The 4 Marketing Secrets You’re Missing: Position, Brand, and More!

Life is downhill, the wind to your back. Pretty easy. Get any of them wrong, you're going uphill, the wind in your face. Highly unlikely you're going to succeed. And I'll explain each one, but just the four things briefly are position, differentiation, benefit and brand. Position is nothing more than a hole. Hole in the marketplace. What hole in the marketplace can you occupy that no one else is occupying there? And you, by the way, privately, that's something you just, and I like to use the example, say of Rupert Murdoch, so Roger Ailes, 20 years ago, they're thinking about setting, building a national cable television news network. They don't sit there and say, well, CBS does this, we'll do this, ABC does this, cnn. They don't care what they do because they're going to occupy a hole in the marketplace right of center. 50% of the country is not being served by television news. Life gets pretty simple at that point. Okay, then, different differentiation is what you do publicly. So publicly they differentiated themselves from all the other television networks. As I mentioned to you yesterday, in a few weeks I'll be 82 years old. I literally go 12, 14 hours a day, five and a half days a week. Do not know the name of anybody that keeps up with me at any age. Plus, I enjoy every minute of it. Our company is 50 years old this year. We'll mail between now and election day next year, November, about 150 million postal letters, 2,300 million emails. We have 75 employees. Most of them are really high powered direct marketers operating at a very high level. 1961, I get the opportunity to go to New York to become executive secretary of a political youth organization that had been founded a few months earlier, earlier on Bill Buckley's family estate. So I run this organization. I'm in charge of everything, including fundraising. And I found out real quick, like I didn't like asking people for money. I asked some very famous people for contributions. Charles Edison, youngest son of the inventor J. Howard Pugh of Sun Oil Company, Captain Eddie Rickenbacker of Eastern Airlines. And they were generous, gave me nice contributions, but I didn't like that. So I started writing letters that seemed to work. I got something called a mimeograph machine, started turning them out with a mimeograph machine. Hired secretaries, a few here and there. And after a year and a half, I said, hey, I want to be relieved of all duties in the organization except fundraising through direct mail. I want to focus on that. Did that for a year and a half. And by then I had a wife and Two babies. And I said, I'm out of here. I'm going to start my company. And I thought I knew everything there ever was to know about marketing. Of course, I knew nothing. I didn't know a fraction of 1% of what I know now, but I thought I did. But what I was. I was blind in one eye and had blurred vision in the other, but everybody else was totally blind in terms of direct marketing. So I looked pretty good. But though I knew, I thought I knew much more than I did. Of course, there was one thing I knew I didn't have I needed.

And.

And that was names and addresses, people to communicate with. And in the summer of 64, I discovered that if you were running for president, you had to file with the clerk of the House of Representatives all of your $50 plus donors. I went down there for a couple of days with the legal pad and started writing Barry Goldwater's $50 plus donors. And I did that for a couple days and said, hey, Richard, you're not making a lot of progress here. So I hired five or six women, and after a couple months, I had 12,500. It gave me the courage, the confidence to quit a good job with a wife and two babies and go where no one had gone before. No one had literally done political fundraising through postal mail before. And that's one of the most important things you can do in life. We'll talk about that here in a little bit about branding. If you can at all. You want to be first, can you be first? And if you can't be first in some category, find a category where you can be first and where you can own that category. I've been in multiple groups of different times. People were talking about me, not knowing that I was in the group there. And they were talking about me because I was first. You know, who knows the name of the second pope who was the second person to fly solo across the Atlantic? You know, nobody knows. Okay, it's the first. So whatever, you know, find a category that you can own that you can be first in, and that's how you build your brand. So, anyway, I did that for the next 15 years and had no competitors, basically. And by the way, I caught a lot of criticism because I was doing something no one had ever done before. And I was regularly, literally regularly attacked on cbs, abc, NBC, cnn, New York Times, Time magazine, and Republicans and Democrats. The establishment was coming really hard at me. But all of the criticism stopped within a few hours. And a few hours was election night, November 1980. Aha. That's what Vigory has been up to, okay? And so the left had been relying mostly for their campaign funds on involuntary sources, the union dues, corporation foundations, et cetera. And so they ran out there real quick like, and tried to replicate, duplicate what we had been doing. And I told my conservative friends, don't worry, you know, it's taken me 15 years to do what I'm doing here. And besides, I'm smarter than they are. So it's going to take them 20 years to catch up with us. Not so. And within three or four years, in my opinion, the left caught up with the conservatives. And to this day, they do a far better job, the left does, than the right does in marketing. Think of the 2008 campaign. Obama had 3 million donors to his campaign. I haven't been able to see numbers for 2012, but it's something north of $3 million, plus 10 million additional names of his supporters on email. Huge Republicans had nothing like that. And so as a general rule, to this day, the Republicans are not doing the job they need to do to be competitive with the Democrats. So one of the things that I do to this day at age be 82 in a few weeks, as I said, I spend two to three hours every day studying marketing. Okay, I don't need to do that, but I do two to three hours, six days a week studying marketing. And that's the one thing I can leave with you more than anything else. Study, study, study marketing. I don't know of a competitor that I have on the right that spends two or three hours a month studying marketing. Okay? I've developed something that I call Vigory's Four Horsemen of Marketing. You've got to get these four things right and get them right. Life is downhill, the wind to your back, pretty easy. Get any of them wrong, you're going uphill, the wind in your face, highly unlikely you're going to succeed. And I'll explain each one, but just the four things briefly are position, differentiation, benefit, and brand. Position is nothing more than a hole, hole in the marketplace. What hole in the marketplace can you occupy that no one else is occupying there? And you do that, by the way, privately. That's something you just, and I like to use the example, say, of Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes 20 years ago. They're thinking about setting, building a national cable television news network. They don't sit there and say, well, CBS does this, we'll do this, ABC does this, cnn. They don't care what they do because they're Going to occupy a hole in the marketplace right of center. 50% of the country is not being served by by television news. Life gets pretty simple at that point. Okay, then differentiation is what you do publicly. So publicly they differentiated themselves from all the other television Networks with Bill O'Reilly, Megyn Kelly Hannity, Glenn Beck for a while, okay? That's how they differentiated themselves from the others. Third benefit is obvious. You get news and information on Fox, you don't get anywhere else, okay, Fourth brand. Brand is the ball game, okay? That's products these days are seldomly sold. They are bought, okay, I bought this week a new car or a new car. To me it's a few years old. But they didn't sell me the car. I bought the car, okay? They could have had hundred different types of cars out there. I was looking at my daughter's strong and wife's strong recommendation for a Lexus, okay? I wanted a Lexus and that was it. I didn't have to be sold. I bought that car. You go into the supermarket now, 40, 50,000 items to be sold. Not one salesperson in the store. They will check you out, but Nobody's saying no, Mr. Vigory, you shouldn't buy this brand of paper towels. Buy this one over here. I'm a viva man, I like viva paper towels. That's what I'm going to buy. I'm sure Bounty makes a good paper towel. But I've been sold before I walk into that store. And so brand is so important for success in your marketing. So position is what you do privately. Differentiation. You differentiate yourself from your competitors by whatever you do to differentiate yourself yourself. Benefit is number three and then fourth is brand, okay? And by the way, I do almost nothing in my life of any consequence, any important, without a four rip, four part plan. We used to get off a lot of us in the late 70s, early 80s, 2025, for a long weekend, Friday, Saturday, and we'd plot and plan for the title Bring conservatives to Power. And we'd come up with a problem. There was a young congressman from Georgia, part of our group of 2025, Newt Gingrich. He didn't invariably, when we came up with a problem, go to the blackboard. We didn't have whiteboards in those days. And he'd write four words on there, Vision, goal, strategy and tactics. An hour later we had filled in those four words and we saw a clear path forward of how we should pursue. See, and that's not the only way to do a plan, but that's a good way to do a plan, it's simple, doesn't take very long. And by the way, the number one benefit of a plan is not working. The plan, that's important, but that's secondary. The number one benefit of writing a plan is writing the plan. Because as you write the plan, it clarifies your thinking, it crystallizes you. Thought you wanted to go over here, but as you write it down, you say, no, I think I need to go over here. More of this, less of that. So the exercise of writing the plan is so, so important. Joe said yesterday that Dan Sullivan gives me a lot of credit for Reagan's election. Quite frankly, I appreciate the compliment, but it's nonsense. And I've seen different people at different times take excessive credit for Reagan's election and victories and whatever. And it reminds me of a slow moving freight train and somebody running alongside him pushing that freight train. Look at me, look at me, what I'm doing. Reagan with a freight train. And the rest of us had very little to do. The one thing though that was very, very helpful to Reagan was the, what was something called the New right that came into being in the mid-70s. And the entire conservative movement began to come together in the 60s and the 70s with hundreds and hundreds of new organizations. And almost every single one of these organizations was funded. They got their membership, they sold their books, they sold their subscriptions through direct mail. And Reagan, when he ran and lost in 76 and ran and won in 80, was running against the entire Republican establishment for the most part. Bob Dole, of course, Jerry Ford, George Bush, John Connally, Howard Baker, and they were getting the thousand dollar gifts. Reagan depended upon the $10, 15, 25, $50. And he had 250,000 of those people. And so the small givers through direct mail just changed American history. In March of 1976, Reagan is literally out of money riding commercial airlines. And his aide Lyn Knobsinger goes on and buys $90,000 worth of time on NBC. Reagan sits on a stool, much like this, I guess, for 25 minutes, March 30, 1976, and makes a 25 minute stump speech. The last five minutes he asked for contributions. About $1,600,000 came in. And that was huge back in 1976, turned his campaign around, allowed him to go to Kansas City that summer and get 49% of the vote against the sitting president and propelled him onward in 1980 for success. And if he hadn't been able to do that In March of 76, he would have never been the candidate that he was in 1980. A number of odds and ends here, but I know Joe wants to get to some Q and A here. But let me just mention a few things here. I know a lot of you are focused on marketing through the Internet and that's important. You need to do that. Obviously, we certainly do it at our company. But the workhorse of marketing today, in my opinion, is still direct mail. And when I started in 1961 in New York City, direct mail was the second largest form of advertising in the country. Today, in 2015, it's the second largest form of advertising in the country. And by the way, I understood that most people in the nonprofit community to this day and in commercial world as well, do not understand, do not comprehend that direct mail is advertising. Okay, so in the late 70s, David Broder, the preeminent political correspondent in Washington D.C. at that time, since passed on, just a giant at his time, came to see me and he sat down in my office and we had a casual conversation for an hour or two. This is late 1970s. He said, Richard, I'm perplexed. I've been all over Capitol Hill, the White House, et cetera. The Democrats have almost a two thirds majority in the House. In the Senate, got the White House, nothing is happening for the Democrats. They're not able to pass their legislation. And said, I've been to Walter Mondale's office. The vice president, he can't help me. Nobody knows what. Do you know what's happening out there? Well, I don't know, David, if this will be of help. But I began to explain to him what we were doing. Mailing 100 million postal letters a year, doing this and that, all under the radar. And when we were mailing those hundred million letters, we were very focused on passing legislation, mostly in those days trying to defeat the Democrats proposed legislation. Jimmy Carter saw him in an interview just this week complaining about he had. He announced in March, April 1977 that he wanted to change the election laws in four ways. Been devastating to the Republicans, like instant voter registration. Just show up on election day and say, I live down the street, I want to vote, federal financing of elections, et cetera. And so anyway, a friend of mine calls at night, woke me up at 10:30 and I said, paul, you know, we can beat this. He had just come from a meeting of Republican senators saying, we can't stop this, it's a bad idea. But it's a time has come and so it's going to pass. I said, we can defeat this. Let's Talk in the morning. I'm going back to bed. So we did. We got together for four or five months at my home, my office, et cetera, and we designed the strategy through direct mail, using it as advertising. And we defeated all four pieces of legislation. And to this day, Democrats are still complaining that it didn't get passed. But it was the power of direct mail. Just briefly, a few high points. There were some very good questions submitted to Joe here, but most of them weren't dealing with a lot of the weeds of direct mail. So I may get these questions here, but I'll just briefly say long letters output, short letters counterintuitive. And by the way, most of what we know about direct mail is counterintuitive. You don't want to go to a doctor with an appendicitis attack and say, doctor said, let's go into surgery right away. Great, daca. Whatever you say. By the way, where'd you go to school? Medical school? Oh, I didn't. I'm just a natural appendix puller. It just comes to me and funny, my father was a natural appendix puller, and his father said, no, you're looking for a deviant at that time, okay, it is deviant behavior to lay somebody on a table and cut them up and do what doctors do. Okay? So this, what we do is learn behavior. Most people, and you have to be careful about direct mail. It's very expensive. It does great and wonderful things, but it can also be very, very expensive. And you can lose a lot of money because people say, well, I learned to write in the first grade. I know where they sell postage stamps. What's the big deal? It is a big deal. That's why I spend two or three hours every day studying marketing.

So.

If you're going to do a big marketing campaign, get a professional involved. It'll reap great benefits for you. So long letters. I pull short letters. Short paragraphs are better than long paragraphs. Use one or two syllable words. Don't use big words that stop people in their reading. It's a wonderful book called the Man Nobody Knows, written back in the 1920s by a congressman. At the time, he was a major advertising executive, and the man nobody knows was Jesus Christ. And he described how he communicated with one and two syllable words. Christ didn't use a lot of three and four, five syllable words. Write to one person. You may be sending it to a million people. Write to one person who is a likely prospect. Summarize your whole mailing, if you can, in a PS Test. Test, test Test headlines, test offers, test price. A lot of you have names of your organization doesn't mean anything. So sometimes you need what we call a tagline, a sub headline. Joe, I like these coffee cups and these glasses, but Genius Network doesn't say anything. If it says something like the world's largest gathering of marketing professionals or something like that. Well, what's the genius? Is it, you know, the men's society? Is it, you know, PhDs, whatever it is. So just a little tagline on there indicating that this is a collection of the world's largest, you know, high powered market or something like that. So anyway, taglines, sometimes your name, it just doesn't, doesn't say anything. So you need to tell people what it says there. And so Joe, that could go on for a long time. But that covers the highlights. I wanted to say.

No, that's great, that's great. Hey, I hope you're enjoying this video and I want to let you know that I have a new book that's come out and if you'd like to get it absolutely free, there's a link below in the description. Or you can wait till the end of this video or you can Simply go to joesfreebook.com and you can get a copy there. Secret to marketing success in three sentences or less is what?

Read, read, read, study, study, study. And you know, there's hundreds of good books out there. I'd recommend read what you like to do, but mostly identify 10, 11, 12 books, which I do, and I read those and I read them like a textbook. I underline them, I keep that book, I buy. I give away hundreds of marketing books a year. But I have my copies of my books that I underline and I go back and reread them. I can go through a book in 20, 30 minutes because I've underlined the key parts two, three, four times a year. I have a friend who when he's six years old, was on a transatlantic ocean liner with Winston Churchill. Churchill looks at him and says, study history, young man, study history. Study history. So I say to marketers, study marketing. Study marketing. Study marketing. And if you really make an intense study of marketing, identify the 10, 12, maybe 15 best experts on marketing. Within five years, you'll be at the very top of your game. You'll be better than, you know, 90, 95% of the people in the country because the competition is quite frankly not that sharp out there in terms of marketing. Study, Study marketing. All right, if you give me your business card. I thought about it was too Late today. I've got a bibliography I'll be glad to send to you. But let me just tell you right.

Quick, if you give it to me, I'll send it to everyone because I know a lot of the books that you like.

I am a disciple of Al Reese, R I E S and Jack Trout. Whatever Al Ries and Jack Trout haven't written about marketing may not be worth knowing. Okay, These people wrote the book on marketing and you don't read Reese and Trout. You memorize them. They are really good. Now, they used to write together, now they write separately. And Al Ries writes with his daughter Laura. But the origins of brands, the 22 immutable laws of branding. I was reading them on the plane coming over here. I just go over and over and over and all of our top executives are required to read recent Trout. I think the best marketer communicator in America today may be Seth Godin. He's got a free blog. If you don't get his blog, you need to get it. It's every day, sometimes eight times a week. It's really, really good. Seth God G O D I N. He's written any number of books. And by the way, let me go back to Brandt. Position differentiation benefit brand. I live out in the country. Regularly pass fields of 40 black cows, 50 brown and white ones. Over here. They all look polite, can't tell one from the other. But one of those cows was a purple cow. And Seth Godin has written a book, Purple Cow. And so all of our goals in life is to be a purple cow. Not only for your business, but for you personally. You know, I tell a lot of. I speak before young people a lot, most of them single. I said, you know, you like to get married someday, and there's a lot of competition for that pretty young lady's hand out there. So how do you separate yourself from all that competition? The last thing I did before I left Houston to go to New York in 1961, the summer of 61, was take my girlfriend out to San Jacinto Monument battleground. That's where Texas won its independence in 1836 and asked my girlfriend to marry me. And I didn't realize it at the time, but I had serious competition. I'd gone away two weeks summer camp. National Guard came back and found out that Charles had really moved in. They were looking at homes, et cetera. Charles went on to be chairman of a major oil company. You know, it's serious competition, honey. Marry me and life will be like this. So that's your goal, to be a purple cow and separate yourself from everybody else out there.

So, Brian Kurtz, I've known for almost 20 years and you have done all kinds of things, including running the awesome company Boardroom Inc. Which was founded by the late Marty Edelston, who was a direct marketing direct mail genius, as are you. And of course I started in direct marketing and direct mail first learned about it in 1992. Before the Internet existed as a sales platform, I used direct mail and advertising in many forms of offline marketing to build and grow my business. First as a dead broke carpet cleaner who used marketing to transform my small company. And then I fell in love with marketing and then I started teaching it to other carpet cleaners.

Well, I used to come out here for the boot camps, which was just incredible. I mean, you were teaching them gold. I mean, these are carpet cleaners from all over the country and you're teaching them basic direct response techniques. Them being able to market at a level that world class marketers were doing in all other industries. And the carpet cleaners were lucky because they got you. You know, and I used to be amazed being there.

Yeah. And I mean, when you came out to talk to the cleaners, you were pretty awesome. You always been great.

I love talking to them because they were just so hungry for this information. And I remember, I just remember the first time I came out, you gave them a book, it was like this thick and it had, it was basically a how to be. How to be, not how to be a carpet cleaner, how to be a direct response maven. And it was, you know, the sample ads and you were basically teaching them basic direct marketing and basic direct response. And a lot of it was direct mail. I mean, back then, right?

No, and it still is. And what I've always said to people too is because anyone that's not in that industry, because, you know, now in Genius Network, I mean, you're part of the group, we have, you know, we have people, we have a billionaire in the group. We have people running, you know, 100 million to 500 million dollar companies, we've got about 15 people in the group that do that. And so what I've always told people is that if I can figure out how to successfully sell carpet cleaning services using direct mail and direct marketing and you've got anything even remotely more exciting, anyone could use it. Because what first comes up is a negative for some people saying, oh, that won't apply to me because I'm not in that business, soon realizes if you frame it properly that this applies to.

Well, we talk all the time about. I spend a lot of time now at conferences of quote unquote, Internet marketers. And it just blows me away that anybody would want to define themselves by a channel. We used to look at ourselves as direct marketers. Direct mail was a channel, space was a channel. When email came out, that was a channel. Direct response television, all of those are channels. And to not use everything at your disposal, you're not really doing justice to being the kind of world class marketers that you and I are and the people that we like to hang around with.

Well, let's talk about for people that don't know who you are because you've never positioned yourself as a guru. You don't go out there and you always downplay the knowledge that you have, but you have, you've mailed. How many letters do you think you've mailed?

You know, I tried to like estimate recently and I put it into some bio stuff now because it took me a long time to count it all because it was 1.3 billion pieces of direct mail and it was only over the last 20 years. And only over the last, only over the last 20 years. So I don't know what the total number would be. And of course I didn't, you know, lick every stamp and I didn't, you know, put every piece in the mail, but I was overseeing that kind of volume over a long period of time with an incredible staff of people who really understood the intricacies of how to do direct mail. And it's not just direct, it's database marketing. It's, you know, the thing that's been so fascinating to me in the Internet world is that, you know, we have a database of 9 million people on our database of people who bought something from us over the last 20, 25 years. And I tell people if they have a 9,000 name list or a 900 name list to not look at that audience and think about what's on that list and what they bought, how they bought, how much they bought and all the basics of direct marketing, which is what we call rfm, recency, frequency, monetary, which we can talk about if we want.

Yeah, we're going to, I'm going to make a little note of that.

Yeah. But I think that all of those things still apply even it's not just because we had a big database. So yeah, I can brag, as you say, you know, it's not bragging if you've done it, but I think John Wayne said that or something. I thought Joe Polish said that, well.

You can credit me and make me look better, but I definitely was not the first to say that.

Yeah, it's a good. And the thing is, it's not bragging to say, you know, you mail 1.3 billion pieces of mail, but what's really exciting is that we actually were targeting customers in a way that enabled us to mail that many names at an acceptable profit and loss because of the way we selected our list, the way we did our creative, the way that we looked at the whole process, which, you know, you can be a lot sloppier today. Right. I mean, the quote is, the quote that I like today is 75 cent. Marketing deserves $500 per thousand. Thinking. So 75 cents, we'll say it's the average cost for, you know, an email.

And for an email or I guess.

To send emails, about 50 to 75 cents a thousand. So I don't know, I use 75 cents. Maybe I'm overpaying. I better go check my vendors.

It could be.

Yeah, but $500 a thousand is, you know, a rate that you would pay with postage and printing. And, you know, we do magalogs and all kinds of different formats in direct mail. And if you're spending $500 per thousand to do your marketing, you better be thinking carefully about before you put anything in the mail. And I think that there's just a lot of haphazard marketing going on because email is cheap and anybody can get into business. The Internet, the beauty of the Internet is that the cost of entry is low. The bad news about the Internet is the cost of entry is low.

So people can be very sloppy. They don't think through. Through everything.

Exactly.

And they think because it's free, it's really free. When in reality, what you're saying, if you put some serious thinking into the offer, that's everything, everything, then the returns could be 10 times greater.

Well, Gordon Grossman was one of my gurus. He built Reader's Digest, and he used to always say that in direct mail that when you mailed a certain segment of your list, that if it was a bad offer and the wrong, select those names. Not to say that they're not going to respond next time to something else. But you've now kind of. You've kind of made them. The possibility would be that they might not respond as well next time to the next offer. And I don't think, you know, the online marketers think that way about the attrition of their lists. And I came out of the list business, too. That's really where I started. So going back to my history, it was more about the audience and the list. And I just love the idea that you have this list of there are no unique names, only unique lists. And so the assembly of that list. And online marketers have figured this out on steroids, right? I mean, knowing that they developed this tribe and they can give them so much good content before they really sell them something, those are the guys that are doing it, right? The ones that are just bashing their list all the time. They're not using that $500 per thousand thinking. And not only that, they have no interest in doing direct mail either, which is kind of like what you and I want to be out there talking about and saying, you know what? You could use direct mail even though you've never used it before.

Well, my hope would be that anyone watching this, listening to this, would become interested, intrigued enough to realize there is a ton of gold within their. Within their existing database, within their sphere of influence, within, you know, their affiliates, if they're an affiliate. There's a tremendous amount of untapped gold that most people aren't even aware that they could mine for it because they don't even know this mining methodology. It's like handing someone a shovel that can, you know, or a pick that can dig up gold, but they don't even use it. What I want to share with you on this, this particular sheet.

I'm going.

To go through it. It's the art of marketing your story. Now, this presentation here, in this short time that I have with you here, is just a setup. I actually am going to share with you interviews that I've done. If you want them, if you want them, I'll be happy to provide them with you. I have the top marketing podcast in the world on itunes every day. Currently, about 40 to 50,000 people listen to an hour of me babbling about something related to building and growing a business. So my podcast is called ilovemarketing.com there's over 200 hours of very valuable things on how to build and market your business. I'm also, I am speaking here because I am genuinely interested in the whole fascinating world of art and the reason I threw my first pot since I was 18 years old three weeks ago.

And it was good.

Yeah, it wasn't that bad. But I swear, it's like I still feel very clunky, but other than doing drugs, and this is going to sound so damn weird, other than doing drugs, When I used to do ceramics, that was the only thing where my head ever felt like it escaped, where I wasn't stressed out, where I didn't have this low level anxiety. And I've built a multi million dollar business. I reach a lot of people. I do a lot of cool stuff. I'm Richard Branson's largest fundraiser. I've interviewed Richard Branson more than anyone on business. You know, I've got Tony Robbins speaking at my next event. You know John Paul dejorie. I know. You know, I ran Arianna Huffington's last book campaign. I mean, I hang out with cool people. But you know what? It was when I was throwing ceramics where all of that other external crap that I do to try to feed my ego or do whatever actually made my mind feel good. And I'm really genuinely interested in art. And artists are interesting people. Some are very quirky, some are very weird, but they communicate in different ways. But we're all weird. I mean, this is like the. You see Star wars, right? This is like talking to the Star wars bar. I mean, just a bunch of quirky individuals. But I think entrepreneurs are the same way. Entrepreneurs are just weird, quirky people, but they're more like corporate athletes and so on. I love marketing. On our podcast we talk about how to frame your business. And so the art of marketing your story. Marketing is a story, your story. And it starts with where you are now. What's your story? How can that become the basis for sharing your art? I believe a painting or a sculpture or whatever without a story attached to it has meaning to you, but it doesn't have meaning to someone else unless you leave it up to them to make the meaning. And that's fine. And a lot of people may want to do that. But if you don't have a system for selling what it is that you sell, you're always at the mercy of the consumer system for buying, which is price. If someone does not have any other criteria on how to make a purchase, they're going to default to the only way that we know how to do it, which is price. So a couple things is the artist tools, before, dirty and after. I want you to think of your business from now on as having three units. There's the before unit, which is getting people to appreciate who you are, what you do to get business. That's a before unit. And what I write here is getting people to appreciate your art starts with appreciating where people are first. Where are they? Who are they? Understand your collectors and your customers. The during unit, after someone is doing business with you, when someone is sitting there and discussing with you and you're talking with them or they're looking at something, I would consider that they're kind of in the during unit. They're interested, they're stepping forward, foot into this place where they actually may actually purchase something from you either now or later. That's the journey unit. So to create art that stands out means differentiating you and your art. How are you positioning yourself and your art so it's experienced as unique? Positioning is critical. There's that saying, a picture's worth a thousand words. Well, a mental picture is worth 10,000 words. So when you can attach a story to something, a great headline, titling your art is just as important. I've helped many, you know, book authors become best sellers. And the title of the book in many cases is more important than the entire book. And a lot of people don't want to hear that. They're like, well, you know, I spent two years writing this book. Well, you should spend maybe a month coming up with the right headline and testing it and coming up with titles. And the same thing with art. After. After someone has given you money. Once someone has interacted with you and your art, what are they doing to ensure they never forget it? How could they share your art with others? Sending than thank yous, reinforcing the value. They got referral systems. I mean, this is such basic advice, but I've used it my whole life in business. I heard early on, be nice to the people you meet on the way up. They're the same people you meet on the way down. If someone gives you money, send them a personal thank you, follow up with them. When someone gives you money and buys your art, it does not satiate the urge and the excitement that they had for buying it. I mean, it doesn't satiate it like it's done. It actually excites the urge. People selling is like seduction. All of the stuff you do before you ask someone to marry you or go on a date or sleep with you or whatever, that's all the foreplay, it's all the setup. And if someone is willing to give you money once, they will give you money over and over and over again. And a lot of people don't realize that as soon as someone buys a piece of art, they are in the best possible state to give you more money or to give you a referral. So the after unit is what you do to orchestrate referrals. And with all of you here Every business card you have, every put those people into a database. And when you're here next year, send them a hey, it was so great seeing you last year. Send a picture with a piece of art that they bought. If you can take pictures with your clients holding the art, do that and send it to them. Now, some of you may not like doing stuff like that, but again, if you like money, I think those things help. So expanding your gift with marketing, you can impact people's lives with your art. And the bridge is marketing. Your mission and desire to impact the world will be supported by marketing. Marketing carries your message and did anyone watch the video? I know that Susan sent out an email where I have a video called a Selling Evil. Did anyone happen to watch that? Okay, did that make sense? Did you like it about blogs and Internet? It sounds like direct marketing, something in.

Somebody'S mailbox is just as legit in 2015 as it has ever been. Yeah, good idea.

Well, I will even say this like, there's three things you need in order to sell something. You need a product or service. So think of your art here as your product or your service. Okay? If someone's going to commission you to do something, you're going to go set something, something up in their home, like a sculpture or whatever. It's not just art, but it's actually logistically involved. So everyone has a product or service. You have a sales pitch, which is your marketing message or what you say about it, what you call it, and then a delivery system. And so what most people do is they focus on what it is that they sell and how do we tell people about it. Do we have a blog? Do we use Twitter? Do we use Facebook? Do we use search engine? Do we use direct mail? Do we use tv? Do we use radio? Do we use referrals? Do we use billboards? There are a bazillion people in the world that are happy to take your money to deliver advertising or information about it. But if you have a lousy pitch, then you could have a great product or service. So part of it is you have to have all three of those sort of things together. So to go back to direct mail, I love direct mail because for one, it's totally under the radar. Secondly, like I said earlier, there's less noise in the people's mailboxes today. I mean, how many of you got more mail 15 years ago than you do today? Like a ton. Like, hardly anyone does good direct mail anymore. And I mean, we make a fortune with direct mail because we have no competitors there. Like, if you're a single guy and you're going to go to a club, like, let's say, like, no positioning whatsoever. Okay. You know, like the thing I said earlier. If you're a guy and you're single and how many single women do we have in the room that's willing to admit it? Okay, let's. Can I use you as an example?

Okay.

Now, if Jossy's, like, at, you know, I'm someone that. And I like, tap on her shoulder and say, jossy, I'd like to sleep with you now. And she's never met me before. Like, first off, it's going to creep her the hell out. She should probably call the cops. I'm probably going to get slapped, you know? Now, unless it's some famous person or someone that Joci really already knows about, the chances of that being a good approach are pretty much slim. But that's how a lot of people actually do the marketing. There's like, no, you know, they go into an environment where it's super, like tons of people, but in direct mail, like, you're like the only one there. You're the only one there in the club. Right? And so the chances are much better, and it gives you an opportunity. But here's the thing, though. I'm not even see how many of you actually have sold things to people while you've been here. How many of you sold at least, say, 10 pieces of art, why you've been here? Okay, so those 10 people, if you send them a letter saying thank you, or you send them a picture and you drive them to your blog, or you drive them to your podcast, or you drive them to whatever you have online, then you can develop and nurture that relationship with people. So part of my thing is you want to build a database or you want to go to people that can even endorse you. See, what Susan is doing for all of you here is she's taking all kinds of different artists, and she does all of the marketing for you to bring them to this location. But your job here is. And the reason, of course, she wants a guy like me to come up and babble about my marketing stuff to you is to actually reframe how you think about your capabilities of selling. Because anything that you learn is really built around capabilities. If you want to make a million dollars a year, you're not going to make a million dollars a year with fifty thousand dollar a year capabilities. You got to have million dollar, your capabilities. So whenever I read a book Or I listen to an audio. And believe me, I invest a lot of time. I've read over a thousand books. I've got a few of my team members here. You know, I've got my assistant Eunice back there. I've got. Rachelle's been with me for like eight years. Eunice has been with me for, you know, 10 years. I would encourage you to hire someone. How many of you have employees? Okay. How many of you have no employees whatsoever? Okay. I think this is the artist's curse too. But again, some of you, that's just not your world and you don't want to have employees and you just operate better that way. So this is not like I think you need to do this sort of thing. It's just this is like, treat this like a 12 step group. Take what you like and leave the rest. Right? So what an employee is. An employee is a behavior rental agreement. Okay? Like, I have my video guy, Rakim back here who's amazing, and Chelsea, who's amazing. They're videotaping this thing. I'm renting their behavior right now. I pay them money to show up and take their capabilities of creating video and they're going to videotape this. And so since I'm speaking in front of a group of people, I want to repurpose this stuff. I want to have it captured. If any of you want to watch this again, if you actually liked anything I had to say, we'll make this video available to you so you can watch it again, whatever. But the thing is, like, when someone hires me, they're renting my behavior, which when someone's hiring you to do art, they're renting your behavior. And in your highest and best use of your time, your skills are worth a lot of money. And how much you actually get paid has everything to do with mentally how much value you put on yourself. When you put a price tag on a piece of art, the real sales job that you need to do, My core message here, the biggest sales job you need to do is not to all the people that are just going to look at your art or potentially could buy art from you. The number one sales job you have to do do is what? Who do you have to sell? Yourself. Exactly. And if you cannot sell yourself, you're going to do a really piss poor job of selling someone else. And so like Joe mentioned this earlier, there's two things in business that I don't think you should ever delegate. You shouldn't delegate the checkbook unless you want to get Ripped off unless you have real good measures. And I had one CEO in the past that cost me $2.5 million in losses because of a very bad decision that he made. And if you let someone else, if you don't count the cookies in the cookie jar, some people may take the cookies, okay? So don't delegate the checkbook and don't delegate the marketing. Some people are waiting to be discovered. Well, I'm so good, let me have someone else and come and do the marketing. And honestly it happens every once in a while. You see the Justin Bieber's of the world that get a great agent. And like him or not, Justin Bieber worked his ass off in the very beginning. Some people do get discovered, but talentless people rarely get discovered and get lucky. But it's so rare that people get discovered that I wouldn't rely on it as a strategy. So you have to get yourself discovered. You have to really position yourself, you really have to set it up. So do a sales job on yourself. And this will not happen overnight. But what I would encourage you to do is the number one reason people don't do well with marketing. And I have worked with tens of thousands of people in the world of marketing. The the people that don't do well are the ones that don't have a marketing mindset. They don't appreciate it, they don't respect it and they have some historical experience with selling and marketing. Like the used car salesman that didn't care about them but used high pressure techniques that tried to sell them. See, people love to be sold. They hate to be pressured. When you are selling art here to people and they really fall in love with your work and they are giving you money, it's not even occurring in their mind that you're selling them. When you see someone totally interested in something, ask them what do you like about it? How does that make you feel? People make decisions based on emotion. And of course you all know that you're artists. I mean you already know that. I'll tell you one thing that I taught a this is so weird. I don't even know why this stuff. See I'm so add that this crap just comes into my head. I was in a bar many, many years ago with a friend of mine. She wasn't my girlfriend though she was female, but she wasn't a girlfriend. And we were sitting there and some girl had this bucket of roses and she said, would you like to buy a rose? And I said, I go, no, I don't even like her. She's annoying as hell, but thank you. And she's like, oh. And I go, no. I go, she's just my friend. It's not my girlfriend, so I'm not going to buy her rose. And I go, however. I go, do you want me to tell you how to sell all these roses tonight? And she's like, yeah. And I go, if you do this, I swear it'll work. But it's, it's going to put pressure and guilt on people. She's like, yeah, tell me. So I go, don't go up and say, would you like to buy a rose? If the guy is with a woman, say, would you like to tell her how much you love her? And she goes, what if he doesn't love her? What's the first date? Well, I said, well, just say something like, would you like to show her how much of a good time you're having? If you go up to a guy and you say, would you like to show her how much you love her? And if the guy doesn't borrow a rose, he looks like a total jackass. How could he not do that? Right? So I just say this to her very. Just kind of not even really professional. I just like, I just said it to you now. I didn't even, it wasn't very articulate. I just kind of said that. But the girl grasped that. Oh, I just got to ask a question that links the buying of a rose to how he's feeling with his date or his wife. She came back to me an hour later, she was sold every rose something like 30. She goes, oh my God, that was the best line ever. Thank you so much. I sold them all. That is so awesome. It like changed your life. I then proceeded to share that with like about five other rose girls over the next whatever period of time. No one's ever come back and done it. Like she was the only one that followed my advice.

Okay, so let's see, where are we at? Let's try this one. Okay. Yeah. The next half billion dollars in launches. So you ever notice when Apple launches a product and people just, you're anticipating that you're excited about that. The market's just talking about it and everyone's just, they're counting down. It's all about anticipation. It's when is that product going to get released? People line up outside the stores, right? This guy, first in line for iPhone 5. Woo hoo. Put that on his gravestone. But they had these lines outside of the Apple stores. You ever noticed how I am an Internet marketer I sell stuff online sometimes servers crash. Well, the iPhone, I think it was the 4. The Apple site crashed. I'm like, okay, if Apple's site can crash, my site can crash. I'm good with that. But they do, what do they do? They do tens, hundreds of millions of dollars immediately, right off the bat from, you know, from 0 to 100 miles an hour right away. So I've wondered, how can we do that? How can we do that in this room? We don't have those resources, we don't have their branding, we don't have their advertising, we don't have their teams. How can we do that? So for 18 years I've been working on how we can do it, but actually that's bullshit because 18 years ago I was a stay at home dad and I was like, I was just desperate to make some kind of money to try to impact my family in some way. So I started publishing. I started publishing online. This is 1996. So back then, my first email went out to everyone I knew with an email address that was like 17 people. But it gradually grew from there. And I grew this platform, okay, I grew this platform. Anyone out here have a platform? You've got an email list, you've got a social media following. Are you guys just not willing to raise your arms or what? Thank you. Okay, so I gradually built up this platform. I did what they now call content marketing. So I published. And then I got to this point, well, maybe I can actually sell something to these people. But I was actually. We have born closers. We got closers in the room. Raise your hand proudly if you're a closer. So we've got some closers, right? You guys know what I'm talking about. You know how to sell. Unfortunately, I'm not one of you. I don't have that sales gene. So I had this little platform that was growing up and I was like, I. How can I sell something to them? And I was terrified. I was actually terrified to ask for the order. I was terrified to ask for the order. And that actually that little thing allowed me to sort of invent this process that has made all the difference. Because what I did was I romanced my people, I romanced my followers, and then I asked for the sale. I built relationship first. And even for the closers out there, you all do that, right? You all build relationships. But now in this day and age, we're able to do that in a way we never could before. We have the speed of communication, interactivity that we've never had. Before. So I tweaked this and I tweaked this. I did my first launch, some of you heard the story, that did $1,650. That was enough to make me do backflips. $1,650 changed everything with that first launch. But then I got better. I instantly knew I could get better at it. And I did get better. And I got better. Here's a photo. I put this in a book, but I've never really made this one public. That's actually me. I am at my kitchen table and I'm in a bathrobe. And this was not staged. This is actually when I did a launch. This is the first six figure launch I did. It was $106,000 in a single week. I did, I think like sitting there for an hour, you know, we did 28,000 in sales. And this is. That was like unbelievable, life changing money for me. So I gradually got better and better and better. And then in 2005, I started teaching it. And my students and clients have now done $500 million in sales. In fact, it's way beyond that. But that's the number I feel safe saying publicly. You know, I've got clients that have done tens and even one that's done 100 million in sales. So what I wanted to share with you is based on what I've learned. And you know, it's funny, cause I was thinking about like, I did just roll out this book. Okay, there it is. In fact, there's a book, it's in all your bags. I bought one for each of you and we rolled that thing out. And I was talking to Pollock Holligan and he's like, yeah, dude, I think the title of your talk, you should just go up there and say, this shit works. Because I came in, I was a completely unknown author, and boom, it was like up to number one. In fact, what happened was the first week the New York Times decided not to put me on the list, even though I had the same sales. And so then we doubled down. And I had several conversations with my good friend Brendan Bouchard and came up with a strategy how we were going to come back and sell even more the next week. And then we were able to put it up to number one. There's the proofs in the pudding. That was a screenshot. I got to print that one out and put it on the wall. So how do you do this? It all comes down to three things. Sequences, stories and triggers. And so sequences. You can't ever. You know, there's so much noise in the market now that to gather someone's attention you have to put your stuff, put your material into a sequence that tells your story. Then your story just. It's almost like what I call a sideways sales letter. We used to have these long form sales letters and they worked really, really well. Now they don't work as well. So I took that 10 page sales letter, I turn it sideways into a 10 day process. And now you do very much the same thing you do in a sales letter, but now you do it over a series of pre launch content of value videos. We typically do this now with videos that build over time. And then the triggers are simply things like we all use all the time, authority, reciprocity, scarcity. And in those three videos they allow you to, to deploy those triggers and you build up this anticipation just the way Apple does. And you get the situation where people are like, they cannot wait to buy. They absolutely cannot wait to buy. So you want to know how you want to, you know, this is obviously very, very compressed. What I just gave you that, that's normally the first two and a half days of my three day event. So do you, anyone want. In three minutes, anyone want to see that sequence for the book? Because the book was, is a little bit different. And are they. Can we put this on camera? So what we did was we had an offer for the book and basically we were selling it for $7. It was actually free with shipping and handling. Okay. So we give the book away for seven bucks. So we're gonna put a B here for the book. Someone comes in to buy and they get an instant upsell. Okay, so this is a one time offer, OTO. And this is for $197. Okay. I would have liked to say I got 8 or 10% conversion, but we got about a 7% conversion on that. Okay, but at a $200 product, that means that everyone coming in and getting a free book is worth 14 bucks right off the bat. Now the key here, the really important thing is that in doing this, it allows you to incentivize partners to mail for you. Because all of a sudden I can pay commissions and I got to give a shout out. Brendan Burchard is the one. Brendan in 2011 I think bought my product and he's taken it and did really well. But then he morphed it and he came up with this process. So Basically, book for $7 to upsell for $197. And then either way, whether they Take the upsell or not. Then they go into my PLF product And that's at 1997. And the conversion for there is around 1.7%. You can do the math on that. But it comes out pretty well. But what we do is basically now I've got partners, lots and lots of partners driving into the book, driving traffic into the book, saying, hey, go check out Jeff's book and get it free with shipping and handling for 7 bucks, 10 bucks they'll ship it anywhere in the world. If you're outside the U.S. i'm able to pay partners on commission on this one click upsell and I'm also paying them commission down here. Boy, that writing is nothing like a time deadline to take your writing all to hell. But in any case, that's how I sold 41,000 books in just a couple weeks time frame. That's how we put it on number one in New York Times bestseller list. So remember your marketing, Joe talked about this in his little introduction. Your marketing has to tell a story. Nothing captures people's attention like a story does. Stories win. And when you deploy that story over a 10 day time frame and you give three great value videos that define the opportunity, define the journey, define the how your prospects lives are going to transform, then when you land them on your sales video, they don't even need to watch that entire sales video. They are ready to buy.

Hello, this is Joe Polish and this is a shark, but it sort of looks like a piranha. Now the name of my company is Piranha Marketing and this video I'm shooting and I'm going to encourage Vic Conan to actually email this out or put it on their website@nightingale.com for, for all the Nightingale Conant clients and customers and prospects and anyone that would want to come to Nightingale Conant because they sell so many awesome different audio programs on personal development and business and you name it. Anyway, I'm one of their authors and we have one of their best selling programs which is Piranha Marketing. The seven success multiplying factors that dominate any market you enter. Now there's a big sticker up top because when someone enters this, they can call and listen to a free recorded message that has me describe how to get the most out of this program. Now the program's awesome. It comes with a money back guarantee. It's made a lot of people a lot of money. So anyway, the reason that I'm doing this video is because I want to teach you a marketing campaign. I want to give you an idea right now that anyone that's in business can use to replicate themselves. It's an elf marketing campaign. Because what I teach in this program is how to have an elf business which is easy, lucrative and fun, versus a half business, which is hard, annoying, lame and frustrating. Now you could have a business that's hard, annoying, lucrative and frustrating. But what's the point if you're making a lot of money but you hate it and you're a workaholic and everything's onerous and it causes lots of angst when you can create robotic systems that do the selling for you 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Now one of the things that I teach in the program is the, the difference between selling and marketing. Selling is what you do when you're on the phone or face to face with somebody. Marketing is what you do to get someone on the phone with you, properly positioned so that the people you're talking to, your prospects are pre interested, pre motivated, pre qualified and pre disposed to do business with you. Now one of the methods that I teach in this program, there's literally dozens that are simple, they cost literally nothing to test and they make lots of money, is a consumer awareness guide which could also be turned into a 24 hour free recorded message. Meaning as soon as you invest in this Nightingale Kona program, you're given a free recorded message. But you actually could use this technique in your business by having a 24 hour a day, seven day a week salesperson that delivers a compelling pitch, never complains about a headache, always shows up to work on time, never asks for a raise, and always does a fantastic job of representing in your company. You never have to worry about it and it's totally non threatening. Well, you can use that same methodology offline in print. Like one of the people that invested in this program created the Consumer's guide to Choosing a Golf Instructor. And so you know you can use it for anything if you're a web designer, if you're a chiropractor, if you're a carpet cleaner. I started learning marketing when I was a dead broke carpet cleaner living off credit cards. I had to actually create powerful marketing strategies because I needed to eat. Never thinking that I would ever develop a Nightingale Kona program or do trips to Necker island with Richard Branson and all the things that learning marketing have allowed me to do. But one of the very first things that I created, which is explained in detail in the Nightingale Kona program, is how to create a consumer awareness guide. Now this one is for Carpet cleaners. This one is a template for carpet cleaners. And I'll show you because I know this stuff so so well. It says, the Consumer's Guide to Carpet Cleaning. Read this guide and you'll discover six costly misconceptions about carpet cleaning. Seven questions. Ask a carpet cleaner before you invite them into your home. Crawling Critters and Crud. A guide to the slime, grime and livestock that's seeping, creeping and galloping through your carpet. And no, I don't have a teleprompter. We're using a little flip video. Okay, so how to avoid 4 Carpet Cleaning RIP offs. The difference between value and price. That sort of stuff. Now, if you look at those as just templates, those are all the things that people don't know that they don't know about carpet cleaning. Now you're saying to yourself, well, I'm not a carpet cleaner, so how's that going to work for me? Well, here's the deal. If you sell anything that's even remotely more exciting than carpet cleaning, you certainly can use these marketing strategies. Because I've taught thousands of people in the carpet cleaning industry how to sell a service that nobody wants to buy. Because unless you really, really enjoy going and getting your oil changed or doing some sort of owner's job like hiring a carpet cleaner, there's nothing sexy and exciting about having your carpets clean. You do it because you own the stuff. So the point is, if I had to figure out how to sell something that nobody wants to buy, that required me to really come up with some innovative marketing techniques and utilize them, which is what my entire Nightingale Conant program is all about. So whatever your business you're in, you're going to want to have a really powerful automated canned and clone can and clone. I'll say it again. You want to can who it is, you are what you do, and you.

Want to clone it.

You want to put it in a printing machine so you can print off many of them. You want to put it onto a free recorded message. You want to put a consumer awareness guide onto your website or a free report. It doesn't matter if you go direct to consumers, if you're business to business, business to business, or if you're an nonprofit. These marketing strategies work for anyone. And not only are they very powerful and effective, but it's time management marketing. I want you to really think about it. In the last week or the last two weeks of the last month, have you spent any time on the phone or face to face talking to A prospect or talking to a client, explaining things to them that are many of the same questions and concerns that everyone has, that if you had a 24 hour free recorded message doing it for you, that it would have saved you 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes. If the answer is yes, if you multiply all of those interactions that you have, all of the time that you spend communicating things to people face to face or over the phone, or you have your salespeople doing it for you, how many hours does that take? It takes a lot. And even if you're never the one doing prospecting or doing selling, I mean, if you've hired salespeople to do it for you, if you set up these automated ELF strategies, you're going to enhance every one of your salespeople's efforts. So by the time they talk to people because of the great marketing you've put together like a free recorded message or a consumer awareness guide, then the only people that they're talking to are people that are pre interested, pre motivated, pre qualified and predisposed to do business with your company. And if you install those sorts of marketing systems, which are very simple, we explain to you how to do them and we tell you exactly where to go to get it done, it will not only make you thousands of dollars, but I guarantee you, by not having these systems in place, it's costing you thousands of dollars. So the real question here in investing in this Nightingale Kona program is not how much does it cost? Okay, because it's not cheap, but it's free. What I mean by it's free is if you implement any of it, it's going to bring you back multiple of what the investment is. So the real question to ask is 12 months from now, how much will I lose by not having one system like that in place? And there's dozens of proven systems that are in there. How to do teleseminars, how to build referral programs, how to do direct mail, how to do online marketing, how to create contest models. I mean, people like Bill Phillips, the author of Body for Life, I've been his marketing consultant for over a decade. I have him utilizing these marketing, marketing strategies. I mean, there's huge billion dollar corporations and thousands of small mom and pop operations and people in between. It doesn't matter if you're online or offline, they work. So think about it. How much better will your business be a year from now if you actually get this program, listen to it and implement these simple strategies? And so that's my educational pitch for you. For the day I gave you a strategy there. That alone is not worth a ton of money. Now, if you want to learn the exact words to say, how to say it, how to distribute it, that's what the Nightingale Conant program is for. It's very expansive. And so I want to. I appreciate you taking the time. And Nightingale Conant is awesome. So I hope you utilize all the capabilities and education that are available through this organization. Talk to you later. Thank you.

Thank you.

Yes.

Okay.

Hello.

Hello. All right. If you are not a direct response marketing expert or you do not have one in your company, you are not leaving tons of money on the table. Okay? Direct response marketing is the kind of marketing that is specific, quantifiable and immediate. Okay? So it's not branding. It is ROI based. It is dollar out, dollar in. Okay? There are many different channels of direct response marketing. There's direct mail, there's tv, there's space ad, there's radio, and of course, there's online. That includes things like space ads, text ads, and dedicated emails. In every single direct response marketing campaign, there are three key components. They are your copy, your offer, and your list. The copy is the message that goes out to the prospect. The offer is what that prospect will get and how they receive it. And the list is essentially the pond in which you are fishing, right? Who you're trying to reach. Many, many people think that in direct response marketing, the copy is the most important part of your campaign. That is not true. It is the list that is the most important part of your campaign. Okay? The list is responsible for 60% of that success. Your offer, 30% and the copy, 10%. The reason is you can have awesome copy. And if it goes to the wrong people, you will have zero response. You can have mediocre copy that goes to the exact right audience and you will have a good response. I like to say you don't sell lingerie to lumberjacks. Okay? Okay, so when we talk about, and we're going to talk about online for the purpose of this conversation, but please know it applies to all direct response. Okay? So when you're talking about traffic online, what is the most desirable kind of traffic? Well, it's endorsed traffic, right? So, yes, your affiliates and your joint ventures, but what is the problem with affiliates and joint ventures, Right? A lot of big guys, they won't mail for untested offers, right? Everybody wants reciprocation, right? So what you end up doing is whoring out your list, right? With working moms only, I don't mail for reciprocation. I mail because a product or service is good for my community. Okay? So. And that's why you should be mailing. And of course, there's a lot of good old boy networks out there. Okay? So what is the solution to getting more traffic? You buy your way in. And that's what we're going to talk about today, essentially is media buying. Now, a lot of people media buy, yet they have never seen a data card. And this in front of you is a data card. And we're gonna go through that and why it is so important. Okay? Now, a data card will be in any kind of media kit that you get, even if you're doing space ads or radio or tv, okay? Essentially what it does, it talks to you about the list, who is on that list. Okay? So here's an example of a data card. You have two examples. The first one is for an email list. The second one is for a direct mail list.

Okay?

And I'm going to show you the little bit of a difference in what you should be asking. Okay? So, excuse me. So number one is the name of the list. Okay? Number two is the universe and the pricing of the list. For this example, you'll see that they've got about 388,000 Active magazine subscribers. Okay? That $150 per m over there means $150. One thousand, not $150. A million, not $150 flat. So for every thousand names you rent, you will pay $150. Below that, you'll see their expire count. Expires will be slightly cheaper because they're not active subscribers at the moment. Okay, number three is a description of that list. It will include demographics and psychographic information. Psychographic information is really important because it tells you about their behavior. So you always don't want to just be looking at demographics of a list. Number four. Oh, I'm sorry. Number four goes into the demographic. Number three is more of the, you know, what is the list about? What is this, you know, the magazine about? What kind of things do they cover? Okay, number five is the advertising specifications. So will they split? Creative. Whenever you're testing a list, you want to make sure you are splitting and you are testing. So if you were sending an email campaign out there, you would rent about approximately 40,000 names from this list. To test, you would test 20,000, maybe with separate headlines. Okay? When you test, you test one variable at a time. But this, that's what number five does, is tells you what you can do. There as far as those advertising specs, Number six is the last time this list was updated. Number seven is the gender breakout. Okay? Very important. So this list, you'll see, what does it say is 88% female. Okay. Number nine is the source. Where did this information come from? A lot of these on here say things like direct response or say direct mail, inserts, cards. So you want a list that is direct response oriented. Okay. Because that's what you're doing. You're selling to them direct. You want names who came from people direct. Okay. Number 10 is unit of sale. So why is that important? Because if you've got a $300 product and the average unit of sale on this list is 20, 28 bucks, 29 bucks, probably not good buyers for you. Okay. Number 11 is selection. Okay. So this list, you can break out. You can pull selects from there. You can do things like specific stuff states. Before, Fabianne was saying that she knows where her buyers are. Therefore, if she's renting a list, what would she do? She could select those states. Okay. The thing about a selection is you'll see on the side that every select you do will add an additional $16, $12, $10 to that, $150, a thousand. So every time you do a select, you're not at $150 thousand anymore. You now you're at 160 or 70 or 80 or as many selects as you want. When I was running Weiss research, I did a lot of selects on lists, which is how I broke into a lot of lists that you wouldn't have thought about. Okay. Number 12 is essentially the net name policy. What does that mean? That you're going to essentially pay for 85% of the list. You're going to pay for 100%. It's right there. Okay. The next card is the same exact thing, but it's direct mail. But this has one important thing that we use in the direct mail days that people don't ask their list broker now, which is the usage. When you do media buying, you are a detective. So if you see on a list, you have three good lists in front of you that you like, and all of them have one common list in common that they've used. Well, guess what? Now you're going to go after that data card. Okay, I know I'm going fast. And the idea of this presentation is to introduce you to the right way to media Buy. A lot of people, like I said, media buy, and they've never ever seen a data card before, and they're you know, doing something and doing something right are entirely two different things. Okay, so anytime you're about to go out and spend money, you need to look at a data card in order to do so. Okay, here are some resources for you. If you've never done this. Nextmark.com you can go to that website and you can print out your data cards yourself. Okay. Essentially you put in keywords. It's a really easy site. You can print out the data cards and you can start looking. The Oxbridge directory is a wonderful directory. It costs about $2,000. What I do every year is I go on ebay and buy the previous year for about 39 bucks. SRDS is probably the best resources. This is about a $700 a year subscription and then. I'm sorry, actually it's like 6,000 now and then. Changing the channel, which is 12 easy ways to make millions for your business is a book I wrote with Michael Masterson a few years ago. And it really is detailed about direct response marketing and multi channel marketing. So.

Wow.

Okay. So here is kind of one of my case studies. And when I was at Agora at the time, I had the most successful promotion in agora history in 35 years. It was one sales letter that did $17 million. 30% of that was from joint ventures and affiliates. 70% was from media buying. Okay. If I had not done any media buying and relied only on affiliates, and I would have left nearly $12 million on the table. Okay, Anyone who has any questions. Okay. One last thing of what you can do right now is survey your list. I'm a big believer in surveying your list for very different reasons. Okay. Because you need to understand birds of a feather flock together. So you're creating a community of like minded folks. So survey your folks. Ask them what websites they get their news from, what magazines they read, what papers they read. This will help you select your media. Always separate your buyers from your non buyers when you do surveys so that you can see the difference from the people who actually buy. Okay. At the end of every survey I do, I like to offer them a gift. When I was in the financial newsletter world, I would say, would you like a report on gold ETFs or options? It's great for product development ideas and you give them what they want and thank them. You can use the surveys for press releases.

You may have heard at some point somewhere something that says, if you're not spending $1,000 a day on Facebook ads.

You have not entered the modern era of marketing period.

Thanks to Brendan this has generated ridiculous amounts of revenue for our business because of this one statement here. But the question is not if you're doing it, it's if you are doing it, what and how are you advertising? Because I believe Facebook advertising to do it successfully. Now, anyone can do it, but to do it successfully, you need to operate by implementing four M's. How many M's? M number one is your message. And this is where you realize that what you say is actually less important than how you say it. M number two, your market. And this is where you realize that who they are is actually less important than who you are to them. M number three is magnet. Understanding that you can either be the one chasing your client or you can have your client chasing you. And I would argue that it's probably to be better the flame, not the moth. Do you agree? And lastly, mechanism where you realize that the greatest entrepreneurs don't do marketing. They have seen systems that do the marketing for them. And so by the end of this, you're going to realize how to generate more leads consistently and reliably using Facebook without being a douche face and how to do that on demand. Now, here's an example of a campaign that we just ran utilizing the four M's and the kind of results that you can get. Now, you can see that this was just last month and it was a 27 day campaign. In total, we generated 470,137 leads and generated just over $3.2 million in revenue in that time period. So what we're going to talk about today is the third M, the Magnet. Specifically, what you offer the marketplace in exchange for a name and an email address. And to do this, we're going to look at two things. We're going to look at sexually. Sexual encounters with strangers and Brussels sprouts. Because why not put both of those in the same sentence? Hi, my name is Nick and would you like to have sex tonight? Don't answer. There's no right answer. There's no way you can go with that. Now, as absurd and as kind of interruptive as that might seem, this is what entrepreneurs do every single day on Facebook when they're advertising their business. It goes something like this. Hey, I don't really know you yet and I don't even know if you want what I have, but take a look at it and buy my shit. And this happens over and over and over. In fact, has anyone ever experienced this before? Advertisements that are irrelevant to you. Now, here's the problem with that. It Violates the two golden rules about marketing online. Rule number one, you must give before you take. Ask, receive. And rule number two, every step of your marketing process should be valuable, even of itself, despite the fact if someone transacts with you or not. So to generate more relevant leads, consistent and reliably on demand, without being a douche face. It comes down to step number one. You give something of value to your ideal prospect and this begins the conversation with them. This begins the relationship with them. Because the more you sell on social, the more you pay for leads, the less return you get on investment and the worse your reputation will actually be. Which takes us then to point two. When I was just a little kid, my parents tried to feed me brussels sprouts under the guise that it is healthy for you. Now. They told me, nick, we know better.

We're your parents.

This is just what you need to eat to get strong, like Popeye. I'm like Popeye had spinach, said, no, no, Brussels sprouts is the way you need to go. There was one problem about that. I did not want, nor did I like brussels sprouts. So no matter how much they tried to coax me into it, I was not interest rate. And the same is true in our space. There's a lot of people giving people things that they don't want. For example, how many of you in here have ever downloaded and read an ebook? So you downloaded and you actually read it. How many people have written an ebook in here? And how many people have read their own ebook? Okay, so not as many hands as went up as those who wrote them. See, here's the thing. I've come up with this concept that I call the desirability matrix. And when you're considering what is the offer that I could go put out into my marketplace in exchange for a name and an email. Again, the magnet. What can I offer them? And we have this little matrix here. High desire on the top, low desire on the bottom, easy to consume on the right, hard to consume on the left. And I would put ebook in this category right here. It's easy to consume, yes, but it's low desire. This day and age, nobody wants to read an e book. Nobody has the time to read an e book. Do you agree? So then if we're kind of moving on to the bottom left there. Hard to consume and low desire. This would be something like a sales call. I see people trying to sell sales calls on the Internet using Facebook ads and say, hey, why don't you just come on this call with me and they're thinking, well, hard to consume because I got to get on the phone with you and I don't want it because I know you're going to sell me something. If we move up in the matrix, this is where we might find something like a webinar or a four part video series. Is there high desire? Yes. People want this in the marketplace, but is it hard to consume? Yes. Why? Because it's asking someone for 90 minutes of their time, four days out, away from their family, away from everything else, to consume this content. So then if we move to the top, right, what is the highest desire, easy to consume? I'm going to write it this way. A PDF download. You could call that a cheat sheet, a resource guide, a work list, anything. If I was Paul Colling and I wanted to put out a PDF download, it could be the top seven tools you need to start your next podcast. Something that's easy, that's valuable, that you can download right away and implement right away to get a desired result. Now we're going to call the PDF download a snap, because someone can download it and implement it in a snap. We'll call the webinar, the four part video series, the gap, the sales call, a trap, and the ebook. So here's the point. Always offer something that is a snap so that you can hopefully get them to the trap. But if they don't get the trap, then fill it with the gap and always, at all costs, avoid the what. Now you might be thinking, what's the problem with offering an ebook? I still got the lead. Here's the problem. Because if you actually give someone an ebook and they do not read it or consume it, even if you got the lead, you are actually training your prospect to say, every time I give you something, it's not important that you read it or consume it or take action on it. Does that make sense? And so it's my belief that one of the main reasons why people don't transact with us has very little to do with their trust in us. It has more to do with their trust in themselves to take the actions they need in order to get the desired result. So if we could give them something in a snap, then essentially what they're going to walk away with is some result. So then how do we do this? I say that every magnet should be sage. What's the word? Sage S stands for short. I have this little note beside my computer that reminds me, and it says this, Nick, you are already out of time. We have literally microseconds to capture someone's attention and get them engaged with us. So if that's the case, what are we going to offer them? Offer them something that can be consumed within four to seven minutes. And your first exposure with somebody, if it's a blog post, if it's an audio, if it's a video, four to seven minutes consumption time. Next applicable or actionable. You know, it's the difference between information and insight. Information today is abundant. It's a commodity. Nobody needs more information. What they need is what to do with that information in order to get a desired result. Look, I don't know who the 22nd President of the United States is, but who is the 22nd President of the United States?

Grover Cleveland was the 22nd President of the United States.

So at this day and age, information is abundant. We need to give someone something that can be actionable, that they can apply right away. G stands for goal oriented. I want you to see a spectrum here. I want you to see your ideal prospect right over here, where they are today and where they want to be right over here. Now, a lot of people try to fill that gap just like this. It's too hard, too fast. They can't understand it. So your goal in your magnet, in your snappy magnet is, how do I get someone from point A, not to point Z, but to point B? How can I get them one step closer? Because remember, if they make progress, they will now associate that progress with you. And the next logical question is, if you took me that far, then what's next? Well, let me introduce you to so and so. And lastly, it needs to be easy. There's this like, illusion in the world today that the more complicated you can make something, the smarter you come across. And the reality is, in the Internet, that is not true anymore. Easy is the way to go if you want someone to feel more confident about taking action. So if it's short and it's applicable, you. You build momentum. If it's applicable and easy, you make progress. If it's easy and goal oriented, you develop confidence. And if it's goal oriented and short, they get excitement. One last sample and then we'll close. There was a gentleman, former genius network member, who had written a book teaching HR people how to do interviews to hire the best talent. And he'd written this entire e book. And I said, brother, did you even read your ebook? And he said, no. How do you expect anyone else to? I said, if you only had 90 seconds with me, and I was an actual hiring agent at A company. What is the one chapter you could pull out of that e book and give to me to get me the greatest results to move the needle the most? And he said it would be the chapter on all the questions I would ask during an interview. I said, great, how many questions are there? He said, 100. Whoa. Not a snap too much. Can you tell me the top five questions every interviewer should ask an interviewee in order to get a great hire? He said, absolutely. And just like that, a magnet was born. When we ran this campaign, he used to get $9 leads. And from his initial launch, it was approximately $200,000 in revenue. By changing it and giving him a snappy magnet, what happened? We brought his lead cost down to about $3. So 9 to 3. And this campaign ended up doing 1.4 million for him. So what's the takeaway? How do you easily generate relevant and consistent leads on demand for without being a douche face? Number one, don't offer sex to strangers. Two, always add bacon to your Brussels sprouts. Or more specifically, give before you take and provide value by giving them something snappy. And that is sage.

So yesterday I was in the hallway and someone said, oh, Brian Kurtz, you're the direct mail guy. And so, yeah, 1.3 billion pieces of mail. I licked every stamp guaranteed. But listening to Brendan today, I was inspired because I started thinking about a more transcendent way to think about myself. And I want to see myself as a direct marketing guy who spent 32 years learning a lot of stuff, and I want to share it with all the next generation of marketers that I can and then, of course, learn a lot from them and then sponge off them and all that. My son said, you're going to do 32 years worth of your experience, dad, in 10 minutes. I think that's about eight minutes too long. My family is very supportive of my career. So my concept today, O to O to O. Offline to online to online to offline is the basic. It's not zero to zero to zero that Eunice thought I was just a zero. So there's two concepts I want to just stress today when it comes to online and offline marketing. The first, and I'm going to read this because I didn't want to get it right because I have it on a slide. The best online marketing techniques being practiced today all have their roots in traditional direct marketing practices. And I would add that there's some room for improvement. And the second thing that I want to cover today is why be Defined by a channel. My brother Michael Fishman always says, why would you want to call yourself an Internet marketer and define yourself by a channel? Then Gary Bensivenga took that one step further and said, why not be a solution in multiple channels? And we're talking about being solutions as marketers and as people who have products and services. We're not just selling more shit to more people. And that was actually a slide at a conference with an Internet marketer. His first slide was how to sell more shit to more people. And that's not the game I'm in. That's not the game I'll ever be in. So that's my mission going forward and why I wanted to be on this stage. And it's a privilege to be on this stage. So let me talk about a few direct marketing principles from the past, five of them that I think need to be talked about a little bit today so that we can at least not ignore them as we do everything on the Internet. The first is creative. And creative is not just a byproduct. It's not something you just as Dean Graziosi said yesterday, it's not flashing arrows on a squeeze page. Creative takes work. Good copy takes work. I'm going to give you three quick things that I want to mention on that. One is Joe always says, and I love this quote from Gary Halbert, every marketing problem can be solved by a great sales letter.

Right.

I think that's close to the quote. Isn't that the second thing I want to say? And I want to call out John Benson for a minute. My buddy John and I did a one day event. How many people were at our one day event two years ago at Boardroom, we had about 50 of the best copywriters in the room and Paris had to do one. And basically after that session, what I realized is that while John was teaching video sales letters, what he was really teaching was copy approaches and direct marketing and direct response techniques. And then we had dinner with Gary Bensivenga and he wanted to meet Gary Bensivenga because he had learned so much from him. And that night I bought two URLs. That night on GoDaddy, I bought online offlinedirect.com and it's all direct marketing.com because I really believe that everything that we're doing today online is direct marketing and it's the ultimate direct marketing medium. John, he is the evil genius of video sales letters. And then just one quickie. A guy in one of my mastermind groups recently said he had the Best subject line he ever had on any email. And the actual wording that he used was based on an ad that was written by Max Sackheim in the 1950s. Just saying. Okay, number two, statistical significance and AB testing. Does anybody know what that means? Okay, statistical significance means that when you're doing two tests that you actually have results that you can rely on. So therefore you can roll out to one or the other as your winner. Do you know how many people on the Internet don't do that?

A lot.

Not people in this room, of course. Nobody here. And then as far as a B testing, make sure your two list universes that you're testing are demographically similar. Why would you want to test two universes that aren't? These are just basic tenets of direct mail direct marketing, that if more people followed on the Internet, I know they're already crushing it already, but they could crush it even more. Number three, your list. I always say everything is not a revenue event, but everything is a relationship event. And there are so many people here that have spoken on this already. I'm not going to dwell on it. But when you're dealing, and I think because email is so cheap and because you think you compound your list into submission on a regular basis, why not just mail them every day? But what Ben talked about today, he mails them every day, but he's not selling them every day. And we couldn't do that in direct mail. When I used to walk up the hill and barefoot in the snow 12 miles to school, I paid a shitload of postage. A shitload of postage. You ever pay postage? Anybody ever pay postage? We once paid $25 million in one year in postage. I'm not bragging, it sucks. Postal service got a lot of my money. But what I'm saying is that we had to be so conscious of everything that we did in direct mail. Number four, give the customer more than they ever would have expected. I'm not going to go into that even more because I think Marie covered that beautifully. But don't abuse your customers. You want to think about things like lifetime value, watch what the best people online in the launch world are doing because they're delivering a lot of content before they start selling. You look at the 30 day calendars. There are people in 25k that have 30 day editorial calendars. And on two of those days they're selling something. They're just delivering content. Delivering content. And then number five, list segmentation and database. I'll just mention I was at Strategic Coach and I learned A lot by being there that day, talking to your guys about that a 9 million name database could be the same as a 900 name database. And you don't want to talk to all your customers the same way. Which ties back into creative and list. So that's my quick doctor principles. I had to do that really quick. That was 32 years worth of knowledge. That's it. Now on the multi channel approach, the second aspect I mentioned, I have a case history which I can't go into in detail. But I will tell you that using more than one medium can make all boats rise. So I have a case history. In fact, if you go.

I have.

A squeeze page Dean. Hallelujah. Right? So go to Briankurtz me and there's an interview there that Perry Marshall did with me. And I have three case histories and one of them is all about how we did an infomercial for the treasury of Health Secrets. Anybody ever see that with Hugh Downes and Arthur Johnson? I mean we only did. I think we only did about 225 million on TV on that. I'm no Dean Graziosi and I'm no Kevin Harrington, but we were pretty good in the infomercial business. But what I really wanted to stress there is that we went from infomercial back to direct mail and then online and all boats rose. And that entire campaign, which I outline in detail and feel free to download the interview that was probably north of $300 million when we put everything together. But it was not just about taking one product and on one medium. The final thing I think I want to just mention is this concept of nothing. Now I'm going to bring it back around. So someone who thought I was the direct mail guy, I am the direct mail guy. So nothing scales like direct mail. And nothing still scales like direct mail. The problem with direct mail today is that you can't get the list universes that we used to get. But the response rates are still there. And imagine being in a world being in a world of 4% and 5% response rates. How do you like that? And a world where you don't have to get the credit card up front because you can do credit screening up front. And a world where you can do regression modeling to a list universe based on hundreds of characteristics of your customers. Not too personal, but personal enough in terms of their transaction data to really understand how to mail them and what segments to mail. All of those things are coming and a lot of the best Internet marketers are already doing that. And a lot of Them aren't. And again, I feel like it's my duty to bring that kind of intelligence to the online marketing community. I wanted to say a couple of quick things. I still have a minute and 20 seconds. Well, I did that really fast. So Joe and I, we were talking last night a little bit about branding and Joe did this article which I thought was pretty good. Branding is bullshit. And then we did a little riff I think at one of the 25k meetings. And the thing that I will tell you though, even in direct response, and this is a quote again from Michael where he says, just know how known or unknown your brand is. So that, yeah, I wish I had a Nike swoosh to sell. Bottom line, personal. I don't. But what I do have is a list that really understands my brand. They know because I've been farming that list for a long time. We have a 9 million name offline database and whenever I position my brand to that list, it makes all the difference in the world. So I wouldn't abandon branding as something you just. I wouldn't spend millions and millions of dollars just to create a brand.

New things.

I'm sure there's lots of examples of that. We don't know about the same product in.

I have a couple of version. You do?

I knew it.

Tell me.

Morton salt is literally the exact same.

Product as generic salt.

If you send it to a lab.

They can't tell the difference. But Morton's able to charge 187% more.

I love it. I did an experiment to try to understand what is a commodity. When somebody buys a commodity product, are they paying more when two things that are exactly the same and they're willing.

To pay more for one, Are they.

Paying for the brand?

Are they paying for their perception of the product.

So to test this, I gave people.

Two pairs of sunglasses that were exactly the same. I said, okay, one pair had no logo and the other pair had a Chanel logo.

And I said, how much would you be willing to pay for these two glasses?

And they were willing to pay 400% more for the pair with Chanel logo.

Which means they were buying sunglasses, but.

They were paying for their perception of the product or more importantly, how other people would perceive them. So the way this relates to entrepreneurs.

To small business owners, to leaders, is it's about the perception that you're creating on your differentiation.

And there's no one right way to differentiate in the speaking world.

When I started, I couldn't figure out.

What'S the correlation between a speaking fee.

And how much that speaker is willing.

To charge, Is it reputation? Is it reviews, is it connections, status?

And so I looked at top speakers, and on speaking sites, there's a dropdown.

Menu just like Amazon. Which category are you looking for in speaking?

The category is economics, politics, comedy.

And what I found was that speakers who used the word innovation to describe their topic made on average $5,000 more per keynote than speakers who used the category creativity.

Oh, wow.

Innovation and creativity, you could take the.

Same speech and simply change the word, but innovation had a much higher perception.

Because innovation is a means to an end, whereas creativity is perceived as a.

Process that doesn't necessarily have a benefit.

Boy, that's really. That is interesting.

And so it's an example of different. How to make your product.

By a very subtle nuance, the product becomes different, which thereby makes it be perceived as better through marketing.

I love it. I love it. I want to see what kind of questions maybe people have. Hey, Dean, can I get in this conversation real briefly or. Hi, Sally. It's so fun. Is that really you or are we.

Being catfished right there?

So, first of all, Sally, I was going to introduce you on this, and I got delayed flying. And I'm such a huge fan of everything you do. You know, it's probably.

What was it, Sally?

Three or four years ago at a Genius Network annual event, you were on the stage with a panel of female spectacular entrepreneurs. You, J.J. virgin, and Kelly.

Robin Roberts. Lisa Sosavich.

Robin.

That's right.

But I heard you say, and your book title's a little different than I remember, but you said, it's better to.

Be different than it is to be better. And that was like the highlight for.

Me for that annual event. I wrote it down. I've quoted you so many times since that time, but here's one that kind of a case study, study, Sally, I'd love for you to comment about. So back in the 20th century, I worked. That's kind of funny to put it that way. Yeah, I worked for Hair Club for Men. I was actually. I became vice president of Hair Club for Men. And when I joined them, they were doing about 8 billion a year. Then we took it to $120 million a year. So we did well. But Cy Sperling, 1976, he says, I want to get into the. The hairpiece business. Hairpiece business. And it was a commodity.

Dean's hairpieces, Schwa's wigs, Russ's toupees, it.

Was all the same. And Cy Sperling comes along and he says, he was selling the exact same thing, but he called his company Hair Club for Men. So that was the first thing. That was the first thing, Hair Club for Men. And Cy didn't call it Schwa's Wigs or Dean's Toupees or Russ's Hairpieces, called it the Strand by strand method. It was the same thing, but he called it. He named it. He. A unique pack. Let's see, what does Dan Sullivan say? Unique naming process. And then Schwa's Wigs and Dean's Toupees and Russ's Hairpieces, they sell for $500 size strand by strand system. He sold for between 2,500 and $4,000.

So.

And people flocked to it. Oh, my goodness. They would go from states away, they would come to get the Strand by strand method. Now, by the time I joined the company, they were different and better. They used a lot of that money and research and development and made something that was better than a hairpiece. But when I think of what you're talking about and I think of this case study, he entered a commodity, but he named his company really well. I think you can comment. He called it something different, gave it a unique trademark name and he priced it on a high level and it became an incredibly successful company.

That's a great example. If you think of Certs with Ritzen.

There's no such thing as Ritzen.

The Pons Institute. There's no Pons Institute. There's women in lab coats.

We did.

Wait a second. Wait a second.

Blew my mind.

I thought there was a Pons Institute.

Yeah, let's Google the address and go visit. And it's going to be on Madison Avenue.

Yeah, yeah. Within. Within.

Within my company, how to Fascinate. We had a lot of people who wanted to be affiliates, to be able to.

To train and to coach and.

And when we thought of them as affiliates, it was sort of like they were customers. And so we created the Fascinate Certified.

Advisor program with certification.

And now because we made it a.

Thing with a program and with steps.

Now.

We'Ve certified over 200 people.

It's been required in Singapore.

The government pays for it.

There are dozens of them in Germany and in countries all over the world.

And what that comes back to is.

That when you take something, it's an.

Abstract process, or you take something that.

Doesn'T have a clear benefit and with.

Subtle changes, you can make it ownable.

You can make it not only trademarkable, but we just got our International Coaching Federation approval, which is incredibly exciting for us because now it means that. Yeah, so now our trainers and coaches are coming from that pool. So, yeah, I encourage all of us to be thinking about what is something that you're already doing, right. That you're not getting credit for because you either haven't, you haven't named it, but you haven't done what Tim said. Strand by strand is a way of.

Taking a look at something that's happening as part of a process that's a.

Commoditized process, but, but looking at it.

Through, through the eyes of the consumer.

And that consumer wants a strand by strand process, they just, they don't know. They wouldn't know how they're. They wouldn't be able to understand the benefit to them through, through what other people were doing in that category. So that's a great example, Tim.

That's awesome.

Thank you.

I always say that's. That, that was. If you remember how he sold. That was a different strategy too, that I remember seeing because that's right around the time I met you. Tim was 1997.

Ish.

98 maybe.

Yeah.

And at the time he was running.

Infomercials and saying how he got the.

Idea from the cell phone industry where.

They give people the cell phone when.

You buy the, the plan, the, the, the ongoing plan. And it was the same for them, they would give you the hair which has the value and you sign up for.

Because every month you have to go and get it adjusted or tightened. Is that what they would call it, say adjusted?

Adjusted, not tightened, but they. Your hair. And as your hair grows, it gets.

It loosens and you've got to batting.

Down the hatches, I guess.

Yeah, that's the terminology consumers are thinking of, I'm sure.

Immediately in my mind, I immediately conceived of it. I'm going to share it here.

World premiere. I've carried this around. I've told a select group of people.

Individually in private conversations about my movie.

Idea that that inspired.

And I'm going to reveal it here in case anybody has the ability to.

Help us get this movie made.

So in my mind, as he's explaining.

This, I thought that's brilliant because once.

People get the hair, they're going to.

Want to keep the hair.

So I bet that their hair payment.

They make the payment, they continue on with the process.

I bet the lifetime value of a client is very high.

And then I thought, but what if they don't pay? What happens then?

Do they come and pull the plugs?

Do they come and like, repossess the Hair.

How does that happen?

And that immediately led me to this culture and underworld of these hair repossessors.

That work out of back of the barber shop kind of thing, like straight.

Out of Quentin Tarantino movie like Repo and that. I thought about doing a part documentary, documentary of this world of these people, but then it evolved into tying it into sort of a Weekend at Bernie's kind of this political candidate who's running for office, but he didn't make his.

Hair payments and they're going to pull.

The plugs on him while he's on the.

Literally pull the plugs, tracking him down.

And they're going to pull the plugs like the hair repo men. So there's my 30 second elevator pitch for the movie. If anybody would like to collaborate and.

Make that happen, let's.

Awesome.

Thank you, Richard. Thank you, thank you. Thank you, Joe. Sometimes I jokingly refer to myself as 003, which means I've been active at the national level in conservative politics longer than every living country conservative except two others. And 001, by the way, is Phyllis Schlafly, who is 90 years old today. So I want to keep being number three for a long time. As Joe said, I've got 80 employees. At age 80, which was last year, I literally spend 12 to 14 hours, five and a half days a week, week, involved in marketing and my public policy activities. Love every minute of it. Thanks to see Babs. Where's Dan? Because of Babs and Dan, I enjoy almost every minute of what I do. And because they taught me early on the concept of unique ability, I focus on that. And I feel I've been retired for the last 12 or 14 years.

Years.

In 1961, I get the opportunity to go to New York City to become executive director of a political youth organization founded on Bill Buckley's family estate a few months earlier. I'm a green kid from Texas. I know nothing about marketing. I tried to duplicate what Buckley was doing, read everything that I could about, you know, my beliefs and freedom and liberty and all that. After a year, I said, I'm not going anywhere with Buckley is so far ahead of me, I can never catch up. So I'm going to become the best marketer I could. In those days, conservatives didn't have enough. But we had people like Buckley. We had writers, authors, we had candidates and elected officials, but we didn't have anybody that could market those beliefs and ideas and organizations and candidates. So I made a major, major study for maybe 10, 12 years just focusing in on marketing. And today at my age, I still spend two and a half to three hours every day studying marketing, six days a week. And if you are interested in really taking your skills much, much higher, you spend two, three, four hours a day studying marketing. And within two or three or four years you will be at the very, very top level of marketing. Because the vast majority of people, quite frankly, are amateur advertisers in this area. There are hundreds of marketing books, but I focused on about 20 that are written by the Giants. Joe mentioned David Ogilvy, certainly that Al Rees, Jack Trout, Seth Godin, Claude Hopkins. David Ogilvy, premier advertising person of the 20th century, said no one should be allowed to have anything to do with advertising until they had read Claude Hopkins seven times. I don't know very many people in market who have read Claude Hopkins seven times. In fact, most of the people I know have never heard of Claude Hopkins, much less his book Scientific Advertising. So because of all of these books that I read this tens of thousands of hours of study, I've distilled it into a number of concepts and I'll start with what Joe said, the what I call Vigory's Four Horsemen of Marketing. And I am just a nut about this. It permeates everything in our organization. And you've got to get these four things right. Get them right and life is downhill with the wind to your back. Get them wrong and you're going to be going uphill with the wind in your face and you're not likely to succeed. And I'll explain each one, but quickly. They are position differentiation. The benefit and brand position is nothing more than a hold hole in the marketplace. And that's what you do kind of privately. What's my hold in the marketplace? Differentiation is what you do publicly to differentiate self from the competition, et cetera. Out there, benefit is obvious. What benefit do they get if I give you $25000, etc. Brand is a combination of those other three. It's what makes you singular, what makes you unique. In Seth Godin's words, it's what makes you a purple cow. Help you understand it a little better. Maybe the Fox television, let's say 20 years ago, Rupert Murdoch, Roger Ailes, they want to start a new television network. They don't say, well, CBS does this, we'll do this, ABC does that, you, they don't care what abc, NBC, cbs, CNN did, okay, they're going to occupy a hole in the marketplace. There's a large community of right of center people who are dissatisfied with what's on television. So they rocket to instant success almost because they occupied a hole in the marketplace. Then they differentiated themselves by having people like Bill O'Reilly, Meghan Kelly, Hannity, Fox and Friends for a while, Glenn Beck and others, okay, benefit is obvious. Okay, you get news and information on there, you don't get anywhere else. And the brand again is what makes you singular, which sets you apart from everybody else. And they have a brand, of course, that's separate from all the other TV networks out there. Then life becomes pretty simple. Once you've identified your position, your differential, your benefit and your brand. Once you've done that, oh, let me give you another example. 2008, there's five people running for president on Democratic ticket, Obama and Hillary. They have these four things. They've got their brand, their position, etc. The other three, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, Bill Richardson, they didn't. That's why when you had primaries election, they'd get a half percent, 1%. They thought a differentiation between these other candidates was I'm smarter than the rest of them. Public doesn't accept that. They think all of you are smarter. You wouldn't be running for president. Okay, so there was no position, no differentiation, no benefit, no brand for these other three. So they disappeared. Okay, then once you have identified your four horsemen of marketing, then you have to have a right plan. And I'm just a nut about a written plan. And you know the old adage, if you don't know where you're going, any train will get you there. And it's very simple. I've got a very simple quick concept how to do this. Actually, it's not mine. 20, 25 of us used to get off together in late 70s 1980s Conservative leaders plot plan. We'd come up with a problem. How do we defeat this legislation? Pass this legislation and a young congressman from Georgia, Newt Gingrich, go to the blackboard. We didn't have white boards in those days. And he'd write four words on there, Vision, goal, strategy and tactics. And once we'd filled out, what's our vision? What's our goal? What's our strategy? What's our tactics? Okay, we saw a way forward. And the number one benefit of a plan is not working. The plan, that's important, but that's secondary. The number one benefit is clarity. You understand things. Maybe you thought you wanted to go over here. No, I see I need to go over here. And more of this and less of that. It brings, it crystallizes your thoughts and so you've got to have a written plan once you have identified your hole in the marketplace, et cetera. Third concept, I've developed nine critical elements to successful marketing through postal mail. And this applies primarily for people doing fundraising like I've done for these many years. But it also should apply for anybody here doing postal mail. And there's. You don't have to get all nine of these, right, but if you get all nine of these, you are guaranteed success. Just absolutely guarantee it. And I refer to it, I just developed this last week, this concept of been using them for 50 plus years. But I've got to work on this name. It's tip. C, middle initial bulls, B, U, L, S, S. Okay? So bear with me. Tip T is for technique. You've got to have a technique in successful postal mail. That can be a sweepstake, can be a survey, a free premium. I is for interactive. P is for program, project. What are you going to do with my 20, my $100, et cetera. C, credibility. I've heard that from any number of people today, talking about, you know, I'm having trouble being credible, being believable. That is huge. You've got to deal with that. B is benefit. C is urgent. L is the most important part of all of these things here. It applies to everybody. And L is for list. Okay? You can, J. Abraham can write the world's great direct mail package, but if you send it to people in nursing home, it's not going anywhere. Okay? So you list your audience. If you're on radio, television, Internet, your audience is huge. That's everything. The S. First S is story. The second S is scarcity. We all know about limited numbers. First 100 to reply, et cetera. You build quickly, you build a brand. Not with advertising. Save your money. You build it with buzz. Once you've got a brand, then you can protect it with advertising. The list is huge. I started my list, my company, with 12,500 names. And from that, a year later, I had 100,000. A million. Now we have 13 million names and addresses of people who contribute to political campaigns. That's huge. Number one secret of the Internet is interactive. It must be interactive. Five technologies out there, Gutenberg's printing press, radio, television, Internet. You've got to realize each one of those has unique properties. What's unique about the Internet not found in other technologies, is interactive. The number one reason you have your share of market is your relationship with your customers. Customer. We heard about Dan Sullivan's new best friend, Amazon best buddies. Dan, you know, et cetera and so your relationship with your customer is hugely important. And lastly, read, read, read. Study, study, study. You do that for a few years and read Focus on the Giants. You know, anything that Al Rees, Jack Trout, Seth Godin, David Ogilvie, Claude Hopkins, Focus on those Giants. And you don't read them. You memorize them, underline them. Go back every few months and look, in 15 minutes you can go through the whole book if you underline it.

So saying that you do some really effective marketing in Wild things seafood, but you also do some unique things. You go in and you actually train your vendor. You do all kinds of stuff. And I don't want to, I mean, you can name names if you want, but I don't want to speak. But I'd like you to kind of walk people through what you do and how you do it. What have you done that has been a game changer that has made you money, that has created bonding and relationship and engagement with your clients? And what are some mistakes that you've done?

I'd love to cover both of those.

In our conversation today. Just, you know, let's talk about some best practices, some best strategies, and let's talk about some lessons.

Well, first and foremost, the money making thing. There's things that have made us money in the past. To me, completely unsatisfactory to my level of expectation as far as what I've learned, what I've implemented, what I've done. I, first and foremost, I don't know if I just grew up with this, but I sincerely have, and you know, this too, a genuine, authentic love for people and the energy, like a positive energy thing. And I love to make people feel that they can achieve new things. I like to be out of the box. I'm an out of the box thinker, but I like to be that intimacy thing goes back. I think that one of the first kind of engagements that we had was I was sending you over some seafood so I could introduce my company. And instead of just sending you over seafood and go, hey, check this stuff out. You know, Jeff Moore, whatever. I went into a conference room and I, I knew what all of your, your team, what their favorite type of seafood was. And I went in, put a flip cam up on a deal and started talking to that camera. It's about 11 minute video. Talked about the seafood, where it came from, made fun of you, which is always a lot of fun to do and, but just gave everything. And I remember the response that you have was like, you could do this as, you know, like a Consumer awareness guide.

And it's like, right, I do this.

All the time anyway. And so that really kind of hit for me. And when we did this gourmet giveaway, which is a completely untargeted and not, you know, the way I want it to go as far as wild things. But everybody that ordered in wild things, when we built this list of 2,000 people over the last few months of people that have ordered our seafood, everybody got a video from me. And at first it was me like, hey, Rakim, man, thanks. You know, I saw that you ordered this. I absolutely love what you ordered. You ordered the water. Wild king salmon. I want you to know that this is caught hook and line off the boats of southeast Alaska. And, you know, and I would explain it, and I'd explain what's going on and how we believe that the best way for us to. To share our experience is to give it away for free. And that's exactly what we're doing. I mean, there was a thing, but I used their name, and it was like, whoa. But then that became. And as I'm sharing it and talking to Dean about it, he's like, when. When does this become a thing? When you get 2,000 orders in a day. And I'm like, so then I started to do. Not with the name, but make it still very personable and look in the camera and things. And that was convertible, but not nearly as exciting as when you use somebody's name in it. And so I learned that, you know, to be able to do that. And then everybody's. I'm starting to get people in these messages in the Breakthrough Mastermind deal, saying, you know, have just record a bunch of names and stick it in there. That's just so not me. You know, it's the connection. It's the energy. It's the thing on Thanksgiving Day, when I look at my text and it's you and Renee hiking, and you're saying, I don't even know what you eat on Thanksgiving. You know, okay, is it seafood? Is it what? You know, what is it? That meant the world to me. And if I know that that means the world to me, I'm sure that special to everybody. And I know that, you know, as far as a network, as far as you're not building a network of people because you have this thing in your mind going, network. Network is good. Network good. No, you love people. You like connecting people. You like helping people. And to me, I think that that is the ultimate. To become somebody's trusted advisor, to become their Friend and trusted advisor to me is the ultimate position that I can have. Whether it's with my business, whether it's my family, you know, my friends, anything is something that really gets me going. I started my mastermind group Thursday night boardroom because I had all this video and I just wanted to share it. And then it just all of a sudden is built into this group that's got 90 members in it, you know, and they all come every other Thursday. And they don't. 90 don't come, thank God. But, you know, it's that love of people, that energy that we get from people. But seeing the stuff that you've done, seeing the power of the mastermind, I'm.

Just gonna fumble around with this pen here while you talk that you.

The power of the mastermind that you taught me, and that was the thing that we did last year was I worked with a major broadline distributor, and I'm a tiny, tiny bit of this broad line distributor. I'm $25 million. They are a $42 billion corporation. So I mean, they're doing two parts, $1.2 billion worth of seafood. I can't even, you know, they can't get the janitor to open the back door for me. But as I started to look at the power of the mastermind and bringing a group together that has, you know, similar thoughts and similar passions, I put a mastermind group together of six suppliers we call the gang of six. And we put this group together, we met at this distributor's home office with all their executives going, what are these guys doing? And all of a sudden I was able to put this mastermind group together of suppliers and some of them competitive suppliers where I had to kind of keep the glue. I was the glue that kept it together. And it was a two day mastermind. And now I'm running a mastermind group of suppliers that act as one. And it's a $650 million group, not just a 25 million dollar group. And so I learned that at Platinum. I think I learned that bringing like minds together is just as powerful as things can be. But just the engagement part, really being sensitive. I think Wyatt Woodsmall was the guy that said, when you can articulate the needs, desires, challenges, fears and aspirations of the other person, not better than they can to themselves, but better than. Not better than they can to you, but better they can to themselves, you have passed the tipping point of becoming that person's trusted advisor for life. And then all you, you have to do is continue to add value to the relationship and they will eagerly receive it for life. And I was like, you know, that's my motto. You know, I have another one that's learn to teach. Teach to know, know and share and share with passion. And that one's like a bumper sticker over my door. But it's every breath I take. You know, it's stuff just. And I think that you're probably. I would. I know you're this person. You're learning something not for the consumption of Joe Polish, but you're literally.

You can't.

As a guy with add, you can't learn stuff for the consumption of Joe Polish. You are literally listening to this saying, I'm going to share this with Peter. I'm going to share this with, with Dean. I'm going to share this with Jeff. I'm going to share this with somebody. You're learning it and you're obligated to learn it on behalf of somebody else. And I think that that, to me has always been a big driver for me. Again, making money on this stuff. I think that you can get so big and grandiose. I was telling these stories to Jay Abraham and he's like, man, these are all great ideas, but can you assign a dollar figure to it? Well, no, no, no, no. And he stopped me. He goes, this is gonna sound really weird coming from me. And I said, what? He goes, if you can't assign a dollar figure to your activities and these, these really cool plans and this way to bring people together, he goes, you have a business plan based in arrogance because this is now about you and it's not about what you're driving. And so at that very lunch, I learned that all business, since the beginning of business, ever has one overriding purpose. Take away all the fancy stuff and all that kind of stuff. Every business has one overriding purpose, and that is to drive new, increased and or more profitable consumption of our product or service. And if that is irrefutable and we understand that that is it, then at the core, we all share a basic common language. And so I had a meeting today down the street here with a big time VP at this place. We talked about that, and then we were able to talk about the three challenges. And then I was able to even pull out the R question and use that. And this meeting, I left and my VP was with me that I took to the airport before I came back here. He goes, man, he goes, I'm your biggest fan. And he goes, that was the best I've ever seen. And I'm like, literally, as a lifelong learner, I'm able in my mind to go. That was. I love my marketing episode 111. That was the 10x talk deal from this one.

This was this.

And I'm able to catalog this stuff, but I learned it to share it.

That's great.

And that's been. Probably the best thing is to learn it to share it.

Yeah.

You know, and I mean, part of it, too, is, I think, which is hard for some people, is you always focus on the mindset of the person that you're selling and what the hell is it that they want. I mean, you're not, you know, I don't hear you constantly talking about, you know, your seafood and where it comes from or, I mean, you know, all that stuff. Those are features. But, I mean, you're. You're always thinking about what's in it for them. And as much as a skilled marketer kind of gets that and understands that a lot of people, they. They got things to sell in their constantly thinking about why they need to sell it for themselves, not, you know, what value, you know, can people give them, not what value can they give other people.

Well, yeah, and I think that from. From that point. And again, this is something that I learned from you. I learned it from Eben. I learned it from Core Influence, from Frank. On the back of my card, I was talking. There's five questions. And these questions, everybody's like, oh, they're seafood questions. This is a different card. These are seafood questions. And I said, no, there are five questions that when we ask these questions from every single customer we meet is we find out that 75% of the time, the customer is not using the best available option in their restaurant, no matter how accomplished the chef is. And over the last six years, we've saved the restaurant operator three and a half million dollars in annual food costs just by asking these questions. These questions have nothing to do with seafood and everything to do with the customer. It's funny, there's a story back in 2011, I'm at experts Academy, and I'm talking to David Bach, who I'm a big fan of, and the guy that encouraged you to buy this building. You know, all that stuff.

He tries to take credit for that.

He does.

We did it in the genius interview, too. Yeah, but. And, oh, God, you know what? I just remembered how I connected with you, and I'll. I just remembered it now. Fantastic.

We had a conversation prior to this recording saying, how the hell did you come into my world?

Yeah, it was. It's still. But it's a good story, though. And it's about walking your talk, too, by the way. It's fabulous. So I. I give my card to.

David.

David, Jesus. Give me a charge of David Bock. You know, it's hard to remember his name. He's only got 12 New York Times bestsellers. And I hand him my card, and he goes, what are these questions on the back? And I go, those are the questions I ask every single customer when I meet him. And he goes, this is genius. Well, you know, I don't see. Like, genius to me is like the great kazoo on the Flintstones with the big head and all that kind of stuff. I'm like, dude, I found genius.

Just so I don't forget the questions, you know?

And he goes, I have seven questions I ask every prospective client. He goes, why aren't those on the back of my card? I go, I don't know. He goes, is it okay if I put my questions on the back of my card?

And I'm like, yes, for a license. Yeah.

It's like, it's not prior art, buddy. He's just like. And we had a great conversation and we talked about the stickiness of coaching, and you were just talking about. And he goes, what would you suggest? He goes, I'm going to. Through a change in my coaching. And I said, you know, you hire somebody and you've got this program that works, works for people that do it. And he goes, right. I go, so, you know, it works. He goes, right. I go, where are the people when you give them that program? And he goes, what do you mean? I go, where are they mentally? I go, you could explain this, this great program and what it's going to do for them, you know, P90X what it's going to do for you. Right. Losing weight. It's not about losing weight. It's not about any of this stuff. It's about the things you have to do. And I go, david, when you hand them this program and this coaching program and stuff, they might not be ready for it. And so they might be thinking you're building this big, you know, entertainment center cool thing that's gonna have my TVs and whatever in there and all this kind of stuff, but all of a sudden you show up and you give them a box from Ikea that they have to build themselves. They're not the there yet. It's gonna stay there. And so it's meeting the customer where they are.

Yeah. No matter what you've got very good point.

Boom.

Get them there and say, oh hey look, see that brown thing? Don't step on it, it's gonna make your shoe smell. And then you keep going. And so it's like meeting customers where they are is without a doubt the greatest marketing strategy. But again, you can't fake that. You can't walk in there and you, you can't. I'm here to meet you, I care about you. It's like say that.

Right, right, right. Well, and the beauty of technology, I think one of the advantages, there's many disadvantages of over communication. You know, I think most people don't admit just how much of a complexity keeping up with email and all of the different eye candy that's available, you know, from a million different sources. There's so much interesting stuff out there. The one thing is like, it's harder these days to be a fraud. It's harder to deliver crappy service and not get found out quickly because of reviews, because of how people talk. So I think keeping things in check. And I was just in Costa Rica, I've got quite a few mosquito bites.

On me right now.

And, and it was interesting because we would go out to a couple times we went out to restaurants, although we had a full staff of people waiting on us hand and foot. And they were amazing people and the food they were making was awesome. Anyway, we went out in this little.

Town.

And most people are on island time. I mean they're just taking forever to greet you, taking forever to bring you menus, take you forever to, you know, everything. Like they're very slow.

This is Joe on free days going tick tock.

No, but I'm saying like it would be like free weeks if you waited. It like took a long time. And I made this comment to Renee, I said, you know, I go and how many. There were like four different places that like supposedly had credit card machines but they were broken. I'm like, you all have smartphones, get square. I mean how hard is that? Right? And the thing I was like going, you know, so there are places where it doesn't matter. You can still, you know, have to be like fabulous. But the analogy I came out of it is like if there was anyone and I'm sure they're there, but we didn't experience any of this where they literally just served people quickly. Like they would greet them, they had their act together, they had like anywhere near like just a four season service attitude. How they would just dominate.

I think, you know, maybe not they'd Be called a foreigner. You're not here. Get out.

Yeah, but, but, you know, it was also. But the point I made is like, you know, in business, you don't have to be like the best in the world. You simply sometimes just have to show up. You just have to be a little bit better than your competitors. And what I'm always surprised by is that a lot of people in business, they act as if it's so damn difficult to deliver a good service. It really isn't. I mean, most people suck. I mean, you know, it's so funny.

You talk about being just a little bit better than the next guy. I have a friend that's in our mastermind group and he is a hugely successful attorney. I mean, seven figure guy. He's never worked more than 25 hours a week. So we got names for him and they're not, they're not happy names.

Right.

But his whole thing ever since he was in college was, I'm just gonna be 10% better than the average guy.

And it's like, right.

And in that he became the best in the world, what he does. But it was just that. And you're right. It's just, it's, it's.

This is.

You want to be served the way you want to be served. I want to be communicated in a way that it's compelling, as Dean will use. And I think that they're all prepositions, but it's at, to, or with. And it's like, are you talking at them? To them or with them? And at them gets clicked. Deleted. Two is like, if this is important. Yeah, I'll probably read it with. It's like, oh, man, I got an email from Joe. Cool, man. What's going on? Okay, cool. You know, or, or hey, this didn't come from Joe, but it came from Rochelle. But you know what? I like what he's doing here. Yeah. And so it's at, to or with. And it's like reviewing your copy and saying, is this at to or with? Now the thing that drives me crazy is when people send an email to somebody and say everyone, and they use this big third person crowd thing. Those emails, you might send a million emails out, but those are all wanted time conversations. Don't treat them like you're standing on a stage.

Yeah, exactly.

At, to or with. Where is this communication?

Okay.

I hope you found that video awesome and useful. So if you want to get a free copy of my book, I want you to click here. And if you want to watch some more videos that will be useful and awesome. Click here. Go ahead.

You're over here.

Do it now.

Come on.

Thank you.

Watch them.