You Don't Need To Be A CEO To Be A Leader, You Just Need This! | Joe Polish

What makes a successful producing entrepreneur? I'll let Marie give me honors. Ah, gosh.

What makes a successful entrepreneur? I'm not sure that somebody will know that they're an entrepreneur from the beginning. I think they will have a desire to make a difference to other people's lives. And, you know, they'll see that, you know, that something's frustrating them. There's a gap in the markets. They feel they can do it better themselves, and they'll try to fill that gap in the market, and that's. And then they almost become an entrepreneur by default. I don't think you can sort of set out to become an entrepreneur. I think you've got to set out to make a difference to other people's lives.

So when it comes to leadership, do you think anyone can be a leader? And if so, what does it take? And what are some of the biggest ideas behind being a great leader?

So, yes, I believe everyone can be a leader because you have a choice. When you walk out in the world every day, you can either be a victim or you can be a leader. And that's really what I've spent the past 15 years on. And the leader who had no title is all about that, which is you can lead without a title. The world says you need to be a prime minister, a president, a billionaire, an mba, a CEO, and then you're a leader. And that is just such a myth that causes people to betray the leader that lies within them. And so leadership is less about a title, less about the size of your office, less about how much money you have. It's much more a way of thinking, a way of being. And like I say, it's just the opposite of being a victim. So anyone can walk out in the world, regardless of what they do or where they live, and start thinking, feeling, and behaving like a leader. And you can see a victim a mile away. It's like you can hear it in their words. You know, I went to the dentist three days ago, and, you know, there was someone in the office, and there's no judgment, but just by his words, it was like, oh, I tried to do this, but I couldn't. I can't do this. Oh, the weather's bad, whatever. And I've been at this so long, he was suggesting his beliefs. Because your words reveal your beliefs, right? And so the victim is all about, I can't. And it's because of this. And they give away their power. Someone once said the number one way we give away our power is thinking we don't have any. And so the leader is very different. The leader is all about, I can the language of possibility. I mean, words are so incredibly powerful. And so that's the opportunity everyone on the planet has today, which is to stop giving away their power, stop blaming the world around you. And as Gandhi said, walk out in the world and be the change you want to see in the world. And that's just what being a leader is all about.

Hey, I hope you're enjoying this video. And I want to let you know that I have a new book that's come out and if you'd like to get it absolutely free, there's a link below in the description. Or you can wait until the end of this video or you can Simply go to joesfreebook.com and you can get a copy there. You really can't motivate anybody else. It's a lot easier to select enthusiastic people. And once you create a conscious culture, it selects for its own kind, which is interesting. A company has an immune system. And the people that don't fit into the culture, the immune system begins to select them out and get rid of them. So what should entrepreneurs look for and do in order to better select talent instead of trying to motivate people? And what can entrepreneurs do to cultivate and encourage self selecting cultures?

Cultures?

Well, of course we can inspire people. I don't want to say you can't motivate anybody, you can inspire people. But I consider it kind of like a bucket with holes in it. If people are dependent on you to fill them up with energy and it's all going to leak out. So they eventually have to be able to create their own energy. So again, I kind of talked about it already. You've got to create a culture that really allows human beings to be creative and flourish where they feel a sense of purpose, they have a sense of meaning, they have a sense of belonging that they're cared for, people they care about and that they can have some fun in the workplace where they can be fully human. We need to create workplaces where humans can be fully human in a sense, their highest potential of being a human. So I've always had that perspective and I've tried to model it. And then I try to instill the values and get the culture. I spend a lot of time thinking about the culture. I sometimes think it's like a gardener. You got to look around. If there's a few weeds that you got to pull out, you got to pull them out. There are other things you need to Plant. And if you're the entrepreneur of your business, what you'll find out as your business grows that the business begins to take on a lot of your own personality. The things that are good about you and the things that are not so good about you. And they just unconsciously model on the leader. It's just the way it works. Just like kids model on their parents and then later their peer group. That's what we are, human beings. We copy each other. So once you realize that, then you got to get your own shit together. Because one of the things that I learned in leadership is that when I got stuck somewhere in my own life, oftentimes the company got stuck, too. And when I got unstuck, that let the company move forward. So personal growth is very important. It really is. And it used to be seen as sort of narcissistic, focused on that. Now you grow not just for yourself, but you grow for your whole organization. So one of my goals is to continue to learn and grow until the day I die.

So you're very transparent about many issues, and sometimes it makes people mad or they criticize you, and the company can even become, you know, hopefully this can become the subject of resistance or boycotts. And so what can entrepreneurs here learn from you about handling criticism, dealing with the media, and dialoguing with people who may disagree with their perspectives?

Well, it's a tough question for me because, I mean, I tell the joke that I failed media training in Whole Foods Market three separate times. In media training, they always teach you to look, decide what you want to say, and then just whatever they ask you, just bridge to it. Just bridge to. But the person asks me a question, I try to answer it truthfully and honestly and authentically. And that gets me in trouble sometimes. And I don't even care about people attacking me personally. You're welcome to attack me. I don't care. But they attack my baby. They attack Whole Foods, and they try to hurt Whole Foods. And for those of you that are parents, you know, nothing upsets you more than having your kids attacked and beat up by bullies. So I've learned the hard way, that I cannot be as open, particularly about politics in this society as I once was. I wrote an op ed piece in the Wall street journal back in 2009 that led about Whole Foods alternative to Obamacare, and it led to massive boycotts. 350,000 people signed a petition to boycott Whole Foods Market. There were petitions in our stores. There was thousands of letters that were sent to the board of directors demanding that I be fired. So we live in this incredibly interesting society now where if you say things that people don't like, they just smear you and they attack you. And it's made me, I don't want to say it's made a chilling effect, but I'm a little bit more careful about giving my, at least my political opinions in public.

At least until I retire.

Then I'm going to go on a rampage.

Let's talk about identity leadership. Okay. That's the title of your book and you say in order to lead others, you must lead yourself. You've talked about being control, you talked about your thoughts. I want to just dig a little deeper. What does it mean to lead yourself and what are the results of leading yourself? Because we hear a lot about leadership. You know, right now is a really important time where the entrepreneurs that you're talking to right now are a lot of people from Genius Network. I mean, literally millions of people follow the people that are in this group and look to them for leadership. So I wanted to, you know, in order to lead yourself, you know, and then leading others, like to get your thoughts that.

Yeah. 21st century says you have to be a self directed learner, you have to be a lifelong learner. This is kind of the you economy and you have to focus on you and develop you so that you're prepared for the technological revolutionary change that's happening right now. You have to be a learner and you got to stay on the cutting edge. It's almost impossible to do that the way the system is set up. You know, it's like I talked about before. We, you know, we have an educational system where we memorize, take tests, repeat information back and label. It's a great two weeks later we forget the information. So there is no learning for the most part. And then we're just kind of working every single day, doing the same thing over and over every day. So if you don't create some self mastery, if you don't know who you are, if you're not focused on what you love and what your purpose is in life, you're pretty much out of it. I don't know how you're going to do it. It's almost impossible to do it unless you are building and growing and getting out of that fixed mindset. You have to have a growth mindset. You got to be able to be a better person today than you were yesterday. And the only way you can do that is to be able to source information and access information. That's relevant to your development. So you have to take control of your own lifelong learning process. And again, you have to be able to understand the value of education and information and how do you apply that information from a cognitive level? You know, you got to be a, you know, constantly thinking about how to, how to, how to make yourself better, how to improve your life. Be the best person you can possibly be.

Yeah.

So then the leadership is. That's what it is. It's authenticity. You know, before you can actually become a leader, if you want to become a leader, you first have to become a leader of yourself. And again, you got to be able to change the learning system around, which is what I teach through this nine step success process is how to learn and how to build and how to grow.

You know, just because we're limited in time. Steadman, what's the best place for them to start? Just reading your book first or how would people that really do want to learn your whole process? Because I know it's extensive. Where should they go? Is there anything online you want to direct them to or just tell them to read your book?

I have a nine step success process. But you got to read a lot of books.

Yep.

Steve Covey, Brian Tracy, you know, all the books you can get your hands on. If you're dealing with trauma and you're dealing with pain and you want to unpeel the onion, then what you have to go is you got to go internally to figure out again, how do you actually do that? And sometimes socially, I mean, it takes a long time to work on yourself. It takes a lifetime to be able to do that. And it's an internal issue. So if you can read and learn about who you are, what you're capable of, and then find something that you really, really care about that makes you happy, find your purpose. That's your foundation for growth and development that's going to help you change. You know, you do what you do because you love it.

Yeah.

And it's changed your life and you've been able to organize a global marketplace around it. And you're thinking every day how to become better. And you're changing your environment based on who you are. Those pictures in the back of you are a reflection of who you are as a person. And so to be able to build whole world around Joe, man, that's got to make you happy and also keep you out of trouble.

Probably more of a keep me out of trouble than anything else. You know what a lot of people say is like, God, why do you spend all this time helping with addiction and all this. And you don't sell anything and you've spent so much time and money funding it and everything. I'm like, well, you know, it's actually a really good way to help with my own sobriety and stuff. When you are serving others at that level mean, it just really kind of helps you keep in check.

Well, the beautiful thing is you're strong and you're smart and you're a hard worker and you're a thinker and you're a reader. And to be able, you know, and you've learned a lot throughout the years to be able to take all of that and lead other people and help other people, it doesn't get any better than that. And that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to be stronger, better, smarter, faster every single day because you have the opportunity. And because we live in America, the greatest country in the world.

You know, I just have this thought that's occurring to me right now with you and Andre here, and it just reminds me that I heard someone, I think maybe three days ago that had said, yeah, you know, I feel like I'm in prison. And it now has a different meaning based on just what Andre said. Oh, I mean, I didn't have an iPhone, I didn't have an iPad. I could do 14 days or what. And you guys both work within prisons. And then with Andre at times where I've heard him talk or I've interviewed him, where he said it was one of the greatest things that ever happened to me because he was forced to have to really get to look at, like, what the hell am I doing with my life? Right. How did I get so much anger and rage? Which is what you mentioned earlier, Stedman. And there's a lot of people that feel their freedoms have now been taken away. And I'm having to juggle right now with the date that we're doing this. Some people that are like, you know, the economy is going to crash. We need to let entrepreneurs do what it is they need to do. And then others, and some of these same people are on watching us right now that, no, people can't go out anywhere. They're going to. This is about containing this disease and everything in between. I mean, this person thinks this is the right way to do it. The other person thinks that's a death sentence for people. And then the whole where you're at right now, you're now limited. There are things you used to be able to do that we took for granted. And all of a sudden, those options are not available. So in this space, what do you think? The greatest. You talked about thinking, you talked about mindset. I would love to hear from both of you. One, how would you recommend people best utilize this adversity as a way to get to know themselves, learn how to make better decisions and connect with themselves? Because some people have told me privately, man, I've not been home with my spouse and partner and kids like this ever before, and I'm going nuts. And so everyone is having different experiences about this. And I'd love to have you guys give some. Some thoughts, recommendations, suggestions on how to make the most of what a lot of people perceive as a very horrible situation.

Well, I think you have to. If I can go first, I think you have to be able to eliminate the limiting beliefs about what you can't do, because this is, you know, and not look at it as. Look at this as a negative, but begin to figure out, you know, and ask yourself, what can I do? What is possible for me in this situation? You know, we're lucky to live in America, and we're lucky to have access to technology and phones. And so how do you now begin to work on a purpose in life that allows you now to. No matter what happens if the world stops, you can keep going, you can keep developing, you can keep building? You know, there's a saying that success is when preparation meets opportunity. It's in the preparation. And let me just tell you something. It's all preparation.

How can people ultimately get clear on what they really want in life? And you have six steps for getting clarity. So can you kind of go through some of them?

Yeah, I mean, to me, the first. The first piece of clarity and. And it's a really big deal is again, this process of unbelieving, of looking at your life and examining why you believe, what you believe, where your beliefs come from, basically. So it's an awareness of where your beliefs come from, examining a little bit about why that is and then making a conscious choice whether to continue to believe those things or not believe those things. Because we know that whatever you're believing is what's produced your, you know, created your actions, and now you're results of the other fruit on the tree, if you will. And so recognizing that. And then in the process, this is really important is letting go, is being able to learn the process of letting go. So, I mean, I love when I'm teaching to refer people to books because books are great. It's a great way to Learn in your own environment, right? My environment's usually like a hot tub. And one of the books I love is the. The Sedona Method. Hal Dwoskin, and he's part of the Transformational Leadership Council.

I went through Sedona Method in the early 90s.

Amazing, right? It's incredible. And when you realize that you can release stuff and you release shit and shit thoughts and all the stuff that comes out of that, you have so much more clarity to be able to create a vision, which is the next thing. It's. The next step is, you know, when you have a clearer view of. Of what you believe or what you want to believe even, and why you believe what you have believed, and you make a choice to maybe not believe some or unbelieve some of those things, you get to create a new vision for your life. And, you know, any, any CEO, anybody that's managing or running teams knows that you have to have a big vision.

Right.

That other people can, can be excited about. You know, but that starts with, with you. You're not going to enroll anybody else in your vision until you know what your vision is.

Exactly. And you got to have one. And I mean, it doesn't need to be perfect. But there's, you know, the fact is there's so many people. If you don't create your own value system, then you spend your life adopting other people's. And a lot of.

Could you repeat that?

Yeah. If you don't develop your own value. You know, human happiness comes from developing your own value system, not adopting someone else's. Because if you. And most people, they'll read a book and they'll try to take that author's stuff and make it their own versus taking it and applying it and developing their own value system with it. You're not ever you. If you don't develop your own philosophy, if you don't apply it to your own life, your own situations, your own desires, and then you end up, you know, living someone else's life. Yeah.

So it's. Yeah.

Develop your own value system.

I think that's powerful.

Yeah, it is. It's worked well for me. I think about it all the time. What are some of the results you've seen people achieve after utilizing the tools that you basically teach and pivot?

That's really the coolest part of this, is that, you know, we've seen people that have created massive money, you know, success and business and things, and that's usually what people say they want. It's the first question kind of you know, what would your life be like if you had no worries about money? And then all of a sudden they're happy, they're healthy, they have great relationships, you know, that kind of thing. So they're after the money and there's nothing wrong with that. But what I've seen is that in addition to people producing wealth, what they've really been able to produce is a more peaceful life, a happier life, a more on purpose life, the kind of a life we don't worry about money at all anyway. And it's not because you don't care about it, it's because money flows as you know, is a result that flows out of the way. You're showing up differently when you're a purpose driven person, when your intention is to serve, not to take. Money is, you know, money is a fruit that hangs on that tree, the root, you know, the roots that create the fruits. And it's the root of that intention to serve and to help others and make the world better or to relieve pain or whatever it is that you know, you're going to be able to use your special gifts to add value. That just produces a fruit that's called fulfillment, you know, and I love where Tony Robbins, early on when I started to read and listen to him, he'd say, you know, success without fulfillment feels like failure.

Right.

And I've, you know, that was me, he was talking directly to me when I was a lawyer and I'm going, holy shit. So I've got plenty of money, you know, I've got power, authority and all that kind of stuff and yet I'm fucking miserable. Why am I so unhappy? Well, because the key to happiness was missing from the equation, right?

Right.

So one of the great results that come from people reading a book like hopefully like Pivot, but coming to a training and being in a space, a heart centered, you know, heart centered space for their own personal development is that they're gonna, they're gonna discover the truths about themselves. And some of those truths are, will shock, you know, they'll be shocking, it will be shocking to them when they discover what they really, really want in life.

Right?

And more often than not, it's not really a money driven thing.

You know what's funny is when I was dead broke, carpet cleaner, living off credit cards and I would read Think and Grow Rich and the Power of Positive Thinking and many of the classic personal development books, it wasn't until I learned marketing and some strategies where I was able to actually make money and I became a millionaire. By the time I was 30 and I still, at the time I was thinking, man, if I just have the money, that will solve so much of the shit. Not realizing that money actually allows you to buy some pretty bad vices.

Money's a magnifier. I heard somebody once say, isn't it true?

It is true.

If you're a shit, more money can make you even a bigger shit.

Oh yeah, yeah. I've seen it happen at so many levels. And so what's interesting though, and again, I am never a person to poo poo money. I mean, if you don't have money, you don't have food, you can't get medical care. I mean, when people say money can't buy happiness, I think they're crazy because there's a lot of things that make me happy that I can buy with money. However, like Jim Rhone says, you can't hire someone to do your push ups for you. Money's not going to buy you true peace of mind or relationships. It'll give you access to, to things, but how you interact with it is a really important thing. So I'm never a person to poo poo money? Money's really valuable in a certain context. Taken in the wrong way though, it could lead to a lot of self destruction. That's what you see happen with lottery winners. You know, they two years within winning the lottery, they're usually in worse debt than they were before they ever won it.

Exactly. And here's one little addition to that, or plus two, that which is that we dive in, you know, in our training, we dive into why you want money to begin with. Because if you do truly want a lot more money, often that simple shift in that 5 degree change in your direction has to do with your motivation for money.

Right.

So if, when you're, you know, you brought up Jim Rohn, so he's got a great quote on this, which is the bigger the why, the easier the how. Yeah, you know, the how the dreaded houses are Mike Dooley would call them. Right. That's the problem that stops people because they're not really, they're not solid on their why. Yeah, that's one little thing. But it's a major shift for folks.

And see the reason it's useful from my experience, and I can only speak from my experience the reason, you know, people say to me all the time, why do you still go to seminars? Why do you read all these books? I mean you, you know, because I've read over a thousand and business books, I've got an incredible library. I've been to more events and things than most people that I know. The reason that I do it is not because there's something I haven't yet learned. It's just the whole process to me is kind of like working out. I mean, you don't just go and have a great workout and you're healthy or you eat one healthy meal and all of a sudden it's handled. It's just part of life. It's just something that I do and it keeps me in an engaged state. To me, it's just part of a process and you live that way. And when I live that way, life works better. It just does. So it's one of those things that I do. The thing about money is when someone is broke and they don't have their financial needs, like they literally can't pay their rent, as an example, or they're deeply in debt, it's very hard for them to say, hey, you're going to get the peace of mind. You're going to do this, you're going to do that. I'll tell you when I learned from Dan Sullivan that there's five different ways you get paid for something. I used to read all these books in the beginning of my career of how much is my time worth per hour? Am I spending my time making, broken down to the minute, how much you want to make? I would always beat myself up because I would find myself focusing on activities that didn't always work, bring in the highest level of money. And some didn't bring in any money, but they were just interesting to me. But I would always layer this compared to the stuff that I was reading about. Every minute of your working out day needs to be focused on the return. And it wasn't until my friend Dan Sullivan shared with me this thing called an opportunity filter where there's five ways you get paid. The first way is reward. You get paid with money. The second is appreciation.

Un.

Another way you get paid is utilization. People utilize you. Another way you get paid is people refer you. And another way you get paid is people. It enhances you as a person. And until I actually realize that, for me, whenever I'm working with a person on a project, my number one criteria is does it enhance me? Second, do people utilize me? I mean, I do not like giving advice, especially proven business strategies to someone that says they want them, could transform their business with them and they don't use it.

Don't throw your pearls to swine.

Exactly. It's the Emerson Quote, you ask for a new idea when you haven't used the first one that I gave you. So when people don't utilize it, the third is people appreciate me. The fourth do they refer me, and fifth, do they pay me? So I like getting paid. I do want money. However, that's only one way of getting rewarded. And so I, I go into my life now saying, okay, is this person elf easy, lucrative and fun or are they half hard, annoying, lame and frustrating? So you can have an elf business or a half business. And I really think about stuff that way. And I'll tell you, operating that way brings me a hell of a lot of peace of mind and it keeps me out of a lot of success traps. Because when people get successful, success traps are harder to get out of than failure traps. Because when you're down and out and all you do have to to do is go up, you know, I mean, you literally, you could try anything. Exactly. But when you have like built a business or a career, let's say, where you're good at it and you're making money, but it's draining the life force out of you, it's actually hard to give that shit up. It's really hard because you're not even, I mean, you're not even aware of it. So that's why getting perspectives from the outside, that's why I'm always saying, you know, read, like read a book. I mean, read this book. It will change your perspective, it will give you strategies, and it's all in the more that you're into personal development. Love it or hate it. And certainly there's a lot of shit out there. There's a ton of people that are pontificating nonsense.

There's some posers for sure.

Yeah. However, the more you do this, the more, you know, this works for me and this doesn't. Because some things work for some people and don't work for others. But the point is, it is a journey. So let me ask you. I'm rambling.

I just don't think there's any limit to it. So like you said, I'm a lifelong learner and constantly reading. And it really is because there's, I believe that to be a great teacher, which as we said, to learn something is to teach something. So here's the circular nature of this, right? In order to be a great teacher, you must be a great student. And the day you stop being a great student student, you stop being a great teacher. So then you stop learning. What's the essential tools to keep Evolving. So you just basically kind of shrivel up and die at that point or.

Something, or you start to suck more than you were. Like, there's a lot of authors that I know and a lot of speakers that when they were hungry and they were first starting out, I think were far better than they are. Once they got the ego, once they've got the fame, once they got the notoriety. The ones that I admire the most, I've done done a whole podcast episode with Dan Kennedy, who I've worked with for many, many years. The grumpy marketer Dan. We would talk about. When you're first starting out in your career, you get paid for what you do, and hopefully your what is good. Like, whatever you put out into the world, it creates value for other people. It's good. And if you do a really good job at what you put out there, then you become a who, and then you start getting paid for who you are. So a lot of people that become famous, they spend more time hooing than they do what ing. When you become a who. But your what that you're putting out there is still incredibly valuable or preferably keeps getting better and better and better. That's why a guy like my friend Tony Robbins, I mean, we're both friends with Tony. I mean, he has had incredible longevity because that freaking guy just works his ass off. He puts really good stuff out there. And so, you know, I mean, he's just, you know, he's Tony. And so the thing is, part of it is I really look at who's the what and then who's the who. And if you actually get to the point where you start resting on your laurels because you've gotten some waves on wind in your favor, that's the time to actually even look at, okay, let's make sure I'm doubling up here, because I actually think life is. You're on track, and then you get thrown off track, and then you kind of move yourself back on track. But some people, they've got momentum and then they just like. Because I'll look at a lot of my clients when their business was really working well and they were kicking ass and taking names, and then they'll start getting into some messes. And if you simply ask them some questions, kind of what you said earlier, I mean, Socratic selling is more, way more valuable than layering on all kinds of benefits. Simply ask people questions. If you actually inquire into people, well, what were you doing when life was working well for you? And they'll tell you. And what do you do? What are you not doing that you used to. What I've learned being in this business is a lot of times we're just a glorified reminder service. No kidding. You just have to remind. There's some humility right there. Remind people you used to do this and you stopped. You know, there are no gurus.

I don't even. I don't know. It's not offensive to me, but I just. The word is just an interesting word to me.

Oh, yeah. I don't like. I don't like the guru because I can't imagine, like, me, you know, even thinking of myself that way.

No, because it's almost like, there you go. I know something. I know that. And I think that's. That's at least one nail in the coffin when you think you know something.

You know, when we have a guest like you for a show like this, we put out promotional materials to tell you, come to listen. And here is just a taste of what you're going to get. And we use these things we call fascinations and teasers that are going to bring people in. Now, this is the one I've been waiting to ask you.

Uh.

Oh, yes. How can someone become a better leader, a better influencer, and a better lover?

I know this is the one everybody came here for.

So.

We'Ve been salting the communication. We've been getting to this point, and now the big. The payoff.

Well, here's the secret that I believe, and I've been yet to be convinced that I'm wrong. You have to start backwards, okay? First, to be a better lover in your home. Be a better communicator with your loved one, your. Whoever your partner is, your spouse, your kids. But let's just go with spouse or partner if you can. So I believe you have only so much bandwidth in your brain. And I'm just going to go off of my experience. This is just what I felt and how I came up with this idea was obviously I came from not just one divorce, but both my parents have been divorced twice. And so I've seen that. Right. And so when I got into the. You asked earlier, like, kind of, what was that pivot moment. The real pivot moment for me was when I decided to get married to my wife. And we both sat down and I've known her since I was five. So we've. We've literally known each other whole lives. She saw what my parents went through and what I went through, but we sat down and said, how are we not going to do that. Right. Like, my parents taught me a lot of things not to do, which I'm so grateful for. Right. It was very traumatic as a kid. But I joke with my parents at this point all the time. I've made a ton of money off of your divorce, so thank you. It's like a good thing. But I. So we sat down and we said, what are the systems, literally systems and processes we're going to put into our relationship so that doesn't happen. What are our core values that go beyond. I'll be honest with you, you know, or, you know, we love each other, so we started creating those. Well, as a entrepreneur, you've got a lot of stuff going on in your head. You only have bandwidth for so much. We talk about frustration, overwhelm. Well, that's where it comes from. If I'm not happy in my relationship, it is the underlining factor. Everything else I do. If I had a fight with my wife in the morning, and I'm sorry, while you guys talk about this enough in Genius Network, this is a big shock, but excuse my. For everybody, if I haven't had sex with my wife in over a week and we just had an argument, I go to the office and the underlying things going on in my brain that's taking up bandwidth. Even if I say, well, my office is my escape place or this is where I keep my focus, it's there. It underlines everything I do. If I'm not happy with my wife and I go to work, something small is going to piss me off with my team members. Something small is going to annoy me with a client. And so if I'm not happy there, then it affects everything else. So the opposite has to be true as well. So if I'm happy in my relationship, if I'm focused on creating a better relationship between my wife and my kids, then I'm going to not have to. That frees up so much more bandwidth to be creative, to be focused, to be in flow, to be attentive, to be present. And so if I can master that, then I can go and master this over here. And so I would start with lover. So focus on lover again. I'll go back to that saying, there's nothing will no success outside the home will compensate for failure in it. My first and most important relationship is that with my spouse. Even my kids know this. Since my kids were little, I would sit them down and say, I love you, I would die for you, I'd do anything for you. But your mom is Number one, you will never divide us. Because, like, now I'm an empty nester and it's just the two of us. So I needed to make sure that that was good for the rest of my life. Yeah, right. Like, I go to the end with her, not you. Like, you're going to find somebody else, abandon me. So that is the first piece. Then when it comes to all the other things, it makes it so much easier if you live in that space. I can an integrity. Walk into one of these offices and say, I am here to help you have a better relationship with yourself first, then your team members and then your patients. Well, yourself includes your spouse or your loved one or your partner. And so I can walk in integrity and say that. And they take me seriously. I talk freely about how much I enjoy and love my wife. I talk about also where I'm an idiot in my relationship, but I'm working on it. Like, we used to start off, we used to have marriage seminars that we would do that were based on, therefore hiring entrepreneurs. And I would start off every single one. I'd stand up on stage and I'd say, how many guys want to hear about the fight Shannon and I had last night? Or how many guys want to hear about our most recent argument? And the reason is because we're like normal people. We argue, but we understand the power of that. So if I can focus on lover, then I can focus on a relationship when it comes to my. And my influence and then leadership, it's just a backwards scenario.

That's fascinating. That's good. And then you mentioned then taking that and kind of now shifting it outward to your relationship with your. With your clients, with your.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

What's some.

As a leader, I. So one of the core values I have, my relationship is radical transparency. Okay. We don't have honesty. We have radical transparency. And my business ownership, I say the same thing with my business owner. So the first thing you have to be is be a hundred percent authentic with who you are, authentic with your team members, and love them enough to say no or to say goodbye. So what I mean by that is there's a lot of people that hold on to people in their businesses as employers, as employees, because they feel bad because they, you know, deep down that person's a good person.

Oh, yeah.

They've been here so long and yeah.

Yeah. However, they're not being honest and they're not being in integrity with that person. This is the test. I always say I do this from this stage. I say, doctors, if you walk in in the morning and you see Sally, and Sally walks by you and you say, good morning, Sally. And she says, good morning, doctor. And you think in your head, man, I wish you would quit. That is your cue that you're out of integrity and you need to let her go. It's not that she's doing anything wrong. Maybe Sally does want to come to work 10 minutes late. Maybe Sally does like the drama. Maybe Sally is somebody who is insubordinate. That doesn't make Sally wrong. And that's what we do as leaders, is we tend to make them wrong. But true leadership is saying, huh, you know what? They're not wrong for wanting those things. I want to help them not want those things, but they're not wrong. They're just not the right fit for our business, or we're not the right fit for them, so we love them into another job and love them enough to say goodbye. That starts. That's where all leadership starts, is that authenticity of that. And then you can build upon empathy. You can build upon having a good vision and culture for your business. But if you can't be authentic and real and create that safe environment, then it's never going to be, never going to work out the way you want.

The two areas to protect as an entrepreneur are your confidence and gratitude, because you will do things much more effectively once you have confidence in something. If you don't have confidence, then you have to rely on courage, which never really feels good. Confidence feels good. Courage just is like you got to kind of go through it. But you can have all the money, all the relationships, all the access. But if you don't have gratitude, you can be a very miserable human. And what you were saying reminded me of this. When I was speaking at Ryan Dice event a few months ago, I asked the audience, I said, how many of you in the room are worth a million dollars? You know, a few people raised their hand. I'm like, is anyone here worth $10 million? And I think, like, one person raised their hand. Anyone here worth a billion dollars? I said, how many of you would like to be a millionaire? And everyone raised their hand. And I said, well, how many of you in the room would like to be a millionaire? If you're not already, I'm asking you, all of you. Okay. Yeah, okay. So what I said, I said, well, how many of you. Would anyone here give me your eyeballs for a million bucks? Would anyone here just hand over your eyeballs for a million dollars? What about 10 million? Anyone give me your eyeballs for a million bucks? 100 million. What about lop off your thumbs? Anyone lop off their thumbs for a million bucks? Or maybe cut out your tongue or, you know, just. What's that?

10 million.

10 million you'll cut off your tongue. Shit, man, I'd almost do it if I wasn't so. More now I got a knife. But the point is, like, all these people want to be millionaires, you know, they want to have all this stuff. And you're walking around with assets on your body, in your life that people just take for granted. That the fact that you can see and that you can hear and that you can talk and that you can eat. And it's that whole, you know that proverb which is, you know, he who has their health, he or she who has their health has a thousand dreams. He does not have their health, has only one. And if you're, you have aspirations, you're sitting here right now, you're able to do the things you're doing because you're not laid up in a hospital bed, you know, and I, eight days ago, prior was on a 14 day liquid diet. I didn't eat food for like 14 days and I'd never done anything like that in my entire life. I probably lost like eight pounds in the last three weeks. And basically the first day was the most difficult. The second day was pretty difficult. But on the first day I just got a whole sense of gratitude. Like, I can't believe this, you know, in my soft, cushiony life that I have and I have my challenges like anyone else, it's no problem. Totally. What it made me realize is like, man, I mean, what, how painful it must be to just like, I wake up every day and I can eat mostly what I want, you know, it's not like, am I going to eat today? So I want Mexican food, do I want Chinese food? You know, and it just got me in touch with how many millions of children go to bed every single night starving, you know, and how painful that is. And when you get in touch with gratitude, it actually makes you appreciate everything you have that much more, but it actually gives you the ability to do something about it. I mean, Kevin talking about his Surf n Serve, if he didn't have gratitude, he wouldn't be doing that shit. I mean that like value creation and contribution and being of service actually comes from a place of appreciation. I would even say generosity is gratitude in action.

Yep.

When we're generous, it's actually the activity throw them. So I was saying generosity is gratitude in Action. So that's what's so great when we're face to face to poverty. And some of these folks, you just talked about the pain of hunger. I mean, just to get an idea, they huff glue, they'll pay 5 cents.

To get a coffee cup full of.

Glue, and they'll huff glue to get themselves high enough. Not because they want the high, because they want to forget that they. They're starving to death to get rid of the pain. And so, like, that's what, you know, I say when you give, I've been in the presence of that, where you hand that person food and you realize they haven't probably eaten in the last few days. And like you said, all of your problems disappear. And then I'm in awe. Like, it's a funny, selfish thing because what you're talking about is so great.

I'm in awe of my, of the.

Possibility of my own generosity, like at that moment. And then Jennifer and I were looking back at the photos, we're like, my gosh, like, we created this and these kids are smiling and laughing, even if it's just for a few days. And so our moonshot is like, how can we do that longer term? But really, generosity being that gratitude of the abundance that we have and sharing it with people who have no way of paying us back. Yeah. And I'm a huge believer in abundance. I truly believe there's enough of everything to go around, especially if we're generous with what we have and share that. And to your point, if health is everything, how many, how many other cancer survivors, warriors in the room? Oh, that's unusual. Super unusual. Anyone in your family? Yeah, it is. A lot of people ask if it changes, change who I was. It didn't. I already was a happy person, but it gave me a bigger depth of.

Gratitude and to understand that every day.

Is a gift and especially in this country, you know, we do have first world problems here pretty much.

And when you've seen what you've seen.

So what if we have to go.

Around an accident or something?

On the one on one, we have cars, you know, and we have, we can eat in our car and probably talk on our phone too. So. Yeah, yeah. Like Lee Brower, who's a buddy of mine from Coach, he said, you know, he said, how many of you hate to take out the trash? You know, a handful of people raised their hand. He's like, you know, do you know how many people in different parts of the world would love to have someone come to their home or where they live? And pick up the trash and take it away. He's like, you don't have to take out the trash, you get to take out the trash. He goes, what? I mean, it's a fricking luxury for somebody and the point is not to get all touchy feely or whatever. I mean, I know a lot of people are going through their own private silent battles and life is difficult. I mean, look, everyone has their own shit and their own crosses to bear at all different times. It's just as much as you can keep yourself in the mindset of gratitude and appreciation, you're simply going to be a better entrepreneur. And when you're in that particular state, you're going to make more money. And I think one of the best ways to help the poor is and not be one of them. And secondly, people that say money can't buy happiness are idiots. Because I buy happiness all the time with money. I mean, there's all kinds of shit. I like nice dinners, it makes me happy. I like going to the movies, that shit makes me happy. I like staying in nice hotels, it makes me happy. So the people that say that money can't buy happiness haven't given enough of it away. Because even if you're a miserable person with a lot of money, I mean, I've had people that have been really struggling in my ability to help them medically, education wise out of challenges, access to people they can talk to has helped make their lives better. And so, I mean, there's so much you can do with money. So it's not the money, it's what it gives you access to and how you do it, you know, the experiences that it can give you. So I'm all for capitalism, you know, I'm a capitalist and you know, Hayek says the biggest problem with capitalism is it was named by its enemies. And so capitalism in its purest form is simply collaboration between individuals exchanging money for value. And we live in a world where there's a lot of anti capitalist behavior and people will attack you because you're actually doing. And there is crony capitalism, there's corporatism, that is sometimes called capitalism, and there's bad aspects of everything. But most entrepreneurs that I know are really hardworking people adding value in the world, just doing good stuff. Most entrepreneurs I know are not evil, exploitive people, they're just good people working their asses off trying to, to do stuff. And so anyway, thank you. That's the Genius network for sure. Totally. Yeah, totally. Thank you. But it's interesting to see because there's so much of that, too. That's, you know, one of the questions I'm going to ask you. What are some of the mistakes that people, you know, make in business? One of the things is the. I think one mistake is not preparing yourself for success. You know, most people don't become successful as entrepreneurs. I've asked me. Majority don't. But when you do, you literally will find that you have people that are incredibly supportive of you and then people that you thought were supportive of you aren't supportive if you're surpassing what they perceive their thing is. Because I don't know, there's probably many causes to this, but I think it makes them look at their own lack of success or, oh, you're doing something. And it's bizarre how much people shift. And so one of the things I think about a lot is that being successful as an entrepreneur is not just being strategic and making smart decisions and the ability to create value, get paid for it, be a great marketer, communicate what it is you're doing. I think one of the attributes of successful entrepreneurs is a tolerance to all the crap that exists because you got to have thick skin. I mean, there will be a point in time where people that you thought, where your allies are really your enemies. They don't want to see you be successful and they will give you their opinions about what you should or should not do. And so part of it is being able to know what to pay attention to and what to ignore, what's relevant and what is irrelevant. So how do you think about, like, how did you go through that transition? Because there's a lot to be learned.

I think the number one thing for me is maybe, I think a little bit differently than others. But when you marry your lifetime partner, they've got to be on board 100% of what your dreams are, or vice versa, whatever it is. But the support that I get. I can be me Jo every day of the week. I normally swear when I say that, but I can be Anthony Amos every day of the week. I don't have.

I would be cussing right now if your kids were not in the.

I cuss in front of my kids. I'm sorry to say that, but yeah, we're from Australia, but it's just one of those things where, yeah, I'm a little bit crazy and I love getting out and having a few drinks with guys because it brings out the best in people. If you sort of say a little bit reserved, it's not like off the menu, but it's just really getting other people relaxed and talking more what they would normally do if they didn't just have a couple of beers. But you know, that's sort of. I mean, the things that we do aren't normal. I mean, we do embarrassing things and we've all got a similar sense of humour and it's a lot of fun. But you can't have that stability if you don't have that support at home. Because when you walk in those doors and it's open arms, you know, this is great. I know it's a tough dodo.

You've got to have that.

If you don't have that, then I don't think I could have done it. I really don't.

You know the classic think and grow rich from, you know, Napoleon Hill. He had his 31 causes of failure and one of them was wrong selection of a mate.

Right.

And I think when it comes to entrepreneurs, yeah, there's a lot to be said of it's a tough life for someone that is not an entrepreneur, that doesn't get the drive and the ambition. And I think entrepreneurs are misunderstood. A lot of people think all they care about is money. And frankly, most of the entrepreneurs that I hang out with, and I know money is important because you need money in order to run a business, but it's not the cause of what it is they're doing. I mean, many entrepreneurs I know that are very successful honestly don't care all that much about money as long as they have it. Now, if they don't have it, nothing else functions. So it holds a very important context. But these are people that are dreamers and they're trying to make stuff up and make it real and dream it into being. I mean, when I sit and think about your dog grooming business, I mean, at what point did it occur to you that this is a good idea? I mean, you probably weren't a little kid saying, you know, when I grow up, I want to wash hundreds of thousands of dogs. Seems like hard work to me. I don't know if I'd want to wash a single dog.

Well, it's funny because I literally washed dogs day in, day out for six or seven years that funded the company. So I learned the business from the ground level all the way through to the high end level, like selling our master program within 18 months. We sold every single state and territory within 18 months. It is just unheard of. But I think when you learn and grow the business and, you know, not raising any capital but raising the money through your hard work and pouring it back into the company and living on baked beans, but still growing the company that does something to you inside. It gives you a real strength of knowing that as you get into the next venture, I know what it's like to be like that. So when I relate to my franchisees, when we start selling franchises, I've done what you're about to do. I know every angle that you're going to go through in your business and I'm going to be able to help you with those particular decisions. And when we're talking about the partnership, the hardest thing when selling a franchise to some of the men back in Australia, the wives are like, I don't want my husband to be a dog washer. He's not a dog washer. He's an entrepreneur. He's getting out there out of the rat race and wanting to be a successful person. I don't. And that's what I was talking about. But the other husbands that came in the door, how was your day, honey?

How many dogs did you do today?

Yeah, you broke the record that difference between, oh, I don't want my husband to be a dog washer, how am I going to tell my friends my husband's a dog washer? That's when you've got to align yourself with the right partner to know that when you do come in the door, they're happy that you did one more dog that you did than the day before. That's the type of thing where I'm coming from with that.

That's so true. Speaking in my own life of many relationships that I've gone through, and thankfully I'm dear friends with most of the relationships I've had in the past. I'm talking intimately. I mean, I know I have all kinds of relationships, personally and professionally. Int it is alignment. I mean, if you do not have alignment in any sort of relationship, it's going to be very short lived. There's going to be a lot of tension. And there still is. I mean, because I'll tell you what I tell people. Successful entrepreneurship is really about developing a tolerance to stuff. Because the stuff that would have killed me in the very beginning of my business happens on a daily basis today.

And I'm like, whatever.

So I've built up just a tolerance to nonsense, you know, just like crap that happens. But that's part of the game.

Well, it's funny that you use that word because in the book I talk about congruency. So the first thing with me is I've Got to a point where I just. I instantly know whether I'm congruent with somebody, I feel it, or you just have a little bit of a conversation.

Oh, geez.

That feeling that you really like that person, it's congruent. Whatever this value system is, we don't even know what it is, right? But it feels good. And then when you know it feels good, I like to. To add as much value as I can first. So if I get in there first and go not expecting anything other than we could be friends from that point of view or making an effort for our friendship. This is my favorite part. I call it, like, the triad of how it works for me. But if I've become friends or business partners with that person, like Kevin, I get out of the bed in the morning and we're about to go and have coffee at lunch.

Like, I can't wait to go and see this guy. I'm so excited.

And I get all ramped up and, you know, excited, because when you know that I actually felt like that coming here today, I felt, like, so excited that the kids can tell you, like, and this lovely lady, of course, how excited we were to get here and to be broken down the day before, not getting here. And then we thought, well, Wednesday's actually a better day. It just worked out perfect. But it's that feeling that you get so goddamn excited just to turn up and be in the presence of that person. That's when you know you've nailed it.

That's when you know you've done it, you know? Cause I used to get all giddy about, like, going to a rock concert when I was a kid, you know, going to, well, not just rock, but any sort of concert, although just the sheer excitement. And that's what really great business deals, I think, do for entrepreneurs. Just like sports, which I never really got into sports. I had a Little League coach that ruined my liking of sports because he would force me to hold a baseball bat in a certain way that I couldn't hit the ball. So it ruined my liking of sports. So it's interesting how influences affect you growing up. But I see a lot of entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs, they're corporate athletes, which is a term my buddy Tony Schwartz says, and they want to win. And winning comes in different things and different levels of excitement. But part of success as an entrepreneur, aside from, obviously, strategy and a sound business model and the ability to keep your act together, is just massive enthusiasm for what it is you. You bring to the table.

Oh, my God, you're speaking My language right now, because if you strategically put together, I want to be friends with that person to get that it never happened. I've never been that way anyway. But I just know my brother was very much that way inclined and that's how we sort of butt our heads a lot, is that he'd worked out strategically how to get to that person to get that end result. And I was always uncomfortable with those sorts of deals because you're really looking out for yourself first. But if you genuinely believe that that person has got some sort of value system similar to you, then show them that you're good and you can do something to get them excited. And let's be friends. Let's see how this, how this could work out. I love doing it. I got chills thinking about it. I love doing that stuff.

That's awesome.

Well, okay, so here's your book, how to Catch a Shark. And you did this with Kevin Harrington. How much did he actually contribute? Because Kevin really doesn't do much work.

Well, we actually. He did a story on Donald Trump when he was in Donald Trump's office and put a deal together and he. We did a lot of work with recording. So we recorded it and then sort of typed it. And my beautiful wife over here and a great, dear friend of ours, Bonnie Crandall, edited the book and pieced it all together and we've got our publisher, Tara.

Tara.

Richard, of course. But we had so much fun putting this together because Kevin and I have developed a really awesome relationship and I think he vicariously lives through me a little bit now with him being sort of on the street, straight and narrow. And I'll offer. Rhea, you have one for me, buddy. Alright, you get out, I'll get out there. But we've got. I think he's got such a. Not a lot of people know this, but he's got like a kid like, sense of humour.

Oh, totally.

He's just funny as hell. So in even the most serious situations and we're at a meeting, I've got probably a little bit like he sort of. My attention span isn't that good.

Yeah.

So I'll just sort of sit there and send Kevin a text. Kevin will always read his phone no matter what meeting in the. So I'll send him a text, something hilarious of, you know, who we're talking right now, you can see him go. But I think that's the type of thing you've got to do with relationships like that when you're in a. You're there because you've said you would be, but you don't really want to be there and you've got to make light of the situation sometimes to really sort of get through it.

Oh well, totally. I mean, one thing about I can usually gauge the value of relationships, man and woman or friends or whatever, just based on how much they laugh together. If you see people that cannot laugh together, then there's a good chance that they're probably not.

Wow, that's really interesting. I instantly got what you've just said, but I've never looked at it like that before.

Yeah, well, if you're at a restaurant and you see a couple that's just sitting there and they're just not really even talking to each other, well, there could be times they're just arguing, but for the most part you can pretty much gauge that. Do they have fun together or not? Because I have this thing I came up with years ago to try to describe the marketing systems that I created that are robotic. Using the 24 hour free recorded message that sift sorts and screens people that want to get information about how to choose a carpet cleaner or how to use a sports supplement or pick a category is a far easier, more robotic way to get people information than doing face to face selling. So I started calling anything that would use replicatable, canon, clonable sort of marketing systems as elf marketing. I started saying you could have an elf business which is easy, lucrative and fun, or you can have a half business which is hard, annoying, lame and frustrating. And so if you're going to go out and develop a business, you want to make it as elf as humanly possible. Now in my life I actually look at human beings that way. Is this person easy, lucrative and fun? Or is this person hard, annoyed, lame and frustrating? Or in some cases hard, annoying, lucrative and frustrating. Because not all money is created equal. There's some money that is just painful and there are some people to work with that they're just not fun to work with. And so kind of what you were saying to earlier, I've never approached relationships as let me figure out what I'm going to get from this person. I mean, I don't ask anyone to do anything for me if I can't create value for them first. And I really come from a try to be gentle, generous, try to be useful. And I don't even say try. I actually believe I am. You just show up and you just are useful and if you cannot be, then don't show up. I mean, what reason do you have to do anything? If you can't bring that to the table. And so I think part of you, because the moment I first met you, you're just a very likable, very friendly guy. And that's.

Did you hear that?

Yeah.

Now again, they may experience something completely different than me. But the thing is that's very hard to fake doing that consistently. I mean, some people can, they'll have their spill, they'll do that sort of stuff. But for the most part, being a generous, caring, useful, value creating individual is not a shtick. That's who you are, that's what you do. And if you adopt that as a way of life, I mean that's how you develop things. Because in the beginning, when you have not created any results, when you just have a dream and idea, the thing you have to go on is just your caring, your enthusiasm, your wanting to be a contributor. And that's going to get you much further. You can read every negotiation book on the planet or read how to manipulate people, but that's going to be very short lived. I mean, it really genuinely comes out down to how caring and how useful are you. And that's a far better attribute and way of being, to be and to develop than anything else I've ever figured out.

I really appreciate it. It's a very nice thing to say. I feel very good about myself right now.

Good, good. Well, let's try to take that down a little bit. What makes a successful producing entrepreneur? And I'll let Marie do the honors. Ah, gosh.

What makes a successful entrepreneur? I'm not sure that somebody will know that they're an entrepreneur from the beginning. I think they will have a desire to make a difference to other people's lives and you know, they'll see that, you know, that something's frustrating them. There's a gap in the markets. They feel they can do it better themselves and they'll try to, you know, fill that, fill that gap in the market and you know, that's, you know, and then, and then they almost become an entrepreneur by, you know, by default. You know, I don't think, I don't think you can sort of set out to become an entrepreneur. I think you've got, you've got to set out to make it, make a difference to other people's lives.

Well, what are the business principles that have stood out for you that just have worked really well for Virgin and for even building any sort of organization or cause?

Well, again, I don't necessarily think of them as business principles and I think the word you Know, I think the word business, it becomes the business. But what you're doing is you're, you're, you know, painting a picture. You're trying to. You're trying to create. Create something to make a difference to other people's lives. You have a blank canvas and you're filling in every little bit of that canvas to get every single little detail right. And if that canvas sings out at you at the end and it's a beautiful picture, your business is going to be successful. If bits of the canvas are not quite right, your business may fail. So if you set up a. If you set up to change people's lives, you've got to get every single little detail right. You've got to make sure that the people that you're working with 100% believe in what you're trying to do. And you've got to make sure that what you're trying to do is worthwhile spending your time on. And the end of the day, you want to be sure that the people's lives you've affected, you've really affected them and benefited them. And if you get all that right, hopefully you'll be able to pay the bills at the end of the year.

Well, I know you've started so many businesses, Richard. I mean, you have, I think, 300 some companies right now and so many entrepreneurs. I work with a lot of entrepreneurs who are startups, who are in their growth phase, who are even in their legacy phase. And if you're in a startup mode, I mean, you just talked about this painting the canvas. That's really incredible. Is there, like, one tangible piece of advice that you wish that you had when you were just starting your first business?

I mean, the absolute key and like an old stuck gramophone record that explains existed in my day is how good you are with people. And if you, you know, if you genuinely care about people, if you can surround yourself with people that, you know, genuinely excited about what you're doing, if you, you know, if you can draw out the best in people, if you're, you know, if you're good at, you know, praise, lavishing praise on people and not criticizing your people and, and inspiring your people, you know, that's, that's something you just have to do from day one. You know, never use the I word. I mean, it's, you know, you're a team. We're doing this, we're doing that. Just never, ever, you know, let it sort of center on yourself and just be a great, great leader of people. And, you know, if you can do that from day one. Even if you've got one other in person working with you or two other people working with you, then you know, you can enjoy the good times together. But there will be bad times and those that your people will pull, pull around for you. They'll, they'll work day and night to try to, you know, keep whatever it is you're creating alive and make sure that you make sure it survives. So the number one lesson and is be a great people person. That's great.

And I got a quick follow up.

And the follow up would be, so now you've started to make it as a business owner. So now we work with a lot of seven figure, eight figure, nine figure business owners.

What did you do to take it.

To really the whole next level?

Well, I think the next stage is to be a great delegator and not try to do everything yourself. Try to find people who are better than you all the time. Try to find people are better than you to put you, put you out of business effectively. So you know, whatever you're spending all your day doing, try to find someone who's better than you to do that, to replace you at it so that you can go off and think about the next big picture. An entrepreneur is not a manager. I mean, an entrepreneur is somebody who is great at conceiving ideas, starting, starting ideas, building ideas, but then handing over to really good managers to manage the businesses. You know, the moment you've got more than one business, you can't be hands on doing everything. You know, if on the other hand you are, you know, you're not really a great entrepreneur, but you're a really good manager, you know, then fine, just immerse yourself in the business business, you know, worry about every, every detail. Don't worry about having to, you know, move on to other businesses. So it slightly depends on what kind of person you are. You know, in a strange way, Steve Jobs was more a manager than an entrepreneur. I mean, it sounds slightly strange to say that because, you know, but I mean he, he was somebody that, you know, focused on, you know, on, you know, almost specifically on, on one subject matter, you know, immersed himself in that business. He second guessed everybody with everything. No bit of artwork could go out without his approval. And he built a formidable business, but pretty specific business in one area. And you know, and it worked very well for him. But, but you know, if you want to be a true entrepreneur and you know, build a lot of different businesses, you've got to be a great delegator.

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