How I Make $10,000 PER WEEK From Referrals In Insurance Sales ft. Christina Ande | Ep78

How many apps you writing off referrals a week, you think?

It's at least 50% of my business. So I usually write like $10K a week, probably like $5,000, $6,000 of that every week.

Just asking, telling them that you're calling beneficiaries. Easy business when you play the game right. Welcome back, y'all. Another episode of the Insurance Insights Podcast. This is John Wetmore. I have Christina. How do I pronounce it? Andy? Ande? How do we mess it up?

Andy. I like it. Andy. Cool.

I should probably do a better job prepping in advance, but I don't. I just like to get to know people live. Yeah, welcome, Anne. I've heard some good things about you. I've seen you on social. I think Grady recommended we have you on, actually. Um, so my guess is you work directly or somewhere in his group.

Yeah, somewhere down the lineage there.

So yeah, yeah, happens. It happens to all of us. Cool deal. So I, I know you get a lot of referral business. And I think you've been with us, you've been with FFL for a hot minute, but you've been in business what, 4 or 5 years?

Is that right? No. Oh, I wish.

I know, did I make that up?

I know, it would make my journey a lot easier. Well, I have been in insurance for almost 5 years.

That's what I meant.

Yeah, yeah. I've been in business.

Yep.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. In the business. Yeah. But now at FFL for a year and a half.

So. Okay. Very cool. Selling remote. What do you sell? What's your, what do you specialize in?

Yeah. I mean, I, I do all virtual sales, telesales, uh, nothing crazy, but I'm mostly doing, you know, like veterans and like aged, aged vets, and just kind of Final Expense and referral business.

So I love it, I love it. Cool deal. So 5 years on the bit. Why'd you say you wish— you said something like it would have been easier, or something's happening, some kind of hiccup.

Sounds it. Um, I started off captive, so, you know, I did the captive side of things for a little over 3 years, and I'm like really grateful for the experience, of course, but, you know, it definitely makes you learn things the hard way. So yeah, so Life side too?

You're selling Life on the captive side?

Got it. Yeah, I've always been in Life. I mean, I have accident and health, but I just, you know, prefer Life.

Yeah, I don't mess with that. How'd you get in?

What was that?

How'd you get in it?

Oh, COVID.

COVID made you get into insurance?

Yeah.

Why?

You know, I was in fashion for like 8 years, and I was like a sales rep in fashion for like 10 fashion lines, and I loved what I was doing. I went to school for that, all the things. But then COVID hit and I lost my job. It just became completely obsolete.

So no way. Yeah, fashion shows went away.

Yeah, yeah, everything shut down. So when that happened, my boss was like, oh yeah, like, just wait another month, wait another month. And I was like, literally my pockets were draining, and I'm like, I can't wait another month. So I was looking around everywhere, and the only thing I kept seeing was like insurance and logistics. And I was like, well, of the two, I'd rather do insurance. So here I am 5 years later.

Nuts. Who are you selling to in fashion? What did you sell?

I basically sold to boutiques, so I would represent the fashion line themselves. I was kind of like the middleman between the designer and then the boutiques. So it was more of like wholesale. Yeah, yeah. And it was cool. I liked it. But, you know, I mean, I'm thankful. It's like so weird, right? You always like connect the dots looking backwards. I'm so thankful though that everything happened the way it did because Now here I am, and I don't think I'll ever leave insurance. I don't think I could.

So you pissed that— you had to be pissed then, I guess.

Oh yeah, at the time I was like, what the hell? Like, insurance is not sexy. Like, I did not sign up for this. Like, I don't think this is gonna be my life. And now, I mean, grateful, you know?

Crazy. It's wild. Um, cool. How's the— how's the journey been treating you? As I assume financially doing better? How is it relative to what you were selling before?

Yeah, uh, world's different, is it? Right.

Oh my gosh, let's hear it. I want to know more.

So when you're in like fashion sales, right, unless you're like the main showroom owner, you're not making great commission. My commission was like non-existent, right? So it was like 1 to 3% on orders. So you're making a very, very small fraction. And then most showroom owners are either paying their people like salary, which is not Great. Um, usually you're looking at like maybe starting around like $50,000, you know, and then yeah, and then obviously longer there, maybe it's a little higher. But a lot of, uh, showroom owners, they honestly just do like hourly, right? So you're kind of like clocking your hours. Um, it's a lot of weekends, a lot of travel. I was the Midwest territory, so I'd have to literally pack up you know, an entire like U-Haul van of like product and drive in snowy conditions. So being able to like sit in my office and, uh, not worry about climate and just call people on the phone, yeah, much easier.

I love it, love it. Yeah, did it, did it start out easy or hard in insurance?

It was the beginning, like It's definitely hard. I mean, I remember my first, you know, 2 weeks of training, and I mean, it was way different then, but I did like 2 weeks of like training videos before I could even really get on the phones, right? And then I was setting appointments for other people, and then they finally let me get out there, and I went like 0 for 11, right? And at my starter company where I was, I was like Zoom calls, so I'd be on these Zoom meetings with people for like 2 hours because I'm a yapper, and it would be a no, and I'd be like, oh my gosh, right? And I'd be like, what, what do you mean no? You just gave me like 17 referrals of your family. You told me you love me, and you're saying no to insurance? Uh, so I had a hard time. I, I had to learn how to get out of the friend zone, you know, into the end zone type of thing with clients. Um, so it was an adjustment. It was an adjustment for sure.

How does one do that? I see so many agents struggle with that at the beginning.

Yeah, yeah.

They just, they think that's the key to sales.

Yeah, I think it's just structured rapport, right? It's being able to remain in control. You know, when a new agent, you don't always know how to do that, but I think like being able to refocus conversation, like build the rapport and make the client comfortable, of course, and be okay with doing that, but be able to structure it back to the main reason that you're there. And I lacked that ability in the beginning, for sure.

What made you change?

Uh, being broke, having to— like, I need to get paid, damn it. Yeah, and start selling, baby.

I love it. Frustration will do it. That's what made me change. I was like, this sucks. They keep telling me to say these things and I'm not saying them. I should probably try it.

Yeah. Yeah. And the coachability is huge. I think like coachability is what gets you, you know, there faster for sure. People like, you know, I always say like nothing I do is something I just figured out on my own. Sure, eventually I'd figure it out, but the people that have been there before you, they know how to get there. So just listen to whatever they say to do and do it as fast as you can.

Yeah, steal it. Yeah. So was 20— have you— so this is your first full calendar year then, 25? Yeah, mid last year or sometime. Or did you do all of last year?

Um, nope, it was like end of March pretty much. So cool.

Yeah. How'd last year go for you? What'd you end up with last year?

Oh, last year was— I, I won't lie, I took a kind of a, a back seat. I mean, I did $100,000, but not, you know, I think compared to where I was coming from of always doing like over $200,000, I was like It was a— it was an adjustment year for me for sure, just mostly because I took all the vacations I didn't take my first couple years. I took all the time off. I always laugh because, you know, Jay Maska, he's the agency owner, you know, that I work with, and he's, he's so funny. Like, he always says like, yeah, you, you know, he's like, you took time for yourself that you probably never had. I'm like, yeah, 100%. Um, so I, I milked it, but this year I'm like well over that. I'm almost at 200 already, and we're looking at August, so it'll be a much better year.

3, 3 plus, 300 plus, easy.

Um, yeah, yeah, I'm hoping to end strong. Obviously Hall of Fame would be the goal, so gotta really max out these next couple months.

Make it happen, make it happen. What's the, what's the key to— what are some things you've— besides the time off, what are some things that looking back you're like, dang, I only got this piece right? I could have been at $30K a month sooner.

Yeah.

What are some big, like, non-negotiables for you that make it all work?

I think for me, and this is something that, you know, I, I've gone back and forth with in all years of insurance, is I need, like, higher purpose. Like, I need to have a team, right? Last year I didn't have a team. I, I didn't, you know, I took a step back and I said, okay, well, I'm just going to produce. And I didn't have that higher responsibility And I think when you're responsible for others, you push yourself further. So it's something that I know for myself now that I'm like, yeah, I'll never not have a team again and not have people that need me because I need that myself to like drive, drives you.

So it pushes you to sell more when you're leading others.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because you have to lead from the front, right? So it's not like I've never looked at having a team is like making money off of others. I just truly like to help people, and I know by helping people that naturally along the way you make more money. So it's just, uh, lead with good intent and higher purpose, it all comes back tenfold.

So it's funny, there's a lot of people who have teams and they don't want to be the top producer on their own team. They want, they want to not produce. I'm sure you see it, you've been around.

I mean, I love the, the conversations. I know crazy. It's like, you know, people will say, oh, well, don't you want to like get out of the field? I'm like, no, I don't. Maybe one day I will, right? But I, I don't know. I just think it's— I think it's important, at least at this stage where I'm at.

For sure. It's a, it's a kill— y'all got a killer group. Jay's leading a hell of a team. It's crazy why I've been watching the growth. Yeah, last couple years, he's blowing the hell up. So it's working. Yeah, it is working. What's your, what's your week look like? What's a structured typical week for you?

Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty much, you know, like Monday through Saturday morning, so I, I pretty much work 6 out of 7 days. I mean, I won't lie, I don't work every Saturday, but I try to really max out like my Monday through Friday where it's very structured. So I'm up 4:30, 4:45 usually, try to get a workout in in the morning. I'm at the office. We actually just opened an office here in Scottsdale. Um, Yeah, it's really nice. So I like to be here by 7:00 because I have a lot of East Coast and Central Time people and I'm in Arizona, so I like to be here early enough that we could do some sort of like, you know, sales training or do something and hop on the phones. I like to get right to it. And then pretty much it's just like dial blocks, right? I like to dial in the morning, midday I'll take some recruiting calls, then I dial again. And then like 2 or 3 days a week, my team— I mostly have like a girls team, which is really nice. We call call it girls night and we'll stay, you know, extra late and dial all the late time zones. So, um, but yeah, try to max out as much as we can during the week so that people can actually feel like they have time to reset, you know, going into the next week.

So 7 AM is an early day. What's a late day? Uh, what's ladies night? How late's it run?

Usually till 8 Pacific. Nice. Oh nice. I know I could do the 9, I could do the, you know, 7 to 9, but I, I'll be honest, I got a fiancé at home. He needs, he needs dinner at some point, so he does.

I love it. Are you trying to one-call close? You booking appointments, or what's your, what's your goal?

Yeah, I actually only really do, uh, one-call close for the most part. I mean, I do obviously have times that I book appointments, but I don't have like an appointment center, or, you know, I'm self-gen. I just, I honestly, I just really rock like aged leads and just call to close and then collecting and running wraps off of them. And I think the nice thing about it is that like when you do that in front of your agents who don't have a lot of capital in the beginning, they learn that it's really achievable rather than saying, oh, well, I'm not successful because I don't spend $2,000 a week on leads, right? Like my lead expense is like $350 a week most.

So, so you're writing $30K on $350 a week. Yeah, life is good. It was good. What, what age leads you call them? What type?

Old? Um, I do, so I do the aged veteran leads.

That's what you mentioned that. So aged final expense, what age, what, how old are you going back?

Um, it really just depends. So like the, the lead vendor I use, it kind of does it by different categories. So some are like 45 days or older, um, some are like 6 months old, and then some go up to like a year old. I just think any lead is a good a good lead.

Do you approach them any different?

No, call them all.

Just call them like they filled it out this morning.

Oh no, I call them all like I'm really sorry that I have to do it so long to get back to them. You want to hear it?

Hell yeah.

Yeah, I basically say, okay, hey John, oh my gosh, it's Christina. Andy, how are you?

Doing good.

Oh good. Hey John, I am so sorry. I know it's taken us so long to get back to you here. I was actually calling about the form you filled out a while back, veterans life insurance. What's going on with that?

Just like that. I fucking love it. What's your typical answer? Oh, what do you get back?

Yeah, I don't know, someone called but I don't really know. Oh my gosh, you didn't get it taken care of? Hey, that's exactly why I'm calling. Go ahead and grab a pen and paper for me, only takes 2-3 minutes. And then I just go right into it. It's really simple, but I've realized that, you know, this is something like Harold Duran says all the time too. Like he says, like, lead with apology. People don't want to listen until they think you're on their side., right? So it's like, how are you going to call on each lead and stick out different than the person before you? Because they could have just gotten called 10 minutes ago. They could have gotten called 17 times yesterday and be pissed off. So I just feel like lead with compassion. If you're on their side, they're going to listen. You're like, oh no, well, you filled it out. Well, yeah, I'd freaking hang up on you too. You're an ass. You know, like, be nice. They don't want another, like, asshole. They want someone to, like, hear what they actually have to say.

So I mean, It's not always the lead. That's the problem, huh?

Yeah, yeah. And I'll call— like, the thing too is that you'll have people say like they're not interested, don't call them. I call them back the next day, same exact thing. And sometimes they're just ready to talk now, like it's just a bad day, right person, wrong time. So I never count someone out unless they really say like, never call me again, I'm calling the police. That's fun.

That's it. That's when you tap out.

Yeah, I love it.

Hey guys, just created something really cool, and if you want to be part of join the Discord group I just created. The link is going to be in here. It's a dope environment. You can chat with others that are kind of in the community. You can see beyond the curtain of our agency, have access to all kinds of stuff that we got going on, events. And my staff is in there. We have agents in there selling, me helping agents and sharing information. We're going to, as we build this thing out, share everything out there with all of you guys. So again, follow the Discord if you want to be part of everything we got going on. Join it now. We'll see you in there. Hope to help you more. Do you put notes on your shit or do you just call them back?

And I do, um, if it— if they say like not interested the first time, it's more of a mental note because I do have like new agents that dial and I don't want them to see like a note that I put on there. That's why I was asking, uh, but if it's like been the second or third time and they're being nasty, like I'll finally make a note of like, uh, maybe they're not interested. Yeah, makes sense. I usually like to call them 3s.

Yeah, you call them multiple times?

Oh yeah, I do like 3 dials in a row, 3 times a day, so like 9 times in a day.

Yeah, I love it. My model still works. People still— people, people either do it or they get, you know, get mad and say it doesn't work and they're broke. And I'm like, you should try it, it works pretty good.

A lead is a lead. I always say, like, when I first started last year, you know, the production that I did was literally off of 75% referrals and then bronze leads. That's it. Like, I had never even called an aged vet. Aged vet to me was like high intent, you know, like, because I hadn't called anything that wasn't over like a year old. So, you know, I think it's just how you treat them. If you look at it as like, you know, high intent, and it'll feel like high intent.

So it's funny, I watched a video of a dude last night, and I love you if you're watching this, bro, He was like, if you're one of those people that says a lead's a lead— and then he went on to tell us how bad we all are nicely. He didn't mean it meanly, but you know. Yeah, I was like, ah, I don't know, man. I think the way you think about it could affect the way the outcome happens. Yeah, a little bit. Um, how many of those suckers you get in a week, age leads, roughly?

Like 50.

Okay, how many, how many, how many will you book out of that, you think?

Um, like Buck or like us?

Yeah, how many will pick up? And let's go through, like, how many, how many you get on the phone and then how many will you sell?

Let's just— yeah, I would say out of those in a week, I would probably get at least— I'll get at least like 7 to 10 pickups, you know what I mean, in a day. Of course, out of those, I mean, probably even more, right? Because I cycle through. Um, but I'm probably getting like, I would say, you know, 2, 3 prezos a day from that really, like, you know, going through it. And then from there, at least 1, 2 closes. So, you know, the biggest thing is, is that why I kind of focus on the 50s— you really have to work them to get the answers with aged. That's just kind of how it is. Um, but, you know, once you're doing that, I mean, it gets you— you got— you make your money back in once, you know, one. Yeah.

So when you say work them, are you talking about dialing, or you something else? Did you mean something else?

Well, both, right? So between actually dialing them and then I use a CRM, so they send text messages. I like to hand dial from my phone first when I first call them, and then the second half of the day I put them through my dialer and I rotate numbers. So it really just kind of depends. Sometimes you hit a lead pack and I really think it just depends on the pack, right? Sometimes you hit Every single number is answered. Yeah. And it's like a goldmine. Sometimes it's just like a bad week, but you have to just stay consistent in like your buying habits, I feel, and just keep, you know, keep the money going.

So makes sense. Out of— so out of something like that, what's the— what's your referral deal? I know you get a lot of them. How many do you— do you have a number you're shooting for a week or an appointment, or what's your strategy there? How many— how many of those are you getting and closing?

Yeah, I mean, every person I speak 2, I got at least like 2 to 3, whether it's a sale or not, which is such a small number when you think about it, but it adds up so quickly, right? So I mean, usually with someone like, let's say I, you know, I meet with you and then, you know, you give me your— let's just say your 2 sisters and your brother. Well, then I can literally call them later today and then have those immediate appointments. So it's also why I don't have to work my leads as hard or buy as many, just because those people who know I'm calling are a lot more likely to book an appointment and show, or to answer when I first call them, or now, you know, who know who I am. Um, but I would say, yeah, my referrals are like an 80% close. So sick.

Yeah. How do you get people to give you that many names a week? What's the magic to it?

I basically just, um, such an easy business. Yeah. Uh, you utilize like beneficiaries mostly to get it started, and then I ask for insurance referrals at the end. So anytime that someone puts a beneficiary, I just simply say like, okay, John Wetmore, hey, we're going to make sure that your, you know, your two sisters and your brother, you have it split evenly between them, that they all know how your policy works. God forbid something happens to you. Do you want me to go over just the name of the company or the full policy details? And then the client tells me what they want to go over. Is it just the name of the company and the policy number or everything? So right in that moment, they're giving me permission to go over that in some capacity.

And then I say with their beneficiary. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Okay, great. Well, hi. Obviously this made sense to you. We're going to make sure that your, you know, your family's taken care of as well with their own insurance. Take it or leave it makes no difference to me, but we'll make sure we mention it. So anyways, and then I just go back.

That's, you know, as I'm going through the presentation, you just tell them you're calling the beneficiaries.

Yeah.

Yeah, essentially. And you're getting their contact info as part of it. Who's the beneficiary, date of birth, phone number, all that jazz right off the rip.

I tell them that straight, you know, as we're going through, and then I recap it at the end. So it's kind of like, you know, I already dropped that little nugget. They already know it's happening. If they were going to ever object to me on reaching out, it would have been right then and there. But if obviously they don't, because they're like, yeah, it makes sense. And then at the end, I'm just— I kind of like— I like to use the acronym VIBS. So it's like a value, important, beneficial, and suggest. So the very last thing I do with my clients is I'll say, okay, John Wetmore, hey, last thing before I let you go, scale of 1 to 10, how did I do for you today? We'll give usually a 10 or higher, which is always great. So first they solidify me as their agent, right?

I like that.

That's important because I don't want the next guy to call and try to like pull a fast one. And then I say, okay, great. Well, of everything we covered, what did you feel was most important to your family? So now they're solidifying their sale, and then I go into beneficiaries. Okay, great. Well, hey, obviously you have your two sisters, your brother. We're going to make sure they know about your policy like I promised you. Other than your brothers and, you know, your, your sisters and your brother, I know there's some other people in your life that could really benefit from the life insurance. So let's make sure they're taken care of as well. You actually mentioned that you guys are pretty close to your neighbors, that they just bought a house too. Let's go ahead and start with them. Who's your neighbors? So I just start suggesting anyone that they mentioned during the phone call. So being chatty, it's a, it's a benefit, right? Because people tell you things. So you just start identifying groups of people.

Do you get any pushback, or most people just like, here's the info?

Obviously you're gonna get some, right? So some people, oh, let me talk to this person first, right? That's a big one. Oh, absolutely. I actually can't reach out to them until you let them know. But let's go ahead and put their name and number down because I'm super busy. Go ahead with that number. I love it. You know, I just think if you lead with confidence and a smile, it sounds so corny, but like genuinely, like, you got what you want.

So yeah, I agree. This business is a lot easier than we tend to make it, especially when we're new and we overthink everything. Yeah, definitely, definitely messed a lot of that up. Crazy. So you don't, you don't have them— do you have them notify the person that you're going to call them, or you just call them out of the blue? You do?

Yeah, I'll tell them. I'll— I usually like recap it. So anyone that they gave me, you know, throughout that or at the end, I'll just say, okay, so you have this person, this person, this person. Like, do me a favor, let them know I'm gonna reach out. I'm super busy. I can't reach out to them till tonight between 5 and 7. Can you let them know before then? And they'll say, yeah. And so I like to give more of like a time frame of when I'm available so that it puts more urgency for them to actually reach out. Because if you leave it to people to like do it when they have time, it's not going to happen.

So it's true, it's the little things. That was a hell of a key detail a lot of people miss out on. That's good. Yeah, I love it. Okay, so then that was the third. Is there another letter on that acronym? Did we get the last one?

I think you're just suggesting— yeah, suggest other people, right?

Oh, I see. Got it, got it, got it. Yeah, yeah, makes sense. Cool. Very cool. And you're getting— how many apps you're writing off referrals a week, you think?

Um, like usually it's at least 50% of my business, so I usually write like 10K a week, like minimum, and submit. So I'd say probably like 6, 5, 6,000 of that usually every week, just asking, telling them that you're calling beneficiaries.

Easy business when you play the game right. Yeah, I love it.

And it's everything of like promising, right? Like I love to use it like, this is key and really, like, what we really teach is, like, when you make a promise to someone, you're going to hold up that promise, right? So if I'm like, hey, I promise I'm going to go over this with your family, they already know you're doing them a service. Because I think what people forget is, like, beneficiaries, they don't get that money if they don't know about the policy, and they don't get that money if they don't actually put in a claim. Like, it's not like the insurance company just knows that someone died. So, like, you're doing them a service by making sure someone actually knows, and that this policy they're paying all this money into that it will actually go to them. So people are really appreciative. I think sometimes people are scared to reach out because they think, oh, what if they tell them not to have a policy? Well, I've never had someone complain about getting thousands of dollars.

So I think we're limiting beliefs right there, you know what I mean? Like limiting beliefs and like, what if they— and they go negative.

Yeah, yeah.

What if they keep it and they refer their friend too?

Yeah, what if it solidified your whole, you know, your whole time that you just spent with them.

That's how— Have you ever tracked one where you're like, you sold me and then I gave you a referral and then they gave you a referral? Like how deep it went? Yeah. Have you ever tracked that? Have you?

Yeah, I get asked that a lot. And I think the most in a family, like in just one family, has been like 36 policies. Yeah. And that's like an original client that gave me siblings that all have adult children and they all got, you know, policies for them. Then they have small kids, so there was child policies for all of them. Then you know, their friends. Honestly, it might be more than that, but that was like the immediate family.

Yeah.

And it's all spread out between other states, which is cool. Like, you just see how the family tree like evolves.

So what's funny is Sean has always taught us after a couple years in business, you shouldn't need leads. And very few people take his advice on that, but he's been screaming that. I've known him since shit, 20 10 or something, and I've been hearing them say that one of the few that takes it. Um, how's your team with it? You got a— your ladies night, are they doing as good on the referral thing?

Yeah, honestly, I'm so proud of them. Like, honest, because it's something that I think when you make it something you always talk about, it's all they know. And I almost think sometimes when they get around other teams that don't collect and run referrals, they're like, oh, why wouldn't they do that? That's so stupid. Like, it's so easy. And I'm like, yeah, girls, tell them, right? Like, because it is true. But it's all they know. So like, I really try to enforce that of like, hey, how many referrals do you get? But I think what you talk about is what you're going to be about. So I think that's really huge. But when they see the success with referrals and see how easy those conversations are, like, they're more motivated to do it. So we started doing— and like, I have people track their like nightly numbers essentially of like, you know, dials, presentations, closes, any objections they need help with, that sort of thing. And we have referrals. On there too. So I think having that as some sort of standard that they look to strive for is important for that.

Got it. Love it. How many, how many agents you have selling now in your team?

Um, writing agents, I have— yeah, yeah, I have like 13 just about. I mean, it's— yeah, it's growing, you know, cranking out some volume. Ah, trying, trying. Right now we're still kind of small. We're, you know, like $50,000, a little over $50,000 a month. So we're definitely on the slow and steady, but we're reaching to crush, you know, $100,000 a month soon and then go up from there.

So I remember being there like it was yesterday. Yeah. And I remember Grady being there like it was yesterday, and I remember Andrew Taylor being there like it was yesterday, and the whole— I didn't know Jay very well. I didn't get to meet him till much later on, but yeah, he was there once too, you know what I mean? It's like, it's just part of the game. Um, so I think if you keep keep doing what you're doing, helping people. Yeah, gross. You're around such good people that know how to do this thing.

Yeah.

Um, did you always want, like, have this leadership, I want to build something mentality, or is this new, or what's the—

No, I'll be honest, like, when I was on the captive side, I, I was kind of— I don't want to say forced, but kind of forced into that side of things. And I think because of being forced into that, I felt almost like a bitterness towards it, where I almost didn't feel ready. Um, I also just think I didn't really align with the foundation of what was going on, so I think that was hard. But I am— when I came to AFL, it was just something that was just like natural, right? Like, I just, I wanted to do it and it just made sense. And it was no longer about like, oh, that's the only way you can make money because producers make money here, right? So it's like, it wasn't about that, and it made it more I don't know, I guess appetizing, right? Like it made me want to do it. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I think naturally I've always— I mean, I was always like a manager in some capacity at every stage of my life. So I think leadership is something I enjoy. But in the insurance space, the way now, like I actually really enjoy it, which I didn't always enjoy that side of things.

So it becomes a lot easier to enjoy when you figure it out. And start paying well. Yeah, you've been able to do some cool stuff with the money yet, like live different a little bit or enjoy any of it, or what do you do?

Yeah, of course, of course. You know, you do the whole— when I was early in insurance, you buy the nice car, right? You do all the things, and it was great. I love that. But now I think I just kind of like the little things. Like, I don't, I don't know if that makes sense. I think you used to be really big into like the material things, and now I'm like, oh, The material things are cool, but I'd rather like buy something for someone or like throw some sort of competition. And, you know, I get more— I don't know, more satisfied out of it now.

Yeah, that shit does get boring. Yeah, I have all my stuff, I don't even wear it. I don't wear the watch.

Yeah, love nice things, but it also is like, well, you know, they're just sitting there, so Crazy.

What's been the hardest part about this journey for you?

Wow, that's a good question. I think hardest thing, hmm, I think not being so like, not being too hard on myself. Sometimes I feel like I, I will hit like a you know, next obstacle of like, oh well, this is good, but I don't live in, in the moment of like, this is good, I want something next and better. And feeling like, oh well, I should be here, like, you know what I mean? I, oh, I should be here. So not that you should, right? Knowing that you have to put in the work to get to the next level. But I think that's sometimes hard, right? When you're not an overachiever, but like you just have big dreams, you got to still be able to live in the moment and be happy in the space that you're in while still reaching for the next thing. I think that's a little, little tough.

That's, that's hard forever. So far, I think that continues to stay hard for me. I can relate a lot. A lot of, a lot of us get that, you know.

Yeah, yeah. Forces too, right? So you have outside people who maybe aren't in the business or, you know, are like, oh, well, you're doing so well, you should be happy with that. And they see the big picture of how much more you could be doing. And like, you know, comparison is a thief of all joy, right? You can't, can't be doing that. But it's also hard not to when you're seeing all these big things around you and you just sort of like, okay, I just want to be there now. Impatience.

Yeah, that makes sense. If you're in the insurance space and trying to build an agency, or you're trying to like break records in sales just hit new levels, new heights, click the link below to apply to my consulting and coaching program that I have out there. I'm helping tons of people get to new levels, get to new income heights, help them build their teams, put systems in place, staffing stuff, recruiting processes, automations. I'm just teaching people how to get to a point where they're selling on their own pen 30, 40, 50 grand a month. And if they're building a team, teaching how to have an effective structure to your insurance agency for the most profitability you can. There is an application process. I'm only looking to work with like high-end people who really want to make big things happen. A couple recent clients that we've had in the, in the coaching program, one dude as an individual went from selling like $8,000 a month, barely getting by, about to quit the industry, found the book, hit me up direct, started the coaching program, went to $35,000 his first month, has issued like $150,000 in the last 90 days and has changed the trajectory of his career working with another agency builder. Very first month went from doing like $800 grand a month to almost $1.1 million. We added like 10 or 15% production in 30 days and continue to work on things there. So if you're interested, click the link, apply, and if you're a fit, I'll reach out. What do you see from your perspective? Because you're obviously— you are doing well. Your team, obviously small and figuring out and doing well. The team you're a part of is massive. Of, um, and they spit out a ton of fucking elite high-level producers and managers. What do you, what do you think is the reason for that? Like, why, why do you, why do you think so many people just go in? And because you see people in the industry that start and don't do anything, and they come in your world and it's like they blow up.

It's like the culture, right? Like, I just— and I'm not one to be like, oh yeah, rah-rah, but like genuinely, I think when you're surrounded by so many high-level people and you have so many people like at your fingertips to go and ask questions it's like a plug and play system. And I just think a lot of people are like willing and able to do the plug and play. Right. That, I think that's a huge part of it. I mean, I know it's, it's crazy to see the numbers. Like I, I see the growth, I see all the, you know, and it, it's insane. But I also just think it's a lot of like plug and play. I think everyone has the humility to realize like they're not the best at everything and everyone's asking everyone for help. And I don't think I've ever really been in an environment like that where like people were so willing to tell you everything they're doing. I think in the past, I've been on a lot of teams where they want to hold everything close to their chest, right? Oh, I don't want to tell them because then everyone's going to do it. And but it's like, genuinely, I don't think anyone in this agency would ever like hold a secret and not tell, even like a lead vendor, which is like crazy because a lot of people hold that, you know, close to their chest too.

So they do. They do. That's wild. Yeah, that's neat. Craziness. Give them some— I don't know, what, what are the top couple things, maybe something we haven't covered yet, that you give out for advice to new people getting started?

Um, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Top things. I think, um, you know, kind of going back to like the new agents, how like people struggle with structured rapport. I'm a big acronym person, so people will hate me for this, but, um, another thing I like to use is FORM, F-O-R-M. So family, occupation, recreation, money, medical. And I think like if you just put a Post-it note on your computer, FORM, you know, it kind of helps you navigate certain conversations because like, let's be real, everyone's script is different, right? I mean, I've seen a million scripts in my time, but there's always a way to find where those things make sense. So family, obviously they're getting life insurance in any capacity, they care about someone, right? Figure out who that is or why they're getting it. It's either, you know, for themselves if it's a living benefit type of situation, or it's, you know, for the people that they care about. So expanding on that, not just like being like, oh yeah, your, your wife is your beneficiary and that's it, right? Like you don't know anything about them. It's going to be hard to kind of build that extra value. Occupation is the easiest thing because if you're talking to retired people, like, well, what did you do for work? Um, obviously I run H Vets as far as my leads, and so like if they hang out with their veteran buddies, a lot of people still hang out, you know, with their vet buds. So it's an easy way to identify people later as well, structured report. Um, if they are still working, like figuring out what that is, and it helps you build again, you know, what you can show them and finding those maybe, you know, annuity situations too. Um, recreation, what they're doing for fun, easy way to build conversation, but also a good way for you to just seem like a normal person. Like, if it's Tuesday, what did they do last weekend? Well, who did they do it with? You know what I mean? Like, easy stuff. Um, and then me, money, medical, I always just think is like the easiest way to like, tie it all in a bow. Like, me, I need to be a real person. I can't just be asking a million questions and they have no relation to me. Then they don't like me, they're not going to stay with me. Yeah, right. So making yourself known, uh, medical is one thing that I feel like, yeah, obviously we ask medical questions, but we leave a lot of money on the table by not asking medical of people's friends, or not just friends but family. Like, especially like with everyone writing IULs now, people wait to ask those questions about immediate family until they're writing that application and they're like, oh, any immediate family that had, you know, heart attack, stroke, cancer, and now they have to, you know, address it on there. Where if you ask that earlier, you could build more concern around it and build more, you know, kind of like, oh, well, this happened to this person. We'll make sure this is taken care of for you because that might run in the family. Like, it not only builds that awareness Um, but it also allows you to then use those people as referrals later on as well, because I get a lot of stories too.

Shit ton of stories about good, bad, ugly, all of it.

Yeah, so not— you're always kind of like building the need. Like, I don't really ever have people say like they don't need it, right? Like, I think that's not really ever something that people object, you know. They're usually objecting either they want to think about it, or, you know, maybe price or whatever. But, you know, that's— you're kind of avoiding that by building such a need. Um, and then, yeah, me, money, medical. Obviously money, you figure out what they have to work with. Um, don't be afraid to ask the money questions because that's how you wind up in a bad situation, over-pitching someone or, you know, overselling them, and the policy doesn't go through because they make $500 a month and you sold them you know, $200 a month policy.

So how deep are you getting into their money?

I mean, I just got— I just flat out ask them, hey, working, retired, disabled, what does that look like? They say like disability or Social Security. I'm asking like, is that going on a Direct Express card? You have a bank account? Like, I'm not afraid to ask those questions upfront and then ask, okay, well, what exactly are you bringing in monthly? Okay, is that just you? What about your spouse? Are you guys— are your finances together or separate? Who's going to be affected if something like that happens? Are you both going to be affected, or is it just your wife affected? What does that look like? Run me through what that scenario would be for you. Like, you know, it's just diving deeper than what a regular script says. Realize that this is a real-life situation and paint the picture rather than just do the bases, you know, cover the bases. Because when people know that you care, then they realize the importance.

So even the way in the wording it, you know, those of y'all watching, just paying attention to the way she's asking the questions is implying that there's problems versus this like, hey, what do you need today? Kind of approach. Yeah, I see a lot of new agents just sort of— you said, how'd you— would you word that, the rapport thing? How'd you— would you call that— you said something intentional rapport? What's the way you worded Oh, um, you said it twice.

Yeah, I did. What did I say? Something structured.

Structured rapport. Yeah, like, meaning don't just go ask about the cabinets to build fake rapport. Like, yeah, the report's on purpose. Yeah, is the way you're going about things. Um, but at the same time, you're very direct about your understanding that they're going to be in trouble somewhere. You just need them to tell you where, sounds like.

I mean, there's a reason people fill it out, right? Like, people aren't just searching for life insurance on accident. There is some sort of reason, whether they want more coverage, they've never had coverage, they couldn't get approved for coverage, they don't know where to start with coverage, you know, people are curious. Whatever it is, there's a reason that they filled it out. So our job is to figure out what's the reason, what's the problem, provide the solution. It's a simple process. Like, I don't sell life insurance. Life insurance sells itself. I'm just there to help guide them to the right product for them.

Yeah, it was as simple as that process you just explained and form, which I like. Where do agents mess this up? Like, what pieces are they not doing right when they're new?

I think the easiest answer is new agents have commission breath, right? When we need to get paid, we're focused on a sale. We're not focused on a person. Take yourself out of it. I think where people mess up is they use the word I. I never use the word I. It's not about what I can do for you, right? It's about what do you need, how can we work together to find a solution, and then this is what the company can offer you so that we're working together as a team. I'm not putting myself in a power position. I like that. So I remain in control without having a power complex. And I think sometimes a new agent thinks, oh, well, I need to be the solution myself. You're not the solution. Take yourself out of it and work with them as a team, and you guys will work towards a common goal. And now you're on the same page. So take the eye out a lot. Don't focus on the commission, focus on the person. Like, I don't know, and this is is honestly probably bad to admit. Now I'm a little bit more attentive because I have agents that ask me these questions, but like, I genuinely couldn't tell you my commission breakdowns per carrier because I don't sell based on commission, right? I sell based on the client and what puts them in the best spot. Like, it took me a while to realize certain things, and I was like, oh, I didn't know that, right? Because when you're focused on the client, like, the money comes, you're not focused on that. But I think that's how you have to lead and You know, I don't know.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I had an agent try to come on with me like a month ago and he was wearing me out about the comp level on every single product in every single scenario on every single age bracket on every single— I'm like, dude, you think I know that shit, bro? He's like, you don't? Do you not?

How?

You can't be professional if you don't know that. I'm like, fine, I'll be an unprofessional. Fine. I'm just— but it works. Yeah, I don't know mine either. I mean, I can look it up and I see it, but who gives a shit?

Yeah. And that's like, you know, and it's funny, right? It's like the people who like care so much, oh, why did I get this? I'm like, it all evens out. Just help another person and you'll make up, you know, it's not— I don't know. But again, I think that's a big thing, right? When you take the pressure off of that and just put it on doing the right thing, like it all works out tenfold.

So I love it. I love it. What's, what's the goal for— besides obviously this year you're trying to wrap up your 300 plus, what's, what's, what's next year looking like? What are you trying to achieve?

Yeah.

In the future, what are you building towards right now?

Yeah, I mean, by the end of next year, I definitely at minimum want my team doing, you know, $250,000 a month. That's like baseline. I think I can achieve that sooner, to be honest. We hired 30 people last month, so nice. Rip in social media if you guys aren't recruiting on TikTok and Instagram, like like you're missing out. And again, like, it's nothing I've done different, it's just taking the advice. Jay said, hey, invest into marketing. I invested in marketing. Now people actually know what I do, and people just come to you. So, um, definitely want to be, you know, at least 250 a month by, uh, you know, hopefully, uh, starting next year. And, you know, going to go for Hall of Fame next year for sure, personal production, because I do think it's so important to Oh yeah, from the front and show people that if you produce on a high level that they can do it too.

So it's a fun club to be in. Yeah, same thing, like why not, why not join it?

Why not?

It's a good one to be in.

Red's a good color.

Sure, I love it. Um, so you said invest in marketing. What do you do there for the recruiting side? What are you doing?

Yeah, I mean, honestly, I just, you know, I think one thing that was kind of told to me is like, okay, if you go on, you know, your Instagram is like your professional business card. Card, right? It's like your social media business card, I should say. So people are going to your Instagram to see what you do. You need to have like a blueprint to where they actually know what you're doing. And I think for so long mine was all personal. So now it's a mix of personal and business to where if you look at my page, you see reels, you see regular content, but you know what I do, right? I have not only informational videos, but I also have, you know, comparing captive to broker. I have, you know, who's good to— for a candidate to start in life insurance. There's videos, you know, we're having a next round of content with some of my, my agents, and it's going to be their experiences. So having something that's like a digital blueprint of what you do. And then my TikToks are more like silly little videos, check them out, or, you know, what the day was, the reality of life insurance, like went 0 for 7 today, like, you know, yeah, like Stuff like that, that just people can relate to because people are searching life insurance. You know, virtual sales is blowing up. People want this opportunity. It's just if you're not posting, they're not going to find you.

Oh yeah, I see you there. Yeah, I'm gonna watch it now. I got you there. Oh good, I'm on TikTok. I got you on TikTok.

Oh good.

Okay, I've seen your stuff on Instagram.

Yeah, I mean, it's fun. I, um, Sometimes. And again, that's something like I really have to put more effort into because sometimes it is one of those things like I don't— if I'm not intentional about it, I don't post as much. So I'm really trying to post at least like 3 or 4 times a week. Like I noticed the last 2 weeks I kind of took a beat and my recruiting slowed down a little and I was like, okay, what the hell? Yesterday I posted a Reel, posted a TikTok, and what do you know, I have people self-booking themselves on my Calendly for opportunity calls. You know, so it's, it's— you just got to keep going even on the days you don't feel like posting. It's like, it's so simple, just do it.

You doing it all by yourself or you have staff or anything yet?

No, I have, um, I have these two content girls. I love them, they're awesome. So they, um, you know, they kind of help me shoot my content and creative direct and things like that, but I just bring them the prompts of what I want to do and they make it look nice.

I love it, it's good. So you're investing back in more is kind of the point. It's like this, to get this thing moving, you take some money, hence the personal production. Yeah, you know, we're not very big in the build just to build. We're like, all right, let's sell so we can invest and actually build something real. Yeah, which has been his model since the day I've known him, dude. It's been wild to watch this run. Oh, it's been fun. I'm glad, glad you're part of it. It's been neat to, uh, meet you and get to know you a little bit. I would love, um, just wrap it up with whatever you think The little souls out there watching would love to hear from you, whatever value you can add to them, however you want to end it.

I would love for you to just don't give up if you're thinking of doing this, if you're already doing this, like it's something that the people who, you know, stay the longest, they will figure it out at some point. You just gotta not quit. Like for some people, you know, it clicks right away. For other people it takes, you know, 3 months, 6 months. But if you put in the hard work, the hard work eventually pays off.. It's definitely not something that is for everyone, you know, take a look in the mirror, self-accountability. But if you're doing all the right things, eventually it'll click, and that click can change the rest of your life. So it did for mine. I know it will continue for others, and I'm just grateful.

I love it. Well, I appreciate you taking time out of your day to share. Yeah, thanks a lot. And if y'all are interested in more, follow her online, Christina Andy. Appreciate your time. Thanks. Say what's up to everybody at the office, and if I can help with anything, let me know.

Thank you so much, my girl.

Good to connect. What up, y'all? So YouTube memberships, we have one now. Right next to the subscribe button, there's a neon white join button. You can't miss it. Subscribe, whatever it says, click the link, get in there. I do a ton of coaching, teaching people how to dial, corrections, working on their presentations, working on their mindset. I will coach on theory, but I like coaching real-world stuff. And if you join the membership section, you're going to see live coaching where I am not only helping people, but every once in a while I get in there and dial myself. There's some cool videos coming out, tons of content. All the training videos will be directly on my YouTube channel that's available to members only, super easy to find. In order to access them, you have to join our exclusive training videos tier. Do More does not get access to the training videos. So join now if you're interested, click below. See you there.