EP 188: AI in the Classroom - Focus on literacy not detection

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Here in the US A new school semester is started, which means also that the conversation is going to start again around generative AI in the classroom. Should it be used? Should it be banned? How should you monitor it? How should you govern it? How can we do this ethically? There's so many questions and it's a never ending discussion and one that I'm personally passionate about, but I'm not the only one. So we're going to be having a discussion today on AI in the classroom and how we should be focusing on literacy and not AI detection. I'm excited for today's show. I hope you are too. So if you're joining us on the live stream, thank you for joining us. Please make sure to get your questions in. As always, if you're joining us on the podcast, thank you for that as well. Your, your support has made us a top 10 tech podcast on Spotify, so we super appreciate that always. I say this every day. Check your show notes. We hide so many more great resources in the show notes. So if you care about AI and education and how it's working and different takes on it, you know, we have a whole section on our website of other podcasts where we've, you know, talked to other experts on their take on AI and education. So if you enjoy this one, make sure to check out your show notes as well. All right, before we get to that, we're gonna do as we do every single day starts with what's going on in the AI news. So if you haven't already, make sure to go to your everydayai.com Sign up for the free daily newsletter. We'll be recapping not just this AI news, but also some depth and detail from our conversation today. So let's start with Sam Altman. Yeah, Sam Altman. So Sam Altman says that OpenAI doesn't need new York Times data in a new interview. So Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI, addressed the new York Times lawsuit against the company for alleged copyright infringement and expressed surprise at the legal action. So Altman spoke at the DeVos at the World Economic Forum forum and he stated that training on the New York Times data is not a priority for OpenAI and that they do not need to use the New York Times data to train their AI models. Altman also in related, I guess unrelated but related for sure news, talked changed his tone A little bit on artificial general intelligence. So in an interview he did say that he no longer believes in a sudden and radical disruption by AGI, but stated that it will be a continuous improvement process and humans will adapt. He had previously kind of written about the potential harm and benefits of AGI, but now has a much more measured outlook. All right, next piece of news that matters is Google DeepMind is again flexing its math skills. A new artificial intelligence system developed by Google DeepMind, which is Google's AI arm. It is called Alpha Geometry and it can solve complex geometry problems at the level comparable to human gold medalist at the International Mathematical Olympiad. I honestly did not know there was a gold medal at the International Mathematic Olympiad. But there is. And Alpha Geometry combines a neural language model and a symbolic deduction engine to solve geometry problems. This new system performed well on challenging problems and can even discover new mathematical theories. Yeah, I had a whole show on that once and it kind of blows your mind to think about how generative AI is, can create new math problems. It's fascinating. All right, our last piece of news is Samsung and Google Cloud made a multi year agreement, made an announcement on their multi year agreement for more AI smartphones. So Samsung has announced their partnership with Google Cloud to integrate generative AI technologies into their latest smartphone series, including the much talked about Samsung Galaxy XS24, which is probably going to be the kind of the most popular and first smartphone to market with that AI Edge or Edge AI on the device. So this partnership aims to enhance the user experience by providing advanced AI features such as text and image editing, real time translations and intelligent search capabilities. Samsung is also exploring the use of Google's Gemini models for more complex tasks and on device language processing, enhancing the efficiency and capabilities of their smartphones. That was a mouthful. Y' all a lot going on as always in AI news. So if you want to know more about those, and we always have so much more, make sure to go to your everyday AI.com Sign up for that free daily newsletter and hey, while you're there it's we literally it's like a free generative AI university. We have more than 180 shows with expert guests taking deep dives into all kinds of topics like we're doing today with our guests. So I'm ready to talk AI in the classroom, right? It is, you know, new semesters, you know, just kicked off either this week or you know, just, just around the corner and this is going to be continue to be a topic if I'm being honest. Y' All I thought we would have already figured this out at the college level, but it's not that easy, right? There's so many complexities and difficulties that educators are having to go through. So with that, I'm excited for today's guest. So please help me welcome as we bring her onto the show. There we go. We got her. Laura. Laura Dunan. Laura Duman is the professor of English and Technical Writing at the University of Central Oklahoma. Laura, thank you so much for joining the show.

It's good to be here.

All right. Hey, can you just tell everyone a little bit about your role, a little bit about kind of the courses that you teach there at the University of Central Oklahoma?

Sure. I have a lot of different roles, but the one that kind of matters today is that I am the AI coordinator for our university, which means that I work with a group of people to make sure that if there are issues happening, we have a chance to address them. If there are educational opportunities for faculty or staff or students, I can help put those together or I can be there to help moderate or, you know, whatever's needed for that. And with my students right now, I'm actually back in the first year English composition classroom. I'm very excited about that. And I am also working with graduate students, so I teach a range of Intro to English and then technical writing courses, as well as a few graduates classes all.

All over the place. All over the place. Yeah. And, you know, hey, if, if you're joining us live, like Tara, who says she's excited for the conversation. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to get your questions in now, if you have any questions about how AI is used or should be used or shouldn't be used. Love to hear your comments, feedbacks and questions. So. So let's just start at the top, maybe, Laura, and at least at your university, help us understand, like, how is AI? How is generative AI being viewed right now?

Sure. I think at our university and probably most universities, you've got some faculty who are really on board. You've got some faculty or kind of in the middle, and then you've got faculty who haven't quite gotten on board yet for whatever reason. And I think that spectrum makes it both difficult and also a really rich space for us to engage with each other because there are some really great conversations that are happening. There are faculty who aren't on board yet, but who have really good reasons for it. And so those conversations can get really rich. But I think as we see that spectrum, it also can make it difficult for students because they don't necessarily know what is allowed in each class because professors can do whatever they want to with AI. So my big thing is, let's get guidelines in place. Have a syllabus statement of some kind that talks about AI. Have guidelines on your assignment sheets so that students know what's allowed or disallowed in the class. And that way they're less likely to accidentally step across the line into academic misconduct. And hopefully they're also less likely to purposely step across the line into academic misconduct.

Yeah. Not that students would ever try to always be one step ahead of the teachers. Right. That, that's. That's never a thing. I'm curious, Laura, because, like what you said there, to some it might sound so simple, right? Get guidelines on AI, But I'd imagine that it is multifaceted and not very easy. Can you even talk a little bit about the challenges? And, you know, maybe not just specifically about, you know, at the University of Central Oklahoma, but what are the challenges of getting guidelines on generative AI usage in higher education?

Sure. I will take one of my assignment sheets as an example. So in a component class, this is a space where students are usually learning how to write at the college level. They're learning to find their voice. They might be learning to do a little bit of research and do good citation. Some faculty feel like brainstorming and drafting have to be done by human, possibly by hand, and other faculty don't see that as such an issue. So as you're thinking about putting guidelines together, they might even be very different across classes and, you know, the same class, just instructors. And it can also be one of those things where if you haven't had a chance to play around and experiment with the different AI programs, maybe you don't know what they can and can't do, which also makes it hard for you to know what your students should or shouldn't do. So for a lot of us, it takes time and real thought to go back to, what do I actually want my students to come away from this assignment with? Okay, so how might AI augment some of that? How might we need to have human only moments? And so it's not just as simple as saying, yes, you can use AI, no, you can't use AI. It's really sitting down and think about, you know, so for my assignment, we've got topics, so brainstorming, rough draft, peer review, final draft, and then a reflective memo on the writing process. And AI fits into those spaces for me in different ways. So each piece of the assignment sheet has AI guidelines for how students can or can't use it in that moment. And you know, again, that's not something that you just sit down and draft in three minutes. That's, you know, maybe a day long or a week long process to really think about each assignment sheet.

Yeah. And, you know, I'm curious because, you know, what Alfonso is saying here is with the speed of change, sure, policy can be difficult. How much, how much does that complicate things? Because, you know, as a daily podcast that covers generative AI, we can barely keep up with, you know, all these big advancements, new models, new capabilities. Whether we're talking, you know, the text attacks of the Chat GPT and Google Bard World, or, you know, the, the mid Journey Dall E, how difficult is the speed of generative AI technology? How difficult is that for the education system to try to continually create policies that are both effective, ethical, but also that empower students?

Yeah, I think as much as possible, if institutions and instructors can come up with somewhat future proof guidelines. So instead of saying we are going to use ChatGPT at this time, in this way, we say, all right, so with large language models, we might do this. We could do this. Check with your instructor number one and then number two. As instructors, I think we need to be willing to put in the time throughout the semester to update our guidelines if we need to. Right now, mine are pretty wide in that I say, you know, brainstorming, if it makes sense for you to do so with transparency. So everything is with transparency. I want to know which program my students used, how they used it, if they liked it, did they get what they wanted out of it. And then we do AI literacy throughout the semester. And it's not always big things. Sometimes it's just, hey, this new program came out, look what it can do. Let's play with ChatGPT and see what it says. Let's compare it to Claude, you know, those kinds of things. So for me it's that having that constant curiosity to see what's going on. But I also realize that's exhausting for a lot of instructors. So I think if we can just find some high level things like, you know, I don't want you using AI for the problem set on this assignment. We'll check it, you know, in three weeks and see what AI is doing at that time. You know, like with just yesterday with the math one that you were talking about, you know, that was brand new. We didn't know it could do that.

Yeah, yeah, Literally just Developing, you know, new capabilities day by day. So, yeah, yeah, the, the policy side is understandably difficult. So. So I'm curious, you know, so it sounds like you know, your situation, which is kind of like, you know, professors, you know, kind of being on their own a little bit or, you know, having to come up with their own policies on a, you know, class by class or department by department basis, which I'm sure is, you know, pretty standard across the country. But what, at least for your own classroom, I would love to hear more even. What are your guidelines for the classes that you are creating? How are you telling students, you know, to use it, to not use it? And how are you even focusing on literacy?

Sure. So I'll go back to that one assignment sheet. And this is the basic guidelines for all of my assignment sheets. So brainstorming. I'm cool with AI if students need it. You know, I realize that the brainstorming is part of the learning process, but sometimes, especially if we're thinking about accessibility, students get caught at that cursor that, that I don't know what to do. And then sometimes they freak out. They prefer procrastinate. So if we can use AI so that they're not procrastinating, that to me is a good thing. But again, transparency with drafting. They're allowed to use AI to help with their drafts. They can have up to 40% of their drafts be AI generated. And they need to highlight that text in red. And I do that. I know there are citation guidelines, that's great. But with the red text, we can see if there are large blocks of text that are AI written and that becomes a learning space. Why are there large blocks of AI written text? Was it 11 o' clock at night? The papers due at 11:59? You didn't know what to write. Did you like the AI better than what you wrote? Did you not know what it was talking about? You just set it in there. You know, there are a lot of reasons. And then in peer review, they can put their own work into the AI to get feedback, but they may not put other people's work in. And that's something that I continue to talk to both students and faculty about, is because of privacy issues, we don't want to stick anybody else's work in with the final draft. 15% of that can be AI generated. Again, red text with their reflective memos. To me, because that is a personal reflection. I don't want them to use AI there. They're also talking about their AI use, what they did, what they didn't do same thing with the peer review. They actually will give me reflection on how good the AI information was compared to the human generated feedback. And then I've also added something that I call annotated PDFs. And that information, I have just a real brief discussion of that on my website as well in the Creative Commons files area. But what I have students do is every source that they use, they have to turn it into a PDF and then they have to highlight the quotes that they used and talk about why they used them, and then highlight any other spaces in those articles that maybe gave them an idea or made them think something interesting or led them to another topic. And yes, I know that AI can do that for them. But for the most part, like at this point, I have not had any obvious cheating through AI at all since it came online, which I know is a big thing. So my students seem to be willing to go on this journey with me.

Yeah, I was curious. I love the approach. Right. It's super specific, but also doesn't seem terribly hard to implement. You know, I'm sure there's extra challenges on the back end for you or, you know, anyone else that, that may be, you know, grading or checking it over. But what's the response been from the students so far for, for that kind of policy?

So far, my students have been fine with it. We struggled a little bit last semester implementing the annotated PDFs because students hadn't done that before. And so there was a little bit of a learning curve for them. But once they got into it, especially my graduate students last semester really appreciated the opportunity to sit down with the PDFs and mark them up because, you know, a lot of people say, well, let's just do an annotated bibliography, which is great, but most of us as researchers are not going to sit down and do an annotated bibliography as we're working through a topic that's something we might publish, but not something we would often do on our own. And I think a lot of us do just go out and read the articles and mark them up and highlight things that we're interested in. So this also gets to a more authentic research process for a lot of students. And I think when students see that a process is authentic to what they actually need to do, as opposed to feeling like busy work, they're also more likely to go on that journey.

It's, it's interesting because I feel that, that, that your approach here, Laura, it's, it's, it's Forcing students to use AI in the correct way. Right. Because I think if. If colleges and universities just say, oh, you know, we don't. We don't really care. Just tell us if you do. You know, obviously, I would say vast majority. You know, kind of like, you know, we had a. We had a comment from, from Woozy here saying he can't imagine, you know, ever. You know, he said, I can't imagine being in college right now and not using AI for everything. Right. But I guess that, that leads me to the next kind of elephant in the room. And I'm gonna try my. My hardest, Laura, to, To not go on an accidental hot take on this, but that's okay.

Go for it.

Yeah. Even. Even Tara asking about it. So if you've seen issues with plagiarism checkers, because that's something that universities are using across the country, where you take the text and plug it in and it says, this, is this percent AI generated? Is that something you all are using? And if so, have you seen problems?

And I'm going to try not to go on a hot take too, here. Okay, so AI detectors. Can we please, as instructors, stop using them? And I say that for a number of reasons. We watched OpenAI pull their AI detector last fall, saying, hey, it doesn't actually work. We've seen all sorts of problems with AI detectors. And some people will say, well, it gets it right. Most of the time, you know, there's a 1% error rate or a 6% error rate. That's not bad. But. But what happens to the students that we're falsely accusing? And I have watched this over and over in the groups that I'm in. I've had students come and talk to me about it. And, and what happens is we lose our students trust and they stop being willing to go on that learning journey with us if they have to spend time defending themselves. They also, you know, even Jason, our mutual friend, you know, was talking about his own experience being accused of using AI to write something that he didn't and how emotionally impactful that is and not in a good way. So if we want to create a space for our students to learn, to grow, to have a chance to make mistakes and recover from them, I don't think AI detectors are the space. It's a policing space that as instructors, we shouldn't be in. So instead, I take the time with those guidelines that I have, talking to my students constantly about, hey, look what the AI is doing this week. Check out Claude, see what Bard's doing. You know, and we play with these technologies and we talk about them and we learn, hey, ChatGPT gave me this answer, but it really wasn't that great and I had to spend an hour fixing it. And we also, you know, through the transparency that gives us the ethical space to say, yes, I used it. And then we've got things like Grammarly AI where students are using it. And a lot of times we're going to see students who are non native English speakers using something like Grammarly to quote unquote fix their language, or students who are developmental writers trying to sound more academic, and they're going to get caught up in the AI detector. We've got students who are neurodiverse. We're seeing those students get caught up more in the AI detector. And of course, as more information gets fed into the AI programs, more of what we write on our own is going to get flagged as AI because it's going to say, oh, I saw another person write like this, therefore I'm going to flag it. So if we can just move away from the idea of policing and spend time and again, I know we're exhausted, I get that. But we have to spend time creating spaces in our classrooms where our students learn how to use the AI ethically and effectively and are willing to tell us where they've used it. Foreign.

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You said it perfectly. I'm going to, I'm going to try to only follow up with. With facts. Yeah, so even OpenAI's detector they did shut it down because it was 26% accurate in testing. So, you know, yeah, you're, you're more likely to, you know, just flip a coin or to, you know, have a cat walk in and choose between two boxes than using any AI detector out there. They are fake.

They don't work.

All right, that's enough. I got it out of my system. So. Okay, that was, that was good. I was, I was hoping we didn't accidentally, you know, go, go 30 minutes on that one. So, so with, with that in, in mind, Laura, because not, not everyone is going to have, you know, your very calculated, multi, tiered, you know, well thought out approach to, to implementing AI in the classroom. So just as a whole, how can other university instructors, you know, prepare students? Right, because that's the other thing I talk about all the time, Jenna. AI skills are the most in demand, you know, skills out there right now. But so many universities aren't doing anything about it. So how do universities find that balance, especially when it is also new, so fresh.

Yeah. Again, I think instructors have to be out there experimenting with the AI in their field and knowing what can and can't happen. I think it's helpful if they are able to talk to actual practitioners in their field. So what's going on in nursing right now with AI? What's going on in dietetics? What's going on in history? Right. And so we're out there talking to people and saying, okay, what skills do our students need? How can we implement them? And just taking that time. And I know, like, I keep coming back to that, but we really have to take the time to figure out what our students are going to do with it and if it can solve math problems. And, you know, we're looking at the possibility of AI being able to reason. You know, people are questioning right now if it can reason. And you know, with GPT5 people, people are saying, yeah, that next leap is going to be reasoning. So what skills do our students need to thrive in this space and then we can just focus on those. So, you know, I teach technical writing and I want my students to be able to show that they still have value. When AI can write most things, maybe not well, but it can write them. And, you know, if we can go out to Grammarly and have it edit, you know, what's the point of an editor if you've used, you know, if you've ever even used word and you've gone, what is that suggestion? And why does it think that this verb should be that Right. You know that these programs don't always get things right. So helping students to understand where their value lies and helping students to learn how to learn about the AI programs. So, yeah, I'm going to talk about, you know, four major large language models, but I want students to know how to go out and find other programs and learn how to use them as benefits them in their work so that they can again, show value. So that's kind of my approach is that instructors need to figure out what makes value for their students.

Yeah, it's, it's great, great advice. So two, two part question here. We'll tackle it one at a time. So Monica asking, what. Are there specific AI courses right now being taught at your university?

Sadly, no, not really. Not that I know of. Let me put it that way. Somebody might have one on the books that I don't know about. I did try to offer an AI and writing course for the spring, and unfortunately it did not make. So what I am doing is I'm just putting AI literacy into my courses. I've got other colleagues who are putting AI literacy into their courses. But no, not that I know of.

And then the second part of her question is asking, what are some of the more unique pros and cons for AI in the college setting that maybe we haven't heard?

Hmm, that's an interesting question. Let me think on that. I think some of the pros are that we get to be out there playing and learning at the same time as our students, which I think also might be a con. Right. Because we have to get really comfortable with that gray space of not knowing everything. And I think as instructors, we're used to walking into the classroom and being like, boom, I know this material and now I'm going to transfer it to you. But with the AI, I think it's one of those challenges where you, you walk into the classroom maybe and you say, okay, hey, what have you all used it for this week? What's Snapchat up to this week? Anybody using it for LinkedIn, you know, that kind of thing. And so the pro is that we get to be on that journey with our students. The con is that we don't know necessarily that much more than they do about this topic. So I think that's going to be the one I'm going to sit with.

No, that's good. So, so my thought on, on maybe how this could be done or should be done, and I'd love to, to get your, get your feedback is I think universities should have dedicated and Required courses in generative AI. You know, my thought is it's, you know, in the future it's going to be just as important as, you know, math or science or English or, you know, business. Right. That's my thought, is there should be required courses in different areas of generative AI and then hopefully those learnings should be carried, you know, as you go into your more specialized colleges and departments. Is that a good approach? Is that feasible or is that just, you know, not really, you know, how you think it might shake out?

Sadly, I'm going to disagree with you here. So for us, we need this on the show.

It's always too much agreeing.

The, the thing about the curriculum cycle for us, and I think we may have a longer one than a lot of people do, but it's about a two year, one and a half to two year process. So we get classes that we start putting together summer or fall of year one, then spring of year one, they go to committees, and then fall of year two, they go out to the Academic affairs curriculum committee. And so then summer of year two, they're finally on the books. So it's, it's a two year process. And I think right now what we are dealing with is we are dealing with the students who didn't learn how to use AI in high school because K through 12 was banning it at first. And now you've got people who are on board. But there's the concern about, well, you know, people under 13 shouldn't be using them and how are we going to get this into the standard curriculum in high school. So right now we've got students who don't necessarily know how to use it ethically. My guess is that that's going to shift in three to five years as high schools get on board with this, have a curriculum that they can use to implement good AI usage. So I think in about three to five years our students are going to come to us with better ethical understandings of AI. And I think what that means is that any courses that we get on the books, A, they would be slow and B, because the technology is changing, you know, every day, every week, it's really hard to have a curriculum that's going to move forward that way. And you know, in a lot of universities you can't just have a special topics course that's open to anything. You have to have like a somewhat normative curriculum that's going to go from each time you teach it to each time you teach it. So I think that's a huge challenge as well. And I think that's also unfortunate because it means that instructors are left to try and figure out what fits into their field and students may not get some of that in depth ethical training that they need. So I don't know what the answer is, aside from maybe trying to get into to early first year courses and have some sort of dedicated learning model that can change every semester. But we go into those courses and maybe we have a day on AI where we talk to students. But I don't know what the other solutions might be at this point.

Yeah, that makes sense. Is in. But this, this. It also brings me to, you know, a point here that Alfonso was making saying, you know, slow adoptions, people are always talking about this is the way we've always done it. Mode does, does higher education, even the way that it operates, the way it works, the way it approves courses, does it need to change? Because things are just moving faster than they have been before.

There's a lot of conversation around that. And I think, I think it would be great if we had a faster way to get things going. And to an extent we do have some things we can do. So micro credentials, we can get out there really quick for students and faculty and staff. So you know, maybe six weeks to three months to get something together, which is pretty quick for academic purposes, I think things like that, workshops where people can attend but they don't have to. If we can give students some kind of credit, you know, maybe a badge of some kind is, you know, I love badges. I'll, I'll go to all sorts of workshops for badges. That kind of thing works. So I think things like that we have to get a little bit creative doing things outside of the box and not doing things the way that we've always done them because things are shifting so fast now.

So, you know, one, one, there's so many good questions, it's hard to stop here. Laura. So you know, literacy, you know, you, you talked about it, right? Like it starts obviously before, you know, higher education. It starts before college. A great question from Cecilia here asking what are your thoughts on the best ways to use AI in the elementary and secondary education? What are your thoughts on that?

Okay, so I have an 8 year old and 11 year old and my 8 year old is not really interested in AI yet. And that's great, that's fine. I think some of the learning programs that learn with your kid can be really helpful as long as they are walled gardens, they're closed off, they've been trained on the data sets, and we know they're giving them the right answers, which is not what happens with large language models. Right now with my older son, he has a coding class that he goes to and sometimes he has questions that are something that the teacher can't help him with. So I've actually taught him how to get into Bing because he can use Bing for free and he can use it at his coding class on the computer, so he can pull up Bing and he can ask it his coding question as he's going through. And I think that's a really good use of it because the program that they're using had an AI assistant built in, but you only had so many tokens and he ran out of tokens. So I think things like that can be really helpful. You know, I'm wary of things like your AI best friend that we've seen in some of the social medias because we've seen that those don't always have really good guardrails and they might be talking to children about things that are grown up topics and that children certainly don't need to be discussing in the way that these AI programs are discussing, for sure. So I think, I think the biggest thing is that if tech companies want to help educators, they need to work with educators. And then again, they do need to be those walled gardens, closed systems trained on the data specifically for that topic or specific for that grade level so that we know that whatever information is coming back is valid.

So, Laura, we've talked about so much here. We've talked about, you know, ethical and responsible use of AI literacy content detectors. You walked us through your own process, which I think is fantastic. But maybe, you know, as we wrap up here, because I'm sure there's a lot of educators who are going to be listening. What's your one, one takeaway? What's your one takeaway that you want people to say, hey, going forward, this is the one piece of advice that I give you in order to bring more AI literacy into the classroom.

Oh, man. Only one? Okay. I think that my advice is that AI is here whether we like it or not. Our students are going to be using it whether we like it or not. And that means that if we want our students to use it ethically and effectively, we have to spend some time with these programs. We have to spend some time with our assignment sheets. And, you know, even if that means taking time over winter break, over summer break to just really sit down with it and think about it, we have to figure out where it works. For us. And I think my biggest takeaway from that is that every instructor and every course is going to have slightly different needs and values from the AI. And it's great for us to be having conversations with each other, but we also have to dig deep and figure out what works for us and go forward from there.

All right, class is closed, y'.

All.

We just, we just got a great 30 minute education from. From Laura. Laura, thank you so much for coming on the AI show and sharing your insights and expertise with us. We really appreciate it.

Thank you.

And hey, as a reminder, we went over a lot, so make sure to go to your everydayai.com we're going to be recapping everything that we talked about with Laura and a lot more, sharing some other resources. So your everydayai.com check it out. Sign up for the newsletter and come back. See you tomorrow and every day with more Everyday AI. Thanks, y'. All.

And that's a wrap for today's edition of Everyday AI. Thanks for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave us a rating. It helps keep us going for a little more AI magic. Visit youreverydayai.com and sign up to our daily newsletter so you don't get left behind. Go break some barriers and we'll see you next time.