This Insurance Sales Phone Script Made Me $100,000 ft. Caroline Trecartin | Ep37

If there's any objections that would come up in the end, she's going to tell you that now.

A lot of agents try to do that after they show pricing and after they're told no. Then they go back and they're like, "Wait, wait." What is going on? Welcome back. John Wetmore with another episode of the Insurance Insiders Podcast. Have a friend getting a little more popular in the space now, Caroline. Tricartan, which we determined she pronounces her name, last name, 9 different ways too, so you can't mess it up. Um, but appreciate you getting on.

Thanks, John. Appreciate you. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, always. I, um, I've seen you at quite a few events. You're always a student, but lately I've seen you speaking and teaching, which has been cool. Doing, doing some good things in the space. So I thought we'd dive in a little bit and, uh, learn a little bit more about you, you know, what you can add to those out there trying to overcomplicate this business.

Yeah, absolutely, happy to help.

I appreciate it. So I think— I don't, I don't know a ton because I like to just kind of get in and ask questions, but I feel like— was it like medical school or something? Would you— where's your background? Remind me, I feel like it's something medical.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was pre-med. I went to the University of Illinois down in Urbana-Champaign. So completely pre-med track, taking all the anatomy courses, science, math, all that stuff. Thought I was gonna be like a doctor or something.

What kind? Do you know?

Yeah, well, I was studying psychology, so my ultimate goal was to become like a psychiatrist, maybe open up my own practice or something like that.

Okay. In. And okay, is family in it?

No, not at all.

No doctors in the family?

No doctors in the family. But I was always very good at school, like straight-A student, 4.0 GPA. Always loved math, science, like I said, anatomy, those types of courses. Always was fascinated by the human body, so I kind of saw myself going into something medical.

Okay, so it was a big dream. Wasn't like— like, I have a— I have a dude I'm— I started working with. Now he's a killer in the industry, but started working when he was like 22 and mentored him for a while. And he was supposed to go to medical school because all his family is, right? And he dropped out to do this, and he was like nervous to tell his family that he was in insurance because he was afraid Dad would be disappointed, yada, you know what I mean? Things like that. So I was curious if you dealt with that at all, and you still might have. Hell, A lot of people do, and they're not even— have big expectations.

Well, my dad always had high expectations of me. Like, I would come home from school and I'd get like a 99% on my test, and he'd be like, well, why'd you get that one question wrong? Instead of being like, oh well, congratulations, 99. So he always had very high expectations of me, you know, very high achiever. Um, so like, he wanted me to get a normal job. So when I did tell him I wanted to pursue this insurance thing, that was a little bit sketchy for him.

Was it? What's he do?

What do you— he was a project engineer, so he was in engineering his whole life. Then he retired early and now he actually invests in the market, so he gets his income fully from like dividends and stock market and things like that.

So he's a risk taker.

Yeah, I would say so. More like long-term, long-term gains type of thing.

Yeah, got it. Okay, slow and steady kind of guy. Yeah, got it, got it, got it. How did you fall into— how did— how far did you get in medical school, first of all? Because I always, I always use the example, and I'll tell you where my thought process with it, and you probably use this, but like, people give up on this industry so fast.

Oh yeah.

But then they go into medical school and they suck at the beginning and they don't know how to do whatever. Name, name the thing, surgery, whatever, but they expect it to take— I don't know, I know it takes a long time, it's like 8 years or 10 years or something obnoxious.

Longer than that.

Is it really?

It's a very long process. But I think that concept applies to any field, like you're never gonna be good at anything in the beginning. But I never actually got it— I never went to medical school. I was in my college 4 years Yeah. So pre-med, um, I actually graduated college within 3 years. So I, I graduated a year early cuz I had accrued all the credits and whatnot. Um, but I was in the year where I was supposed to be, you know, starting to take the MCAT and things like that and start applying to med school. So I was like this close and I found insurance through my sister Charlotte who was starting her own company. She was starting a business and she needed funds. To start the business. So she got into insurance through one of her friends. His life insurance, it's— I mean, you can make a lot of money really quick if you're good at it. Like, you can sell a policy today, get paid tomorrow type thing. So she utilized the business to fund her company. I was like, geez, you're making a lot of money.

Really? What is she— is she similar to what we do or something totally different in insurance?

No, she is a water bottle accessory company, actually. She founded a company called Char Char. Charms. So you might notice that the Stanleys have been getting super popular. Oh yeah, all these big water bottles. Yeah, she kind of started the whole water bottle accessory surge. Like, you might not see Starbucks on it and stuff. Yeah, exactly. Like charms and like bottle boots and straw toppers. Like, she started that whole era. No way. Yeah, with her company. So pretty, pretty cool. I'm very proud of her.

I get whacked on TikTok from those ads.

Yeah, exactly. But I mean, with any company, you need a lot of funds to get started, you know, get the molds and whatnot. So she got into insurance to kind of fund the, the starting of her business.

Same type we do, simplified issue leads.

Yeah, mortgage protection. I started selling mortgage protection, didn't love it. Final expense.

Is she still in there? She started her other company and bounced?

No. Yeah, she, she was only in it for about 9 months, made a crap ton of money, and then had enough money to go full-time in her Char Charms business. So I mean, now she, she's like the CEO of this big company. She has like 100 employees. It's crazy. Yeah, she's in Dick's Sporting Goods, she's in Target. It's wild.

Is she on Shark Tank yet?

I will not say anything about that. Shut up. No way. Yes, let's not expose that just yet.

Wow, that was just a shot in the dark. Yeah, yeah, dang. See, that's why I love not prepping for these. Some people are like, it must be stressful. I'm like, nah, I find out all kinds of cool stuff, right? Just being curious. How long ago did she get in insurance? How long has that been?

It was like roughly 3 years ago-ish. Yeah, so, well, and then I got my license in August of '22, so I've been licensed 2 years, 2 and a half years.

Okay, so Dad had to be a little less weird. He had already gone through it with her, right?

Exactly. But then, you know, she was really successful. She, she's— we're different types of people personality-wise. She's very type A. I'm a little bit more type B. So she's very assertive, go-getter. Anything that she goes at, she's usually very successful. Me, I take a little bit longer. So I was very bad in the beginning, not salesperson. I'm the type of person when you say, oh, I want to think about it, or I want to talk to my wife, I'm like, oh, yeah, absolutely. So very nice over the phone. So as you can imagine, not work out very well for me. Um, and my dad still was pushing me to go get a real job.

How did that feel?

It was like very defeating because I really thought that this was going to be like my thing. I felt passionate about it. I really wanted to make it work. And you like psychologically, when someone tells you you can't do something, or you're not good at it, you kind of want to like run harder at it, you know what I mean?

Some people do. I have that too. I'm a very big like, 'F you, watch me,' right, kind of motivated guy, you know. But some people crumble.

I'm glad to know I'm that type of person. I was like, 'Well, watch me do it.' And fortunately, my boyfriend was very supportive. He was the only one that was always in my corner. Even my sister told me not to do it. My dad and my sister were both telling me not to do it, and then my boyfriend was in my corner supporting me, saying, Caroline, go get it, you're going to be successful, I know you can do it, I believe in you.

Why were they telling you not to? What were some of the reasoning?

What, what was some of the reasoning?

Yeah, I— was it one, was it related to you weren't having immediate success or not? And then two, were they like go do something else because you suck or because the industry don't work or because it's fake? Like, what was there?

Too risky. Like, it's just not the norm. Like, commission-only job, you know, can take you a long time. Not many people are successful at it. Like, it's, it seemed like ups and downs, you know, not consistent. But my income has not been like this since I started. It's been like that. Yeah, so I gotta prove them wrong. And now my dad is very supportive of me.

I bet he loves that. I bet. What change— how did you talk about the change of it? Like, so the beginning, you immediately said you weren't that good at it, you were getting run over, I assume. You know, um, a lot of people come into the business thinking it's all about creating a friendship and being super nice to— and nice to everyone and over the top. And like, most people struggle with that.

Yeah.

Um, how did you get out of that?

I watched a lot of videos, um, listened to, you know, recordings of other final expense agents selling, going on the coaching calls that my agency has every single morning, just like learning as much as I can and being coachable instead of teachable, like actually putting things into action. Um, I knew what I was doing wasn't working, you know, like the thing where you try to like change the script up and you try to do it your own way and reinvent the wheel, you know. I went through that whole thing, but it doesn't work. So eventually, once you've spent hundreds, if not thousands and thousands of dollars on leads and you're not making it back, you know something you're doing is not right.

You would think But you know, most people don't believe that either. They think it's the lead or the IMO or their upline or—

yeah, whatever. You know, like throughout that time I was naive. I blamed the lead, I blamed the system, whatever. You want to blame it on everything except yourself. Yeah, but eventually when you see other people being successful, you got to open your eyes.

Yeah, I agree. I had the same revelation. But it's funny how many— I mean, obviously I've been doing this a long time. I've— I tell people that up front, and it's insane the amount of people that just don't believe it and refuse to accept the accountability of they're doing something wrong.

Yeah, you can't really like teach someone that. They have to go through the trials and tribulations themselves, and either they'll quit or they'll have the revelation. Was there like a moment for you, like something specific changed, or did it just sort of happen a little over time, or how did It happens over time, consistently showing up, consistently being on the coaching calls, the training calls, and watching YouTube videos and taking notes and learning and activity, just doing more.

That's my favorite term.

Time. Yeah.

You got to know that one.

For those that don't know, I've got it on my wall back there too.

I'm a big fan of that.

Yeah.

Oh man, um, if you're in sales and you're trying to figure out how to get effing paid and stop getting so many objections, register now for my 2-day workshop here in Atlanta, Georgia, February 27th, 28th. We're gonna have some special guest speakers. There is an exclusive mastermind for VIP ticket holders. For those that just want to attend the event, you can. There's a very low entry to get into it. We'll be going over everything you need for sales, objections, scripts, role-playing, everything you need to build a business, scale a business, staffing, automations, everything I've learned in the last decade plus building what I've built. Of course, we've had a lot of help, so we'll be going over how to scale it, how to structure it, everything you need to get to the next level. Click on the link, register below. We'll see you there. Interesting. What— how long were you kind of stuck before? First of all, where are you at now, like sales-wise? So what do you— what do you— how's the year or month? Like, where are you at? With it.

Yeah, I will say, I don't even know if you've known— if you know this or not, I fully transitioned into Medicare. Okay, so I'm not even right now doing life insurance. I mean, you know, cross-selling and things like that. Yeah. Um, but I was full-time doing final expense sales, um, after I graduated. I've been— I was full-time final expense for about like a year and a half, doing $30,000-$35,000 a month if she paid. Um, very consistently. And then earlier this year, maybe about 3 months ago— I mean, we've been talking about Medicare residual income, passive income, kind of building up your book of business in that aspect— and I'm like, hey, this AEP, I'm gonna go all out Medicare. And so I completely stopped doing life insurance, and I've been doing Medicare now.

Okay. When's that period? I'm sorry, it's like, are you in it right now?

Yeah, yeah. So annual enrollment period for Medicare is October 15th to December 7th. That's the time each year that's the busiest for all Medicare agents because that everyone on Medicare can change their plan. They can go to a new plan like anyone.

No health stuff, right?

Yeah, for the most part.

Yeah, it's like guaranteed issue essentially.

In a sense, Medicare Advantage is—

and then for a guy that knows nothing about it, that's—

yeah, for the most part, yes. There's some plans that you do have to qualify and whatnot.

Yeah, yeah, makes sense. But there was a—

for me—

okay, why is it purely because of the renewal base? Does that intrigue you more?

The commission structure is a lot different.

Yeah, for sure.

For those that don't really know, with life insurance, like I said, I mean, you could sell a policy today get paid $1,000 tomorrow. What? Yeah, get paid the whole annual premium of the policy within a week of writing it. Easy. Um, with Medicare and then with life insurance, that's really the only commission you get.

Yeah. And you can lose it the day after too, to be clear.

Other than the months 10, 11, and 12, if the person stays on your books that whole year, then you're going to get those residual. But after the first year, you're not really getting much commission off that policy.

Yeah, little baby renewals.

Exactly. Small stuff. And with Medicare, it's kind of the opposite. It's like the other end of the spectrum. You don't get really much upfront, but then every single year the person stays on your book of business, you get a pretty decent commission. So it's more about a numbers game and about retention with Medicare. Yeah. Now, when transitioning this AEP, like everyone I've written up during this AP, I don't get paid on any of them until January.

Are you serious?

Yeah.

How do new agents eat during that time?

You don't. You gotta either have— you gotta have either savings. Like, it's, it's really difficult to just go right into Medicare, like, brand new, fresh.

It's like going to college. Yeah, ramen noodles and— yeah.

I've been— I was blessed because I made a lot of money in life insurance my first 2 years. I was able to save up a lot of money, and now my income right now is just basically from the months 10, 11, and 12 residuals, and then like overrides from agents and whatnot. But everyone I've written up now, I mean, I'm at like 75, 80 people, um, written up during this AEP, I'm not going to get paid on those until January because that's when the policy takes effect.

All in one day. So you get a big chunk in January.

Yeah, basically like within the first 2 weeks.

Then do you start right again in February getting little bits?

Yeah. So you get the big upfront, you get the full year in January, and then every year after that you'll get paid monthly.

Oh, so you don't get anything this February. It'll be next January, then monthly.

Yeah, everything will come in January. And then next year my goal is to kind of do educational Medicare seminars for people turning 65.

Yeah, I know a lot of people that do that stuff. So what do you do after next week? Till next October?

This is the last week of AP.

Yeah, now what?

Then what? A lot of prep for next year. Um, with this—

a lot of prep. 9 months of prep's a long time.

Yeah. So first of all, admin, you know, answering any questions that people have about their new plan to take effect, things like that. Um, still like sending thank you cards and whatnot, but then mostly prepping for the T65 seminars, which is Turning 65.

Oh yeah. So you can do those all year long, right?

Yeah, you can do those all year long, and those take a lot of preparation because you actually have to send out mailers for that. To everyone turning 65 in your county or in your city.

Yeah.

Who's turning 65 in the next like 6 months? Yep. And then you have to set up the restaurant that you're going to be doing it at and buying the food and whatnot like that. Just— and I've never done it before, so just kind of doing research on that and figuring out where I want to do them and whatnot.

I've done them for the annuity space, little lunch and learns and dinner seminars and stuff. They're cool people. You'll load up. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's all about converting them. The same difference, you know, I mean, same thing. It's like people, some are going to come just to eat, some are certainly going to become educated, and then a decent amount are going to try to sneak out the door after it's done before you, you know what I mean? It's like it's just learning it. But I know people that kill it in seminars for sure. Yeah, a lot of annuity money, even if you're doing the Medicare side. Yeah, because their retirement and they got to roll over 401s, things like that.

There's a ton of opportunities. You get, you get all of that. So cross-selling is key because again, with Medicare, you're not getting much if you're signing the person up today. You're really not getting paid for a month or two, or when, when they actually turn 65. But you can cross-sell them the life insurance and the annuities and all those types of things.

That's cool. What, um, what advice would you give people then on the Let's talk more about like the sales side and the closing side and getting people, you know, because a lot of people are in the business, they're like, cool, I understand all that, great, how do I make money? Like, how do we, how do we get paid? So give them either side. I don't care if you Medicare, life, talk generically, the psychology of it all, given, hell, that probably your background didn't hurt with that understanding it, you know. But what, what are some tips you can give people there? And I don't care if we do phone, telesales, personal, how you handle, however you want whatever thoughts you have, I'd love to hear.

Yeah, well, Medicare and life insurance is completely different sales-wise. When I'm talking with a Medicare client, it's strictly about education, and they gotta get it. Like, with Medicare, you can't say, oh, I gotta think about it, or I gotta talk to my husband. Like, you gotta get it. It's required. It's like, here's option 1, here's option 2, which one do you want? Like, this one's got more dental, this one's got more over-the-counter, like, what do you want? So there's not really any selling when it comes to Medicare.

So you're taking orders?

Yeah, yeah, like you're literally just educating the person about what is Medicare, how does it work, how do the benefits work, things like that. So it's totally at the end of the spectrum sales-wise than life insurance. Life insurance, you are selling. I mean, there's a premium to the policy. They— you really got to build the value. And something when I like train agents most agents will sell on price. You can't do that. Most agents will be like, what do you got? I can get you something cheaper. Yeah, you can't sell on price because that's so transactional. You really have to build the value in your— and build the need in your discovery. Educate them about the types of life insurance. Um, again, build the need, build the value for them. Make sure they understand the different components of the plan, how it works, how it's going to pay out, and slow down. There's a lot there that we can kind of go through, but like, so many people talk super fast in their, um, in their script. They're just like kind of reading it instead of making it like more personable and more of conversation, if that makes sense.

Yeah, 100%. I always joke when people come to me with their script, I'm like, let's, let's go through it. Yeah. And then they grab their piece of paper and they're like, hey Caroline. I'm like, bro, I didn't ask if you could read. I'm 100% certain you can read.

Yeah, exactly.

I can— can you— you don't know it still? Like, what? It, it does— it blows my mind how few people—

I did the same thing with one of my agents. I'm like, this is one paragraph in the script. I'm going to read it word for word, two separate ways. The first way, I literally just read it. The second way, I read it, but it didn't sound like I was reading it.

You followed it. Structure.

Yeah, structure. I followed the structure. I put my own words into it, my own tonality. And that's what these agents don't understand. It's not the script. It's just a structure. It's like keeping the guideline. You don't want to read it word for word.

Yeah. What do you think is the most important part of the structure?

I mean, every— every— you look up to like telesales final expense scripts, they all basically say the same thing. Like, they all have the open, they all have the discovery, the health questions, the term versus whole life, like the budget, the close. Like, they all have that same structure to it. Yeah, and they just kind of say it in a different way. Does that make sense?

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, and there's intentionality behind each question. Okay, that's something I think most people don't understand is why you're actually asking a certain question.

What's, what's one or two big ones that you give agents? Like, hey, if you, if you do it this way, here's the re— here's why I do it this way. Give, give one or two.

Like in the discovery, asking how and why questions that actually get the client to open up instead of like yes or no questions. For instance, I'll straight up ask them, let's say this person doesn't have any coverage in place, they're looking because they don't have any coverage in place. Um, I'm like, I almost like to play devil's advocate, like, Miss Betty, why is having coverage— I'm curious. Why is having coverage even important to you? Like, you don't have any right now. Why is it even important to you to have coverage? You've gone so long without it.

Yeah.

In, in my opinion, like, that lowers their guard. It makes me come off as the opposite of a salesperson. I'm like trying to convince you not to get it, essentially. And then, oh, I really want it. Like, this is why you need it. And get them to tell you Yeah, instead of saying, oh, I can assume that this is important to you because you don't want to put the burden on your kids and blah blah blah, and telling them why it's important to you instead of asking them.

Yeah, it's— you're finding a problem so you can solve it. Yeah, and it's— again, it's a good question, and that's the purpose of the discovery.

You're not trying to assume what their need is, you're just discovering what their need is. Yeah, and like the how question, I like to ask, well, how is this gonna look like for your son Jeremy? I mean, Miss Betty, you don't have any coverage in place right now. How is that going to look like for him if, God forbid, he passed away today? You don't have anything. And let them paint that picture and leave it silent. You give them the paintbrush, let them paint it.

Yeah, that's dope. Yeah, it's funny how it's like a lot of— because you said assume, which I think it's important to assume that people need help or you wouldn't be there, right? But you can't assume what triggered it.

Yeah.

And that's the— people get that messed up because I see new agents also go into it going like, I wonder if they need something, you know what I mean? Like they aren't confident in the fact that they even need insurance or want it. And I'm like, they wouldn't have gotten this far if they didn't need something, you mean? So there's something there. Yeah, you just have to—

a reason why they put, put in the request in the first place. That's what you're waiting for.

Yeah, I always tell agents that, like, these people, it's not like they're confused and don't understand if they die something bad's gonna— you know, I mean, the result without insurance, like, everyone understands it. We just kind of pretend and ignore it as human. Like, we just, you know what I mean?

And you want to just pretend that everything's going to be okay.

Yeah, the average consumer, it'll be okay.

Yeah, yeah, that's usually the person's first response, correct?

Something I always, I always say to agents, like, these people are very much procrastinators at this. Oh yeah, I mean, because I, I know deep down they don't They're not confused if they really talked about it, but we're really good at ignoring problems, right? So once you uncover the problem, right, and then you can solve it with your product, how do you go about, especially with your personality type— oh, it'll be fine, yeah, sure, no problem— like, how do you go about preventing them from procrastinating further?

So I will like plant the seed in their head multiple times throughout the call that we are getting this done today. And I'll use that word today multiple times to kind of plant that seed in their head. For instance, well, I'm really glad, Miss Betty, that you reached out so we can get this taken care of for you today. And once we go through the discovery and find their problem, I'll say something along the lines of, well, Miss Betty, I really appreciate you for opening up to me. It sounds like, you know, taking care of your son is very important to you. 'Now, if we can get a plan in place that can prevent that burden from falling on your son here, would there be anything holding you back from getting you approved here today?' Something like that. Or, 'Would that make you happy?' Like, very easy. Just, 'If we can solve the problem, we can find a solution for your problem that we can put in place today, is there anything that would hold you back?' You're trying to prevent any objections from coming up in the end. Yeah. So if there's any objections that would come up in the end, she's going to tell you that now so you can get over them now instead of once you present the quotes.

As you know, a lot of agents try to do that after they're told— after they show pricing and after they're told no. Then they go back and they're like, well, wait, wait, you know, it's like, no, no, the timing is really important.

Once you've given up the quotes, it's a wrap. You're, you're coming off as a salesperson then.

I had a guy reach out to me this weekend. I had this guy reach out this weekend who wants some coaching and stuff, and he's like, I've spent 6 grand on leads and made 2. And I'm like, bro, there's something way off. And he goes, but I got 23 deals pending that just told me no and I have to follow up with. I'm like, you poor guy. Like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry to break it to you, those are not pending policies, bro.

I was literally in the same boat, like, when I first started, and my sister would be like, oh, how's it going? I'd be like, well, you know, I got this guy, he told me he wanted to think about it, I'm definitely gonna get him, he was so nice. He's like, Caroline, I promise you, you are not gonna get him, he's never gonna call you back. I'm like, oh, she's gonna call me back.

Yeah, I bet you still haven't heard. That's funny. I love it. Um, I love that stuff. It is. Yeah. And it's, you know, I think as you said, the biggest thing I got out of what you said is like, accept that you're the problem and then you can then become the solution. When the client's the problem, it's going to be really hard for you to fix anything and you're just kind of hoping on luck. To make this thing work out, right? You know, and I just— I don't, I don't, I don't see that work out too often. Um, so I have a curious question, and you said something earlier and I, I let it go just to stay on point with you, but you said something earlier about like the Medicare side is, um, more of like just taking orders and less closing. They have to have it, all that stuff. Yeah. Why do some Medicare agents still struggle? Like, why are they not just writing You know, I know a guy, you probably know him, but one of the dudes at Cody Stuff, he, he writes like 500, 600 apps during this enrollment period. You know, I mean, like, why is that? Why is everyone not doing that if it's just educating, taking orders? What's the, what's the catch for—

well, I think first of all, around this time, if you're on Medicare or you're getting on Medicare, you're getting bombarded with thousands and thousands of calls. My clients tell me like, I've already gotten 6, 7 calls today. And it's very difficult. I'm not saying you can't do it, but it is very difficult to make it work telesales-wise in Medicare because of that reason, because people are getting so many calls, they're hanging up on everyone, they don't know who to trust, who's a scam in terms of the Medicare side. So most Medicare agents will do it face-to-face. Also, telesales, um, there's a lot more regulations with Medicare. A federal regulated program, so you have to record your calls, um, you have to say certain things, verbiage. If you say things one way, you could end up losing your license, um, so it is kind of difficult in the telesales aspect. Like, yeah, you can dial all day long in life insurance, but I can guarantee you, you're going to get less appointments if you dial the same amount of people Medicare-wise versus life insurance-wise, more stuff. Yeah, so that's one thing. Um, with Medicare, people just don't know who to trust and who not to trust. Um, and then when you are doing face-to-face, like, you do want to be very personable. Like, you want to have a good personality when you're talking to these people. Um, because again, it's a trust thing.

Yeah, you're there with them from this point. They're yours now because you have to— you have to re-enroll them, don't you? You have to re-enroll them next year.

Oh no, no, no, no, no. As long as— well, you want to do an annual review with them, but so they don't bounce. They're in the best plan, like, yeah, you don't have to change.

My point is you have to touch them again, so I don't.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, not re-enroll, using the wrong terminology, but you, you need to stay in contact with your clients, or someone else will certainly try.

Yeah, retention is very important with Medicare. And the more you have on your book of business, you're getting paid for all of those people every single year that they're on your business. So if you don't reach out to them, if you don't set up an appointment for an annual, annual review, someone else probably will. Yeah. And then someone else will take over that.

So lazy agents struggle here. Yes, I bet.

Yeah. And I've always been very good at retention. Like, my retention on the life insurance side was like 92%. So like sending your thank you cards, sending your follow-ups, like that is very important. Um, but yeah, like face to face is, I would say, like, you're way better.

You're still face to face, but you're calling, you're calling to book appointments, right? You're not going, you're not door knocking?

Or with like the seminars, you're—

got it. Yeah, yeah, I get it.

They come to the seminar, I mean, like they fill out the sheet and then you call them to kind of book that appointment. You even buy leads and things like that. Um, with the leads, they're— the most common ones are ones called Medicare Express or some sort of things like that where someone else calls them to book the appointment, they get the scope of appointment, um, all that. Which, if you don't know what that is, you have to wait 48 hours until you actually can have the appointment with them. So like I said, there's a lot of rules, regulations.

This is some— there's some hustle to this game. Yeah, Medicare side.

Yeah, it's like definitely a long-term thing, which eliminates most people, to be clear.

So actually it makes it really kind of, in a sense, easy if you're willing to go through the process.

Oh yeah, yeah. And along the way, once you do build up a good book of business, you get hella referrals.

I was just thinking, I was just gonna ask, I bet referrals is key in this space.

People are always talking about their Medicare benefits. How much dental do you get? I just got this one, blah blah blah. Like, people really rarely talk about like, oh, I just got a life insurance policy. Yeah, referrals, like, you get them, but not as much with Medicare. Most Medicare agents, after like 3, 4 years of hustling, they never have to buy a lead again. They never have to do the seminar again because you're signing these people's brothers and sisters up. You're now signing their kids up when they turn 65. So Yeah, there's a whole ton of referrals. I've gotten more referrals during this annual enrollment period than I ever did in this period of time in life insurance, to give you some perspective.

Yeah. And then obviously you can go in and cross— once they trust you for that, and, and a referral is way easier trust, obviously, you know that. But it's like, once you get that referral for the Medicaid, now it's like, all right, well, why don't we review your other stuff, right? And that seems so simple. Oh yeah, I love it, I love it. So many of you have asked if there's an option for more access, more direct coaching, and so we've created a coaching platform called the Winner's Circle where you have a couple different options. There is a one-on-one option to where we can work directly with you on a regular basis, and then there's a small group setting, 4 to 6 people, really high achievers looking to get to just a new level in in their career. We've had a ton of success in this already. First month, actually the first guy that joined deposited $7,500, worked with them back and forth, one-on-one. The very next month he deposited over $30 grand. So basically a 5x return on his income in 30 days. So if you're looking for something like that, you can click on the link below, get access to an application because I'm not taking everybody. I do wanna make sure it's a good fit for both of us. And if we feel like you'd be a good fit, We'll set up a one-on-one call directly with me and kind of go through your struggles, what you need help with, and what I expect of people that are joining the coaching program. So if you feel like it'd be a good fit for you and something you want more of, click the link below and we'll see you on the other side. Welcome to the Winner's Circle. Totally different now. You mentioned overrides earlier, so you're, you're, you're building, which I love. Clearly, that's my little bit.

A little bit.

Just, just a baby agency right now.

Just a baby agency.

What's your thoughts on it? Does it scare you?

Is it a lot? Yeah, it's definitely a lot. Like, when you start out doing life insurance, if you really want to stick this in the long run, there's two ways that you can build a passive income base. You either go Medicare or you build an agency and you get the overrides. Obviously, I dabbled in both. Yeah. Um, Medicare is definitely like a long-term thing, like You gotta, you gotta stay committed. You're not gonna get paid a lot, like, in the beginning, and then over time it'll all accumulate, and then you get that passive income. On the agency side, it's also very difficult. I mean, I poured hours and hours and hours into agents for them to just leave, you know, 2 or 3 or 4 weeks in, um, going on daily calls, weekly Zoom calls. Things like listening to countless hours of recordings of presentations. It's definitely a lot. And so like if you don't have a solid system in place, I was like all over the place with my calendar. I'm like, yeah, I don't know when to give time to agents, when to give time to myself, when's my personal time. Like time blocking is so essential when you're building an agency. It's definitely a challenge. So not to say I'm not gonna do it, but like a little bit more.

It's a different game. Not everybody's built for it, and that's not a bad thing. You know, it's, um, I live it, obviously I teach it, I coach it, and I help a ton of people with it. But it's a, it's an interesting, it's, it's even harder with what you said your personality type is because you want to help people so much, you know. And the reality is the more I work with people to help them build their agencies, the more I have to teach people The hardest part for people to grasp is that you quite literally have to have such, like, specific boundaries with people and be willing to cut them off if they aren't doing what it takes. They aren't coachable, they aren't— you know what I mean? And that's really— it's hard. It's also hard to, like, decipher when to do that.

Absolutely.

You know what I mean? Because, because sometimes you do it I learned early my expectations of building. I expected everybody to be a top producer, and I'm like, if you're not, I'm cutting you off. And that's, that's not fair either. It's like, okay, you can, you can be quote-unquote mediocre. Yeah, but now I just have to do a better job at explaining what it's going to be like for you. It's going to be inconsistent, you know what I mean? There's like, there's ways to manage both, um, but it's, it's a, it's a, it's a— I love that side of the game because of the challenge of it. But it's, it's hard. But I, I work— I, you know, I talk to Jalen and Mike a decent amount. Not a ton, but every month or two we check in or get on their call, obviously, or do something with them. And it's, um, it's fun working with them because they're— they listen and they implement stuff.

Mike and Jalen are awesome, and they're great mentors for me as I started building my agency. Like, they would coach me through the things they learned and they did wrong. When they built their own agency. The main thing I learned from them is push people back to the system. Like, if you want to hop on a one-on-one call with me but you're not going on the morning calls and you're not going on the dial sessions, like, correct, I'm not going to give you my time.

That's that boundary, right? And that's funny. It's like, that's— it is funny. Some of y'all agents watching, we love you, but it's like they'll go MIA or ghost you for 3 weeks and then they'll have an appointment and they'll call you 16 times like, I need help now. I'm like, 'Yo, stop.' It's, um, it's always funny, but it, you know, it sucks to like watch people's potential and have to give up on them in a sense. Yeah, you know what I mean? Or cut them off in a way, or whatever the wording you want to use. What did it for me is understanding that if you were that needy agent that doesn't listen, it's not coachable, doesn't get on the train, right? But you, you're constantly asking me for help, but you don't implement anything I tell you, you're just that agent. If I keep up with you, it stops me from spending time with someone else who is willing, especially when I'm dealing with 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 of you. You know, it's like, ah, and that's— I learned I was missing really good people because I was trying to drag other people to success. Right. And that made it easy to go.

That's the step before that, when you're initially bringing people on. And everyone has a different, like, opinion on this. Like, do you interview your agents or do you just bring anyone on?

I agree, most don't interview them at all.

Most don't. And it was so difficult for me because, like, when I would talk to the person over the phone, you think they will and then they won't. And then some other people, you think they won't and then they will. Yeah, it's so hard to tell from like a 30-minute phone call. So everyone has such a different opinion on that.

Yeah, it's, it's learning that any of the questions you ask them that you think are good, they're going to give you the answers you want to hear. Like, are you going to be coachable? Yeah. Are you going to get on the team calls? Yeah. Are you willing to work hard?

Yeah.

You willing to invest? Yeah. Yeah, they're just such poor questions, right? You know what I mean? They're, they're worth asking But what I've learned is the best thing that I've done to prevent the frustration and not make me have to cut people off— they just kind of go away on their own— is I always give people a little task to do and then tell them to report back to me when they're done so I can give them the next thing. Yep. And it's like kind of like playing fetch in a weird way. It sounds ruder than it is, but it's like, go do this and when you're done, bring it back, I'll give you the next thing. Yeah. And I've learned if I— people who say I'm willing to do everything, I go, cool, go study this and then let me know. Hey, go watch this training, then let me know. Hey, go make this many calls, then let me know. Go buy the leads, then let me know. Whatever it is, when they don't do it because they put things off and they don't do the things they say they're going to do, and they don't hold themselves accountable, and they don't make the phone calls. They don't ever get the opportunity to come back to me and go, I'm ready for the next thing. Does that make sense? So I've learned how to give people— and I tell them, I'm literally testing you because most people drop the ball. Yeah. So I'm going to give you small things to do, and I'm going to have you report back to me. I can go as fast— I can go way faster than you can. So as fast as you can come back, I'll give you more. I'm— this will be a complete test, and 99% of people fall off. Oh yeah, so I'm super transparent about it too, and they still don't do the thing that they say they'll do. I'm like, can you do this? Yes. Cool, do it, call me back. Yeah, it's wild how many don't. But what it does is it makes it easy on me, right? Because I don't ever have to work.

You don't have to be the person, correct?

I'm not stressed about it. It's easy. I don't have to because every— the— I put the burden of communication on them, right? And when you let me know, I'll give you more. For me, that helped solve that like weird gap, right? You know, and people just weed themselves out, which is dope.

Yeah, I learned the exact same thing. And like giving people a deadline— if you don't do it by the deadline, correct, you're not holding yourself accountable here.

100%.

Yeah, I mean, I've had those If I'm constantly reaching out to you to send me your recording, send me your script, let's have a call, like, you gotta reach out to me. I reached out to my mentor when I first started, to Mike and Jalen, like every day. I was calling them more than their girlfriends.

I've had this conversation with them a lot. They, they, at the beginning, they, we all did, we struggle with that, that concept and how easy it is to solve when you're, when you're, when you're intentional about it. You know, so you'll get, you'll get there if you want to. You have, you have, you have a, a uniqueness about you that has this desire more than most, and you implement, which is cool. Like, watching you over the last couple years change and, you know, I mean, grow, it's been, it's been neat. And at a distance, not like we talk ever really. I mean, we say hey at events, but I watch you when you speak and the way you, you know, I mean, it's neat to see. So, uh, I'll be watching, see what you— see what you go out there and build. It'll be— it'll be fun to get some updates.

Yeah, absolutely.

As you go through this thing, I love it. Well, let's, um— I'll let you end with any— anything either you want to put out there that I didn't ask or you'd like to, and/or any words of encouragement that you want to give people watching.

Oh, that's a tough one. Well, for new agents, I will say that, you know, the average learning curve for a new agent is like 3-4 months. And most people do think that in this industry it is a get-rich-quick scheme. They see people, you know, making $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 selling life insurance, and it's totally possible. Probably it's way easier than being a doctor or going to medical school, but it does take a lot of commitment and dedication and investing. So stick at it, stay consistent. I'm not going to say anything special that anyone else hasn't said on this podcast.

Correct. Which is perfect.

You're not going to hear anything different from me. There's no special leads, there's no special script or anything like that. Don't reinvent the wheel. Just listen. Find a good mentor that you can respect and has the same like the same, like, moral compass as you, essentially. Yeah. Um, that you feel comfortable talking to. I didn't like my first mentor, so I found a new one. Mike and Jaylen are great.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's all— it's certainly about a balance, because some people want the best mentor, but they aren't willing to put in the work to deserve that best mentor. I mean, that's the one thing you always did for them. You were crazy coachable. That I know. Like, when I ask them, I'm like, who's by far— they— you come up in conversation every time, you know what I mean? And that's, that's what allowed them to pour into you. So some people want what you have, but they aren't willing to do what you did to get what you have, right?

Like, you just seem like the facade, but you don't see it. Everything kind of went into it behind the scenes.

Yeah, man, people reach out to me literally every single day of the week. I want to be in your agency, I want to be— and I'm like Ah, it's deeper than that. You probably ain't willing to work hard enough for me. You know what I mean? I just, most people aren't. Most people just, I want to build a big team, but they, they just, they are, they, ah, I struggle with it. I do love helping people, but I can't help all of y'all. So it's like I'm looking for a unique, a unique fit, the right people.

Yeah, exactly.

So I love it. Well, cool. It's been fun. Um, we'll share out if you want. Just send— my team probably already asked, but if not, they will— to put all your social and stuff like that. We'll put it in the links. If you'd like to share any of that stuff, you're welcome to. Um, and if, if not, then it won't be there for y'all watching. But if you'd like to put anything out, you certainly can. And, um, otherwise, appreciate having you on, and we'll chat soon.

Thanks, John. Appreciate you. Talk to you soon.

All right, later.