Dr. Robert Cialdini LIVE on I Love Marketing Meet Up Group (April 21st, 2021)

Elfmember.com Eugenius Network members who have friends who aren't quite at the million dollar level yet. If you want to introduce them to elfmember.com you're going to be amazed at the at what we're doing in that group and how cheap it is. So anyway, okay, let's see here. We're going to start in just a minute and let me see if we can say hello to one more person before we start. Schwa we have to. You're holding up the. Hold up that book Persuasion. Oh my gosh, you're kind of disappearing. But we see the book and that's more important. We see a bunch of others. It's so good to see everyone. Before we start, I just want to say that Joe Polish is on sabbatical this year. I personally and we miss Joe. We love Joe. Joe introduced me to Robert Cialdini and Dean Jackson years ago and he's introduced me to a lot of really cool people. But I know Dr. Cialdini. Joe was speaking with you some time ago and talking about with you and Bobette and being a guest on this. So we're just delighted that you're with us. I mean it's the godfather of influence. So I think it's time to start top of the hour or bottom of the hour, however you want to put that. So I'm going to go ahead and formally introduce our guest. Dr. Robert Cialdini is the pioneer in the psychology of influence developing, conducting and publishing award winning scientific research. That wasn't enough for him. It was his ability to translate the science into meaningful applications that made his universal principles of persuasion so accessible to us all. And it was his fervor for the ethical use of these universal principles that made us all breathe a sigh of relief. Who knew that this traditionally trained academic would end up being a leader in this field? Actually in many ways he created this field. Who knew that he would develop and popularize a field that is now part of marketing, leadership, sales, digital communication and even government policy. Looking back now, we're not surprised. Because of his highly respected research, Dr. Cialdini has earned many honors and accolades including membership in the National Academy of Sciences and the American Academy of Arts and Science. Perhaps if we had looked back on his life just a little bit, we would have seen a glimpse of what was to come. Some of us are only learning about this today. Please welcome, now listen to this carefully. The Tippecanoe kindergarten skipping champion, Bobby Cialdini. Welcome.

Well, how do you talk Tippecanoe?

Thank You, Tippecanoe? Yes. That was my kindergarten school and I was very proud of rising to the surface of the skipping crew there.

The skipping crew.

I love it.

Did you have special uniforms?

No, but we did. I did get an award that I still have.

That's awesome. I love that. Well, welcome. I am super excited that we get to spend our time together again. I was reflecting before we, before we got started officially that this, this summer will be 25 years since we first connected. And I can't tell you what an impact Influence has had in my life. I mean, it's been one of the foundational books that I've used to build on. You know, in everything that I do, I use all of those. The Principles of Influence. It's one of the three books that I recommend to people if of everything that I've read. If you're going to get started in marketing this, it's in the number top three books that I recommend constantly for people. So I'm excited that we're going to talk about the new and expanded version of this. So you know what?

I certainly appreciate those kind words coming from you, Dean. That's golden.

Well, I'll tell you something. This is an interesting thing. We talk about 25 years that like it was yesterday, because it feels like yesterday that we were at the Wigwam having dinner with Evan and Bobette and hanging out. But I had an experience a couple of summers ago. I had somebody come to one of my breakthrough blueprint events. And she was 30 years old, bright, young, go getter marketer. And in that moment I realized just she was born in 1990 is when she was born. And I thought, wow, we've got a whole new generation. I bet a lot of the people that are listening, that's even on the Zoom, here are 30 ish type of people who weren't around when Influence first came out. So I think it'd be good if you could maybe tell a little bit about the background of your work because it's been kind of defined your life's work since then.

Well, as your very gracious introduction suggested, I started out as a traditionally trained and traditionally practicing academic doing research on my college campus with college sophomores pretty much as the students in laboratory settings and recognize there was something missing there. And I needed to get away from those academic constraints into the environment where the influence wars are being waged every day. After all, we're always either sending out influence appeals or receiving influence appeals of one sort or another every day. And there are certain people who know how to do this because their economic livelihoods depend on using the influence process properly and effectively. And it seemed to me that those professions, sales, management, recruiting, fundraising, marketing, advertising and so on, those were the people who really knew what I should be focusing my, my, my thinking on. So I began to invit. I began to infiltrate their training programs with disguised identity, disguised intent to learn what they had done that produced yes from people regularly. And I spent two and a half years in that undercover activity to learn something beyond the college campus where I had been studying this process.

I remember you saying how it was initially because you wanted to learn about these things, not to be a practitioner of them, but to protect yourself from them or to help people protect themselves from the illicit use of those principles so that people could recognize them.

Exactly. Recognize, resist, deflect, defend. But it turned out soon after the publication of Influence, that a lot of people were interested, besides that, in harnessing the process in ethical ways, in morally responsible ways, to move people into positive choices that they could make that they were hesitant to make. They were sitting on the fence, they just were dithering. They weren't thinking through what exactly the costs and benefits might be. The merits of one's case were simply not being presented to them in an optimal way. And so they wanted to know about optimization of the persuasion process for that reason as well. Mm.

That's what I found when I first started studying it. Like I've always told you from the moment I read your book, just the understanding was like having a pair of 3D glasses all of a sudden that you see the mechanisms that are at work and why things are turning out the way they are. And this kind of underlying understanding of influence has really helped me in applying the marketing principles then that you can overlay on top of that, when you've got an understanding of why people are reacting, how our brains are responding to things. And one of the greatest phrases that you used in the description is that when these are presented, they trigger this click were pattern that it's just, it's almost like an autopilot thing. When somebody is presented with this, with into the right circumstances, one of the elements of influence. It's almost like instinctual. We can't even. It's not a. They're not reasoning or thinking it. It's just happening automatically.

And you know that the, the thing about the click that you were talking about, the thing that triggers their response, it can be a very small thing. I like the metaphor of a light switch. Suppose you were in charge of Lighting a stadium for a night match or game of some sort or another, and you're down in the bowels of the stadium and there's a. There's a switch that you just flick and suddenly everything is illuminated. All of a sudden things are possible that weren't possible before. It didn't take a lot of strength or effort or time on your part. You just had to know how to locate that switch. And then it's just a little bit of effort. And all of the power that's stored in. In the. In the power system of that. Of that arena flows because of that small thing you did. It goes against the rule of proportionality. There's a belief that in order to get big effects, we need to do big things to change people in substantial ways. It's just not true. There are big power sources inside people, and our job is to locate the switch that flicks them on that then drives their behavior.

Now I'm going to ask you. So when Joe Polish and I did our first I Love Marketing conference, it's all about our eight profit activators. And he asked me a question that was just funny because he asked me, do I know all the eight profit activators? Like, without looking. And I'm going to ask you, just for fun of the. To just maybe quickly name what the six elements of influence are so we can set the context for what we're talking about here.

Sure. Would you prefer that I just label them and how they work or give an example?

Let's just kind of name them first and then we'll pick kind of. And go through some of them. Because we've got so many stories. Yeah.

So the first is the rule of reciprocation. People want to say yes to those people who have given to them first. Done a favor, a service provided a gift. People want to give back. So you go into a room where you want to be more influential. Your first question should not be, who can help me here? It should be, whom can I help here? Whose circumstances can I elevate? Whose outcomes can I increase? They will stand on the balls of their feet wanting to do the same for you. Next principle is liking. Nobody's surprised that we prefer to say yes to those we like. But there are two small things we can do that substantially enhance the feeling of rapport that people feel with us. And one is to point out genuine similarities. And the other is to give gentle, genuine compliments or praise as warranted. Next principle is social proof. This is a term, by the way, that's Used, we coined it back in when with the first edition of Influence. Social proof didn't exist before. I'm so glad because I was thinking of using people proof. Right. What's happened with social media now? Yeah, think about social media. I'm so glad that I use the term social media. Social proof, where the, the fact that a lot of other people are doing something, especially people like us, is the proof that we should do it too. It's not fact based proof, it's not scientific proof, it's not logical proof, it's social proof. So that's the other thing. Simply letting people know of the others who are around them, like them, them who are choosing or have been choosing. Our recommended step forward.

Robert, what year before you say, what year did the first book come out?

The first book came out in 1984.

Okay. So this was well before anything with the Internet. I mean it was really okay because I was turned onto it in 1996, as you know. So it already been out for 12 years. But that was just at the very beginning of the Internet. So I'm sorry for interrupting your train, but.

No, no, that's exactly the people say to me, you know, Bobby, your book is called the Bible of Digital Commerce. There wasn't digital commerce. How did you see, how, how did you foresee this? How did you look forward and see this 40 years, 35 years later?

Yeah.

And it was by looking back, right, at what were the factors that have always driven behavior in our species. Look back at the evidence to be able to predict how we as a species will behave in the future.

Yeah, love it. Okay, so social proof then. Carry on.

Next is authority. If we're uncertain about something, one way to reduce our uncertainty is to see what the experts are saying and what they are doing. And if we have expertise, we have to be sure that the people who we're trying to move in our direction are properly informed of that before we ever try to influence them. Next principle is the principle of scarcity. Right. People want more of those things they can have less of. It's just the way we are.

Right.

So things that are rare, scarce, dwindling in availability, if we properly inform people of those characteristics, they get a little crazy.

You what? That's the absolute truth. I've got some. I'm, I'm hyper vigilant of what's going on in my world because I'm aware of all of these things. And so I always kind of observe the, the situations that I get into and I see how influences that work in My life too. And I'll share a couple of stories with you as we go on, but please continue. Yeah.

Then the next principle is commitment and consistency. People want to be consistent with what they have already said or done, especially in our presence, especially publicly. They don't want to say, say one thing, do another, or misspeak by saying one thing and then contradicting it the next time. They want to be congruent with what they have already made a commitment to. So asking people to take very small steps in our direction causes them to be much more likely to want to continue to take steps, even outsized steps, in our direction in the future. And then finally, there's a new principle.

That's what I was going to ask you about. So now this is exciting that you got to the point that's masterwork of the six. And then in revisiting now, you've discovered a final. A new one.

Yes. And I'm calling it Unity.

I love that.

But it has to do really with membership in a particular group.

Yes. Right.

A tribe, some in group that defines us. And if a communicator can arrange for us to see him or her as inside that group, one of us.

Yes.

All the influence barriers come down for that communicator. We say yes to those people, we cooperate with them, we believe them, we trust them. Those people who are of us become people who we want to favor and follow.

I've been wondering about this. That our capacity now for that, our us group, for years we would talk about, and still do about Robin Dunbar's work, about your 150 Dunbar's number, that you can have the relationship with 150 people. And I'm wondering now, because our world has sort of expanded, our access to people has expanded through our digital capabilities. Like we can be in a room with hundreds of people here. And you're in your office, I'm in mine. And we're. But we're all part of us here. Whether our capacity to kind of consider ourselves part of a group or bonded within us is expanded because of our digital reach. Yeah. What have you. Right.

The technology has allowed us to have a connection, even as you say, bonding people we would never otherwise have contact with because we share an interest or an identity with that individual. We're in a chat group with that person or a product, you know, group.

Facebook group or a forum or a membership.

And we feel one of them. We're of them. And that is remarkable. I'll give you a couple of examples how it doesn't have to be small at all. It can be sizable. So, for example, there was a great study that was done on a college campus. This was in technology. But researchers had a young woman, looked like a student, asking students who were walking by if they would make a contribution to the United Way. And she was getting some kind of response. If she preceded that request with one statement, she increased by 250% the number of contributions. The sentence was, I'm a student here too. And now 250% greater compliance.

Wow. Isn't that something you just like you have to when you say things like that. When I read your. Your book, I read your both persuasion and. And influence multiple, multiple times. I keep them by my. In my office and in my library as readers that I kind of will open up and just get a. Get a study, read one of the things and then kind of meditate on it. Like you're saying when you say things like that. I have to just let that sink in for a second because if you put a number to it that if she's sitting out there for any number of time and without that sentence, she's sitting there and she's able to raise $100, let's say, and then in the same amount of time by adding this little phrase, she's able to raise $250.

Right.

It's pretty amazing.

Yeah. What I like about it is that it shows us how small the change can be to flip on that big power source inside people. In this case, the power source is, oh, I am of this. This person is of us. One of us With. With four words.

And you don't even. Yeah, it doesn't even. It wouldn't. You wouldn't think that that would be the. The biggest shift.

Right? The. The power is not in us. It's what we have turned on in the recipient of our message. What are the big power sources that exist that drive their behavior? And this unity is one of them. I'll give you a personal example.

Okay. Yeah.

A few months ago, I read a newspaper. I said I grew up in Wisconsin, right. Where the National Football League home team has always been the Green Bay Packers. So I've been an avid packer fan for all my life. So I read in this newspaper article that the two celebrities, Justin Timberlake and Lil Wayne, both musical artists.

Right.

Are also avid packer fans.

Dean.

I immediately appreciated their music more and wish them greater success.

There we go. That's it.

So it can be many, many people. I would never have had an interaction with Justin Timberlake or little easy. But one thing to win now because they're of me.

That's so funny. I could just see Wayne blaring out of your office on campus there.

That's great.

Your homeboy, he's one from. He's your Wisconsin brother. That's so great.

He didn't even grow up in Wisconsin. He just likes the packers like me.

Yeah, but that's so funny that. That's a. You know, you think about that as soon as you talk about this in Influence to the uniform that the home team, it's us that you're that belonging. But then we're only when we're winning. But when we lose, it's. They lost. But we want to distance ourselves from the losses. But we won and they lost. Yeah, that's the. So that's really interesting.

One way you can get people to want to be at one with you is to show them your success. They want to be of people of attainment so they can share that identity.

That's really. That's something that's interesting. One of the ways that I've used that in marketing, in presenting information is we'll often I go away from testimonials, like calling them testimonials and shape it more towards. I coined a phrase, Bob, called contentimonials. And what I do is present things as field reports from somebody sharing the result that they got in the field of deploying this method or this. This principle or whatever they've done and coming back to report on their success with that is much more valuable than a testimonial of them saying, oh, I tried it. It was great. I really like Bob. He's wonderful. Which are not really adding any value to people. I like to frame it so you can get this. And if somebody's like, you know, they see somebody like them getting a result using this method, they feel like, well, that guy did it. I could. I want to be a field report. I could do this too, man.

Great minds work together. Because we've done that in the various editions of Influence through the years. We have something called readers reports.

Oh, yes, right.

Exactly what you're saying. We ask people, you know, these principles we've been talking about. If you want to write in and tell us about a time that you saw one of these principles work for you or on you send it in, we'll publish it. This has been one of the greatest pluses of subsequent editions of the book to have numerous of those reader's reports for exactly the reason you say. It gives people some More content than just, oh, thumbs up. Yeah, here's why. Thumbs up. And here's how it worked for me or on me. Yeah.

Now let me ask you something because one of the things that I've been kind of experimenting with right now, so this will be good. I'm kind of, kind of impose on you to brainstorm with me through this process. Help me explain what my thinking is, that is there a difference? I'm suspecting that there is. On sharing a field report or sharing something where it is almost intended for others in the group, like, let's say. So we have a community of real estate agents that are all deploying the same principles, the same marketing strategies that we use These field reports that I'm letting outsiders, like people that we're trying to include or invite to come into the group. I'm positioning the field reports as they're for the other inside members and that I'm letting the outsiders are sort of getting to voyeur in on this. It's almost like they're observing a communication between the insiders that maybe they shouldn't be seeing. Do you understand what I'm saying? And is there anything to that about why?

Well, there's an exclusivity there.

Yeah.

Very powerful. When we have access to scarce information. Yeah. Done some research on this. It greatly increases the likelihood that people will treat that information as something to.

Act on where I came like it was. And I'm wondering about what's at play where, when. It's almost like if you present a field report in a way, like directly to them, there's still sort of this thing that it's being created to convince them to do something else or to think a new way. But if we're presenting it in a way that it's not actually for you, it's for other members to share the successes that they're having. And you're seeing this, it's almost like your guard is down because it wasn't like a trained sales presentation for you.

Right.

I don't know what. What that is. There's the.

Well, it is that people resist the idea of being persuaded.

Yes.

They have this sense of autonomy and want to be, you know, independent and they don't like being moved. Even though the persuader may have the best of intentions.

Yeah, absolutely.

Give them new information they don't have.

Right. Yeah.

But that idea really causes people to. To push back. So that's a kind of an automatic strategy that people have.

Yeah. And.

And I think that's what, what you're you're getting. If you're talking to somebody else about this idea, then it's not pushing you, you're just learning about it.

Yes, that's right. I found. I saw an interview with Scooter Braun, who's Justin Bieber's manager, the guy that discovered Justin Bieber on YouTube. And he said something that was really interesting, almost said it inside of an interview, that when he was sort of building up the legend of Justin as he was developing him, he would never let Justin do a video on YouTube that started out with him addressing the camera, saying, hi, I'm Justin. This is my new song, I hope you like it kind of thing. Every video that he presented was kind of off to the side or that you. Somebody captured this and recorded it while he's doing something in somebody's living room or he's busking on the street and you're, you're through the lens, the POV of discovering him as opposed to him trying to convince you to like him. And that's really. It was something interesting that there's subtlety to that.

There is. And it, it just fits with the research in persuasion science. There was a study done a number of years ago by a woman named Elaine Hatfield that showed that if you give somebody a persuasive appeal and somebody else overhears it, the person who overhears it is more convinced.

That's what I'm thinking. So that's perfect. I'll have to get with you to get that research because that's exactly what I was trying to understand. That's. That makes total sense now.

And there's even some research, because there are certain circumstances where you can't. I mean, you're, you're, you're trying to persuade somebody. That's. That's the deal.

Right?

It's, you know, but when you're overhearing.

That, when you're overhearing it, you're just listening because you don't have to have your defenses up to. You're not, you're not engaged at that because it's not coming directly at you. That makes total sense.

And now there's a new piece of research that shows that if you have to convince people directly, because that's your job, they know that that's what you're trying to do. There's something you can say after you finished your appeal that reduces this resistance. It is to say, of course, it's completely up to you.

That's, you know, I love this. Giving somebody that whole thing. This is great. I feel good about all the things that we're doing now, but all directly root cause of my first studying of your work. I've built on everything that I've done on that foundation. At the end of every email that we send, we add something that I call our super signature, which says, whenever you're ready, three ways we can help you. And that's. And I think that what you just said there, we're detaching somebody from. I'm not trying to convince you, but I'm. I'm willing and enthusiastic to accommodate you if you're ready to do something now. But we're saying whenever you're ready.

That's another example. Now, that one hasn't been tested by.

Maybe I could be a field reporter or a reader report in the next upcoming edition. That'd be fantastic. Well, what would be one of the most surprising things that you learned? Like, because I know when you had shared in a conversation with Joe and I, when you were thinking about, you know, updating the. The book that you initially thought, well, it's pretty solid, but there's been so many developments there. What was the most surprising thing or a couple of things that you really either surprised you or delighted you?

Well, let me tell you that it wasn't an easy decision to do this update because, you know, there's this old saying, don't fix what isn't broken.

Right.

This book, the previous edition, has been very good to me. You know, sold more copies than I could have sensibly imagined in 44 languages. In fact, I was. I have a colleague, a Polish colleague, Professor Wilhelmina Wozcinska. She said to me, you know, Robert, your book Influence is so famous in Poland, my students think you're dead.

Oh, my goodness.

Which I thought was a sobering but affirming commentary on the success of the book. But then I also remembered a quote that my grandfather used to love. It was, if you want things to stay the same, things are going to have to change around here.

That's great.

And I bet it applies to all of the people in the network who are now online watching this. They've been. A lot of them have been successful. You don't stay successful by doing the same thing. By staying where you are, you have to always move forward. Shark in the water, you're always moving forward, otherwise you get left behind. And that's what my grandfather was saying, if you want this to continue to be a good situation, things are going to have to change. So I realized there was a need for this new edition. It had been 14 years since the last edition. A lot of new research was available and I wanted, including that new principle that I wanted to put in there.

Yeah.

Now the question of what, you know, what surprised me most? I'd say there were several things I could probably raise to the surface here. There was a study done that contradicted everything I had been doing when I was trying to get colleagues on board with a new approach or an initiative or an idea I had that I wanted to run up the hierarchy, you know, and get buy in from top people. First I had to get buy in from the people around me. I wanted their, their assent that this was a good idea so I could say that as I move up the, the line, you know, how did I, how could I do that? And I would always try to use what is essentially the idea of giving, asking for their feedback on this idea. I'd give them an outline or a blueprint of what I was suggesting and ask for their opinion on this.

Right.

Asking for their feedback was the right thing, but asking for it as an opinion, it turns out is a mistake. When you ask for somebody's opinion, you get a critic.

It's true.

You get somebody who literally steps back away from you and, and goes inside themselves to search the pros and cons and come up with their inside opinion.

Right.

The research shows if you substitute for the word opinion the word advice, you get significantly more favorable reaction to your proposal.

Do you know what's interesting about that? As you were saying that I imagined there's a great story in one of the other top three books that I recommend is My Life in Advertising by Claude Hopkins. Old, old, old right principle based books. And in one of those, the salespeople are having a hard time selling the Cotyline, which was the lard type of product to bakers in this particular. And he was called out to help them, you know, settle it, to go figure out what's going on. Why can't they sell this in Boston? And he went into the largest baker in Boston and he brought with him a picture that was, you know, back then they had illustrations, they didn't have photography stuff. They were painted things for signs. And he asked the baker, he said, can I get your advice on something, this picture? And he set it up and explained that this picture has cost me many hundreds of dollars and it's meant to represent the perfect pie. And I want to get your advice is this what, how. And as you said that, what I thought about is when you ask for somebody's opinion. They're sort of representing themselves and everybody that they're behind them. When you're like them, that you're trying to influence. And when you ask for advice, you're positioning them on your team.

That's right.

Almost like opinion is you're getting the opinion of someone on the other team kind of thing.

You're exactly right. This is a unity enhancing strategy. Asking for advice.

Yes.

Because just as you say, when you ask, when you ask for an opinion, it's okay, us then me, I'm representing people like me against your idea. Right. When you say, can I get your advice now? It's the two of you.

How can we best present this to everybody else?

There's a great quote. I think it was the novelist Saul Bellow who, who said, when we ask for advice, we're usually looking for an accomplice. Now here's what the research shows. If you get that advice, you get that accomplice, you get that partner.

That's the best advice. That's so great.

I love.

Once again it's, there's no effort involved here. We change the word opinion to advice. It's not. Doesn't even take a full breath to generate that difference.

Right.

And we get this big effect now.

It's an instant, like you said, it's a click that already he's shifted over here. That tells you what lens he's gonna reply from. You know what?

It strikes me as worthy of supplementing one of the most successful marketing approaches that we've had in many years. Co creation. It as a, as an effect that really works big. Getting our customers, getting our prospects, getting our clients to help us co create the next version of our products or services, what model features we should add, which we should. And we ask for their feedback on this. Right.

I've often launched new initiatives or new projects by recruiting what I will call a case study team where I'm launching a new case study where I want to work with a handful of people to develop this new program. And you're getting, you're gathering people that. I think that what happens is it feels like this is going to be extra attention because he really wants this to work. Like it feels like my ego's involved with the creating great case study results. Right.

Yeah. So I'm a big fan of co creation.

Yeah.

And I'm just saying there's an optimizer I used to always ask for opinion. Give me your opinion on this. No, optimize your co creation requests by asking for advice instead of opinion.

Mm. I love that. It's such an important distinction as always. I mean, this is just my mind goes off on all the different ways to apply this, even when we're having the conversation about it. I can't wait to reflect on it too. Unity seems like an exciting new development here. Are there any more of the specific things that you have developed around Unity, how that can be deployed or how we can trigger that?

Yeah.

First of all, we can look for those things in the history or experience of the people we're trying to move in our direction that we can legitimately say, oh, I'm a Packer fan too. Oh, I'm a runner too. Oh, I'm, I'm a firstborn too. Those kinds of things that are associated with an identity that we have, we should, we should sift through the information that people give about themselves on Facebook or LinkedIn and so on. It's not embargoed information. They want us to have it. And where we find those things, we should raise them to the surface. We become one of them. Not like them. Look, you know that study I was talking about, this student, the college student on the campus.

Yeah.

She didn't say I'm a student like you. Student is just too big a, just too big a category that I'm a student here.

Yes.

Now you're a Spartan or a Sun Devil or a Blue Devil or a Bruin or whatever. You know, you're of them that makes the difference.

You know, one of the. This puts something into light here that Gary Vaynerchuk, I don't know if you've met Gary or no him, but his express, he's going to buy the New York Jets. That's his goal in life, to buy the New York Jets. And somebody asked him what will be your like if you take over the Jets? What's your marketing playbook look like? And he said something that was really interesting. He said job one will be to buy a, to give every five and six year old kid in the Tri State area a Jets Jersey when they're 5 and 6 years old to create that identity as a Jets fan. Because when they're 5 and 6, that's when they're either going to pick the Giants or the Jets. And it's the things of you get somebody as a Jets fan early on that now they're grow up with an identity as a Jets fan just like you have as a Packers fan. Right, right.

And that's really interesting, really good strategy and I can say that it worked on me. Yeah, the Packers For. For. Okay, there. There's a British soccer team that I root for, and I don't. I'm not especially into soccer or British athletics, but it's the Tottenham Hotspurs. Somebody gave me a shirt.

Yes.

When I was a kid.

Yeah.

And it was a cool shirt, so I wore it. And now publicly, I become Hot spurs fan in the eyes of the people around me, which I identified, I internalized, and I've continued to be a Hot spurs fan all my life for that.

That is so. You know, you think about this now. It's like, when I was young, my father was friends with this guy Zenin, Andrew Sisian, who was a kicker, and he played in the NFL, played for the Tampa Bay Bucks. And when I was a kid, he gave me a Tampa Bay jersey. And it's been that I've been a Tampa Bay fan because we still watch on tv and there's Zenin. And it was like a funny. Yeah. It's amazing when you really think about, now that you've shone a light on it, all these, like, historical things that have happened that really illustrate it.

Well, let me give you a couple of other. You asked, what other things could you do to initiate a sense of unity? And it turns out that there's one strategy that I saw Warren Buffett use that was so disarming to me. It was on the antifa. Now, Warren Buffett, you know, whenever I ask, when I do platform presentations to, you know, financial services firms and who would you say is the most successful financial investor of our time? And it's unanimously Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right. So. Well, he and his partner, Charlie Munger, have started this business, Berkshire Hathaway. It's a holding company. They don't make anything. They just invest in things. And they have to convince us through their messaging, but mostly their success.

Right.

That we want to invest in them. If we invest in them and they know what to invest in, then we do better win.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I happened to get the Berkshire Hathaway shareholder report that he writes every year, because I have a share of Berkshire Hathaway stock that I got. One day, many years ago, I went to my mailbox. There's a big envelope, and I opened it to find a note from Warren's partner, Charlie Munger. He said, and it was attached to an a share of Berkshire Hathaway stock that was worth about $75,000 at that. And he said, we have made so much money from your book that by your first principle of influence, reciprocity you're entitled to something in return. Here's a share of the Right. Now, not only was that. Now, not only was that a good decision, I mean, a good outcome for me financially, it was a good outcome for me intellectually because I now get to read what he has to say in all of his shareholder reports every year. He's a brilliant communicator and persuader. And on the 50th anniversary of Berkshire Hathaway, it was clear that he had to say something that would cause all of the people who own Berkshire stock to hold onto it and get other people to continue to buy it. Because it was 50 years now that he and his partner were no spring chickens. And what happened? What if something happens to one or another of them? Would I. Should I sell my stock now? By not. Do you know what it's worth today? 400,000.

I know exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I've got one.

Okay. So should I sell? And here's what he said in this. In this stockholders report. He said, I know a lot of people are asking themselves, what's the future profits? Like what? What is the wisdom here? Should I sell or should I hold on to Berkshire? And then he launched into a set of merits of Berkshire that make it make sense to hold on to it. But he preceded that long dissertation, that long treatment of all of these strengths by once again saying one thing that just convinced me never to sell. I'm going to tell you now what I would tell my family if they asked me whether to sell or hold on to Berkshire stock. And then he told us why he would hold on. The ultimate WE group, the ultimate unity, the ultimate group in which we share an identity, is our family. He brought the power and the confidence of a WE group just by saying, this is what I would tell my family. And I never dreamed again of selling that share.

You know, there's an interesting thing because I. The distinction between what Warren does and what every other corporate report does is that his is presented as a letter to shareholders. Yeah, it's the annual letter to shareholders. Like he's writing your Thanksgiving letter that they. It was a good year. You know, Baba Babbadder had a great year. See, and you know, you're just catching up with family, right? To let everybody know what's going on. And there's no graphics, there's no beautiful, no posturing about it. It's just the words from his heart as a letter to one shareholder. And you look at the other. Corporate annual reports are very sterile and removed from the personal sort of Communication element of it.

Right. And you know what else he does? Just. It makes me shake my head at how smart he is. He keeps your trust in his honesty and credibility and trustworthiness in presenting this information by mentioning on the first page or two of text in his letters something that went wrong that year.

The bad news. Yep. Yeah.

And he said, you know, we've learned some from this. We won't have. This won't happen again. But every other CEO buries what went wrong in some footnote someplace.

I fluff it up with charts and graphs and.

Yeah.

Projections and. Yeah.

He turns lemons into lemonade. In fact, a couple of years ago, Berkshire had such a good year. There were no things that were. That he made a mistake on. He didn't make any bad calls, any wrong calls. They were all positive. So you know what he did to show his willingness to be honest with us, that he's. He may be a good, but he's not perfect. Right. He's not perfect. He mentioned a mistake he made in 1970, 1993, when he bought a company called Dexter Shoes that went south.

Yes.

He, he's brilliant at this. Giving us a reason to say, oh, this guy's being straight with us.

Yeah.

The next thing he's going to say, I'm going to believe that.

That's amazing. This is fascinating. I've got a. Some of these, some of the things that were new things that you discovered in the, in the book. And some of them jumped out at me that I wonder if we could talk about a couple of them.

You know, I would love to do that, but I want to finish the question you asked, which are the most surprising research. So besides advice versus opinions, do you know that online sites that have stars that they can point to stars associated with them, the greatest conversions don't come from five star sites. They come from sites that have 4.2 to 4.7 stars on the average. Because five point star sites seem like they're phony.

Ah, yeah. Yeah. So don't think that you had about how to spot because you do see some of those things where there's review farms. We've seen videos and things of all these people who just go and put fake reviews on things. And that's an interesting thing. If it's all five, that should be a red flag.

It's a red flag.

Yeah. Is there anything to look for within the reviews that will tip you off that it's a, that it's a phony review?

Yes. People who use first person rather than first Person, language, me, I, you know, that sort of thing. They're talking about themselves rather than the product because they don't really know the product. They're phonies. They're hired to write the good review. Also. People who use a lot of verbs rather than nouns because they're talking about once again themselves going to buy the product, doing this with the product, writing the review, they're talking about themselves acting rather than the merits of the thing.

Yes. That's interesting.

Yeah.

These and that's all good stuff to be able to spot these. These things when they're happening. So, so amazing. I know. I'm looking Bob, I could talk to you all day here. I feel like we're just getting started here. Eunice had texted me that we're going to open up and maybe have some questions in the chat from some of the people. So maybe Gina can share with us how to make that happen if she's there with us.

Hey Dean, I think Gina is getting ready to post that. So if there are any members. I know BJ Fogg is on and he had an idea in the chat that he posted. Bj if you want to chat about that.

I haven't been able. I never.

Hey bj.

Hi. Hi.

Well, maybe we do it as a surprise but I just want to say this. Before I'd met you in person and thanks to Joe, we crossed paths back in the 90s. I took your book was what I replicated with computers to see if computers could use these same principles and have an impact. And yes, it's so hardwired into us that yeah, computers respond to reciprocity. They respond to people using computers, they reciprocate computers liking matters and so on. So that for me was fascinating. Take your book and I still have that version of it. It's so dog eared and design experiments and put those together. So thank you. You've had a huge impact on my career, my life and I think so many people here as well. Thank you.

I remember those studies, bj. I talk about some of them in the newer versions of Influence.

Well, congratulations on your. The new version. I'm sure that's a massive project and you did it. Good for you.

We added 220 pages to the previous edition. So it's a major revision. Yeah.

That's awesome. Tarna.

Wonderful.

I'm back here for you, Dean. All right. Michael Fishman, I believe posted a question in the chat. Michael, if you're still on, if you want to ask.

Sure.

Professor, good afternoon. Honored to see you Hi, Michael. In the health category, brands and personalities are always trying to elicit trust from the prospect, to trust them to say yes, to provide an email, to make a purchase. And the fact is, for most prospects, the problem they're trying to solve, they've tried to solve in the past and failed. So not only do they have to test the new brand or the new personality making that promise, they have to trust themselves. I think they can trust the brand quite quickly. Who they can't trust is themselves. And I'm wondering if you would concur with that. And if so, how would you encourage a prospect or help them to trust themselves in that interface?

Here's where I would go with it. And that is social proof. That is, if you can show them evidence that a lot of people like them, who are comparable to them in circumstance, in age, in socioeconomic class, whatever the category might be, right, have been moving in this direction, that reduces their concern that, oh, this won't be right for me. It will be right for them if a lot of those who they see themselves as similar to do that. And I'm going to recommend something. If you're a startup and you don't have a lot of evidence like that, you know, you can't point to great market share or hundreds of reviews of your product or service, what can you do? We've completed some work that suggests you don't have to have the majority. You don't even have to have a large number of people moving in your direction. You just have to have trend. If you show them a trend in the direction of your product, that is more compelling than showing them the number at the end of that trend. So, for example, we did a study where we were trying to get people to conserve water in the the home, and we showed them evidence that 30% of people conserve water in the home. Another group was told two years ago, 20% conserve water. Last year it was 25. This year it's 30. There was no quality about it. Now, when we did a little experiment where we said, all right, now we're going to change strategies here and we're going to do another experiment. It's a product test. We'd like you to try a new toothpaste right here, right here in the lab. Here's a toothbrush with some toothpaste. Brush your teeth and then fill out this questionnaire. What they didn't know was we were measuring how much water they used while they were brushing their teeth. Those who learned that there was a trend to 30% were much less likely to use a lot of water than those who just got the number 30%. So even if you don't have the majority use a trend of people just like you and you get the movement in their direction.

What kind of language would be some of the synonyms or words around a trend? How would you language presenting the information of a trend?

Growth.

Growth, that's the best one. You can say increase, you can say elevation, but growth has resonance. It means strength.

Yeah. And continuing. That's brilliant.

We do have one person with their hand up. I believe it's my. If you would like to go ahead and ask your question and then we'll take a few more questions from the chat.

Oh yes, of course. Thank you very much. I just wanted to thank again Dr. Cellini and express my gratitude to him. We've had a couple of great events in Romania here and we were actually the first one to bring him in 2011. That's some great recollections and thank you Dr. Jalini for your books and your entire career and the things that I. I just wanted to have a couple of questions for you because I'm continuing my studies and research in power of influence. But I wanted to ask you about two specific things. One is, in my opinion, one of the greatest dangers of today's digitalization process is the so called immediateness. Everybody wants an instant gratification. Now as far as I remember, influence is a process. Influence takes time. Now how do we combine the two? I mean there are a lot of people asking us for instant influence if possible. You know, just a snapshot and then a question. Haven't I convinced you yet? So my question to you would be how would you tackle, how would you harmonize the two, this present immediateness, instant gratification with the lengthy process of influence which never happens in an instant. And then the second question would be, unfortunately for the past years we've seen this process of fake news and it's been all over if you look at it, especially nowadays against this vaccination process that everybody wants to have it done. Now as far as my research, my last research has been done, I compared some of the fake news that I found and I came to the conclusion that some of them, they use your principles the other way around. So it's sort of an anti cialdini type of bad and evil influence. If you look, they use authority but in the wrong manner. They use authority, but with the wrong.

Hey Mai, would you sum it up into just a simple question for Dr. Cialdini, please?

Just to Ask a question. Because I remember Dr. Cialdini places a great emphasis on ethics. Now, what should we do? What should we do so that we ensure this ethics of influence? Dr. Chaldini, thank you very much.

Good questions. I'm going to start with the second one which has been central to me since the beginning. We have to be ethical at this in order to keep our relationships strong and lasting. Otherwise people just don't want to deal with us if they've been tricked into something, if they feel like they've been fooled. So how do we, how do we do this? And it seems to me we have to, we have to reward those people who have been ethical with us in the use of the influence process and we have to sting those people who haven't. Let me give you an example from my own experience. A few years ago, I was in a electronic shop appliance store, and I was there for a different reason, but I saw a big screen TV on sale. It was a great sale and I knew it was a very good set. And I was standing in front of it and the salesperson approached me. He said, I see you're interested in this at this price, I can see why, it's a great deal. But I have to tell you, it's our last one. It's our last one. And I just got a phone call from somebody, a woman, who said she might come by this afternoon and buy it and we'll be out of it. We have no more. You know, I'm supposed to be the godfather of influence. Twenty minutes later, I'm wheeling out of the shop with that cart in my basket because of the principle of scarcity that just swept me into this decision. Now here's the critical question. If he was honest and it was the right. It was the last item. I needed him to use the scarcity principle on me because in that case, he was my ally. He was honestly informing me into something I needed to know in order to make a proper choice. So I went back the next day to see if there was another set, another model on that shelf.

Right.

There wasn't.

Wow. So you felt validated. Yes.

If I had not taken his advice, if he had not said that to me. I'm sorry, if he had not said, it's the last one. And I went home to think it over and then came back the next day to buy it, or that evening to buy it, and it was gone. And he said, sorry, that's gone, that was our last one. I would have said, what's wrong with you? Man, it was your last one and you didn't tell us. You didn't tell me. We have to. All right, so what do we do to reinforce this kind of behavior? I went immediately back to my office because he was telling me the truth. I wrote a five star review for this guy and the shop. If he had been not my ally, but my adversary by just tricking me into that and there had been another model on the shelf the next day, I would have gone to my office and written a very negative review. I think that's how we go about handling these people who do this. We have to be instrumental online in commending them when they've been our allies and stinging them when they've been our adversaries in the process.

That's great. On reflection now, would you give them a 4.5?

No, I would give it a 5 because it was the real thing. But on average, it was still going to average out to be 4 point. Between 4.2 and 4.7.

The one that is really. That really gets me the most is scarcity. It's something that I wanted to tell you about this because in the last 48 hours, I'm constantly, as I said, observing things that are happening for me. So in. In the last 24 hours, I paid probably $1,800 more for something than I needed to because of the way that this was positioned to me. And I'll tell you the story of two domains that I bought, domain names, because sometimes I'll buy premium domain names for projects or for clients or for something that I'm working on. And in one case, there was a domain that I wanted to buy and it was in the same price range, it was $3200. And when I was presented with that it was available, the options that were presented to me were buy now or make an offer. So I made an offer on the thing and I said, well, I'll pay $1,000 for this one just to see the things. And I ended up getting it for 1800. Eighteen hundred dollars. Now, fast forward, that was six months ago, just yesterday. There's one that I wanted to buy. I went there and the options were buy now $3200 or start a monthly BI monthly with $144 a month. Those were the two options that I had. And there was no other make an offer or contact us. But there was a phone number up in the thing. So I dialed the phone number and was going to say, I'd like to make an offer on this domain. And there got voicemail and, and they said due to a high volume, there's no way to take your call. For fastest service, send an email to this email address. And so I sent an email and said I'd like to make an offer on this domain name. I'll pay this much and I'll pay in full today. And then I waited and wait and I got no immediate response to this. And in the meantime, by fear of somebody else, this sitting there waiting, that somebody. This is a domain name that I've been waiting for for 23 years available. And I just happened to check it, that it was because I was having a conversation with someone else about it and it was available and it's staring me right there, the buy now or the monthly thing. And I still had gotten no reply to my email. And before I went to bed, I went ahead and bought it because I didn't want to lose out on it, even though I potentially could have saved money on that.

You know, there's a great story that I learned from my contacts in the Netherlands for the booking, for the site booking.com you know, it's the largest, you know, hotel and vacation booking spa site in the world now. Well, they did something where they used exactly what you're talking about when they first started to show you a room that you're looking at, that you're shopping, you're, you know, you're scanning, you're looking at various options or started saying only X number of these rooms left at this price. And two other people are looking at it right now. The effect was that their, their customer service people called their technology unit and said the system is broken because we've gotten so many, suddenly we've gotten so many deals. There must be something wrong with the system. There's nothing wrong with the system. It's the power of scarcity plus competition.

Yes. And that's the real. When you're saying like that's the real thing, it's the most powerful. But it's so like you said, bringing. That's one that often marketers try and smuggle into a situation. They try and smuggle that scarcity for.

No.

Without the, the validity of it.

And that's what we frequently forget is scarcity doesn't just apply to how many units we have or how much time is, is available. It applies to the, to the features of the thing. If we have something that nobody else can provide or some combination of features that is unique to us, that should be at the top of our presentation because it means nobody else can get this. Nobody else can give this to you, which makes us want this scarce thing.

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Tarna, back to you. If we've got some other questions, I.

Was hoping we could go all day because we've got so many questions.

All right.

Sally Hogshead, I believe you are on and you had a question. We would love to bring you up and see if you'd like to ask Dr. Cialdini that particularly.

Hey, Dr. Cialdini, you've done such a good job of creating for all of us a new way of thinking about marketing. Not just psychology, but interaction, romance, friendships. So here's the thing. When it comes to marketing our products, you've done such a good job of the principle of reciprocity, it almost doesn't mean anything anymore. You were almost too good with it. Here's my question. Imagine we're launching a product. We can give away bonuses, we can give away our time. What else can we give away? What's the 2021 version of reciprocity?

Yes, it's information that you can give to if it's online.

Right.

You can give to everybody about a particular arena or issue or set of circumstances that they find themselves in. Top five tips as to how to optimize your but not with your product. That is you're not talking about your product. You're talking about the decision they are making regarding this or what they're going to do with the object or service afterward or the top three mistakes that people make when deciding on this. You are giving them something not as not designed to enhance your not manipulating. You're just giving them something they can use. That's what I would recommend.

Thank you. I appreciate your work.

So good to see you.

And you. I miss you.

Yes, I miss you.

What a wonderful question, Sally. Thank you for that. And Melanie Smith, I believe you are on and you have a question for Dr. Cialdini.

Okay, thanks Tarna. I'll jump right into my question. I am loving this conversation. And my question is related to testimonials. Client testimonials. So I think people's BS meters are pretty high on reading things and 5 star reviews. I totally agree. I'd be skeptical if I saw a five star review. What's the best way to use client testimonials in our marketing? These are from real clients. But how do we make them influence others? If they're too good to be true, people won't believe them. So should we ask clients who are writing testimonials to write something that went wrong and how we fixed it, or do you have any other advice for us?

I would say with regard to stars on a review site, if somebody gives you one or two stars, you should definitely reply and say what happened? And that you fixed it or it wasn't comp. It's, it's. It's not a matter of what is true with our product. It was some glitch or something. Whatever it is, you have to reply to those people and, and genuinely own that, that review or if they didn't understand correctly, you educate them differently. That's just the way you do it. You just don't ignore it or you don't try to suppress it. That's one thing you can do. But the other thing is put your testimonials, your client testimonials and your expert testimonials first. They should go before, before your material, before your appeal, so that all of the influence that they carry is there from the start. We typically weave them through in our presentation or they're at the end and so on. They should go first and we should multiply them. There is a study that, on expert voices who support us and somebody once asked me, how do I amplify an expert position? You multiply it, you have more than one. The same is true with client or peer testimonials. You have more than one and in there you're going to have some. Maybe that not as great as the top one. That helps people see it's credible.

That's so great. Very good.

Better and better by the moment, I think. Joshua. I'm sorry, Dean, go ahead.

No, I was just gonna say I see we've got some questions queued up here. I'm just looking at the time, so we need to move in here. Yeah, yeah.

A couple more. Joshua Platter, if you would like to share. Next please.

Hi. So I had a question regarding neurodivergence and the tools of influence. Let me just give a bit of background. So for years I worked at a local center for twice exceptional youth. And something I noticed very, very quickly is there's a big difference between your everyday 7 year old and a nonverbal chess savant from Russia. It took maybe two or three works before I got them to say a single word to me. And that was Checkmates. And I was really. I forget if it was in the book influence or if it was in the book never split the difference by Chris Voss where there was just a few words that says, yeah, this, these taxes work. Unless you're dealing with an actual sociopath. And I was wondering, well, how well do these tactics of influence work on neurodivergent people like, say, people with autism or sociopaths, people with adhd? Is there any difference you found in your studies? Have you looked into this? And if so, what have you found?

So there are certain of the principles that work right from the start from. So they're. They're part of who we are as a species. They're likely to work for all of us, like scarcity, right. Like liking. There are others, like commitment and consistency or reciprocity that have to be learned. We're socialized into those. Those won't work as well for those individuals, but the ones that are. That are evolved into us, like scarcity and liking, those will work. So if I understand is another one that will work.

Mm. So group mentality and just basic principles of liking and scarcity work, whereas more things are based off social conventions such as consistency are less likely to work.

Right.

All right, thank you. And thank you again for hosting.

That's awesome. Great question, Josh.

Yes, absolutely, Josh. And I think just one more question. Dean and I was going to. The Clemens wanted to come on Roger and Natalia. I apologize. But Linda, if you want to.

Thank you so much. I'm in a hospital with a friend, so that's why not on the screen. But thank you so much for this information and just. Just for the format. On the law of reciprocity that Sally had brought up. Dr. One of the things that I. That has helped me, and maybe it's maybe that I've been invoking the law of reciprocity, that for the last 43 years, I've been holding events with no advertising. No. Well, social media was around then. None of that. And what was taking place is that when my people that attend the events. What was so interesting? I've been in sales all my life. I would find out what is their why, their desire, what they would walk the beam for. So let's say that they did not purchase something at any of my events. I would know so much about them that I would call and give them recommendations. Say, for example, Sally would be great with this. Sharon would be great for this and this and this and that. And I would do that with everyone in the beginning. And so when I needed something or wanted to bite them to something else, where they would invest, then the law of reciprocity thought like, whoa, she gave. She gave first. So my. My philosophy is give first, be the first one to give. I would always give and that. And when My granny would say, when you plant it in good ground, then you'll get good harvest. So I hope that's what I've. Because I've got all your. Followed you, all your works. You're about 11 years older than I am, but I just want you to know that. Thank you so much. And I'm glad Sally had brought that information up because I think I've been using the law of reciprocity for a long time and I probably didn't know it.

You have been using the law of reciprocity. But what's brilliant about the way you did it was it also credentialized you as an expert by giving, telling people, you know, I know enough about you to know that this person would be best for you.

Right.

What Sally has to offer. And so that establishes your knowledge and credibility along with your willingness to give. You've given them something special. And what that means, by the rule that says you have to give back to those who have given to you what they have, provided they want to give back to you something special.

They do. Doctor, they do. They bring people. That's why I never advertise. They bring people, you know, and they didn't even want to do a virtual conference. We did three events during the pandemic with the hotel, with the, with the, with the Marriott and they loved us and people came in from all over. They constantly bring the right people. So I'm just grateful that I get it.

Fantastic. I love it.

Thank you.

Well, listen, this is. I mean, I can't believe how fast we went by. We've said it all now. We haven't even scratched the surface of saying it all. We've said, we've had so much in here. This is going to be something that, you know, I'm certainly going to listen back because I. There's so much that I want to even reflect on in this, in the chat here for everybody. This is one that you're going to want to save here because in the chat we have links to everywhere that you can get. All of Robert's books are all linked right up here in the chat, conveniently for you to go and get those. Now, you can also connect with Robert on all of his social media. They've got his Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, his YouTube channel. There's some great things in there and they're. So I hope that if you're new to Dr. Cialdini, that you have been lit on fire by this, that this will, you know, this will start a pursuit of knowledge in influence and there's no better place than to start than these books right here.

Thank you for letting us be part of this. And people can know about our new book. There's also a new online program that we have, our workshop. It's online on demand. E workshop with executive coaching.

I love it. And where can people find out about that? Do we link that in here as well?

They can find out about that on our website.

Influenceatwork.com influenceatwork.com so whatever you can do with Dr. Cialdini comes with my and Joe's highest recommendation. He's we. He's one of us. This is the so much. So I remember the funny story that when we did our first I Love Marketing conference, Joe and I were so excited about it and we were we all along. We didn't have any speakers at the event, but we knew you were in town and we wanted to have you by. We were on our way back to the conference from Eben's wedding at the time and we looked at each other and said, did you text Bob and Bobette about the event? Neither of us had texted you about it and we texted as soon as we landed. And it found out that you were doing your event in the same hotel at the same time that we were doing ours. So we were able to have you over. And we've got that presentation is on our I Love Marketing on our I Love Marketing site. I remember that stuff to go there. So awesome. I appreciate you so much. You've been such an impact in my life. When we get back out of the pandemic here. I can't wait. Be in Phoenix next time and Joe and I can go out for dinner with you and Bobette.

Oh, we would love that.

To see you in person again. So thank you so much. This has been amazing. And everybody, thank you so much for participating. Come back next time. Tell your friends. Tarna, do we have the date for our next live meetup? We do these once a month and they're amazing. So we want you back and we want you to bring somebody with you when you come back.

Not only do we have our date set, but we already have our guest set too.

Okay.

It'll be Mr. Evan Carmichael.

Oh.

All things YouTube and getting your message out there and everything you learned from today's Talk on Influence. YouTube is a wonderful medium for that. So that's going to be 11:30am Pacific. You register at Ilove Marketing. Zoom.com will have the page ready for you. If not today, tomorrow. And we've got to switch it all over from Dr. Cialdini now. And then on June 16, same place, same time, we're going to have Paul Culligan.

What's that?

I can't believe that's only two months away. That's only two meetups away. This is crazy.

Can you believe we're already coming into the fifth month of Joe being on sabbatical? I can't.

No, no.

It's amazing. Okay, so Paul Culligan is going to go over what we're doing with Joe's podcast. So we invite you, Joe and Dean's I love marketing podcasts. We're going back into the vault. We're pulling out some of the gold that they have sometimes buried in the episode. We're freshening it up for you. And we're releasing every week on the Genius Network podcast. I love marketing podcast and 10x talk podcasts. So we're everywhere. Don't hesitate to consume as much as possible. But Paul's going to be here to share about us relaunching Joe's podcast, so to speak, while he's away. So please tune in for that again. That's our June 1st. That is June 16th. And then Evan Carmichael, all things YouTube and what we've been doing on Joe's YouTube channel as well, and what a lot of our Genius Network members have been doing on YouTube to grow and get their message out to the world and change and impact lives. May 19, 11:30am ilovemarketingzoom.com and Robert, really quick, what's the official date of the.

New Release date is May 4th. But it's possible to pre order now?

Of course it is. Can you pre order multiple copies?

Oh, yes.

I went there and they said there's only seven left and there's four people looking.

You know, one of my favorite price. Oh, this is good. And you know, you can gift Kindle copies too, if you want to gift copies to your friends. This is good. It would be great to lead with the giving hand. If you want somebody to think of you with a reciprocation light, this would be maybe a good start for you.

So.

So thank you. Thank you, guys. Tim, amazing. Tim's becoming a professional introducer. Amazing introduction.

Well, it was a privilege to introduce both of you gentlemen. You did a great job. I think if I've known Joe for 25 years, if he was here, he would have said that was awesome. Can you really say that?

Absolutely. That's why without saying it and everybody behind the scenes, it takes a village to put these on. So Gina And Tarna and Eunice and everybody that coordinates to make this all happen. If you don't want to save everything from the chat, at the bottom right hand corner of the chat window there, there's a little box with three dots in it. If you click that, you can save the chat. So you'll get all the conversation, all the links that we put in there, and you can check them as your leisure. And you want to do it now because as soon as this is over, they disappear. How's that for scarcity?

Whoa.

There's good. All right, guys, that's it. Thank you so much. We'll see you next time.

Thank you.

It was lovely seeing you all.

Thank you.

Stay well. Thank you.

Bye.

Amazing.

It was great.

Thanks, everybody. Excellent.

Much love.

Have a great day.

Yeah.

Outstanding stuff. Thanks so much.

Very much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Very well done.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Loved it.

Thanks.

Loved it.

Great conversation.

Thanks, Dane. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

I don't see how to save the.

Chat on the three dots, though.

In the chat bar, when you pop open the chat, you should see those three dots there. And you should have an option to save chat right at the top.

Yeah.

It doesn't have it. I must. I don't know why. It's got raise hand chat meeting settings. Minimize meeting.

On your phone.

Yeah.

Maybe you can do it because it's on your point. Yeah, yeah. On the phone.

Dang it. Yeah.

Set. Set yourself up for these third Wednesday.

Of every month to be on a desktop because the chats are so valuable. Just like, oh, my gosh.

Log in and be on a desktop.

Not an iPad or an iPhone.

Unfortunately, I do not for that. Fortunately, I was at the dentist. Couldn't do it.

That's more fun.

Thank you so much. Awesome. You guys are the best.

Thank you, Tana.

Thank you.

Great.

That was great.

All right, closing it down in five.

Thank you, guys. Take care. Bye, Tana.

Bye, everyone. See you next month with Evan Carmichael.

Wow. You guys are the best. Thank you.

You're welcome.