Todd Herman: Why It’s So Hard to Shift Your Identity

I think a lot of that changes because, you know, it's like Michael Singer in the Untethered Soul, you know, to thy own self be true. He opens up the book talking about that goes, well, what self are we talking about? The scared one, the insecure one, the confident one? I mean, we.

The dad self? The entrepreneurial self, the CEO self? The athlete self? The which self? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know.

There'S.

There's many reasons why I. I really like you, and one of them is that you're. You're very much a protector of your people. And when I first started doing building the peak athlete back in 1997, and I'm totally an accidental entrepreneur, and I like saying that to people because I think there's a lot of stories out there that. That someone was so deliberate and so focused, and they grew and they scaled this business and they got into it, and I was. It was accidental. It happened on a football field because I got done playing college football, and I was volunteering at a high school in Edmonton, Alberta, where I lived at the time, and I was working with the defensive backs, and I was just really good at teaching them the mental game stuff more than anything because I played college football. I was a nationally ranked badminton player, but I'm not physically gifted. I'm not 64 and 245 pounds of solid muscle or something.

Right.

And I had two older brothers who, you know, helped me develop my mental toughness as any older brothers do. And so these kids started getting some really good results, not just on the field, but actually in the classroom, because I was actually teaching them a little bit about how their brain worked for as much information was available back then. And a mom, Deb, said, hey, Kirby's getting such great results. Would you mind mentoring him more or coaching him more? And I was like, yeah, sure, love to.

And.

And there was this long pause, and she, like, leans in and she's like, how much do you want to charge, Todd? And I said, how about 75 bucks for a package of three sessions? And she was like. And I was, like, vomiting in my mouth when I was saying, because who's going to pay me that much just to, like, you know, talk to a kid and teach him some stuff? And she's like, done. And so that was my rate for the first three years was like, I was super cheap, but it got me a lot of reps, right? And so I say that because when I started out, I was now trying to learn as much as I could about the inner game of things and typically that would lead you to like, psychology books. And I just was like, I'm a practical guy. Like, I grew up on a farm and ranch. You know, if my dad ever found an idea that was like crap, he would say, you know, well, that dog won't hunt, you know, and. And so I started diving into like, other things like biology and kinesiology and all these other disciplines, and I started making way more sense of this world of human performance. And I say that because one of the key platforms of the world of psychology back then was that people who had oneself had the lowest rates of depression or depressive or anxiety disorders. Well, that didn't make any sense to me because here I have got clients and I'm like, we don't want that guy who's out there playing football, coming off the field and acting that way in society.

Right.

That's a different self.

Yeah.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Of course. That makes sense. He's using a specific set of qualities and attributes to go out there and help him perform. So I was like, well, that's a good example of how the rule of psychology is full of crap.

Yeah.

And so then in 2007, basically the psychology world had a complete flip on really three of their core founding principles about how human beings operate. And one of them is that now one of the largest fields of study for the world of psychology is many selves. Is that humans who actually operate through and see themselves, see themselves as having many sides of who they are actually have the lowest rates of anxiety and stress disorder. And the reason I say that is because so many people nowadays get caught up in the social media vernacular of authenticity and authentic self thinking that there's one you and there is nothing. Yeah. Because if they're, if we learn anything from the universe is we're energy.

Right.

So at our core, we're really energy. And then we transmute that energy through the roles that we play. And so really the message in my book is more about using our creative imagination to intentionally bring forward who it is that you want to bring to these different roles that you have in your life so that you can perform the way that you want to perform.

Yeah.

And perform isn't in a fake way. It's like, because performance at the end of the day is just your ability to get results. So anyways, and I. The reason I brought all that up is because you're very similar when it comes to marketing principles. You like to poke holes in things and, you know, point people in the right direction. Towards what actually is going to work for them.

Yeah, just trying to be useful and trying to help. You know, I, I mean, I like the idea of a result leader is far more valuable than a thought leader because any idiot could come up with thoughts or many people.

Damn it. Now I got to change the head title on my, on my, on my about page. Remove thought leader 18. If you're listen. Listening. Remove Thought Leader immediately.

Well, you know, there, there are thought.

Leaders and I understand, you know, the, the way people describe it, but there's a lot of thought leaders that steal their thoughts from other people. And, and what, what you're, you're saying makes me think of. So in what's in it for them? My book, my latest book. I, I talk about their situational behavior, and then there's situational ethics. Situational behavior changes. Like we can, you know, I'll tell a dirty joke to you, maybe here, maybe live or maybe. But if you introduce me to your grandma, I'm not going to say the same joke, but I'm not going to.

She would love it, though.

She probably would.

Yeah, she would have loved it.

But the point is, one of the things I talk about, most people have, not everyone, but most people have drank beer. Most people have gone to church. But you rarely drink beer in church. Some people probably do, but there's situational behavior, but there's situational ethics. And me and you have had lots of conversations about ip. And what I really like about you, since we're both here edifying each other, is that you very much respect ip, you very much respect. You know, and we live in a world of authors and speakers in creators.

Yeah.

Creator economy of taking other people's stuff and making yourself look really smart.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's annoying. You know, there's Zig Ziglar who has said, you know, some great things. I mean, I remember sitting on a couch with Zig in the early 90s for an hour while he was speaking at this big event. And we were backstage and I literally spent an hour talking to Zig Ziglar. And then I sat through a hour and a half presentation of an infomercial company sitting down there pitching him. And Zig kept saying to me, what do you think?

What do you think?

And I was like this young guy just early in the marketing. And so Zig, great speaker. And he had a line where he said, you can get anything you want in life if you help enough other people get what they want. The challenge though is that's not always true. It depends on who you help get what they want, because you can help other people get what they want. That some will not do a damn thing for you and others will lie to you, abuse you, steal from you, betray you. And that's one of the things difficulties of if you're a giver and if you go out there trying to just be helpful to people is you have to boundary yourself. And unfortunately we usually don't learn how to boundary ourselves until you get taken advantage. And so I try to warn people that if you're going to be a giver, just know that it comes with the territory. You become a target for takers because the narcissists, the sociopaths, the psychopaths, you know, the takers of the world, they have an ability to sense and identify who they can get something from and they can mirror empathy, even though they may not have any real empathy. And so it's interesting. So we've had conversations about that. So as it relates to the alter ego, then let's talk about all the stuff that you help people with imposter syndrome. How do they view themselves? What their identity? I mean, there's many places we can start. I don't think there's one right place to start, but let's first let's get to the definition. What does alter mean? What does ego mean? What is an alter ego? And then we'll talk about. Because my goal for today, is anyone watching or listening, is that you get a domino from this. You get some perspective and some insight that really gives you a way to improve your life. And that may be your business, that may be your family, that may be your health. There's a lot of stuff and you're really skilled and that's what you help people do.

Well, I mean, to kick off too, I always say, does everyone need an alter ego? No, they don't. But what I do know is that with all of the most successful people that I've been around, or even reflecting on my own life, the more valuable tools that you have in your tool belt that you can grab and pull out when you need to, you're going to be able to skate through life and over challenges or friction a lot more quickly or more gracefully than, than others who get caught up in something. And so I think that the method itself and using alter egos or identity to chunk it up to another level is a really powerful tool that someone can utilize. So going back to your first question, alter ego, it was actually coined in 44 BC by Cicero, and Cicero is kind of widely regarded as the greatest Roman statesman and philosopher to ever live. And a friend of his had basically sent him a letter asking him about advice on life now that he's this seasoned professional. And while he was going on this one caravan, he replied. And he in it, he coined the alter ego term, and it means the other eye, or trusted friend within. And he basically is unpacking how throughout his life he's had to reinvent himself. And he would use basically the quote from Epictetus, who said, adopting the manners and characteristics of others, there's nothing false in it. We all need a point of reference to start with. And so adopting those manners from others and borrowing their traits as your own only helps you to develop the vision of what you're trying to become. Basically breaking up his quote in some way. So that's useful to think about because you especially Joe, you know, with the Genius Network, and I was speaking about you with someone last night, and they were saying, just as I would, that you truly do have one of the greatest Rolodexes. That's out there, to use an old term for people. But. And when I say greatest Rolodexes, it's not just the quantity of people in it, it's the quantity of people who have deep affection for you that are also in that. And that's extraordinarily difficult to reach. So you're doing a lot of things right. You should probably write a book on it. Oh, wait, you did. So we all know the power of having great people around us. Great friends, great peers, great coaches or mentors, great people to mastermind with or network with. But we don't think about necessarily how can we bring that tribe of friends and mentors into our own minds and the six inches in between. And so that's really what Cicero was saying. It's the other I, your trusted friend within. And I would carry it a step further, it's the trusted friends within. So that's the kind of base concept that's there. The other principles that kind of I talk about that I discovered in building the alter egos and the secret identities of so many athletes or leaders, is that one of the core things that makes it work so well is that it brings an attitude of playfulness to it. And I'll just share a little bit of science. From the ages of 6 and a half months, or 6 months to 7 years of age roughly, in a child, they are basically operating in the theta brainwave state. Okay, this is all stuff that you would know a lot. You know, you have Beta, you got Alpha, then you got theta. Beta is like our waking mind. It's the awareness mind. Alpha is like, you know, some deep, deeper focus that you've got working on a task or something. And then theta is really deep, deep, deep creative focus. And it's where the zone and flow state typically sits as well. So you've got children that are in the zone and flow state most of the time. And that's what you know to the parent that's listening, you know, that's why when you yell, hey, suppertime. And they can't, you don't come. And you're nine times you've yelled it and they still don't come. It's because literally they're just so caught up in the play, in the process of what they're doing because their brainwave state is in theta.

Well, why is that?

Well, that's because unlike a baby elephant who needs to get up and fend for itself immediately in the savannah, human beings don't. And we've got a lot to learn. So we're like little sponges at that age. We're just soaking everything up. There's no concept of me and myself and my identity at that age.

Right?

Because there is no me. It's just I'm a part of this family or, you know, like everything is mine or whatever.

Doing your thing.

And so because they don't have an identity, they're able to shape shift. So well, they're playing nurse, one second teacher, jumping off the couch as Superman or Wonder Woman or Batman or Thor or whatever, going out front to play with as their favorite basketball player or football player or whatever. They're just adopting these traits. And it's because everything in the world is big. I'm not as tall as you, Joe, and so I want to be big like you.

Hey, I hope you're enjoying this video. And I want to let you know.

That I have a new book that's come out and if you'd like to get it absolutely free, there's a link below in the description. Or you can wait till the end of this video or you can Simply go to joesfreebook.com and you can get a copy there.

And then at the age of seven and a half or eight years of age, depending on gender, then you're all of a sudden, frontal lobe starts to kick in, reasoning skills, you wait, there's me. And I'm separate from these people. So you start to develop this sense of an identity. And you start to think, I want to be more like the 12 year old. And you start acting like the 12 year old and you start leaving behind all this creative, playful self. And that's the thing I love about you. Even inside of your office here, there's so much, you know, well, crazy shit. Really?

Yeah. I want to see how you describe all this.

I'm not going to pull any punches. There's a ton of crazy. You got a very unique set of art curation that you've got. But it's beautiful that way. So I say all that because a grounding principle that makes this work so well is it when you're really playful, it removes ego from the process. And when I can remove ego from part of this process of helping an athlete perform or a leader or a CEO, entrepreneur, dad, mom, whatever, they can fall into and find more of their capabilities and traits and perform up to whatever is nested with inside of themselves.

So, you know.

Yeah, that's very interesting. So do you, do you find yourself dismantling? Maybe that's the wrong word. But you're certainly taking a look at their identity and how they behave and you're giving them another perspective and you're giving them a methodology to step out of themselves if they become so damn serious. Because like you write about, you write about this in your book. You know, people lose the playfulness of being a kid and there are the few individuals that become, you know, more playful and they become more engaged in life. And that to me is such an important thing to offer that. And I think that's what your methodology actually provides.

Yeah.

Is it gives people like, man, you're stuck. You can be very financially successful and hate your life.

Yes.

And that, and you could be, you know, if you're starving and have no means, that's a whole nother situation.

Exactly.

You know, human happiness has very little to do with the external. It has to do with the internal. Unless the external is you're in a war torn country or you know, you're just in constant, you know, fight or flight. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. So, okay, so do I find people and dismantle that current identity so that we can rebuild the new identity? There's a danger in that for me because I am not a therapist. Right. Like, and this is what we see nowadays is, listen, I don't try to solve all your problems. Right. I'm wholly unskilled at that. I'm very good at helping people move forward. And do you know the performance coaching that we do and using the methods. But the nature of navigating between the 6 inches of people's ears for 27 years is sometimes you poke a sore spot and there's a trauma that's there. And while in that moment I'll let them share whatever, I'll always point them in the direction of what is, you know, five incredibly world class experts on treating trauma or depression or whatever it might be there. But at the same time, none of my clients are able to move themselves to the sidelines for the next three years and get themselves fixed. Like they still have to go and do their thing. So if that's the case, how about I give you some tools to help you navigate this with less stress, less anxiety and let me help you disassociate from the current story that you've got about what you think you can or cannot do, or let me disassociate away from the way that you think you need to be doing this. No, Todd, the way that I get results is I am a hard charger. This is the way that I work. Or I found over the years that many of my athletes especially found that they would actually not get treatment on some of their, you know, past issues because they felt like that was what was gave them their edge. They don't want to lose their edge. If I, Todd, if I give this thing up, then am I really going to be able to go out there and kill it on that court or crush it on that field or something like that? And I'm like, yeah, you 100% can, because it's not removing your capability.

Yeah.

There is a famous, it reminds me a famous philosopher, I can't remember his name, he said something along the lines of, the last thing that a human ever gives up is their suffering. And a lot of people, I think that hold to like, I don't want to lose the edge or what. It's almost like a drug addict that'll be like, yeah, I make great music when I'm, you know, because if they get sober, their music is going to suck. Not always.

Yeah, yeah, well. And Alfred Adler, one of the founders of basically the world of psychology, his frame on the human experience is always, we're doing everything because it helps us achieve a goal, whether it's a negative one or there's something that's there that you are. It's helping you achieve some sort of goal. And people are like, I don't want the goals or I don't want this world. And I'm like, no, it's most likely there's some sort of goal that it is accomplishing for you, whether it's the attention that you would get from it or, you know, you re experiencing the pain because you associate yourself as having someone who's just, I live a pained life, you know. Right.

Well, you know my friend Anna Lemke, who wrote, you know, Dr. Anna Lemke, dopamine Nation.

Yeah.

She writes about, you know, S and M and bondage, and she writes about pain. And there is a dopamine hit that comes from pain. And so everything is, you know, people. What humans want is they want more woo or less.

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So.

And sometimes the woo comes through doing exciting, healthy things. Other times the woo comes from consuming sugar, taking drugs, you know, having sex, watching porn, you know, and there's consequences to all the different ways we get woo. And ah, yeah. I get cold plunges almost daily. And because when I get out, I feel better, but getting in is like, ah, yeah. But the woo that comes out of it sure is worth doing.

Yeah.

And so the challenge is, is when the. You know, you have a pained existence, but your patterns, your reward system, your identity is attached to that. And so. Yeah. And I mean, because I.

How.

How would you.

How would you describe the learning? Because one of the things I say, and this is my interpretation of it through having been in recovery for two decades from drug addiction, sex addiction, workaholism, is that unlearning is more important than learning. Because I'm constantly trying to learn stuff, and at the same time, I'm trying to unlearn things that my brain has convinced me this is the right way to say things, this is the right way to think about stuff when, no, that actually isn't serving me. And that's not really helpful at all.

Yeah.

And how would you look at unlearning versus learning?

So, like, my frame for my world is peak performance is more a process of subtraction, removal and deletion. Right. So, like, someone comes to me and they say, okay, well, that's where I want to go. I want to climb that mountain or I want to get up that hill, or that's my next hurdle to go over top of. And then I kind of take a peek in their backpack, and I'm like, you're carrying a. Why. Why do you have a washing machine on your back? That seems kind of unnecessary for this trip. So you're. I'm constantly looking at. No, you. We can remove this. We can. We don't need to do this anymore. And some of that's because we're so close to our own self that, well, let's use business as the example because this is the, you know, probably a very popular podcast amongst people who are in business and entrepreneurship. So the, the, the way that most of us had to get started is we had to hustle our faces off and we were doing a lot of stuff ourselves. You know, it's the chief bottle washer and, you know, mop pusher in the, in the, in the office as well as sales and marketing and finance or whatever. And most of them were doing terrible and. But a couple of them are pretty good at. And so then we get our business to a certain level. Let's just say we're at a million dollars and we got a few team members now and we, but we get into this now routine and habit of lots of stuff. We got to do lots of stuff like that's, you know, in order for us to keep on surviving, which is really the nature of zero to about $300,000 a year in business. There's a lot of studies that are done on this. That's kind of the phase of hustle your face off to figure out what's working, find your right market or niche or whatever. But then in all of that paint that you just threw against the wall, there's a kind of small little picture that's there that is going to be where you're going to focus your attention on to get you to the next milestone of like say $3 million. And so what now the process is, is we need to unshackle from the hustle preneur or the founder that started there. And now we need to move into creating security and stability. So it's less projects, projects, projects, more systems and refinement and optimizing things. And that's a different identity. That's a CEOing type identity. And that also demands. Both of them, demand discipline and consistency of showing up, especially consistency. Now it's the discipline of run your plays that you've created, run your plays and refine those plays, get better at running those plays. And so I say that because when people come to me and I'm looking in their backpack and I'm like, oh, you know what we need to throw out? It's you. It's this identity. Because this isn't just who you are, like me. We'll talk about this in a bit. This is going to be the Easter egg for people, or it's the open loop of talking about uniforms and totems and artifacts. So stay till the end, everyone. I just wanted to get my radio voice in once.

No, no, that was good.

Yeah. But, you know, so I've got a pair of glasses on right now. These are my. This is just part of my work uniform. These are non prescription glasses, everybody. I've been wearing them since 1997 when I first started and I had to build out my.

Not those same pair.

No, no, no, no.

That's pretty damn good.

It would be really good. But as my mother knows, I'm very good at leaving glasses behind. So.

You have a whole bunch of them.

Yeah. I've donated Ray Bans and Maui gyms around the world, so I should sign them from now on. So. But in the nature of the work that I do, Joe, I'm working with high achieving people and I don't just do coaching because I have, you know, group mentoring and then I create training programs and I'm also, you know, CEO of the company and stuff like that, although my wife is taking over, thankfully. But is that me showing up being a challenger with like big personalities? Is that really who I am? It's not really who I am. It's not all of me. Let's say it's a useful identity for me to bring to that role that I have as a coach for these people. And it could be so easy for me to believe that that's who I am because that's the muscle that I flex every single day for eight hours or 10 hours some days and have been doing it since 1997. But is that challenger Persona really going to help me be a good dad? It's not because kids have more willpower than parents. They will keep on fighting you and breaking you down. And so I'm very much more inspired with that role in my life to be more like my father and Mr. Rogers. And so before Molly was born in 2013, I would. I re. Watched a lot of rewatch Mr. Rogers stuff. And if you watch him, you'll see how anytime he's communicating with a kid, he always gets down on their level. And he's always, a lot of times got his hands, you know, resting on his knee. Very passive stance, very welcoming stance.

Or.

Body language that's there because he doesn't want it to be confrontational.

Right.

And it's pretty hard to argue with the fact that, you know, the man left a pretty indelible mark on at least American culture.

Right?

Oh, yeah. And I remember early on how many people when I was a kid would make fun of him and think he's goofy and all that sort of stuff. And now you look back and you just see how effective and respected that guy was.

Yeah. Tom Hanks even said when he was playing him and the interview with Jimmy Kimmel, I play it when I'm keynoting. You know, when I got asked to play this role, I thought, he's weird. He's like, I never really grew up around Mr. Rogers. I saw him, but I was like, he's just a weirder guy. And then, like any good character, I got to do my research. So he watched, I think it was 78 episodes of Won't yout Be My Neighbor. And, you know, Mr. Rogers, he's got his uniform come in, take off his outdoor shoes, put on his blue sneakers, and he'd put on that cardigan, Right. And he kind of said a few more nice words about Mr. Rogers. And then he said to Jimmy Kimmel, when you put on that red sweater and those blue shoes, you feel powerful. And Jimmy Kimmel says, really? He's like, yeah, it's like putting on Batman's cape and cowl. You feel powerful. And that goes into, like, one of the alter ego. Well, that's. That's. That's one element of the method that I developed around why it's so important to use a uniform, a totem, an artifact, to help you ritualize this identity. Because we have this naturally occurring phenomenon inside of our minds called enclosed cognition, which is that we as human beings, attribute story and meaning to the artifacts and the clothing that we all wear. So what happens, though, is if you were to put on a doctor's coat, you will actually, without you even having to even specifically think about this, you will enclose your mind in the cognitive traits and abilities of the meaning of that white coat.

Right.

Which means most people in our culture attribute being detailed, methodical, smart, successful to someone wearing a white doctor's coat.

Okay.

For the most part, other people might not, but that's kind of the. For the most part. So what happens then is when you put on the white coat, if you were to do an activity that demands being detailed, smart, and methodical, you will actually improve your performance without you going to a class, without you working on it. So when Tom Hanks. If Tom Hanks put on that red sweater and blue shoes before he watched those 78 episodes, would he have felt powerful? No, he would have felt like a goof, because that was his association to Mr. Rogers. Red sweater, blue shoes, goofball changed his meaning of it. That when he put it on, I felt powerful. And he started to live through the traits and abilities and qualities of the man that he saw on that tv. So coming back to me, that's how I wanted to be around my kids. Now, does that make me successful? Every single second of. Of it, no. But if I can improve myself 20% of the time, that's a pretty damn big impact to my three little kids, which is the most important role I could ever play in my life.

Absolutely.

I want to make this distinction here just for people that have not read the book, because you cover this. You know, the glasses thing. Were you wearing glasses? Inspired. You write about this in a book by Martin Luther King?

So, no, I did not know about Martin Luther King. So the story for Martin is I was doing. And it's great because, you know George Raveling.

No.

So George Raveling in the movie about Nike, when they're trying to get Michael Jordan to sign, they famously go down to. I think it's la, and they meet with George Raveling, who's an absolute legend in the world of basketball. Like, he's been basically Nike's basketball ambassador for the last 40 years.

Okay. So I think I know the character.

Okay.

Yeah. And I'd be surprised if you didn't come across George. Amazing man. He stood right behind Martin Luther King when he delivered the I have a Dream speech. Okay. And when MLK got done the speech, he handed it to George. And George was a basketball player at Villanova at the time. I believe he was a basketball player. Or is he assistant coach, one of the two. And. And so he had it. He still has it. So it's insured and all these kinds of things. But when I told this story to George, he was like, no way. That's not true. And here's the story. So I was doing a speech in San Antonio, Texas, in 2004, at this leadership event, and I talked about. It was about. My talk was about developing this new crop of leaders, millennials, at the time, because I had had so much experience doing some, like, mental game coaching with these people. So I had some different points of view and insights, but I shared on stage about the. The power of developing an identity. And I talked about when I first started my business, I was deeply insecure about how young I looked. I looked like I was 12, even though I was 21. And here I am talking about the inner game and mental toughness. But I don't have four bestselling books, Joe. And I don't have seven letters behind my name. You know, we all place these rules in our Head about when, when can we become a authority or something on talking about a topic, right? And I didn't really position myself as an authority. I just wanted to get a message out to people, which was how to develop the triune athlete, the mentally, emotionally and physically tough athlete. And when you align all three of those things together, you can unpack performance onto that field of play, whatever that might be, ice court, whatever. But I wasn't making the calls, Joe. I would go to bed every night, I'm going to make seven phone calls tomorrow and book me some speeches or something. And I would end that day and I wouldn't have made those speeches. And I would beat the shit out of myself and judge myself and feel so much shame over, like, do you even want this, Todd? Like, you know, you say that this is so important, but you're not doing it. And I watched an episode of Oprah as I was procrastinating the next day, and it turned out it's Oprah's favorite episode. And it's this episode with Johnny jocks. And this lady stands up in the audience. And what happens is Johnny recounts the story of Oprah doing one of her auctions of all of her clothing. And Johnny talks about how she couldn't afford any of Oprah's stuff other than a pair of shoes. So she bought a pair of Oprah shoes. And she was going through a very hard time. And she placed Oprah's shoes in the corner of her room. And whenever she felt like she maybe couldn't make it through that day, she would go and stand in Oprah's shoes. And I thought to myself, in that moment, wait, I used an alter ego when I played football. It was Geronimo. And it was the composite of Walter Payton and Ronnie Lott, my two heroes in football and five Native American warriors. Where I grew up, our farm and ranch in Alberta, Canada, it's kind of rich with some Native American history. And so I've always been deeply connected to that world. And that was. I took Geronimo on that field. You thought you were playing against the scrawny little 17, number 17, but no, you were coming up against my tribe of eight. That's what I called it, and my seven. And man, I played way better than I could have if I was doing it on my own. Now, Geronimo, though, wasn't custom built to help me win in business. And so I built Super Richard. Super Richard was Superman, Joseph Campbell and Benjamin Franklin, those three people specifically because I wanted Superman's decisiveness, because I was not being decisive. I was a man of inaction, not the man of action. And I fell in love with Joseph Campbell when he was on Bill Moyer's PBS special talking about the hero's journey. And I just, you know, I was 13 at the time, I think, and I fell in love with how this man articulated himself, right. You know, and so I wanted to be more articulate because I was talking about a message, and I think I said 14,000 words before I said the seven words that were really the value proposition of what I was doing. And then I wanted to be more like Benjamin Franklin because I just felt like he was one of the most confident humans that ever lived because he had like eight legendary careers in one lifetime, right? And so I wanted to be more confident because I was not confident. I was so insecure. And then I went to LensCrafters, which is like an eye optometry store in Canada. I went to West Edmonton Mall, which was the largest mall in the world at the time, and I bought a pair of non prescription glasses. I had to convince the lady to sell them to me because back then everyone was getting Lasik eye surgery, right? No one was getting glasses to like, for like Warby Parker cells nowadays. And so finally I got these glasses and I went home and I did my reverse Clark Kent. I put on the glasses just like he would take off the glasses to, you know, put on the cape, essentially, right? And so I became Super Richard. And Super Richard was built to be the advocate for my stuff. And now when you think about the other eye or trusted friend within, there's all this stuff wasn't very explicit at the time. I was just, I was doing anything that I could to just try and get to my next goal, right? Like, I mean, this business wasn't going to go anywhere at 75 bucks for a package of three sessions. And I wanted to get on stages. I wanted to, you know, talk to young kids about, you know, developing their mental toughness. And I, Super Richard, was hired specifically to be my sales guy and to get out there and be my advocate. And so when I put on those glasses, I was not Todd. I was Super Richard. And Super Richard was very confident in selling Todd's stuff because he believed in Todd. And I say that because that, that absolutely saved me because, you know, I come from a traumatic past where I had some very deep wounds from some stuff that happened to me as a kid. And, and I had a hard time believing in Todd because of the stuff that happened. And Super Richard came along to you know, be my. Be my advocate.

You know, let's talk about confidence and courage. I just. As a jumping off point.

And we can riff on that for a bit.

So, you know, Dan Sullivan has that story when he was in the. He was a cadet in the army, and they had like 60 of them, and they were having to do during that time in the world. He was born in 1944, so this was in the 60s, I guess he was with 60 of the other cadets. And they were. The. The boot camp obstacle course that they were running through had barbed wire and trenches they had to call, go through mud and water, all kinds of, you know, just obstacles they had to go through. And they used real bullets at the time, and they would shoot real bullets over their head. And they said, you have to stay low because if you lift your head up, you could get shot in the head and die. And so Dan is explaining this story, and he said, you know, the sergeant asked, you know, how many of you are scared? And no one except Dan raised his hand and said that he was scared. And he said, the only person here telling the truth is, you know, Cadet Sullivan or whatever. And he said, so Dan says, you know, he learned the difference between fear and courage. He said, fear is peeing your pants. Encourage is doing what you need to do with wet pants. And so in order for us to get to confidence.

We.

We often have to operate with courage. Like. So in my book, you know, I talk quite a bit about how to align yourself with the right people. You know, there's that zig Ziglar line, which is, you can have anything you want in life if you help enough other people get what they want. But my friend Martin Howey, when he had stage four cancer, came over to my office and he said, you know, a lot of people say these lines, like, people don't want a, you know, a drill. They want a hole. Or you can get anything you want in life if you help enough other people get what they want. He goes, but the problem is those things are often wrong, because sometimes people buy a drill not because they want a hole. They want to stir paint, because there's other things that you can do with drill other than drill a hole. So maybe they don't want a hole. Maybe they want, you know, paint to be stirred. And he said, the same thing with, you can help other people get what they want that won't do a damn thing for you. And that's true. Like, all of us have been in situations where we've really helped others get what they want that not only didn't help us at all, they oftentimes took advantage and oftentimes abuse you and rip you off and betray you. And what happens is when you're a giver, it you can become jaded by being a good human doing the right thing. Like everyone thinks they're doing the right thing. Even when people are doing the wrong.

Things, most people think they're right.

So it takes an enormous amount of awareness to realize that even when you think you're right, you could be totally wrong. That's another discussion. But the thing is most people think they're right. And that whole line, you know, people judge themselves on their intentions, they judge.

Others on their actions.

So you know, the, the when the actions of you being a giver and helping someone intentionally followed with action and then someone takes advantage of you, it can leave you in a very dark place. So when you become hurt or you have your heart broken, you become betrayed, you can put up walls to connecting with other people. And oftentimes when someone wants something from you and they're so persuasive to the point of physical assertiveness or you feel like, man, I don't know how to escape this sort of situation. That's where we have to be able to muster courage and either set boundaries. Now, preferably if we do this in advance, you have less of those sort of difficult situations to get in with people that are half not people that are elf, you know, easy, lucrative and fun versus hard, annoying, lame and frustrating. So what I wanted to talk with you guys about as it relates to this, since you're talking about courage, you know, how do you, how do you muster or develop the ability to resource yourself to fight when you need to fight back, Run away when you need to run away, ask for help when you need to ask for help. Because a lot of times when I was a dead broke entrepreneur struggling, none of this shit was fun. I didn't have an elf business, it wasn't enjoyable. I didn't know how to do marketing, I knew how to do any of this stuff. And I had to, I had to wake up every day and muster as much courage as I could to drag myself through the war that I somehow was in when I was going through addiction recovery, none of it was enjoyable. It sucked. And when you're, when you're doing withdrawals or you're trying to, you know, overcome, you know, the, the consequences of just life, danger, etc, it's very difficult. So I'd love to get your take don on you Know accessing courage so that we can function in those times when we need it. Because if you, you know, whatever you fear and don't face controls you. Whatever you fear and take steps to face, you can control it or at least get better at it. And that oftentimes requires courage. And I, I don't think anyone here would disagree that operating with courage doesn't feel good. Operating with confidence does feel good. So to go back to the skill, you know you, when you got the skill, you know you, there's a flow that's there when you don't. You're going to have to kind of muster this, this internal resourcefulness. So I'd love to get your take on that and anything you would say to this Dean also or anyone, anyone here, I'm totally open to hear what everyone else has to say about it. Because I, I think courage right now is really needed in the world, especially with givers because there's a lot of frickin takers out there.

Well, my thought on courage is what if it's a life threatening what Dan was going through situation? It makes total sense that he would feel fear, right? That's not a lack of courage. That's just the brain saying we may get our head shut off. Right? So courage, you got to over still operate even though you're afraid. And what do they say? Courage is not the absence of fear, right? It's operating in spite of fear. But when I, when I work with a golfer, I don't need them to feel fear because there's nothing on the golf course. That's what I explained to them. What are you afraid of on a golf course? There's nothing, there's nothing life threatening. But they make it into life threatening because they start seeing the bunker, they start seeing the water, they start seeing the trees and that attracts their attention. And now it becomes a lion. And that's what I said is if, if you think that way, you're going to create all kinds of fears, but there's nothing at your skill level that you can't do. So again, courage is, is not something that would be absent just because you have skill. Especially if it's life threatening, you have to operate in spite of it.

That's good.

So I used to tell myself, Don, the, the. I would imagine that everything we're seeing is just a holodeck. That the, none of that. The ball is sitting on one little patch of the ground and you're standing on that ground, the ball's not moving, nobody's yelling at you. Know there's no, no threat physically, you could set up exactly the way you need to, you know, how to swing. And the sight, the sight of that water or that stuff in your eye line, that's not affecting anything that you're having to do here. You know, it's all, it's going to fly through the air and it's going to land precisely the distance that you know that that club is going to go when you swing the way that you need to swing. It's just so funny how we psych ourselves out like that.

Well, the skill level of, of golf, it's, it's the hardest sport I've ever played. Because the best explanation I heard is somebody said to me one time, think about having a nail tapped into the wall. Now take a hammer and swing as hard as you can and drive that nail straight into the wall. That takes skill. You wouldn't be able to do it the first few times. It would take a long time. You know, the guy who said that to me, Hawk Harrelson is the announcer of the White Sox. He says it's also the equivalent of playing major league baseball and hitting every ball over second.

Baseball, huh?

How hard would that be?

Right.

And so the difficulty, and that's what I always try to explain to these guys. At your level, there isn't anything you can't do. They're so skilled. And you go out and play with these guys. The thing that's funny is people look at these guys and they say, well, you know, I could go out and play. They don't play the same course as we do. When they go on to a professional course, it is set up completely different than what the amateurs are playing. The rough is longer, the greens are faster, the pins are in tougher places. They're playing like Tiger woods said. He said, if you're a single digit handicap and you play some of the courses we play, you'd have trouble breaking 100.

That's the truth. I played sawgrass the, the last round that you could play before the tournament. And then they, they tore it tore down the clubhouse. And the rough was, you know, you go in that and that rough is punitive. I mean, it's like.

And they get out of it like it's nothing.

Exactly. Right.

And we just could take three shots to get out.

Yeah, right.

It's funny. Listen, you guys talk about golf. So Dean has this great golf analogy about how he works or he, like, he likes golf. I always say it's like, you know, George Carlin. It's A waste of real estate. But he. He is so much more you could do with that land. But anyway, Dean is like, why do I like playing golf? So he came up with an acronym which is G stands for goal, O stands for. And I remember all this shit. O stands for optimal environment, L stands for limited distractions, and F stands for fixed time frame. And so Dean set up a house where he does. He calls it his evil scheme hatchery, where he goes and has a whiteboard and a chair. And he doesn't have technology in the room. If he wants to bring in a laptop or a phone, he could do that, but he has it free of like computers and stuff, unless he wants to bring stuff in.

And then.

And there's no. There's this whiteboard. So it's like a blank space where he can do his entrepreneurial art, which in his case is thinking. And he goes and plays golf. So he gives himself a goal. He creates an optimal environment to do it in. He has limited distractions there. That's why there's no technology and stuff there. Unless he chooses bring it in and then a fixed time frame where he'll go in and you know, he's like, I play golf because I can, you know, I can go through 18 holes in what, three and a half, four hours or whatever. I don't ever play golf. So I don't really know this stuff. But, you know, it's. It's a good thing. We actually did an I Love marketing episode on how Dean how to go play golf in your own life and.

In A pleasure posted up. There's a YouTube video called the 50 Minute Focus Finder and it's right there. Gina posted it up in the. In the chat.

Yeah, and that's from years ago too. That was one of our very first episodes when we started doing I Love Marketing in 2010. Let me ask you guys something, because this is what's kind of going through.

My head at the moment when this.

May sound a little weird, what I'm noticing.

I like it already.

Yeah, like the setup here, a little cliffhanger. So when you think of the term meant for more, if you just think of more, if you look at meant meaning what you're trying to do, the people that seem to be engaged are engaged in something, and it's usually right now of service or helping or art or creativity or exercise or some entrepreneurial endeavors, some pursuit of something that they are trying to master, having to handle something that they didn't handle before. Now all of a sudden, either by volunteer Volunteering of their own choice or being forced into it. People are either pushed into, like to use my buddy Steven Pressfield, who wrote the book the War of Art, you know, resistance, whenever you're hit, risk. You know, it doesn't take an enormous amount of effort to do something that's a lower level activity. But if you're going to pursue a 12 step program, write a book, start an entrepreneurial enterprise, start a yoga practice, you're going to get hit with resistance. And I think right now, what's that?

Wear pants.

Exactly, exactly. You know, these higher consciousness activities like putting on pants every day. And so what? I spent about an hour and a half last night talking to Jay Abraham and I said, you know, the opening of the documentary that one of my clients put together for me, which is my movie Connected, which is the Joe Polish store. It's not even out yet, but people can watch the trailer@connectedthemovie.com and one of the first things I say at the beginning of the movie is this Charles Bukowski, the, you know, the crazy alcoholic poet who was a brilliant writer, he said, you know, it was along the lines of take the writer away from the typewriter and all you have left is a sickness which started him writing in the first place. And it's, it's kind of an interesting thing because, you know, I tend to apply that to entrepreneurs. You know, take the entrepreneur away from business and all you have left is a sickness which got them starting the business in the first place. Now saying it in a way of like, we are all spending our ambitions on something. Personally, I think the reason you're enthusiastic right now, Lisa, is because you have a book, you have something to put your energy towards. And when people don't have anything to put their energy towards a relationship or purpose or even how do I deal with being alone, like utterly alone, right? Like, I don't have family, I don't have a partner. I'm single right now, right. And it's interesting that I'm alone and I'm in. I'm a guy who's openly been in recovery for many, many years. And I feel pretty good right now. I mean, I don't feel great, but I feel pretty good. And I spend a lot of my day talking to people that struggle with addictions. I mean, several hours a day I'm interacting or engaging with people that are struggling with addiction and seeing people losing their shit. And really, you know, which I've talked about is a couple friends, you know, that I have, have had partners that have Tried to commit suicide in the.

Last now three weeks now.

And what I'm noticing is the people that actually can find a place to everyone's been uprooted. And if you can put your roots into a pot that feels like there's something there, then there's a semblance of you have some ability to manage or control your life even with the difficulty. But if people are just running around like raw nerve endings and they don't know where to go, they're kind of losing it. And I think there's a lot to be said without overstating it, that if you're meant for more and you sat down and say what am I meant for? Or if I was meant for more, what would that be? And you use like our friend Keith Cunningham's thinking time exercise. And if everyone got like a notepad, not even a computer, a piece of paper and said what am I meant for? What do I really feel like I'm put on this plan and just brainstorm and pick something. Especially if you're like, what do I do? I don't know what to do, I don't know where to turn. Who are you meant for, you know, to use the Dan Sullivan thing. Who do you want to be a hero to? Some people think, oh, I should be in this business or I should be doing this. But going back to like, you know, the eight profit activators which me and Dean have been, you know, for over a decade now doing I love marketing episodes, you know, we have these eight profit activators that are all based on something that Dean created. The before unit, the during unit and the after unit of a business that the first thing is select a single target market. And if you can't figure out what to do, then the question is, well, who do you want to be a hero to? Who's that target market? What do they want? What are they looking for? Because you know, you've constructed a whole methodology and a system on how to sell that. If people can't bring themselves out of that resistance though, they just are running around like in their head with like, what the hell do I do? And so I think there's a deeper conversation with when you're worried, when you're scared, when you're fearful, when you're confused, how do you actually find confidence or courage or strength in all of it in order to still forge ahead when things seem insurmountable? And I'd almost like to hear your guys perspective on that. Because the people that already have a business that already know what they're selling. Yeah, they're having to pivot. Everyone's hearing everyone talk about pivot, but the people out there that are fucking lost, like, they're really fucking lost. And if we could just give them a lighthouse to use our Fred, Abbey, she was talking about, what would that be? I'd love to hear you guys talk about that. Because if you think of meant for more, that's what it's all about. I think we're all engaged in doing this because we have ambitions. We were able to do something, and we've been able to reach out. But I think a lot of people are stuck right now, and I'd like to help them through that stuckness to whatever degree. We can do that on an I Love Marketing podcast.

Well, you know, there's a. There's so many different frameworks people can choose from, and I think sometimes there's just a divine appointment of the one that gets put in your face when you're in the need.

Right, right.

You know, I'm certainly lit up with because I have a book to bring out, but I'm more lit up because inside it is like, what you're saying. It's a place to start. I think people have the feeling, but they don't know what to do with it. I want to help more. I want to take this thing that maybe I've helped some people in my inner circle and help people beyond. I want to be a hero to not just my kids, but all kids dealing with XYZ or women or families or people in financial distress. So I love that side door instead of the what? Like, figure out who you want to be a hero to.

Something that you said how. Reminded me there's a book called Overachievement. And one of the things that all sort of overachievers share in this guy's observation is something that he called irrational confidence. And I thought when you were talking about, you're just knowing that you're going to beat this, that you're going to come back, you're going to walk, you're going to be, you know, just being so optimistic and happy, it was irrational in everybody's view and that you were that. But I think there's something to that, that that's all part of it, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah. I think, Dean, that's a really interesting point. And I think. I think that it's true. And why the doctors were going like, he's irrational, he's delusional. This doesn't make sense. And for me, you know, I call that unwavering faith. Right. And I think there's, that's really, that's really two different ways of looking at a very similar thing. And it's, it's unwavering faith as a decided upon strategy.

Yeah, right.

Meaning if you take like the world's like, like Michael Jordan. I grew up watching Michael Jordan. He had an irrational confidence, an unwavering faith that he could make every shot that he took. And this is true for the best athletes in the world. They believe they're going to make every shot that they take, even though now that's a decided strategy to increase their success rate because the odds are no, no one makes every shot they take.

Right.

But who's to say how much confidence is rational either? Yeah, that's the funny thing. Right. If you're going to think you don't know what the outcome is going to be, there's no like set thing in stone that it's half and half and you've got to kind of deal with that. So if you're going to err on the side of being 100% unwavering, like you said in one direction, why not err 100% in the direction of confidence that you're going to recover, that you're going to get through this, that you're going to be better than ever.

Yeah, I agree. And I think that there's an important piece to this and it's acceptance. It's expecting the best and accepting the rest. And that's where people struggle with that irrational confidence or unwavering faith is as human beings, we really, we crave certainty. And so when people lack certainty, like if you're given a diagnosis, you know, as grim as I was, that there's a, you know, 30% survival rate, so 70% you're going to die rate. And I think most people go, well, it's this fear of failure. Like, what if I put my faith in what I want, but I don't really know if it's going to happen so that they feel like they can't actually invest that full unwavering faith and confidence. But you have to realize it's a strategy that increases your likelihood of success. So you expect there is no other option, that I'm going to beat this cancer and live to be 100. There's no other option that I'm going to sell a million copies of this book. There's another option that I'm going to, that I'm going to. Whatever it is in your life that you want to Accomplish, but you simultaneously accept it may or may not happen. I'm not attached to the outcome. And when I was told I would never walk again, it was, I will walk again. There's no other option. While simultaneously knowing that I might never walk again. And I was at peace with that. Right. So it's this interesting kind of balance between acceptance and faith.

Preference is the word. With Homer McDonald. When we did Stop youp Divorce, one of the things that he said people have to let go of in order. Even under seemingly impossible odds that their spouse is ever going to come back. They have to get out of this thing. That they need them to come back or that they would be devastated if they don't. Once they get to a position that it's a preference. I prefer if they come back, but I'm going to be fine if they don't. It's an interesting shift in our minds there.

You know what's interesting too?

And I want to ask you, because.

Like in our book, even the Miracle.

Morning for Addiction Recovery, which all of.

You need to buy immediately if you've not got it.

I know a lot of you have already gotten this book that. Follow us. The biochemical aspect of addiction, where your brain is not working. And what you described how with just being in that state, I mean, that's the thing with disease, that's the thing with addiction. That's the thing with depression and anxiety. I mean you don't have happy chemicals flowing through. And then when you got off the chemo, that substance that changed. One of the things I think about in addiction and I'm relating it here, is that hope heals. And a lot of times if someone.

Goes to a 12 step group, they are hopeless.

And that's kind of. They're just looking, they're desperate, right? They're not. They're in a place where they're looking for people that or anything that they can give them some sort of faith. And so when you say unwavering faith, when you lose that, when you don't.

Have it, being able to reach outside.

Of yourself, being able to find, you know, if you're lucky, someone will show up. Other times you have to put yourself in the position to where you find people that will believe in you more than you believe in yourself. And so that's why we talk about, you know, even in the book, things about volunteering, finding people that are in a worse place than you are. Because there's always someone that needs help. And that if you can ever get yourself on that point in a very Interesting way. It helps pull you out of that darkness.

And if you haven't bought it already yet, then get off your ass and buy the book. All right, in chapter four, you talk about the superhero formula. So what is it, and how can people use it to change their life?

Yeah, the superhero hero formula is really just a way of you identifying with who you are at your core. I mean, everybody is in your DNA. You are a warrior in your DNA. You have everything it takes to be successful. And for most people, really knowing who they are at the core is the essence of. The best part of the work that we do is us reintroducing people to who they are. So sometimes they actually have the audacity to stand on a stage and look at people and go, you know, I don't know you by name or never met you before, but I know more about you than you know about yourself. And people look at you like, what? What are you talking about? I go, I know you better than you know yourself because you are a superhero. You have. You have the capacity to do superhuman things with your life, but what's it gonna take for you to live into that? And then we sort of reverse engineer the recipe of what it would take to get past the obstacles that they think are obstacles that aren't even obstacles to begin with. And I'll say to them, is there something that somebody could come up to you with a problem? Everybody's great at giving advice to other people, right?

Oh, aren't they?

They're experts at that.

Right.

If somebody comes up to you with a problem and you go, oh, this is what you do. Fix it. There's three things, and done. You're good. I don't even know what you're thinking about. Like, why is that an issue? And then you think about right now. What's one challenge that you're facing in your life that you're having the hardest time with? And isn't it true that there'll be somebody else that can walk up to you and go, ah, just do these three things, and you're good to go. You're done. Right, Right. And I think that's the point, is that we cannot really see ourselves. It's the most challenging thing to see our own blind spots.

Totally. Which is why it's so important, in my opinion, to have great sounding boards and what I call a genius network. I have a company called Genius Network, but I think of a group of people that just have immense wisdom and capabilities that you can tap into. So who are your friends? I Mean, who are people that you hang out with?

Plus that, just for a second, because it's like there's three things that we talk about in the book that you got to get stakeholders. You got to know who's a stakeholder in your success, who's going to be impacted by you being successful, or maybe who's going to be impacted by you not being like, you know, your kids, you know, they're a great leverage point. You used the word leverage earlier, right? I mean, they're great leverage. Or your friends or your family or somebody you love, you know, that you're supporting in some way. So who's the stakeholder holder who's a direct recipient of the good, the bad, the ugly, whatever you know, that might be? Who are your mentors? Who are the people that you're modeling and looking to for guidance? And then who's the group that you're hanging around with that you know, you call a mastermind group or genius network? That's perfect because it's. Those are the. Those are the people that can hold up the mirror so you can see yourself accurate. More accurately. Even more accurate.

Well, yeah, I mean, that's my. That's my big trick, is that I think any problem in the world can be solved with the right genius network. The way that in the context that I think about it. So I just really constantly am thinking, okay, who do I want in my world? Because when there's shit that I don't know how to handle or I don't know how to think about it, they know how to think about it, and they could offer me advice. And a lot of times you can offer people suggestions, advice, counsel, whatever you want to call, call it. And then when you forget your own advice, they can feed it back to you and remind you of what you told them at some greater point in time. Which is why I think it always makes sense that if someone's not going to pay you money, at least set it up so that you are adding an enhancement to their life. Because that will always come back to you, even if it doesn't come back directly from that person. The mere fact of putting it out there. I mean, one thing that I heard early on in my life is, be nice to the people you meet on the way up. They're the same people you meet on the way down. And if there's any relationship advice, and I have tons of relationship advice for people, as a matter of fact, I'm writing a book right now on how to connect with people. It's simply Realizing that as you go through life, do not leave scorched earth, you are going to run into the same people. There are people that, when I was in my early 20s, it didn't occur to me then that I would be running into those people 25 years later. And I do. And some of these people are some of my dearest friends. Today, because I wasn't an asshole, I really thought about reputation. I never sold anything that I felt was not that I would not want to sell to a close friend or a family member. I think about that all the time. And if someone doesn't like what it is that I've sold, I will get give them their money back because I don't want anyone having a legitimate reason to say that this guy has not really cared about me and that sort of stuff. One of the things I've never talked with you about this. One of the ways that I gauge people is how are people that are more powerful treat people that are less powerful than them. Like, if you're out at dinner and there's a server or someone holds open a door, always say thank you. I mean, always be courteous. Always show that even if you're having a crappy day when people are doing things, just acknowledge them. And it's simple. And it adds so much sunshine to other people's lives because, you know, a.

Lot of people aren't.

They're not doing well in life. And the more that you can be a fountain versus a drain, the more that you're going to just build your own network. And when your life is kind of, maybe you don't know what your purpose is yet, which more of a reason to read a book like Pivot when you're not quite there. If you can at least tap into human kindness and acknowledgement and gratitude for everyone around you and the people that you encounter, that alone will give you a certain level of energy and a certain level of strength. And if you do that consistently. Because one of the things that you're talking about is it's not some grand thing that you do. It's these constant little daily things that you do, and you keep doing those frequency.

It's like you said, going to the gym. You know, you don't go to the gym and get a great workout and then leave and go, yeah, I'm set for life.

Just like.

I mean, that's. It's the frequency. That's the key.

Yeah.

And it is the little things that you do continuously. I mean, I'd say at this stage in my own Business career, the biggest challenge is consistency. It's just to maintain consistency. Right. I don't know if that's the same for you, but absolutely, that's a differentiator. At a certain level in a company's success, what stops you from getting to that very next level or to that really higher level has to do with consistency.

Totally. And this will sound really funny to some people, but what a lot I. And I've worked to maintain relationships with people that I find very interesting, very capable, very smart givers. I mean, most of my world is, I do my best.

If people show signs of being a.

Taker, I get them out of my life as quickly as humanly possible. And what a lot of people misinterpret as genius is simply redundancy, where people have stuck with something over and over and over again and they've just gotten really good at it. And if you do that, the world will view a lot of that as genius because you are good at it. And in some levels, I guess you could call it genius. You know, people like, they hear me talk about marketing and they're like, oh, you're a genius marketing. I'm like, you know, when God was doling out brains, I got 98% of my brains to develop a marketing strategy and the other 2% on how to run the rest of my life. I mean, you know, there's, there's. I just stuck with it. It's not that something someone couldn't do or someone couldn't learn. It's just a lot. It is consistency.

You ever read any Patrick Lencioni books?

No, I have not, actually.

I'll recommend him to you.

I actually do have one at my office and I've never read it.

Yeah, the five dysfunctions of a team is great. And the advantage is also really great. And in the advantage, he talks about that redundancy and really for the purposes of you revolution, reiterating especially the important things and you think, and that is kind of the yakety act that goes on in my head sometimes is especially around things that have to do with our culture or what our mission is and stuff like that, is that all people have heard this before, especially the executive team. How many times you going to tell them the same thing? How many times you going to build the pyramid and show them the structures to create an unstoppable team? You know, they got to be able to repeat it chapter and verse. And the truth is, until you're redundant, until it gets to a point of redundancy, they probably can't repeat it, they can't teach it. And then ultimately the worst thing that, you know, the best thing that can happen is that it cascades. And what stops it from cascading is your. The little voice that says, oh, I said this before, or I'm being redundant. So I've stopped apologizing now for my redundancy because I used to, I would start off, I'd say, hey, I'm going to go over this and I apologize for being redundant. And you know, here's. That's my little. My little, Little Adam, right? The little, the little insecure. And all the stuff that I work on in my own spiritual practice about not being, you know, having everybody have to like me or have everybody have to please, you know, have them all agree. Like, to me now, consensus is the enemy of real, of great execution in a company trying to consensus build. But I spent two years, the first two years that I was in this position trying to build consensus, and it was a fool's errand. And I was the fool.

That's great. Well, thanks for sharing that. Well, that reminds me of the covey line. To know and not to do is not to know, to understand, and not to do is not to understand. So a lot of times people, when what you're hearing actually turns into an action, then you actually get it. But a lot of people have heard something and they can regurgitate it, but.

They don't live it at all.

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