Perfectionism And Procrastination: The TRUTH about Overcoming Procrastination that the PROS know!

I'm Dan Sullivan.

And I'm Joe Polish.

And welcome to 10 Times Talk.

Hello, this is Joe Polish. And I'm here with who.

This is Dan Sullivan. And very, very excited about moving on from our first 10 times talk, which is on the 80% approach. And we just left everybody hanging over a cliff with the last one, Joe, because we're going to talk to them about the two most paralyzing traps that everybody gets into, but especially entrepreneurs, which is perfectionism and procrastination.

Yeah, totally. So let's. Where we left off, Dan, you talked about this box that you created with this concept of the 80% approach. Kind of give the definition of that, and then we'll jump into you talking about perfectionism and procrastination and how to eliminate that paralysis. But just how to look at things.

Well, the 80% approach is what I would call, you know, the division of labor. If you go right back to the beginning of capitalism, the, you know, Adam Smith, who everybody considers to be sort of the person who defined the capitalist system, talked about the, you know, that the ability to multiply depends upon the division of labor, that certain people are good at this, other people are good at this, other people are good at this. It doesn't make sense for one person to do everything. It makes more sense for them to do what they're really good at. And, you know, in the early days, that was just part of a mechanical process or a factory or something. But as we're into the 21st century, it's really unique abilities. Like, both you and I, Joe, are very much alike because we have the ability to conceive things very, very clearly in our minds, and then we have the ability to articulate what it is that we're actually for, so that people who are actually skilled, much more skilled than we are at managing things and completing things can actually do it. So the 80% is the original, you know, 18th century concept of division labor. But I brought it into a world where unique abilities can be instantly accessed because of information technology. And so it's that you're only ever doing the thing that you're really good at. But the first thing is that you have to start with the entrepreneur, the leader. And that's the first 80% of a project is actually achieved when the entrepreneur gives a clear definition of what the vision is. You know, why it's so important, why, what the ideal outcome is, what's the best and worst that can happen? And then what are the success criteria that when it's finished, this will be True. This will be true. This will be true. And then hand it over to someone who's really great at managing things, but they're not the person who initiates anything. So you have the initiator, the leader, the definer, and then you have another person who's a project manager, and they can organize the project and then find all the other team members who are in need who have specialties to do it. So the first 80% is the entrepreneur. The second 80% is the project manager. The third 80% or fourth or fifth is just a series of people who have very specialized skills at getting it done. And I define those, you know, the first three things as making it up, making it real, and making it recur.

Yes. I love it. I love it. This is such a good model too. And so what you basically say is that the 80% approach is a way of thinking and acting that eliminates the paralysis of perfection and procrastination. And that if you basically utilize this, this breakthrough will give you a lifetime of confident achievement, which sounds like a pretty big. A big promise. And basically you also talk about that, this as a solution, which it is. Is so simple and obvious that, you know, you may discount it and ignore it. And so I want to reinforce kind of what we talked about in the. In the last episode, that this is really important and it's really simple and it's available to anyone that's listening right now to actually grasp this. But it's, it's. It's only to the degree that you. That you take this seriously. So how would you first, I guess, define perfectionism and procrastination, Dan, and look at those as obstacles to just getting anything done and starting things?

Yeah, well, perfectionism comes from something that your brain does, and we all do this, and that is that you see something in the future and you can immediately think of the ideal. You know, it's sort of an ideal. This would be a huge improvement in my life. This would be a huge breakthrough. And you can clearly see it. And it's an ideal. It actually isn't a goal because it's just a really big picture, you know, of. You know, of what's possible in the future. So the ideal is the means by which we go ahead in time and see a particular result that's far superior to what we have right now. Now, what causes the perfectionism is that you might actually, as you're moving towards it, the ideal actually moves away from you. It's actually like the horizon line. The horizon line allows you to see where you're going. But if you measure yourself against the horizon line, it's always the same distance. So you have this feeling that you're not making any progress. And the ideal operates the same way, except it's not in relationship to space like the horizon line. It's actually in relationship to time. It's, you know, this is going to happen in three months or this is going to happen a year and everything else. But you keep judging all of your progress against this perfectionism. And you're demanding 100% for yourself. But since the ideal keeps moving away from you, you can't. And the, the thing is that no matter how much progress you would make towards it, you would never be happy with any of it. And you know, what other people contribute, you wouldn't be happy with them. And perfectionists are just people who are never happy, even though they're extremely talented and they make enormous progress in their life. And some of them have extraordinary achievements, but they're very depressed regardless of their achievements. And you know, Joe, we've had a lot of discussions, you know, in 10 times talk, and you and I over the years about addictions. And I think that all addictions come from this thing of perfectionism and, you know, judging yourself by ideals. So that's the perfectionism, that part of it. And then, you know, I mean, you've got a lot to say about this. And then we'll talk about procrastination.

Well, you know, when you were saying about addiction, the thing since it is a brain disease and it does happen in the brain, it is the interpretation of it, you know, this continually unsatisfied sort of perspective and viewpoint on everything. Nothing's ever good enough. And if your brain is trained and wired to think that way, it's going to see exactly what it's looking for. You said many times the eyes only see and the ears only hear what it is they're looking for. And if you have this ideal made up in your mind and in your vision, in your head, your expectations are just off. For one. Like you mentioned, you can have all the money in the world, you can have all the relationships. You can live in the greatest time ever in the greatest environment, and you could still be completely hating life because just nothing ever measures up. And that's debilitating. Not just debilitating mentally, but just. Man, if you can just think of all of the human value that never sees the light of day. I mean, as we sit here recording this episode, how many ideas are just going to stay in someone's brain because they're just not okay with it. It's not good enough. And it would be so good enough for so much of the world. And not in all circumstances, of course, because you mentioned, you know, if you are a pilot, 80% approach is not going to be good enough. You want to get things certainly right. But man, I mean, talk about a self created obstacle that you magnify to be so much larger and bigger than what the reality is.

Yeah. And it gets worse. And the problem with it, Joe, from the very first moment that you think of the idea deal and you start moving towards it, you've already deprived yourself of 50% of the energy that you actually need to achieve it because you're, you know, that you, you've had such a track record from previous disappointments that probably that kicks in right away. Well, this might be okay, but you know, this has happened before and I've never been happy with it. I was just, you know, I was just somewhere about a week ago and I was listening to a singer that I didn't know at all. And you know, you know, I'm, I'm. There's genres that I just, you know, you know, I don't listen to them. And I was listening. I really love the person's voice and I really love the music and everything else. And I said, who is that? And it was the name of someone who, you know, just very recently committed suicide. And you know, and I said, wow. I said, what talent, you know, and it was a woman and she was in her 20s. And I said, what, what, what amazing talent. And, and I said, why would she, you know, and they said that she was just so critical that the best that she could do wasn't good enough and her life wasn't really turning out the way she wanted it. And I said, oh boy, you know, you know what, you know, what a waste. I mean, there are some people are just incredibly talented and when, you know, they just check out, it just, you know, it pains you because boy, if she put in 30 or 40 years, you know, what would that have really produced and created on the planet? But then, you know, and then there's individuals who really do go for it. And Joe, I would say, you know, because you're, you know, from my experience, you're the greatest connector of, you know, great ideas and people on the planet. You hang out on a regular basis with, you know, very famous celebrities and a lot of field superstars. You hang out with billionaires and everything like that. And you know, from the outside, when you look at those people, you say, boy, they must really have a great life. But you've seen it on the inside and it's not necessarily so, not at all.

I mean, I've actually sat in, I've sat in group therapy with billionaires who were absolutely miserable and their lives were a complete wreck. Although they had all the financial resources on the planet, they didn't have the other parts. And of course, one thing I want to touch on with what you just gave, the example about the singer. Before someone gets to a point where it becomes so bad they take their life because they just don't want to be alive anymore. If you look at all of the things, things that cause human suffering, the ones that are especially self created in many cases, you know, addiction as an example, if you catch it early on, you know, like cancer, some forms of cancer, you know, early detection and swift removal, you can actually do something about it. And I think even this conversation is way beyond just an approach of, you know, doing projects more effectively and efficiently and being more entrepreneurial. I think we could actually change the course of someone's life by them grasping this concept. Because when I learned that addiction isn't just a problem and a disease, if someone believes in the disease model of addiction, which I certainly do, because with brain scans you can actually see that an addict's brain is different than a non addict's brain. That being said, it's a solution. I mean, even self destructive behavior is a solution. Perfectionism is a solution. Procrastination is a solution. Now it's not a very good solution, but it's a form of avoidance and it's a form of avoiding something that people don't know how to come to grips with. And by you, you know, in a lot of ways, I mean, you know, you got to take this in the right context. I mean, I could always refer to you as like Dr. Sullivan for, you know, the problems, you know, with many entrepreneurs. Because I've met people at Strategic Coach that have literally gone to therapy for years trying to figure out why they're the way they are. They go to Strategic Coach, they learn how to take some free days, how to learn about things differently, and all of a sudden their lives become happier, their relationships improve and you'll be like, huh, you know, how the hell does that happen? Well, you just gave them a more realistic way of approaching their lives and not beating themselves up and giving themselves some slack. And that's what, you know, that's what this approach, I think actually does for people. So anyway, let's talk about the other side, the flip side of procrastination, and we'll give people some solutions on how to approach it and put this 80% approach into their own lives.

Yeah, well, you know, the two, Joe, as you say, they actually go together, and I very seldom find the one without the other, you know, that they. Because the perfectionism, you know, I think I. Perfectionism is the result of a mental obsession with achieving the ideal as a minimum requirement. So unless it's perfect, you know, you can't be satisfied. Okay? You can't be satisfied with yourself, with perfect, you know, and the ideal. So that right off the bat you've almost removed all the satisfaction from the situation just by, you know, the way you set things up in life really tells you whether you're going to get, you know, you're going to get any joy out of them. But the procrastination then is the not getting started. So you do have people who are real quick starters, but because of the rule that they're using and the measurement they're using, doesn't matter how much activity they have, doesn't matter how much progress, how much achievement, how much good they create. But just because the way they've set up the measurement of perfection, they can't be happy with it. And then the procrastination is people who say to themselves, unless I can be guaranteed that the result is going to be perfect, I'm not even going to start, you know, and so they really want to do something, but because they can't guarantee themselves that it's perfect, then, you know, they won't even start. And it drives them crazy. You know, I know people who, you know, and, you know, I put a big push in strategic coach that people should write a book, you know, and I have people who've been saying for 25 years that they're going to write a book. And I say, well, when are you going to start? And I said, well, you know, I got. There's some things I got to really research. And I said, well, I'll tell you something, I've written, you know, I've written about 14 books, and I have to tell you, you're never prepared and you never have the research, and the book doesn't actually start happening until you start writing, so why don't you just start writing? And no, it's not good enough, you know, because they can't be guaranteed that it's going to be a perfect, perfect product. And so they just never get started.

Well, you actually, you say that these are mental habits, that perfectionism and procrastination, they're paralyzing traps and they always undermine individual and organizational confidence and that they create chronic guilt and dissatisfaction in spite of living in a world of even in many cases with people having had great achievements. So you talk about them as being two mental habits that can paralyze. Paralyze people for an entire lifetime. So my sense here is that if these are truly habits that are developed and learned, they can be unlearned and they can be quickly shifted because we can go very deep with this or we can at least make it very. Just open that this is available for you the moment you make up in your mind that this is a habit that you can change.

Well, I'll give you an example. And that's just the activity that we're doing right now, Joe. So, you know, I think the two of us are kind of famous for the way that you do one of these, you know, One of these 10 times talks is that you start talking and oftentimes we, you know, in the first minute or so, we don't really have a handle yet which direction it's going on, you know, but very, very quickly because we've taken the first action and we've committed ourselves, you know, to the 30 minutes or so that it's going to take. Then we're in motion and we start creating it and. But I'm sitting in a room where I'm looking through the glass here at the recording studio and there's two people looking at me and one of them is Paul Hamilton, who's my project manager. And Paul sets up the entire. I him, you know, we're going to do a 10 times talk with Joe and he says, okay, I'll get it all scheduled and I'll give the. Give Willard, who's our great, you know, audio engineer, and he's sitting there watching. But Paul sets up the entire project because he's a project manager. And you know, he coordinates it with you. He coordinates it, you know, with, with your team. And then afterwards, you know, this all goes to Paul Culligan, you know, who's the person who then takes the recording and makes sure that it's, you know, it can be put into this form and go out into the Internet and everything else. But none of that other stuff happens if you and I just don't get started talking.

Exactly.

And I guess, you know, we haven't done a perfect one yet, but they've all been great, right?

People give us feedback that they love. What they're learning that this has been very useful to them. And we now have a whole slew of people all over the world that are improving the way that they make money and run their businesses and take free time and become more effective. Simply because me and you decide to get on, you know, an episode and record it and just make it happen.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and so much in the world today, that's the approach they have to take, is that your brain doesn't really get engaged until you're in motion, you know. You know, there's, you know, I mean, I'm a great believer in action. Not because I think action is the be all and end all, but my brain doesn't really get serious about doing good thinking and my mouth doesn't get real serious about good talking until I'm in motion. And I've actually, you know, there's a deadline, you're on the other end, and I gotta talk, I gotta think, you know, I gotta do it because you're involved and, you know, I want to do a good job for you and you want to do a good job for me. And then there's teams depending upon us and everything else, and you know that. But all that. And that's not me as an individual. That's not you as an individual. It's a whole team. We're making it up. They are going to make it real, you know, Paul and, you know, and everybody else. And then there's people who make it recur. You know, they have the technology that this gets brought, you know, this gets cast over and over and over again so that, you know, we're making it one year, but it'll be heard millions of times over the next five or ten years.

Well, totally. So let's talk about something you just said there. Because when I first started in business, like many people, I started off as a lone ranger. I didn't have any money. I just had this idea and this thought. I wasn't born into a family with money. I basically had nothing other than, you know, the great fortune of being able to, you know, have use of all my limbs and my ingenuity with my brain and, you know, living in America and that sort of stuff. But that being said, I didn't have any financial resources. I didn't know what the hell I was doing when I first started. But I put it together because I did take action. And if I would have let perfectionism stop me from starting my first business in the very beginning, I never, you know, we never would have had what we both have today, which I still feel is, you know, we're always improving. But you know, we have teams now, we have resources, we have different ones. But these all came from, you know, taking action. And you know, you say perfectionism is a refusal to decide and to commit and procrastination is a refusal to take action.

Yes.

So if people right now are thinking, listening to this, going well, yeah, that's great for Dan and Joe because they've got teams and they've got people that they've put together. Well, yeah. Guess what? Exactly what we're describing by just getting on an episode and talking is how we started. You got to start somewhere. You know, that whole saying the best time to plant an oak tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now. You know, I mean, you got to start. And so you talk about how perfectionists live in an all encompassing world of shoulders, that they, that they should be this, they should have done that, they shouldn't have had this happen to them. How does someone in their mind that's just, you know, consumed with that, what are your recommendations for just stopping it? You know, like that video that you showed me on Bob Newhart. Stop it. You know, I mean, what does someone do that has that thinking that is just paralyzed?

Well, I think the, you know, a lot of improvement is just knowing the score, you know, that my mind does this. So, you know, I, you know, I have just as much a tendency, you know, towards perfectionism as a lot of people that I've met and I have just as much a tendency for procrastination. But I've simply recognized that it just doesn't do me any good, you know. So I said, you know, it's just the way, you know, I believe all human beings have this inside of them, but the only thing that cures it is action and communication and teamwork. And so I'm going to get something done real fast, you know, and generally speaking, you know, in my world, I make it up in about a half hour. I have a particular, you know, there's a tool in Strategic Coach that we call the impact filter. And I take 30 minutes and I just outline the project, you know, categories, you know, here's the purpose, here's the importance, here's the ideal outcome, best and worst, and then my criteria and immediately, you know, and it'll be like, Paul Hamilton is here and I have three other direct project managers in different parts of my kinds of work that I do and I simply send a PDF off to them and I Said, I'd like to get together and I'd like to talk about this. And then they look it over and we get together and I say, you know, this. Do you understand what I'm saying here? And we walk through, you know, maybe it's a half hour, and they ask questions. And I said, you real clear about what we want to do? And I said, yeah. And they said, okay, I'll take care, I'll take it from here. And they're off and running. And I just had an example. We have our first app which is going to be out in a couple weeks. It's a phone app. And I wanted it back in, you know, three or four months ago. And so I just created a little half hour overview of the project, sat down with another one of my project managers and I took her through it. Top to finish is Kathy Davis, another one of my great project managers. And I said, you real clear? And she said, absolutely clear. And in two weeks it'll be delivered. And my total time on that project is the hour, the half hour I spent defining the project for myself, and then the half hour I took her through it. And the whole thing is in, you know, in three months. Totally. It's got bells and whistles that I could never have imagined. I mean, she picked out a top app company. They know how to connect with all the networks, they know everything you need on an app and everything else. See, she wasn't the person to create the app, but she was the person to make it real. And then they make it so it can recurring. And more and more my life is just about these little half hour bursts of making it up. One of my project managers makes it real and then, you know, and then there's other people or specialists who make it recur. And so going back to the whole thing. Well, sure, you guys have teams. Well, there was, there was a lot of time when we didn't have teams, you know, and you know, and you know, we've known each other for a long time and both of us have a lot better teams now than we did when we first met. But you have to, if you commit yourself to the 80% approach, you'll find the team. If you commit yourself to, you know, not having your life ruled by perfectionism and procrastination, you'll find the great talent around you who would just be delighted to take your ideas and make them real and make them recur out in the world. The world doesn't respond until you take the first action. The world does not respond to People who say, well, I want it perfect and I won't start. Well, the world just doesn't have any time for those kind of people. So I've said, if I want the world to help me, I better take the first step.

Completely agree. I remember seeing a sign. It was, you know, one of those. It was a storage unit, you know, where they have, like, storage units and people rent them. And it was in Arizona, and it had, you know, one of those signs where they actually have to physically. Not a lighted one, but you physically go and you put the little letters up on the thing and they kind of fit in the little slots. And it said. It said, you don't build a great reputation by talking about what you're going to do. And I love that because it's like, yeah, how many people are talking about what they're going to do? But they never do what they're going to do. They never write that book, like you said. And so one of the things I want to point out before we wrap up this episode is that this is going to be something we're going to talk about on a regular basis. We'll bring it back into all of the episodes. Because one of the things that I've learned through being in Strategic Coach for many years, going on 14 years at the time that we're doing this episode of being in Strategic Coach is that you don't just, boom, get this concept, all right, I heard it, I got it, and I'm perfect the rest of my life. I mean, this is like working out. You don't go and do a great workout, and then all of a sudden it's done. I mean, this is a consistent development of habits. And that's why it's. You know, one of the reasons I've recommended so many people to Strategic Coach is when I have some people that will, well, you know, I don't know if I can take the time or, you know, it costs money. And I say, well, first off, you know, what other area of development for your life is more important than you becoming a more skilled entrepreneur? Because the more skilled of an entrepreneur you are, not only are you going to make more money, but you're going to do things more effectively. And, you know, why are you doing this in the first place? And one of the beauties of it of being in coach is that left to your own devices, most people won't think about this stuff and they won't work on it the way that they can do it. And Strategic Coach. And so something like strategic Coach And I would even say my group, you know, it never takes time. It makes time because it allows you to become more effective. It doesn't cost money, it makes you money.

Oh yeah.

So I mean, this is not like recommending people buy something and that they're not going to get a return. They're going to get a massive return. That's why we call this 10x talk. This is what you think about, this is what you do, this is what you learn. These concepts is what is needed to grow your company 10 times. If you really want to go deep with it. That's why you involve yourself with other people with unique capabilities. One of the things that you say is that preparation without engagement is worthless. And I've got some of your writings in front of me and you say, Dan, I've noticed that when I've tried to prepare without being engaged in a project, my judgment about the preparation after the project is completed is that it was essentially worthless. The reason is simple. My preparation without engagement makes the project more complex than it needs to be. I'm only using a small part of my intelligence and creativity and I have a very little sense of religious urgency, risk and excitement. I learned very little and I gained little or no confidence. Now, the reason I read this is because you said that with 30 minutes of preparation, doing what you call an impact filter, you can just take an idea, a thought, you can hand it off to someone after you've made it up, that can make it real and then the team can take it on. And if anyone is hearing this going well, you know, feeling a little overwhelmed, I really want to put a magnifying glass on how you think. Like, how does Dan get so much done and have more free time than probably 99.99% of every successful entrepreneur I've ever met? You have more free time while you simultaneously are running a multi million dollar company. While you have a tremendous amount of confidence while you're doing the things you want to do with the people that you want to do it. I mean, you are simply revealing just by, through our conversations on 10x talk how you do it. And this is a formulaic system, meaning other people that are hearing it, if they adopt it, they can actually get similar results. And you take things in chunks and you just, you handle it right then and there. And I want to see if you can elaborate on that a little bit and then we'll wrap up this episode and you know, until the next time.

Yeah, well, you know, I, first of all, I'm a leader. You're a leader. And I always remember one of my, you know, favorite films, and I've probably seen it about 10 times, is Patton with George C. Scott. And, you know, it's about the, you know, the incredible speed with which Patton went across, you know, Europe. I mean, the Germans were just terrified of how fast this guy moved. And there's a scene where Patton had a silver helmet that you could, you know, if the sun was out, you could see him from two miles off. And he had, you know, pearl handled, you know, six shooters. And he always stood up in his jeep and he was always right in the forefront. So he's coming down the road, he's in. It's either in France or Germany. And he stops and there's some GIs along the road and they say, general, where are we going? And he says, well, I'm personally going to Berlin to shoot Hitler, you know, and, you know, and the language in the film was a little bit saltier than that. But, you know, and, you know, I said, I mean, who could get behind that? You know, I mean, you know, I mean, it's not like, well, we're going to try to move our front over here and we're going to have sector six and everything else, you know, I mean, and then he zoomed on down the road and, you know, if you're a gi, I don't care how tired you are that day, you know, you probably picked up your pace and you said, well, you know, if he's going to do that, well, we're really going to help him and we're going to really move. And I think that that's really what leadership. And, you know, there's probably. He didn't know exactly how it was going to happen, you know, but he knew he had to be in motion and he had to give other people confidence and he had to give people a sense of direction. And he very clear cut gave said what the end. This is how we're going to measure success. He says, Hitler is going to be dead. And if I have a chance to do it, I'm going to do it and I'll do it with these six shooters.

That's great. That's fantastic.

You know, and all great leaders I've ever seen just have that ability. You know, they just say, I'm going to be the first one to move and I'm going to start moving and I'm going to do it whether anybody else is moving and I'm going to do it whether anyone else has bought my idea. But I'M moving. And then other people see the movement and they say, well, you know, he's moving, so I'm going to take it seriously.

Absolutely. And the best way to get other people to engage with you is to get yourself engaged first and you have to move first. And I've heard you say, Dan, and I don't know if I know you didn't come up with this line, but I've heard you say the fish rots from the head down. And the point is, I saw this really strange movie years ago called Vanilla sky. And there's a line in that movie where they say every passing moment is another chance to turn it all around. And everyone has that moment. So those of you that are listening to us, take this as a cue to give yourself some time slack. Go for an 80% approach. The first 80% you do is going to be good enough most of the time. And if you take this approach, it will not only allow you to just start doing a lot of things that are weighing you down, that aren't going to ever get started if you don't take action, but it's also going to really mentally free up a lot of angst and unnecessary stress. And to find further help and development with this, if you want it and need it, then check out Strategic Coach. Just go to strategiccoach.com and if you're a successful entrepreneur that wants to become even more successful, then, you know, get engaged in a conversation with Strategic Coach. I mean, I even tell people, and this always sounds like a clever sort of setup, sales pitch, but I've told a lot of my successful friends that I know think they know it all and are kind of resistant to this sort of thing because I know how helpful Strategic Coach would be to them. I'll say to them, you know, if you just want a model of what a great company is and how they operate, just literally get on their list so you can see how they market to you and how they treat you. And I do that as a setup because ultimately I really want them to join Strategic Coach because I know it'll help them. But I'll say that sometimes because I want people to basically put their toe in the water if they're kind of resistant to doing this. But this is sort of my way of kind of pushing someone along. And the other thing is, it's actually true when someone interacts with Strategic Coach, they will see unique teamwork in action, how a really well run company is run, and how they engage with people to be helpful and useful. So you know, call Strategic Coach if you're not going to go on the Internet and, you know, check them out. Their phone number is 416-531-7399. Or if you're in North America, you can call them at 1-800-387-3206. So that's the 80% approach, Dan. Fantastic. What are your favorites?

Well, I just wanted to say something. You know, I play favorites, you know, in the program I treat everybody unequally and, you know, and you're one person I treat more unequally than anyone else in the program. And you see, I could have a, you know, electronic Rolodex, you know, and I've got a directory of 500 people and 500 numbers, you know, and these are people I'd really like to get in touch with. Or I said, I've got Joe's number. And I'll just say to Joe, you know, Joe, I'd really like to get in touch with so and so and within the same hour or the same day you've made contact for me. And I said, he just saves me such an enormous amount of time. But the other thing is that you have one of the most encyclopedic, you know, knowledge bases about marketing, you know, concepts and tools and methodology. And it would take me 10 years of study to get to know even half of what you knew 10 years ago. And, you know, and so, you know, and it's a reciprocal teamwork. And, you know, I'm pushing 25k and I'm pushing Genius Network. And you know, people say, well, why, you know, it's $25,000 a year. And I said, yeah, but the first hour that I was in 25k, I got an idea which in the last three years has been worth about 3 or 4 million dollars to me. And that was just the first hour. And I said, and the reason is that he's just the most plugged in human being on the planet. So just to pay $25,000 just to hang out with him is just such a, I mean, it's got, you know, I mean, you know, I've had, you know, personal assistance who cost me 50,000 where I knew I had made a mistake at the, after the first 24 hours. And then you, you know, I said, it's nothing, you know, it's a nothing. So, you know, I mean, it's. And you know, we're just thinking in 10 times, you know, this is 10 times logic. And this is, you know, this is the way the world is going so, you know, and you know, I don't have your address, but it's just 25K dot com. Is Joe or Genius?

25K group?

Yeah, yeah, 25K. But, but you know, I mean we're, you know, we're each other's biggest fans, but we have just so much proof of why that would be, you know, and other people have. Other people are their biggest fans. Well, I said, well, take advantage of them, you know, use their skills, use their connection.

Well, and there's a good point there. And see, this is where a lot of people could interpret this as like, oh, you guys are just trying to sell us something. Like, oh, really? Yeah. Well, first we're trying to sell you on the fact that you can have a bigger future and it's obtainable. And that's why we put out knowledge like this for free because we know it's going to land on some people ultimately. Do we hope that they become part of our programs? Yes, but we're not trying to get everyone, we're just trying to get people that it absolutely resonates with that it's a right fit and really are smart enough to see that there is a collaboration happening here because together we help make each other better than we do by ourselves. And that's why even when people are in the 25k group or in Strategic coach, a lot of them will actually be in each of our programs. Because anything that we find that's going to make people better as entrepreneurs, we're going to certainly recommend that. And that's why we will continue to do this as long as we find it to be helpful and useful not only for other people, but to ourselves. And that's why we do this. So thank you so much, Dan, and another great episode and for all of our listeners, you certainly probably heard something that someone other than you could definitely benefit from by listening to. So share this episode. We would really appreciate it since we put this out at no charge and is a service for the affluent, successful industry transforming thinking entrepreneurs. Put it out on your social media. Please share it with anyone that you think would find it useful. And if you want to check us out at 10xtalk.com, you'll find more recommendations and resources for myself and Dan that can help you be a more achievement focused, successful entrepreneur. So thank you, Dan and thank you to all of our listeners and we will talk to you next time on 10X Talk.

Take care.