddy.com A I.

R A hello listeners, this is Anne Bogle, author, blogger, and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week I tag all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately, and I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years, and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And, of course, recommending books that meet the moment. Whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything. You'll learn something about yourself as a reader, and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and Visit our website, whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com to find out more.