Can FITNESS Help You Make More Money in Sales? ft. Derek Toshner | Ep67

If you want it bad enough, you will figure out what it takes to get there. Sometimes you've gone to all the seminars, you've listened to everything, you've trained your body, you've trained your mind to do it. You just gotta want it and go do it and get out of the way and let your body perform to what it's capable of doing.

Appreciate you getting on, dude. For those watching, welcome again to the Insurance Insiders Podcast. Um, got my buddy Derek who is training me. For those of them following this crazy health— people ask why I do these events and they say I'm broken, which I agree with fully. And then, you know, everybody thinks I'm nuts. And, you know, uh, last year was, was the first big year doing anything, man. And I, uh, I did some cool things, but I didn't do quite what I wanted. And I didn't— I learned I didn't quite follow the plan. Even though I yell at people about prepping and training and doing all the things to be ready for what you say you want in life. And I found out real quick I have to be a little more ready this year than last year, man. So, uh, appreciate the last, I don't know, 6 months or 8 months or whatever since we've been talking.

It's been—

yeah, been a learning experience, dude. It's been fun.

That's cool. You've been training hard and consistent.

I have been working my ass off, bro. I have been working my ass off.

Yeah, I feel good about your fitness level and where you're at. Do you? Yeah, I do.

Yeah. Okay, that's good. I don't see—

I don't know what y'all see.

Like, when I go to the doctor, I've been working— I told you I started going to a new doctor to figure out all the inside stuff that's wrong. His exterior, people are like, you look great, and inside is a whole different animal, right? Um, and she, uh, she recently— she put me on a pretty strict and disciplined, like, regimen of supplements and things to fix stuff. And, uh, every time I go, she's like 'You sure it's okay? Are you sure you're taking all the stuff? Are you sure it's not too much?' And she's always coming from like a negative way, you know. And a couple months ago I was like, 'Why do you always ask me that way? Like, it's like you're trying to let me— you're giving me the door to be like, no, it's too much. Like, why are you doing that?' And she says, uh, 'Because you're the only client I have that listens to everything I say.' Yeah, I was like, no shit.

So that's awesome.

It'd be an interesting perspective, man, to hear your, your, your take on, on people trying to do big things, because a lot of people talk and you're one of them doing it, you know?

Yeah, but that's what it takes, you know? It's like you can't be an expert at any— at everything, right? And, and, uh, I think when you are an expert in an area, then you're more apt to listen to experts in other areas because you're like, look, I, I focus on this, my attention's here. I know a little bit about my car, but I'm not going to pretend to tell you I'm going to fix any kind of problem with it, right? So I'm going to listen to my mechanic. I'm going to listen to a guy that I trust. And I appreciate that. And I appreciate that of you. You know, you're an expert in your area and you're like, okay, Tosh isn't an expert in this area. I'm going to trust his advice. I'm going to do what he says. And that's what you do. And that's how you get good at multiple things. Yeah, it's true.

I would me, what's the background, dude? I don't know, obviously a lot, and I've chatted a little bit over time, but every time I talk to you, I'm like, this dude does a lot more than I know. You just got back from a crazy trip, and I think your background's professional. I just want to hear more, dude.

Yeah, yeah, I guess, uh, a quick overview. I, I always wanted to be in the fitness industry. Job shadowed a personal trainer when I was 12. And so, yeah, dead serious. So yeah, I was studying, studying fitness at a very young age and applying what I was, uh, learning to my own body. I was an athlete. I always thought I would wrestle in college. I came from this great pedigree of wrestling. Our high school hadn't lost a conference championship in 34 years. Um, yeah, I know, it's wild. And, and so they were on ESPN the Magazine and everything. My coach was highlighted. And, and, uh, ended up getting good at track and field. Uh, I did, did well at wrestling in the, in our state championships, um, but, you know, was even better at track and field. And, um, ended up running track in college, went from ironically a dynasty of wrestling, never losing a conference championship, to a dynasty in track and field. I went to, uh, actually a D3 school, UW-La Crosse, but we didn't lose a national championship the entire time I was there. We four-peated, actually. We won indoor track and outdoor track NCAA titles my freshman, sophomore, junior, senior year, um, even won cross country one year, which is called the Triple Crown. And so I, you know, growing up through that, I got to see what it takes to build a dynasty and to build a winning organization and a winning team. And I knew what it took to win. I think winning is a skill that you develop, and when you can see it, and when you go to something that's not a winning organization, you're like, oh yeah, there's a stark difference here, right? Yeah. And so out of college, uh, signed a contract with a track club. We were sponsored by Nike. To continue on for a couple more years. I ran at the USA World Team Trials in '03 and '05, the Olympic trials in '04. I was never really— I was good enough to be in the race, but, you know, never really good enough to, to make the big show, right? Um, and, uh, and yeah, so I coached a couple years at another D3 organization. I was like, wow, is this— this is how athletes act? Like, this is— this is not what I'm using. Coach track after Yeah, yeah, yeah. I moved, I moved back home and, and a local college said, hey, we heard you moved back home, where are you going to train? And I was like, well, I was hoping to train at your college. And he goes, well, if you're training here, you can coach here too. And so yeah, I coached the 400-meter, uh, crew for— and the hurdle crew for, uh, a competitive organization that, you know, that I ran at in college. And, and it was just a stark difference., you know, between kind of the militant, like, look, you're here to either get better or get cut kind of mentality to this kind of like wild and crazy, unorganized, you know, undisciplined group. And, yeah, that was my first kind of visual of, of, of reality.

Before that, all you knew was the success side. High school, college, winners.

You win. Yeah. Winners win. Yeah, and just, yeah, the mentality that that took, you know, and we could go into detail, we could talk for hours just on that. But, uh, I ended up, um, you know, I was— I moved back home and, uh, the high school that I went to, they were on me, you know. Once I got done with my own track career, I stopped coaching at that college and, you know, just got into business for a while. And then my kids were kind of getting old enough to be in a track program. I'm like, okay, I should probably get some eyes on this program. And we— they were just god-awful. They were horrible. It was, it was the worst sport in the school's history. The girls had never won a conference championship in the history of the school. 53 years of women's track and field and they hadn't won once. And the boys won one time in 1979. And this is the organization I came into. It was, it was horrible. And I like the first year I was there, my wife came to track practice one day. She's like, where's track practice? I was like, like, this is it, this is it. She's like, what are they doing, you know? And, uh, and, uh, so I'm like, yeah, it took, uh, it took 4 years to develop that team. In the last 4 years, the boys have taken 2nd, 2nd, 1st, and 1st in the conference, and the girls won their first conference championship this year. So we, uh, yeah, we swept it this year.

So you're still coaching?

Yeah, I do. Yeah, yeah, my daughter was a senior this year, so, um Yeah, and my son is a freshman. And, uh, yeah, it's just like, I— you figure out what it takes to win and the discipline and the organization, you— and you just start teaching it, right? And instilling it in these kids. It took me 4 years to kind of weed out the old system, right? And no offense to the seniors, but I kind of had to graduate their attitudes. I had to graduate their mindsets and, and just like focus on the fresh— do what I could with, with the seniors and the juniors, and then but really focus in on the freshmen. Like, this is the way we do things. This is the way we think. This is the way we act. And it took 4 years to develop a program that was competitive. So dang. Yeah, yeah. But now we swept it. My boys and my girls won the conference title. It was like— and we just trounced everybody too. It wasn't even close, which was awesome. Really? Yeah, yeah.

Oh shit, you've had some success in business too, right?

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's why I'm on the call, right, in relation to, to what you do. Um, in college Uh, well, I should— I gotta back way up probably. My parents did— they kind of like dabbled in Amway when I was— oh, no way! Yeah, got it. Yeah, yeah. So, so I knew like the direct sales model or multi-level marketing, like I knew direct sales and network marketing. And, you know, my parents weren't successful at it, but like I knew people were, you know. And like I said, when you, when you learn how to become a national champion, you know what it takes to be the best. And, uh, in college, this, this supplement company came my way, and I was like, oh, you know, it was a direct sales supplement company, and I was like, yeah, whatever. Well, I tried the products, I love the products, and, you know, I was kind of a little— I'm a supplement junkie. I've been taking supplements ever since I was a little kid. I think I've been taking vitamins since I could chew. And, um, you know, I was spending money at GNC, and I'm thinking, okay, well, if I can like sell, sell these products, make enough to pay for my products, that makes sense, right, as a broke college kid. And I was like, you know, I don't have a time for a real job either. I'm, I'm going to college full-time, I'm running track, right? Like, if I could do kind of like an as-I-go business, right, and start building this thing out, maybe I can make some money. And so my first year made like $3,500, you know. This is a college kid, like, it's something.

$500 a month selling pills, legal pills, right?

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And, um, yeah, got out of college and it was just a fit. I mean, it was in the, the nutrition industry, it was supplementation. I love the products, I love the company. It was, it was all about becoming a better leader, becoming a better person. I love the culture and the men. I, you know, and no offense to the ladies, a lot of direct sales is ladies, um, or in that industry at least. But there were, there are some really good men that were leaders in the organization, so I just really took to it. I grew with it. And, uh, it was, it was a challenge because I wasn't naturally gifted at it, but it was in my wheelhouse. It was, it was what I love to do— fitness, nutrition, supplementation, right? But like networking and network marketing wasn't really in my wheelhouse. And so I had to learn. It was— and going to a, uh, like a— from, from that Dynasty Wrestling School and a Dynasty Track School, you're there every day to get better or get pushed out by, you know, the person behind you, right? Yeah. And, and so one of the things I learned in direct sales, I'd look in the mirror and I'd be like, Derek, the reason you don't have what other people have is because you're not that person yet. You have to become that person, right? And, and that's the toughest thing to do is look at yourself in the mirror and say you don't— you need to speak, you need to speak better, you need to be a better leader, right? You need to work harder, you need to figure out different ways to meet people, um, and, uh, and connect with people and build an organization. And so it was this huge growth period huge growth period. So I built that company from 2003 when I was a junior in college all the way to 2019. Um, I think in the— really? Yeah. And in that industry, they say the average time it takes to reach the top level, I think, is a decade, right? Okay. And I was, I was a little bit behind average. I think it took me 12 years to reach the top level in the company. Um, but yeah, built a $100 million organization.

And good for you.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, really? How many did you have? Did you like find other people to sell to, or is it all through your distribution? How'd that work?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the key is the team out, right? Exactly.

$10.99, $10.99 independent. Yep, that's the same thing I do.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, you have to, right? Like, it— I can talk to a few thousand people, right? But like, if, if I could talk to you and you could talk to a few thousand people and I can get an override off of that, right? Like, hello, right? Like, you start learning very quickly, like, I can only talk to so many people, right? And if I want to build an organization, I need team players that can build organizations too, right? And so, yeah, you just, you just see who wants to build it, right? And, and who wants to, you know, take it to a high level and who wants to do it part-time. And, you know, you come alongside of them and help build them where they're at. And sometimes you have to leapfrog into people you've never met before, right?

100%.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, built a whole organization. But what was interesting is, you know, it was, it was part-time. It was, it was always part-time for me. It was you know, fairly casual at first and then became more serious. But I was taking what I was learning and I was applying it to building my own business, my fitness business. So kind of brick-and-mortar kettlebell studio. Through that, became a master kettlebell instructor. There's only 15 masters through Strong First. No way. Yeah, in the world. And so, yeah, it took time. Like I said, you know, you just figure out what it takes to win. You just keep moving up. But, um, yeah, built, built that company. And so there was a point where I'm like, okay, I have this fitness business that is going really, really well, and it expanded to other locations. And, and then I have the supplement business that is running on the side. And I'm thinking, God, like, I just honestly, the one thing I, I needed to get better at was be a better manager. And, uh, And I loved— I was ready to like step into that role. I love the day-to-day. I love the grind of being a trainer. I love the grind of like working with the end customer. And I wasn't ready to kind of be that, you know, that leader, that role model, and, and just trust other people to run my— basically run my business. Well, kind of essentially employ myself out of a job, right?

Yeah.

And, um, and so I ended up just selling that business. I owned, I owned, uh, one of the properties that one of them was on. I sold out of two of them and then, uh, and then finally sold out the last one. But I owned the commercial property that they worked out of, and so became a landlord and just ran the supplement company. And, uh, interestingly enough, 5 years later, the supplement company said, do not pass go, do not collect $200, and they canned us all. They took everything in-house. I couldn't believe it. I was devastated. Devastated, man.

It was all the clients, all that, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That happens a lot, dude. It does. I don't know if a lot is the right word, but I hear about it every year. Someone in some line of multi-level stuff gets whacked. Um, people have built some big things. That's tough. Yeah. What year was that?

Uh, 2019.

Got it. And got it. Got it. Got it.

Yep. Yeah. 2019. So yeah, it was, it was, uh, devastating. Honestly, it shook me to the core because I, I, I grew up with the company, you know?

Yeah.

Uh, you know, you development and the learning you do about life in your early 20s and 30s. Um, yeah, it kind of sets you up for life and it's, and I've just seen all these legacy companies, you know, you look at the, the Mary K's, the Tupperware or Mary K's of the world and Tupperware of the world and the, Avons and the Amways, you're like, dude, I'm gonna ride this puppy into the sunset, you know, and it's gonna be tens of millions, right? And, um, yeah, we got on a conference call and in 7 minutes, 17 years worth of work was gone. Damn. And I had sold— like I said, I sold my fitness business, signed a do not compete with those guys. Yeah, I was like, so everything I had built to that point was gone. All I had was a commercial property, you know, which I, you know, had a payment on, you know, I'm taking in rents, but that was like all the income I had. And, uh, so, and let me know if I'm just like going off on a tangent here. There's lots of stuff we could talk about.

You could do you, bro. I don't have any rules on this one. All right, what up, insurance agents? If you're looking for a roadmap on how to win in this industry, check out the book I wrote about a year ago, Do More Now, Get Better Later. Check out the reviews here somewhere. My team's putting them on. I'm getting tons of great feedback about all the people it's helped. Appreciate those of y'all that have bought it. Appreciate all the reviews that are going out. If you're new to following me or the industry, check out the book and get it in your hands now.

Yeah, totally devastated. And my mom— I have, I have a tough mom, but thank God I have a tough mom. I mean, I went over to her house, I, you know, in my 30s, like crying like, what in the world just happened to me in my life, you know? Uh, and just expecting some kind of consoling from her, and she's like, well, put your work boots back on, get back to work. Literally what my mom told me is suck it up, suck it up, no excuses. I'm like, wow, thanks, Mom, appreciate that. You got these—

I carry, I carry these shirts. You ever seen this?

Don't be a bitch. Yeah, awesome. I need one. I'll send you one.

Send me a shirt, guys. I need one. I got you.

Mom, my grandfather was a tough farmer, tough farmer and cowboy, and you know, just didn't take shit and just like, just get back to work. Like, Mom, I just lost 17 years worth of work, it's gone. And she didn't care, she's like, get back to work. Um, but I, I was pretty devastated and I just, I didn't know, I had to like mourn through that process. I had to like mentally process it through it. And a hobby of mine that I've been doing since college, I took rock climbing as a 1-credit class in college, and I had to take something active, a couple one-credit classes. So I took rock climbing and, uh, it's always been a hobby of mine, passion of mine. And, uh, I threw myself at it because when you're climbing, all you can think about is climbing, right? Like it, yeah. Don't unfocus here cuz you, you can kill yourself. And, and so for my, I, I don't want, I don't know if I'm ADD. I'm probably, I'm not, definitely not diagnosed ADD, but, uh, Like, it was— it's the one thing where my brain could calm down and not focus on my hemorrhaging bank account and just focus on climbing and turn off the noise. Turn off the noise. Yeah. And, um, yeah, I guess, you know, looking back, it was probably an escape, you know, from reality a little bit. Um, you know, I didn't turn to like drugs or alcohol or anything like that, but I turned to like being a dirtbag. You know, and just living out of my car and climbing things. And, you know, my family's over here like, what are we doing? We're just going to let this dwindle to nothing, or are we going to, like, get back after something or what? And I'm just— I've been a big believer my whole life, and I just— I needed to find my passion again, right? I was really kind of stifled and my energy, my enthusiasm was like nonexistent. And, and, um, I believe enthusiasm is, is key to success. You're an enthusiastic guy. I've seen some of your stuff on, on social channels, and that's, that's critical. It's a critical component. Um, and enthusiasm comes from the Greek root words en theos, meaning of God. No way. And so, yeah, did not know this. Yeah. And, uh, I just believe that, you know, if you kind of seek after that and you go after that, everything you need to accomplish your mission will be provided for you, right? And, uh, and I had lost my enthusiasm, but I was passionate about climbing. And my buddy, uh, maybe if you follow the kettlebell world, you might know who Pavel Tsatsouline is.

I've heard the name. I don't know him at all, but I've heard him referenced for sure.

Yeah, he's been on— he's been on Rogan and, uh, Huberman podcast. So he's okay. Yep, yep. He's a dear friend of mine, he knew what happened. He called me up and he's like, "Derek, you know, I have this course called All Terrain Conditioning." He goes, "I see what you're doing with climbing and why don't you teach this course for me?" And it was a step in the— it was like a step, a door that opened, right? And because I was posting about like what I was doing, I'm climbing these mountains, climbing these hard routes. And so he took notice and said, "All right, you're a master kettlebell instructor. You have this pedigree and background." clearly you're climbing, teach my all-terrain conditioning course. So started going around the country teaching this course called All-Terrain Conditioning, and, um, that's, you know, ultimately how you and I got connected here. Uh, yeah.

Um, it's like outdoor— when you say teaching it, like outside climbing shit teaching it, or sitting in a gym somewhere teaching it?

In a gym, actually. It's a philosophy behind strength and conditioning in a gym for outdoor pursuits.

Got it.

Okay.

Yep.

Outdoor adventures, whether you want to climb, hunt, mountaineer, ski.

Got it.

Just be outdoor active. Yep. Right.

Yeah.

Yep. And, uh, and there's a kind of a new methodology behind it and I, and you're learning some of that A+A and we can, we can get into that. I don't know where you wanna go with this if we wanna talk about business or A+A, but, uh, a strength coach from Australia took my course and he said, you know, Derek, I have this athlete, she's going for a world record on Aconcagua. It's the tallest mountain in the Americas. She wants to do a speed ascent of it. Normal expeditions take 2 weeks to go to the top and come off. In 48 hours, she's going to go from one gate to the top to the other gate and then connect the 2 gates on the road in under 4 hours. What?

Yeah. How many miles is that? And elevation and all that?

Give me some. It's about 100K, 100 kilometers, so over 60 miles. Um, and let's see, we start at 8, about 8,000, and we would go to about 23,000. What? And then, and then back down to 8, connect. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, my knees are thinking about going down, dude.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, 29029 is, you know, you're 29,000 feet of vert, but you're going from, you know, maybe 4,000 to 8,000, back down to 4,000, up to 8,000, back down to 4,000. I mean, you're— this is like less and less oxygen.

Great elevation.

Yeah, dude, life gets slow after 14,000, that's for sure, man. So I started training her, and, uh, 29029 reached out to her and said, hey, would you— we see what you're posting on Instagram, would you like to be a coach? We're looking for coaches. She's like, uh, no, but you need to meet my coach. And, uh, and so here I am with 29029 and, and meeting you and on this podcast. Oh shit. Yeah, that's how life—

when was— when did that happen, um, roughly?

Well, let's see here. I was on Aconcagua with her in 2022, so I would say, I would say it was sometime after a couple years ago. Yeah, a couple years ago.

Yeah, interesting. How many, how many 29.029 events have you done? Oh, um, officially, I know you're out there helping people sometimes, but like officially done them?

Oh, honestly, just as a coach, I'm—

yeah. Okay, you've never done it just as a competitor, if you will?

No, no. And I need— I kind of need to. I, I'd really like to. Uh, yeah, as a coach, I probably get— I probably get 2/3 to 3/4 of the event in as a coach, just hiking up and down, up and down. But yeah, yeah, I've wanted to. I've like, hey, can the coaches just like go and do it? And they're like, no, we really don't want you to.

Oh, it's a thing. Got it.

I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just have to sign up for one as a, as a client. So it's like a normal client. I can't do it while I'm coaching. Right. Got it.

So it makes sense.

Yeah.

Are you— which ones are you at this year coming up?

Yeah, this year, whichever one's easier. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm doing— I'm going to Jackson Hole next week, and then I do Aspen. I do Aspen, I do Stratton, I'm doing Snow Basin, and I'm going to probably go out to Mont Tremblant as well. I have a lot of athletes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just not Whistler.

Yeah, last year. Yeah, Whistler.

Not trail.

I actually have— yeah, not trail. I have a— I actually teach an all-terrain conditioning course in Bozeman over Whistler, so. That's why I can't go to that one.

So yeah, I'll see you in Aspen.

I'll be the last one. Yeah, yeah, for sure. You're gonna be ready to go. You're gonna be ready to go.

Great. I'm ready now, bro. I'm like, I'm ready. Yeah, I am ready. It feels a lot like— if you— have you done 75 Hard officially before or no? No.

Okay.

Um, and you can probably relate something else to it. It's just obviously a 75-day of chaos. And at the beginning it's hard as shit. In the middle it gets kind of— I won't say easy, but you know what you're doing, you know what to expect every day, and kind of it's just go get through the day. But then like the last 2 weeks is brutal because you're like, I got it, but I can't slip up, you know what I mean? Like you're afraid to kind of like— yeah, and yeah, I kind of feel the same right now. Yeah, like I'm in really good conditioning shape, I feel great, and I'm like God, this 2 weeks can't come fast enough. But now I'm just like mentally powering through it, even when I don't— there are some days I don't want to do this shit. Those step-ups, dude, are brutal. Yeah, but yeah, like, hey, it is what it is. Today's officially a 3-hour step-up day.

3 hours of step-ups. Yeah, yeah, you put on a podcast like this and you just go, right? And, and, um, you know, it's, it's, it's mental training as much as it is physical. Right. There's a physical aspect to it. But like, you know, like there's going to be parts on the mountain too where you're just like, I'm just in the grind zone, right? Like it's more of the same, you know, 29.029, you do— I mean, let's say you do Jackson Hole, it's 19 laps of the same mountain, you know, I guarantee you from 5 to 15, you're like just in that grind, you know? And so 3 hours of step-ups, you know, it's like put myself in the cave, put my head down, just go. And I do a lot of visualization. Sometimes I listen to a podcast, but a lot of just mental visualization. I think that's another key to success is visualizing yourself doing it, visualizing the pain, visualizing the, the weather and the heat and, and the suffering. That way when it happens, you're like, yep, this is what I expected.

Expected this. Yeah, it's funny, it's different too inside versus outside. I'm on the mountain, dude, I can like— the Kennesaw Mountain by me, I just go. Now I'm in like a whole nother world and it's just— I zone out and I put it in like 3-hour chunks and I just go. But inside, dude, it's a different game.

Yeah, that's awesome. I love it.

I don't know if that's for everybody, but I, I'd rather climb the mountain for 8 hours than do step-ups for 3.

Oh, 100%, 100%. And that's why I do it. I think I took that early on from a CrossFit guy. I used to lock himself in a closet and jump on the rowing machine and row inside a closet. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I was like, oh, that's pretty mental. I like it. You know, why not? Why not? Let's take this to step-ups. That's crazy. And so it's so true, though. And I mean, there's so many things to talk about, John. And like I said, stop me and we can, we can camp out on one topic for a while. But I climbed Denali and I had one of the hardest experiences of my life on Denali in Alaska. It was, you know, generally group, you know, your group should take 14 days if you just crush it, 14 days max of 21, uh, like absolute max of 21. You only pack food for 21 days. We were out there for 24. I, you know, I attribute like a lot of the, the mental toughness of just being in the pain cave doing step-ups to success on that mountain, right?

So bananas, dude. Yeah, I always try to tell people, like a lot of people, the average person watches me and they're like You're an animal. And I'm like, I mean, I see what you mean, but when I get in the arena with all the other crazy people, I'm like, yeah, dude, I don't feel like I'm doing that much.

Yeah.

You know? Yeah. I'm like in the little leagues compared to what some of you guys do. And that's, yeah, it's inspiring to see like how far people push themselves.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's forever. I feel like that's forever. I have, I have a buddy, I just did Reneer with a buddy who skis off of Reneer, and he wants to ski off of Denali. And I think he's like this, this world-class skier, and he's like, nah, there's, you know, there's so many better skiers out there than me. And I was like, you just skied a line that a guy died on a week later and you don't think you're a world-class skier? And so that, yeah, you know, I'm not sure when that ends, John, to be honest. Like, I think we always feel like there's always someone that's leveling up, and that's a good thing. I think we're here to grow, right? Yeah, yeah, and get better.

What do you see— what are the relations to business for you? I mean, obviously they're very similar, but, you know, obviously I focus on growing a team, and I've sold a bunch of insurance, sure, but my goal was to build the team.

Yeah.

And in today's world, again, I, I spend some of my time teaching people how to sell insurance, but I enjoy working more so with the people who want to build something, you know. And it's always funny seeing the different personality types that come in and verbally they say, I want to achieve ABC, I'm tired of being broke, I'm tired of being this, you know. But there's only a few, man, that like do what it takes day in and day out.

Yeah.

And I'm curious what you— just your thoughts on it, man, seeing as many people as you've seen and kind of the winning getting into losing thing, you know what I mean? Just cover it in general. Just, I don't know, I don't—

I don't—

I'm learning the relation. To me, I learned— I, I've applied what I learned in business to fitness. Funny enough, I feel like I did it backwards from a lot of people, um, where you learn fitness and applied it to business, right? You know, right? I was broke and I was disgustingly out of shape.

He's like, I gotta change.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, for me, both times, business and physical, were both in a snap decision.

Both of them.

For me, it was like, fuck it, I'm done. I just have to do something about this. Yeah, I don't see that a lot from people. I see this very like slow incremental, you know, and they, they, I don't know.

I think as human beings we always will do what we have to do, right? And that's so, that, that's part of the trick is forcing yourself to be at a point where like, I have to change no matter what level that is. You know, I think there's a financial thermostat. You've probably heard of that, right? Everybody has their financial thermostat.

Yeah, right here. I'm gonna let talk about it a lot. Yeah. You ever hear my let talk about the thermostat thing? No, I'm gonna send you a clip. Remind me, I'll send you. He has a dope analogy with it. It's not necessarily financial, it's over overall, but it's a super good analogy.

But yes, growth mindset. Yeah. When's good enough? Like, it's, it's 70 in the room right now. If I, you know, open the door and it's cold outside, it's gonna get cold in here for a second, but then the heater's gonna kick on and bring it back to 70. If, if I open the door and it's hot outside, well, the air conditioning's gonna kick on and bring it back down to 70. And And, you know, that's just where— that's where we're at. And so it's always a matter of like leveling up our thermostat if we want to take it to the next level. But some people just get to the point where like, I'm just so effing sick of it being cold in the room, like I'm going to make it hot. Yeah. You know, and I think I actually learned this from my dad watching a national championship of mine. I'm going to take you way back. So in high school, I trained so hard. I just— all I wanted to be was a state champion. Right. And that's what we like, we strove for at our school in wrestling. I took second in the state in wrestling.

Okay.

And I actually tore my ACL the week of wrestling and I went to state with a torn ACL and I took second, you know. And so the doctor was so amazed. He's like, do you want to try and run track on it? I'm like, hell yeah, I want to try to run track on it. And so I ended up at the sectional championships. I beat the state record in track and field. I was ranked first by like 2 seconds. Like, I was very good at track and field. And, um, my junior year I had hit the last hurdle and I took second by 0.06 seconds. So now here I have a second in track and field and I have a second wrestling in the state, but now I'm a senior, I'm going to destroy the state record, be a state champion. And I think I had a fear of success. Um, I got— I came up on the last hurdle and I just, I remember this kind of wave of emotion coming over me and almost this fear of like, it's really happening. And I hit the last hurdle, tripped and fell and took 6th. Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And what do you mean by the fear, though? Like, that sounds like some people go, oops, mistake. But why do you think fear played in that?

I think I just— I put so much of like my— just like who I was as a person into it. Like, you know, I am a track athlete. This is what I do. I am an athlete. I am— I'm going to be a state champion. That, you know, I just built my whole life upon it. And then when it— when it's all of a sudden there, it's right in front of you, and all you have to do is walk through the door, you stumble, right? Just like get this, like, the nervous, like, oh my God, this— this can't be happening to me. I'm not good enough, right? Right. Or I'm not worthy.

And your body found a way to to shut you down.

Yeah, yeah, dude. I just remember this, just nervous, like, oh, came over me, and I kind of like short-stepped to the last hurdle, tripped and fell. And, uh, then it was like all of a sudden it happened 2 years in a row. Like, I hit the last hurdle my junior year, and then I tripped and fell my senior year. Took that right into college. I was in the national championships as a freshman, qualified for NCAAs, and I'm running right there with the national champion. Guess what? Last hurdle, I sky it. The whole field passes me. And I didn't even make finals. And then my sophomore year, I'm ranked first in the nation. And in trials, I skied the last hurdle and I barely made finals. It was like I made finals by like 0.5 or something like that. I remember my coach coming up to me and he's like, dude, what is your problem? Like, I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, get out of the way, right? Like, you've trained your body to do this. For so long. Like, just go out there and let it happen, right? And, and so of course I get out there, take that advice, you know, just like, okay, you know what, I've trained to do this. I just have to let my body perform to what it's capable of being, kind of get my mind out of the way and just let it happen. And, uh, and I won my first national championship. But I watched the video and, and my dad He's in the stands and, and he's cheering the whole way, man. This still makes me choke up to this day a little bit. This is like 20 years ago. He— I come around and he's like yelling the whole way, but I get to like hurdle 9 and he starts yelling, "You've gotta want it! You've gotta want it! You've gotta want it!" In a, in a stands of like thousands of people, you know, you can hear him over the crowd and people are turning around like, what is this crazy guy? You know, "You've gotta want it! You've gotta want it!" And the camera's shaking and I get over the last hurdle when national championship and everybody's going bonkers, right? It's crazy. And I— and that video sticks in my mind to this day. You know, we're talking about financial thermostat. Yeah, I think at the end of the day, John, you've gotta want it. You've gotta want it. And if you want it bad enough, you will figure out what it takes to get there, who you need to be, what you need to read, who you need to become, how many people you need to talk to. And some people have that and some people don't. And, and I think if you're listening to this, you know, sometimes you've gone to all the seminars, you've listened to everything, you've trained your body, you've trained your mind to do it. You just gotta want it and go do it and get out of the way and let your body perform to what it's capable of doing. Yeah, you know, go talk to people, trust your instinct, talk to, you know Talk to them like a normal human being. You'll be fine, you know, and, and just keep going. And if you want it bad enough, it will, it will eventually happen. You just keep working at it and keep, keep improving. So yeah, I, I think maybe that's a long answer to a—

I like it.

Sure.

You say some people have it and some don't. Dive into that. I'm curious what you mean by that.

Yeah, I, you know, I, I think some people have given into that mindset that, that I felt in high school where like you come up on your, your goals and dreams and aspirations and you know, like what it takes and you're just like, well, that's not for me. That's for other people. Yeah. You know, that's, that's not, that's not for me. And it, and it holds you back and you self-sabotage. You start doing, you know, you start doing things that, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh dude, I've definitely done that a lot. That's why I'm always like, I don't know. I just, I wonder, can people— I feel like I change. I don't know that I always— I can always see, I can look back and see like glimpses, you know, if I look backwards, be like, oh, I was, I kind of had it there. Well, nope, not long enough. I only had it for 12 minutes there, you know. So I don't know if I just— yeah, some people are like, he's just different. But I don't, I don't know. I don't feel that way. I feel like I made myself change. I had to change. That's it. And got— I still, dude, I'm extremely uncomfortable with what I'm doing now. I can't even wrap my head around. Yeah, because again, we— I live 6 miles from the mountain. There's not a lot of mountains locally here, um, and so everybody knows the mountain here local. And when I did that 12-hour day that you had me do last month, yeah. I went into it not really knowing to expect because I never, you know, I mean, done that mountain that long. And I was like trying to math it out in my head and I'm like, dude, I should smash a marathon distance in my head. I was like, basic math. I was like, dude, if I don't stop, there's a chance I could sniff 40 miles. And I— coming out of my mouth, it sounds weird.

Yeah.

And I got 12 hours. I was at like Um, I think I was at 35, but I— the way I did the route, because I was just making it up, I, I was like 2 miles from my car still. So I was forced to go at least 2 more miles. So then I was at 37 with like, you know, 12 and a half miles in. Like, there's no way I'm stopping before 40 now. So I did like 13 and a half hours that day just to get to 40. You know, when, when Steph brings it up most people are like, wait, like 40?

Yeah, yeah.

But it just kind of went— it was just a day to me. It was just a long work day. Yeah, it was kind of mentally where I went with it. And I did 3-hour chunks of time, and I'm like, if this were a work day, 12 hours flies by.

That's right, that's right.

You know, um, but I still— when I say it, and I wrote it on my whiteboard— I have— I think I've showed you the whiteboard in the gym at the house, and I write down all my times, my records and stuff. And so I got that 40 miles on there.

And yeah, that's awesome, dude. That was a hell of an accomplishment, seriously. But I think you're getting at something, is that the mind is built just like the body. You know, we wouldn't walk into the gym and expect to deadlift 500 pounds tomorrow if you've— if you haven't been training, right? So we can build there slowly over time with the right program, right? And, and the right mindset and the belief that you can do it. And, you know, and just keep talking yourself into it. And you get these little wins. You have to get these little wins, right? Because you imagine if, if you hadn't done even a 29.029 in the past, you haven't kind of gone down this road of CrossFit and all this stuff. And I said, all right, John, we're going to go 12 hours, you know, and you're going to be like, get to like, what the hell are we doing? There's no way. And you know, and you barely get 20 miles maybe, you know, after 12 hours. And you're like, that was good enough. But because you've had these like micro successes. You, you know, you win here, you win here, you win here. You start to build that positive, like, I can do anything mindset if I just put my mind and my effort to it, right? And, and then, you know, even the big audacious dreams, like, you start, you speak it, and then, and then you're like, well, maybe I believe that. And then you start going along the train, and the more you speak it, and then the more you believe it, and then the more you believe it, and then it's just inevitable. It's going to happen. It's just a matter of time. And that That kind of becomes one of my favorite sayings is like, you already have it, it's just a matter of time. You know, I tell myself that all the time. Like when I'm hiking mountains, like, Derek, you're already there, it's just a matter of time. You know, you're already eating pizza, having a beer back at the—

back at the ground.

It's— dude, it's just a matter of time. Like, or like, because you know you're not going to quit, right? You know you're not going to quit.

Hey guys, just created something really cool, and if you want to be part of it, join the Discord group I just created. The link is going to be in here. It's a dope environment. You can chat with others that are kind of in the community. You can see beyond the curtain of our agency, have access to all kinds of stuff that we got going on, events, and my staff is in there. We have agents in there selling, me helping agents and sharing information. We're going to, as we build this thing out, share everything out there with all of you guys. So again, follow the Discord if you want to be part of everything we got going on. Join it now. We'll see you in there. Hope to help you more. I picture like the going home and having to explain that I didn't do what I said I'm gonna do, and I— that makes me not stop. I like actually visualize the negative side when I— when I'm— because dude, I promise you, when I'm out there, I want to stop some days.

Yeah, yeah.

And I'm like, I gotta explain to people I stopped, and I gotta go to bed thinking about it. Like, that's what happened with Whistler last year. I started— I should not have stopped. I, I definitely physically could have finished that. Mentally, dude, I got punched in the face. Yeah. And I, it's been a 12— well, now I'm at whatever it is, 8— what am I at, 10 months since last year? It's been a 10-month grind mentally of like, nah, fuck you, I'm, I'm getting this one.

And that's the mentality where I say some people have it and some people don't. It's, uh, and, and maybe we can get people to change, you know, through podcasts like this and, and encouragement, but it's, it's just that like when something bad happens, what is the story you tell yourself? What is the story? Do you, do you overcome that or does it turn you around and shut you down and be like, well, this just isn't for me, it's for somebody else, and you turn towards something else? And I heard a good analogy one time. I'm from Wisconsin, so we have snow, right? And I think you can picture this if you've ever sledded down a fresh powder hill. You kind of got to push your sled through the fresh snow, right? And then all of a sudden You know, you've built that track, and now the, the more compressed that track is, the faster your sled goes down that track. That's like the neural pathways in your brain of what you're— of what you're telling yourself. And, and so if you've— from a little kid on, if you've, if you've lost at something, you know, and you're like, oh, that's just not for me, guess what? You just skied down that hill. You just made a track. And you keep doing that as an adult, it becomes faster and faster and faster. Just turn down that track. You have to build a new track, and that's the hardest thing to do. You got to get your freaking sled back out and push down the— and build a new track. Oh, that's not me. That's my old self. My new self is over here. And you have to build those little successes, right? And I've kind of learned that through repetitions, right? Like, you know, we never want to practice bad form because then what are you teaching yourself? Bad muscle memory of bad form. Exactly. So you always want to do good reps. And, and I tell my kids, do good reps in your head. Don't— let's— don't poop in your head. Yeah, don't, don't take a poop in your head. Do good reps in your head. Like, what are you telling yourself right, right now? And, and I'll get them to stop and think. And, and I even— and I do that to myself too. But, you know, it just— it gets them to stop and think, like, what am I thinking about myself right now? What am I— where's my positivity at right now?

Yeah, it's funny you say with the kids. I— Maddox, um, is my 13-year-old, but a ton of— I share stuff all the time, obviously, if you follow me on social. He had, um, we were in Destin, Florida this week for a little baseball, and to see last baseball tournament of 13U for him. And last year we did Cooperstown, and, uh, he hit his first home run ever at Cooperstown last year. Hit 2 actually. And he, he gets on base a lot. He's a— he's consistent as shit, but he's not a power hitter. He's tall and lanky, and the power thing hasn't come for him yet. Um, he's getting there. He has little spurts of it, but not consistent power, but he's consistent on base. Um, and so last year we were talking him up, trying to get him there. Long story short, this year we're at the, uh, the, the tournament in Florida, and, uh, we get to the championship game in his bracket. In his— I think it was his first at-bat, he, um, teams— it's a close game. Back and forth kind of game. He gets up and, you know, kid doesn't strike out a lot. He walks. He's had— he has 3 times the walks of anyone on the team and a fair amount of hits. I mean, he's a— he's a— he's a good player, but doesn't strike out a ton. But when he does, he strikes out looking and it drives me insane. I'm like, bro, you've got to stop striking out looking, dude. I don't— I don't care that you strike out swinging. So of course he gets up there, 2 strikes, and I'm like, in my head, I'm like, bro, just swing. And he watches one go. They pitch him inside, goes right by him. He slams his bat, goes in the dugout. I'm like, bro, what do you do? Just 2 strikes, championship game. Like, you know, you got to swing. They talk about 2-strike approach and all this stuff.

I'm like, what are you doing?

And he goes— and I don't talk to him a lot of games. I try to be quiet because he gets in his head a little if I do. So I just sort of let him be. And he's like, I can't hit the inside pitch. I'm like, dude, you're certainly not going to hit it if you think that and then don't swing. Also, like, you got two bad things against you. The thought is terrible and you don't swing at it, you know what I mean? I'm like, yeah. So next time around the lineup, we get up and it's like, it's tie game in the like fourth inning. It's like, it's a timed game, they do like an hour and 45 minutes or whatever, right? And he gets up, one dude on, the biggest, strongest kid on the team gets a double. Maddox is up, and, uh, again, I usually don't say anything to him, but I'm like, yo, will you please be aggressive up there? Yeah, like, you've, you've hit a home run before. Go hit the ball. And he's like ignoring me. He's like, go away, Dad, basically, you know. But kid gets up there, dude, 2 strikes, man, and he tore one. He hit the fan. The park was 300 feet, so he tore one over the right-hand over the right fielder's head, hits the fence, doesn't go out, but he hits the fence, gets a double, knocks in the winning run, and they, they win the championship. That wasn't a walk-off, but they scored 2 more runs after that and sealed it. I think they won 9-6. And then, uh, you know, just the power of the belief for— in, in, in just— you can instill in people in that moment what can happen, you know. Yeah, it's like— and he, dude, he had a bomb, and everyone was like, holy shit, Maddux hit that!

Yeah.

And again, he's a, he's a regular hitter, but they hit a bomb over the right fielder's fence. He that's— he doesn't believe he can. And crazy enough, sometimes he doesn't.

One in the bucket. Thank God, you know, honestly, thank God what happened, you know. One in the bucket of like, oh, that is how it works. This, this can happen, you know. And, and that's what I wonder sometimes about talking about people— some people who have it, some people don't— is, is the kid who struck out again in that situation.

Yeah.

And goes back to the dugout, and are they reinforcing in their head Yep, I was right.

See, I told you.

Yeah, yep, yep, yep. And then, and then that transfers to all sales and, and marketing and building a team, and it's like, no, like, you can do it. And that's, and that's the thing, we, we look at ourselves as like average guys, right? I was not a good athlete. I would, you know, I think my freshman year of wrestling I was 9 wins and 16 losses, and 5 of my 9 wins were forfeits. I was 4-16. 4-16. I went, I took it from that to second in the state with a torn ACL. Right? And, um, yeah, I don't know, with, with track and field, it was the same. But, uh, you, you start to like think of all of the little intricacies, right? Um, all the little details it takes. And, and I'm like, okay, I'm not, I'm not the fastest guy in the world. Like, if I ran the 400-meter hurdles— get this, John— I, I never qualified for nationals in the open 400-meter dash. Didn't even qualify for the national meet. I ran at the Olympic trials in the 400-meter hurdles because I became a master at running my race over hurdles. You know, I don't think— I really don't think there was anybody better, you know. And, and I can honestly say that because, because I, I didn't qualify. I wasn't even close to qualifying in the Open 400. Yeah, you know. And so I had to be better in so many other ways that you learn how to be good and you learn how to be like take, take the things that people don't even think there's a competition in and you turn it into a competition. You know, you're not even, you're not even thinking about playing on this level. And, and that's what I'm thinking about. Like, I'm counting my steps walking to class. Why? Because you're just running the race and I'm counting my steps to every hurdle, right? I'm thinking about walking downstairs with my feet dorsiflexed. Why? Because plantar flexing your foot is a braking action. It slows you down. And every time you walk downstairs, you plantarflex your foot. I'm not going to plantarflex. I'm going to walk down the stairs like a duck, plantarflex, you know, dorsiflexing. Everybody's like, what the hell are you doing? I'm like, winning national championships. You know, they're like, fucking down the stairs in the locker room. You're freaking crazy. Well, 3 national titles later and, you know, Olympic trials, like, that's, that's the level I took it to. And, and I think of myself as just an average guy who, who became above average by like mastering the basics and, and taking a competition to a level that nobody took it to. Um, and that's when you start to get that teaching mentality where you look at any average person and you're like, I was you, I was you, I was, I was fat, I was out of shape, and I was— I had no money in my bank account. Yeah, I'm telling you, I, I look at you and I see talents, I see potential, you can do it. But they ski down the wrong hill, you know, and it's like, and how do we get them to start skiing down the right hill? Let's say whatever it takes, I'm gonna do the diligent things and the steps and become that person that I'm currently not.

Yeah, I see a lot of people like, uh, think it's something else than what it really is causing the lack of success, you know. And I don't know if this is true, but as I give a lot of analogies for insurance, I'm trying to make examples for, uh, the running thing I'm going through. Which, by the way, I didn't tell you yet, dude, I got a sub-30 5K this morning. Oh my gosh, but I ain't done that since I was 28.

Yes, dude, I'm so pumped. Yeah, I'm so pumped. Your training is—

it was 29, like I beat about like 20 seconds or something. Awesome. Yeah, so I was excited about that. Um, but you know, I see a lot of people think it's something else, and I always give— like when I, when I wrote the book, I gotta send you a book. Did my team get all your stuff, your info?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm gonna send you this in the book, but I, I wrote this book called Do More Now, Get Better Later. Right.

Okay.

And DO MORE, there's an acronym to it. It means certain things like discipline and ownership, and there's, there's a whole thing. I'll, I'll get to in a second. But I have this thought, like, what, what I was always trying to, like, find the magic pill that would get me really good at sales. And I made a decision one year, 10 years ago now, and I was like, What if I just accept who I am as a salesperson and just do more of it and just worry about all the other stuff later? And it was a, it was a turning moment for me, right? And I just, I decided to start outworking people and doing more reps and not worry about all the, what do you say here? And what happens in this scenario? And what kind of voice should I have? And what, what should I say on the script? And all, all the stuff. And I try to use the same example here going through this journey of, of fitness. And I'm like, I don't know shit. About fitness or running. I just move a lot. My, my method was do a lot of mileage on the mountain, you know, and I'll worry about the shoes and the shorts and what poles to wear. I, I don't know anything about that stuff really, um, but I'm learning it now that I've been on the mountain a bunch and I go through these mistakes. And, you know, I— you sweat so much, your, your feet start sliding in the shoes because they're soaking wet. I did. I didn't, I didn't know that was a thing, you know, or, hey, I buy the wrong shoes and you find like the ones with a little hole in the bottom, the ons, and the rocks and the acorns get stuck in them, or the right shirt. But I, I wonder, and I always say, so this is kind of a question, like when I give the analogies from insurance to that, I'm like, a lot of people go out there and they try to buy all the gear before they even start training.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

And I wonder if I'm accurate in that.

Oh, that's— dude, for sure. That happens in mountaineering all the time because mountaineering is cool, you know. You got to get the boots and the crampons and the axe and, yeah, you know, the bag and the new puffy coats and, and the Gore-Tex this and that and, and forever. And then the rope and the harness and blade device, and it's all this stuff. It's like, dude, how many step-ups did you do? Because you're gonna have all this awesome fancy shit on and you're gonna die getting to base camp. Yeah, you know, like, get, get in the corner, look at the wall, and do step-ups on a box. Yeah, absolutely. And all that other stuff you'll, you'll learn. Yeah, exactly. It's how it's—

ours is dials. Like, people are, ah, I didn't have the right this or the right that. And I'm like, how many phone calls did you make? They're like, well, you know, man. And, uh, and you know what I learned about it too that's coming true also So the, the concept of the book was like a decision. I'm gonna do more now and I'm gonna worry about getting better later. But I also learned it's kind of an equation too. Like, because I did more, I also got better.

Yep.

And that's happened in running, dude. Like this. Yep. I've always been like, I'm not a runner. I'm a big guy. I'm heavy. I was like 230 last year when I did, um, uh, Whistler. And people look at me and they, they're like, dude, you're in— everyone thought I was in amazing shape., right? Again, I'm a little, I was a little bit bigger guy, but I wasn't a fat 230. And, you know, I don't consider myself a runner at all. I've never run in my life, really. The most I ever did in my life, I did 2 5Ks in my 20s.

And now I have you doing a 5K a day, by the way.

Yeah.

He's doing a 5K a day every day.

Yeah. Plus all the hell, 5K a day, my ass. That's, that's only, that's the getting started of the day.

That, that's, yeah, that's the warmup for the day. Your first 30 minutes is going to be a 5K.

Yeah, the 5K sandwich. That's— I've been making people do that, bro. You know, and now my little community, I have like this Discord community where people follow, and I have a fitness section. And so every day I'm posting my stuff, and now more people are coming in and starting to— I'm pushing people to be well-rounded, not only in business but in health too, because it's helped. It's helped me, dude. I was down— so not only did I do the fastest 5K today, but I'm down to 207. And muscle staying. I'm like 13-something. I think I've cracked— I haven't met— last time I went to the doctor, I was like 14.2 body fat. And when I started with you, dude, I was at 21.

Wow. Yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah.

And we're not focused on weight loss either.

No, I'm not at all. I'm just trying to be healthy. Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm learning to fuel myself for the work I'm doing and the rest and recovery. This whole game, dude, is wild. But I'm, I'm kind of loving it.

And I think it pairs into what you're saying in a, in a way, right? Like, do the stuff, and, and, and by doing more, you're gonna learn a lot of things, and you're going to learn how to be better. A lot of people in the fitness industry— and I stopped coaching people when they come to me and they're like, I want to lose 20 pounds for my wedding or whatever— I'm like, wrong trainer, you know? Uh, I want to train you for performance. If I make you more enduring, if I make you stronger, if I make you more powerful, right? And then you're going to start to be like, what do I do with this new body? Do I just live in the gym? And you know, I'm, I'm in better shape to do better at the gym. Like, no, you're going to start exploring the outdoors and then you're going to have this awesome adventure and you're like, I want more of that. How do I get more of that? Well, I got to come in the gym and train more. And then, and, and then you start to learn these pieces of nutrition and, and You learn the nuances of movement and you get better simply by doing more step-ups, 5K a day, right? Like, and don't— you know, we didn't start at a 5K a day. We started with a mile a day, right?

Dude, I didn't even start there at the beginning.

I don't think. No, we didn't. No, we didn't. I started you a mile a day a couple months. I think you were 2 months in and I was like, okay, mile a day, John, and then 2 miles a day, and then I'll give you 5K a day. And, uh, yeah, I remember.

And then I did a mile with you was 15 minutes, bro.

That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah.

And then also almost crack 9. I'm so close to cracking 9 minutes. I'm not there yet. I haven't sprinted a mile yet though. I haven't done, I haven't done a, only a single mile in since before you had me doing the mile a day. And I, then I was just pacing it, you know? So I, I need to go out there and run a mile. I think I can get a nice—

Well, we can re-break back down, you know, and I think that's That's a part of training. Maybe you can relate it to businesses, like intentionally taking an off-season or a step down, right? Like we think it's just this ladder to success. And of course we know there's ups and downs, but we want the general trend to be up, up, up, up, up, up, constantly up. What about taking an intentional down? Yeah, right. To regroup, refocus, maybe change something in, in the way you're doing business or life, right? Um, like once we hit this peak, it's like, okay, let's re-break back, be back down, let's go back. We're not going to go to 5 miles a day and now it's 10 a day and eventually it's a marathon a day. Like, dude, you're just going to wear yourself into a hole. Like, yeah, and maybe in business it's like, you know what, take a month off and go climb Aconcagua in South America. Just get away, right? Take a sabbatical and figure something out. Maybe you're going to come back with like a totally different like aha moment that that, yeah, changes this, this turning point in your business, right?

Yeah.

And that's, and that's maybe for people, you know, that have already built a big business, you know, they've, sure, they've, they've done more work, they've learned more, they've gotten it to a certain level, and it's like, okay, what's next? You know, let your brain relax for a second, right? Not every athlete is— not every athlete's in season, right? NFL has an offseason, NBA has an offseason, you know, but sometimes in business it's like in season all the time, right?

Like, yeah, I struggle with that on both sides. Yeah, I do. Sometimes I have to, I have to catch myself a lot, you know. Yeah, it's a neat learning lesson. That's cool. How do you, um, I'm curious on the team building side, in a sense, in business and also in your coaching side, kind of, if I'm sure they're related, but like one of the things I teach my guys is really being intentional with who they choose to work with. Versus a mistake, especially in the insurance space. It's probably in your former space, the, the MLM, multi-level thing too, that like anyone that breathes is welcome. I mean, if you could fog a mirror, come on over. Um, the insurance space is like that a lot. Yeah. And I'm very counter to that. I refused. I don't like that way. I like everyone we talk to. Um, we had someone get mad, frustrated with one of my managers this weekend because he's like, hey, I want to work with you, get me started. And they were like, well, let's set up a call to make sure you're a good fit. And he lost his mind because we asked to have a conversation first to make sure he was a good fit for us. He's like, what do you mean if I'm a fit? And he put it in quotes and all these things. I'm like, dude, we don't know you, you know. So I've learned in business to have like things I look for and set right expectations and all this stuff. Um, I assume you dealt with that on the business side, but do you, do you, I assume you don't take, you just said you don't take people who are gonna lose weight with you, but what are the things you're looking for in that, in that process of like, who do you wanna put your time, energy, and effort into? Um, whether business or coaching. Yeah.

I, I think, I think we used to call them like, so you have your MVPs, your most valuable players. Sure. Uh, and then you have your like VDPs, your very dependable people. And then you, you have your VDPs, your very drainable people. I like that one. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and you can spend a whole lot of time and, and get no, no, nothing produced out of that, right? And so, and, and this is the balance, like with your, with your book. It's like, I just want to do more work, I gotta get people, and you know, and you are, and that, and you're learning through that. And then through that process, you're like, okay, now let's become a— I, I, I just— and I don't know if it's right or wrong, I used to tell myself I want to become a sniper. Now I want to— yeah, I search, stop shooting this shotgun, and I want to become a sniper and just like, okay, who is this key player? And, um, you, you find similarities. I think that the first natural tendency is to find people with similarities, like, okay, I, I know what the successful person does and looks like and how they act, and, and, and I'm gonna like get that person, we're gonna spend a ton of time with that person, work that person. Um, but then sometimes you find yourself surrounded with a bunch of the same people. Yeah. And, and you're like, oh crap, we have no one that's good at this. And so one of the things that would— that happened to me later on in business is I started to be— realize like, what am I really gifted at? What am I really good at? Standing in that and saying, okay, this person over here, I know I'm not good at this. And I sometimes I try to do that. I'm just not good at it. I need to find I need to find that uber successful person with the, the key success traits, but that they're really good at that different thing, and so I don't have to do it anymore.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, and then they're going to be a part of my team, and they're— and we're going to like create this winning team of like maybe up to 12 people tops that each have their own strengths, and when we get together, we're just like this unstoppable force. Right? Because we all have the, the key success traits, the overall kind of like umbrella, your, I guess, even base level success traits. But then everybody has their key strength, and, and then when someone walks into the room, they're going to find that person they relate to and like, this is awesome, I want to be a part of this organization.

What are some things that you look for that make you go like, nah, they ain't a fit? They say they want it, they do what they, they sound good, they, you know what I mean, all that deal. What are, what are some, how do you, how do you identify the ones that just you pass on in life?

Well, that's a tough question, you know, because again, you want to believe in everybody. I think that's my first natural tendency is to believe in everybody. And I think my life and my organization is you kind of got to prove to me that you're not, you know, through your actions and over and over and through your coachability. Yeah, yeah. Like if you're just not coachable Like if you always got an excuse for everything or always got it. Like if I say something and you're like, yeah, but this and this and I'm like, oh, you know, I, I struggled with that this year actually on my track team. We had a kid, he's super talented and I wish him the best of luck. But dude, I have more national championships than he has conference titles and it's like, and he just like he wanted to run the races he wanted to run. He wanted to train the way he wanted to train. Like, okay, well, next, you know. Yeah, you're senior, you'll do what you do, and I'm gonna go over here and focus on the freshmen and the sophomores because you just stopped listening to me, you know. And, and I— a big— and, and I don't— hopefully that doesn't sound arrogant or cocky, but like, I, I was taught early on, like, who do you listen to? And it goes back to the expert thing. I don't, I don't go to the auto mechanic shop and say, this is what's wrong with my truck, you need to do this. I'm like, dude, I, I hear this noise, or this thing is going on, tell me how to fix it, or whatever, or tell, you know, fix it. For the insurance world, I would go to you for advice, right? For the fitness world, you come to me for advice. You know, it's like, dude, you've built nothing. You've, you know, you, you've, you're at this beginner level, yet you have every excuse in the book or every tactic or reason in the book. You're talking to me, you're trying to like teach me and teach other people, and you haven't done it yourself yet. It. So that's kind of the, the VDP. That's your very drainable person. And just like, well, I gotta, I gotta focus elsewhere.

Yeah, like that. I'm gonna steal that one. That's a good one. If you're in the insurance space and trying to build an agency, or you're trying to like break records in sales, just hit new levels, new heights, click the link below to apply to my consulting and coaching program that I have out there. I'm helping tons of people get to new levels, get Income Heights, help them build their teams, put systems in place, staffing stuff, recruiting processes, automations, um, just teaching people how to get to a point where they're selling on their own pen, 30, 40, 50 grand a month. And if they're building a team, teaching how to have an effective structure to your insurance agency for the most profitability you can. There is an application process. I'm only looking to work with like high-end people who really wanna make big things happen. Couple recent clients that we've had in the, in the coaching program. One dude as an individual went from selling like 8 grand a month, barely getting by about out to quit the industry, found the book, hit me up direct, started a coaching program, went to $35K his first month, has issued like $150K in the last 90 days, and has changed the trajectory of his career. Working with another agency builder, very first month went from doing like $800 grand a month to almost $1.1 million. We added like 10 or 15% production in 30 days and continue to work on things there. So if you're interested, click the link, apply, and if you're fit, I'll reach out. It's tough, the mental energy thing. It's which, which is crazy that if for those that are watching, you're going to be like, you had them on because you're the same. I'm like, we don't know a ton about each other. And no, not really hearing some of your words are like exactly the shit, like the exact things I talk about with my team a lot. So it's, it's cool to see, um, that I'm on the right path. There's a ton of some stuff, you know.

I, I've been, you know, and that's why I text you. I, I, I've seen your stuff on social and I'm like, I love it. I love what this guy does. I love the way he talks. I'm like, he's a winner. He's good at what he does. And, uh, I'm like, I should tell him my story, you know? Like, you gotta hear my story, what happened. And yeah, and, um, yeah. And then you're like, hey, you should jump on my podcast.

Yeah, 100%. I'm all about it, dude. So what's, what's next for you? What do you, what do you, what are you gunning for out there? I've seen, I've seen some pictures of the gym, obviously, and you do all these crazy events. Like, yeah, how do you push yourself at this level? Like, what's, what's next?

Yeah, I mean, a few, a few years ago— well, quite a few years ago— like, Grand Teton. Hey, what's going on?

It's my son Braden.

What's up, Braden? Hey, I'm Derek.

No, he said hi. He's Derek. You can put on the other AirPod. So he's 17, and, uh, sorry to cut you off, but that's kind of how we're rolling right now. Come over here. Yeah, so now he's gonna be— he's gonna be on his first podcast. Cool. He hates me for it. Uh, 17, and he can get his license when he's 18, and I'm like, you should get on the phones, bro, if you want to start making money. Learn, learn the phone. So he's 17 years old, man, calling, calling and booking appointments for some of our guys. Uh, track guy too. That's cross country at school, actually.

Oh yeah, okay, cool.

So I'm trying to teach him to be a successful adult in life.

Yeah, we don't raise good kids, we, we raise good future adults. There you go.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah, that's awesome.

You can curl up in a ball and run away if you want now.

Are you—

yeah, he's out there, we're making him work. And now it's about reps for him and everything. Yeah, you know, and I just try to teach that stuff. This man, I've done a lot of things wrong, but yeah, I figured out a lot of reps goes a long way in a lot of different parts of my life.

So it's neat, man, watching them. That's awesome. Yeah, I think, like, the future, our kids, you know, because you've seen successful people with, like, very unsuccessful children, and, um, and I take that really quite seriously, um, is it goes back to that financial thermostat. I'm like, I want to tell my kids, like, no, no, no, like, I, I came from this mentality and, and this level and I've brought it to here and I want this to be your starting point because there are people here, you know, and, you know, I haven't, I haven't dialed in that, that repetition. And yeah, there's so much to talk about. Like as an athlete, you rep out until it becomes automatic, right? A good athlete will practice until they get it right. A great athlete will practice until they cannot get it wrong.

It's one of my favorites.

Yep, yep. And, and you do that the same way with your thinking and your actions and what you do in life and business. And, um, yeah, I just want my kids to level up, that's all. So yeah, that's kind of off topic, but, uh, where next, next big thing?

What are you working on?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, Grand Teton was like, years ago, was like the hardest thing I'd ever done. I remember going on a climb and it was like this 10-pitch climb, meaning like we go up a length of our rope and then we do that 10 times up a wall, 1,000 feet. And, uh, and yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm a rock climber. I'm a big-time rock climber. I climbed El Capitan in Yosemite Valley. I spent 4 days on the wall, just straight up those flat—

just, uh, what are you hooked in?

Yep, yeah, living in a— yep, yeah, living in a portaledge, hanging on a tent, like sleeping on a hanging cot.

I did a, um, I was in— I think it was when I was in Colorado, maybe. I did this thing where they— it was like, it was kind of like we did it, but it was like a tour, you know, and they put you on one and you more went across more than it— you know what I mean? It was like a touristy one, bro. I was standing on the side of this ledge, bro. I don't know, 150 feet in the air. It wasn't that crazy, but when you don't do that, just standing on the little thing, just hooked into that one little clip that's somehow in a rock I looked down, I was like, yeah, bro, that's intense, dude.

Yeah, it's intense. Yeah. Uh, another cool, cool business thing, law of familiarity, right? True. A familiarity, it's like what you do consistently over time you get familiar with. And yeah, and that, and that helps you level up. And, and that's, that's happened to me in rock climbing over the course of the last, um, you know, 24 years I've gotten very, very comfortable on a wall, but, uh, yeah, I've done some of these climbs, like the hardest thing you ever do. And then next thing you know, you're, you're doing that and more. And so, yeah, uh, it, it has turned a lot to like going on adventures with, with people I train. That's cool. Clients I train. And so then you're like, you run out of time to do things for yourself. And, and every year I do try to keep at least one thing on the calendar for myself.

So.

Yeah, this year in November, it's my goal there in Red Rocks, Nevada. So just outside Vegas, there's Red Rocks, Nevada. There's this wall, there's this mountain, it's called Rainbow Mountain. And there's this wall called Rainbow Wall. It's where all the professional rock climbers, you know, go and like aspiring professionals go. And on my 40th birthday, my, my wife's cousin said, hey, Derek, let's go climb Rainbow Wall. And I sent him back a laughing emoji on a text. And he's like, no dude, I'm serious. And so trained my butt off, uh, and on my 40th birthday we went and climbed Rainbow Wall. Wow. Well, there's another climb on the other side of Rainbow Wall called Levitation 29. It's a famous climber, it's her favorite climb in, in all of the United States. It's called, yeah, Levitation 29. So now I want to link it up. I'd like to go in, so it's like a 2.5-hour hike into Rainbow Wall It's 14 pitches of climbing, so 1,400 feet of climbing. I want to rappel off the other side, climb 1,000 feet on the other side, rappel off the first side, and then hike out. I kind of want— and yeah, I want to do it in a single day.

Are you doing that in November?

One push? Yeah.

November. Are you really?

Yeah.

Fuck yeah, dude. Yeah. You going with a crew?

It'll just be— it'll be just me and one of my climbing partners. Yeah. You got to light, light, light and fast. Yeah. Light and fast.

So 2 weeks after Aspen.

Woo-wee. Yeah. Yeah. So I should be acclimatized to altitude, right? So hopefully that's not an issue, but yeah, I gotta really dial in. I haven't been climbing a whole lot right now. I've been, you know, focused in other things, so I have to like really dial in my grip strength and my climbing strength.

But yeah. Yeah. I love it, dude. I love it.

Yeah.

It's fun. We can do this for like 5 hours.

Oh, I'm sure we could talk forever. And like any one of these topics, I, I, I mentioned it super briefly, the Entheos thing, like the of God thing. Oh dude. Talk for an hour probably on, on that, you know. Like, I just— there's so many things. And but at the end of the day, just like your book said, get to work.

And, uh, yeah, 100%, 100%. Hey, do you know this guy? Curious if you know him. It— he runs this thing. Have you ever heard of Muscle Mountain? Do you know what that is?

Muscle Mountain? No. I feel like I should know what it is though.

You definitely should. Uh, hold on, let me find— let me see if I can find him on Instagram Live. Eric Hinman. Do you know the name? Eric Hinman? Yeah, 5-time Ironman. He has this, uh, let me see if I can find a video of it real quick. Okay, a buddy of mine, um, does these, uh, what do you call them? What's that? Is it Leadville? Is that the bike one? Because there's long bikes he does. He's Craig Marty, shout out if you're watching. He does those, and, uh, he shared something he knows, or is connected with the guy who started that like ketone whatever IQ thing, and he told me to follow this guy this weekend. Dude, he's a savage. And, uh, he has this whole like outdoor gym where they train. Right now they're training for like— what's that, Hydrox? Hi-Rox?

Hi-Rox?

Yep, yep. He's, he's doing some stuff for that, and he does all kinds of shit. Um, and my buddy Marty's like, oh, I used to live right by And anyway, it seems like your jam, so you may, may follow him.

I don't—

yeah, I don't know much about him. I followed him for like 3 days, and, uh, some of the stuff— what I like that he does is he gets— he, he has this thing. I would love to do something like this in the space with, with some people to try to merge fitness and business. I don't really know where I want to go with it, but he has this like club, if you will, and it's a bunch of dudes who own their own business and they do crazy adventurous fitness stuff together too. Do masterminds and shit like that, but you have to be some kind of found— it's, I think it might be called Founders Club even. Um, super intrigued to see where this little business fitness journey takes me.

That's cool.

Because I meet, I meet my kind of people doing this because I'm not, I'm not the biggest people per— as much as I speak and talk in front of people like naturally, dude, most of this working out, 99% of it I've been by myself. I don't, I don't typically go to the mountain with anyone. I don't. But yeah, I'm like, there's other people like me out there and I'm starting to find them. Through this fitness journey.

It's neat. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we used to— I used to run this, uh, camp called, uh, we— the acronym was MOM, and we tell people because you'd cry for your mom.

You want to see Mom?

Um, we called it Mind Over Misery. Mind Over Misery. And our— my goal was to, to mentally break you before I physically broke you. Like, a trainer never wants to physically break somebody, right? Sure. Like, I never want to do something where someone's in a position where they could potentially hurt themselves. So I was always thinking about like, what are things and events we do where we mentally give up before we physically give up? And, and if we don't mentally give up, then we find a new physical level, right? And yeah, just some really just like, for lack of better terms, just some mindfuck workouts. There used to be this gym in Utah called Jim Jones. Are you familiar?

No, I know Jim Jones, the rapper, but I don't know.

Yeah, no. So, well, so Jim Jones was this like, Jim, like J-I-M Jones. You know, he had a cult and they all like drank poison in the wilderness and died. Right. So there's this guy, Mark Twight. He's a world-class alpinist. And he started a gym in Utah called Jim Jones. G-Y-M Jones. Yeah. Yeah. And the whole premise behind it was like, the mind is primary. Right. And, and that's— and he built his gym around, around that. And, uh, yeah, I went out there a couple times and I kind of like learned quite a bit from him. He was a definitely a role model, you know, whether he knows it or not. Um, yeah, but spent some time out there and he's since sold the gym, but he trained the people for the movie 300. If you ever saw the Spartan Warrior movie, he was their trainer. He trained the, the guys for, uh, like, uh, Man of Steel, the Superman movie.

And so yeah, he was that dude around. I've seen some people talk about the guy with 300 before.

Yeah, yeah, dude. I, I applied to go to the— to, to go work out there and go train there. Like, you apply online and they accept you. And I went all the way from Wisconsin to Utah, and you, you get in the room and, and they're like, hi, you know, my name's John and I'm going to be your trainer today. And, um, yeah, I don't know, I'm a volunteer firefighter, I do this for fun. And you see Mark Twight over there, he coaches, you know, world-class athletes and, and movie stars. He goes, so if, if you're not ready to bring your A-game, we can just call it good right now. You're like, we haven't even started yet. And, and you're like, oh, I'm ready to bring my A-game for sure. And, and he's like, all right, well, we'll see. Come on over. Like, and then, and then they tell you, like, after the day's workout, they tell you if you're welcome back tomorrow.

Hell yeah.

Like, like you— I like— I signed up to come here for a week to, like, learn from you guys, and it's day 1, and you're saying we don't even have to start. And then we're gonna do a workout and we'll let you know if you can come back tomorrow. That's my style, dude. That was their mentality.

I love that style. Yeah.

Loved it. So yeah, that's where, that's where, uh, Mind Over Misery came out of. That's good. Yeah. I have this, I got, I gotta make it. I have this space, the commercial space that I used to rent out to, uh, one of the gyms I sold. They, they ended up building their own gym and, and I have, uh, a dream that I'm gonna like take black and white photos of people I've trained that have done just epic shit, and I'm gonna post these big posters of people that I've trained in my gym and invite people out there like that. So when people walk in the room, they're like, whoa, what are all these posters? Like, oh, those are people that I've trained, and that's the epic shit that they've done. Hell yeah, you know. And by the way, are you— did you come here to bring your A-game, or should we just end this now?

I love Yeah, I love it. I'm gonna use that in hiring. I like the concept and I do it, but I'm gonna steal those words exactly. I have a guy today, he's, uh, one of the things I'll do with some people is, because everybody talks a big game, and what kills people in our space is the phones. Pick up the phones and start making sales calls, do people— I've seen grown men crumble. So, uh, I'm teaching, I'm building out a new team, like a new direct team, just some young killers that want to do some big things. And, uh, I'm like, we're just not going to accept mediocre people this time. Last time it took me a while to kind of figure out who is who and who I want to work with. And this one dude wanted to come on, he's broke as shit, and God bless him, he's in a— he's in a hole. And, you know, verbally said some things, but like some good things, but he hasn't been performing for his family. And I'm like, I don't— I don't know, dude. I'm not the magic, bro. I mean, I can tell you what to do, but if you don't do shit, I ain't that good. And so we have— we're testing now having people that come into my agency that want to work. They're getting in the group with our team, and I'm making them do phone calls for a certain amount of time for several days before we choose to bring them on to the agency.

Yeah, yeah, genius.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's fun.

People get like— you get some success, and, and people all of a sudden think like, all I got to do is latch on to this guy, correct? Right. And then it's like, well You got to do the work. And it's the same thing, people hire me as a trainer, like, oh, Derek Toshner is my trainer, I'm, I'm golden now. It's like, you got to put in the work, man. It's 5K a day, let's go. Every day, like, every day. Yeah, every day, every day. Trust me, every day. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I like that. Yep, that's good, man.

Well, I appreciate you coming on, dude. And end with whatever you want, something we didn't talk about that you wanted to cover, or something positive and make people feel good and wide open. Anything you want, you wrap it up with.

Wow. Yep.

I always end this way and I give no direction at all.

Uh, compound interest affects more than our finances. Yeah.

Okay.

Compound interest affects more than everything you do compounds. We talked about the ski hill. Yeah, right. And I've just, I've just seen it in life, like decisions you make, you know, good or bad. Like if you make a bad one, well, we better make a good one and start, start the snowball rolling the other way. I just think that's where I've gotten to in my life with, with my fitness journey, with business is, is little things add up. And you can't, you can't imagine how these little drops in the bucket of, you know, I just put in the time today. It was honestly, it was a shitty day. I didn't work out my best, but I was here. I put in the time. You sometimes you're going to have those days. You have those days in fitness, you're going to have those days in business. But the other option was like, I didn't feel like it today, so I didn't go. Like, ooh, there's a big difference between those two. Right? There's a big difference between making a bad investment and making an investment that's like, meh, it wasn't great, but it, it's there, you know? Yeah. What, what happens to that little one 30 years from now, you can never predict, right? And so yeah, that's what I just try to teach my kids, is that the way you do anything is the way you do everything. And so you, you have to like focus on that. Like, it might not happen today, but 10 years from now, 15 years from now, 30 years from now, where are you going to end up, you know? So, and maybe that was a John Maxwell thing, start with the end in mind.

Maybe I've heard that. I don't know who said that, but I've heard that too.

Yeah, yeah, start with the end and work backwards. Yeah, right. And that's, that's a great way to kind of open your mindset up to that concept that Everything has compounding effects.

It's a good one. I like that one. I mean, the title of this bitch, awesome. Good shit, man. Well, I appreciate your time, dude. Thanks for sharing, and, uh, I'm sure we'll talk soon because, yeah, I'm getting close, bro, and I gotta, I'm, I gotta make sure I'm ready with all the other stuff. Physically, I feel great. Um, so I appreciate all your, your help and input and Yeah, even little things you don't notice that you do to help. So thanks for your time, dude. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited about that. It made me push hard today when I heard that. I was like, oh, I'm gonna push today. I'm gonna see if I can get a new 5K record.

Yeah, yeah, good. Yeah, I didn't—

yeah, the hay isn't really looking forward that much.

So the training's— the training's done right after this week, right? So like my coach told me, all you can do is get in the way of yourself now. So just, just get out of the way and let your body perform to what it's capable of performing. You'll be fine. Nothing you can do in the last 2 weeks is going to get you in better shape, you know? Yeah. You're not going to lose your fitness in 2 weeks. Just go out there and do it. And yeah, we'll be in touch on the phone for sure.

I love it, man.

Appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.

Yeah, always. Won't be the last one, dude. We'll talk soon.

Okay.

All right, guys. Later.