Harvard Psychologist Admits Kathy Kolbe’s Work Would Rewrite ALL His Books!

If I had a good competitor who knew what I know and is built on the kind of data, I would actually send you to them. But there isn't one. So it's not because I think you have to come to something I did. It's just that there isn't any other way to get this information. I begged professors to write books on this subject and do research. And one leading psychologist at Harvard told me, Kathy. And he happened to be a good friend. He said, kathy, if I started researching your work, it would prove mine wrong and I would have to rewrite every book I've ever written. I'm a severe dyslexic. I have had severe brain damage from a car accident. I'm a grandmother of nine and I'm your buddy.

What is Colby, and what is your mission with all of this?

We're all equal and, dammit, I can prove it.

Okay, well, let's prove it.

So my mission is to not only prove every human being is equal to every other human being, and I have proven it. I can show you. What is all this deal about who's better than who? Smart. Yeah, some people are smarter than others. We're not equally smart, but we're equally creative. We're equally able to do decision making in a creative way, but we're different. And what I needed to figure out was, what are those differences and how can I prove we're equal? And then how can I help people get rid of all this stress of trying to be something they're not by validating their authentic abilities? Why did I get started doing that? Because I'm the daughter of Wonderlic from the Wonderlic personnel test that is being used outrageously poorly by the NFL. But that's how most people know about it. Dad created the whole notion of IQ testing for selection in the workplace. And as a little kid, I sat there and did test analysis. It was just part of what we did in order to have dinner. And I said, but, dad, this is all about how smart you are. I know a lot of smart people who don't seem to get anything done. And he said, my work is figuring this out. You go figure what makes people tick and why some people are good at one thing and other at another. And so at a very young age, I started saying, okay, I'll figure that out. Great.

Well, so I want to. So what is conation? What is conation and how does it relate to the other two parts of the mind? Because I want you to explain how this all works, because I would love to have our Listeners kind of get the difference between conative, cognitive.

Okay, Cognitive is thinking measured on IQ tests. It's what you learn. So you don't have any cognitive. When you start, you fill in an empty bucket with learning. So it's. You're learning. It's not even how you learn. How you learn is conative. Cognitive is all about filling your bucket with information so that you know things you can use and share and benefit from. Affective is your social style, your values, your, your emotions, your beliefs. And those also are an empty bucket at birth. Except I think you kind of have social style. Introvert to extrovert from the get go. It hasn't been proven just how steady that is over life. I believe you don't radically change, but what you learn is to adapt. So I've seen you be very introverted when we've been together in deep think conversations. And people wouldn't believe how in those moments, how introverted you can be in your own home.

Right?

I mean, where you're living, how you've set it up, that home is the home of an introvert. In this setting, you're an extrovert. Same is true of me. I'm, you know, I can banter with you all day as an extrovert, but when I go home with, when I'm with my grandchildren, I go from introvert to extrovert with them, depending on which one, what do they need and how I respond. So the affect, the social style is something you use in a very adaptive way. And smart people learn when to turn it on and off. The conative is the one solid, lasting truth about you. Totally sustainable. You will always be Joe. You will always have this talent. There is nothing anyone can do to you. They could beat you up, abuse you emotionally. I know some of your life, all the things that have happened in a very eventful life have never robbed you of being Joe because your conative instincts are deeply embedded in your brain. My brain research shows that it is the part of you that's most protected in a physiological sense. It's what makes you tick. This makes you do what you do the way you do it. It's not why you do it that's affect. And it's not the logic behind what you do. It is the truthful, instinctive drive.

Yeah. The way you do it.

Yep.

Okay. Love it. Is there a dark side of the conative part of the mind?

There's a dark side of the way people use it. And for that reason I've been called in my own company the Queen of sales, prevention for over two decades, I would not allow this to be used in education. My fear was before we had enough ways of training teachers, books written, things available to train and back up this truth, a teacher getting this about you when you were in second, third, fifth, eighth grade, most any of your education until university. If I gave this to a teacher, they'd look at it and say, oh, not enough fact finder detail to go to college. Oh, doesn't finish what he starts. Not dependable, tough student to have in the class. Oh, going to talk and interrupt all the time. This is an ADD kid. Where's the meds?

Okay, well, so using freedom as an outcome. Okay, let's just say that we need to speak about what it is that you know what it is that your organization that you set up will allow people to discover about themselves because what it will provide for them could make more money, give you quality of life. But let's say that reward is freedom.

Yes.

So what is it that people are doing or don't understand that is causing them to be imprisoned and not having it?

I discovered that conation is what's behind your modus operandi, your mo. So it's not just a law enforcement person or a criminal who has an mo. You have one, I have one, we all have one. And then I had to figure out, well, what constitutes an mo. And I figured out that there are four modes of operation. So modalities. And the ancient philosophers talked about modalities, but they had 36. It was too complex, you and I.

And I'm going to put this little tag on right here too, because this.

Is me, that's you, with your modes. I test. A very simple little test, the colby index. Just 36 questions. You answered them in about 12 minutes, as I recall. And it tells you each of these modes. The first one being fact finder, tells you, how much detail do you need and how much do you give on a scale of 1 to 10? I give a teeny weeny little bit. You give more detail 2 1/2 times more detail than I do.

Does that make me better?

It makes you better at giving detail. I'm better at getting to the bottom line really fast. So we're equally good in the fact finder mode, but we're different in the way we do it. My son, the attorney who is now the CEO of Colby, David Colby, is way down here. He's an aide in fact finder. That's why when you have a conversation with David, you better be ready with some facts. And figures. And the conversation's gonna go back and forth with the pros and cons. With me, let's come up with five pros and say, let's do it. You and I have cut deals without even going to the what could go wrong? Because we turn that over to other people. Right, right, right. That's why we have people, is to tell us, oh, no, no, no, no. But Kathy, do you really want to do that? Oh, well, I got to. I'll go into the cognitive and my work includes after, you know this, knowing when to get cognitive and edit yourself. You and I are both long in the green. Quick Start. Quick Start deals with how we deal with unknowns, how we take risks. We're both big risk takers. So how do we deal with time? It's always the future we're looking always to the future. I'm 75 years old and I'm working 20 years out right now. I can't deal with the past. This is the past. Fact Finder is the past because the past deals with evidence that has previously been acquired. It deals with knowledge that we know, and it's in print, it's in a book, and we can read the book and we know it's there. This particular book that I had to write is written in the voice of a fact finder. Meaning it's not authentic, man. And I hate this book. I've never read it all the way through as I was writing it. Sometimes I was probably literally pulling out hair. But I knew Fact Finders needed a book with the details. So it's not what we can.

So you're not saying it's a bad book. You're saying for you, you wrote it.

Oh, for Quick Start. For a person like me, it's a terrible book. But I wrote this book for those people and I wrote this book for follow through people.

That is the best.

Because I know people and I know we don't read the same way. I know we don't solve problems. Part of the point is it's not what we can or can't do. Both of us can rein in our Quick Start and not talk over each other too much, but Quick starts do interrupt each other because I know what you're going to say before you finished your question. And you know what I'm going to answer. And so we have fun editing this because we do that as naturally. But if you try to stop us and say, joe, I want you to ask the question and read the questions and go in order. And then, Kathy, I want you to wait till he's done. I want you to stop moving around and don't gesture or make weird noises and just answer. I don't know who would want to hear that interview because it wouldn't be authentic and it would be boring. People who do that naturally can be very interesting. The point is, when you're true to yourself, you have charisma. That's why you have so much charisma. You're so true to yourself. Wow.

You mentioned to me once, the first time we've had discussions about this, but you said that you did a lot of research on the educational system and found that the vast majorities of. Oh, I'll let you tell it. What's the research that you discovered and how basically they drug some of the most common kids and label them with ADD and other mental conditions because the school system doesn't know how to deal with them because of the different mos.

Of the people who are Research. Research shows. There is no research that identifies correctly when someone is ADD or adhd. Nothing. Therefore, when kids are identified add, adhd, it's because of behaviors, not because of some test that proves it. Those behaviors are very often quick start, talks a lot, implementer moves around, fiddles with things, can't sit still and lack of completing the assignment, lack of turning things in, lack of doing anything consistently. So you're always up and around and doing stuff and you can't sit down and you're not manageable in a classroom. And therefore the teacher. What we found was over 78% of grade school teachers have long blue follow through lines. They are very orderly, they are very systematic, they have a regular schedule. The more follow through you have, the more order you need in your life and the more you will insist on having order around you. So teachers are demanding order. You are not fitting into that system. Teachers are and this is astounding. Over 80% of grade school teachers have little short quick start, meaning they stabilize, which is great. It's a wonderful talent. They do not take risks and they don't see into the future. They deal with the past and that means they don't know how to deal with you the way you do the assignments.

Do you get punished a lot or sent to the principal? When I was in school, yeah.

Several principals have told me that with this kind of an Elmo, especially if you had a little less fact finder too. Those are their frequent fliers, the ones that are always being sent to the principal. Now what does that mean? It means that the teacher and the principal who got to be a principal because they were good at systems and details and strategies. Those people see the people like you who are different as having a problem. So they see it as a learning disability. What it is is the system disables you. The system does not enable you and people like you to learn with the same freedom that students like them can learn with. So we find in our research there's a correlation between conative mo and grades. And this goes all the way through the university. So university students have higher grades if they're fact finder. Actually you get some rewards in taking the SAT for having quick start because you finish it fast. The follow throughs get dinged on a test like that. Anything that's graded with a time definition if you have to speed up. So what happens here is you start to think, I'm not so smart, I didn't get good grades. And so you tune out even more from the system. You rebel. You even get labels. Not only add, adhd, but being defiant, a lot of negative labels. And so what do they do? They start giving meds. That is child abuse, pure and simple. And I can't wait for the day when I testify in court and go get them because they are harming kids. They being the people, they don't mean to do it. I'm not saying teachers are bad. Without reading the research that I have put out there. It's in my books, it's on my website. Without paying any attention to something they don't know and need to know. The educational system is harming kids. And we can't stand still and let that happen to our children, our grandchildren, our nieces and nephews. Got to stop it.

Wow. Wow, that's very interesting. So for someone who's hearing this, that may be a teacher and be like, wow, either they're going to fight against that or they're going to maybe say I should take a look at it. What would you say to them? What would you recommend? If you could wave a magic wand, what would you want to have happen that you think would add the most value to the students, to the system, to the teachers?

Well, I'm trying to create the magic wand because I've tried too hard to wave the ones that are on the market and they don't really work very well. So the magic wand I'm trying to create says we're all in this together. You wouldn't be a teacher if you didn't care about kids. You really want to help. And I'm not saying anything about your motives or your attitudes or your affect. But you're wrong if you don't understand that a kid can be a perfectly wonderful student and have an MO or behaviors like this. What we need to do, in my opinion, and what I started to do a few years ago, was go directly to the kids and their parents and say to the teachers, teacher, you keep teaching the way you teach. We'll come into the schools and talk directly to the kids. Just let us in and give us 15 minutes touch time, have the kids take the Colby index, give us 15 minutes and we can change their lives. And that's happening. Then I said, okay, that's too labor intense. We can't reach enough. My goal is that every single middle school kid in America will know their cognitive strengths and be able to choose professions, majors in college, relationship situations, be able to make decisions based on their truth and their reality. I'm almost there, Joe. I think in the next couple years I'm going to be giving away a Colby career program that has a brief assessment of kids mos. And we can do this with adults too, and then tell them these are the careers to stay away from. These are the careers that would work for you and give them some clues, not try to give them too much information, not to overwhelm them with all the science behind it. Just say, do this, don't do that in terms of a career or a major and see what happens. I know I'm right. I mean, I've interviewed over 100,000 people for this program over the years in different careers. We have 1200 careers in that program that will be rated for each person who takes it individually on a scale from 1 to 100.

That would be really valuable for people that don't know what they want to do with their lives.

I did it for you. For you to be a talk show host is a 98 percenter.

So I've probably done over 450 interviews now. Well, so one of the things I've heard a lot from people that after they take a Colby and pay attention to what it says, that the word I think I've heard the most from entrepreneurs is liberation.

Yeah, I hear liberation and I hear validate. A guy like our friend Dan Sullivan talks a lot about what a freeing moment it was when he took the Kolbe and how it validated what he knew but he didn't know how to describe gives you terminology. These 16 pages are filled with examples and terms and words to use to describe. Every one of these is a strength. There are no weaknesses yeah, so let.

Me clarify that too. There's. It's not right or wrong to have low this or high that. It's just who you are.

I don't even use low and high in this zone, as I call it. An implementer. You aren't a hands on guy who's going, you've got a new watch. Okay, there's a good example.

I have my Apple watch that seemed.

Like I have a 4 and implementer, so I'm a little hands on. With my Apple Watch. You have a three, you're less hands on. So you've got it, but you've got it over there somewhere in a briefcase. And I keep saying, put it on and use it. It's really.

I just got it. So I just learned how to use it.

I'm teasing you, of course, but the point is, you're not a mechanical guy.

No, I don't want to figure out.

How to do that. You turn that over to wonderful facilitators who are in the room, people on two cameras here, both facilitators, accommodating your need and bless them. Oh, you facilitators are so important to the world because you accommodate in every mode and you don't insist on one way of doing it or resist another. The two of us need you in our lives. You're the core of a team, so we're able to validate wherever you are here. And your strength, your strength and implementer is that you can imagine. I've talked to you about even the house before. Before you were very far along on it and you were imagining what you were going to do with the rocks and what you were going to do with the walls. And you could see it, but could you build it? I don't think so.

I could never build it.

But those people out there building your house, they've got longer lines than implementer, so each one of these talents should be valued. Implementer in our culture is not valued in the academic environment, it's valued when we need the quality they bring, the safety. These are the people who provide transportation and safety, the ones with the long line. Without them, we're in a world of hurt.

We're in a world of hurt without them. There are things that you'll say that I'll repeat just because I think are very, very interesting.

And if you don't repeat it, you don't like it.

No, I put more emphasis on it.

That's a little play on this because he doesn't repeat much of anything. So it's a Real treasure, follow through. Say it once and then it's gone and they can't even catch it.

Yeah. Then you're up to the test.

You say to a facilitator, write down what I just said, because you don't remember.

Right. Exactly. So, Dan Sullivan, I heard him say in the context of talking about Colby years ago, that there's no bad work in the world.

World.

There's this bad work for certain people.

Yes.

And so some people will see someone doing a job and they're like, God, I feel so bad for that person. I would hate to do that. Not realizing that what you're doing. That person would probably hate what you're doing. Maybe.

Well, they say the greatest fear is public speaking, but I think the people who tested that were fact finder, follow through researchers. Because for you and me, the greatest fear is not being able to speak.

Yeah. What would happen if I. Whoa.

If we couldn't get out there and talk to people? We would dry up and kind of.

It's like someone said to me once at one of my coaching groups, this woman who had been a client for probably like five years, she'd been in a monthly, you know, not an inexpensive investment in their future, in her future. She was in there with her husband. And she said, I come to you for ideas. And I stopped for a minute and really thought about that. And I was like, that's so. I'm like, you come to me for ideas? She's like, yeah, I just don't come up with ideas. And you come up with these great ideas. And I was like, you know, I have to talk about these ideas because I'm bombarded with ideas. I need to regurgitate these and get these things out of my head because if I don't talk about the ideas. And it was so funny because it didn't dawn on me that some people that just doesn't come easily to. How do you not come up with a bazillion ideas? And it taught me a lot about my mind. Saying, wow, what I have here, other people don't experience that and they will pay me to come and do what to me, I'm like, part of me building this marketing company and part of it publishing what it is that I do and doing podcasts and everything is. I need to get these things out of my head because they're doing no good if they just stay within me. I want to share them with the world.

Absolutely true. I think it's in this book I wrote for the quicksight. I don't know if you've read this one yet? No. But in here I say, and see if this resonates with you. You learn what you're thinking when you hear yourself say it.

Absolutely. I will figure things out as I'm talking.

And one of the dangers of that is when people like you and me with this Quick Start we both have, we get so excited because it's the first time we ever heard that idea. And I'll say, oh, that's a great idea. I love it. We've got to do that. The head of a utility company, a very big utility company, is an aid in Quick Start. And he said, yes, Kathy, I do that. And what happened one time was I said that this idea that I had, and he's also a PhD in engineering, said I had this idea for how to engineer this gizmo that would make it possible to do this amazing thing to save money on rates of it's cooling homes and stuff in Arizona. And he said, so I blurted out, this is fantastic. We have to do it, the sooner the better. Typical thing we would say when we get excited about an idea. He said, three months later, I hear this rickety, rackety noise coming down the hallway and this knock on my door and this group of very expensive engineer people come in and do a demonstration. And I'm saying, what are you demonstrating? It's the idea you had. He said, oh, no, no. I knew the next day that was stupid. You'll never get this to work. No, I never meant for you to do it. They had spent over $30,000 developing something that he had forgotten about the next day.

Wow.

That story's been repeated with a lot of my clients where that happens. We're so good at selling, but sometimes the people around us don't come back and check. Do you like it again today? Is it still a good idea?

Hey, I hope you're enjoying this video and I want to let you know that I have a new book that's come out and if you'd like to get it absolutely free, there's a link below in the description. Or you can wait till the end of this video or you can Simply go to joe'sfreebook.com and you can get a copy there, which is why it is one of the beauties of Colby, which you teach people is how to find matches of individuals that you will work well together. And so like in my company, we do not hire anybody if they do not do a Colby because it helps us with the selection process. It not only helps us but would help anyone that we hire because then we know. And so you've really developed this out well. So going back to freedom, how are freedom and conation related?

The kind of freedom we need, we need intellectual freedom. So we need to pursue ideas and thoughts. We need the freedom to express opinions and to advocate, which is advocate. But if we don't have the freedom to do all that in our own way. If I had to act like a fact finder or you had to act like a follow through, if you had to follow a rigid bureaucratic system, you would not have the freedom to find the joy to find your purpose, to, to act on ideas. And if I had to justify every single thing that I deal with, theoretically, then I wouldn't have all these case studies and all these clients who I've been able to reach. So I started dealing with clients where I'd say, if I'm right, now I know I'm right because I've done the research. But there were a lot of people who used my work before I could. I would say I believe I'm right, think I'm right, but I couldn't prove it yet. So I needed the freedom to be the theorist I am. That's a combination of quick start, follow through. You need the freedom to be highly, highly innovative. Everyone needs the freedom to be the freedom to be, which means to be cognitively who you are, to be authentic when we don't get it. And again, the protocols I've written for brain research are very clear. I put the EEG cap on you. I should have done this with you, sign you up, put the EEG cap on you, and I let you solve a problem that I give you any way you want to. And we see the brain moves along. When I ask you then required that you now solve the problem in a way I know doesn't fit you. So in your case, I'd say I want you to do it exactly the way you did it last time without changing anything. The moment I say that, your jaw sets. If we had the camera on your jaw on this side, I saw it happening. You lock up and you start thinking about ways you could cheat. Not really cheat, but that's what it gets called because you didn't follow the rules. It's the way you need to do it. So if you don't get to use it your way, what happens in the brain? And I have the monitor in front of me, as I'm doing the protocol, the brain starts going. I don't think it makes that noise, but I get to see this movement. Is the brain dithering? It's the brain looking for a way to do it and going into stress and using so much of your energy and power because you have an unlimited amount of this if you re energize. But if you keep working against your grain, you will burn out. Burnout is conative. Stress between two people destroys relationships. And most stress is conative.

Wow, that is fascinating.

Stress causes illness. Conative stress and illness. We're beginning to build quite a lot of data that shows the lack of freedom to be yourself causes so much stress. It affects your heart rate. We know it's affecting your brain. It can even affect your vision, it affects your speech. I have video showing the degree to which it affects your posture, your speech, your eye contact. Everything goes away. When you're robbed of the freedom to be yourself and think how you then present yourself ineffectively and it's just a downward spiral.

Have you ever done Colby in the prison system?

Yes, quite a bit.

What did you discover?

Quite a bit? Well, first of all, the people in the prison system who were in programs to become entrepreneurs, by and large were not entrepreneurial in their mo and that the people. It's so interesting because we found the people who are getting caught in drug dealing are the ones who didn't have the natural entrepreneurial skill to get away with it. And so I believe that the really successful drug dealers look a lot like CFOs.

Yeah, interesting.

They're fact finder follow throughs. They're university professors in their mo, not in their careers. I'm not saying that. But it is so interesting that the ones who get caught didn't have that quick start to shortcut and get around the system. It's terribly unfair. We find the highly adjudicated juveniles are also more the follow through fact finders. And the quick starts are out there egging them on and getting away with it. Our system doesn't know how to deal with that. We've worked a lot with the people who are trying to educate people in prisons, both in the juvenile detention centers and in the adult population.

Well, yeah, and plus also, I mean, I believe the treatment of addicts, the way that they're imprisoned is the modern form of human slavery. But it's like a lot of what you have discussed is that if you're in crisis, you're just gonna. You're just not settled. I mean, life doesn't work for you when you're in that place.

And when you're in crisis, the last thing you need is for someone else to tell you what you should be doing. You need to find your own way, your own path and that's why knowing this is so important. You know one thing also that is so interesting to look at is how many people who are handicap so called. So we've mentioned ADD, ADHD, but autistic kids, people who have lower IQs. You go to schools and you watch how they're treating them and they're treating them all as if they're follow throughs. They need a regimen, they need to follow the system. We need to have them do the same thing every day at the same time, seven days a week so that there's consistency. We have found that is absolutely not true with our non verbal assessments we can see the MO of handicapped people and they have the same variety that the rest of the population has of mos. And by the way there's no gender bias in this, none. So when you know the MO of a handicapped person and this is true with Alzheimer's patients to, to you can reduce their stress and help them manage themselves, the world around them, learning whatever it is they need, they can self manage better when you take away what you think they have to do and let them pick and choose and direct it toward what you'll get lots of information when you do that from us of do this, don't do that.

Which is what's great because it doesn't just give you like oh here's who you are. This it actually tells you here's what to do and what not to do.

I'm pretty mouthy about that.

Yeah, of course you're quite opinionated but your opinions are based on tons of information.

It's a matter of I'm not just going to tell you what's wrong with every single diagnostic where we say here's what's likely to happen. So it's very predictive. But I will not predict something without helping you improve it and try to create that freedom. So every result, every single thing I do comes with prescriptions for leading that to freedom and truth. It's always prescriptive. I just won't. There's no such thing as bad news. It's always helpful. People have told me I waste a lot of time doing that because people aren't going to read all that well. I don't believe it's ever a waste of time to do what will make it difference. Maybe that sounds goody two shoes but no, that's my truth.

I like it. I like it. So in order for someone to better understand what drives them, their modes of operation, and then kick it into high gear and thrive, what must they do?

You need to know yourself and not just how smart you are or how very nice you are. You need to know who you are, how you get things done. So you need to get your cognitive result. If I had a good competitor who knew what I know and has built on the kind of data, I would actually send you to them. But there isn't one. So it's not because I think you have to come to something I did. It's just that there isn't any other way to get this information. I've begged professors to write books on this subject and do research. And one leading psychologist at Harvard Talk told me, kathy. And he happened to be a good friend. He said, kathy, if I started researching your work, it would prove mine wrong and I would have to rewrite every book I've ever written. Oh, geez, he's not going to do it. So having said that, you have to seek the truth of who you are, and then you have to fight like hell to get the freedom to be who you are. And I want to give people the information and then give them the determination, the absolute commitment to themselves that I will find that freedom. I will not be a battered wife. I will not be an abused child. I will not be an employee who is overlooked. I will be someone to reckon with. Wow.

Helps people get their power.

It is. Oh, I like that. It is your power.

So with all the kids going to colleges, many getting embroiled in debt that they can never get out of and trying to find what it is they want to do, what impact is this? How does it relate to people?

Think of the compounding damage when you've picked the wrong major. It's not suited to you and future careers. And you are paying big bucks and going in debt, and then you get a job in that field and it doesn't work for you. Yeah. Wow. And again, we've done research and we found as an example with one university, they were having a high level of dropout in their third year of internship in their surgical residency. And they were saying, why are we losing these students? They've invested so much. Why are we losing them when they get to that third year? I had a guess, but I did the data, and the data showed that the kids who like you aren't natural hands on, when they had to get up there all day and suture and they had to cut and they had to work with tools, they were all thumbs. They weren't natural with that equipment. It wasn't working for them. They did fantastically when it was book learning, but they weren't great surgeons. We tracked and found that that was the number one conative reason. It was a conative reason. It was primarily a conative reason that they were dropping out. Where did they go? What happened to them? Most of them started all over again and became lawyers or accountants.

Wow.

Think of the investment of the university, the investment of their parents, the investment of the students, the horrendous debt, the waste. We could have told them that for a few bucks. A few bucks, 15 minutes and a few bucks.

Wow. I mean if you look at the economic damage and cost of that, it has got to be in the billions, truly. And that's just financially not taking the human lives or kids going into doing something like maybe well meaning parents that are going to recommend something to their children that has nothing to do with what their M.O. is.

Family businesses. The oldest son is going to become the head of it. Not if that isn't his mo. The daughter is going to be the accountant. Not if it isn't her mo. And they may do it and bring the family business down because they didn't have the right mo.

You mentioned that mentoring and coaching only works when you have a conative match. And so I want you to describe what that means because there's a lot of people that would listen to something to try to learn or discover something that go for. They have mentors, they invest in coaching. But a lot of people say, well, it's not working for me. And that was an interesting thing that you mentioned. So I want you to talk about that and what that means.

Okay, so let's say I'm mentoring you and my M.O. is upside down. Down kind of. It's hard to see that. But if we said my MO was that I am a wonderful follow through franchiser. I'm really good at setting up franchises and having everything follow a system. And I'm also a scholar and I do a lot of research and I'm really good with strategies. So I'm a strategic planner is what I call. I've got shortcut names for all these things to simplify it. So. So I'm a strategic planner, fact finder, follow through. And I sit down with you and I say, Joe, you're so smart, you come up with such great ideas, you ought to franchise them. You ought to find people who you can train to do exactly what you tell them to do and you ought to set up systems for that. So there are a whole bunch of genius networks around the world that all mimic what you do and set up the programs and you can sit back and collect the money because that will build and all these people will be doing what you do. What a terrible thing to do. To Joe Polish. It's a brilliant business model. Nothing wrong with the business model. And it works for a fact finder follow through. And I have the data. I have data that separate that looks at what entrepreneurial MO and the franchisers strategic people's business models. That business model would feel like what.

To do you Like a boatload of work that I have no interest in doing and a lot of details and it would just certainly not fit what I do.

You'd spend all day long feeling cooped up. You'd feel constrained, you'd feel, gosh, it seemed like such a good idea. How did I do this to myself? How many people do you know I counsel a lot who have made tons of money and tears in their eyes when they see the result and say I have done such harm to myself. I haven't had the freedom to be me and the pain of realizing what they did and how they did it. You, my friend, have never done that to yourself. You've known who you were since 96 and you had some pretty good instincts about it before then. But I find mentors tend to tell people to do it the way that worked for them. Their ways the right way. Drucker tells everybody to do it Drucker's way. And Drucker was probably a fact finder. Quick start. And Peters tells everybody to do it his way. Seems like a quick start with some implementer. You can go down the line of business gurus or therapists or any kind of a guru. I mean Groos are really people who just want to mentor thousands but they mentor them by telling them my way is the right way. Don't tell everybody that they can get rich by being an entrepreneur. And you wouldn't because not everybody is a natural entrepreneur.

Exactly.

Entrepreneurs are like you. Quick start second suit fact finder. You aren't going to be an entrepreneur if you're a follow through first factor, follow through first, fact finder second or some combination of that. Because you need security and there's no security in being an entrepreneur. So there are a lot of things. We picked a lot of words our whole mentoring when I you started to use the word. And I find myself kind of moving in my seat like I get agitated by the very topic because nobody can prove what they're doing is right. The evidence shows there's not much impact. And yet they won't change because that's kind of the. Well, the easy way is to pick all the volunteers and then assign them to someone in the same field of work or the same age or the same gender or the same. But they don't go to the same mo and that's just right now. I'm sorry, that's inexcusable ignorance. I used to say, okay, I know people don't get it. It's inexcusable. Ooh, I'm being harsh, huh?

Well, it could either be perceived as harsh or it could be perceived as. Damn it, I know this. There's something that can be done about it, and I'm sick of seeing this nonsense happen.

When we see so many case studies, so many situations where it turns around so easily so quickly and so beautifully for wonderful, lasting, viable solutions, I can't stand, especially when we hurt kids. It's just wrong.

What about environments? So when it comes to the environment and where you function and work and live and sleep and relax and whatever, focus, what are your thoughts?

Well, it's so interesting because in relationships you've got a significant other and you need quick start color and fact finder texture. And this person needs follow through everything matchy matchy and traditional. Fact finder is very traditional, appropriate fact finder will go for marble. And that marble is going to have not much color to it, but the marble's going to coordinate very nicely with the color wood. They're not going to have much difference. They're going to kind of integrate really well. And over here is the quick starts going with some glassy kind of effect with lights behind it. So who wins? I deal with this all the time. I work with architects and designers and people putting new offices. Feng shui, fine, but feng shui sometimes, usually works, I think, but not to the same direct result, in my opinion, as being conatively condescending or trying to compromise. If you try to compromise what this person needs and what this person needs, you get the ugliest house I've ever entered. Because nothing there really works for anybody. And you can see the struggle and you feel it when you walk in. So one of my clients. Everything I say is a true story. This is a fact finder follow through financial genius, Harvard alum, so smart. I mean, she's a smart mark cookie, married to a quick start implementer, rancher, cowboy, entrepreneur. After talking to me, they decided everything they'd been Doing kind of in the house is wrong. They didn't want to have. This is his room to design, and this is hers, which a lot of my clients do. What they did is. This is her. So you go into the dining room. She comes from this old, traditional New England family. And so one end of the dining room is this sterling silver tea set with a gold gilted mirror with candelabras. And over here is a painting of her forefathers. And under that is this layout of crystal in China. On this wall is this photograph of. You can't quite tell what. It's very, very abstract and just vibrant, vibrant colors. And behind it here is a 3D bull. I mean, it is just copper bull. That is just outrageously funny. That's my most fun dining room in the world. Just. It's the most fun. And what I've observed and asked them about that is kind of consistent is people know to sit where they're looking at which side is most appropriate to them. Colby, we build our own office, and this is too long a story, but I will say I built it and designed it absolutely to fit different mo's.

The new one?

No, the new one is different from the story. The old one. The old one, when you walked in there, depending upon where you sat, you either saw a totally traditional view all the way down the hall. In terms of colors and accoutrements, it was all traditional. If you sat on the other side of the boardroom, which was the first thing when you walked in, it's this big, open boardroom. If you sat on the other side, what you saw was high innovation, bright color, lots of energy, and we would keep track. We knew the MO of our visitors, and they would almost always just naturally go sit in the right place.

How does Colby impact? How does it become a useful tool as it relates to getting along, staying together, having fun?

I've had people ask me, what's the right MO for me to marry. I had an offer Several years ago, $20 million if I would allow this guy to make a little handheld thing where you could walk into a bar and it would click if you, someone else in the room had the right MO for you. So it was a dating game $20 million, 20 years ago. I said, I can't do that. Why? There isn't a right or wrong mo in a personal relationship. There is a right or wrong attitude about an mo. If you don't respect the significant other for who she is and you don't nurture that and you don't provide opportunities for her to have the freedom to be herself, whatever her MO is. Or his. Or his. I was kind of talking to your eyeballs.

Okay, yeah.

Yeah, whatever. Whichever. Trevor, if you don't give that freedom and it comes with respect and dignity, if you don't do that, you're not. You shouldn't be in this relationship, because that's not a loving relationship. What is love about? Love is about really caring for value and nurturing the other person. How do we show love? Not by what we see. We feel, oh, I love you, I love you, I love you. Yeah, show me. It's all about show me. And show me is conative. And you show me how much you love me by how much you give me the freedom to be myself and how much you nurture that and how many opportunities you provide for it. Or whether you say, my way or the highway, or you say, I love you so much, but I can't let you do that because that isn't what he or she needs. Sometimes your needs are in conflict, and we can measure that. We can tell you the degree of conflict, we can tell you the mode of conflict. And then, as I said, every time we see an issue, we give you a solution. We'll tell you what to do about it. Often it means this thing about togetherness. Was that the 70s or the 80s when togetherness came in? What a bunch of bull. You shouldn't be together a lot with someone if what he or she does drives you crazy. You can love each other and not spend so much time together. So I tell people who have very conflicted, conflicting, different mo's when they travel together. If she wants to stay in the hotel while you go to the museum, don't make her go with you. If he wants to read all the historical landmarks along the road, you get out and look at the flowers. You don't have to read it together. I always suggest meals together. So go on vacations, because eating is a wonderful, wonderful. But there's a whole conative thing to eating. But eating together is really important. The rest of the time, togetherness can mean we got there together. But then we, my husband and I, we both love art. We will go to an art show. So we arrive together, we go our separate ways, and at the end we say, okay, we're going to get together at such and such a time, we get back together, but I can't do it the way he does it. And that's worked so successfully. Then we can talk about the art and we can enjoy the art and we take each other back to see certain things of art, but we don't do art the same way. Wow.

So after everything we've talked about, what are the next steps for people that are listening to this, watching this, to take and to apply it?

Get to know your cognitive Strengths. Go to infoolby.com if you want to talk about seminars or hearing a speech or the new things, but go to Colby.com click on take the Colby A. Get your kids to go to the Colby Y. Have a family meeting. Get your employees together and do a seminar. I do them by Skype. We don't have to have the money of flying around. There are all kinds of ways we can. But take action. Hire the right people. By using the Colby Right Fit program. Do it. What have you got? Well, I said to the Sun's coach many years ago, what have you got to lose? Because they were losing so badly. And he said, okay, I guess, Kathy, last I looked, you're 5:3, but maybe you could help. That's when they went to the five. One of their coaches said, I'm better than some five foot three woman with a piece of technology. Listen to me. They've never gone back to the finals.

Okay? I hope you found that video awesome and useful. So if you want to get a free copy of my book, I want you to click here. And if you want to watch some more videos that will be useful and awesome, click here. Go ahead. You're over here. Do it now.

Come on.

Thank you. Watch them.