Real Estate’s Most Dangerous “Truths” with Dani Beit-Or

What's up everybody? Welcome back to the New and Experienced Investor Podcast. We have a returning guest, one of the guests of the year today. We're very excited to bring him on. I'm one of your hosts, I'm Alex Barnett. I'm the new guy.

And I'm Joe Holmes. And the, I guess I'm the experienced guy.

You darn right you are. Today we have Danny Bator back on the show with us today. How you doing, Danny?

Hey guys. Good to be here. Always, always a pleasure. My favorite podcasters.

Awesome.

Yes. Thank you.

And we are the number one live podcast in Laguna Hills.

We are.

So we are, uh, welcome back. Happy to have you today. We're talking about dangerous truths in real estate, things that you hear at these meetups, you read 'em on BiggerPockets, somewhere like that. And you think that it's real, but it might actually be hurting your investing.

Yeah, I think that's a good topic. I call it conventional stupidity, right? It's usually what people hear and they copy and stay and nobody even try, but they just bring it forward without even thinking it through. So be aware of the conventional stupidity.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's go ahead and jump right into it. Do you have one right off the top of your head that you can think of that people that you hear about all the time?

I got a bunch of them. Okay, that's, uh, one that I hear always, or a lot, is what, uh, a lot of people say, always, always buy with an LLC, which I think it's good advice, but it's not an absolute truth to always buy with an LLC.

Whoa, shots fired, Joe.

Well, that's true. Um, you have to understand If you're buying with an LLC and you're getting a loan, most of the time the traditional lenders aren't going to give you a loan. They're going to give you a loan in your name, right? And then after that, then you transfer it into your LLC. If you're using hard money, that's a different story. They do want you to put it in an LLC.

Sure. And, and so always is a keyword there. Yeah, exactly. And I think for me it's always been, uh, you know, it's kind of funny, the I was sitting with, with one of my lenders in Phoenix maybe 15 years ago, maybe more, and he brought this point up. And he says, don't you think it's weird that all those lawyers go out there in the seminars and they, they make— they put the fear into us? And then he asked me a good question. He says, you've been around. How many people do you know that got sued and the LLC saved them or did not save them? And my answer, it was zero. And I'm not saying it's not happening out there. I wonder what your answer is. And I think the point is, it's not about, you know, that it cannot happen. It's just not the ultimate truth. And I think also people think the LSE is like an invisible shield. It will protect me perfectly. It doesn't work this way at all. So even if you have one, you're not necessarily protected and you don't necessarily have to have one.

Yeah, I would agree. As some guy who has been sued, uh, LLC didn't do crap for me.

Well, you don't know that because, you know, they could have gone a lot farther into, uh, your other personal assets and stuff.

Oh yeah.

At this point they're not.

Well, because I didn't have any by the time they sued me. I had a van and that was it.

And that's, that's a great point as well. Like, you know, sometimes, you know, what are you protecting? If you have nothing to protect, then really, what do you need an LLC for?

Yeah.

You know, I always tell people, I said, you're in your 3rd to 5th transaction, start thinking about protecting, you know, what you have. But even then, if, you know, if you've got, let's say, a million-dollar portfolio and $900,000 in loans, what are you protecting? $100,000.

Exactly.

You're not protecting a lot.

Yeah. Well, I think that for me, it's never like— it's not a def— it's not an ultimate yes. It's not an ultimate no. It's about evaluating the risk and what you're protecting. Like you said, it's also about making— I look at LLC as part of my protection scheme. Right. So my protection scheme would be take care of my property to reduce liability to begin with. Would be to would be to have a property insurance umbrella, and then one more layer would be possibly the the LLC protection. And even the LLC has to be set up in a certain way in order to fully withhold and protect when it you know to protect me if something happens. And I think the point is be evaluate if you need or not. If you do a flip, I would say absolutely higher risk, right? If you buy with a conventional mortgage, maybe even. you want one, it's not necessarily that as simple. Um, if you're buying cash, you know, different situation. And then if you have multiple properties, people always ask, do we need to have all the one LLC or multiple LLCs? And I always look at it, it's not a question of how many LLCs, it's equity that you're protecting, right? And not—

Absolutely.

So I think there's a lot of— I, I think the point I'm trying to make is that this is a question that always comes up And for some reason, people tend to put the LLC on a pedestal as if it's the ultimate thing.

Yeah.

And I'm just trying to poke a little bit, you know, like, you know, it is important. I'm not saying it's not, but it's a little bit more deeper, comprehensive conversation you should have with someone.

It's not one answer fits all.

My least favorite thing is people say, I'm ready. I opened my LLC and I'm ready to start.

Oh gosh, me too.

And they put so much effort into the LLC and now they're—

Yes.

So you can— little secret, you can buy and then set up the LLC afterwards. You don't have to set up the LLC first and then start buying. For me, it's always the opposite order of things.

Are you good? Alex is trying to figure out—

We are having a host navigating everything here. Amazing. Yeah. So you guys keep keep going.

Okay, let's talk about something else then. Go back to his screen.

There you go. Want to talk about maybe property manage property managers?

Sure. Okay.

Sure.

So another conventional conventional stupidity that I hear a lot is. Lack of a better term, that all property managers are crooks, which I beg to differ. I've met a lot of property managers that are anywhere from okay and good to even amazing, consistently amazing. So a lot of people are intimidated by property managers for the wrong reason. And I think the easier way to go about it is vet, check, you know, I call it investigate the property manager, do your due diligence. But they're not all bad people. You need a camera.

I don't know if you're going to hold that, be able to hold that there.

Do you need me to hold it?

No, no, there you go.

Oh, okay.

Wow.

Yeah. Okay. That's why we have a tech guy on.

Yeah, yeah. I'm glad he's he's the one doing this.

All right.

Yeah.

Okay.

We're back.

Okay.

Well, property managers, I agree. You know, there's good ones out there. There are bad ones out there. Just like anything else, you'll find good and bad in everything. Exactly.

That's exactly the point.

It's you know, it's your job to do your due diligence and find the good ones out there.

Yeah. One of the favorite things that maybe you know should which, uh, someone should— people should know that a lot of people, rightfully so, when they have— they want to look at the reviews, Google, Yelp, whatever, property manager.

If you—

if my experience is a lot of experience with, with looking at property managers' reviews, if you go online and check the reviews, property managers' reviews are always going to be bad.

Yes.

The people who leave the reviews are typically the tenants and not the happy owners.

Yes.

They will leave bad reviews For the most part, and then if you don't know that, you go like, oh my God, the reviews are terrible. It's the actually when I go see reviews and they're good for the property manager, it's actually when I get a red flag because I don't see good property manager reviews unless it's fabricated.

Yes.

So if I go and I see that and they're like good reviews, I'm like, hmm, that's very opposite of the industry.

Let me tell you a story. Because I do property management as well, and I don't advertise that a lot, but every once in a while I'll get a call from somebody. And I got a call from this young lady in Irvine, and she had a tenant who was living actually in the property with her, and she was just renting out a room. And he was smoking, you know, something dope and, and taking drugs and, um—

Something.

The association had sent their letters. He's outside so everybody in the community can smell it. And then he was running around one day with a gun.

Oh.

And so she asked me, you know, what can I do? And I said, yeah, you know what, I'm a nice guy. Let me call him and, you know, tell him like, you know, that's not acceptable. You're not able to accept that. And, you know, please stop it or move out. The only bad review I have on my Google—

Oh my God.

Yes, is from him.

Yeah.

I got a 1.

Are you harshing as well?

Yes.

You just proved the point.

Yes, no, absolutely. That's why I mentioned it. So, and then I, you know, contacted Google and I said, hey, can you remove this? And they said no.

Yeah.

They won't remove that stuff from you. And then, and then I wanted to put a comment in there, but then I figured, wait a second, if I put a comment, then he gets a response, right? And then he can go nuclear. And you know, make it worse. So I said, "Forget it. I'll just live with it." So out of all my tens that I have on there, I have a one.

So yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. So I think that you know, I think that yeah, I think when we do real estate, you know, I come from real estate investing, but real estate altogether dig deep.

Yeah, right.

It's the same thing about you know when to do an LLC, right? Dig deeper later, and then. Property managers, some are. First of all, there is no such thing. I've not met that person, a great property manager. I have had the privilege of working with probably over 70 property managers in a large scale over the years. And when I say large scale is in multiple years, multiple properties. The good ones are good. There's nothing nobody's amazing. But they're definitely good ones. They're not all crooks. And actually, I also stay away from someone who's Particularly cheap or inexpensive with the fees, it's also a red flag for me. Like they may be cutting corners.

That brings up a question: What makes a good property manager?

I take two hours to I call it interrogate a property manager in our first conversation when I dive deep to his processes. I want to understand how he handles evictions, how he handles vetting, how he handles visit the property. How does it? Talk, go about leasing. So it's I'm breaking down all those aspects of property management, and I'm really trying to understand how this person operates in all those sections. You know, when I do it, and that's why it takes you know it's over seventy questions I have when I do this interrogation. I'm trying to find out you know poke holes and see if there's consistency of lack of professionalism. So it's not a bad one thing, and it's Not easy to spot right off the bat. I think that a lot of property managers where they fail, I mean, across the board, the biggest failure point is communication. They don't understand that it's better to communicate. I mean, maybe they do understand, they're just poor in doing it. Tell what's going on, even if it's bad news. Usually they call the person, the owner, say, hey, the tenant left and the AC is broken. Instead of when they're dumping all the bad news at once, and what do you want to do? And the person is still at the tenant lift and you already need answers, right? You know, build it up, tell them what's going on. Where, you know, it's, it's, that's where I think, because that reduces the freak, it reduces the stress. And a lot of the management is managing stress of the owner, especially if they're doing it remotely. And that's where most of them fail. But it's, they can be great communicator, But terrible at the systems.

Yeah.

And that's where it doesn't matter if they're amazing communicators.

But we've never worked together, uh, at least on my property management side. Um, I go overboard with my clients. And, you know, kind of— let me kind of give you an example. Um, I had a tenant call the other day and she says, Joe, I'm like getting bit up by some bugs all over the place. And I'm going, Thinking like, uh, you have bedbugs? And she says, no, no, it's not bedbugs. I checked. It's not bedbugs. And how did you check? You know, you gotta get a magnifying glass to find those guys. She goes, oh, I don't think it is. Um, it's coming, you know, maybe it's coming from my bathroom area and there's a window and there's a bird nest right outside the window.

The old bird nest.

I had it personally. I already know what you're getting. I think so.

It had a bird nest outside the window, and, and I don't know if the bird's there anymore or not, uh, but maybe, you know, I read on ChatGPT that it could have some, you know, little mites or whatever. So the reason I bring that up is I literally went out there, you know. I don't know that you'll find many property managers that do a lot of what I do because I go out on everything. I don't care what it is. Yeah, I go out Because I have 50 years of experience. If it's, if it's, you know, replace the battery in the smoke detector, and she's 95 years old and can't do it, I'll go out there and do it. Okay. So anyways, I opened the screen, I reach out there, I touched the bird nest, and there's nothing in there. I can tell there's nothing. So I just grabbed it, took it out and threw it, threw it down, and then, you know, swept it up later. And I said, okay, well, It's gone now. You know, it's not coming from there, but, you know, let me know.

She hasn't called back. I had exactly what you just said with the nest, who one of the chicks died. And when that was eaten out, they came, they were looking for the next warm body. That was us.

Yes.

You can't see it because they're transparent and they're so tiny, but we're all covered. Oh, wow. And eventually we saw them on the wall. And like only when the guy told us, We can actually see them. Yeah, exactly what I— what you said. Yeah, it's unpleasant.

Well, I, I, you know, honestly, I didn't believe her to begin with, but I, I went out there and I checked and I took care of at least that problem. I don't— you know, she hasn't called back and said I'm still getting bit up. I think it's more something inside the house, you know, that was happening.

At least you didn't tell her to like go, um, anti-landlord, you know. I feel like ChatGPT, like a lot of tenants are using it to somehow No, no, she's, she's a really nice tenant.

She's a good tenant.

Of course.

No, they all are.

And, you know, uh, any tenant, any problem, I always go out, honestly. And if I can fix it myself right there, which is probably 7 times out of 10, I just fix it, you know, and just move on. So that, that I would hopefully be considered a good property manager for you.

Probably will. And I think, and I think you bring up a good point when you ask what makes a bad one or a good one. Yeah, like in, in the gist I think those who are in the office and they're not heading out, those are typically— when I talk to property managers and they are in the car a lot and they're running, they're more hands-on and they know what's happening. That's usually differentiation.

Yes.

But it also leads to them being less responsive because they're in the car a lot.

Yeah.

So there is a price I'm willing to pay that I'd rather he's in the car, slow to respond versus the office and doesn't know.

Right.

And that's, you know, I've had both. So that's a very good distinction.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you're doing so much out of state that, I mean, you're relying on these people to be your boots on the ground, you know. And so, um, I, I always just tend to go for referrals from other investors. Do you have— is there weight in that? Are you getting referrals from other investors?

Uh, there is a way. That's one more factor for vetting. I think there's a— the major factor, like, for me, the most important one is What I call this interrogation, which because I sit two hours with a single person and I ask so many questions, which it really takes two hours and that takes time. And that's where I drill down to better understand all their process.

How scared are they? Like a guy from the south and he like hears you like on the phone with your accent and you're interrogating him with the light on. You're like, tell me. He's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It probably goes. I probably, you know, puts the fear in them so that they're willing to try.

I try, I try, I try. I hope it works. I know I can be intimidating a little bit. Well, I might as well use it.

I'm just thinking the guy in Birmingham that's just like, yeah, buddy, and you're just like, so tell me.

You should see the guy in Birmingham. He's, he's such a great guy. Like, he always— like, he's, he's more like what Joe is saying, right? He wants to do right by his owner. He always says, who cares? So I'm not going to make a little bit money here. Don't worry about it. There'll be plenty of opportunities. You know, as long as they're happy, we keep them happy. I keep you, Danny, happy. Yeah. All right. Let's let's not waste the energy over the small stuff. He's never sweating the small stuff.

Moving on from property management, except I do want to ask you one question, which is what a recommendation that I give to others, and I don't know if you do it or not. Maybe not because you've kind of done it up front, but I always tell. investors to always check on their property managers. So for example, if you get a bill for a water heater replacement, okay, and I always say, well, you know what, just call the tenant a week later and say, hey, how's that new water heater going? And boy, if they answer, what water heater? Oh, then you know you have a bad property manager.

I teach my owners, my investors to do what you just said and more.

Okay, good.

And I actually, right off the gate, I tell them, I don't care how you think about— you need to handle your, your properties, especially when you work with the property manager. Here's the classical fail points, the things you should be prepared for, what your mindset should be. You're the owner, you're not the property manager. Sometimes people think, oh, check on them, follow up on them, don't assume they're provided. I tell them, this is your This is your property. He's your employee. He's a manager, but you need to supervise, not micromanage. And if you don't supervise, it will be okay. If you supervise, it will be more than okay.

Right.

So it's really setting that tone with them. Good. With this is just one of those things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. I mean, and it's kind of a— it's kind of a thankless, uh, job. I mean, kind of like they're not making—

who wants to be property manager? Excuse me? No, no, no, no.

I agree totally.

It's a demanding job. You're always putting fires in a way. Yes, you're running between, you know, like a frustrated owner, frustrated tenant, or a house that it's frustrated, or— and you're always in between the rock and a hard place.

Yeah, I have several of my agents call me and go, Joe, I want to do property management. Well, number one, you can't because you have to be a broker and you have to have a trust account here in California. But number two, what do you expect? You're not going to get rich over it.

Yeah. You know, it's a very—

maybe if you have 100 doors or something, but, uh, you know, 1 or 2 doors, forget it.

Because of that, I actually have, with everything, with all the criticism that just, I just said, I have tons of respect to those people because it's so daunting.

Yeah.

You're always on the defensive. Everybody's, nobody's like, I like, sometimes I call my property managers just to check in and say, everything okay? Can I help you with it? Just to, so they not always, you know, someone is hammering at them. I tell my, My clients, every once in a while, when there's an issue and it's being resolved, say, I would appreciate if you call them, if you send a little gift, if you call and say thank you, email something. They always get the negative. Every once in a while, if you can send the positive, that will be very beneficial for you.

Nice.

But also they need to hear it.

Yeah.

Because they're always hearing bad stuff, people complaining. It's terrible.

That's good.

Yeah, that's good. It's a good way to end it on a positive note.

Okay.

Truths, more truths. What do we got?

There's one topic I get almost on a weekly basis now. I wonder if you guys are seeing that too from potential clients and clients is the high interest rates.

Crying about it. Nonstop crying.

Yes.

Yeah.

But there is a problem with that idea. I don't think the interest rates are high.

Oh, controversial.

Uh, interest rates are pretty traditional at this rate. I think this last—

Thank you for not being the only one who says it.

Yeah, I think this last generation has gotten spoiled with the 2.5%, 3% loans, you know, which are available out there, by the way. If you're looking to assume a loan, VA and FHA are both assumable. And the people that bought in, you know, 2020, '21, '22 Have those low rates that you can assume. Yeah, but yeah, no, I agree. And and for me, it all comes down to the bottom line dollars and cents. Am I making cash flow on this or not?

In other words, interest rate is one part of the equation. Correct. It's not the entire equation.

Correct.

Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. So for me, you know, I hear it all the time that it's high. I don't want to buy. I'm like, wait, it's high relatively to what?

Yeah.

First of all, is it relatively to zero? Very high. But there's no zero mortgages out there. Is it high relatively to what we got spoiled during COVID Yes. But that was a fluke. You know, the world gave us an opportunity. We were able to seize it or not. And that's it.

Yeah.

So is it relatively high to what we normally see, even 5% or 5.5%, which is more common? Probably not, unless you're really buying multimillion-dollar properties and every fraction is a lot of dollars.

Correct.

So high, it's part of the equation. And what is the rate? And if I'm buying a property with $100,000 worth of equity, and but I have to pay the penalty of a little bit higher rate, and so be it. It's one part of the equation. So bottom line is really important.

I would be more worried about adjustables. And yes, you know, they give you the teaser rate. Oh yeah, we can do 3%. And then a year later it goes up to 5 or 6%, which is what you could have locked it in at the beginning. Yeah, you know, but they, they, you know, I don't want to say they defraud consumers, but, you know, when you hear 3%, you go, oh, 3%, you know. But what they don't hear is just for a year.

Yeah, yeah, it's just for a year, you know. But if you have to predict, being an experienced investor and someone in this field for that you are Do you think there's a chance that we will see a reduction in interest rate in the future, even a little bit? Yeah, we're not looking for a promise.

Not now.

No, no. In 5 years, in 3 years, in 7 and a half years, I don't know.

We're trying to take care of your neighbors right now. Yeah, we're trying to take care of them right now.

As we should.

And if— yeah, and if he can just settle that, then I think it will settle down. I had predicted at the end of last year that we were going to be down in the 5s.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, but then your neighbors got, uh, you know, busy, busy, and so we've been spanking them. And, you know, just the— it's just, you know, what it is, what it is.

I mean, we can't do both at the same time. That's my question. Let's bring the rates down, let's spank them.

Because, yeah, come on, it's tied to the oil, and, and that's what really is driving things.

That's what they want you to think, Joe.

Okay. If you say so.

I think bring it down. Historically speaking, we'll probably have some sort of a decrease in, I don't know, 5 years. I don't know exactly. Who knows? Yeah, I don't know.

I need it sooner than 5 years, Danny, please.

I'm just, I'm throwing a number. I don't, I don't even know. But when that will happen, we can just refinance even if it's only to 5.5%, right? Not to 4.

Yeah, no, that's true.

Yeah.

And then we We're not marrying those mortgages.

You know, I'm seeing a lot of people that I think were told the rates were gonna come down with, you know, sooner, that are, um, they're, they're hurting right now. And so they're basically just giving their houses away because the payments are too high for them. And I, that's what I was trying to like come up with.

Opportunity.

Yeah, absolutely.

But you know what I hear a lot of as well over the years? Uh, I'll get phone calls from clients, Joe, I should have listened to you 5 years ago and I should have bought something. I go, no shit.

Yeah.

Hello.

That doesn't mean— it's like the prices have doubled now, Joe. I should, should I buy something? I go, we had this conversation 5 years ago. Do you wanna not buy something and call me 5 years from now as well? Yeah, they do. It's like, fuck.

You know what I tell them when I have those conversations? 'Cause I've, I've had those conversations. Usually sometimes it's even, you know, that's the, the, those who didn't do. And sometimes I have my own investors who bought a bunch and those are always like, I should have bought more. I should have bought sooner. Not, not that they bought, but they said they should have bought more. Should have bought more sooner. But for those who don't, you know, actually take action, I say at the end of the conversation, please do me a favor. Don't, let's not have this conversation again in 2 years or 3 years.

Yeah.

But sometimes we do.

Yeah, of course. And you know, when they call me, I get the most calls right before you file your taxes every year. Oh, because they sit down with their tax guy and their tax guy goes, dude, you need a write-off, right? You don't have a house? Oh, you should buy something.

I think this is maybe not one of those points I was— one of, I think, our conventional stupidity topics we're going to cover, but I think that For a lot of W-2 people who have probably the potential setting to call themselves real estate professionals or to somehow integrate the real estate into their life in order to legally, properly, you know, do better tax engineering legally.

Yes.

Then they are, they are so skeptic how much money they can save just by incorporating it, you know, properly. I've You know, I'm sure you do it. I've done it for many years, and and I'm shocked how how many how many times I see people that even my clients when I tell them, I tell them, and tell after four years he's starting he finally does one of those tax engineering again legal tax engineering, and he goes, "Oh my God, I should have listened to you earlier," right? Yeah, because I always tell my clients and some you know I tell people like it's not about. When you don't, when you find a way as a W-2 how to lower your taxes, uh, it's not about saving $50,000, $75,000, $100,000 on your taxes, whatever the number is. Is my question is, how long does it really take you to save, to save $75,000? And my clients are, many of them are Silicon Valley type of engineers, high earners, but they have kids, they live in expensive houses and have Let's just say in a not cheap lifestyle. And I asked him, even if you make between the both of you $400,000, $500,000, $600,000 before bonuses, how much time does it take you to save $75,000, $100,000? And that's when they usually—

you're right.

Because when they see the saving of $75,000 that they're not paying, they're like, whoa.

Yeah.

Every year.

Right.

Yeah.

That's a nice— that's a very good day in the office when they see those eyes popping.

2 words for your investors out there. there. Cost segregation.

Yes.

Like, if you're not taking advantage of cost segregation, you're missing the boat. Oh my God, you're missing the boat.

It's always, you know, like people think about ROI, they look at cash flow, appreciation, maybe equity from paying down the mortgage principal. Nobody calculates the tax saving that you can benefit. And it's important to say not everybody will be able to benefit from it. Yeah, but it's not impossible if you set it up properly to benefit from the cost segregation. Yes, you know, it's amazing. It's like a gift.

Yeah, I mean, the tax code is basically written to benefit real estate investors. You know, it's all in there. It's like, it's just, it's not like loopholes or anything. It's written right there for it.

And this is before we even talk about 1031 exchanges, which is another, right? Oh yeah, which is again mind-blowing. Like, okay, You got profits. Ah, no, no, it's okay. You can actually defer them. Wow. It's like the gift that keeps on giving. Absolutely. Yeah, it's amazing.

It's unbelievable.

Yeah.

All right. What else we got?

What else? Let's see. I did prepare some.

Thank you.

I want to talk about maybe 2 things. One is the using of agents, real estate agents. I think they're always— their role is misrepresented in most cases. And the other one is always buy with below market value. You familiar with that? Always, always buy with below market value. So I think I want to say about a real estate agent, I think there are people always— or not always, many times refer to them as paper pushers.

Right.

Which I think if you have an agent, a good agent is a resource for All right, let me give you. Let me give you an example. I bought a property that here in California a few years ago was not planning on, but the opportunity came from a real estate agent who knew me, and I bought this house with a tenant below market value because it was in the tenant. Now I come in with all my experience, and this guy has his own experience, and I want to do things a certain way, and this less than me experienced experienced agent, but. Less experienced than me in terms of transactions and volume and years. He keeps coming up and giving and giving me a pushback, not in a bad sense. He says, "I get you, Danny, but let me hear me out and then make a decision. Do your your decisions or listen to me and do what I'm suggesting." And on repeated situation, he convinced me to do rightfully so things in a certain way. So here I am, experienced guy. And this guy, so to speak, less experienced than me. I don't think so at all. And he was amazing because he helped me navigate that transaction in a certain way, and we succeeded with with everything. So for me, when you have a good agent, that is a resource for a knowledge protecting you, but also kind of steering you and navigating you through the challenges that will present themselves through the the transaction. So. If you see yourself, if you don't see the value of the agent, then you're probably not using the right agent. You gotta find someone that will help you navigate. Because I'm, at least for when in investment world, I don't remember having many transactions that did not present some challenges, not to mention major challenges. So important.

Well, that's good that you got a, a good and experienced real estate agent. 'Cause I met some investors, they were, they were doctors about 15 years ago. And they wanted to see a foreclosure. And remember back then, they were just giving them away, basically. And so he was standing outside the house, and my daughter and I were taking a look at it for a flip for us. And I get back out there, and you know me, I'm a friendly guy. So I said, you know, are you waiting to go in? And he said, yeah, I'm waiting for my agent. I go, you know, how long have you been waiting? Like an hour. And I go, do you want to go in? You know, I'll let you in.

Yeah.

So I let him in and, uh, got done. And then I gave him my business card and I says, you know, I don't want to interfere with you and your agent. He said, oh no, I just called him. I just wanted him to open the door. I said, well, you know, here's my card. If, you know, if you want to invest in something, let me know. So he called me 2 weeks later and, you know, the story went, uh, again, he's a doctor and he says, well, I have, I have a million dollars. I want to buy, you know, a house in cash. Uh, and then go from there. And I go, whoa, whoa, time out. Like, why would you buy a house in cash? I said, you could take, you know, the money, the million dollars you have, and you could buy like 5 of them right now, you know. Just get a loan on each, let your tenants pay off the loan over the years. Uh, so to this day, he has 15 doors now.

Nice.

Yeah, 15 doors.

Here's the difference.

By that conversation.

Exactly the point of A good agent versus an agent. Yes, you are. Instead of waiting for the client to to to do something and just follow their lead, I think it's as the agent role. Like, hang on a second. Let me present something else.

Right?

You can still do your own thing, but just think about it for a second. Maybe there's a better way, right? And many agents will just some agents will be this way, but a good agent needs to kind of step up and say, "Hey." Hear me out, like my guy. Hear me out. Do your own thing.

Yeah.

Yeah. So absolutely. Yeah.

Good.

Um, the other thing is, um, I hear a lot is always buy below market value, which I have to admit, I have a confession. I have many properties that I bought at market value.

How dare you?

And even a little bit above asking price. And then as much as I remember, they all did very well even though they were bought at market value or above asking price. So I don't think it's a must-do. Yes, I definitely want to buy below market value, but there's nothing wrong if a good property comes along and you have— especially if you plan to hold it long, many years, and you're buying it at market value. It could be a wonderful opportunity, wonderful transaction. So it's not—

Absolutely.

One of those always buy below market value, because I have seen people— I've— I just came from a visit back home, and this guy sat down with me and he said, 9 months I'm trying to invest, it's nothing happened. And like, okay, he's— because he was, he was taught to buy only below market value, and he's making those offers below market value. And guess what? He's aggressive on one hand, right? And nobody accepts their offers. Yeah. Shocking. Shocking.

You went back home? Yes. Wow. Doesn't that take a lot of guts right now?

What are you taking for this conversation? You went back home?

Yes. You went back home. I, you know, I—

I just got back 2 weeks ago.

I probably would not go to the Middle East right now.

Okay.

Yeah. But I mean, it's your home.

For sure. It's home. It's family. You grew up there. I grew up there. And I'm sure you know that things always, always appear to be worse than what they are.

Sure.

Right?

So you didn't have bombs going over your head?

We had last year when I was visiting in summer of 2025. We absolutely spent 12 days running 3 times a night to the shelter. To the shelter.

Oh.

Wow. Yeah, no, I'm gonna pass on that. I'll, I'll go on a cruise right off here of LA and enjoy myself.

I would have my friend who came to visit and she never been or have been when she was a child. And she came exactly at that time without knowing, of course. And we, we, we yanked her out of the hotel room and brought her home with us, with, uh, with my mom, uh, and, uh, for her. It was one of the—it's hard to say the best experiences of her life, but a really good experience. She had a time to spend with us under those circumstances. She was not intimidated. It felt you know it's weird. Listen, it's weird. I wouldn't say I'm used to it in Israel. You're used to it. But the crazy thing is that you can go to the shelter three times a night, wake up in the morning, go to work, and as everything is normal, there is a there is a there's an ability exactly this there's. This normalization of right of the situation. Wow! Which is crazy when we're talking about here. I I know that, but that's just how it is. So for them, it's over there. It's yeah. I didn't sleep well. When you say I didn't sleep well last night, yeah. It's a little bit different reason why they didn't sleep so well last night.

Yeah. Yeah. Unbelievable. Well, you're very brave.

Yeah. Doesn't feel this way. Just feel normal. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Exactly.

I don't go anywhere unless the Marines are right there behind me. You know? Yeah. If I know the Marines are going to come get me if I get in trouble, I'm good. I can go to your country, but they could probably extract you out of like, I don't know that I would go to Cuba right now.

No. Yeah. Worst places you can visit and the Marine will have a tough time.

Oh yeah. Israel is not one of them. Right, right, right.

No, no. Yeah. No, no. I didn't mean Israel, but I'm not going to go to Iran either.

So you're ready to go to Israel because the Marines are already there. That's so you're safe, man.

True. They're probably there.

We can book a flight right after this this podcast. If not the Israeli army, no mobile zone, no mobile homes in Israel. So but they do have surfing.

Hmm.

They do have surfing. Surfing. Yes, a lot.

Did you say no mobile homes? Not really. You know who else doesn't have mobile homes? Hawaii.

Who? Hawaii. Oh right.

Yeah, but they do have surfing, so that's always surfing, no problem.

But I think there's not a lot of wind in Israel, is there?

It's like enough wind for the beach. There's enough wind usually for windsurfing and for waves. Yeah, it's not Hawaiian waves, it's not, uh, Sri Lanka waves or Portugal waves, but it's not like the middle of the country.

There's a couple Israelis on there. Hurricane Alley, the competition. Yeah, yeah, the US Open. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, I mean, if they got beach, they got waves. Yes, they're surfing.

And, and by the way, it's warm water, warm, not cold. Yeah, so you don't need no suits needed, just, yeah, minimum. That's nice, that's nice. Almost year-round, so winter will be a little bit chilly but not even close to this. So you can surf in the winter, maybe in the winter you'll put that swimsuit just to be—

All right, we're going, Joe. Yep, let's do it. Danny will be our guy. Again, we're getting off topic.

But yeah, you had to serve in the military, correct? Yes. And how long was that?

3 years.

Wow. Yeah, I think they should do that here.

Absolutely.

Yeah, you know, they do it in Mexico. You're required to. Yeah. And if you don't, then you don't get, uh, insurance.

Oh yeah, that's good.

Yeah, medical insurance.

We need to make the bar a little higher for what people need to do to get like benefits around here.

I think so. Yeah. I don't know, maybe. You want to run for president? Oh God, no. Start out for mayor. Mayor of Dana Point.

Governor.

Yeah.

Governor Homs.

No, I'm working in the shadows.

Yeah. Okay, nice.

Maybe I'll, um, give to some campaigns, but that's about it, you know. That's probably it. Yeah. But, uh, anyway, what were we talking about?

I think we were talking about the, um, uh, not always needing to buy below. It doesn't have to be below market value.

Well, and you know, typically when you're buying below, you are gonna do the value add. If you're buying a property for long-term and it's already turnkey and you're gonna put a renter in there. Yeah, that's a great point. Exactly. Plus you got your spreadsheets, plug it in. If the numbers are there, then don't get emotional and don't live on, live and die on these. Exactly. Like, you know, idioms that people, Just spout. Um, one that I've been seeing tossed around as far as like they might be putting it to bed is the 1% rule.

Oh yeah, I was thinking in my mind you would bring this one up.

Yeah. Oh my God, because that was big. Everyone, the 1% rule. What now? Even BiggerPockets is like, well, it might not work like how we thought it was.

I, I have a kind of a funny story about that. So maybe we'll just say the 1% rule for if any if someone doesn't know means the 1% rule per month in rent. So if the property costs $100,000, you would want it to rent for $1,000 a month. That's the 1% rule. Four years ago, I'm in Israel in one of my visits. I believe it's four years ago, giving this talk to an Israeli group of investors, and I'm in a very nonchalant way saying, "And by the way, I don't know if you anybody's using the 1% rule." I don't know them well. But if you're using the one percent rule, it doesn't work. So just forget about it. And the entire room blows up. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, what? I just stepped on something. I was like, what just happened here? Like I was just making a comment, and all of a sudden I said, wait, wait, handle a second. Oh yeah. We gotta tackle this point. I guess I hit a. I struck a nerve, right? Big time. Yeah. And I asked, why are you so like reacting this way? They didn't react like this to anything. The same way, and multiple people say we are in this real estate investing school here in Israel, and they always teach us about the one percent rule. And we all the entire room operates in a one percent rule. And I'm like, oh my God! Be ready, guys. I'm going to ruin it for you a little bit. Wow!

And that was four years ago. Yes. Okay. So that's out the door.

That's out the window. Yeah, I, I think it's out the window before COVID for sure. Yep. Um, it— even before COVID I think I would see it on the lower-end properties, right? Right. Maybe that would work, but then it's very artificial because with the lower-end properties you get to have more challenges, issues, vacancies, repairs. So it doesn't really matter. And I think everybody— if anyone is using the 1% rule, whether it works or not, That's such a superficial number because like Joe said earlier, I don't care if it's 2%, 1%, half a percent. I care about the bottom line. I don't go to the supermarket with a 1% rule. I go with the cash, right? So if I'm in a market that's generating, let's just say instead of 1%, 0.75, and I have those markets, and this is something that I've seen many years ago when I entered first time I went 12 years ago, I think 12 years ago, I went and I explored if, if the greater Nashville, Metro Nashville, is a good area for me to go into. And I went with the 1% rule, and guess what? None, not a single property worked with the 1% rule. I'm like, okay, I'm out, right? What an idiot, me. Sure. A year later, I come back, I said, this time I'm going to take sample. I took 9 properties in different areas, and I did a Full underwriting like I always do, and I'm like, "Wait, what's happening here?" It's across the board the 0.75% instead of 1% rule, and they're cash flowing better than the 1% in Texas. Why? Property taxes, insurance, etc. Right? So you can have more than 1%, right? Resulting in less than less cash flow versus the one with the less than 1%. So who cares about the 1%? And a lot of people use that kind of, you know, test, and it's the wrong, wrong, wrong test. They go— I hear that a lot, like investors, like, let's go to Ohio, it's great 1% area, right? But the property taxes are very, very high. Have you thought about that? Oh, I didn't know that. Really? How about doing some due diligence first? It's crazy.

Yeah, so the 1% rule It's time to just put it to bed, folks.

Yes. Thank you, Alex.

It's done. Sorry.

Let's have a ceremony next month.

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's, it's, I think those things are created to help the most basic person when they're getting into it. But then, gosh, that one really took off, you know, for whatever reason. 'Cause it's like, oh, 1% rule. Yeah. Like you said, and then property taxes. It's—

I dropped that rule around that Nashville time. So more than 10 years ago, I said, that's just, Out of the window.

There's too many factors to just live on one sort of, you know, data point.

Yep, exactly. Um, yeah.

And then there— yeah, there were some people that were like, I'm getting the 2%. They're like, I'm in the worst parts of Detroit, you know.

Exactly. Yeah, there is a trade-off. There's got to be a trade-off. You can still get those percentages, but is it really worth it? I don't know.

I, I carry my concealed carry permit with me at all times in Detroit.

Yeah. Oh yeah. No, maybe I should.

Joe says he doesn't go to Detroit without the Marines. That's right.

Yeah, that's right. It's probably, yeah, one area just like that.

Yeah, from the Middle East to, uh, yeah, from the middle of Michigan, right? Yeah.

Okay, do we got any more on your list?

Uh, let's see, maybe I have one, one last. Okay, and that's actually going to be Ooh, that may be a very interesting conversation in this room. Oh boy, flips.

Oh, do you watch your mouth?

Flips versus long term.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or maybe the idea that flips are the best way to generate cash.

Yeah.

Or not. Yeah. I have my take on from someone who did almost 100 flips, which I think it's less than what you guys have did. Uh, I have a little bit— I have, I have my own Set of ideas behind it, but I'm talking to people who are.

Go ahead, give us your ideas.

Okay, so I've done I've flipped houses. I ended my kind of decided to end my flipping career around 2018. I've done about 100 of them. Out of those 100, I think 60s were. Pretty good, like really nice. I think I'd say 10-ish, no, 15-ish were amazing, amazing. And then the, the rest were anywhere from terrible to unbelievably horrible. Okay, I lost a lot of money too. I lost a lot of money with, with the last 10. Um, what that made me realize is that first of all When typically when flipping means usually, well, the great flips were bought at the auction. We went back right after the crash. We came in, we cleaned on a busy day, do touch-ups, and we sell it for unbelievable. So that's not even, no hammers were lifted, right? We had maybe 40 of those.

Nice.

No wonder that was easy. The minute we introduced that function that called contractors, that's where the problem started.

Yeah, it's still the same. Still the same.

Yes. So first of all, it's very enjoyable to me as a person to deal with this kind of sector. Okay. And I have never seen any sector in my life that has the following. And I'm sure you've never had that. So many cars, vans burned, stolen, accidents. And so many family members are with cancer. Alex is like, you've never Heard of it, right?

Yeah. Oh yeah, it's a different family member every time. I have a list at home that they're like, I did my great aunt, I did my uncle, I did my—

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's amazing. It's amazing. So that should tell you something right there. So first of all, dealing— now the more, the bigger the potential profit, the more complicated the renovation. Exponentially the complexity, the time, the people stepping over permits and all of that. It's, you know, you, you Going from a $40,000 renovation to $80,000 in my world of you know it's doubled the budget quadrupled the trouble the the complexity so right right there I just want to be done with that kind of sector but as an investor I found that if everything goes well and you flip and you make a profit. In most cases, Uncle Sam comes in, and Uncle Sam is not really the book of flipping. The IRS book of flipping does not include cost segregation; does not include 1031 exchanges. And all of a sudden, a lot of that effort and money and sweat and stress goes out to someone else. So yes, you can make money, but I rather. What I came out with from the flipping experience from that aspect was I prefer to maybe buy, fix a little bit, hold it for one year, at least for one year, maybe more. I don't usually do that. I call it the long flip. And then not renovate at the beginning, renovate at the end and sell. Otherwise, the renovation is going to be tarnished during the tenant period. And this way, you don't get Grade A tenants in the places? Even greater tenants, you know, it's just for regular usage. Uh, by the way, I go to areas that I have good tenants, B, A, B, maybe C area. So I get to get the good tenants. Uh, but when I say trash, I don't mean trash the place, just use the place. And it just looks worn down after 1 year with the paint and everything, not as nice as when it's fresh, right? So that's what I mean. Yeah. So I, if I want to do a flip, I'm going to do more the long flip, then I can benefit from the taxation. You know, but I don't usually do that. Maybe the BRRRR system, I think works well. I think those 2, if you really want to flip, you might as well do it with a long flip or a BRRRR and not necessarily a traditional flip in the entire sense of the word. And I know I'm talking to 2 guys that May not agree with me, and that's okay.

No, I definitely think there's truth to that. Sure. And, you know, flipping for us is just one aspect of the business. You know, ultimately I think it's the buy and the hold that, that you get the wealth. Yeah. You know, one can make you rich, one can make you wealthy. Yes. And so what I, I see a lot of people will take their funds and then, you know, put it into long-term holds and things like that. But for me, it's fun. And I think you have to love it or else, yeah, you'll go crazy.

Yeah.

For me, I love seeing the transformation. It's just good skills to have, I think. And then, I mean, you got so many— that experience of 100 rehabs under your belt, you took all that and then now you're using it to Crack the whip on some property managers.

That's not the reason I'm cracking the whip, because I have I've done in my in the long term I've done close to or over five thousand. Sure.

So that's way more than right right right right. Yeah. No absolutely.

That's the that's the cracking the whip is from those many thousands.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah. No I mean um yeah it's just what it's just one exit strategy and true out here. You can make a pretty penny, I think. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I guess, let's, so let's talk about regionally Southern California, making anything a long-term play. It can be tough.

Very tough.

So if you were going to try and do something out here, obviously you're going to get the appreciation. So yeah, I wonder like, what is your move to tackle Southern California if you want to invest? Move. No, it's got— you gotta do it. What would Danny say? Move.

No, thank you, thank you.

Well, no, I mean, okay, okay, I can get 100 houses in Birmingham and the appreciation is going to go up nothing, you know what I mean? So that's a cash flow play. Says me, says history. Okay, I would say so. Let's go.

What I'm hearing is Know how to buy or use. First of all, we always have to talk about the timing we are in, right? So right now, and this is also tied into you know the other the flip side of the the interest rate that we talked about earlier is that a lot of homeowners are on the sideline, right? Not as engaging because the economy, AI, you know, you know the Middle East, whatever. But it's it's you know, but what that actually means opportunities. Right, so right now, I don't know what how you're experiencing it, but I get more when I try to do subject to assumption mortgages. People answer to me. Two years ago, nobody would return anything. Now, sometimes it's a no. Sometimes let me check with the with the seller. Sometimes like we're open to it. What do you suggest? My right. So when when you you're thinking about Birmingham. From the— let's call it properties on the shelf, which is fine. Those are the at-market value we talked about before. Great properties, great starting point. Maybe not with the high appreciation we're getting here, but it's not way behind. Okay. I'm thinking this one on the shelf, if I can do it with a subject-to assumption below market value by 10%, 15%, 20%, I'm already building in You know that equity. I'm looking for the better starting point, which current times are providing. That's even interest to me, right? So yeah, so and that's true, by the way. It's not just Birmingham, right? Right, right. That's true here as well. Should be true here as well. I just don't operate in this area, right? But anything that we can do to hedge on one hand or get a better head start absolutely with equity, then all I'm already getting some equity from day one. Yeah. Oh, I think that's amazing. I bought a property in outside of Phoenix a year and a half ago, not even a year and a half ago. Um, $90,000 below market value when we did the analysis. The appraisal came at closing, $110,000. Love that. I think I spent not even, I'm not even at $10,000 in reno. Another, even another, just cleaning stuff up. Maybe $6,000 right now of renovation. Yeah. Um, so That's great. Like, you know, is, that's not something I, I see every day, but that just shows those opportunities. Oh, absolutely. This is not a million-dollar home purchased for $900,000. That's, this is a $470,000 purchased for $360,000. Yeah. So that's, uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm just, I'm just thinking, I mean, I'm looking at what these sellers paid for in the house, these, these houses, even these mobile homes. Um, they paid like $2,000 in the year 2003. And now I'm buying it for like $350,000. Yeah. You know, now. So I, I'm, I'm just saying that appreciation, like something that we get today here, even if it's $600,000 in 10, 20 years. Yeah. That's gonna be insane.

No doubt. Or sorry, not no doubt. Probably. Yeah. But the challenge is the carry, you know, the carry of the, the cash flow, the challenge of the cash flow. Yes. Yes. Yes. Or the significant, sometimes a high down payment that you would need. Absolutely. Throughout California before we're talking about, um, challenges with tenants if they— if you get to that point.

And that, that's a good segue. Um, I have 3 videos that I have curated that I want to show you right now. Okay. Okay. Check this out. And that is the perfect segue.

We're seeing it behind you.

Imagine having trespassers take over your home, then demand $30,000 to leave. That's what a ranch owner in unincorporated El Cajon says happened to her. The Airbnb host says she was so desperate for help she hired a company called the Squatter Squad. Investigative reporter Austin Grabish shares the warning the professional squatter removers have for homeowners.

The whole situation just crushed me. I reached a point where I had no idea what to do and felt extremely helpless and beyond frustrated. Had you ever met or seen these people before?

No. Come to the door, Janssen!

With guns drawn, deputies move in to get 2 squatters out.

So they had blocked the doors with heavy furniture like a piano and a big armoire. Bringing a farm, bringing that whole experience to my grandchildren was my entire motivation for buying this place.

Grace Young says the squatters took over her family's 6-acre ranch in June. Young had been renting the home on her property in unincorporated El Cajon to an Airbnb guest. The day after that vacation renter left, 3 squatters moved in.

They manufactured some narrative that they had had the right to be in the home because an Airbnb guest had given them that permission, had rented to them.

Teresa Huesa, this is the San Diego Sheriff's Office. Please come out with nothing in your hands.

Young called the sheriff's office and got an answer she never expected.

A junior officer came over. I was on the speakerphone and said, okay, well, we're letting him go. It's a civil matter.

Those 4 words, it's a civil matter, are exactly what experts say squatters count on to game the system. In many cases, squatters know that law enforcement is reluctant to determine if an occupant is a tenant or a trespasser. So instead of removing someone on the spot, police often leave it to a judge to decide. And with some of the strongest tenant protections in the country, California landlords must follow strict rules when evicting someone.

So I think we know where all this goes and you hear about it all the time.

Yes.

So that can play into kind of what you're saying as well.

Correct.

Yeah. Where you're in what, I mean, we call it blue states, red states, things like that. But even some red states have more liberal policies. But is that something that you look at when you're doing your due diligence?

I don't know how is what happens that I have never ever ever. I'm talking about thousands of properties, not a single time had how do you call it? Squatter. A squatter. I I just I could tell you how we we select areas and properties and and maybe that's the the the the define that's the criteria how we reduce the chances. Yep. But I, at the same time, I say that's the only thing I can justify that would prevent it. But I'm not saying like it rarely happens. Not a single time we had a squatter and we usually go to A, B, and C neighborhoods, what's called, right? Sure. So we avoid certain areas. Is this a reason why someone, let me put it this way. I live in Irvine, right? You guys are local. Every time I cross the 55 from Irvine to Santa Ana, I feel like I'm going to another— I don't want to say country, but the 55.

You are.

Yeah. You are.

Yeah. I mean, it's just that road. On one side, it looks one thing. You just cross the highway to the other. It's a different— it's not terrible, but it's just— right now. Why would, you know, let's just say criminal enterprises tend to not cross that road that much as I would expect? It just doesn't happen as much. I don't know why. I have no explanation for it. In my mind, what's another mile for me to go or 2 miles down the road to a more wealthy— I have no idea why that's the case. But there is a difference in when you look at the crime map, there is some difference. Yeah, maybe me going to those neighborhoods and the way they're manicured and the way they're— maybe the neighbors are nosy. Yeah, it could be, right? Yeah, that is— it's kind of preventive. Yeah, so, but I'm just— so I'm, I'm not really waiting for it. I'm just kind of surprised it never happened before. Absolutely.

Well, and let's plug our meetup that we're going to have at the end of, um, August, and Danny's going to be the speaker there. And you did a very good breakdown of You know, what you are looking for. Like you, you, you were like, I want to be in the neighborhoods where it's like the family with the dog.

Of course.

And the, you know, and the squatters, they can't hide in the shadows as good there because, you know, everyone's got cameras, they got lights. Maybe, maybe there's more protection because there's more kids. I, it's hard to put, to nail down. But I do think that your property and location selection has a very big part.

It's like a natural filtration, filtration system. I can't explain it. That's why also we don't have a lot of evictions. We do, but it's typically from not the failure by the tenant in the sense of bad tenant. Yeah, it's just life happens, right? And then many times we actually try to work with them, say we get it, just move on and move out and we will just get the house back. But and then they do want— yeah, many, many do, by the way. Many say dignity, something happened. Yeah, they communicate. We work with them. They Break the lease and move out, but everybody prevent eviction. Right? The whole process for them and for us.

Correct. No, absolutely. I mean, as as you know, opposed to I do a lot of work in Hemet. Okay. I'm I'm I'm gonna just say that right now. Okay. I have a rule that when the when it's getting dark, you get out of there. You don't stay there. Yeah, because it's like freaks come out at night type of situation. Yeah. And it's it's it turns into a completely different property.

that in an area that maybe there— I'm sure there is, but the very few that are— get out before dark. Yeah, a lot of our property managers are women and they won't be able to walk those areas. Oh yeah, it feels safe, as they should.

And then, yeah, exactly. And in the long-term situation, I mean, but it's not like this place even looked that bad, but there's something that is happening in California, um, with like the social media. I don't know what it is, but people are, are fanning the flames of of just going into people's houses and trying to take them over and all that kind of stuff.

So you're coming to Birmingham, I hear.

I tried.

I don't need to convince you. You're convincing yourself.

No, no, no. I tried. I did have—

I told you it's really beautiful.

Yeah.

It is. It is.

Yeah. No, I did try a property in Birmingham, but it didn't go the way that I wanted. But that's not on anybody except me. So yeah, that's how I have to learn, it seems like, Danny. I got to run into the wall, as Joe says, And then, um, then I let him too.

Exactly. You have to.

Yes, you gotta learn. Exactly. Okay, I could tell him and teach him, but you have to, you know, there's so much into the wall. That's a lesson to a new dad. Yeah, exactly. You gotta let them fail. Actually, the more you let them fail, right, the better. Yeah, yeah. It builds character. Yeah. It shows that not everything is easy. Exactly. And it kind of starts, you know, so that's really important.

The problem is he's got a lot of women around him right now and they're not letting him Him do— they're— it's, it's— they're, they're protecting him from everything right now.

So I think he needs a dad more present and telling the women what not to do.

Exactly. Thank you.

But the women are yelling at you as well for the things that you're doing.

Exactly. Yeah, he's not allowed to be spoiled yet.

I know, that's what I'm trying to say. Thank you. These guys get it. Um, right on. Well, thank you so much for coming today. That was a pleasure. Yeah, that was, that was— it's always informative. It's always a fun time.

Thank you, guys.

And you So much fun that we're gonna have you live in person so everyone can enjoy your company and you can drop some knowledge on your, you know, thousands and thousands of properties that you've—

Gladly.

You know, come across. So—

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, we will see you guys at the end of August. We'll again, you know, send out the blast through meetup.com. Thank you so much for joining us today, and we'll see you on the next one.

If you want some more advice on real estate investing, reach out to us one-on-one.