Rigged for Sickness - Countering the Unseen Forces Shaping American Health Feat. Calley Means

If you actually control for contagious and infectious diseases, take the advances of those out. Life expectancy has been flat the past hundred years. All of the trillions of dollars of chronic disease. You know, innovation has actually done nothing. I actually think it's been negative. There's no data. The American Academy of pediatrics said that 50% of 12 year olds are overweight or obese to be nozempic. This is a lifetime drug. And the American Academy of Pediatrics, paid for by pharma, literally said it's not Ozempic shouldn't be like a down the road. Once other interventions fail. It should be an emerge like a very urgent frontline intervention. That's what we're dealing with here. Ignore the, or at least be very skeptical of the system on chronic humans and animals we've domesticated that have chronic metabolic issues, chronic obesity, chronic diabetes, like we're born. And this is why I think it's a spiritual crisis with an innate sense of what's good for us, of what we should be eating. The fear of death is really weaponized. I do think there's like this huge profit incentive to weaponize our fear, our dopamine, our attention. And I think the largest interest in the country, the medical industry, really profits and leans in to do what we say or else you're going to die or you might die.

I'm about to introduce one of the smartest humans that I know in an area that is so critically important to your own health, the welfare of the world, children, etc. So Callie is the founder of Trumed, a company that issues prescriptions for food and exercise, enabling tax free spending on items promoting health. He's also the co author with his sister, Dr. Casey Means, of a book that's about to come out on food is Medicine called Good Energy. He started his career as a consultant for food and pharma companies and is now an advocate for changes to these industries, lobbying the White House and 50 members of Congress and appearing on outlets such as Fox News and the podcast of Tucker Carlson, Barry Weiss, Russell Brand Impact Theory and Mark Hyman, just to name a few. He's a graduate of Stanford and Harvard Business School. Give it up to my friend Callie Means. Awesome. Great to have you here.

Oh, pumped to be here.

Yeah. This is not too long ago you were the 100k group that we did here and blew everyone away. You're just great to have you here.

I'm so grateful for this network and for you shining a light on these issues.

Yeah, thank you, thank you all right, so I've got some prepared questions, but I may go off script and if we have time, you know, that's never happened. We could also take a couple questions from you guys, but we could spend all day once you hear what he has to share. So my first question is, imagine you were able to overhaul health in America in any way you saw fit. How would you restructure the incentives within the health system?

This is, I think, the biggest problem in the world. I'd sum up as 95% of healthcare costs go to interventions after we're sick. Just the raw, unemotional statement of economic fact is that healthcare is the largest industry in the country. It's the fastest growing industry in the country. And every single institution that touches our health wants us to be sicker, fatter, more depressed, and more infertile. That's just the bottom line. Fact that as I talk to leaders in Congress, business leaders, you know, across the board, it is shocking how few people understand. Again, not a conspiracy, just a raw statement of economic fact. Medical schools make more money when we're sick. Insurance companies make more money when we're sick. Most people don't understand this, but they can only take 15% profit margin. So they want the pie to grow and they can raise premiums, that is people getting sicker, and they just want to get a bigger, bigger part of that 15%. So insurance companies are fundamentally incentivized for us to be sicker. Pharma companies obviously make money on interventions when we're sick, and hospitals make money on interventions. That is the core problem in the country and what we have to do and we have to understand. And as we go, Joe, you know, I think we, you know, both go to these thought leadership things where people are talking about health care reform. I'm shocked among smart people how, you know, it's changing. Page, you know, 300 on the Medicare Part D legislation. It's, you know, you talk to Congress, it's very incremental, marginal things that's playing the game of a system that's making us sick. And fundamentally, I think we're committing genocide against particularly kids. I mean, with 33% of kids now having pre diabetes, 50% of kids being overweight or obese, I mean, this is a moral absolute stain on our country. And unless we understand that it is taking that 95% of medical spending that goes to interventions after people are sick, and we have to ask how those incentives are impacting us, and on a public policy level, we need to ask, how can we Actually, it's simple. But how can money actually steer towards things that keep us healthy?

Gotcha.

Yeah.

All right. So let me ask you, because I introduced you, but in your perspective, tell people who you are and what you actually do.

Yeah. So I grew up in Washington, D.C. in the swamp and as a swamp creature. But I think I had good motivations. I really wanted to be in D.C. my whole career and impact public policy. So went to Stanford, studied economics, political science. My sister, my best friend was there too and was smarter, much smarter than, you know, pre med and went to Stanford med school. But I was on the political track. So after school, went and worked on some campaigns and then was surprised. But after the campaigns, I was sitting. You know, it's bipartisan. You go and work as a consultant and you work for food and pharma. Pharma spends five times more money on public affairs lobbying than the oil industry, by far more than any other industry. And it's bipartisan. You're sitting with them. And what I realized and what I did early in my career is it's very simple what these companies do. It's funding institutions of trust. So my job was actually just to steer money to groups that we trust in America. So one of my first couple weeks, I steered money to the NAACP and working for Coke. And the NAACP took millions of dollars from Coke and said it was racist to take food stamp funding away from sod. So 10% of all food stamp dollars, which is 15% of lower income Americans depend on for core nutrition. 10% of all that money goes to soda. And obviously there was bipartisan uproar about that. And Coke was able to pay civil rights groups in those meetings. They kind of racialized the debate. And now still kids are getting subsidized. Coke, $10 billion a year on food stamps, a couple more. We funded money to medical organizations. The American Diabetes Association, I help millions of dollars from Coca Cola to the American Diabetes association of all groups. American Diabetes association sets the standard of care for diabetes until 2018. They said if you're diabetic, you don't need to change your diet. Which is just kind of hard to fathom. I was shocked. As an early employee, young employee, I was meeting with doctors from Harvard and Tufts Nutrition School. I learned that food companies spend 11 times more funding research than the NIH for nutrition. And studies were produced. These sound laughable, but saying sugar doesn't cause obesity, saying lucky charms are healthier than beef and eggs, and that sounds ridiculous. These studies sound preposterous, but those studies are coming out of Tufts Nutrition School, they're coming out of Harvard. And what I learned is you then take those studies to Congress, right? You take those studies to school boards. So we funded those studies and then took them to people, to lawmakers who don't understand nutrition, are like, you're anti science if you don't fund ultra processed food. And then the last thing I'll just say is we had a very deliberate strategy from offices in Washington D.C. to fund the media. And I think this has been talked about a lot. But more than 50% of TV news spending ads are funded by pharma. More than 50%. And the key point there is that this was not a strategy to impact consumers. It was a strategy to impact the news itself. So I think you saw during COVID Covid was a metabolic condition. Covid. I call Covid a foodborne illness. If you were metabolically healthy, if you had the good metabolic biomarkers, you had almost 0% chance of D dying of COVID at any age. It really preyed upon metabolic and healthy people. There was no curiosity in the media about that at all. You know, obviously the media was fully a pharmaceutical issue. That's because the media is more than 50% funded by pharma and they have a direct line from pharma to the media and everything. Where's the curiosity on mainstream media about these statistics on childhood health that I mentioned, which is clearly the biggest issue in the country when 25% of teens have fatty liver disease, you know, and 33% are pre diabetic? That is where independent media is gravitating to, whether it's a comedy podcast or Joe Rogan or health podcast. The most popular independent media programs in the country are basically metabolic health programs. I mean, they're basically talking about what's on everyone's mind, which is that why are we getting so much sicker and more depressed? Why are 25% of women are on SSRIs? Are those working? Why are 40% of high school seniors have a mental health disorder? That's actually what Americans are gravitating towards. But no curiosity on the news. And that's directly because we paid off the news. So that's what I did early in my career and just real quick got out of that have been starting companies the past 10 years. What catalyzed this as my life's work is two things. My sister, who I said was much smarter than me, was a top for class Stanford med school, top head and neck surgeon, abruptly quit the medical system when she Stared down at a patient, her third surgery of the day, sinus inflammation, and she didn't understand why that patient had inflammation. She realized that she didn't take one nutrition class at Stanford Med school and that 80% of her courses were on pharmacology and realized that the system's really rigged. Had an out of body experience, left the medical system, had a huge impact on me. She's become the advocate. And it's all came together, these incentives in 2021, when my mom, our best friend, we thought very healthy, was taking a hike, had a pain in her stomach, was told she had stage four pancreatic cancer, dead 13 days later. And the oncologist said it was unlucky, but it wasn't unlucky. My mom is the classic American story. And really, I think what ties all of this together is that she was on six medications and she was on the statin for the high cholesterol, the metformin for the high blood sugar, the ACE inhibitor for the high blood pressure, all the signals of metabolic dysfunction. Take a pill, it's fine, it's normal. If one time a doctor said, explained her that that represented underlying issues in her body, talked about the root cause, if they wrote her a letter of medical necessity, which our company trumed does, talking about how exercise and exploration on more unprocessed food can actually subside. Those metabolic indicators that would have prevented, Absolutely, would have prevented the pancreatic cancer. But the incentive of the system is for us to rack up comorbidities and get sick. So my mom, that abrupt death really catalyzed our mission. And Casey and my sister and I are really working to change that.

Wow. Yep. So that gives a little understanding why you do what you do. So what do people need to do to become proactive, preventative and holistic, focused rather than reactive as it relates to treatments and their health?

Yeah, I've got a couple. Like Casey and I really have a couple messages we want to say. One is just super simple. I think we all need to realize this. We should differentiate between chronic and acute conditions. I think I used to be a big defender of the medical system. I think we really make a mistake in not differentiating between acute and chronic. So a lot of the times, if I heard myself talking a couple years ago, I'd be like, okay, well, the medical system still is a miracle. You know, life expectancy has increased. We've got the best medical system. We've got all these medical miracles. Any medical miracle you can think of probably right now is for an acute condition. And that medical miracle was probably created before 1960. Sanitation procedures, you know, emergency surgical procedures like childbirth, which 2 to 3% of women used to die from in 1900. You know, burst appendix, gunshot wound, you know, these emergency procedures have really helped. And I mentioned antibiotics, potentially some vaccines, like these things were all created before World War II. And that is what has propelled life expectancy forward. As Peter Attia mentioned early in his book, if you actually control for contagious and infectious diseases, take those out, take the advances of those out. Life expectancy has been flat the past hundred years. Like all of the trillions of dollars of chronic disease innovation has actually done nothing. I actually think it's been negative. What's happened is that the birth control pill was the first chronic disease treatment. So there's never before the birth control pill in 1960, there was never a pill that you took for a recurring period of time. And the medical industry, taking huge trust with antibiotics and basically being credited with winning world war, saw that they could take this trust engendered, but then convince us that the medical miracles equal chronic treatments. So in 1960 we spent almost zero percent of our medical budget on chronic disease. Today it's over 90%. So all medicine now, for the most part, the vast majority is basically managing chronic conditions for life, which is a brilliant profit incentive because we don't get cured. So that's why there's 4.5 billion prescriptions written per year in America. And that's, you know, like my mom, the average American patient is getting on the ssri, getting on the statin, getting on the metformin, you know, and eventually getting something that's going to kill them and having treatments for that. The record of chronic disease management in this country has been an absolute scandal. Like there's just a pure unbiased looking at the data. We should be extremely skeptical. Unless we're going to die imminently, we should be very skeptical. When the doctor's reaching for the prescription pad on the statin or these other conditions. Like we could do much, much worse than listening to them. There's no data to listen to them. There's no data. When the American Academy of Pediatrics says that the first food that kids should eat is ultra processed food. And all these pharmaceutical recommendations they make completely co opted organization that's 90% funded by pharma, there's no reason we should listen to them. The American Academy of Pediatrics just last month said that 50% 12 year olds should be on Ozempic.

Hey, I hope you're enjoying this video and I want to let you know that I have a new book that's come out and if you'd like to get it absolutely free, there's a link below in the description or you can wait till the end of this video or you can Simply go to joesfreebook.com.

And you can get a copy there. This is a lifetime drug. 50% of 12 year olds are overweight or obese. And the American Academy of Pediatrics, paid for by pharma, literally said it's not Ozempic. Shouldn't be like down the road once other interventions fail. It should be a very urgent frontline intervention. Like that's what we're dealing with here. So ignore the system or at least be very skeptical of the system. On chronic we're the only animals in the world, humans and animals we've domesticated, that have chronic metabolic issues, that have chronic obesity, that have chronic diabetes, like we're born. And this is why I think it's a spiritual crisis with an innate sense of what's good for us, of what we should be eating. There aren't obese giraffes and wolves in the wild, but 60% of dogs are obese that we domesticate. Right. And actually I don't know how they study this, but like 70% of dogs are depressed, you know, so when you take an animal and put them in sunless rooms like we do with kids in schools that are sedentary and basically force feed them 70% of their diet ultra processed crap and then give them weapons of mass destruction for chronic stress like phones and dysregulate their sleep, which we do, they're gonna go crazy. Like that's the problem. So unpacking that and really, really seeing that chronic disease management doesn't fall within the doctor's office. That's the high level point, I think the most important point that American patients need to understand.

Yeah, that's.

Wow.

So in by the way, there is a positive side. He's very good at offering solutions. Now think about what you will get to. And these are not questions that he gave me, these are questions that were drafted. And I got to give credit to JR and my team who we've been through a lot of stuff with your materials in trying to find what would be some things I could ask you today that would be most beneficial for everyone here. And just what I want to hear myself. What's the most shockingly unethical thing you've seen in your career and how did it impact you?

That's a great question. I think that I'd like to unpack the Ozempic thing a little bit because I just think it's a case study and it ties back to what I saw earlier in my career. But I think it's just useful to understand really specific cases. So I think a lot of us have heard about Ozempic. I'm a libertarian. People can take whatever drugs they want. The, the problem is just following the money. So Zinpic has made. The company has made 420,000 payments to doctors. This is publicly available. Last year, one of those doctors who has paid over $100,000 and stands to really profit from this drug being approved widely and government funded, went on 60 Minutes, said that obesity is a genetic condition. So it's a Harvard doctor. Obesity is genetic. And she said throw food and lifestyle out the window. She also said it was racist and an example of systemic racism not to have government approval for this drug. The company is now the 12th most valuable company in the world. It's a European company, the most valuable company in Europe. It passed Louis Vuitton. 90% of their profits are projected to come from the US. This is not the standard of care in Europe. It's completely because this company from Denmark has paid off doctors. They're the largest, they're one of the single largest funders of the news in America. And 60 Minutes itself which ran that program then they are one of the ten largest. This company from Denmark is one of the ten largest individual lobbying spenders of US politicians in the country and paying of donations. So they've paid off the majority, literally directly paid the majority of U.S. congresspeople. And they've got a bill to have government funding as a frontline defense for any American who is obese or overweight to jam them with a weekly injection for life. The box says that there's horrible metabolic impacts if you go off the drug and the instructions are to take it for the rest of your life. Make obesity into a thing you manage, don't cure. So it's just, you go down the list. They've paid off the doctors, they've paid off the news, they paid off the politicians themselves, they paid off the medical groups like the American Academy of Pediatrics. And the reason I think this issue is so shocking and so important. Again, the 400 pound diabetic person who's morbidly obese. Like I don't have any comment on them. I'm talking about the median American and the median American child. They're pushing this on 5 year olds, by the way, they're literally doing research on five year olds. So in the midst of a metabolic health crisis where I can't go to a playground without seeing processed food littered everywhere, where we're literally poisoning our children, where SSRIs and metformin and antidepressants are popped like candy in high schools, where we're getting kids just on this chronic disease treadmill, obviously, because the environment and what's kind of these simple kind of metabolic habits that we're disincentivizing our kids on, if there's a time to stand up and say we need to change course and this gets the solutions. And I do think there's optimism here because it's so damn simple. It's like stop poisoning kids. It's like stop. Literally just focus on ultra processed food consumption. Just as a country, if we focus on that one metric, Japan, it's like 20% here, it's 70% in Japan, I think, I don't know if I mentioned the childhood obesity rate is under 4%. You know, here it's over 20%. This is not complicated. But instead of like actually like getting to the root cause, we're about to have the most widely prescribed drug in the country push. And once that, once that government funding happens, it is open season, right? You, any parent in this country is going to get unrelenting pressure from their doctor to get their 12 year old on this drug. So it kind of puts together a lot of the playbook that I saw early in my career. But I think this is one of the biggest actual issues in the country right now because I think it's really not a point of no return, but a pretty bad path if that drug is going to be government funded. The last thing I'll just say, why I think it's really distressing is and I think this is just representative of the medical system as a whole. That drug is going to be $15,000 of government money per patient per year. You know, we spend as we know, 4.5 or so trillion dollars on interventionist based healthcare. It's like, what if we took that $15,000 and say you were on this planet, saw that Americans are poisoning themselves with chronic metabolic dysfunction, which is leading to 9 out of the 10 leading causes of death in the country. Totally preventable. Would you say we should jam everyone with a shot or would you say let's fix our food system? It would be much less than $15,000 per patient per year to just fix our food system. We could give Every lower income kid a car to go buy caviar, organic caviar, there a whole year for less than that. I mean, literally they could go to Whole Whole Foods and just buy whatever they wanted all year. So that's the battle we're in. And I've been very grateful to be dragged into the public conversation, really trying to do whatever I can from a lobbying standpoint. On the positive, pivoting slightly. I think we're in a national conversation this year. Whatever you think of the candidates, RFK is catalyzing this conversation and impacting the whole conversation. He's getting 20% of the vote in the three way race. And again, just obviously brings a lot of emotions here. But Trump is talking a lot about broken institutions. So I think, you know, and I think it's animating people on the left. This is a bipartisan issue that I do think there's appetite in the country to really solve.

Yeah, no, totally. I love your line too about if the fish tank is dirty, you don't drug the fish, you clean the tank. That's right, yeah. So what's your vision for TRUMED in reshaping health behaviors and outcomes?

Yes, I'll talk a little bit about kind of how my thought process for the company we started, but hopefully this just helps in some way. Just the framework that I think we all need to get behind. So I think there's bottoms ups and tops down. The bottoms up is we need. I think that the optimistic part about really understanding how broken our chronic disease management is is that we can really feel more empowerment. And I know we're all on that journey of ourselves to question or to take more empowerment ourselves. I think it's so destructive. You know, trust the science, trust the doctors. We should trust ourselves when it comes to chronic conditions. I was just talking to, you know, we were talking about muscle building and how women are, you know, often told not to gain a lot of muscle. Muscle is like the longevity organ. We're basically just getting the reverse advice from everybody and we need to take more common sense ourselves. So that's the bottoms up. But I really do think the top down is vital. Sorry, the question was.

Yeah, so your vision for TRUMED in reshaping health behaviors and cusp and outcomes.

So my theory, my theory with TRUMED was like, how do we actually steer money to interventions that actually keep us healthy? It's so simple. But that 95% of money that's trying to get us sick and then manage the condition. So what TRUMED does is we actually found in the tax code that you can use tax advantaged medical dollars on food. Nobody even knows this. You can literally buy food with HSA, FSA dollars. There's $150 billion in these accounts. 80% of Americans have access to them. You know, they're basically sitting there waiting for you to get sick, go to drugs. If your doctor says you have pre diabetes, you should eat healthy unprocessed food. You can use those dollars for food. You can use it for your gym membership, you can use it to buy a cold plunge. And our thing that you know, to a lot of people, I think before that sounded a little frivolous, it's direly serious. It is medically much more effective for somebody to buy a cold plunge or buy their Equinox membership or buy their organic food with medical dollars than be on this pharmaceutical treadmill. And the IRS has actually been clear about this, that actually if you have a targeted note from a doctor that counts. So that's what our company does through a telehealth process. We literally hired the same people who the lawyers who created these telehealth processes for hims and these pill mills which I'm not mission aligned with. But like the prescribe Adderall online, we hired the same team, we created a process that writes notes for broccoli and exercise or pasture raised meat. And that in the past five months has really taken off. We've diverted $100 million of tax free money that's sitting there waiting for people to get sick, $100 million to exercise and help healthy food. And it's growing really exponentially. We're working with CrossFit, 24 Hour Fitness, Daily Harvest, many of the leading health and wellness companies. That's what our company does. I would say it is actually very important. You can, food is medicine. Literally you can demand from your doctor before they prescribe that chronic disease treatment, you can actually demand from them a letter of medical assessee for exercise or food. Most doctors probably won't even know how to write that. It might get you on a path of functional medicine. But that's what I would say is the food is medicine. Exercise medicine isn't a buzzword where I think this goes from the bottoms up. And I know where a lot of us are on this journey. It's like if you're struggling with something that you don't know kind of what the issue is or you don't feel like it's right kind of being on this pharmaceutical treadmill, I just, just so many People. It is so inspiring being in this work, just hearing how when people go to a functional medicine doctor and get a detailed blood test and really get some biosensors like the glucose monitor, and really understand truly what's going on inside their body and then takes personalized action. It's absolutely transformative. I don't know anyone who's done that and really committed to that who has not transformed their life. We're totally lost our way in how we deal with this usually. And my mission in life is to steer money. We were talking earlier. Money. Every American should have just free functional medicine, blood tests to understand what's going on in their body. They don't. Right now in 20 states in the country right now, they don't even allow you access to your medical records. You don't even technically own your medical records. There's this war to almost protect us. Think we're too stupid to see our medical information. We need to just incentivize that. So that's what Trumed represents.

Yeah. That is good stuff. Okay, so you're holding it in your hands and writing your book. Good energy. That comes out soon. You did it with your sister. What was the most surprising thing you learned, and what's the most immediately actionable piece of advice you could give to people to stay healthy at any age? This book is about to come out.

Yeah. The shocking thing for me. And what's the core point of this book, is Casey graduating from Stanford Med School and having to choose between 42 medical specialties. Right. So a doctor, the way you advance in medicine is siloing the body. And the book gets into this. But that is a very intentional process, literally. Written by John D. Rockefeller in 1909, the Flexner Report actually completely just shoved away holistic medicine or any type of metabolic view or interconnectedness of medicine and said we need siloed views of medicine. That flex report in 1909 that basically created our system of how doctors are trained is still the guiding document for medicine today. And it was all about siloing because John D. Rockefeller was the modern, you know, the father of the modern pharmaceutical industry and wanted to silo disease so they could be treated. It's very orchestrated. And that leads to my sister graduating from Stanford Med school choosing between 42 specialties. She focused on the head and neck, then was about to do a fellowship, basically focusing on like 3 millimeters of the face. The dean of Stanford Med School had a disease named after him and did an even more specialization and was like 2 millimeters of the face, like that's how you rise up in medicine. And the key point here is that there's so much incentives to make things complicated again, if you have an acute issue, see the doctor, that's great. But the book really tries to make the point that it's simple. The most simple, actionable advice is like literally if you cut three ingredients out of your diet. Sugar, obviously, ultra processed grains and seed oils. Those three things. If you scan the labels for those three things, that advice, in my opinion, is more impactful than every single nutrition study ever conducted in the last 20 years. There's been 50,000 nutrition studies, peer reviewed, created in the last two years. It's all obfuscation, it's all confusion. It's all to basically tell us some ultra processed food is not good. If you literally just hunt on your label for added sugar, ultra processed grains, which takes the fiber off, basically just hidden sugar hits your bloodstream, probably covered in a ton of glyphosate, really bad. And then seed oils, also created by John D. Rockefeller as an industrial byproduct to oil production, he lobbied to get them approved as food. Extremely processed inflammatory oil that's now the top source of American calories. If you can. It'll be magic if you can rid those three things from your and your child's diet or at least try to limit them. Throughout the book we have just very simple principles. I'm a huge fan of Huberman and Attia and these optimization guys. I think they've done a lot of good things, but I think we have a bad incentive in the health kind of influencer ecosystem. You know, they attack different forms of exercise. They say you need more zone 2 or you need more this. I don't think there's an epidemic of people moving for 150 minutes a week being unhealthy. Like the key thing is just starting, like literally. And that inevitably puts you on a path of curiosity. We've got the diet wars confusing us, the vegan or the carnivore. Obviously, if you go on any, I guarantee, right, there's not an epidemic of people trying to eat non processed foods and ridding those in their diet and like becoming super unhealthy. And inevitably it leads to a path of exploration where you figure out what's right for you. Especially if you add in blood tests and more bio observability, which we give detailed plans for the book. So I would say it's just we are being confused by design. Like that is what I did early in my Career. It's how do we fund more studies. We didn't give, we didn't care what this nutrition studies said. Right. The fact that there were just more and more and more confusing people was the point. So we lay out the problem. We make the overarching thesis that we don't need incremental changes. We need to change those 42 subspecialties to a metabolic view of health. 90% of medical costs, 9 out of 10 killers of Americans are the same thing. Heart disease, kidney disease, diabetes, many forms of cancer, Alzheimer's, which is now called type 3 diabetes and highly metabolic related. You can attack all these things with the same thing. And that's what we try to lay out in the book.

Yeah, that's great. And so it's called good energy. KC means so go ahead and pre order the book because it's about to come out soon. The way that I met Callie was our good friend Ann Atkinson. She said there's someone here that I think you really would hit it off with. And I think we spent like damn half a day or something afternoon just talking. And that was last year. And realized wow, we share so much of the common beliefs. And so yeah, really, really good what you said about exercise and movement and how easy it is for people to distract themselves. Let me ask you about seed oils because I'm noticing I don't know if the average person out there, there's apps, there's one app I have for seed oils and I don't even like going out to most restaurants because even restaurants that make good tasting food oftentimes canola oil, just the crappiest oils and you could even. It's interesting because I'll see places that will advertise grass fed beef but then they'll be using some shit oil. Right. Explain healthy oils Vers. Because even though this is a little nuanced but I wanted to ask you about that because I.

No, of course. So just at the highest level I would be skeptical or in the past listening to this because it's like, oh, there's all these dietary fads this that maybe seed oils are not in fashion now, they're in fashion later. I think at the highest level our core biological needs are not being met. And what we do in the book and kind of my framework and I think the framework for public policy we should have is really like what we evolutionarily are made to do. Like we're not evolutionally made to eat food that was created 100 years ago. Seed oils at the foundational level are not natural foods. They're a highly. You can Google videos of how they're made. It's absolutely disgusting. And you know, my sister, as I mentioned, doing the sinusitis surgery, not realizing why the patient had sinus inflammation so bad they had to be knocked out and cut out, not even being reprimanded when she looked at the charts and asked whether the diabetes and the depression and the heart issues, cardiology issues that the patient was also seeing doctors for, whether those are connected, didn't even speak to those doctors. Right. You know, fundamentally what seed oils to me represent is we have inflammation. We've got all these random problems popping up because inflammation is our body's response to foreign substances. It's usually a good thing, but we are being bombarded through a lot of ways with foreign substances. Now, I wouldn't want to go back 200 years and trade modern conveniences, but this is a cost of modernity. And that is why our body is just. You'll have a lot of doctors throwing these, these bs, peer reviewed studies saying seed oils are fine, it is a foreign substance. And the healthy fats, I mean, they're things that humans have eaten since the dawn of humans. I mean, squeezing an olive and getting some of the oil from an olive that you can just do yourself, grass fed butter, avocado oil, if it's made correctly. It's things that are just easy to understand how that product is.

Yeah, like coconut oil. I mean, I will sound kind of funny and I know this is getting a little nuanced, but I make a lot of hard boiled eggs. So when I travel and when I go to a restaurant, if I'm gonna eat breakfast, I'll oftentimes get eggs poached. So they're made in water. I was staying at a hotel last week for a360 and it's a thousand bucks a night at this hotel. And almost everything's made in shit oil. And it's just like. So when we cater food here, healthy oils, healthy organic foods, I purposely pick food here that's going to be healthy because it's not what most people are getting at other places. And I'll carry sardines with me when I travel in case I'm going to be. Because everything is just even. You take healthy meats or healthy vegetables, but then you soak them or fry them in, grill them in seed oils, you're just, you're just polluting what could be a healthy food.

Yeah, I mean fundamentally our framework is our cells are under threat. And with the interconnected, as we talk about with metabolic health, organs are nothing more than are essentially groups of cells, interconnected systems of cells. And with seed oils and these inflammatory things we're eating and the way we produce food, that's just not biologically how food is what our body's used to, that's causing damage to our cells. And then cell damage is eventually organ damage. And organ damage is disease. It could be in our brain, it could be in our liver, it could be throughout our body. Something kind of a framework that's really helped me is like we're really good at differentiating. Like most things like if these two glasses of water, one had arsenic in it, we'd understand like don't drink the one with arsenic. One thing, beef, I mean grass fed beef, has A completely reverse omega 3 to omega 6 profile as grain fed beef. Literally the types of fatty acids are completely different. It's reversed. So how animals are supposed to be raised, how they've been raised since the dawn of time, eating grass outside in the sunlight, they have a much higher omega 3 content in the beef that we would then be eating. But we've put industrial farming, give them GMO corn, soy type products inside, cramped. Their actual makeup of the meat itself is much higher omega 6, which is much more inflammatory. So it's actually like we don't even like, I think most doctors, they don't actually understand and see the food we're eating and what's done to it for the core components of it. Our job with food is to match our biological needs. There's been a lot of talk about this, but with seed oils, too much higher omega 6 content which just caused more inflammation. So it's really just hunting and being more knowledgeable and being this path of curiosity and we have the ability to do that. But yeah, that's to me, what seed oils represent. Yeah.

Thank you. Now you know what to look for. Get educated folks. That's what we're doing here. We're just trying to educate people. Just here to serve, just here to serve. What's something many people take for granted is true or accurate, but it's actually just propaganda designed to profit off people's health. And how do people avoid getting taken advantage of? Now you've already spoke to this to a degree, but we'll see if you want to add anything to that.

Yeah, I mean the fundamental, I mean we have a chapter in here called trust yourself, not your doctor. I would just really, that is the fundamental, the fundamental point I would make. I guess another thing and what we end the book with is that the fear of death is really weaponized. I think there's almost like the spiritual crisis we have, or I do think there's like this huge profit incentive to weaponize our fear, to weaponize our dopamine, to weaponize our attention. And I think the largest industry in the country, the medical industry, really profits and leans in to do what we say or else you're going to die or you might die. And there was a real powerful experience with our mother abruptly dying. The greatest fear I ever had in my life. And just realizing it was okay. I mean like realizing that she actually, you know, got hundreds of letters in her final days from people she impacted. My sister and I actually, my sister made this incredible medical point that my mom, all those letters, she actually literally changed those people's genetic makeup, their structure of their cells, when you meet someone and have an interaction with them. And we really had this feeling that she lives on in us. And it was actually the most horrible moment I could have ever expected, was actually a very positive, positive moment in realizing that. And there was a slight just lesson there of like how I think we're being lied to and really gaslighted with this kind of fear and you know, cells and people can exist, well and thrive in a state of fear. And I just think there's something to unpack there and how the most powerful industry in our country, the healthcare system, really kind of weaponizes that fear. We unpack that. But, but that's something I've been thinking about a lot.

So here's my request, just for time, do two questions. Two questions.

So.

The two hands I saw were boy, Jennifer and Tim. And if they're quick, then we'll come to you. I'll do a third. And there's probably people online, but here's the thing, if someone asks questions for online too, if you don't mind, we won't be able to answer them all today. Of course I'll be happy ask you to come back and. Because I think this is so damn important and I know this will impact everybody if they really take it seriously. So go ahead, Jennifer.

This was phenomenal, like absolutely amazing. And I'm so aligned to so much.

Of what you shared.

And my question is, how do you have conversations with family members that aren't following these practices in a way that is inviting? I know for me, like, I have.

Gotten to the point of a bit.

Of acceptance, but it crushes me when I see family members drinking orange juice.

To quench their thirst.

To giving my 6 month old nephew an ice cream sandwich and giggling at how happy he gets when really he's cracked out on sugar and he, his, his stomach hasn't fully developed yet. So how do you build that bridge.

For the people that we love so.

That it doesn't land as woo woo or granola?

Can I mention one thing too? For one, take this recording of this interview and share it with anyone that will watch it. Secondly, my first interview with Callie is fantastic. Share that and then whatever he's going to say right now.

So after my mom died, my sister and I felt very enlightened. We actually, it's a whole other story but did our first psychedelic, kind of very intentional experience together and really felt like we had the secret to the universe and like having these healthy habits. We felt so enlightened that we very aggressively screamed at my dad every day for having. So we're like, we're enlightened. You need to be enlightened like us. And it actually, in the months after, after my mom's death, our relationship with our dad was somewhat strained because we felt like he wasn't, you know, he was eating some Fritos or something and I felt like it was, I saw it red. I felt like it was a personal assault on our mom's legacy that he was eating, deigning to eat anything that wasn't healthy. And my sister, who's much wiser than me, we actually had a conversation about this and she had a very interesting perspective that had a huge impact on me. She said we need to be comfortable if he dies tomorrow, that our moment with him is more important. We don't know how long he's going to be and actually wasting those precious moments. If there's another lesson from mom's death, it's like we just don't know and we need to just have good energy and he needs to live his life. And the second, interestingly, we started changing our energy and just kind of focused on ourselves. He actually ended up changing. So I get very upset. You know, obviously I think it is. I think it is. I don't have the words to express even though it's normalized how wrong it is I think to be feeding a six month old sugar, which is totally normalized. But I really try not to comment or really even feel I sometimes do. But like that's my thought is that everyone's got to make their own decision and that that usually just doesn't happen through command control. And then again that had a big impact on me, literally Being okay with my dad doing things we didn't support. Because that loving energy, I think, is the only way to maybe even change people. And then we wrote the book, and there's so many great books out there on content and sharing content. I mean, that's what I generally do. But I would just say I think we. Joe and I have talked about this a bit. I mean, I'm not an expert at this area, but to me, we have kind of this addiction crisis that we need to unwind. It's like I feel like adults are addicted to ultra processed food and sugar. And there's almost like some denialism and almost like, I think psychologically makes them feel more okay with it, giving it to their kids. And it's a way to placate kids. And now there's, I think, a massive addiction crisis with kids, so. And I almost think there's like this weird denialism that we need to unpack and have compassion for. But those are my frameworks. Just battle it with love and not too much judgment. And I think so many people are waking up. This is like a virus spreading where we're seeing it. And I do think more and more people are seeing it, and it is changing culture. So that's my hope. Yeah.

You know, I just noticed just now that we're both wearing kind of interesting socks. And mine are very non narcissistic because they have the name of my book, what's in it for them? For anyone watching on video, and my name, Joe Polish, right here. But I just noticed that I have those socks too.

Yeah, I know.

We try to give them to people to share the narcissistic tendencies. Yeah, no, these are great. You know what I really love is when people call us up and they want more pairs of these socks. And I'm like, we are happy to send these to you because at least, you know what's in it for them, Tim. Yes.

All right, so thank you so much. Something I believe is that we are under four pillars of health destruction. And that would be big food, big pharma, big insurance, and big health care, all underneath the umbrella of big government. And a perfect example is, you know, the vaccine schedule, right? 1963 vaccines to almost 80 to 90 right now in 2024, you know, we have doctors who are in allopathic healthcare who are treating the symptom and not the root cause. Big government, just as, you know, recently this information act, you know, getting the myocarditis and the vaccine, they redacted 148 pages of every word in that document, the CDC did that. So what do we do and what can we do as individuals and also, you know, who have companies and communities to really turn this around and make this four pillars of health transformation. Yeah, well, my goal is I know everyone knows the system's corrupt, et cetera. I'm trying, you know, trying to hopefully add more specific stories on that. And my goal from the Bottoms up is that we just all, you know, like we talked about, it's a cliche, but it's at home. I mean it's really just waking up on how just utterly wrong. And I take it all from kids. It's like it is just, it's hard to process how wrong we are right now with the normalization of what we do to kids. It's just like, it's actually like almost scary to realize how wrong it is. And I think just radicalizing and empowering people to think differently about that from the Bottoms up and just I think the energy of us in this room, I know what you guys are doing. Just like being on a different path inspires other people. So that's the bottoms Up. I would say to this influential group in this room, I want to be clear. I don't think we can continue to survive or win this battle with the top down incentives as they are. I think it goes to the average person. People do follow incentives and we subsidize ultra processed poison and healthcare only kicks in to manage disease once you're sick. We have to fundamentally change that. My thing is I don't think Americans are systematically trying to kill themselves or want to be unhealthy. You know, this has all just happened in the past generation where now 80% of American adults are over obese or overweight. I'm a free choice libertarian guy, but I don't think it's actually people being lazy and wanting to do this to themselves. We have to change the top down incentive to where when somebody goes in with pre diabetes, the doctor, the standard of care is to put them like they do in Europe, quite frankly, Europe. It's a keto diet that is literally like the. They subsidize the keto diet, they help the pre diabetic patient with that. Like this is very easy to do and I'm happy to follow up with anyone. That's one thing I'm really trying to push on. Meeting with rfk, meeting with the White House and meeting with the Trump campaign and lobbying in Congress, there actually are very actionable things we can do. And we have to also Be focused on marshaling top down change, particularly, you know, people in rooms like this. We're not going to. This is the most existential issue. Health care costs are growing faster than any other industry. It's going to be 40% of GDP in 15 years for each dollar we spend, more outcomes get worse. We're destroying our human capital, we're going to go bankrupt. We are becoming infertile, literally losing our ability to reproduce as a species, which is actually not even too hyperbolic. So there's got to actually be top down change. I won't lie about it. We've got to actually make this the core issue that we talk about in the country. Which again I'm actually somewhat hopeful on.

Yeah, not enough time for you.

Kidding.

We'll just still do it because you have this look on your face like uphill. I'm a terrible moderator for stuff like this.

Great, great. Turn around.

Okay, cool. Well, so I'm a mineral geek. I'm all about, that's my whole thing. I studied about minerals and you know, there is this idea of coming from the top down and changing systems and of course that has to happen. But there's also this incredible potential because what every single person in this room is dealing with and all of the people who are even more so people who are getting food from the food bank is mineral deficiency. And when you just were talking I was like a light went on in my head and I was like so how do I, as a company that has an incredible mineral product that can help so many people. Our mission is to remineralize humanity and how do we get engaged in something where we can actually provide minerals for people in lower income brackets.

Well, this is my life's work is we should be funding your product with Medicaid, with SNAP food stamps, with HSA, FSA dollars. That is truly where the rubber hits the road. Like you are frontline healthcare creating that product. Gym owner. A gym owner, an entrepreneur that it's hard to start a gym. I'm talking to thousands of gym owners. We're trying to empower them. They are true frontline health workers in my opinion. Entrepreneurs that are creating good supplement companies, good food companies. That is where this $4.5 trillion need to go. At the highest level I think hopefully you're seeing. And we're seeing bottoms up pull. And there's obviously a trend towards people being radicalized, seeing how broken the system is and spending a lot of money on these products. But what I and it would be great to talk about our company's doing this now, but there's a lot of lobbying and advocacy and this is what we have to do. That is where the rubber hits the road. Trillions of of dollars need to go to companies. I see it as a tax on modern life. Just one other quick example that I find interesting is artificial light is like an invention in the past 150 years. It's totally hijacked our circadian rhythm. It's actually causing. The research is coming out. Crazy amount of problems. Our body is literally evolved based on sun and a cycle. I don't want to give up artificial light, but like, we need to, like, we need to actually, like really be deliberate with our health policy about putting in the minerals and putting in these. We're being robbed of some of our core biological needs and we need to like, actually like the base of healthcare needs to be correcting that.

And how, but how would you, as a, as a. I mean, I had a great conversation with a woman named Earthrin Cousins. I'm not sure if you know her, and she is all about ending hunger, but the problem is ending hunger is the food bank, you know, right now, which is filled with UPFs and crap. Right. So, you know, I'm really asking, like, how would you say a company like mine or me, as an advocate for mineral replenishment might have an impact in that arena of bringing minerals to the mainstream?

Content. Yeah, I mean, I think content and what's happening on independent media and bringing those messages to light is a historical, extremely important thing and is chipping away at society right now. So I think content is extremely important in evangelizing that. And I think that can impact society and laws eventually. But that's one thought.

Yeah, I mean, look, I think one of the reasons that a lot of people are here is to figure out how to get their message out. It's unique packaging, it's putting books, podcasts. I talk about this thing because of all things, it was on a packet of sugar. And this was years ago. And my weird ass brain remembers this stuff. So it was like a little truck stop in between driving from one city. I mean, years ago. And it was a sugar packet in like a little cafe. And it said the caption was advertising. And it said, he who has something to sell and whispers in a well is not as apt to make the shiny dollar is the guy that climbs the tree and hollers and, you know, so it's like if you got something to say, you got to say it. You got to keep saying it. You got to put it out there and look what they've done with propaganda. I mean, look at the amount of how much they have manipulated people. I mean, it's an oversimplification. But you know, they didn't make the vaccine for Covid, they made Covid for the vaccine. You know, and that's my belief. A lot of people argue with that and I, you know, the Robert Malone thing, a genetic modification technology that, you know, this whole, they've co opted everything like, you know, trust the science. I mean, what the hell does that even mean anymore? They've taken the word science and they've turned it as a way to manipulate. They've turned it, you know, in the same way that, you know, Hitler uses swastika where he took a peace symbol and reversed it and used that as an entry point in order to create some sort of trust just to do what he did. And that's the same thing that you see so many of these companies and so many. And so people like you are a hero for coming from that dark place, leaving it same with your sister and saying this is wrong on so many levels. And you have a lot of people that do not like you because of how outspoken you are about this and you still are on this path and you're like, you know, look man, this is our kids, this is our lives, this is, you know, so follow Callie on X. I'm going to post something on my ex too because I just don't have enough people that even respond to shit there. And what I'll do today, I'm going to take my interview with him and I'll post it. And if you interviewed on X, share it. The first interview I did with him, I'll get this interview and we'll put it up online. Share it with anyone that you think would find it valuable. Pre order the book, get the book. If you got other questions for Callie, I'll ask him to come back in a future one. Let's keep it going so we can keep educating you. Because ultimately if you plan on living a long time and being healthy, I think this is really important to learn and hear and also protect yourself because this is really about protection, you know, as much as what to do. You also need a shield because there's a lot of evil forces that are telling you to do this, do this, do this. And they do not have the best interests of you or your family or all they care about is money and they've sold their souls in a lot of ways. So last thing I'll ask you, you're given three wishes for anything at all. What do you wish for?

Oh, man, I didn't see that.

Man.

I really just go to empowerment. My head goes to that. We're in a health crisis, represents a spiritual crisis. And the key to happiness is actually just taking more empowerment over what we're putting to our bodies, our soil, these core metabolic habits. So it's for people to be on a path of empowerment. It's for people to not fear death and for people to. Critical thinking and just independent thinking. I think that's really. There's a war on that right now with our information sources. And I think it's. I think it's a key. And that's a battle, I think, right now, I think a historical battle we're in to prevent us from thinking for ourselves.

Yeah, well, there's a lot of medical people that are here and health people and health coaches and ingenious sound. We've got probably close to 20% of the people in this group. And so I know this resonates with you. How many of you learned something today?

Yeah.

Awesome.

Awesome. Thank you for the opportunity. Joe, thank you for shining a light at this. And yeah, on Instagram, you can DM me and would just love to follow up with anyone this resonates with. And just great to be on the mission with all you guys. Thank you.

Awesome telling you. Thank you, Bill.

Thank you.

Okay, I hope you found that video awesome and useful. So if you want to get a free copy of my book, I want you to click here. And if you want to watch some more videos that will be useful and awesome, click here.

Go ahead. You're over here. Do it now.

Come on. Thank you. Watch them.