This Is What They Don’t Teach You About Prison Reform – From a Man Who Lived It ft. Andre Norman

Okay, Joe, we're officially starting the video. Okay, so where are you going?

We're going to a woman's prison based on your recommendation. Because I have not been in this prison before. And you're the one that runs a prison in North Carolina. You've been, you've spent 14 years in maximum security prison. You know the world of the incarcerated and how to, you know, help them, at least the ones that are helpable. And we're here to learn and explore it. You tell me what's going to happen.

Have you been to prison before?

I've been to prison, but not like, not as an inmate and certainly not for anywhere near the depths of going and talking to the prisoners and, you know, groups like you have. So the best that my involvement spend is genius recovery content and stuff and learning and sharing from our members as a result of you getting it into the prisons.

So now you. How do you feel about going to prison today?

I mean, I'm looking forward to it. I mean, look at it out here. That's it right here. And so, I mean, I guess, you know, you've been to this one how many times?

This is my second time coming here.

Okay. So, I mean, I'm excited for it. I want to see what I could possibly do. I mean, it always. It's like the same reason I go to 12 step groups. I mean, you, you see the suffering and the struggles that people have gone through. And I try to, you know, associate bad behavior from badness as a person. You know, some people have done bad things, but they're not fundamentally bad people. They've just been in places in their life where they', struggling, you know, where they're desperate. And I believe, and you correct me If I'm wrong, 40% of people that are incarcerated. 10, no, 40. 40% of people, you said 10% are not guilty, but 40% have committed some sort of violent crime. So 60% is not violent. So that means there's just a lot of people that. It never got into violence, but they're, you know, they, they made decisions and choices that and, you know, ended up getting them.

You have a saying. If you could see somebody's atmospheric, lifesty position, you'd understand the decisions that they make.

Yeah, yeah. Dr. Don Wood says if you understood the atmospheric conditions in somebody's life, it would make sense why they do what they do. So what I've learned is that, you know, there's a reason all of these people. Should I go up to this.

This is it right here, right?

Yeah.

It'S the same place.

So. Yeah, so that's where we're going right there.

Let me see.

Arizona State Prison Complex, Perryville.

We're gonna go inspire people, share hope, and give them the reasons that they need to just find a better part of themselves and go forward. We can't change anybody. We can give them the reasons to change. Yeah.

And in this particular time, you're way more qualified in this area than I am because this is a bit of a new one for me, but I think I'm gonna get used to this. So hopefully we do a lot more of this.

It's not qualifications. It's just going through the first rendition of getting it done. Because you know what you know you are who you are, and that's all that they want. When you come to prison, you talk to people. You don't have to be like them, just be like you. Cuz they need to learn how to be like you, not like their old selves. Ladies and gentlemen, we will see you on the other side. Foreign. Ladies and gentlemen, it is your host, co host, Andre Norman. It's a Genius Network podcast. We're coming back to you for 2024 and beyond. And today I'm here with my brother. So none other than Joe Polish.

Great. Are we recording? Because that sounds actually pretty professional. If it is, we're just gonna roll with it. So this has been an interesting day. We spent almost four hours speaking at Perryville Prison, women's prison, the only woman's prison, I believe in Arizona. Yeah. And that was your setup. We'll give a little bit of background for people that don't know who Andre Norman is, what we're doing there. But first time I ever did anything like that, where I went and spoke to the inmates and man, you said, let's bring Genius Network into the woman's prison. Second time that you've been at this particular prison because you are involved in over 650,000 tablets that are in prisons in the United States. And one of the women had seen one of your videos and I guess you said at the end of the video, if you want to see me come to your prison, then contact your caseworkers.

So caseworker now come in case.

Yeah. And this woman did. And then the caseworker tracked you down and they said, wow, you know, you actually did what you said you're going to do and how many people have come here and they never come back? And you said you would and you made a big emphasis on it. And then I mentioned the Dan Sullivan referability Habits where if you want to have people refer you and like you, there's four referability habits. Do what you say you're going to do. Show up on time. You could say the show up on time first. Show up on time, do what you say you're going to do, finish what you start and say please and thank you. And they're really simple. There's nothing rocket science about those. But put together, there are people that show up on time, but they don't do what they say they're going to do. There's other people that show up on time and do what they say they're going to do, but they don't finish what they start. So are they really doing what they say they're going to do if they don't finish it right? And then there are people that do all three of those things and they don't say please and thank you. Or there may be people that say please and thank you. So you have to do all four of those right consistently in order to show others that you respect them. And that's one of the things, one of the many things that we discussed today. So I'd like to get into that conversation more. But for people that don't know who you are and your background, I would love for you to share a little bit of your story. I can do it, too, but I'd rather you do it.

Yeah.

Because I know your story quite well. We've been working together now for five.

Years, going on six. Yes. Andre Norman. Boston, Massachusetts, born and raised. It's a sad day. Our coach, Bill Belichick, of 24 years has stepped down. I'm saying it's been a quarter century since we needed new coach, but there's always going to be transition. Yeah, but real talk, grew up in the city, tough childhood. And I remember I was sitting in maximum security prison in solitary confinement for two and a half years. And while I was sitting in maximum security in solitary confinement, looking at a brick wall, I said to myself, enough's enough. And I wanted to do something different. And I wanted to be successful, not just free, because so many people just want to be free, which is technically the parking lot. I said, I want to be successful, which means I never come back here. And I set a goal to go to Harvard University and become educated and successful. The world thought I was crazy. My grandmother, my father, my mother, my gang. Everybody thought I lost my mind in prison. Daily people snap. You might be there for five years, 10 years, 30 years. And this one day your brain can't take it. It says, I'm never getting out of here, or this is never getting better. And you literally. I've seen people just lose it, and they become like. Like. Like they're on. Like, on meds. They just literally lose it, and they stop becoming themselves. Too much pressure. And when I said, I'm going home and going to Harvard, people thought I snapped. They say, man, Dre lost it. He can't take it no more. I'm in the hole for two and a half years in the basement with no sunlight. They're like, dre snapped. That was the word. Dre snapped. He gone, man. He's no longer Dre. He's talking crazy. We mean, he's talking about he's going to Harvard University. This dude can't read. He's a gang member. He stabs people. He's always in the hole. Now he's someone who's going to Harvard, man. He snapped. He's having delusions of grandeur. He's just gone. But I believed it. I didn't go crazy. I believed it was possible. I taught myself how to read. I taught myself the law. I went to the law library, taught myself how to actually fight my case, Started going to counseling, therapy. I went to NA and AA because all of my friends and family are addicts. I just worked really hard for eight straight years. I overturned my case and I came home. And I came home. I walked out of prison about 10 o' clock in the morning, signed into the parole office, and then left there and went to the juvenile center because a kid had asked me the same thing that lady asked me. Will you come see us when you get out? Because I work with juveniles from behind the wall. So I went straight to the prison for the juveniles, started working with them.

So same day, though, you got out.

10Am and you go directly to 11:30. I was in the juvenile center. Wow. I drove from the prison to the parole office, from the parole office to youth center.

Did you have a car?

Somebody picked me up. They drove me from the prison to the parole office. I signed the papers. I came out and said, dre, where you want to go? I'm going to go see your mom, see your girl, get something to eat. I said, now take me to the juvie center. They said, what? I said, I promised the kids, they used to come up to the prison, that I would come see them. Take me to the juvenile center. It's right in the hood. So I went over to the juvenile center. When I finished talking, one of the kids were like, will you come back tomorrow? That's all he said. Will you come back tomorrow? And the next day, we come back tomorrow. And they just kept saying it. And I started to work with all the juvies. And they asked me to talk to the girls. I started talking to the girls. I went back to my mother's church. I started talking to those kids with my old high school. Then some lady came and told me. She said, you won't help white kids. Why not? I said, white kids don't need help. They're fine. They own every damn thing. Then she said, no, it's not like that. All I've ever known of white people was Leave it to Beaver, Brady Bunch, 90210, Partridge Family. And they don't have problems. They don't have drug addicts. They don't have depression. They don't have suicide on any of those shows.

And by the way, so for some people that are young and be like, what the hell? What year are you talking about?

I was born in 1967. So all the TV shows I grew up watching you was no smoking. I remember one show I watched, the parents couldn't sleep in the same bed. It was like old school. Old school. But the baseline is, I went to the white school. They drink, they smoke, they have sex. They got bullies. They got kids who cut their arms and everything. And it was shocking to me because it was just like, unheard of.

You were insulated from thinking that was happening.

It's impossible for rich white kids to have a bad life. When you're on the bottom, you think that you're really. There's nobody down there with you. And I'm looking up, oh, they got everything made. Like, how many celebrities have died? Suicide, overdose. Yeah. Michael Jackson and Prince. Oh, my God. Gone. Drug overdoses. Two of the greatest entertainers ever. Drug overdoses. Their lives were so pressurized that they needed drugs to sustain, and it took them out. So before I'm sitting, I'd love to be Prince. I'd love to be Michael Jackson. I love to be John Belushi. I love to be. I can go down the list. And the fact that they're not here, I'm like, you don't see their lives. You see the TV show, right? And the TV shows I saw didn't show the real life of white kids. So I started working with white kids. Then Spanish kids. I'm in Guatemala. That's what I started doing. And I met a guy one time flying home from Philadelphia. He said, I'm going to Introduce you to a group called ypo. They need to hear your story. I'm like, rich white dudes, I'm like, why am I going to talk to them? He said, they want to make a change in the world and you can be the vehicle. And it struck me, he said, you can help them help change the world. They need you more than you need them. So I started working with YPO and the deal was I'd come to YPO.

Speech, define YPO.

YPO stands for Young Presidents Organization. It's probably 34,000 CEOs around the world. It's the number one CEO network that's out. And all these CEOs around the world are getting together, have monthly meetings and when they, they pay crazy rates, they pay, they Pay super rates. 10, 20, 30, 40, 50,000 is no problem. There's nobody they can't afford if your fees 250, it's not a problem. If they want you, they can afford it. There's no fee they can't afford. So they're paying me corporate rates now. But the deal wasn't for me just to make corporate money. It gave me a chance to do outreach in other cities. So now I'm doing outreach in Pittsburgh, I'm doing outreach in Sweden, I'm doing outreach in Honduras, I'm doing outreach in all these different cities, New York and Boston, in Harrisburg, in California, wherever the chapters ago. But the deal was if you bring me in for high paid speech, which I call high paid, you got to give me two or three days of volunteer work. That's it. So I would go to a city like St. Louis. I stayed for eight days doing volunteer work before I gave a speech. I went to the Bahamas, ypo. I was there for like 10 days doing outreach before I gave my speech. And that was my way of doing that. And that's how I became the highest rated speaker. Not just because I spoke well, but I made impact in every single city. I went to Saudi Arabia, to Sweden, to Australia. Every place I went, we did outreach.

Well, you know, tell the story of how we've talked about this before on different, you know, we've done a few interviews and stuff before, but when we first met, give the version of, from your perspective of how you perceive it. Because I have a, you know, my perception, even though it's the same thing, just different ways of explaining it. And then I'll share what I witnessed you do, which solidified why I felt this is a good reason that I want to get behind this guy and work with him. But go ahead and tell how we met, and then I'll share what happened after that. Hey, I hope you're enjoying this video. And I want to let you know that I have a new book that's come out and if you'd like to get it absolutely free, there's a link below in the description. Or you can wait till the end of this video, or you can Simply go to joe'sfreebook.com and you can get a copy there.

My whole life had crashed out. I've been a top rated speaker making 10, 15,000 speech, speaking all over the world. I'm living great. My whole life crashes out. Everything's gone. I moved back to Atlanta. I start my life over doing okay. I'm selling real estate. I'm minding my business. My friends in St. Louis, Dan Curran, John Ruling, John O', Leary, Rusty Keeley, Keith Alper and Dave Spence there were friends I met through YPO. They called me back down to St. Louis and said, what are you doing? I said, well, you know, my life just crashed out. They helped me out. I said, so I'm selling real estate. They said, that's not what you do. I said, man, if these other people can make money, we doing real estate, so can I. Real estate's not what you do. You need to get back to speaking. And they put together a board of directors for my life, these six men. They said, we're going to help you get back out and do what you do, which is help people. Then I get an email like a week later from some lady saying, hey, will you come? Will you be on my podcast? I said, where are you? She said, phoenix. I said, well, I come to Phoenix and do it in person. She said, no, you can just do it on Skype. I said, if you're going to have me on your podcast, I. I'm going to come do it in person. So she said, fine. So I flew out here. We went out to dinner on a Monday. It was Monday. I flew in. I said, well, by the way, how did you find me? She said, oh, John Rulin sent out an email blast and I saw you. So I reached out. So I took out my phone. I was like, yo, John, I'm here with your people. You know what I'm saying? We're about to do this podcast. And I sent him the video. He called me 10 seconds later. He says, I don't know that lady. I said, she said it. You hooked her up? He said, no, she's on my email list. I said, what's that he says, dre, what are you doing? You flew to Phoenix to do a podcast? I said, yeah. He said, well, since you're there, I want to call all my friends and introduce you around and plug you in. I said, cool. He called a bunch of people. One of them was Michael Bernoff. He had never met Michael Bernoff, but he called him anyways. Michael Bernoff calls me and says, hey, I got a call from John Rulin. He asked me to meet with you. I don't have time. I'm in the process of starting. He was opening up his new office. He said, I don't have time. I'm super busy. But maybe next time they're polite. I'm saying, call. I said, no problem, brother. And before we hung up, I said, by the way, is there anybody I can help? I just had a sense to ask that question. He said, by the way, my wife's best friend son is suicidal. I said, let's go. So we jumped in the car. I drove to Scottsdale. We go to the house. I talk to the kid, 20, 30 minutes. He goes to his mother, gives her a hug, and says, take me to treatment. Because they couldn't get him to go. He goes to treatment from that day to this. He's doing phenomenal. He's doing phenomenal. Then Mike did it again. We did it twice. He said, you gotta meet my friend Joe Polish. I was like, all right, cool. But I'm meeting all kinds of people throughout the week. So we come down to Scottsdale. Old Scott's there to meet you for lunch. You come in with your yoga clothes on, and I'm laughing like, who's it? I'm saying, who's the guy? And we just started talking, and you was like, what's your situation? And I was like, yo, I'm in transition. You said, well, what does it cost you to live where you live? And I told you. I said, 5,000amonth is about my average cost. You said, I'm gonna give you 5,000amonth for five months, no questions asked. Go live your best life. Come by my office tomorrow. My assistant will write you a check, and she'll send you one every for the next four months. I came by your office, and I came in. You wrote the check, we made a quick video, and I took a picture. And then you said, oh, by the way, my meeting Genius Network is tomorrow, and the day after, you can come if you want. So I was like, cool. I just stayed. So I came to the Thursday meeting, 25k meeting, and I'm just hanging around downstairs and I'm meeting people, and there was a lady by the front desk. I can see pain, I can see stress. I can see hurt. So I would just be walking around your building and I would see people and I would approach them like, hey, what's really going on? I get them to confide in me and I'd help them. And then we got to a point where that just became my role for you. A genius. This random black guy downstairs solved my problems. Can we. Can we, can he. What's the best part of your week, man? The guy downstairs saved my brother. And then we just. That was my thing. And we just been rolling ever since. And I remember, I'll never forget, I was in the Mall of America in Minnesota. I'm sitting in the mall and you called me. And when you called me, I'm like, okay, I knew you a little bit. And you called me and you just started talking. I guess to other people that's normal. But to me, I'm like, okay, that's Joe Polish. He runs this massive. Why is he calling me? And when you called me, I said, he needs someone to be there for him. That was my. I sat. I remember I sat down in the restaurant, I stopped moving, and I listened to you for as long as you needed to talk. And I said, he needs someone to be there for him. And I said, well, he was there for me. I'm gonna be there for him. Because at the time, you're good. You got this giant building, this massive company. You're fine, you help. You can help people. But when you call me that day, I said, he needs somebody in his corner. And you didn't know who you helped. You had no understanding. Like, I was like the third ranking gang member in the country. I done rock and roll all over the planet. And I'm about. I'm loyal. And the one thing you needed was somebody who was gonna be loyal to you. Not to the company, not to an agency, not to a business deal, but to you. And you ran up on one of the most loyalist dudes ever, and you helped me with no questions asked. And I said, I'm just gonna be there for you. I'm gonna show you what loyalty is from the penitentiary world, I'm saying. So you've been getting penitentiary loyalty for the last five years, which is pretty good.

Yeah, well.

Wow.

No, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I think it was that night. Or was it the next night?

We went to the house with the kids.

Yeah. And that's so you would share with me. And I remember saying, okay, you know, I charge 25,000 a year for this. I don't ever have anyone come as a guest unless they. I'm interviewing them or they're speaking or I'm a business partner with them or they work for me. And I said, you know, I'm going to pay you 5,000 bucks a month for five months. I'll be 25,000. And I'd like you to see what we do, and it'll teach you how to build and run your business. Not knowing. I didn't go into this with any expectation. I was just like, I could see you were wanting to help people. I really felt you would, genuine and sincere, which you are. And I wanted to support that. Right. So it didn't require me to. And I have the means to do it. You know this whole thing where people say money can't buy happiness. I say, well, that's bullshit, because I buy happiness all the time.

I got an iPhone 15. What you talking about? Yeah, I got my Apple watch on what you talking about.

So the funny thing about that is, like, say that you are buying things, but none of that makes you feel happy.

Right?

Because happiness is not, not always necessarily the goal. People that say money can't buy happiness haven't given enough of it away. And if you can help other people with money to improve their situation, medical care, sometimes feeding them, you can do a lot with money. And I am also very careful. I don't like giving people loans. It better be a really dire situation. And I mean, even close friends, I oftentimes will because I learned over the.

Years loans up a friendship fast.

Exactly, exactly. And oftentimes people end up not being resourceful when they think they can just get other people. So it enables people oftentimes. And you also take on someone's life problems when making it your responsibility, which screws you oftentimes twice. Not only are you out of the money or now you're put into that situation, but now you're caught up in a drama. Exactly, exactly. So it takes a lot for me to do that, unless I really see the intention. What really, though, solidified going deeper with you is you're in town doing this stuff, but you're like, yeah, I'm going to go speak at this group. And you're like. And you said, yeah, I'm just doing it. I was asking you and you're just volunteering to do it. So I'm like, can I go to this? And you're like, yeah, and so I go to this home where all of these YPO members are there with their kids and, and like this big giant family gathering sort of thing in this big ass living room in a nice house. And I'm just seeing you pour into helping all of these kids that have struggles. And I'm like, man, this dude really is wanting to help, really doing good work. And that's what really got me to see that. Yeah, you're a badass. I mean, you don't need to do any of this stuff, but you're doing it to add value to the world. Because, you know, you were an ex convict, you spent 14 years in maximum security prison. You had a really shitty, difficult life. You found a spiritual awakening in the middle of something I couldn't even fathom, and you got out.

I think you might do good in maximum security, Joe. I may know why. I think you would do really good in solitary confinement. You would be at peace. Nobody could disturb you. You could think all day long. I mean, maybe.

I don't know if I want to try that.

I'm just saying if you went to solitaire conf. Joe, nobody could bother you. The only problem is you can't send people voice messages. Yeah.

Or all these texts and all that.

No texting, no voice. Unless you got a hot phone.

It'd be miserable. It'd be no.

So. Well, I remember you got tablets now. Let me take that back. We'll give you a tablet. You can send out voice messages.

Can people send voice messages on those?

No.

You?

I don't believe so. You can definitely send an email. Yeah, I don't think they can do voice messages yet. You can't record anything.

Well, let's talk about that. So right now we're getting Genius Network and Genius Recovery, which is my addiction recovery foundation. Let me say this again. The tagline for it is to change the global conversation about how people view and treat addicts with compassion instead of judgment and find the best forms of treatment that have efficacy and share it with the world. And so my world is helping entrepreneurs, connecting entrepreneurs. The main thing is connection, help connect people. And same thing with addiction recovery is to connect people with themselves. Because I believe addiction is a connection disorder. It is a response to pain, it's a response to trauma, it's biochemical, There's a lot of stuff. And so these tablets are the mechanism for the incarcerated. And it's just in America right now, right?

Right.

Yeah. So there's 2.2 million people that are incarcerated in America. 25 of the world's prisoners are in America. So we're the highest incarcerated country in the world. And 600,000 get out every year and another 600,000 go in.

It kind of balances out. 600 go out, 600 come in, 650 go out. They keep the numbers. They work it out.

It's interesting when you say they. Is this a coordinated quota that some.

It just works out like that. I mean, we'll just call it fate. You know what I'm saying? Hypothetically, like, 600,000 people leave prison and another 600,000 come back. Yeah.

I wonder if there's some, you know, bureaucrats somewhere that are doing KPIs to try to figure out how to, you know.

I mean, this is the thing about prison. The wardens, the director of commissioner, all the people who run prisons have nothing to do with the people in the prison. All they do, they receive them. They don't try them, they don't arrest them, they don't do anything. The prison just receives you. I'm not saying they give you the best treatment on planet Earth or the best food or the best medical care, but the prison itself has no factor with you going to it. That's the police, that's the da, that's the judge, and that's our bad attorneys. Yeah, so that the police arrest you, the DA prosecutes you, the judge sentences you. All the prison does is receive you. And they'll hold you for the term that the judge gave. Based on what the DA said? Based on what the policeman said, yeah. So the prison itself, we blame the prison for a lot of the problems. They're just a receiving agency.

Makes sense.

So it's really. It starts at the ground level, where the district attorney determines the level of crime you face. So I get arrested, you get arrested, you get more money for a better lawyer. So the chances are your lawyer is gonna come in, you pay them a hundred grand, he's gonna know the DA or somebody knows the da. It's gonna be the back room conversation. You're gonna get a chance to go, I seen a kid I work with, third offense, domestic violence. His parents could pay for him to go to a brain clinic because it was something wrong with him versus going to jail. So the judge released him to a medical facility for brain injuries. The kid didn't have a brain injury, but you could get a diagnosis and then you can swing it, swing it to the courts and the judges is looking for. Okay, okay, cool. Send them the brain factory. Let them go get fixed.

Right.

But I can't afford a brain doctor. I can't afford. And they paid out of pocket for, for him to be in that center. My mother can't force. I'm going to county jail. I'm saying poor people go to county jail, rich people make bail. That's the whole argument around bail doesn't work because it's only poor people can't afford bail. If the richest person in America committed a crime and the bill is $5 billion, he's walking out. But I can't pay 100,000, I can't pay 10,000. So it's not about when it comes to that. Prisons just receive people and they're receiving a lot of people. So the people going in and coming out, parole, probation, none of that's predicated on the facility itself. They just house you. They're responsible for programming and arrest, all that type of food. But coming and going, they have no bearing on none.

Yeah. So. Well, okay, so I brought. Thank you for that education too. I mean, I learned more and more.

I'm a prison expert.

Yeah, of course. No, I totally know you are. It appears that you are a prison expert. Well, let's talk about guys like what's recent and controversial. Hunter Biden, Jeffrey Epstein, you know, someone who is that wealthy who just skirted.

The law for a while. Every now and again you're going to take a hit. I mean, some stuff you can't get at some point, right? At some point, money can't buy your way out, right? Even when I was a kid, I was a cute little 15 year old, the judge would let me go and the judge let me go afterwards. You're not cute there more. Let's go. But Jeffrey Epstein, he had enough money and friends to not get arrested, not get away, not be arrested. And he got away until he didn't. And when he didn't and it got to be so big. Some cases are so big, you can't just turn away from and money can't buy you out of them. So he was in a situation where he was just stuck. There have been celebrities who've gone to jail before. There have been rich people also. I'm the Dupont guy, he got more money than anybody. Sometimes you can't buy your way out or not buy your way out, pay your way out. There's a difference.

Well, and you know what's interesting is some very rich people, that they just get away with it for so long and they're able to buy their way out of it. And then what do you estimate of what percentage of people that are incarcerated, were wrongfully accused, that really did.

Wrongfully accused or.

Or imprisoned or jail because they didn't.

People who didn't do it. Easily 10%, if you ask me, I'll say 10% of prison population didn't do it. Well, Dre, that seems like a high number. How do you come to that? Go to Google right now, put in wrongly convicted man released, and a thousand stories gonna pop up. A thousand stories. I'm not talking about two. I'm talking about hundreds. You just go to your Google right now, put in wrongly convicted man released, and I assure you, hundreds of stories will pop up. How. How does somebody do 30 years in jail, 20 years in jail, 40 years in jail? He never really did it. Because this is the thing at trial, is who can tell the best lie? It's not who did it. It's not about who did it. Is who can tell the best story wins. So if the DA tells a better story than a defense attorney, he wins. OJ's lawyer told a better story.

Hmm.

It's not about guilt, innocence, who tells the best story. Now, you factor in, I'm black, I got a public defender, and the jury's gonna. My jury was all white. Just so it happened. And so I. I'm. I'm. I'm swimming upstream. I'm trying to convince 12 white people that I didn't commit this crime against white people. It wasn't going well. It just wasn't going well. You know what I'm saying? So. And you get that. And the further back you go, 70s, 80s, it's getting harder to convict people of crimes they didn't commit. Now, but in the 70s and 80s, and God forbid, the 60s, being black was enough. Right?

Right.

That's it. The DA said you did it. The police said you did it. There was a time. People believe the police because they were the police. There was a time. Those days are over. But there was a time. If the police said you did it, that was enough. If a white person said you did it, that was enough. There was no more necessary to discuss a white person said he did it. We're not going to not believe this good white guy. He must have done it.

Yeah.

So.

Because people may be asking you, we haven't discussed it, why did you go to prison?

I robbed drug dealers. I actually did it. So for the record, all the crimes I was charged, what I did, I robbed drug dealers. My father was a drug dealer. My stepfather was a bank robber. So I grew up to be somebody who robbed drug Dealers. I deduced drug dealers were criminals. They had lots of cash and back. For some strange reason, people think drug dealers were tough. You stand on the corner and hand an addict a bag of dope. That doesn't make you tough. You just hand addicts dope all day long. That doesn't make you tough. So in the 80s, I used to rob drug dealers and I got caught and that's what I went to prison for.

Did you ever. Cause there's a part of it could see like, well, that could be a justification because they're drug dealers.

No, they had the money.

Did you ever rob anyone else?

I mean, I robbed a few people before them, but I finally realized it was a waste of time. They didn't have a lot of money.

Gotcha.

So you go through trial and error. You figured out, okay, you sold some stuff that didn't really. It sold well, but it still didn't make no money.

Yeah.

They're like, I'm not selling that no more.

Oh. I mean, when I was a drug addict, I was a drug dealer because that's how I basically supported my drug addiction too.

I'm talking about now since you've become turned the corner, you've run some campaigns that weren't success, that was successful, but didn't make any money. So I ran some campaigns that didn't make any money.

That's like a different version in the business. You know, in the marketing world, we call it testing. In the real world, we call it failure.

Yeah. I call it stick ups. Like, damn.

Yeah.

That's all you got? So. No, I mean, I never robbed old ladies or corner stores and stuff like that. So when I was first starting out, I went with the people who taught me, and I didn't, and they weren't making a lot of money, but they taught me the hustle. Like somebody taught you? Dan Kennedy taught you people?

Actually, Gary Halbert taught me originally. And then I met Dan Kennedy through him. Learned a lot of stuff.

The same way you learned marketing? I learned stick ups.

Yeah.

People took me out and they showed me, this is how you do this. This is how you do that. This is a skill. I'm saying it's an actual skill. How to intimidate somebody and then make you give them their money and the rest of that stuff. And once I learned this skill, I left the guys who taught me. When he did my own thing.

Right. Yep.

And then it didn't work out. It was all good until it was It. Yeah.

Well, what do you think you teach people now?

I Teach people. Now, my presence teaches you. My presence teaches you of possibility. The sheer fact that I'm standing up straight, I'm sound minded, I'm functional, I'm efficient. And forget the fact that I'm helpful and positive, the sheer fact that I'm standing with a solid mind tells you that you can be great. You say, this man grew up in a horrible situation, spent 14 years in maximum security prison. I didn't do any camps, a lot of that in solitary confinement. And now he's actually walking around here functioning at this level. It seems impossible that you could go through that level of trauma and be normal. You went through trauma, but you're sitting here and if you didn't tell somebody, they wouldn't know. If I didn't tell somebody I'd been to prison and I was a gang leader and I did all this eight, attempted murder, they would never guess. There's nothing in my. My personality projects, hostility projects, violence projects, incarceration. Because it was a mindset. I decided I wanted to be a criminal, and my mindset was that of a criminal. You decided as a young man you want to be an addict, and you live that life. And when you shut it down, I heard you say it today, you looked and you said, I'm enough. I'm not going to be shady, I'm not going to be a crook, I'm not going to be an addict. I'm going to be successful. And when you make that decision and.

You believe it, well, let me say this too, because just so in case that sounds weird to someone, I don't think I consciously said I want to be an addict. What happened is my life. Well, I view addiction as a response to pain. Like my friend Gabor Mate says, the question is not why the addiction, but why the pain? And so I had so much pain in my life that the addiction worked. I mean, it was a solution. It was a solution to pain, it was a solution to loneliness, it was a solution to not feeling okay in the world. And it wasn't a very good solution because it's a solution that can fuck up your life, that could have all kinds of negative consequences, that can put you in situations that could kill you, get you in legal trouble, a whole variety of stuff.

You had a couple keys, you'd have ran into me. If you'd have got your. If you would have got up to the point you was making some money, man, I might have to come visit you.

Good thing I did visit if you'd.

Have got up to school, believe me.

I wasn't out in the street corner handing out drugs to people. What state was that in?

Massachusetts.

Massachusetts. Okay.

I'd have popped out here in Phoenix.

I'm sure you would have.

There's a lot of people who went on the road.

I would have been a good mark for, like, back. Way back then.

Huh.

Big black guy, skinny white guy selling drugs.

It doesn't matter how size you are. Right. It's how much drugs do you got?

Yeah.

I don't care how big you are, how small you are, how much drugs you got, and how much money you making.

Well. So how'd you become the number three gang leader in prison?

The way I became the number three gang leader in prison was I hired a bunch of people, for one. But this is a kill. This is a thing that really did it. When I first got to prison, my buddy Dominic, he's the number one guy in the whole state. So I'm hanging out with Dominic every single day. I have no state. Was this Massachusetts?

Okay. Still in Massachusetts.

Still in Massachusetts. Massachusetts State Prison. Max security, MCI Walpole. I'm hanging out with Dominic. He's the guy. Top guy in the state. And I'm in his. I'm from his neighborhood, so I'm in his gang. So I'm with him every day. And this is. Dominic's the toughest guy and the leader. So all the tough guys are surrounding him. So I'm just. I'm like his. I'm like. I'm hanging out with him every day. I'm his right hand. And I would see the other tough guys that had the biggest names would come to Dominic, and they would sit and confide in him. Today's my daughter's birthday, and I don't know how to write a record. Today's the day my mom died. Today's the day it is. Today's. My dad got cancer. They would go through all of this stuff, maybe in his cell crime. Like, this is like the Mike Tyson of our prison. Crying. I'm like, what is this? And Dominic would counsel him in his way the best he could. And I learned the toughest guys had problems too. And he managed them not by hurting them or being tougher. He managed them through. Through solving their problems, healing their problems. You saying walking them through. And I saw that's how he managed everybody. They were loyal to him. Not because he was the toughest. He was the kindest. So I took his approach. When I started becoming. I hurt people too. But I was kinder than I was meaner. That I was a guy that you can come to and talk about your grandmother, your sister, your daughter or whatever the thing was. And I would help you through that. If I took the pain out of your life, whether whatever trauma you've been through, you're going through, if I can remove that from you, your loyalties unwavering because you don't want this pain back. You don't want this thing back. I just took from you. So I used to manage people through handling their trauma.

Let me ask you, when you said you hurt people, were you hurting people that were. Did you initiate it? Did you go after them?

Yeah, let's get 100%. Never once was I attacked first.

Okay, explain to me what would cause you to hurt somebody you didn't pay.

You didn't pay your bills on time in prison. In prison like you were, you see, buy some drugs enforcer from.

For someone else that asked you.

Dominic. I work for Dominic. Okay, so if you didn't pay your bills on time and you. They couldn't negotiate something, I might get the call, go see Joe. And they would say, at what level? I need to go see Joe. I would come down and meet you at the level I was sent to go meet you at. Or your gang and our gang got into a beef about something, who knows what it is? We're gonna go out to the yard and we're just gonna have it out. I'm saying maybe sometimes it's racial situations. Two guys get into it and one guy's white, one guy's black. So now all the white guys in the yard, all the black guys are in the yard. So any minute, 20 times a day, anything can erupt. But majority of the times I had to put my hands on somebody or I put a weapon to somebody, it was gang related and it was enforcement. It was not. I was never fair in my life. I'm not going to cry that it was like you disrespected, you violated, you owed and you did something shady, something, you violated a code of the prison. And since we're the code enforcers, we're going to enforce these codes.

Yeah. So today when we were in prison speaking, there was, I don't know how many were there for murder or for killing someone. I don't know. We didn't go into that with what they were there for. A couple of them shared with me what they had done and why they were there, but I didn't ask. It was very interesting because some of them were really just. If you didn't know they were in prison. And you would have met them out. You would have no idea. Just by. I could see how it's so easy for people to stereotype based on what they see in movies, what they see on tv, that sort of stuff.

Movies are fake when it comes to prison.

Super cool. Even about addiction as an example. Like, it's rare that I ever see a movie where that's depicting drug addiction that isn't glamorized or isn't, you know, a lot of bullshit. I mean, let's take sex addiction. The closest movie that probably depicts it, and it's not a. It doesn't offer a solution. It just depicts sexual addiction, which is a very misunderstood. It's an intimacy disorder, right. Is a movie called Shame. And it just shows a guy. I mean, they do a really good job. The movie Shame is really well done. But I totally. Most movies are total bullshit. So let me think. I was going to ask you when. And I asked you when we got out of prison, you know, the different levels. Minimum, medium, maximum security, when they're closed, when they can't go out.

So.

And you said, you know, it's not about what they did, it's about how many fights they get in, about how violent they are.

When you come to prison from the courthouse, you get arrested, you go to court, at some point, the court sentences you 1 year, 10 years, 20 years, whatever the time, or life in a women's prison. Since there's so few prisons, there's only one women's prison in Arizona. So it's not like you can have 20 different sections. The men's prison is probably 30 of them. So you have three supermaxes, you have three maxes, you have three mediums, women's all at one place. So they don't have the luxury of having all these extra facilities. So it's generally one level custody for the most part. It's like everything's like a medium. If you're doing life, if you're doing a year, you're probably gonna go to the medium. And when you get short, maybe a year or two less, they'll move you to the minimum to go to close custody or max. You're gonna cause problem in the prison. Very rarely, if ever will you come off the bus from the courthouse. And because of your charge, they put you in max solitary. As a woman, they're gonna put you in general population. Until you show in here, you can't be managed. So I went to prison, they put me in the medium. I got in a ton of fights. They Put me in a max. I got into a ton of stabbing situations. They put me in supermax. I got in more trouble. They put me on a bus and shipped me to the feds. So it's what you do inside, not what you do outside.

Gotcha.

Because if that was the case, everybody with murder would be in the max. If you're in there, you're minding your business and you're just chilling out, they're going to go about your business, the institution.

So you were charged with two counts of attempted murder when you were in prison?

I was convicted twice of attempted murder. Convicted. Okay. Yeah. So then what happened? They put me inside. They gave me 10 more years. They put me in solitary confinement. And this while I was in solitary, where I had sitting in a cell by myself for 24 hours looking at a brick wall, I finally realized that I was. I thought I was winning. I believed that I was winning, that I was doing something great. I convinced myself that being the top gang leader meant something. And I had this great status, and it was this mythical thing. And I just told myself all these lies, and I was believing it that one day I realized that I was lying to myself and I was the king of nowhere. And that's when I had my little awakening and said, I'm the king of nowhere and this is stupid. And I said, I want to do something different. But there was nobody around me trying to do anything different, so I had to go inside because I couldn't go outside.

Yeah, so you said earlier. Two years solitary confinement. I mean, what was the longest period of time with no sunshine or in a basement or very little.

Whatever. I mean. I mean, one. In Massachusetts, it snows. That's why you see me walking around out here in the T shirt. You're like, what's wrong with you? Because this. This is not weather me. So from October to April, I stayed in my cell because I'm not going out in three feet of snow. I'm just not doing it. That's for one. And then probably just from God's being mad at me or me doing stuff, they locked me myself. Probably like 15, 18 days. They would just close your door. I've had them times. They just decided not to feed me. But it was never based on just picking my name out. I was a problem child, so I got problems thrown back at me. So I don't want to be like, oh, I mean, I kicked up dirt and you kicked dirt on people. They kick some back. I'm saying I've never been believer of Just because they're gods, that they're not people. If you talk about my mother, I'm gonna jump on you. But because they're a God and I talk about their mother, they can't jump on me. So they, they get passive aggressive or they get you on other people means they're people. I'm saying I've never met so many people who expected higher from people who've never given higher themselves.

Yeah.

So I don't think you can be higher than who you are when I'm not.

You were talking about Dominic and he would cry.

No, no. People would come to him and they would have issues and they would cry.

Yeah.

And it's like, these are the toughest dudes in the prison. These aren't just regular guys. These are like the toughest guys in the prison who walk around the biggest names and they would all come to him because he was a top guy. And they, if they had, they would be crying and they'd be boohooing. They'd be all this. I'm like, what is this? And I saw that everybody had pain. And managing pain was the best way to move.

You know what's interesting because let me relate it into therapy, which I've done a lot of men's groups, couples groups that I've sat in a lot, some that I've been in the groups, others that I have been assisting with and many 12 step meetings. And you know, I've been part of high profile groups where academy award winning actors and actresses, famous musicians, politicians, clergy, NBA players, NFL players.

I just got FBI most wanted list.

What's that?

I got the FBI most wanted list.

You were on there.

No, I got those. That's who I do groups with.

Oh, gotcha.

Yeah.

And you know, I've been in rooms with people that the world admires and that are billionaires and that have in some cases thousands of employees, highly influential and seen them just in the most broken states. And it gives you a perspective that if you've not been in those positions, and this was going back over 20 years ago when I first started doing that, and it gave me a whole other perspective of man, just because you're successful and the world admires you, it's similar to what you're saying about all these white kids. Don't have any problems. I mean, everybody has freaking problems at every socioeconomic level. Doesn't matter your fame. And in many cases, a lot of people rose to those heights because of the pain and adversity. And they somehow put that effort Yeah, I mean, if you read like Elon Musk's latest book, the Walter Isaacson one, where he had a shitty ass childhood, his father was. If what is written is accurate, it's, you know, can be pretty despicable and, you know, getting the shit beat out of them, you know, of course, you know, Elon is driven through pain and adversity and, you know, is super intense. I mean, it goes back to what, you know. Our Genius Network member Dr. Don Wood says, you know, if you understood the atmospheric conditions of somebody's life, it makes sense why they do what it is they do. And that's what we talked today to the women prisoners about. If you, you know, all of you, that atmospheric conditions in your life that, me, you, all of you that ended up, it would make sense why we're at where we're at in our lives. And as an adult, I believe you can change the atmospheric conditions. And I think if you do, you can alter the atmospheric conditions of your family, your community, people that you influence, that sort of thing. So did you, did you ever break down and lose it in prison or did you somehow compartmentalize it where you were always like this tough guy, where you just never felt such immense sadness or whatever that it would cause you to break down? Maybe, you know, I think violence and rage is often another form of expression. You know, we're all expressing ourselves. It's just different. People do it in different ways. So how did you.

The first time I cried in prison, I was in solitary confinement and my sister called me. I called my sister, she said, go get the paper and read the obituaries. I'm like, why? She said, get the paper and read the obituaries. So I go get the paper, I read the obituaries and my best friend from childhood died. He had a drug overdose and he died. And we used to. This is my third grade, second grade. Little kids playing in the dirt. That was my guy and him dying. I cried on myself. I'm glad I was in solitary confinement. Nobody could see me. That was my best friend. And the second time was I called home and I got some news about a relative who's using drugs. And. And I was like, nah. So I called another relative and they confirmed it and it just crushed me. I'm saying, because this is the person that was like my primary mental go to, I'm saying in my mind, as long as this person's strong, I'm strong. And when that person was perceived shown to be weak to drugs, I can't call you I can't even think that I can call you. The thought of being able to call you gives me the strength to keep going, even if I never call you. But if I know that you're so messed up that I can't call you, then I don't have you to lean on, even mentally. So my one mental crutch was gone. I went back to my son. I cried, and it hurt that not just my people are going through stuff, but that was my crutch. That was my mental anchor, and it was gone, and my best friend gone. And it's just. Those are the two times I cried in jail.

When you were in your worst state, were you kind of hopeless or you just didn't give a shit? I mean, how.

I didn't care. I didn't know enough to be hopeless, you know what I'm saying? Because I thought I had purpose. I thought doing what I was doing was purposeful. I'm gonna be the top ranking gang member in this state. And we have entrepreneurs who. I'm saying that they think what they're doing is purposeful. They're neglecting their families. They're neglecting their wives and neglecting the neighborhood. They're neglecting community. They're just so driven that they don't realize the damage they're causing. And most of the damage I was doing was to myself. I'm saying, because I'm denying I could have been home. I could have been doing a thousand other things other than riding away in jail, fighting with a bunch of other people, or rotting away in jail. And that's what that was. I was as much harm as I did to other people. Ten times to myself. But once I got my life together, that's why I tell the ladies when I go in, all the men, the more you've been through, the more you can help somebody get through.

Yeah.

So I'm able to. Like I said, my presence projects success, projects hope. So when they see me walk in, they know my story. I'm saying they know my. They know my stripe, my trials, my tribulations. When I just walk in standing upright, they're like, we can stand up, too. Because he's been through far more than we have. And if he's made it and he's come back in here, then we can do something similar, if not greater.

Yeah. So you, early on, had serious anger issues.

Super anger. I watched my mother get beat for years. So if my mother can get beat, anybody can get beat again. That's the atmosphere, conditions. There's nothing Bigger in my life than my mom. And I watched my mom get beat by my father for years. So to me, there's nobody on this planet that's off limits for violence. Nobody. And it wasn't. And that's just. This is my communication style. Thanks, dad. This is how you communicate. Punch him in the face. If you can punch somebody that we love and you love to that extent that hard, we're not gonna do it. A stranger, opposing gang member. Right. Prison. God. I'm saying there's no. There's no limits when it comes to violence. When my first level of violence is watch my mother get it. So you couldn't tell me there's levels to this? There's no level. And if you got in the way. I didn't understand levels of violence because I witnessed the worst thing you could ever watch. The woman who brought you a get beat.

Yeah. Can I talk about your mom for a minute?

Is that okay? Sure.

So you're at the time we're doing this right now, tonight. You're taking a overnight flight across the country. Your mother's funeral is tomorrow.

My mother's funeral is tomorrow? Yes.

And you know, you went to prison today, and you're talking to a group of women because you said you'd come back the day before your mother's funeral. Do you have sadness with this? How do you process it? Because you don't strike me as someone that feels super comfortable with. And you're always putting yourself in a position, helping people. I see people cry around you all the time. I see you constantly taking care of people. What do you do when you're going through grief, you're going through sadness. How do you process it?

Now, when the call came in that my mother. This is back in May, the call came in. She was on a ventilator. We didn't know if she was ever gonna wake up. All the kids shoot to Virginia to see mom, and she comes out of the coma or whatever she was in, and she's awake and she's sitting with us one at a time. And when I sat with her, she kind of said, like, why are you here? I'm like, your mom. I mean, you're kind of like, touch and go. I mean, how am I not gonna be here? And she said, you help people. I said, I'm here for you, though. She said, if you're here, what I want, what makes me happy as a mom, is that you're out there helping people. Because for so many years, I couldn't say your name with respect. For so many years, I couldn't hold you up in high esteem because you was out in the street or you was in prison acting crazy. But for the last 24 years of my life, you've brought me nothing but joy. Helping people. When people ask me, where's my son? Oh, he's out in Arizona talking to businessmen about addiction. Where's my son? Oh, he's in Kenya helping people build wells. Or, where's my son? Or he's down in Miami helping him, saying, ladies, get out of human trafficking. Or, where's my son? Oh, he's at his office at Harvard. He's at the law school, teaching. Oh, where's my son? Or he was just with the United nations or the prime minister, trying to make a difference. And if you ask and she doesn't know, she said, I don't know where he is, but I can guarantee you he's someplace doing something good. And that was our thing. That my life testimony was to her. And that's what made her smile about me. I got other siblings. I don't know what they smiled about for them. She was proudest of me when I was on stage, whether it was in front of a group of entrepreneurs or a group of women in prison, group of kids in Guatemala, she just wants to know. She used to call me, like, what part of the world you in today? That was her saying, I'm like, mom in Phoenix, Arizona, where you @ today? I'm in Liberia. I'm saying, I'm in Monrovia, Liberia. I'm in Stockholm, Sweden. I'm in Germany, and I'm helping somebody. I wake up every single day, I say, who can I help today? That's the first thing I say when I wake up. Who can I help today? And I can honestly say we helped over 60 women today. Over 100. Because we did. Two groups. Over 100 women today, minimally were impacted. Not about the other calls we made. Minimally 100 people today. And that's what makes my mother happy. That's what makes her smile, and that's what makes her smile down on me. So she's like, go, do what you do. On her birthday last year, she got sick. May 14, June 1, on her birthday, I was standing in The Men's Prison, L.A. speaking, helping people, and that's what makes her happy. Me sit at the foot of her bed crying. She's like, dude, you weren't raised like that. You're not that type of guy. You ain't built like that. So don't try to be That I got kids, we got brothers and sisters who do that. I got a brother who sit there and cry all day, might jump in the grave. He might jump in the casket. I'm saying, if my brother jumped in the casket, nobody'd be shocked. Andre's the guy that forges away. My mother would tell you if you caught her and said, hey, the prison blew up. There's a massive riot. 800 people got killed, and 10 people are in court, in jail. She's going to the jail. She's like, my boy, he ain't gonna go down. He ain't gonna go down. My mom was old school, and she just loved the fact that I help people. And I'm gonna, for the rest of my days, help people.

So. All right, let me, let me. Cause I'm really thinking about this. I mean, at this moment, I'm almost thinking what an interesting question to ask people. What makes you think sad? What makes you cry? How do you process.

Grief? What makes me sad is when I can't help somebody. When people call me after the fact. I've gotten calls after the fact, after someone's od, after somebody's od, after somebody died, after somebody went off the cliff. Then I find out I had a friend call me a couple months ago. His son's been in jail for four years. But because whatever reason, he was embarrassed. He's. He's a super rich guy. He didn't call me. I'm like, dude, why didn't you call me? I've had multiple people let their shame or their ego or whatever it is not let them call me. I'm like, dude, we're friends. That hurt me that he didn't call me because I can help and he know I could help. He's known me for help. He's brought me to his city to help people. But it was his kid. He suffered in silence. And for me, that's what hurts me, that my friend suffered in.

Silence. Yeah, I mean, I think where we have a lot of alignment is we're constantly trying to reduce human suffering. I don't often know where that comes from, like what creates empathy and what doesn't. I mean, there's people that have the ability to, you know, express empathy and do things that at levels that it's even hard for me to comprehend because I'm always thinking I'm trying to help people. And I'll meet people like, my God, what you give to the world. And I know we have saved quite a few lives together through Genius Network. I mean, I don't know any other entrepreneurial group that has on their team, if anyone's going through.

Challenges. Crisis.

Manager. Yeah. That you will hop on a plane, you will talk to them. And so, I mean, you know, I've had quite a few genius network members that have been like, yep, Andre, help save my friend or my child or my brother or my sister's life because of what we do. And the thing with, you know, who helps the helpers, right? And that's really what.

I. You helped me, and you know who I was and when I needed help. John Roland helped me. Mike Brunoff helped me. People helped me. Keith Alpert helped me. Dave Spence helped me. Rusty Keeley. I can give you a list of people who helped me. I'm saying my guy Simon in Jersey helped me. I mean, it's different ways in different spaces, right? But people say, well, you don't seem super remorseful. You seem like, super. Like you live in this space. I live my life every single day to show that I deserve an opportunity to be free. I live my life every single day to show that I'm a worthy human and that I deserve grace because I don't scream, hallelujah. Fall on the floor, and I don't smile and cotwheel and shit. Don't get me confused. I'm saying I'm not the super playful guy. I'm gonna get up. I'm gonna help you. I'm gonna show up. No blink. I don't care if I gotta walk, crawl, or fly. I'm gonna get there. But how come he's not smiling more? Come on. Really? Does it matter? You want me to smile more? How about I just get your kids into treatment, or I'll put your husband in treatment. I get your kid out of jail or whatever. Let me do what I do. Stop trying to tell me how to be. Yeah, people try to tell me, well, you should do it, like, if you did this more, or you put on a pink shirt instead of a black shirt. Let me be.

Me. People do that shit to me all the time.

Too. Why I gotta be. What the fuck you want? Why can't I just be me and come help your ass? Yeah, stop judging what I got on. Just let me come be me. Right? And that's. That's. That's. He doesn't smile enough. I had one lady say, well, he didn't say hallelujah enough. So I don't want him over here. I'm like, what's hallelujah? You got to do it. You got gang Members out front shooting up your neighborhood. Let me go talk to them. Let me go talk to them and get them to not shoot your neighborhood up, and that's that. Yeah, but why can't you do it like this? You can't micromanage this, right? Some things you can micromanage. When I go into the penitentiaries and I go into the streets at night in these alleys, I got to be me. Because those people are hyenas. And this. They sniffing. If they smell weakness or they smell that, that's on you. On me, I'm done. I can't do it. I got. I still got to be me. Because I deal with hyenas, lions, tigers, and bears every single day. If I don't project to be or be one of them, I ain't gonna last, Right? So I gotta maintain my edge. So don't make me smack.

You. So. So here. So after today. So it's funny because we're gonna keep going back to the. Not just the women's prison, but other prisons. And I find it really beneficial whenever. You know, I always tell people, if you think your life sucks, put yourself in a situation just to be helpful to other people. I think it's one of the reasons 12 steps work real well is if you can walk into a room feeling hopeless, and there's someone there that believes in you. Oftentimes when you don't or can't believe in yourself for whatever reason, and they encourage you and they give you some perspective, or they even just sit with you and be present. Because if you've ever sat next to someone that's dying and they're not going to get better, they are dying. The presence of just being with them is oftentimes the best you can do. And a lot of them know that. And so if you ever think your life sucks, and the way I say this, because when my life has sucked, if I can create the wherewithal to just go and try to be helpful to someone whose life sucks more than mine or is in just a different arena of sucking, all of a sudden, I start feeling better. I mean, there's something counterintuitive and fascinating about being of service to other people. And when you feel like, you know, I do believe the title of one of my books is Life Gives to the giver, which is thejoesfreebook.com, i have to put that in as a.

Plug. Joesfreebook.com Life gives to the Giver. Get it now or.

Else. Yeah, or else he's going to suck terribly. So life gives the giver, and it takes from the taker. And one of the things is when you feel you've got nothing else to give but you give, it replenishes you with the caveat that you do it in a way that gives back to you. It doesn't drain you. Right. And oftentimes it may feel like you're. If you're starving and you give away your last.

Dollar, that's a little bit.

Much.

Yeah. Self preservation kicks.

In. Yeah, exactly. So I'm not suggesting being stupid about it. In the same way that today I was talking, there were several of the women there that were, like, deathly afraid of public speaking. And what did we do? We had them come up and speak, and all of them did a great job. And man, what that did for their. And say, we're going to keep doing this, though. This is just the start. So I said, do something every day that scares you, which is different than, you know, I would say run out in front of traffic. And that's stupid. So there's a lot of things that people hear from motivational speakers or authors or people that are, you know, telling them to go challenge themselves, that, you know, they're just not in the right place to be. You know, they're being reckless. They're being, you know, they're not being very thoughtful about it. However, when it comes to giving, there's a lot of pain in the world. And one of the things I say all the time is be a pain detector. You know, find the pain and go and help reduce human suffering. And from a business standpoint, solving problems for a profit is the way that most businesses make money. And there's a lot of problems out there, and there's a lot of pain out there. And if you can solve those, that's very powerful. So what I wanted this conversation to be with you here today is a starting point. This is going to be one of many conversations, I believe, unless we decide later that was a waste of.

Time. We shouldn't have done this. Never.

That.

Yeah. But, you know, we got here. You know, the one question that got us here? When Michael Bernhoff said, I can't meet with you, I could have said, cool, I got five other people to meet with. I said, is there anybody I can help? That's how we tied.

In.

Yeah. Give with no expectation. Be who you're supposed to be all the time, and don't try to pretend this be.

You.

Yeah. And that's where we came from. Is there anybody else I Can.

Help. Yep.

Totally. And now we get to help people together. You did phenomenal in jail today, by the way. You keep saying we spoke. We didn't speak. You spoke. I spoke a little bit.

Yeah. I was speaking for a long time, and I had no idea what the hell I was going to talk. It was interesting, though. You know what, though? It was. It's. Yeah. I mean, that's also putting myself in a. You know, because for a while I was like, what am I going to possibly say to some of these people that.

Are. I set the tables up, make it look like Genius Network, and you kick right in. You just need.

Some. I'll share one of the things we talked about. So a couple things. So Andre wanted me to do some of the tools that we do in our Genius Network group and in our 100k group. And so I did a shortened version because we didn't have the actual tools there. We were able to. Some of them had notes, but then we're able to get little pencils and to hand out pieces of paper to everyone. So I had them write down three things because I have a tool in Genius Network, which are the 10 coolest things about me, which is not about me, but about the people that are filling out the tool. What I do is I've had people that are multimillionaires that will sit there and have a hard time thinking anything highly of themselves because they are so immersed in working. One of the things we do in Genius Network is have people look at their obsessive workaholism, the respectable addiction workaholism. One of the things that I have them do is identify what's cool about them to help get them in touch with. They do cool shit. They speak different languages. So I had the women do that. And one woman was an equestrian trainer. One woman spoke four languages. Singing, dancing. We heard a lot of different things of talents and things that they know how to do. Creating art, encouraging people, like, all kinds of different stuff. And then I had them do a hot seat. Had them do a hot seat. And then I had them identify a problem, challenge, or opportunity, and then get in groups of three and then have a dialogue. And, man, there were women that have been there for years that have never talked to other people, didn't know things about them, and we had all of them talking. And I was like, oh, wow, this is. And the thing that I think I enjoyed the most was for one, it always is a perspective shift. I have a great therapist who writes the blog at Genius Recovery. GeniusRecovery.org, which is our addiction recovery foundation. And it's an educational platform and it's not written by AI. This is a world class therapist, Ken Wells, that writes twice a week. He writes it. New blog, Amazing. And he wrote a book called Dare to be Average, which is, you know, I told him it's not a great marketing title, but it's an amazing book. And he is a very busy therapist, much demanded. He's in his 70s now. Amazing. Been doing it for years, great reputation, has helped so many people. And he'll go volunteer in a prison, has done it many times for sex offenders. And just to, you know. And I'd be like, why do you do that? And he's like, well, you can see yourself in other people. If things got so bad, where would you go? What would you do? And he doesn't get paid for it, right? And he does it just. And a lot of people would misunderstand that and they would have judgments about it. But do they do it? Have they ever tried it? Have they ever gone and put themselves in those sort of positions? And so for me it was great perspective. But the other is, man, it just feels good to freaking help people. And it, and it's, you know, and I have the ability to do it. Some people in their lives, they might not have the time. They might have the ability. They may, you know, and of course I know.

You. The thing I actually, that's why I actually give them the 100k lessons. Because so often, if not always, people in prison get trash. The trash training, the trash, they don't get the best of. The Genius Network is a premier mastermind group on the planet. I'm saying you're the most connected being on the planet. You're one of the top minds in this space. They don't see that, we don't see that. When I sat in prison, we get somebody come from the church, they want to say hallelujah or pray for us. That's cool that you praying for me. But I need real functional application that I can live and grow my life on. So I'm like, give them the best and sometimes you're gonna get the best. And people, you. I work for you now. Chief of Staff. Where did I come from? I came from there. So imagine if I'd have had the level of information that's available now that you're giving for me for 14 years. I'd be a monster. I'm saying, so I had a.

CEO tell me one time, monster in a good way.

Monster. In a good way. Sometime the worst. The worst can be the best if you just give them a chance. And he needs to add in the best information. If we keep sending trash information into people who need it the most, needed the most, what can we expect? If you give somebody some. Some low level stuff, but a low level response, you give those folks $100,000 trainings and concepts and they're gonna respond, they're gonna eat it up. They all sat. It wasn't one outburst, not one problem, not one. Nobody yelling. You had a ton of people, never more meds. Nobody flipped out, nobody spazzed out. They are hungry for real.

Information.

Yeah. And that's what you brought them today and you blessed.

Them. Yeah. It was good. And because of you having being in charge of getting content on 650,000 tablets, that is their communication, access to the world. And we talked to them. You can watch movies, you can look at games, TV.

Shows. They want content. They want. If Cameron Herrera got on, sent a training for the ladies and the guys in jail. Joe. Peggy. Is it Peggy? Jenny.

Jenny. Jenny and.

Joel. Jenny and Joel sent content. If you want to bless somebody in jail but you don't want to go, they can just send the content and we will put it on the tablets and we'll make it available for them for.

Free. Yeah. And it's great because now we're able to give people that are incarcerated the ability to learn stuff and redirect their lives so that when they get out, they're contributing. And we talked about value creation, we talked about ethics, we talked about make sure that your give is equal to or greater than your want. Because everybody wants something and they ate it up and they were appreciative of it. And there are a lot of people that are not in those situations that they don't have the contrast. They don't have the comparison. So I think it was awesome. So with what do we need? What else do we need to share today? Because this.

Is. This is just where there. So, ladies and gentlemen, this is Joe Polish and Andre Norman coming to you live. Genius Network 2024. There is no other. There's no altitude. There's no substitute. There's no side chicks. There's none of that. There's only one. The leader, the king, the prince. It is what it is, I'm saying. So, ladies and gentlemen, tune in because we'll be back. And. Well, this doesn't fit me. Well, this isn't that. We know that you're smart. And if you're smart as we think you are. You can draw the lines between what we said and who you are, what you're going through. And then you can level up and make your life.

Better.

Awesome. So, on behalf of Genius Network, Mr. Joe Polish, senor Andre Norman, we will see you again next.

Week. What he said. Peace.

Out.

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