Unlocking the Benefits of Meditation With Mary Meckley

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So during the pandemic, I decided I was finally going to commit to meditation. And I went to a meditation retreat of Dr. Joe Dispenza. Realized after the first week that I really was gonna have to work hard at this. And I just decided it was like going to the gym. And I committed to it and I was consistent. The second meditation retreat I was like, well, I made some progress, but I still need to work more on this. And since then it's been 18 months where I've 90%. I rarely miss a day, do some meditation every single day. The result over time has been honestly profound. Found so much so that I now know that in order to be truly healthy, you really have to train your nervous system just like you train your musculoskeletal system. And so I think of the triad of nutrition, exercise and mindfulness and really I would put sleep recovery restoration all in there. And so good news, you're probably sleeping. Add this one into the mix to really accelerate your results. So I was reading the news here in Tampa. Even though I try not to read the news. But I was reading the good news.

And the good news was about this.

Gal in our area who has a daily meditation podcast which had been downloaded over a hundred million times and a meditation app called Sip and Om. And I'm like, who is this woman? And she's a neighbor, no less. And then crazy enough because of course, this is how it all happens. Once I read about that, I'm like, I gotta meet this woman. And then I was doing a podcast with the buddy JV Crum, and he goes, oh, you have to meet my friend who lives in Sarasota and her name is Mary Meckley. And I'm like, of course. And so I have the great pleasure of having Mary Meckley on the show. And what I love the most about this episode is you're going to just learn how to start to bring this into your life, no matter how busy you are. If you're saying, I don't have time, I'm too stressed, et cetera, you're going to learn why you want to put this in life, but how easily to put it into your life. And then also, we've made it so easy for you to do something with this because Mary is giving you a seven day free trial to her Sip and Om meditation app. You're going to learn why she calls it Sip and Om in a moment and you will be able to get that and a link to her podcast@jjvirgin.com sip I will be right back with Mary. Stay with me.

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Mary, I am so excited to dig into mindfulness with you and I love that it's all an alliteration. Mary Meckley, Mindfulness meditation. How did you plan that?

It just fell into place.

I would love to dig in. We're going to go deep into meditation. If anyone's still hanging on by their fingernails saying, no, I just don't want to deal with my stress. We got you today in this episode. But what I'd love to start with is how you got into all of this because, boy, you've really launched a movement here.

Oh, thank you. Sure. It started with a cup of tea. I like to say how that happened is I worked for a corporation in Tokyo, Japan. I lived there for five years and I was the only female and the only foreigner in this big company. And when was that? It was in 1996.

Ah, okay. I was there 10 years before you, so I know what you speak of being the only foreigner in a male run company.

Yeah, it was really a great experience. And I was teaching intercultural communication because I worked with the traveling section and there are 200 employees in the section where I worked. And a couple times a day there were tea ladies. These were ladies who didn't work right in the office, but they would come in the office at different times of the day and serve us tea. And I remember at the time thinking, I'm not gonna stop and have tea. I'm going to keep working. And I thought I was just so much more productive and doing the right thing. And I couldn't believe they were sitting there having tea. I noticed that they would emerge so much more refreshed from these tea breaks and they would simply reflect nobody was talking while they were having tea. People were quiet and they were very quietly sipping their tea. And so I decided, maybe I'll have some tea. And I, at that time, didn't really even drink green tea. And I sat down and I started to take my own tea breaks. And it was the first experience, which sounds a little bit odd, but if you live in the West, I'm sure you can completely relate to this. But I really didn't know how to give myself a sense of stillness. I thought sitting down was being still, but that wasn't being still. When I was sitting there, no one else was talking. 200 people in a big office while they were sipping their tea. It just didn't lend to any conversation. And so I started to tune into this stillness and feel really refreshed. And so I started to study a lot of the arts in Japan, such as ikebana, the artist, flower arranging, which is not really about flowers. It's more very Zen. Like, it's very meditative. And also the tea ceremony. And then we left Japan and I landed in Seattle, Washington, and I also lived in Portland, Oregon, and both of those cities at that time 20 years ago. Meditation and yoga was very mainstream even at that time. And so I missed my inner stillness breaks from Japan. So I started to go a little deeper and I explored meditation. But it started with a cup of tea.

Now I finally get it. I was like, what's with the sip and om meditation? Yeah, that is so fantastic. Okay, so you started that and then you've kept it going and obviously transitioned out of the other things you were doing and just taking this full on. And so you've helped a lot of people become meditators, I would assume at this point, since you have like 2 million people on your app. Right. Like just some crazy number.

I've been fortunate with my podcast. I do it every day and it has over a hundred million downloads. And so I just felt so grateful to help other people experience stillness. And it's only a 10 minute experience. And so that's really about the time of the tea break that I had. It was just enough to kind of get into that stillness mode. You really can become still and reflective with five or ten minutes.

This is great news for someone who's not doing anything at the moment, because I'm sure it's just like exercise. I don't have time. So as you're helping shift these people into a mindfulness practice, where do you see the challenges for them?

Mine and a wandering mind. Those are the two biggest challenges. But surprisingly, and this is more important than most people realize, it's comfort. It's important to be somewhere. Although you can really meditate anywhere where you're not likely to be distracted, make sure that your body is nice and relaxed, because this will allow your mind to relax, and that is really the key. So when your body is relaxed, your mind can relax also. It doesn't take a lot of time, and people realize this, but I do recommend going into it at your own pace. For example, if you're starting off, just sit down and get used to feeling comfortable. Try sitting in a chair. Try sitting on the ground. And you don't have to sit on the ground in a yogi position.

I can't do that.

Most people don't do that. Many people sit in a chair. Just make sure that you're firmly grounded, your feet are firmly grounded. And I really encourage sitting on a cushion, a pillow from your sofa, or even from your bed or a meditation cushion, and sit on the end of it because it rolls your hips forward. And this helps to keep your spine aligned, which is really important as you meditate. So anytime throughout the day, you can do these meditation techniques. You really don't even have to be seated. There are so many techniques that you can do to instantly calm your mind and body. And these are actually techniques that have been studied to do this. And there's over 5,000 years of research showing that a lot of these techniques stimulate different neural pathways within our nervous system. That stimulates the brain to help you relax, to help you focus, to help you calm your mind and body.

Yeah, it's just too bad we couldn't have something on our watch. I'm sure it's coming. That would almost be like a little alarm thing that would say, time to take five to ten, missy, and calm it down. Like some nervous system tracker that goes, you are about to yell at someone. I really regret it.

It's funny you say that, because one thing you begin to notice, meditation is very similar to fitness because what it does, it trains your mind. And you begin to notice, ooh, I need to breathe, or, oh, I need to stretch, or, oh, I just need to close my eyes. Another little tip is if you gently elevate your eyes upwards when they're closed, or even if they're open and you gently elevate them upwards, that instantly shifts your thoughts upward. And so these little tweaks that you can do throughout your day become ingrained into your day. And it's just like with fitness. You start off maybe walking around the block. And then you think, maybe I need some new tennis shoes. Or I didn't feel so comfortable when I was wearing. I really didn't like where I walked. So that's with meditation. You sit down and you think, oh, I don't know, this doesn't feel good. Or I feel better when I'm seated on my bed, or I want to be wearing something really comfortable or casual, or I feel better when I'm outside meditating, you'll notice these things. So you just start to get into your meditation groove, just like you do with a fitness group. And then pretty soon as you sit longer, just as when you exercise more, you adapt to it. And then if you don't exercise, you feel like, oh, I really need to get out there and exercise today. I really need some fitness. You feel it, you start to crave it. You think you'll never get to that point, but you do.

You know, I love that you liken this to the gym, because when I started meditating, and I want to talk a little bit about, like, how you know if you're doing it right, because of course, any overachiever type A is going to be like, it's not like going to the gym where you go, I lifted heavier weights today. Maybe you could see it through hrv. I don't know. But what I just decided, when I did it for the first week at a meditation retreat and really sucked, I thought, you know what? I would not go to a gym for one week and expect to have these amazing results. In fact, the first couple weeks of doing resistance training, you're actually training your nervous system. That's the biggest shift is neurological, actually, not the physiological changes in your muscle. Because the challenge I see is like, you can step on a body composition scale. You can see what's going on with your skeletal muscle. You can go to the gym, you can know that you're lifting heavier weights. You can see the changes. How do you know with meditation if you're doing it right?

Actually, there is a right and wrong way to meditate, many experts say. And you experience this yourself when you begin to meditate, you know that you're making progress when you, you feel it. Meditation is an inward ritual. So when you exercise, you see it. You see it outwardly with your muscles. You also feel it within yourself that there are many other benefits. But with meditation, you're still going to be stressed because it's not as though because you meditate all of a sudden, oh, you don't have stress. You don't lose Your temper, you don't get upset if somebody cuts in front of you while you're driving. All these things will still happen in your life. But what happens is the prefrontal part of your brain is strengthened. And this has been shown through research, a lot of research, especially on mindfulness meditation, which is more focusing on the present moment. And this part of your brain is strengthened. So when you have these stress triggers, you are able to manage the stress much better. Just like if you have a regular fitness routine and you want to step it up, you're able to do that because you train for it, you prepare yourself for it. So you're still going to maybe even have an injury, or maybe you'll have a hard day where you're just tired, you're not feeling well, but you still do it. And you're building these muscles when you do fitness, and you're building your mental fitness when you meditate. So I think that movement and mindfulness go hand in hand. I really can't see living without those hand in hand because they create such a beautiful lifestyle where you're able to calm your mind and body. And one thing I want to mention is that meditation is in no way passive. So when you sit down to meditate, you're not zoning out. And this is another way to know that you're making progress. When you sit down to meditate, you're tuning in, you're checking to see how you're doing. Just like you do when you exercise. You might be lifting or going for a run or whatever you might be doing. And you notice I'm a little tight here. And so you adjust, you shift, or I'm going to do a fewer reps, so I'm going to do more reps today. So that's what you do when you meditate. You feel it and you become very attuned to your mind and your body. And so when you are going throughout your day, you think, oh, yeah, I can really tell my meditation ritual is helping me because my boss who just yelled at me, it upset me. But I'm able to balance. And many people think, oh, you can never achieve balance. But we're constantly in balance. That's what we do in life. We constantly shift and attune ourselves to the present moment. So it's just how you do it. And when you meditate, you're able to do this in a way where you recover faster and you just begin to feel more confident. In fact, confidence is one of the biggest benefits that people notice when they start meditating. They often say they didn't realize that they would feel more confident. But you do feel more confident when you don't feel so out there, you feel more in there, you feel more gathered.

One funny thing that I don't think I've mentioned to you when we spoke last was I started meditating. And one of my mentors in the Mindshare Mastermind told me, she goes, you know, we've been tracking you for the last 18 months. What we see is that over the last 18 months, we see this shift in you since you started meditating, and we just all want to tell you to keep it going. What I do notice is I'm not reactive like I used to be. Like, the things that used to, you know, get me a little, you know, I just, like, I know how to breathe through them, stay calm. So it is quite amazing how it can train you. And I do think that the way to think of it is really you're taking your nervous system to the gym. And one of the things I was listening to Andrew Huberman's podcast and, and he said something that I've noticed is that as you get better at it, you can get back into that state very quickly.

It's true. It is our natural state. We just come back to it when we're frazzled, when we're really pinging, or our emotions are very elevated upward or downward. That's not really our natural state. When we come back to centering ourselves, we reach an equilibrium, and that is our true state. That's when we're able to share the best of who we are, our best qualities.

So someone starting out. And again, just thinking back to the fitness thing, time is always going to be this big thing. And I remember when I started, I go, oh, my gosh, how the heck am I going to add another thing into my life? And what I realized is as I added this in, I became so much more productive. Like, I could solve things in meditation in a minute. That would have taken me, like, a day to kind of muddle through. So someone looking at this, how would you recommend integrating meditation into their life?

So this is really important. I think it's important to meditate for just a little when you first start, and I mentioned before, but I forgot to finish, what I wanted to share about the times when it's not really recommended to meditate. If you're feeling really ill, perhaps maybe you're physically sick or you're really in a lot of emotional pain, that's not really a good time to meditate. You can sit down and just allow the dust to settle. But when you meditate, it's really important to get yourself in a state. So I recommend when you meditate to maybe do a few stretches, listen to some music. It's almost as if you're easing yourself into sleep. You wouldn't be scrambling. Well, I mean, we all do sometimes, and then jump into bed and boom, you're asleep. It's a process where you unwind. On my podcast and how I share meditation is I always share some insight. We have a theme every week, and I share insight about the theme because as you're listening to anyone talk or you could listen to music or anything soothing, it allows you to transition from whatever it was you were doing out there in the world. With your day, with your relationships, with any activity, you begin to transition back to a state where you feel still and ready to be more receptive. And so I recommend just getting a little meditation mode where you listen to something, maybe you light a candle and you relax. Yoga was actually designed for meditation. It was a way to unleash all that nervousness in your body and relieve all the tension so that when you sit down, your body is nice and open and receptive so that your mind can also be that way.

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Yeah. And children too. Before they go to bed, if you take them to a park and let em run around, they come back, they're ready to go to sleep or they.

Have a total meltdown.

It's so true. Yeah. So go at your own pace. And when you sit down, just get used to feeling still. You might do that for a full week. And don't really pay attention to how long you're meditating. Just notice how you're feeling and you might not be able to focus at all for a while or even if you've been meditating for quite a while, and then you are suddenly having this dry spell where you're not able to focus. Just know that it's the same. I really think it's a Great analogy with fitness, because you experience that too with fitness. And I think that's the part that's when we're really building the muscle, is when we're able to break through those thresholds. And you'll notice that your mind is the same way.

That makes a ton of sense. So I'm thinking of all the questions I get asked in fitness, because they are all the same applicable ones. And one of them is like, is there a best time to do this?

The best time is any type you. You can. You want to meditate. I remember when my children were younger and I just learned to meditate at that point, and I just didn't have a lot of time to meditate where I would not be interrupted. So I often would sit in the car during their soccer practice or their. Whatever practice they were. They were very involved in all these different activities. And I would sit for 10 minutes and close my eyes and just relax and meditate. And then I'd get out and go watch their practice. But that was my only quiet time at that time. I think that in the morning when you start your day, that is actually considered to be the best time. Again, anytime is the best time. But in the morning, as you start your day, it helps you to be able to focus better because all the distractions of the day haven't quite hit you yet. And you could meditate when you go to bed as well. Those are the best times officially to meditate, where you notice that you're least distracted and you're more open and receptive. I find that sometimes in the middle of the day, I just need to meditate. But I work from my home, so I'm able to be somewhere where I can meditate. I also go through seasons where I will meditate in the evening exclusively. And I think, how was I even meditating in the morning? And then all of a sudden, I'm not able to really meditate before I go to bed for whatever reason. You'll notice that you are your meditation. And just as you go through seasons in your life, your meditation ritual will mirror that. So just go with and honor yourself, honor where you are, and tune into your emotions. So when you do sit down to meditate and you begin to get used to feeling stillness, this is also what I recommend that you do. There are many techniques, but if you do this every time, you're sure to feel better. Notice how you feel and notice where you feel that in your body and see if you can name that emotion and notice what triggered that emotion. So then you begin to work with yourself a little bit. And if you can breathe in and let's say you've had a really tense day, think about where you're holding that in your body. And as you inhale and exhale, just naturally through your nose, gently, at your own pace, not forcing your breath in any way, see if you can create a little expansion in the areas where you're feeling tense in your body. Just doing that and naming your emotion and then allowing yourself to sit in stillness and then resume your day. Just doing that can create such an awareness as to how you're responding to your environment and allow you to shift and notice how you're feeling. And that's what meditation is really all about. It's about tuning into how you're doing, drawing out the best of who you are, adapting to different stressors that you may not have any control over, but still being able to manage your emotions. And if you can do that, you feel happier, you feel more confident. And that is really the beautiful gift of meditation.

It's funny, I've been messing around with my morning and evening routines and I made a list of the things that I like to do in the morning. I had more time in the morning to get stuff done. In the evening. I'm. But it still feels like the big joke out there that we all have is like, you know, you got your sauna and red light and cold plunging and exercise and meditation and breath work. And at some point like you actually have to do life and you have all this self care to do. And I still feel like it's out there that this is also indulgent and, you know, selfish. And yet what you're explaining to me is so selfless because you're just going to be better at life if you're doing all of these things. But how do you start to help someone integrate this in and see it as essential rather than indulgent?

That is a really important question and a really important point because some people use meditation as just another technique when really meditation, like fitness, like eating well, those are foundational. You think of those as a meal. And so this can be your protein, your carbs, your whatever you're eating, whatever you happen to be, including in your meal, whatever you need, whatever body type you are, whatever you constitutionally need. And so you might incorporate cold showers or sauna. I do that because it strengthens the vasovagal nerve that's going to help you manage stress better. One of the main nerves in your entire body that impacts your nervous system Meditation is sort of like a house and everything else that you add to it are little, not decorations, but rooms in the house. And you might change the rooms around, you might use this room for this and then maybe change its function later on. So you can incorporate breath, work, walking in nature. All these things are very valuable. It's not as though you switch them out. But I think that and research shows that meditation, fitness and diet are such a powerful trio to impact your entire life. So I think that your life makes so much more sense when you have this all important trio of fitness, some kind of movement, meditation, and then of course your diet, which you're eating.

It totally is the trifecta. And I was really good at the Other2 for 40 years. That was my entire life. And then I finally, like kicking and screaming started meditation, had a couple false starts. And I think the challenge again was like, how do I know if I'm doing this right? I'm doing it wrong. I don't get it. I can't stop thinking. And you know, and then you forget it and, you know, this all or nothing thing. And then it was like, listen, just show up. I went, okay. And what I noticed as I started to do it and it took six months, I did not change my exercise, I did not change my diet. I only added this in and I dropped five pounds. I was telling this to Dr. Joe dispense. I'm like, okay, I like, I dropped five pounds. He said, it's the nothing diet. Because you know how he says, become no one, nowhere, no thing. I'm like, that's very funny. But I think for so many of us, this is that element that is missing. And now more than ever, because your body's not just a bank account or a chemistry lab, it's also a history book. And if you've gotten stressed and you have not resolved that or you haven't handled it, it's sitting in there messing up things. And again, since your, your history book will then affect your chemistry lab if you've got stress hormones. I don't know how to help someone build muscle and be hormonally balanced, any of that stuff if they've got massive stress on board. So the light has been shined on stress over the last couple years. I think there were several positives of the pandemic. One is now people are actually paying attention to stress, mental health, all of that. But if someone is listening to this going, I'm too stressed to meditate. Are there some techniques?

Techniques are really important to meditation and like I said, meditation is not zoning out. You're actively dynamic. You're engaged. It's not emptiness, it's everythingness. So as you go throughout your day, when you use your breath, that's what research shows is the fastest, most effective way to instantly calm your mind and body. And if you do a simple breathing technique that's easy to remember, you can do it to a count that feels right for you. And this is where you inhale through your nose, hold your breath, and then exhale through your nose. And you do this to the same count to the same number of times. So let's say I recommend you start with the count of four or five. You'd inhale to the count of four. You'd pause, hold your breath to the count of four, and exhale through your nose to the count of four. And then you would do that four times. So if you wanted to do it to a count of five, you would do it five times. And I'll tell you, this is very important because I worked with a group of athletes who were wanting to meditate to help them improve their triathlon performance. They're all very young, very fit, and when I guided them through this breathing technique, one of them fainted, and it shocked me. So now whenever I teach this breathing technique live, and I always mention this when I share any breathing technique on podcast, if you're not used to tuning into your breath, make sure you recline yourself. But the power of your breath is that profound. Your breath is interconnected with your emotional state. And so when you can calm your breath, you can calm your emotional state. And it's like a muscle. It takes practice. Just take care and really notice how you feel when you're inhaling and exhaling. And you can inhale and exhale through your mouth, but that is a more energizing type of breath or cleansing breath. When you first start, I recommend you inhale and exhale through your nose, because that's going to keep your nervous system calm.

I'd love to hear one or two of your favorite stories. Cause I feel like, again, when I had that thing happen, which was a tangible proof that something has shifted, I can also see it in the hrv, of course, tangible proof that something shifted because. Cause again, it's not like you're looking at someone going, wow, you put on some muscle there. Wow, your nervous system's looking amazing. So what are some of the things that you've seen with some of your students?

People who usually start listening to a meditation podcast or an app and really Stick with it are usually people who need the result. Just as if you start meditating or rather start exercising or eating well, if you're embarking on a new program, it's because maybe you have a health challenge or maybe you're really to the point where you need to start paying attention to your health. And so the same is with meditation. And many people are in a relationship breakup or they're very unhappy with their job. I think our finances and our relationships are some of the top stressors. And especially these days where there's a little more uncertainty going on, people are finding that they're having trouble focusing. And so when you engage your breath with that simple 5, 5, 5, 5 times or 3, 3, 3, 3 times, trying to build up your breath, maybe even to the count of 12 eventually over time, meaning maybe practicing it every day for two weeks would get you to the point where you could comfortably do this breath to the. When you do these things, you're still dealing with the stress. It's not as though you suddenly become this calm person. You are able to manage yourself better and recover faster. Weaving these little techniques into your day is very helpful. Another technique that people really enjoy is affirmations. A positive statement you repeat to yourself. But again, it's not mindlessly, it's you're engaged, you are noticing what you're saying, noticing how you feel in your body. That's why I recommend doing that. Every time you sit down to meditate, tune in, how am I feeling today, right now? What caused that? And if you can even ask yourself five why questions, layer the questions. Why am I feeling that way? Oh, it's because my dog was barking at another dog and the neighbor was upset. Why was she so upset about that? Oh, it's because she recently lost a loved one.

Oh.

So you get to the point where you feel a little bit of clarity and you could go deeper with your why. Sometimes you're asking many layers of why. But when you get to a point, when you meditate to where you feel more settled, like okay, I'm feeling this way because. And yeah, that's upsetting. But right now is my time. I'm just going to sit for a moment and breathe and tune in, then you're able to begin to progress and take part in that all important consistency that gives you the results with anything you do, whether it's fitness, whether it's a project you're working on at work or meditation.

Yes. And that's with every single thing in life. Consistency. Success goes to the people who are consistent with the thing. Doing meditation once a month isn't gonna cut it. Or going to the gym once a month or deciding to eat your broccoli once a month or take your vitamins. And I love that you have, like built this massive app. I actually saw an article before we got introduced by a friend. I was reading the local Tampa news and they were talking about you and I'm like, who is this woman with this meditation app who is a neighbor.

Thank you. Yeah. So I have an app. It's called the Sieve and Ohm meditation app. You can try it free for a week.

We will put that, by the way, we'll put that@jjbirgin.com sip we'll make it super easy.

That is great. And then the podcast is free. I have almost 3,000 guided meditations on the app as well as on the podcast. The difference between the podcast and the app is where I share more insight. I always start with insight. Sometimes people will write a message, oh, you're talking too much. And it's because I'm transitioning you. We have a theme because they want to instantly be guided in a meditation. That's great. And on the app I actually give the timestamp where you can scroll to right where the meditation starts. But I think it's really important to transition yourself. So I share some insight about the theme and something that's going to be helpful for you. I share a different technique every day. Sunday it's a visualization. Monday, it's an affirmation. Tuesday, breathing. Wednesday is a mudra. Thursday is a chakra. Friday I always share herbal tea. And Saturday is a walking meditation. So there's so much rich history in the art and science of meditation. It's over 5000 years old. Cultures from all over the world have meditated in some form. So I think it's fun to explore the richness of meditation instead of always being guided. I think it's fun to learn about what you're doing and what's happening and how you can incorporate it into your day. So I do share some insight before you're guided in a meditation. So the app is just short little meditations, or rather the longer 30 minute guided meditations. And the podcast is the short 10 minute meditations.

Cool.

We will link to all of it. We'll put it@jjvirgin.com sip and I will just say a shout out that if you have been dragging your feet on this one, let's take right now and say this is going to become a priority and again, especially since you can start with 10 minutes. The difference that it's made in my life, I never would have believed this. And I'm looking at myself going, I have been told about this for decades and I was like, I just want to throw heavy weights. But it's impacted everything. So I just, I want that for all of us. Now that I know about this, I want everybody to know. So thank you for gifting everyone the week free on the app. We'll put the podcast link too and again, it will all be@jjbirgen.com sip and thank you for being with us. Mary thank you.

It was an honor. It's really an honor to share this.

Be sure to join me next time for more tools, tips and techniques you can incorporate into everyday life to ensure you look and feel great and more importantly, that you're built to last.

And check me out on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube and my website, jjvirgin.com and make.

Sure to follow my podcast so you don't miss a single episode@subscribetoj.com See you next time.

Hello listeners, this is Anne Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast what Should I Read next? Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives. Every week, I take all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read. They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately. And I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next. Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years, and possibly the rest of their lives as well. And of course, recommending books that meet the moment, whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change, or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything. You'll learn something about yourself as a reader and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read, with a whole list of new books and authors to try. So join us each Tuesday for what Should I Read Next? Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and Visit our website, whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com to find out more.