How To Go From BROKE To $20k/Month Selling Insurance ft. Mohammed Masri | Ep107

You want to make sure that, one, you have the vision, and then two, you never want to like steer away from, you know, the business. So you always want to make sure that you're in the circle the longest. You ever seen those MrBeast videos where he's like, dude, the longest to stay in the circle gets a million dollars?

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So kind of like—

I like that.

If you look around, like, the top insurance managers, the top insurance producers, dude, they just stayed in the circle the longest.

True. So true. That's a good analogy. Appreciate you getting on the podcast, dude. Uh, appreciate I hear, uh, you were just closing, helping a new agent close deal. Uh, deal, did you get it done?

Yeah, man, so we ended up closing one. That's just kind of been my focus recently is just how do I get a new agent to $20,000 their first month, you know. It's, it's, that's, I think that's a pretty good first month in training is hitting $20,000. And then, you know, especially off old leads, and then from there helping them scale. Um, so, you know, it's like a policy or two a day and then they'll hit 20K on ACMS, no problem.

No big deal at all. Exactly. Yeah, so I see, I see the struggle in the industry though, dude. Some people can't figure out how to do a policy or two a week. It's really sad.

Yeah, man. Uh, I don't know, it's been like a common theme. I feel like a lot of, like, for example, you know, we had like the Rookie of the Year, Omar Asad, you know, his first month. Um, I, I kind of use a lot of their stories, you know. They, they, he sold like 3 policies his first month, you know what I mean? Yeah, another guy, no one really— yeah, like, you know, he did $500,000 his first year. He He sold like 2 his first month. So, yep, um, you know, they just stuck with it.

That's all it was. They sucked at the beginning and then they— what do you think? What do you think? Let's talk about it then. I like this. So how much did— what was the first dude, rookie? Yeah, I remember I saw him get the award.

Yeah, I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna say it. Yeah.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Dope. He sold a shit ton of insurance, didn't he?

Shit ton of insurance. And then, dude, I didn't even know, but you know, Ronnie did our team training. He came down to Lexington because he's from He did her thing on Saturdays, like, do these 3 poses first month. I'm like, damn, yeah, I mean, dude, I didn't even, I didn't even do that bad, to be honest, you know. Yeah, it was like, I think like 10 my first month, but, you know, okay, that's, that's a common theme. I feel like a lot of people, they'll quit in the beginning though because they don't have the vision. Like, they, they don't see, you know, the other side of what like could happen, so they're just like, fuck out, you know.

That's true. Do you try to explain it to people? Are you showing them, or what do you— how do you get people to see that?

I do, um, because, you know, you know, me myself include, like, I've been in this business for 2 years, so, you know, I'll usually tell people about my beginning journey, especially like whenever you bring a new agent in. Like, people, you know, a lot of managers forget, like, you also had a journey that you went through, and you can just simply relate with them and help them just by telling them what you did in your journey, um, because you went through the same shit that they're going through.

Yeah, are you sitting in a sports car or in the back seat?

No, I'm in the back seat of my car just because the office is so loud, so much people in there.

I could tell it's a back— not a door behind you, but I'm like, I don't know if it's a sports car, if he's in the back seat. I love it.

Yeah, that's good.

He's quiet. I'm mad at you, dude. Yeah, which office are you in? Where are you at? Where are you at right now?

Uh, Lexington.

Oh, you are? You're in Lexington?

Okay, cool.

Dig it. All right, so what's— if you had to give someone vision now, if you were to explain it, if I'm new as shit and I'm like, bro, I sold one app this week, it was a GI, and it ain't paying till, you know, the third week in April, this sucks, what am I doing wrong? Like, what are you— what are you telling me?

Yeah, so you do the main thing You know, John, when it comes to new agents, if they're telling me like, dude, they got one policy out and it's a GI, and like, that's the only thing, that's the only thing that they got out for the week. I'll just, I always go back to their activity because I can't help, you know, we can fix the closing problem, but you know, if their activity is, you know, pretty trash and then it was like nothing. I remember, you know, I used to learn a lot of this from Zach when it came to like training newer agents and how to get them paid quick. He'd be like, dude, if I mean, if they're not really dialing and putting the activity, that's the piece of the puzzle. Like you can't really do much. To help them at that point. But let's say they're dialing, all right, they did one piece of the puzzle. There's really like two things that can go wrong, is like, are they messing up like on the intro? Do they suck at the intro and they can't just get to numbers? Or do they, they suck at the numbers, they just can't ask for the close because they didn't—

it's a good point, you know what I mean?

So there's, there's always stuff you can dissect if they're actually doing the activity. Um, but what we have is like, you know, just a simple activity tracker for new agents. So, uh, you know, I'm pretty— yeah, I mean, you've seen it. I've actually seen yesterday, it's crazy, one of my agents, Dylan, I've seen him using the Just Win, uh, paper. I'm like, isn't that John Wetmore? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was like, hey man, we have it online now too, dude. Oh yeah, the tracker, so you can plug it in online and keep track of it because I got sick of spreadsheets and stuff.

Yeah, that's how we got— yeah, it's nice. It's, it's really put together, dude. A lot of agents overlook it and they just kind of have like a, like an ego in the beginning to fill it out, like, you know, just like those simple tallies, but they don't understand, like, obviously you can't fix what you don't track, so you're just like, like accelerating your learning curve by like months. By filling out that small piece of paper. People don't know.

Yeah, yeah, we'll, we'll put it— it's probably— Reese will probably put it on the damn screen for people. We even made it too, which I don't know if you knew this, but y'all welcome to use it. When you take that small piece of paper, we built like the online version of it so you can plug it in every day, and then it keeps track of your stats all week, all month. So I can see everyone's history now too. Yeah, dude, that's, that's powerful, dude. Yeah, so you— I have to get that. I'll have Reese send that over to you.

Yeah, they don't even need to— they don't even need to print out the paper and then, and then write it down. They just go online and just—

they can do either way. So I still print the paper because I like to do it, but then at the end of the day, I put in the totals on the, on the website. Then it tracks the totals by day, so I can see my whole team's activity by day, by week, by month. I can see everything. Yeah, yeah. So we take the paper and enter it in, in on the— it's just tracker.johnwetmore.com. Yeah, if you go there, you can— yeah, you can go and use it. Um, Okay, cool. So what are you seeing on the low end? So if it's, if it's activity-based, where do people— where do you see the weak ones land activity-wise versus where they need to be? And then how do you get them there?

Yeah. So where I see the weak ones when it comes to activity, like, you know, a lot of times, John, they'll come up to me. What I've noticed in the last 3 months, 4 months has been a common issue is they'll come up to me like, like, you know, hey, Masri, My pickup rate sucks. I'm not getting pickup rates. I'm like, all right, cool. What do you want me to do about it? Like, do you want me to call AT&T? You want me to call Verizon? You want me to get your pickup rate up? Like, what do you want me to do about that? Like, pickup rates is something, dude. Like, you, like, at the end of the day, like, the client isn't looking at your phone and be like, oh damn, Jose's calling me. I'm not going to pick it up. Like, dude, it has nothing to do with you. Maybe we just kind of have to switch up your dialing cadence to maybe get you some more pickups. Now, if you're not doing enough dials in the day, why aren't you dialing enough people in a day? Like, why aren't you able to get through a list of 100? Because as a new agent, you're not really training anyone. You don't have any backend work. Your main focus is just dialing and getting paid. It's like, how are you not able to dial 100 people in a day? You know what I mean? And I remember one of the tips, because I, John, I used to watch your interviews a lot, dude. I remember one of the tips, you know, that was in your podcast. You always said a lot for the dialing was like, you used to rip like a list of 30 and kind of just like go back through that list multiple times over, then go on to the next. I used to give that tip to agents as well, and you know, their pickup rate would, you know, dramatically increase because they would contact those leads more times within the hour. Obviously not back to back, but it'd be like, you know, like, you know, maybe 20 minutes apart, you know what I mean? Sure. Yep.

Yeah, we attack them, dude. I mean, we get after it. Yeah, 3 times in a couple hours. I'll call them 9 times in like 2 or 3 hours.

Exactly, exactly. And that's, that's kind of how we emphasize to an agent, you know, obviously speed to lead is, you know, the best thing. You always want to, you know, get to lead the this. But yeah, dude, always just making sure, one, if you're actually dialing 100 leads a day, then so easy to dissect the problem from there if they have the activity tracker. And then, you know, usually within, you know, a few days of them just doing everything that, you know, they're told with the script training, usually whenever an agent shows me that sheet and we have a— and I like see the problem, then I'll spend like 30 minutes to an hour with them, you know, on that specific part of the script or, you know, with that like specific, you know, that with that, you know, objection. You know?

Yeah, yeah. It's easy to tell if they're— if they're getting pickups and they're not presenting shit, it means they suck on the intro. If they're presenting shit, not closing. Yeah, it's easy to identify where you got to help them.

It's so much easier to help an agent that comes in the room and he's like, he's like, hey, I'm like, I had this much presentations, these much objections, where can I get better? Versus someone that comes in the room is like, hey bro, like my pickups suck. Yeah, I mean, so much easier to coach the other agent.

What are y'all seeing? I'll share my pickup rate, but I'm curious, do y'all keep track of what yours is? I know mine exactly.

You know, roughly, honestly, my— like, dude, my pickup rate last time I checked, just me personally, I don't know about my agents, but me personally is like 12%.

Okay, mine's 8.

Really?

Yeah, 8. I've tracked it. I've tracked— no, I've tracked it to a T for the last 6 months. I haven't sold in 10 years. I think I got back on the phone like Yeah, it's a fucking 8%, dude. I'm selling in 50, 40, 50, 60 grand a month with 8% of people paying up. 8% of phone calls, not 8% of people. That's a wrong way to word it. It's 8% of phone calls. So if I make 100 phone calls, 8 pick up. But if I have 100 leads, dude, I can probably make like 1,000 phone calls. Exactly. You know what I mean? I can get, I can get a lot of them to pick up. I can get well over half of people to answer. It just takes a shitload of people.

Always like misconstrue those numbers and they always like, you know, get those numbers kind of confused. They're like, yo, like 100 people. Oh, I only got— you say 8% pickup rate, you only had 8 people pick up out of 100. That means like 90-some people didn't pick up. It's like, no, you know, I was able to, you know, out of 100 calls, if I'm able to get 8 people to pick up, if I want, you know, let's say 50, 60 pickups, because I know that's how many it takes me to close, That means I probably— the math says in my head I probably need to dial like 500, 600 people. Correct. Or 500, 600 times.

Yep.

Yeah, that's correct.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because again, I'm not— 100 phone calls, it's— I can do that with, I mean, 30 people one time through, you know what I mean?

Yeah, exactly.

So yeah, so then I'm getting 8 out of 30.

Exactly. Nowadays, like, dude, like everyone, you know, you know, back in there, I remember Mahmoud, he used to like literally type in the number on his phone and rip it. Dude, there's CRMs now, there's automatic dialers, there's power dialers. You can copy and paste the number on your phone. Like, it's so much— it's so easier to rip through numbers now.

So it is.

There really is no excuse.

I learned that copy paste— I don't use dialers and CRMs and shit, I just— for my cell phone. But I learned that copy paste thing last week from a dude I had on the podcast. I'm like, that's fucking fire. Yeah, I had no idea you could do that.

I was like, holy moly.

Yeah, it's money. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Mac, probably Mac only, I'm guessing. I don't know if other computers do it. I know it works on the Mac and iPhone for sure.

I just figured out so you can iPhone on your laptop. I'm gonna have to mess around with that.

You can what?

Have your phone on your— you can like iPhone mirror on your laptop. I'm gonna mess around with that. Like how you can literally have an iPhone and control it from your Mac. Yeah, it's gonna be really iPhone on a Mac. Yeah, it's called—

no kidding.

Yeah, I want to try it after this.

What do you do with it? Just so you can dial and then it rings on your phone? Yeah.

Yeah, it rings. So you can— your phone from the back.

Yeah, no shit, iPhone mirror. My favorite part about doing this is I learned so much cool stuff. Yeah, iPhone mirroring. I'm gonna check it out when I'm done. I love it, I love it.

You'll like it.

Okay, all right, so let's— if we break that thing down into two spots where you said activity, so you're, you're talking about 100 leads a day, meaning 500 phone calls a day, roughly in that ballpark is kind of an acceptable number. Not 200 phone calls a day, clearly. Um, if you find that someone's making the 500 phone calls and again, maybe they're get— maybe they get, I don't know, 30, 40, 50 people to pick up that day and they just don't convert. What's the, what's the, the intro? Where are they weak? What are they doing wrong, you think?

I feel like a lot of the time, John, uh, whenever they're— let's say they're getting the pickups or connecting to people and they're not closing, I feel like a lot of times on the phone they're not— they don't know how to make the client feel comfortable. They don't know how to— they don't know how to put the client at ease, and they don't know how to— you know, the, the client's guard is— it's up for the most part. Yeah, they don't know how to bring it down. That's the main thing. Whenever, you know, you're on the phone with a client, or let's say you get a call, or, or you call a client, you always want to make sure that their guard is down. Because whenever you go through the rest of the script, and whenever you go through the rest of the process, you're gonna be getting sensitive information. So it's going to be like trying to pry something out of them. Whenever you don't have their guard down. Whenever you have their guard down though, it becomes so much easier to, you know, ask for their clothes, get their health, quote them, and they're much more responsive with you. So whenever I listen to these agents' phone calls in the beginning, it's kind of like they just like kind of like ramp through the script and they don't like hear any of these like cues from the client, like that they don't even give a damn, you know what I mean? Like they're over here on the phone and they're like talking monotone, they're giving them bland answers. And then, and then 2 minutes later they're asking for the close, and they come up to me like, bro, I just got an objection. I'm like, no shit, really?

Yeah, shocker.

Yeah.

Are you teaching them? Because I, I, you and I do it, we hear it, it's a feel, you know how to adjust. How do you go about teaching someone, one, to recognize it, which I think is easier, but once they recognize it, you know, because tonality, you can hear them, dude, he sounds fucking pissed still, what are you, what are you, what are you talking about? You know, that's, I think it is an easy pickup. Um, how do you get them to control it or change it? How do you get someone's guard down? How do you teach? So, hi guys, if you'd like to attend my office 2-day workshop event that we put on 2 or 3 times a year, um, spend 2 full days, deep dive into everything you need to know to be successful in the space, whether you're selling or whether you want to build an agency, um, whether you want to learn how to run a staff, recruit, sell at a high level, whatever it is, we dive into to it. Again, workshop style, so super interactive. I run them every 2 or 3 times a year. There is a waitlist. If you go to johnwetmore.com/workshop, you can put in your information and we will let you know when the next one is. There are 2 levels only. There's a basic ticket, you sit in the back of the room and you can attend, but the executive ticket is access to a private mastermind at my house where we have a full dinner. We spend 3 or 4 hours there as well, engaging with each other and learning at a deeper level, a little bit closer-knit. So if you want to be at the next one, register at the link.

Later. So how do I get an agent's guard down or the client's guard down?

The client— how do you get a new agent to learn how to get the client's guard down?

So it's all just by tonality. So I literally just make them hear like, I'll be like, dude, like, first off, stop going fast. Like, that's all I— it's always the theme I find with agents. They're just going so fast with the script, it just like messes up everything. They're like, they're stuttering. The clients are like, dude, what's this guy saying? And it's just like so bad for everyone. So I'm like, dude, first thing I need you to do is slow down. Second thing I need you to do is, you know, have you been hearing everyone else in the office? Like, do you hear them? Do you hear them talk the way you're talking? I want you to be like, I just want you to talk to them kind of like how, you know, you talk to your mom or how you talk to your grandma, just like kind of slow, slow tone. And then dude, just watch how one, they're able to actually apprehend what you're saying. And then two, they're able to like answer with more clarity because they know what you're saying. So you're able to like help them more, you know what I mean?

Yeah, it's true. Yeah, yeah. I think new agents get so scared they're gonna get hung up on— they, they think the faster they say the sentence, the better chance they got.

I was like that. I was like that my first 2 months. I was like, bro, as, as long as I do— as long as I just like get through this quicker, I can maybe get the close quicker, and then, and then I'll be— yeah, it's like so bad, honestly. Like the When you say like that, I had the same exact mindset my first month, 2 months. Yeah, I was like, I just need to get through this.

Yeah, get the words in.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's like, the words ain't the magic. That's why I'm not— I hate scripts for that reason. Like, I get why we have them, but I fucking hate them because people think it's the words that are— I'm like, it ain't the word. Like, the words are important, sure, but it's more on how you say them and the timing that you say them and, you know, things like that.

It's always the structure. It's always— the script is always just there to provide structure. Correct. I mean, I notice with a lot of people, man, they'll put— they don't, you know, say word by word. They always put like their own little twist to it because at the end of the day, you know, it's just communication psychology with the client.

So yeah, it's true. That's true. What are— what are some important things during that kind of structure of the intro that you're trying to figure out and/or establish, like to know to go forward?

Yeah. So obviously you want to establish credibility and trust. So in the intro, the main thing about the intro is like, hey, You know, this is why I'm calling, and you're just confirming, you know, the other person on the line. So once you're able to confirm, you know, once you're able to confirm your identity and, you know, establish trust, then you can kind of push the rest of the script. You know, why did you fill this out? What was your main concern? So me, I'm always, you know, something that I've always, you know, been doing, you know, whenever they answer the phone, I kind of match their tone on the phone. So, you know, if they're, you know, a little bit loud, I kind of talk a little bit loud with them. And if they're a little bit, you know, softer tone, more quiet, I'll talk a little bit more quiet, softer tone with them., as well. Um, but that's kind of just, you know, what I've been doing with the intro to kind of breeze through it. A lot of people overthink the intro objections, but most of the intro objections are really smokescreens. You know, they're not really like, um, they're not like crazy objections where, you know, they, you know, they just, they've thought about it for a long time. It just comes up off the top of their head. And the good thing is with intro objections is, you know, just like any section, the intro, the numbers, and the, and the why, They're all, you're gonna get like the same 8 objections for each section. And if you notice on the script, um, you know, those objections are on there and you're not really gonna get much objections outside of the ones that are there. So as long as you're able to master the psychology of why they give you those objections and how do you overcome it, not by words on the script, but how do you overcome it, you know, with psychology and actually learning the client, helping them, it becomes a lot easier. Um, it becomes a lot easier to overcome those objections. Yeah, because with each section, man, it's the same.

Yeah, yeah, it's saying things to prevent the objection. You deliver it in a way that it covers that problem. Yeah, and that's the piece that people will be like, what's the script? I'm like, dude, they're all relatively the same now. Like, there's nothing that he hears that you don't hear. They're all relatively the same. It's if you understand why it's there and how to use it, that's for me more, more important. Um, I love it.

100%.

Cool. Um, all right, what do you, um, what do you think then in terms of like, how do you, how do you figure out, how do you teach? Like, not every person you talk to is a potential client, clearly. Yeah, I mean, like, some leads just aren't worth the shit. Do you, do you, do you teach people like how, or like, how do you know when to cut bait or when to keep going forward with someone? You know what I mean? Or do you, do you try to go through no matter what? Are you like bailing on some based on certain factors you're picking up, you know.

So, you know, what a client— so some of the cues that I kind of focus on in, in the beginning, man, like, I'll know, uh, you know, obviously, you know, being in the tiers, you can probably know, John, too, like, within the first, you know, I don't want to say a few minutes, within like the first 5 minutes, you kind of get a feel of the client, how they're going to feel the rest of the call. Like, yeah, maybe you can kind of switch them later down the line, but the first 5 minutes is really gonna is really kind of the telltale because one, they know why they're there, they know what you're doing. And if after those 5 minutes they still don't know what you're doing, dude, you're going to have a rough time the rest of the call. So I feel like for me, John, it's always been, you know, making sure that the client like has a structure, like, you know, in the whole call. So some of the cues I'll focus on are, are they responsive? Are they giving me actual answers or are they, you know, they just like telling me, yeah, I just want to leave money behind. I got to tell me more about that. Like, oh, I don't know. I was just, you know, looking around or something like I'm looking for certain cues. And if I don't get those cues or certain things, I'm going to ask them to try to soft close them. I know you're just looking around, but when you say you were just looking around, like, how long have you been looking around for? Oh, I've been looking around for a year. So I'm assuming you've just been, you know, in this last year, you've just been tired of looking around and you're kind of ready to put something in place today to make sure your family's protected. I'll kind of— I'll really just— that this way, John, you're kind of saving yourself from an objection at the end. And you're, you're, you're kind of soft closing on the way there.

The same objection everyone else got, which is why you're talking to him, because no one else sold them.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah. You got to see, you're about to be the next one if you don't change something.

100%. He's been getting people out, think about it, objections for a whole year, and now it was just—

and that's hard to— that it's, it's like, where on the script is that exact— you know what I mean? It's like, that's the piece that's like, you got to learn, you You gotta learn. Yeah.

Like subtle cues. Yeah.

Exactly. I love it. I love it. You straight final expense? Y'all all do really just final expense.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, most of my agents, you know, everyone, you know, pretty much focuses on final expense. Yeah. It's just, you know, I feel like the reason, you know, final expense has just, you know, been popping, it's just so replicatable and it's like, I love it. Yeah, dude. The product, everyone needs it. You know, it's, it's really, it's simplified issue. It's beautiful.

Yeah, it is. And some people are like, there's no money in final expense. I'm like, you must not sell it right then.

You know, they just don't, they just don't know how to sell. Yeah. You know, why don't they just say they don't want to sell? Yeah, because if you sell at a— if you sell volume, you know, for final expense, if you sell a lot of it, you know, 2, 3 a day, the pipeline adds up quick.

It does, you know what I mean?

It does.

Especially big ones pop. Always big ones pop. You always get— when you sell 10 apps a week, there's going to be a few big ones in there.

There's always going to be the people that, that aren't just going to leave $10,000, $15,000, $20,000. They're like, yo, you know, I actually want to, you know, $25,000, $30,000. They're in their 70s. It's going to be like $200, $300 a month. Yeah, it's beautiful.

Yep. Last sold one yesterday afternoon, $277 a month, $50K. You know, she was like, oh yeah, $70, so $68, something like that.

Yeah, it's like, which carrier you're under? You're under Trans?

Um, it varies, it depends on health, you know. Um, I, I, I, I'm a lot of AmeriCo, Trans, uh, Ethos, CoreBridge are the main 4. I don't really sell much outside of those 4, and kind of in that order. Yeah, I mean, if they're healthy, I'll do AmeriCo fine. But, you know, trans and trans and ethos are next depending on health.

And I've been, I've been loving trans like 2 weeks ago. I reached out to Steve. I was like, yo, the rep over here, bro, I love trans. I need you guys to send me some merch to the office. Like, I got you.

So yeah, their stuff's good, dude. They're, they're, they're lovely. You know, they take some crazy stuff.

The best thing that's ever happened in the industry, like in terms of tax codes, like everyone else, it's, it's like literally so easy. Just a few numbers.

And I like, you get a real answer, you get the full underwrite. Yes, you know for sure it's approved. You ain't getting like the kind of maybe approved but not approved later.

Exactly.

And they take some stuff, dude. I love— I mean, they take some stuff and they're $100K now. Yeah, that don't suck. I sold a couple of those.

The compensation is beautiful.

Everything about it is. Yeah, their comp's fire. It is, it is. I saw a lot of Trans. Yeah, American Trans I sell the most. Again, I'll throw in some Ethos for just random stuff if I have to, certain scenarios where it might price a little bit better or whatever. If I have to move something somewhere, replacing policy, you know, I mean, shit like that. Yeah, if I have to sometimes. Yeah. Um, but yeah, yeah, they're up there, bro. Um, cool. What about— give them— let's give them some stuff about closing, dude. Whatever you want, you know, your closer, you sell a shitload of insurance, so give them, give them some goods.

Dude, so, you know, the main thing, obviously, when it comes to closing, what I would want to advise everyone, um, obviously the first thing is, you know, making sure you get off that hump where you're, you're on lead assist. So obviously your first month, 2 months in the business, you're on this learning curve where you're still on a lead assist program and you're getting, you know, past old leads from your, uh, or not, not even all, just leads in general from your manager, right? You want to be able to make sure you have an investment every single, like, you're able to invest in your business every week. So the first thing, yeah, I would advise anyone is obviously get on lead spend. That's going to be the first step to accelerating your production because there's only so much you can do off older leads. Obviously, you can still really juice them and hit, you know, $20,000, $30,000, even $40,000 if you want it off those leads. But if you really want to scale past those numbers, you need to get leads. You need to, you need to have clients coming in your door every single day or, you know, leads coming in your Google Sheet every single day. So that's the first thing. And the second thing after, you know, you actually are on lead spend, is, John, there's no point of getting on Leadsman if you're not going to work the leads. People think like if they bought $1,200 of leads that week, like they guaranteed themselves $10,000 of issue paid that week. Like, no, dude, like you actually have like, okay, you did the first part, now just do the second part. Just actually work them, be consistent on the next 5, 6 days, and don't expect just to close $10,000 off call-ins. The call-ins are great, dude. You'll close 1, 2, 3 of them off in a week, but do not like rely on those, dude. You have to actually work. Leads. If you know you're spending $1,200, you'll probably get whatever the math is, you know, 30, 40 leads a day. Dude, that's plenty enough leads to be able to close 1 to 2 a day. So after they're able to focus, after they get on Lead Spend, they close 1 to 2 a day, then it's like, all right, now I'm going to ramp this up. I'm going to scale my lead spend. So now I'm able to close 3 to 4 a day. They close 3 to 4 a day. Honestly, for the math on that, you know, to be getting those numbers, either one, you would want to get a dialer Or two, you know, you want to spend above like, you know, $2,000 a week on leads and just working outbound for sure. Yeah, those are the two ways because, you know, there's definitely different strategies you can do. A dialer could help, but if you're at the point in the beginning stages where you don't really have much stuff on your schedule, you don't really need one. I mean, you can still rip, you know, outbound dials, outbound dials, but I mean, you know, the dialer is optional, but that's essentially all it is. So it's just lead flow, you know, cash flow, and then, you know, it's just workflow. So you want to have your lead flow. You want to make sure you're getting cash flow from the business by actually working those leads. And then obviously off that, you want to make sure that, you know, all of it's going in your pipeline, you're able to close consistently every single day. That's what I would tell someone if they're able to do that, John. Dude, they're hitting $50,000, $60,000 on HTMS if they're able to do 3, 2, 3 pulses a day. It's— and you know, the bonus, you know what's crazy, John, too, is I'll always break down the math to them. I'll be like, dude, like, all right, let's say you spend this amount on leads. All right, cool, dude. The bonus for FFL, if you were to issue pay $50,000, I go, what is that? I think it's like, um, it's not $2,000, I think it's like, like $3,000 or something for $50,000. It's a couple grand. I'm like, bro, that's already half of your lead spend for the month. And then obviously, you know, we're producing $50 grand, you're getting paid like maybe like $35,000, $40,000. Like, bro, you made your leads back probably times, um, you know, probably times 8 that month, you know what I mean? If you just did everything you're supposed to do, I'll always break down the math for them to where it literally looks like a no-brainer if they do everything they're supposed to do.

Yeah, it's true. Yeah, it's good. That's good. Give them some like, um, what are some like important word tracks for you when you're trying to close? Like some, you know, I know you talked about pre-trial closing a lot, which makes sense, um, but like, make sure we we wrap that thing up, what are some important, important pieces for you?

So some important, you know, pieces for me, like, are you talking like whenever I'm on the numbers?

Like, no, I'm talking about specifically with the client, like getting them to move, getting them to say yes and do that second pin, you know what I mean? Give you the routing and account and things like to actually close the deal, like legit. Yeah, I mean, where someone's— yeah, what do you— how do you— know, I mean, there's, there's— and I know how to do it, so I'm trying to sort of lead you there, um, just on the way you do it as far as the questions you're asking, the, the things you're trying to identify besides the basics. I know we're trying to get a why and we're saying what we do, yada yada, but, you know, just word tracks.

I feel like, John, I always try to be more personal with the client, you know what I mean? Like whenever, for example, I'm on the phone with them and, you know, you know, I'm getting their personal information and I'm just trying to get them towards the yes. They're, you know, they're most likely going to buy from someone that they kind of trust more. Sure. So what am I doing the whole call is I'm trying to establish trust. I'm trying to show them like, hey, I'm actually here to help you. And I'm going to ask them as many questions as I can in the beginning to understand their situation. That way I can kind of, you know, put together a plan that's going to, you know, best fit their family's needs. So the whole time I'm going to, you know, establish trust and I'm going to make sure throughout the whole call, like, they know that I'm there to help them because when I do that, they're going to open up to me more. When they open up to me more, there's just so much I can do. There's so much I can, you know, extract from their current, you know, lifestyle or they'll actually tell me about their current coverage. And, you know, if we're, you know, in good rapport, though, you know, sometimes they'll like talk trash about the coverage they have a year ago, be like, yeah, yeah, that's facts. Yeah, that company, I don't even like— do we have better? Of course. You know what I mean? It's like it's always just establishing this trust, this trust, this concept that they're able to open up. You know what I mean? And you're able to, you know, help them, you know, put them in a better position because a lot of these clients, you know, when they actually do open up, you'll figure out, do they actually have like a, like a pretty bad policy they got in place from like a carrier, um, that, you know, that we don't have, um, that we're able to like replace with one of our carriers and get them like a lot better deal, something that they got even 5 years ago. So to do that, you just want to make sure you establish the trust with the client, um, and you're actually to you know, actually build a relationship with them while you're on the phone. And it doesn't need to be complicated. People overdo it. They're like, oh, they spend 30, 40 minutes on the phone. These veterans will talk. They will literally talk your ear off if you let them. So you always have to find that medium to where it's like, all right, you build the rapport, but you also get them on track. You keep the script flowing, you keep everything moving, you know what I mean?

Yeah. What up, y'all? So YouTube memberships, we have one now right next to the subscribe button. There's a neon white join button. You can't miss it. Subscribe, whatever it says, click the link, get in there. I do a ton of coaching, teaching people how to dial, corrections, working on their presentations, working on their mindset. I will coach on theory, but I like coaching real world stuff. And if you join the membership section, you're going to see live coaching where I am not only helping people, but every once in a while I get in there and dial myself. There's some cool videos coming out, tons of content. All of the training videos will be directly on my YouTube YouTube channel that's available to members only. Super easy to find, so join now if you're interested. Click below. See you in there. And give them like one specific— one or two specific tips on building trust. Besides, I know you said personable, I know you said— I got that. But like specific, like especially a vet. Some of the vets are— dude, they're closed off at the beginning, you know what I mean? They're like— they can be a little more direct. They can be, you know, I mean, it's sometimes harder to open them suckers up a little bit. I know a lot of new agents struggle with that. So what are you doing that to make it not corny, like fake rapport?

Yeah. So a lot of times, so what I've seen recently, um, you know, if the client has an iPhone, bro, people have been iPhone, you know, FaceTime closing a lot, and they've been showing their face. And dude, clients love it, man. They, they love it, the fact that they're able to see you live on the phone. What I, what I do a lot— I'm not gonna lie, I don't do a lot. I see a lot of my agents do FaceTime closes. Me personally I don't do a lot of FaceTime closes. What I usually do, obviously, I'll just send them my license, uh, I'll send them a picture of my face, and, you know, I'll send them my NPN number, um, I'll send them my personal cell phone number, and I'll literally tell them, I'll be like, you know, John, I am going to be your, you know, agent for life. This is one of like the soft closing techniques to it. John, I'm gonna send you my, um, you know, my license information, because after we finish this application here, and we— I didn't ask for the close yet, but after we finish, after we finish the application here, I am going to be your agent for life. So make sure store this information in your phone, same number my mom calls me on, etc. And that way they have that there. And before I ask for the clothes, I'll be like, all right, John, did you see my face? Were you able to see the license? Were you able to validate? A lot of times the vets would be like, you know, you'll send them, you'll send them the, the license. They'll be like, yeah, I got it, but they never really looked at it, so they weren't really able to validate your identity. It's one of those, it's, it kind of goes back to the queue thing. It's like, all right, You know, there's cues you can tell to see if they're like, they're really in tune with what you're doing. You know, did they actually open the text message and look at the picture? If they didn't, have them do that. Get them back in line.

Do you send an actual license, like a screenshot of that state, or do you send the thing that has— they can click and see all your stuff?

Yeah, it's like, it's like, um, like one of those cards, like a fucking poker page. Yeah. And it has like all my licenses.

Yep.

Yep.

Yeah. Makes sense. Cool. I like it.

I like it.

All right, dig it. Cool. You team-wise, you're doing some team volume?

Yeah, team volume, not bad, dude. We, you know, last month, um, we finished at $750,000. It went down a little bit because, you know, convention— whenever you lose like a week of production because of the convention, it kind of chops, especially in an already short month. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, we're, you know, January we did $950,000. February we did $800,000. So this month will be right around $950,000. We might crack the million this month, but yeah, you know, my main goal from, you know, from here, John, is just to make sure obviously I'm able to, you know, help as much people direct as possible get to $20,000 their first month. So that's kind of what I've been doing because it's such an easy— it's such an easy thing and it's really scalable to do because if you're— if they're able to get to $20,000, obviously they can get to $30,000, $40,000. The only thing that they need to change is get on lead flow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not that deep to get the first 20 is definitely the hardest.

Definitely the hardest. Oh my God. Yeah, literally.

What are you doing for recruiting? I know a lot of y'all talk to a lot of y'all. Y'all all bring everyone you fucking know. I know that for sure.

Oh, 100%. Oh my God. So yeah, so that's something. So we post a lot on social media. So obviously whenever we post on social media, we literally juice our warm market, bro. Like everyone sees it, and especially with us being kind of in a smaller town too. Um, everyone knows what we're doing. So it's always kind of like a matter of time before, you know, you know, someone's always swiping up to like, yo, like, I've been, you know, watching for a while. And a lot of these guys, they watch for a while, they look at the content, and they'll just kind of see, you know, what Blueprint's doing. They'll swipe out, and then they'll come back because we post so consistently. So it's always on there, it's always on their page. They always know, like, you know, essentially there's motion in that office is what they're seeing. So Um, that's, that's how we're recruiting in this, in the city, right? That's how we're getting warm market. A lot of our guys, it's a lot of the younger demographic, to be honest. So that's, those are the people in the Lex office. Outside of the Lex office, um, what I've been doing is I've been running, you know, cold market Instagram ads is what I've been doing in the last month. I've been testing out, um, obviously, you know, content, you know, I'm working on making better content, better ad copies and whatnot. But that's honestly the best way for me, what I've seen, um, to be able to get higher quality recruits is probably just running ads on Instagram. You know, getting a really good ad copy going. Um, that's, I feel like, how you'd be able to qualify, um, higher quality recruits, you know. Because I used to run, I used to run Instagram ads, man, where I, I used to get DMs and I used to have a recruiter in my DMs, like, answer them. Um, I didn't really like it as much because the, you know, the recruiter wasn't as, um, personable. Um, you know, it kind of sounded like a bot. And then, yeah. And then the second thing, dude, a lot of the Instagram DMs I got were just like Dude, a lot of get-rich-quick people. I'm like, bro, out of those though, I'm not gonna like— out of like, you know, 200 of those leads, I probably got like 2 solid people that still write with me today. So at the end of the day, bro, it's just like sales, you know what I mean? You'll go through a crap ton of people, but you'll still get those 2 bangers, you know what I mean? Yeah. So yeah, just like, you know, just like with, um, with sales, recruiting is, is, is a numbers game, you know what I mean? And you have to kind of reverse engineer what you want in the business. Zach, you know, taught me this when I visited his office in Austin. I did the podcast with him. He kind of taught me how to like reverse engineer everything. It's like, all right, if you want to get this much people writing per month, how much people do you have to interview? Out of those much people, how much people do you have to enroll in the course? Out of those much people, how much will actually finish the course? And it's like, you know, it's like kind of a pipeline thing. And pretty much the main summary was You have to interview a shit ton of people every single week.

That's the exact number, actually. It's a fucking shit ton. Yeah, it's the, the stat— the percentages are really bad. Yeah, you know, just is what it is. So it's like you stack the high side. And yeah, I remember teaching them a lot of that shit early on. It's like people want to interview 5 people a week and blow up, and I'm like, that ain't, that ain't how it works, people.

And it's people like— I, I thought that way for a long time. I was like, bro, if I interview 5 people this week, like, how can 5 people say no to this opportunity? Like, they have to finish course. But bro, people don't do it. Like, people—

like, you—

like, you really gotta, like, you know, narrow down on those higher quality recruits and ask them obviously the right questions, put the right structure for them, um, because you'll find a lot of, you know, BSers, a lot of bullshitters.

Yeah, yeah. Are you doing one-on-one interviews still? Are you stacking them into meetings, or you doing one-on-one interviews?

One-on-one interviews still, yeah.

You weed them out at all first? Are you doing anything to, like— before you get on the phone, is there anything you require?

Yeah, so, so they'll fill out like a, like a, like a questionnaire. Like right now I have like a link on my Instagram, for example, and then whenever they fill out like the questionnaire, it'll kind of give me like a breakdown of what their goals are, like what's their current situation. And after that, they'll like book like a Calendly link with me. Um, so like I'll see with those answers, I'll kind of pre-qualify them. I ask for the Instagram too, maybe I'll go, I'll go through their Instagram, see, you know, you know, kind of their situation and what it's like with them.

Yeah, it's cool. Who are you not looking for? Like, who do you hate talking to? The one where they apply and you're like, this is not my guy.

Yeah, I mean, the, the people that I hate talking to, honestly, bro, are like the people that are just like, yeah, man, I'm just kind of looking for just like— and it's not like I hate talking about it, it's like, I'd rather like— you can probably just go work with someone else because I can't kind of help you get to the goals. Like, whether I kind of like, I just want to work part-time and I just want to like, you know, test the waters out and, you know, just make some extra, uh, supplemental income. I'm like, bro, I mean, to be honest, like, we're on an advanced— first off, this business is an advanced business, but supplemental income, bro, like, this ain't the place for something like that. Buckle up. You know what I mean? Buckle up. Because those chargebacks definitely aren't supplemental income, so you better keep consistently selling. You know what I mean? So that's the main thing I always focus on is, you know, I want to make sure that they kind of have the vision that they're in it for the longer term. Because if they're focused more on like the short-term picture, Like what I've been like in the last 6 months is I kind of have like this sense for roll-up. I'm like, bro, I'm not trying to get rolled up. So like, yeah, I just kind of like think 6 months ahead, you know what I mean? Like if they're telling me—

Learning more of the game.

Exactly. Yeah. And it took a while for me. You live and you learn, you know, you go through a couple of things that happens and then, you know, that's how you learn.

Yeah, it is. You, you, it's, that's why it always goes back to activity because you trust people's words less. Because you see the end result is they'll walk on you in a second, let that shit roll for you. I mean, the people are crazy. Yeah, that's good, dude. I love it. I love it. Well, anything else, um, to end that you want to share? Anything I didn't ask that maybe I should have, or any— just anything you want to articulate to people or share about yourself? Welcome to—

yeah, I always— I mean, I feel like there's one thing, you know, I want everyone to kind of remember when it comes to the industry. You know, people that are— I feel like, John, that are in the industry especially right now in the current, you know, year we're in, in the era we're in, 2026. People come in the industry, 2, 3 months in the business, and they'll look at someone that has been in the industry for 3 years and they expect to have that same success that they have within 2, 3 months. And then they get pissed that they don't. So like, people will come up to me, the first one in the business, be like, dude, like, why am I not as successful? I'm like, bro, first off, I've literally been in the business— you've been in it 1 month, I've been here 24— 24 times longer than you have. And you're asking, how do you get the same results? So, one, bro, you just haven't given yourself enough time. Two, you, dude, you have to, you have to really like find your why and find your purpose because one, you're young. If you don't find your why and find your purpose, like, dude, this business is going to eat you alive. You're going to make, let's say you do end up making good money. If you don't have a why or find a purpose, all that money that you get in the door as a young adult in 2026, you're going to blow it. All it takes is one trip to literally anywhere and your money's blown. You go to Miami, the money's cooked, you know what I mean? So you always have to make sure, like, you know, as a, as a young, as a young, as a young broker, you know, you want to make sure that one, you have the vision and then two, that you never, you never want to like, you know, steer away from, you know, the business. So you always want to make sure that you're in the circle the longest. Something Wiley said to me in a, in a Zoom meeting, you ever watch like, you ever seen those MrBeast videos where he's like, Dude, the longest to stay in the circle gets $1 million.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I like that.

Yeah, he kind of used that. Yeah, he kind of used that example. He's like, dude, like, like, if you look around, if you look around, like, the top insurance managers, the top insurance producers, dude, they just stayed in the circle the longest.

Sure. I mean, so true. That's a good analogy. I like that one a lot.

Yeah. And when he said that, I was like, damn, dude, that's something like, you know, everyone understands, and it makes sense. Person that stays in the circle longest gets the prize. Yeah. So I always tell that to agents. I'll be like, dude, don't beat yourself up. You know, you're in a good position. You're in a month— you're a month or two in the business. You're actually doing better than I was a month or two in the business. Just focus on working, you know, hard, finding your purpose, your why, you know, your family. And then 3, saving your money. Because dude, a lot of agents will make really good money in this industry, John. They'll figure out the system, the ins and out, but they have a problem keeping the money, and then they'll go through a hamster wheel. And that is— it becomes a massive problem when that happens because, you know, you'll end up losing trust on yourself, and then the business becomes a lot harder. It's harder to navigate stuff. So you want to make sure you have a good foundation in the beginning to where you're doing the right work, you have the right, you know, right purpose, and then 3, you know, you're taking care of your money. That's one thing I would advise anyone coming in the business to focus on.

Yep, it's good shit, bro. It's good shit. It's my man. I love it. Well, I appreciate you taking time out of your day. I know you got a bunch of agents to go help, so let you get after it, my man. Thanks for sharing. If I can help you at all, dude, along the way, just let me know.

I appreciate you, John.

Thank you so much, my man.

Thank you for having me, man.

You got it, buddy. Welcome. Have a good one, guys. If you've enjoyed the podcast or any of the previous episodes, if you're on Spotify or any of the other Apple Podcast platforms, would love if you'd in and leave a review for us. Um, if you're, if you're watching on YouTube, comment, like, subscribe, share, do all the things. We'd greatly appreciate it. Helps get the word out to everybody. Appreciate you, and we'll see you on the next one.