The “Make It Fun” I Love Marketing Live with Joe Polish and Dean Jackson

I'm Dean Jackson. He's Joe Polish, and this is the I Love Marketing Podcast.

Welcome to I Love Marketing.

Dean and Joe have been dispensing marketing so long that I wasn't even able to remember their 10-year anniversary because it just snuck up on us so recently. So we'll probably do something for 20. One of the things that Joe did that I thought was really interesting, it's a thing we're studying deeply, is in this world of AI and in this world of we don't really know where the content's coming from. You know, I don't know if you know this, but there are thousands of AI podcasts being published every day on Apple right now and they're terrible. But unfortunately, the noise prevents us from figuring out what's good. So one of the things Joe suggested Let's try this experiment and let's go deep into recording these things live. And as a guy who grew up, I went to school, UC Santa Barbara. I saw Johnny Carson, Kids Ask Your Parents, way before that was cool. And I'll tell you, what you see live is not what you see presented. And so by giving everyone the opportunity to come live, you get to see an entirely different show. You'll get to see all the stuff behind the scenes. But we've got a very specific question today. Dean and Joe have built their careers on easy, lucrative, and fun. So today we're going to talk about fun. What marketing question answered by these 2 today would bring the most fun to your business? Not necessarily the most money. Not as— although that helps too. Not necessarily the most efficiency. That helps too. But what would bring the most fun to your business? And if you give us a question of something that would bring the most fun to your business, we'll go that and we'll take these questions one off and go from there. Let's start with fun. The marketing question answered by these 2. What marketing question answered by these 2 would make the most fun for your business? Anna David wants to know how to make sales calls fun.

Our friend Dan Sullivan has this great line, which this isn't really a marketing thing. It's more the question of who do you want to be a hero to? So, if you're making sales calls and you're doing it to people that you really care about and you want to genuinely help them, not someone you're just trying to make money, It's in the same way you put more time, attention, money, effort, and energy towards things that you actually genuinely care about. So, I think that's one way to do it. I mean, the other is just put a big picture of Dean Jackson smiling next to wherever these sales calls are happening from. It could be if you're doing it on your phone, it could be some sort of like a little picture there or something. But that may cheer you up. If you want to be miserable, you put a picture of me next to the thing and just stare and just associate the person that you dislike the most with me, and then that will make it a more difficult sort of thing. But that's actually a joke. But that could work. You never know. So, Dean, like, the other thing too is things become more fun when you actually have a methodology that you have tested and you know— For the most part, it works and that you're keeping your focus on that. And the one way to 100% make sure that sales calls are not fun is sell something you don't believe in. Because if you're selling something that you don't believe in or doesn't work, I think all of us in our careers, like I remember selling vacuum cleaners door-to-door early on and newspaper subscriptions where I would get rejected. I mean, this is like door-to-door selling, not just—

Yeah.

calling someone on the phone and having to sell something that you don't really like, which a lot of people in sales positions hate, but they're doing it solely for money. You got to either believe in it or find the value and the virtue in what it is you're selling and the benefit and the pain it removes from the person that you're offering it to. If not, it's going to be grunt work. It's going to be arduous. So what are your thoughts, Dean?

Well, so many things. So first of all, I remember when you and I first talked about our door-to-door newspaper subscription sale experience, that your approach was, you know, just cuteness. And I'm trying to win a trip to Disney World. Right. You know, we Joked, and I did that same thing. We're selling coupon books door-to-door, and I figured out that in the coupon book was an actual coupon for a free Whopper, like no purchase necessary. It was a free Whopper included, right? So the books were there, and I would just, I would present the opportunity for people to buy the book, and then I would show them, you know, on page 3, there's a thing for a free—

Whopper.

Whopper, and that would make the rest of the book free. And I would give them the chance to buy 3. I would always say we could only buy 3 books, right? But there was a little strategy that I learned from Joe before I even knew him called what's in it for them. That when you start thinking about these calls, not as sales calls, anything that you do that makes it feel like a step in a process, Is going to be met with resistance, and they're going to play their role of the resistant pursued. And what your goal, the best thing you can do, is if you can make the sales call just seem like a spontaneous, I can help you call. And sometimes if you lay up things ahead of time, you can, if you just say to people, hey, Can you chat? Instead of like book a time on my calendar for a strategy session or a whatever it is, sometimes it's better to just text people and say, hey, I can help you with that. Can you chat? And then first of all, get them to engage in the possibility of chatting. And if you can do it quickly and spontaneously, even better. I think that's, that's how you make them fun is make it seem like it's unexpected and delightful. That oh, they just he wants to talk to me. That that's a that's a fantastic move right there.

You know, by the way, knowing that you're going to do sales also means that you're going to get rejected. You're going to have part part of doing sales is to attract who you want to attract and repel who you want to repel. And that doesn't mean offend them. You know, you're not purposely going out, even though some some people actually I think get a kick out of rejecting people at times. There what what it is is is. Going into an experience of you're either winning or you're learning, right? And you're going to understand other people's frame of reference. And when you become a student of human behavior, because really what marketing is, is applied psychology. Marketing is the quickest path to the sale. Selling is what you do when you're on the phone or face-to-face with somebody. Marketing is what you do to get them on the phone or face-to-face with you properly positioned. So, by the time you're talking to them, they're pre-interested, pre-motivated, pre-qualified, and predisposed to do business with you. And everyone that has followed us for any period of time has heard me say that many times. And part of the making selling fun, to Anna's point, is what can you do in advance? You know, our friend Robert Cialdini, where you can listen to or watch on YouTube or our interviews with him on I Love Marketing. What is pre-suasion? What do you do in advance of— see, the influence moment where you're actually going to make the sale present live, it's how well have you set it up? How well have you positioned yourself? So, part of making sales fun, you know, selling marketing done well makes selling easy and in some cases unnecessary. So, part of it is Making it a game, designing a game that you can win a lot of the times, but also knowing that you don't want everyone to say yes. What you're trying to do is you're fishing for right-fit clients. Has anyone here ever gone fishing, really fishing, and you caught a really small fish and you threw the fish back in because you're like, Yeah, this is not the right fish. I don't want to like eat this fish. It's too small. I don't want to kill the fish. Like, as weird as this is going to sound, it's— you're fishing and you're trying to find the right bait for the right fit client. And it's sort of the deal. And the ones that don't, you know, all the women on the line could attest to some person that asked them out on a date or some fish they needed to throw back out because it wasn't the right one, right? Well, you know, it's no different. That's what marketing is. Selling is seduction and you're romancing the client and you're going to see who you want to spend time with and if they want to spend time with you. So, part of it is turn it into a game that is enjoyable. And the reason some people aren't very good at it is they just haven't taken enough time to learn how to get mastery at it. And What's also great is the people that need this the most are not the ones that would ever listen to a podcast called I Love Marketing. You know, they're the ones that just hate selling, they hate marketing, they think it sucks. And there's plenty of reasons to hate selling and hate marketing if you encounter it with people that are unethical, exaggerating bullshit artists that don't care about you, that are selling you crap. I mean, like, the marketing world, the self-help world is done as much damage and harm as it has done good because there's so many unscrupulous people that utilize selling and influence in unethical ways. That's why I'm such a big fan of Robert Cialdini. For years, we've talked about the ethical use of influence. And if you've ever been a victim of the unethical use of influence, you know how bad that feels and what danger that could be. And so, people are already, uh, skeptical. Every single person here, the number one question in your mind when you, when you're going to buy something from anyone is, who can I trust? And so your job as a business owner and marketer is to establish trust and rapport. And rapport is trust with comfort. And so, uh, to go back to what Dean said, um, thank you for the acknowledgement on the what's in it for them, that, you know, the title of my whole book is like, that's how you approach people. What's in it for them? And what's not in it for them is to feel taken advantage of, that someone doesn't care, that all you— all they want is to sell something from you. They don't really— they're not really concerned with what you're looking for. They're just concerned with what they're looking for. And when you concern yourself with what, you know, they are looking for, they understand you. Again, people don't buy from you because they understand what you do. People buy from you because they feel understood. People love to be sold. They hate to be pressured. And so how you present things is in a way to where they don't feel pressured.

So, and what they want. You want a great little story to amplify this? We had a lady in my Email Mastery Program. She had a 2-year-old and she, you know, this is all about trying to get— you want to get somebody to do something that you want them to do. That's when you're taking this sales, like it's built into the way that you're communicating about it, right? Is that you're trying to get somebody on a so you can make a sale. Well, she had a 2-year-old and she was having a hard time getting him to take a bath. And every night she would go, James, it's time for your bath. It's bath time, James. And he would be resistant 'cause he's playing with his toys. He's happy doing his things. She decided one night that she would take a more cheese, less whiskers approach to it. And she went in and said with enthusiasm, James, do you want to go splash in the tub? And he goes running for the bathroom, taking his clothes off to jump in the tub to play with the toys. Now that sounds far more exciting than bath time, but it's the same, what I call mechanical outcome.

Mm-hmm.

The mechanical outcome that she wanted is James in the tub and on A sales situation, the mechanical outcome that you want is you want to be on the phone with somebody that could potentially be a good collaboration for you to help get a result that they really want. So what would be the context of a phone call that they would want to get? How could you just— that's why saying, hey, can you chat? Is a great thing rather than let's book a strategy session.

Our next question comes from Greg from the Gender Intelligence Group. Are there tips for making the use of a CRM more fun? All that data, all those people. What do you do with that data? How do you have fun with that data instead of just eyes glazing over and just seeing them all as numbers and potential dollar signs? So tips for making the use of CRM more fun. CRM more fun?

God, you know, I mean, one of the ways I absolutely make all technology and databases more fun is I avoid them completely. And my, you know, do my best to let my team do that. But let me share where I've actually made some mistakes over the years, like really big mistakes. There's something— Dean's actually really good at this. So Dean will give you a legitimate, I think, way to think about this. I can only do it from an observational standpoint. It's like trying to explain what taking acid is like to someone that's never taken acid or psilocybin journey or something. I know that sounds kind of weird. The point being, though, one of the things we've talked about is 2 things in business you don't delegate. You don't delegate the marketing and you don't delegate the checkbook unless you have a real handle on it. And of course, I think myself and many people have many times attempted or do delegate the marketing and the checkbook without having a handle on it, and then people either steal from you or the marketing gets messed up. And I never really learned much about going into CRMs. There's a company called, you know, started as Infusionsoft, now they're Keap. I was the second customer they ever had. I was an investor in the company.

Yeah.

I mean, the guys that founded it, Scott and Clay, I knew 25 years ago. I was literally the second customer. I've never used it in my life. My team has always done it. I kind of understand it and I've helped people make literally several billion dollars with marketing and advertising of all my clients that I could look at their— I can look at their list. They could describe marketing math to me. And I, as a high level, I can describe to them what to do and how to do it. But the last time that I really— there was no CRMs when I was a carpet cleaner, but I used to manage my list of clients with monthly newsletters, sales letters, prospects. off 3x5 cards in a shoebox. And I had an early, you know, early on, we used ACT. And when I, I don't know if you guys, those of you who've been around long enough to ACT, I knew it inside and out. And I'll tell you, when you understand your top customers and clients and you can really go in and, you know, you just know how to reach them and target them and you focus on buyers, And subscribers, you can do a lot. But the way— so the way to make it fun is to make sales. The way to make it fun is to know that the fortune is in the follow-up. So, I know people that have— are so dialed and spreadsheets and the most sophisticated thing, they cannot— they can't sell anything. And then people are like ADD crazy-ass entrepreneurs that just have the like You know, we got something that's going to help someone. Let's make an incredible offer. Let's get it out to the list and they're going to buy stuff, you know. So anyway, you know, Dean continuously consults with people on how to leverage their database. I think it was Nicole in here that talked about how she did at the very beginning when you're asking questions in the chat, putting out the 9-word email, you know, I mean, you know, having using a CRM to use a 9-word email, go into your CRM and send out an email.

CRM is such a That's a great way to gather intelligence, right? Like you can observe what's actually happening with people. And, you know, I think I love this theme of making it more fun. What's fun is if you were thinking it would be fun to make calls if you were in charge of announcements for the Publishers Clearing House sweepstakes.

Yeah.

If your job was to call people and let them know that they've just won the sweepstakes, that would be a fun thing to do. And, you know, not to be a publicist for what's in it for them, but the idea of thinking that way is how can you get to the point where you Really are giving them a blessing that it's almost like they're going to be so much better off. They're going to be thrilled that you called them. If, Joe, do you think if I can tell this story in 2 minutes and 20 seconds, give me 2 minutes and 20 seconds to set up a perfect example of this. I work with a company that does reverse mortgages. Big company, national, uh, big company. Now, one of the most likely people to get a reverse mortgage, especially what's called a home equity conversion mortgage, where you can use it to purchase a home— the— it allows people to come and put 50% down, live in a house for, uh, forever, and never make a mortgage payment. So people coming from Chicago, moving to Tucson will be— they take the money from the big house, they want to get a house with no payment, and this is a great way for them to be able to do that. Well, if as a reverse mortgage loan officer in a local market, the way that they will often make sales calls is call on real estate agents. Who are dealing with people who are buying homes, but they're always positioning themselves behind the realtor. So if Burgundy was a realtor, they'd be calling her and intro— let me just introduce myself. Let me, you know, take you to lunch or get, you know, get to know and give me a chance with some of your things. But the phone call that Burgundy really wants is somebody calling with a buyer for one of her listings. And so if you think about this, we kind of dig your well before you're thirsty, or think about what's in it for them. We started thinking, how could we make that phone call to people? So we put together a directory of Tucson active adult communities, and we ran and generated leads. For people looking for active adult 55+ communities in Tucson. We generated 1,000 of those leads, communicating with them, sending them updates. And when somebody would call and get excited about the ability to purchase a home with 50% down, live in it with no mortgage payment, the only job next was that they had to find a house that they were going to buy. So we ran off a list of all of the listings in that active communities. There were 190-something listings represented by 93 different realtors, of which the loan officer in the area only knew 3. So we were able to reach out to them and say to Burgundy, Hey, texting Burgundy. Burgundy is 22 Arroyo still available? And Burgundy would text back and say yes. And then we would say perfect. I may have a buyer for you. Can you chat? Now there it is. That's the whole thing is that's a phone call that any realtor would love to take. So when you get on the phone call. Thinking about the mechanical outcome that you're looking for. You want to meet this person and have a meaningful conversation with them. So they were able to say, perfect, let me show you what we've been doing. We've got a couple from Poughkeepsie that are coming. They're looking for something in this, in an active adult community. Can I meet you at the house and shot and shoot a walkthrough? video for them. Now you're in the house with a realtor who lists homes in active adult communities that you can build a relationship with, and you got there by splashing in the tub, not, hey, do you got a few minutes for me to take you to lunch and pick your brain? It's a whole different thing when you engineer the situation that the phone call is a delight and a blessing that they're going to receive, not that you're— there's something in it for you.

Yep.

Is that what you were trying to say?

Yes, exactly.

That's right.

We are taking questions from the audience. Fun questions, marketing questions. Fred Young asks, in our auto repair business, it's typically a grudge purpose. They come in with a plan to spend $60, and then we present them with another $600 needed. How would you fellas change the customer mindset, the grudge part, and how do you make it more fun for the customer to spend more money? They're thinking they're going to spend $60, they're spending $600. Joe, you probably have some carpet background on that. Dean, you're just smart. Let's hear what these guys say.

Go ahead, Dean.

Joe, go ahead, Dean. I'm really interested in these questions. Like, it feels like we're playing Stump the Band on these things. So in the context, It's one of those things that they've got a problem that they weren't expecting, that they weren't hoping for. And so it's hard when you're thinking that people are, you know, in this bad situation. What I always love is one thing that you can do to make things fun is think about who else would be A good— what could you include that they're getting with this, that because of this they had a bad situation, but now they're getting this good situation that comes out of it? Like when you think about the VCR formula, the vision plus capability multiplied by reach, what you have anytime that you help somebody do something, you have reach. To somebody who has just done a thing that you are looking there. And if you've got the opportunity to get in front of that person, like, wouldn't it be cool if every time you have an accident in your vehicle and you get your car repaired, that you get this, you know, bundle of goodies that come along with it because of it, that your $600 turned into— you know, $1,000 worth of value that everybody who is like, now that you've got kind of your car nice and neat, you're going to want to keep it washed and detailed. Or maybe you want to get some new rims, or maybe you want to get some new stereo, or any of these things that you turn whatever you just spent there into an advantage that you're, you know, you've got the opportunity to give that to, um, to everybody that, that has a, uh, that has an accident.

I think, uh, I think Dean covered it.

The next question we're going to ask is, how do you use fun to sell something that people think is confusing, boring, and depressing? Patrick Sokoloff, I'm sure I pronounced that wrong.

Boy, I mean, part of that is the delivery of it and the framing of it. And there's a lot of, you know, David Ogilvy, who wrote Ogilvy on Advertising, one of the smartest marketers that ever lived. I'd highly encourage people to read his book. I think it's written in the '80s, right, Dean? Ogilvy on Advertising. And he said, you cannot bore people into buying.

Mm-hmm.

So, there's a lot of people that have very exciting things. But then, if you read Gene Schwartz's Breakthrough Advertising, I mean, you have to evoke a desire that is already there, no matter, you know, it's, it's, it's not— you can't create someone to desire something they have no interest in, or— but, but every— everyone has a bit of a pilot light that just needs to be turned up. So, it's, it's often not what you say, it's, it's how you say it. And that's the whole point of, you know, marketing now. Dean, I almost think this is important to reiterate what the whole purpose of I Love Marketing was created for in the first place.

Mm-hmm.

If one of the biggest obstacles people have with being effective at marketing is they underestimate the importance of it. And there's a lot of different perspectives that people have of what marketing is. And if you think of marketing, and many people do, most people actually do, that you're doing something to somebody, Versus for them, you're going to have a completely different interaction with it. So, if you're like, well, I got something that's really boring, and you believe that, then you've already sold yourself on the fact that this is going to be hard to sell.

Mm-hmm.

That, again, kind of goes back to what I said earlier. You have to really believe in what it is that you are selling and how there's a benefit to it. If it's really boring but it really works or it really helps, what is the pain selling? David Sandler's original book, You Can't Teach a Kid How to Ride a Bike at a Seminar, is really about pain selling, not just features and benefits. A feature is what a product or service is or what it does. A benefit is what it does for the person who's buying it. So, even if you think it's boring, what does it do for the person that's actually buying it. And that's what's fun. That's what's enjoyable. You know, when you're selling travel, you're selling the destination. You're not selling the travel. Like, the travel sucks. You're going to go to TSA. You're going to have delayed flights. You're going to, you know, their motto in the airline industry is, we're not happy till you're not happy.

Right.

You're going to deal with a bunch of bullshit. But if you show up in Hawaii and you see the beautiful beach and you have all this thing and you're going to have, you know, whatever, a wonderful time with your family or with your loved one or whatever, you sell the destination. You don't sell the travel. No one cares about— well, maybe they care. They don't want to hear about the labor pains. They want to see the baby. So, you got to, you know, that's where you kind of got to go at. Those are my thoughts, Dean. So—

Well, by far, The most fun that I've ever had in a marketing situation is something that I did with my friend Lane Bowers. And Lane Bowers was a former world champion barefoot water skier. And he had the best training DVD program that was on the market for teaching people how to barefoot water ski. And he was selling it for $59. And we did this super fun project where we were thinking, how could we make it like magic for people to learn how to barefoot? Well, they really think there's some easy way. So we created this product that we called Slick Feet 50. And the idea was this magic lotion that you put on the bottom of your feet that could magically make you a better barefoot water skier. And we packaged it as the SlickFeet 50 Barefoot Success System. And the system included that you buy the SlickFeet 50. And we had— we just had so much fun creating the order of things that would happen. You order your SlickFeet 50, and then the UPS man's going to deliver your Slick Feet 50, and then the instructions are to apply a thin layer of Slick Feet 50 on your, on your, the bottom surface of your feet, then it's important that you keep your feet fully elevated for 2 hours and then watch the 2-hour instructional DVD that comes with your Slick Feet 50. And then get 8 hours of sleep and you wake up and you're a better barefoot water skier. So we focused on, instead of selling the DVD, we sold the SlickFeet 50 for $59 and the DVD was included. But the mechanism that we used to introduce the idea is we sent an email to people and the subject line was Confession. And then with the email was, Hey Joe, I wanted you to hear this from me before it comes out in Waterski Magazine, and then click here. It was a link, and it was like a press release that said, you know, world champion barefooter Lane Dog Bauer swears under oath that Slick V50 does not contain illegal performance enhancers and should be legal for use in international competition. And then we told the story that as as an Olympic international competitor. I've been tested more than any other person in my sport, and I've never been, never been on the other side of using performance enhancers. But how am I able to ski better than anybody else? And we went through and told the whole thing, and it was just so much fun. in writing it, and it was always done with such tongue-in-cheek that we laughed because sometimes people would come, and one of the kids was asking Lane, like, well, this can't be. This isn't real, is it? Like, everybody's kind of like, Santa's not real, is he? Like, this is not really doing anything. A doctor was saying to him that, you know, I'm a doctor. There's no scientific proof behind this actually doing anything. But the system is that you're applying it and you're watching the DVD, and guaranteed you're going to be a better water skier after watching the DVD. So it's this, the whole system that makes the difference. We laughed. I've never— I mean, just laughing and laughing creating this. John Benson and I sat at a Genius Network meeting, and we laughed till we were almost peeing with coming up with this idea of a weight loss pebble that you keep in your pocket. And every time you go to eat, you take this pebble and then follow John's diet system. I mean, it was just so funny. You ritualize the compliance of what you're actually supposed to be doing, you know, but making it appear like there's some magic because you've got this pebble.

Kylan Schroeder wants to know, what are your favorite sales follow-up fun tips? What do you got?

You know, I think one of the best examples would be my buddy Derek Sivers. He had a company called CD Baby. And CD Baby, I have a great interview with Derek, which you can listen to on my YouTube channel. Dean, why don't you explain what CD Baby did? And I'm gonna find the famous CD Baby sales letter from Derek Sivers.

Yeah, this was great. So CD Baby, you know, every opportunity, every moment in a timeline becomes an opportunity. And what CD Baby realized, that their most opened email of all the emails that they send was the receipt for your purchase or confirmation of your order. As soon as somebody's most excited about it and they open that, and most companies Just send a generic. Here's the day we got your order. Here's confirmation. Here's the confirmation number. But what they did, they created a letter that when people, as soon as your order came in, he goes through and just tells people how excited they were when we got the order. When your order came in, everybody dropped everything. The bell rang. We all created this. We We all said a chant. We put your— wrapped your CD in the finest, in the finest wrapping. We all marched down to the post office to wing your order to you on the CD Baby private jet. And we're all exhausted, but we hope that you were excited that you'll come back and shop again at CD Baby.

Let me read this from Derek's blog post. All right, so here it goes. When you make, uh, the most successful email I ever wrote is what it's titled. When you make a business, you're making a little world where you control the laws. It doesn't matter how things are done everywhere else in your little world. You can make it like it should be. When I first built CD Baby in 1998, every order resulted in an automated email that let the customer know when the CD was actually shipped. At first, this note was just the normal, your order has shipped today. Please let us know if it doesn't arrive. Thank you for your business. After a few months, that felt really incongruent with my mission to make people smile. I knew I could do better. So, I took 20 minutes and wrote this goofy little thing. Your CD has been— and so, here's what he would—

Here's the actual letter.

Yeah, here's the letter. Your CD has been gently taken from our CD Baby shelves with sterilized contamination-free gloves and placed on a satin pillow. A team of 50 employees inspected your CD and polished it to make sure it was the best possible condition. It was in the best possible condition before mailing. Our packing specialists from Japan lit a candle and a hush fell over the crowd as he put your CD into the finest gold-lined box that money can buy. We all had a wonderful celebration afterwards, and the whole party marched down the street to the post office where the entire town of Portland waved bon voyage. To your package on its way to you in our private CD Baby jet on this day, Friday, June 6th. I hope you had a wonderful time shopping at CD Baby. We sure did. Your picture is on our wall as Customer of the Year. We're all exhausted but can't wait for you to come back to cdbaby.com. That once— and then that's, that's the end of it. And then he writes, that one silly email sent out with every order has been so loved that if you search the web for private CD Baby Jet, you'll get thousands of results. Each one is somebody who got the email and loved it enough to post it on his website and tell all his friends. That one goofy email created thousands of new customers. When you're thinking of how to make your business bigger, it's tempting to try to think of all the big thoughts that come up with world-changing massive— and come up with world-changing massive action plans. But please know that it's often the tiny details that really thrill people enough to make them tell all their friends about you. And so, that would be a great example. And now, with AI, every single one of you can create your version or get assistance in something like that. And so, Mark, who's the founder of imemories.com, I just put up a video on our YouTube channel with him, an interview that he did, which is It's phenomenal and I would highly encourage you to watch that. But it's polish.tv, goes directly to my YouTube channel, by the way. You know, this CD Baby is a great example. Every one of you can have an after-the-sale or during-the-sale communication like that in order to infuse fun. And doing something like that really is easy, lucrative, and fun.

You know who else is really fun is Jesse Cole from the Savannah Bananas. We did a great I Love Marketing episode. I think it's number 410, something like that. But he's, you know, he's got a great book, Find Your Yellow Tux. But his whole thing is about making baseball fun. And so many great ideas in that. That's a huge home run. It's a billion-dollar company now.

It's crazy to talk about a guy who has had such a belief in his idea and just put everything that he had behind it. I mean, it's such a great success story, and he's genuinely just a cool dude. One of the Savannah Banana players has a larger following than any Major League Baseball player. Like, I mean, their social media is incredible.

I will tell you, in the early days of podcasting, one of the things we did was we, uh, we burned, um, podcast episodes to CD. Some people actually liked that or did best of, did really well with the comedy guys. And I'll tell you, one of the most, one of the most confusing, boring, and depressing ideas was, uh, working with fulfillment agencies to ship these CDs. And what was great was I heard, oh, there's these CD Baby guys, they make it fun. And so we went from something absolutely depressing and absolutely annoying to, you know, hanging out with these people online because they were so You've been listening to a live recording of the I Love Marketing Podcast. And if you'd like to come to a future live recording of the I Love Marketing Podcast where all sorts of wackiness comes into play, visit us at ilovemarketing.com. Make sure you sign up and we will do that in the future.