EP 67: Making AI Content Not Sound Robotic

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Can AI make you a better writer? Can using tools like ChatGPT or Jasper improve your writing and help you convert more? That's one of the things that we're going to be talking about today on Everyday AI. This is your show guys. It's your daily livestream, podcast and free newsletter helping everyday people not just learn AI, but how we can actually leverage it in our day to day jobs. And one thing that almost all of us do is we write, whether it's emails, presentations, whatever it is and we have to be able to write compelling copy. And why not use AI? So stick around. We're going to talk about that in just a second. But first let's talk about what's happening in the news. Every every morning when we come to you live, 7:30am Central Standard Time, we go over the news and then we bring on a guest. So if you are joining us live, please make sure to drop a comment. Drop a question too, and we'll get to it. So first up in the news, aws. So Amazon Web Services just recently announced giving their customers the ability to build their own AI agents. So what does that mean for everyday people? Well, you might be able to automate your job a little better and companies are going to be obviously using and investing their time into this new service to see how they can even automate more mundane and manual tasks. All right, second piece. So Stable Diffusion has finally, after much anticipation, released their XL 1.0 image generation software. So this is kind of their first big iteration that a lot of people have been waiting for. So Stable Diffusion is an image generation technology. Kind of. On the show yesterday we talked about midjourney, which I think is the leader in this space. Then you have Dall E from OpenAI and a couple of others. But Stable Diffusion is one of the big players and kind of Stable Diffusion fans have been waiting for this XL 1.0 model for many months, so just released. So make sure to check out in the newsletter, we'll have more on that. And then last but not least for our big news topics of the day, the Frontier Model Forum. Maybe you haven't heard of it yet, but you probably will be hearing about it. So this is kind of the big AI companies have united for safe progress. So this is separate from from what we talked about Monday and last week on the kind of seven big AI tech companies meeting with The White House and coming to an unofficial agreement. So the Frontier Model Forum is Microsoft anthropic, Google and OpenAI have launched this to promote the safe and responsible development of advanced AI models. So a lot going on as normal. We already have some people joining us, some, some fan favorites. Thank you, Nancy, for joining us. Good morning. Great topic. I agree. Brian, good morning. So, yes, thank you. Thank you. For those of you joining us almost every single day in the morning, I love it. But if you're listening on the podcast, make sure to check in your show notes. We'll leave a link so you can join us in the future and get your questions answered from experts in their field. So speaking of experts in their field, excited to bring on today's guest. So we have Audrey Chia, who is the founder of Close with Copy. Audrey, how are you?

Hi, nice to meet you guys and thank you for having me on the show, Dalton. Appreciate it.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I, I do love it when we have, you know, people who watch and listen to the show and add value too. You know, Audrey's always, you know, in the comments, even answering people's questions. So super, super excited to have you on the show. But Audrey, just, just tell people real quick before we dive into this topic, what do you do with Close with copy?

Yes. So basically I run a hybrid human AI copywriting consultancy. And what I do is combine the best of human intelligence together with AI execution. So the way I do things is that it's not really like 100% AI automation. I always combine like 20% human strategy and insights. Then I turn it into really actionable stuff with AI.

Yeah, I think what you said, there is going to be such a topic of discussion in marketing, in advertising circles over the coming months is, you know, as we're all now starting to use more AI and it's becoming, you know, more accessible and almost an expectation. I think keeping that human element is so important. How have you tried to do that so far? You know, working with your clients or even in your own business building, keeping that human touch, but also using all of those AI tools.

Yeah, so I personally have experimented with lots of AI tools. Like I'm all about optimization. So I've tried almost like 8 to 10 different copy AI tools. The problem that I faced when I used those tools was that it doesn't actually include the human insight. It doesn't have your brand tone of voice, your market positioning. It doesn't capture the true value of the brand. So what I had to do was to figure out how I could prompt for this approach, which means actually turning the way I think into a system of prompts and then using that and creating really high quality content. So that kind of like high level thinking actually translates into a better quality work.

Yeah, and you know, you mentioned tools, right? Because especially if you are in marketing, advertising or you're trying to write better copy, you've probably seen so many lists of tools on the Internet and it's always a question that we get, you know, here on the show. So I'll just go ahead and ask it for creating not just better copy with AI, but copy that converts. Because that's what this is all about, everyone. Right, Audrey, what are some of your go to tools and techniques for writing copy that converts but using AI? Because if you don't know what you're doing and you just jump into a tool, it might not sound that great. So what are your go tos?

I think the first thing first is to figure out what makes a copy convert. And it always depends on the audience inside. So if you have to sell any kind of product, whether it's through ads or emails or landing pages, it's all about what your audience cares about. Their pains, their fears, their desires, their wants. You have to get those insights even before you craft a copy. So if you were to use any other tool out there without those insights, your copy isn't going to be impactful because it's only going to be like really superficial. So what you actually need to do, right, is to figure out those audience insights. And ChatGPT4 is really good at getting insights for you. That is one way I used to hack the whole process. Get ChatGPT4, come up with like 10 to 15 audience insights and then I pick like 5 and then I use it to create ad copy around those insights targeting a specific pain point. And only then I review the content and decide out of, let's say the next 10 output that I get, I would choose three that would work and then refine the copy. And that saves me 70% of the time it takes to create like high conversion copy.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So if you're a new ChatGPT user, Audrey just gave you some, some great insights. These are, these are the exact things that we even, you know, talk about in our course. And don't worry, we are going to go over a lot in this conversation. We do have the free newsletter where we're going to be recapping everything, so, so sit back and enjoy. You don't have to jot down notes too fast. And I do want to quickly just give a shout out to other other listenings, join other listeners joining us. So, Josh, thank you for tuning in. Michael joining us from New Jersey, Jan joining us from, from Germany. He said, good morning, we just had lunch. Esther, thank you for joining. Maurice, there's, there's a lot of people. Monica from Chicago. All right, so one thing, Audrey, that you mentioned is GPT4. I think even people don't always understand what that means. So let's break it down. In ChatGPT, if you're using the free version, you are using 3.5. And I tell people that's like using a flip phone from the 90s when you're using GPT4, especially with plugins or with code interpreter. So there's different modes. I say that's like using a smartphone, right? Right. It's like using the newest smartphone. What's kind of your advice for people who are maybe new to the paid version of ChatGPT? Because you mentioned some great things like using it to get audience insights and some of those things. So what's kind of your best advice for someone that's just starting in the Pro version of ChatGPT?

I have so many tips, but I will only share three today. Okay, so the first tip is that if you really wanted to convert, write really high converting copy and you should always go for GPT4. I tested the same prompt on 3.5 and 4. The output of 4 is always better. It understands the brand's tone of voice and the nuances a lot better than GPT 3.5. The second thing is to use GPT 4 with web scraper. The reason is because you can actually pull a tone of voice from a brand just by having the website link included in the prompt. So there are some tricks that I use to actually analyze a brand's tone of voice and then use that again to create copy that converts in the brand's tone of voice. So think of it like a tool, right? You don't think of it as giving it instructions. You think of it as how would you use it to get the output that you want and then recreate something that you actually want. So it's always like, how can I play around with things and get creative in order to identify the actual output. And the third thing is actually for audience insights, GPT4 is pretty good. It gives me really, really good insights and it's pretty accurate. And some of them turn actually create really good results as well. So if you compare 3.5 and 4, right. The insights Itself, the level of difference is, wow, just test it for yourself.

Yeah, and what Audrey said there is so important, because one thing that people always struggle with using AI or GPT, especially when it comes to writing, is hallucinations or getting things that aren't right or aren't correct. So yes, you need to be on GPT4 for that, but you also need to, like Audrey said, you need to have a plugin that enables you to read websites or to scrape websites. Right? Because I've even done a couple videos on this. But even other AI chats that are connected to the Internet, even when you give them links, they cannot always read it correctly because they don't. Even if you give Anthropics Cloud 2 a link, Google Bard a link, Microsoft Bing Chat a link, they actually query, they don't visit the link. So that's where ChatGPT has such a huge advantage. You know, a couple other comments already and questions that I'd love to get to. So yes, this is a live recording for Schwat who just asked. So if you do have questions for Audrey, make sure you ask those questions. So Nancy, Nancy with a question here. It seems like prompting has become a new craft to learn. Audrey, do you agree? Are you still running in circles trying to figure out how to actually grow your business with AI? Maybe your company has been tinkering with large language models for a year or more, but can't really get traction to find ROI on Genai? Hey, this is Jordan Wilson, host of this very podcast. Companies like Adobe, Microsoft and Nvidia have partnered with us because they trust our expertise in educating the masses around generative AI to get ahead. And some of the most innovative companies in the country hire us to help with their AI strategy and to train hundreds of their employees on how to use Gen AI. So whether you're looking for ChatGPT training for thousands or just need help building your front end AI strategy, you can partner with us too. Just like some of the biggest companies in the world do. Go to your everydayai.com partner to get in contact with our team or you can just click on the partner section of our website. We'll help you stop running in those AI circles and help get your team ahead and built a straight path to ROI on Genai.

Absolutely. You have no idea how much it has changed my life. I used to take about two weeks to build a landing page. I can do it in two hours with the same exact quality and just with the right prompt and the right strategy. So it's a really skill that I would highly recommend everyone to learn.

Yes. You know, Leonard saying what's up to both of us. Leonard, thank you for joining. Comment here from Michael saying just ask chatgpt what my target market struggles are in marketing already seeing how to write better copy. Archie, let's, let's tackle that part a little bit more. What Michael just talked about and what you talked about as well. So asking ChatGPT for kind of more information on your target audience, how is that helpful for not just writing? Right, because anyone can jump into any of these tools, you know, ChatGPT, Jasper, writesonic, whatever it may be, and write copy. But there's a huge difference between using these tools to write copy that converts. What are your best kind of tips for people to use? Kind of like what Michael is talking about here to write compelling copy that converts.

Yeah. So over here we are going to talk a bit about like brand strategy and brand positioning. So the first thing you need to figure out is what do you offer? What are your USPs, your unique selling points, who is a target audience and how do you meet their needs? So you need to find this overlap between what you offer and what your target audience wants. And that is actually the perfect sweet spot that we're trying to figure out. So when you talk about copy that converts, right, it's about experimenting with different messages in this beautiful overlap. For example, I think of five different angles and then I'll test five different messages and one of the five could work better. And that's when I'll use that one message and create even more creatives. So you can see it's a very systematic process. Right. I figure out what I can offer, I figure out what they want, I figure out how to sell it to them and then I test, optimize and recreate that kind of value.

Sure. Yeah. Such, such a great step by step, step by step breakdown there. And just just as a reminder, if you are listening like CT is asking here, there is a recording available if you are joining us live, don't worry but please, please just go to your everyday AI.com in the show notes or in the comments here. Go ahead, sign up for the daily newsletter because yes, we are dropping a lot of great insights and information. We're going to lay it all out in the newsletter, Don. So sit back, relax and ask some great questions. Leonard. Asking 99% bard visits the link. No, it doesn't. So at least. So Bard had a new update probably about two weeks ago. We did some pretty extensive testing. So what Bard actually does Sometimes it will visit the link, but it actually takes the keywords in the link and it queries. So even with great prompting, with great direction, sometimes Bard will visit the link. Many times it won't. And that's the case with most AI chats, cloud included, Bing chat. Which is why ChatGPT, I think, is such a powerhouse compared to other tools. It sounds like, Audrey, that this is ChatGPT. Even though you've used a lot of other tools, it sounds like ChatGPT is your favorite. Is that true?

For now, you never know what's going to come out, so I shall wait and see. But for now, GPT4 is my absolute favorite. If you know how to prompt, you know the final vision that you want, you can create lots of incredible results in a short amount of time and the quality can still remain the same. So it's never a trade off between I'm using AI, does it mean the output is. Doesn't have to be. Isn't what I'm expecting. No, it doesn't have to be. You can have the same quality output generated at half the time and also with something that actually delivers value to your audience. So. And it's entirely possible, and I want and more people to see that because that's exactly what I'm doing every single day.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another question here, Audrey, which I think is a good one. We've kind of already talked about this, but how can we develop human insights, especially using, you know, these tools, you know, these AI writing tools. How can we get human insights from a machine? What's your best advice on that?

Yeah, so of course you can hire me or you can work with me. I'm always happy to chat, but shameless plug aside, AI is just one layer in which you get the insights. So what, for example, when I prompt for insights, right, I will tell ChatGPT, act as a brand strategist. Can you deep dive into my target audience and I'll give a description of the target audience and I'll say, can you identify in depth insights about demographics, psychographics, their needs and desires, their pain points and wants? So I'm really breaking it down into the specific kind of details that I wanted to probe into and only then it gives me the output that I want. But I must say that it's not the end all, be all. The best way to get insights is to talk to your customer, is to really figure out what are their needs. How can I help you? What are you facing challenges with? And if you can combine the AI part of things with, for example, face to face interaction with your customer, getting surveys done. You get the full picture really quickly and then that's the beauty of it.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, Audrey's had great advice is when you feel ChatGPT isn't tapping enough into your target, target audience or even with your brand voice, the best thing to do is always to give it a link and you know, to, to better understand and to guide it, you know. So Nancy, Nancy here with a question. Yeah. And I will break this out a little. A little in a different way. So asking Web Scraper, what does that mean? Is that a plugin like mixer box? Want to make sure you understand the term. Yes. These are plugins for the most part that we're talking about. So ChatGPT used to have a mode which is different than a plugin called Browse with Bing, but because of a lot of copyright infringement lawsuits, that mode is gone now. So, yes, you do have to have plugins enabled to access the Internet. And there are different types of Internet plugins. We've used them all. I believe there's 13 as of last week. And we're going to do another show on this next week. But all, all Internet connected plugins perform differently, that's the thing. So you should always be testing different plugins for your best needs. Audrey, I have a question. We have plenty from the audience, but I have one here. You're spending a lot of time comparing different tools, different techniques. What's maybe one takeaway through all of your experimentation that maybe has surprised you? And on the backside you're like, oh, if I would have known that a month or two ago, this would have saved me a lot of time. So what's some of that advice that you can impart onto the audience through what you've learned?

Yeah, this, this is good. This is the goal. Okay, so I'm going to share something that I discovered. Through a process of experimentation, you can get ChatGPT to critique its own work. So this is the amazing part. So let's say it gives you V1, right? And then you're not very satisfied with it and you're wondering, how can it be better? I then asked it to critique its own work from the lens of X, Y and Z. And then it gives me V2 now improved with that feedback that I didn't actually give it. So it actually gave itself feedback and gave you a better output. That's a really cool hack. You should try it. It's a fun hack.

Yeah, that's great advice. And again, shameless plug. This is something that we teach. We have a free course called Prime Prompt Polish. I already know a couple people in the comments have taken it. If you're interested, just type in PPP in the comments or in the show notes. If you're on the podcast, we have the email. Just, just go ahead and I'll send you that information. We don't even put it on our website, so it's, it's only for if you're actually listening. So, so make sure to drop that there. Uh, so, uh, question. So here's a great thing from, from Leonard here and let's talk about this, Audrey. So, uh, you know, Leonard saying, try feeding several samples of your best performing copy and others too. Is this something that you've done, Audrey? And how helpful is it to give ChatGPT examples, writing or someone else's writing at least when it comes to creating compelling copy that converts?

Yes, this is actually a very important step. What I do is actually at least have for example three examples of either my copy or somebody else's copy or a brand's copy so they understand the tone of voice and structure. And what I would prompt for is for ChatGPT to understand both of these things, tone of voice and structure and style writing, in order for me to then feed it the same data and prompt and recreate another thing in that same structure. But what I can also advise is that for high conversion copy, you need to think about again, the length of it. Because if you use any other AI tool or you ask ChatGPT, write me a Facebook copy, you're going to see an essay. It's not going to work. Another hot tip that I have is think about the channel in which you are going to be posting your ad or your content on and what is the best length and format for it. And then you create the prompt using that format instructor in mind. And that gives you really great output as well.

Yeah, and something, you know, to kind of address ama key question here about how, how you can get it to write more like you. A small thing that I think people overlook is all like what we teach is every single chat, you need to train that individual chat as if it's an employee. So, you know, don't, you know, start a new chat every day. All of those tasks, all of those chats should be specific for different tasks that you need and you should be continually going in there, like Audrey said, V1, not good enough. Let's work on it. V2 so with whatever that chat was for, whenever you're working on a project that needs that. Go back to that chat that you're already training. Right. Audrey, what is maybe as you look, you know, in the future, right. There's been so many new advancements in just writing copy, right. We talked about Cloud from Anthropic. Google Bard has had some big updates. We didn't even talk about this. But finally, Microsoft Bing Chat, you don't have to download the Edge browser. You can finally use it in Chrome. So there's a lot going on in this kind of AI chats world. What are some maybe new developments or new projects in the creative writing space? And using AI, what are things you're looking forward to or things that you're working on that you're really excited about?

Yeah, I think one thing that I'm really excited about is actually using AI for the data side of things for performance marketing. For those of you who are not familiar with performance marketing, it's like if you're running ads on Facebook or Instagram and you're looking at data to find the results in an ideal situation. As a marketer, I would love to see AI generated copy based on smart insights they then tested. And once you get the results, you get AI to analyze the best results and then you recreate copy that then creates a beautiful funnel. I'm pretty sure it's going to happen soon. And I think that marketers who are able to leverage such tools or figure out a flow like that for themselves will be the ones that are going to be a hit.

Absolutely. There's so many marketers and advertiser. Marketers and advertisers who are trying to avoid AI for whatever reason. And I just say stop, right? Like Facebook meta. Right. They just announced yesterday that their Stock went up 10% in one day, which is unheard of for a company that side largely because of how they're integrating their AI into their advertising model. Because now it's de facto out of the box. You have AI options. Audrey, how do you think that AI in general. So maybe just outside of ChatGPT or, you know, kind of AI chatbots, how do you think that AI is going to shape and shift the marketing and advertising industry?

Yeah. So maybe just to share, right. The reason why I started to use AI was because my client dropped me a message one day and said, audrey, you're going to be replaced. And he sent me a link of ChatGPT. And I was like, so that started my entire journey. And that was why I actually thought, if I see the potential of it it's not fully there yet, but if I were to choose, I'd rather ride the tide than fight the current. Right. And if I can leverage it to scale even faster, then why not do so? I know there are a lot of marketers and advertisers who are still afraid of it, who think that it could replace many aspects of their jobs. But if you think of it as a tool that you use in your process, what you're going to be able to do is to run even faster than before and create even greater things than before. So you have the vision. AI is that canvas in which you paint your vision on. And that's how I see it.

Yeah. Wow. Wow. We could, we could have this conversation going on for hours. But let's, let's stop there because I think that's such a good place to end. And you probably have so many more questions. There's so many comments that are in. So thank you for joining today. But, Audrey, I'm gonna give you one last, one last opportunity here. Why should people be using AI in their writing? And what is your one takeaway to get people started?

Okay, so I think the reason why you should be using it is because, again, if you're not using it, you're missing out. That's really it. There's so much potential and opportunity. Right. If you're able to harness the right prompts, you will see huge time savings. You'll see lots and lots of quality output generated and you'll be able to scale them faster than before. And that's why I tell all my clients and all the brands who are even maybe at this stage, not really sure about using AI, but considering. So if you haven't started, do it. And if it's, if there's one takeaway is that AI should never be used alone. You should always combine it with human insight, human strategy, high level thinking. And that's how you maximize its potential.

Absolutely. Wow. So, Audrey, so much knowledge dished out, so many great tips and advice for the everyday person trying to improve their copywriting using AI, but still keeping it human. Thank you so much for joining the show. We really appreciate it.

Thank you for having me.

All right, and as a reminder, we talked about a lot. There's a lot of tools, a lot of tips, a lot of processes. Don't worry, we're going to break it all down for you bit by bit. We have a free daily newsletter, so make sure you go to your everydayai.com sign up for that free daily newsletter. We're going to be sharing about all the different things that Audrey talked about, all the different tools, tips and techniques, as well as everything else. We break down the AI news every single day. We do tutorials. So many things. So make sure you check out the free daily newsletter. And we are giving away six months of ChatGPT plus and six private lessons. So even if you have. Even if you have the paid version of ChatGPT plus to take advantage of all these things that Audrey was talking about, you still might need someone to teach you how. So make sure to go sign up. That ends in a couple of days. So with that, thank you so much for joining us and we hope to see you back tomorrow and every day on Everyday AI. Thank you.

And that's a wrap for today's edition of Everyday AI. Thanks for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave us a rating. It helps keep us going. For a little more AI magic. Visit your everydayai.com and sign up to our daily newsletter so you don't get left behind. Go break some barriers and we'll see you next time.