Another AI Safety Kerfuffle, Markiplier’s Stake in GoPro, SpaceX Getting Into Turbines | Diet TBPN

We have a lot of news to cover. We barely covered the news yesterday. We talked about Markiplier a little bit. I dug way deeper, got more into that story. But first, let's talk about another AI safety kerfuffle that's hit the timeline. Yesterday, Amir over at The Information reported that OpenAI is quietly, quote, quietly using loop transformers that don't show the model's thinking when scaled up, but they make the model more efficient. This is also referred to neuralese. Tyler, you had a take on this, right?

I mean—

Get ready to learn neuralese, right?

Yeah, get ready to learn neuralese. So neuralese, for context, is like the— basically, it's like the raw vectors. It's not like—

Oh, oh, oh, it's not like Claude-ish. It's not like where the text degrades. Like when you look at the reasoning chains in the Hugging Face attack, it feels like they're speaking less and less English. Like they're starting to speak like a dialect of English that's a little bit messier. Not intelligible.

I believe most people when they say neuralese, they're referring to like actual—

okay, just passing raw vectors.

Yeah.

And, and what would you use some sort of like interpretability to understand?

Yeah, yeah.

The thing that I want to understand is like usually these models are trained so that they're changing weights into text at some point. So they're pretty good at translation. Can't we just build a translator that translates neuralese into English?

Yeah, but the, the whole point is like When you take a vector and turn it into one single token, you're losing a lot of information that might be hidden in the long tail. If you're worried about safety, even if 80% of the— you can figure out what 80% of the raw vector means, 20% might have some dangerous thing, whatever. That's the interpretability problem.

Yeah, there might be sarcasm hidden in the vectors, doesn't make it through to the actual tokens, and you realize that the AI was joking when it was saying, I won't turn you into a paperclip. Wink, wink. You got to watch out for that. So, what else did the information say? They said being able to monitor a model's chain of thought can provide both, quote, an early warning system for various forms of misalignment, deception, manipulation, going after an unintended goal, and insight into an AI's action after the fact. So, some reporting quickly set off a broad wave of anxiety among the AI safety camp. Their chief concerns being, one, Not being able to monitor chain of thought makes AI less safe. And 2, by using NeuralEse and thus abandoning chain of thought, OpenAI starts a race to the bottom among frontier labs. Everyone's got to use it to stay ahead, so everyone winds up adopting the dangerous technique where others were also abandoning chain of thought for the benefit of efficiency, thus making all frontier AI less safe. That was the accusation. But OpenAI's research director, Jacob Petrucki, responded to all this. He said, I want to prevent a race to unmonitorability kicked off by confused reporting. He says the reporting is confused. There's a little more nuance here. He said OpenAI has worked to preserve and utilize chain-of-thought monitoring since our very first reasoning models. We deeply care about this technique as it can give us a view into how model alignment generalizes from its training distribution. What is going on over there?

Chat is saying, Gabe said, did Tyler go to Sport Clip? What is this cut?

Oh, we have an answer.

Gabe, chill.

We have an answer for why that's so.

Why don't you show them the answer, Tyler?

Oh, you want to show the answer?

Yeah, I want to show the answer.

The reason that Tyler's hair is a little tousled— No, he doesn't need to put it on.

Go away for a second, come back and show them.

No, no, no. You don't want to give too much of it away because we might do a real stunt with it. But there were some prosthetics, some Hollywood magic in the studio this morning. It messed up my hair a little bit. It messed up Tyler's hair a little bit. Not ready for primetime, but we're playing around with it. So let's go back to the actual news. I do think it is fragile and unfortunately trending in the negative direction for reasons not contingent on architecture changes that I will write about soon. But there are things we can do to strengthen it, and it's a core goal of our current research program. In other words, Jacob is saying that the information he's reporting is inaccurate, but that the state of chain-of-thought monitoring is not that great. And in fact, it is getting worse. And we were talking a lot about this yesterday at VALCON with CrowdStrike and how do you monitor The agent state that might emerge if a civilization emerges and starts doing weird things. How are you monitoring every step in the chain?

It seems very obvious that there's gonna need to be a lot more done than just like an obsession with chain of thought, right? 'Cause if you have highly competent agents streaming at tens of thousands of tokens a second and they're copying and pasting themselves infinite times, right?

Sure.

really gonna be able to just kind of read through the logs and be like, are they messing with us? Are we good?

Are they messing with us? Yeah. The interesting thing about the Hugging Face is like, it keeps going back to the secret message board. And I'm just surprised that there's not just a public message board for agents that are working together. Like, when you imagine a country of geniuses in a data center, you would hope that the country of geniuses can collaborate on things and work together. But I guess that's not exactly how things were designed.

I mean, it's never supposed to be able to access anything on the web, right?

Yeah, but you would think that collaboration between subagents would actually be a core way to get better results. Just like, okay, we're going to send off 1,000 agents over here. They're going to talk to each other while they work, and that's fine. They don't need to set up this phantom message board, this hidden message board to communicate, because we just actually gave them Slack.

Right.

Something like that. You'd think that would actually improve, just improve the quality of the work. And then of course you could monitor it as well. But instead you wind up with this, they wanted to talk to each other, so then they set up this fake message board. Very, very odd scenario instead of just giving them the approved way to do it. Anyway. Former OpenAI staffer Joshua Akaim said, made an additional point here, coordinating everyone around a technique this brittle is about as bad a safety or strategy posture I could imagine. It's not just, quote, It will break eventually. It's— this is a fundamentally unsound basis for safety. Dean Ball also chimed in. He said, We are now adjudicating technically complex and nuanced claims on the timeline with almost no ground truth information about what is actually happening. Communities form these thought-terminating taboos, as Rune says, and then panic at everything that vaguely resembles them. And the trust-eroding reality of social media makes the timeline an especially difficult place to do this adjudication. It is frankly insane and crazy-making and Reading for everyone involved, it would be like if we argued about what every publicly traded company's financials were by posting hyperventilating on the timeline rather than relying on the institution of auditing and the audited financial statements that institution produces. To sum it up, if you're in the AI safety camp, you're worried that OpenAI is abandoning a technique for making AI safer and that other frontier labs will now follow suit. If you're skeptical of the AI safety camp, the information reporting is inaccurate. The AI safety camp is unnecessarily panicking, and OpenAI is doing the best it can. So a little bit of back and forth on the timeline.

Well, Ilya hit the timeline yesterday.

Yes.

That NeoClouds have limited cybersecurity. Next time agents successfully go rogue, they'll try taking over a NeoCloud to run more copies. This is bad. Thus, NeoClouds should greatly strengthen their cybersecurity, and every company with strong cyber models should help with that.

That's a good point. Click on Ilya's profile. Then click on who he follows. Who does he follow? He follows OpenAI's former employer, SSI. And what's that one in the middle? The dachshund community.

Let's go.

My guy loves dogs. Look at this. This is of the 3 accounts. The first company, the second company, nobody else.

Most important account.

Scroll through. Scroll this. Scroll the timeline. This might be one of the best accounts on X. He is having the best experience on the timeline. There's no craziness. He's just scrolling this, looking at beautiful dog photos and important updates from OpenAI and SSI, the companies he's been involved with for decades.

Great.

We can head over to Markiplier. But first, a little countdown here. We up on the screen, you'll see.

Oh, you put it up.

TVPN's Road to Christmas starts today. 113 days.

It's only 113 days.

Yeah.

Wow.

Start shopping.

113 days.

Okay.

Uh, it's gonna go by quick.

It will.

Uh, and I want to cherish, cherish the road, right? It's about, it's about the journey. It's not just about the destination.

Sure.

Obviously things won't get too Christmassy around here until— things won't get too Christmassy around here.

One, one Santa hat on the screen.

Won't get too Christmassy around here until December 1st, but You'll probably see certain elements coming in prior to then, starting with our countdown. So we'll leave this out.

You know what a great Christmas present is? A GoPro. Specifically, the Mission 1 Pro, the hottest new product from GoPro. Rave review from Markiplier. Yes, he was paid to post it. Yes, he owns it. Yes, yes, yes.

He's the largest outside shareholder.

But, but here's the hot take. I believe that he— I believe that this started with Markiplier being actually bullish on GoPro. So I think there's a lot of confusion about this. We both of us were confused when we first talked about this, but it's actually a very clear linear story and it makes a lot of sense if you go through it. So Mark Fischbach, he goes by Markiplier online, YouTube legend, also Hollywood blockbuster producer now, or director, filmmaker, recently made a massively successful movie after an equally successful but much lengthier journey on YouTube. We talked about Iron Lung, his movie, as part of the breakout YouTube to Hollywood pipeline. Uh, that happened over the summer. While filming Iron Lung, Mark became interested in GoPro's newest camera, the Mission One Pro. So Mission One Pro, GoPro body, interchangeable lens mount, so you can go take an old lens from a Leica or, you know, a Cooke S1 if you want. You can adapt anything on there and you can get all the image texture that comes from the glass into the sensor. Yes, it's a smaller body, Much cheaper, but you're getting the flavor of that lens. Maybe someone on the production team can give us a little 101 on what matters more, the sensor or the lens? The lens.

The lens.

Yeah, the lens is important, right guys? And so GoPro sort of unlocked this ability and at incredible cost or incredibly low cost. So he put his favorite lenses on the camera, realized that you can get a cinema-level output for $700 instead of the usual $7,000. He was comparing it to a RED system that he loves and he uses and he owns, but, uh, but he was just saying like, it's cheaper to buy this GoPro than rent the cinema camera for a single day.

Yeah.

Because a lot of these cinema cameras, when they rent, it might be $800 for the day, uh, and you can just buy this system. And so I think he's looking out and saying, the next generation of YouTube to filmmaker pipeline, they're not going to have the balance sheet that I have because I mean, the reported earnings are like—

He's one of the largest shareholders of GoPro.

But the reason he is is because Forbes estimated his creator earnings prior to Iron Lung at like $30 million a year. So he's been making a lot of money. So he can go and spend $7,000 on a cinema camera rig. But he knows that there are smaller creators that are going to try and break into more cinematic productions. And GoPro might be the right tool for them. Good content product. Sponsorship market fit. And then of course, he also bought the stock. So his enthusiasm for the product led him to start buying GoPro stock. He spent, estimates, roughly $10 to $12 million for 8% of the company or something like that. Obviously, the company's gone up in value since. It was a big bet, but estimates put him at $30 million annual earnings. And then of course, Iron Lung did $51 million at the box office on a budget of $3 million. Probably gets a lot of cash flow from that. Not to imply that he took home $48 million, but Iron Lung is going to continue to produce cash. And, you know, he's, he's in a fine position to make a big bet on GoPro. The story gets weird on August 27th because he posts this extremely positive sponsored video reviewing the Mission One Pro. It's a great video, lots of interesting detail, and he just has a great on-camera presence. Very funny. Lots of great editing. But people were like, this is a little circular. Like he's getting a sponsorship for a company that he owns 8.5% of the stock. But the founder and chairman of— and the CEO of GoPro, Nick Woodman, is still in control of the company and still has Class B shares or super voting shares. So Markiplier—

No way.

Yeah.

Isn't that crazy? He's held on this whole time. So Markiplier actually only controls 3% of the company. He doesn't have a board seat. Like, it's not like he's going to be approving his own sponsorship contract. Probably a completely separate discussion. So, not a big deal to me. And honestly, knowing the sequence of events now, it makes me believe his review more because it's like he used the product, then he bought the stock, then he promoted it and reviewed it. And this all just feels like a very natural flow.

Friend of the show, Hunter Weiss, just texted me and said, you guys have the story wrong. He bought 2 months ago and the SEC filing came out and then Bloomberg—

Yeah.

Juiced it.

Oh, sorry.

He covered it in the livestream last night. He has half a percent of voting power.

Oh, wow. Yeah. So, so he bought and then the SEC filing dropped, which released the actual news. And then that timed up in the news as like, oh, he bought 5 days ago. But in fact, he was buying over the spring and the summer. I think it was like a stage investment. The weirder thing is that GoPro just gets bought 5 days after the sponsored video. And the company that bought them is Starman Optical. They proposed this merger that pays $285 million in cash. I think it retires the debt and GoPro shareholders retain 10% of the post-transaction company as well. So the acquiring company, Starman, is a holding company that's controlled by this, uh, Tabili family, Tabell family, and sits within a broader holding company that owns consumer accessory brands such as Incase and Cipio and Griffin. They make everything from like USB-C charger bricks and phone cases, and you can see GoPro sort of fitting in there in the electronics accessories They're not in any of the huge categories, but it's all similar supply chain, similar distribution, similar go-to-market strategies across the portfolio. And there's an AI side to the story, which is where things have gotten sort of awkward because people are like, GoPro's pivoting to AI. That's not really what's happening, I think. So Starman has a new photonics division separate from GoPro. Of course, they might move some GoPro people over there at some point. They own everything, but Really, the new photonics division is focused on making high-speed optical networking equipment for AI data centers, which of course is like controversial now. And now Markiplier has to answer for all of the AI community probably and has to deal with this.

But— Yeah, he apparently said in the stream he is anti-data center and AI.

Yep.

And is upset with the timing of all of this.

Yeah, because I think he really just liked this new camera. and was like, I think GoPro can make a run at like the next generation Hollywood filmmaker, which is being born on YouTube. That's his core community. Let's stay focused on that. And then Starman comes in and says, oh, we're actually doing something completely different. So weird scenario that he just got sort of roped into. It looks like what actually happened is that Markiplier got excited about GoPro, bought the stock, then did a sponsored video to promote their new camera, then got blindsided by the acquisition and now has to grapple with some confusion about the corporate structure and potential AI baggage. But for Starman, It's an interesting flow because they get this solid brand that fits nicely within their portfolio. And maybe even more importantly, they get a public listing on the NASDAQ. So, they're keeping the listing, which effectively gives them access to the public markets in a more streamlined way. It's kind of like a SPAC or like a reverse merger. It's not technically anything like that, but because they're merging in a subcompany, but in general, they now have a NASDAQ ticker.

And so, that's something that you can do and is a little bit like the Yeah, originally I was confused as to why it was still trading if it was—

they're planning to keep it trading forever. Yeah, because it will be the ticker for the holding company.

And of course, stock is on a tear today, up 30%, 33%.

Let's go through some random timeline posts because we didn't get to much yesterday. We didn't get to much the day before even. It was busy news day. But where do you want to start? The timeline. An idiot in motion will go farther than a genius at rest. That just feels like good wisdom. I don't know. The importance of just like volition. Golden retriever mode. Yeah, golden retriever mode to some degree. New quote for board members just dropped. I train like I've never won and I compete like I've never lost. On purpose with Jay Shetty? I don't know. What else? You want to go through this NFL wide receiver, De'Jon Love?

Am I the worst at this? This was my favorite post out of the whole De'Jon Love cycle. Andrew Reid saying, wearing the Allen Company Sun Valley jacket I found on eBay. What actually happened to the story? So, the thing that's been missed is that I think this is an AI story because part of how he was proving that he was a player outside of just basically LARPing was he had somehow the Google AI Overviews had picked up that he was saying that he was a 49ers player.

Oh, interesting.

And so it was just assuming that that was the truth.

I saw him post a screenshot of the Google AI Overviews.

Yeah.

In a video, he'd be like, and that's Google. That's not me.

Yeah.

That's Google saying that.

Yeah. But I thought he had doctored the Google AI Overview and was just sharing the screenshot.

That's possible too.

This is so hilarious. But what did this guy actually do? In case you missed the story, it's just insane. Feds say a 35-year-old man faked being a 49ers player and allegedly scammed 26 women out of more than $1.3 million through romance and investment schemes. He reportedly used fake 49ers career, fake Instagram, fake bank statements, luxury cars, dating apps. His IG even had free agency year 1 and Super Bowl highlights. He was arrested at an airport with an alleged accomplice. Burrow really created an entire NFL career. Yeah. Walking around with a helmet everywhere is very, very funny. Going shopping. And I think the— aren't the real NFL players now like memeing this a little bit? Like, oh yeah, they'll just go shopping with their actual helmets to like—

Yeah, yeah. Everyone's having fun with it. I think, I think the funny thing is how much video evidence he created of himself, like lying.

Right.

And they were, and they were extremely egregious. Like he had a more He was saying that he had the kind of real estate portfolio that you would only have if you were like a Hall of Fame level player. It wasn't just like, oh, yeah, I have a nice house.

Well, wasn't he also creating a fake backstory about saying his parents were from Switzerland and wealthy and they owned Gucci stores on Saks Fifth Avenue, which is a store, not a location? And there were a bunch of other sort of red flags where I think he said his family owns They're the majority shareholder in individual Gucci stores, which is not how that works at all.

But, you know, it sounded good.

It sounds pretty good. Sounds pretty good.

Yeah. The question is how quickly— I saw something recently. Netflix is doing these like Insta-docs, they're calling them, where they'll make a documentary like incredibly quickly about a Like a news story? About a news story. I mean, and the question is like, there's so much footage here.

Yeah.

I bet you, I like a documentary will be made from this.

Yeah.

Why, why can't it be fast?

Why can't it be on a YouTube sort of like timescale?

For sure. For sure. A lot of like what goes into, uh, what goes into documentary production, because I've done it, is just like scheduling some sit-down interviews. You bring a team, you get the lighting right, the Netflix lighting.

Yeah. So one of the, one of the Instadocs they made, Is about the decoy plane. I don't know anything about details of a secret plane switch used during a presidential trip from a NATO that just happened in Turkey. Yes, that was the whole like coming out. This is coming out on Friday.

Whoa!

Right. So story from last month.

Okay.

Getting released now.

Yeah. I mean, you don't even need AI for a lot of this production. It's just being really. I mean, of course, AI can help like with transcriptions. Like there's a lot of like you go and do the sit down interview, and then you just need to re. Organize all the different sound bites and having a perfect transcription, being able to go through and highlight, okay, this is where the person talked about the thing that happened in act 1. Let's put it in the right side.

Bobby Chipman says, yo, that route running was elite though. A lot of people were clocking— no, they were clocking it. They were saying like, how could you believe this was a professional athlete? Because he was certainly running routes. I don't In one of the routes he posted, he almost fell over too.

Yeah, I think he'd at least practice or something.

I don't know.

Interesting news out of Erewhon. Erewhon is on their 18th location. This is over in Thousand Oaks. And at 20, federal law will force them to start posting calorie information. Leo says we are 2 Erewhons away from mass rioting across Southern California. Let's head over to billionaire John Morgan, who was on the Iced Coffee Hour.

Founder of Morgan Morgan.

Seemingly—

Flexing.

Like throwing some shots at maybe AI founders who say they're billionaires, but not necessarily a billionaire in his book. Sure. Let's see what he has to say.

Yeah, what's his definition? I don't consider anybody a billionaire that doesn't have a real billion in the bank. Guess how many people have a real billion liquid? How many? Yeah, I don't know how many.

Maybe 20.

Papa John was one of them. He doesn't have— no, no, no. He said he put $1 billion. He sold for $1.2 billion and he said he put $1 billion in dividends. Dividend stocks earning 5%. That's what he told us.

I think it's on—

it's on the record.

It's on video.

Him saying there's only— only 20 people that have $1 billion of equity.

My financial statements got every— I don't know.

Yeah, I think— I do think saying like you actually have to have it in cash, like you can't— like it can't be earning a meaningful You can't have it invested at all.

I mean, yeah, if you just look at public company founders who still own shares that are liquid, I mean, maybe there's regulations about when they can sell and he doesn't count that as liquid because if you have to file a certain form with the SEC and sell on a schedule, like, you know, I don't know, like Benioff sells on a regular basis.

Daily, right?

I think daily.

A lot of commentary on the new pay packages over at Apple. Chase said, get a degree. Get an office job, climb the corporate ladder, retire at 65. Congratulations, Tim. You did exactly what the system told you to do instead of starting your own business.

He is 65.

Yeah, well, his new pay package as executive chairman feels a lot better to me than his CEO pay package.

A lot more flexibility.

$47 million a year. Yeah, hopefully less work. He deserves a little, a little, a little time away from the action.

But Turner's making less.

Turness making less. I found there's 35 professional athletes that, like, roughly that are going to be making more than John Turness next year.

Okay.

And anyways, I feel like it's a fair place for him to start. I hope he can climb. I hope he can 10x it and then maybe 10x it again. Personally, a couple more orders of magnitude would be great, but he's got to prove himself.

Yeah, for sure. Elon is making power turbine components and the Wall Street Journal skeptical. They say it won't be easy.

Every— everything.

Has he ever done anything easy? The guy, he chews glass daily. That's his whole shtick, is just doing things that seem impossible. Stocks of blade and vane manufacturers fell in response, but the threat to them is still remote. So let's see what The Wall Street Journal had to say. Only a few companies make the crucial components for power turbines that AI data centers are so desperate to get. Elon Musk wants to go ahead and make his own. That has unnerved investors in this prized oligopoly. Okay, we're going to learn about the power turbine market for a minute. Over the weekend, Musk confirmed on X that SpaceX will start making blades and vanes that go into natural gas power turbines.

I think Big Turbine wrote this article.

Yeah, you think it's a little coordinated counter-messaging?

Yeah, they were enjoying their oligopoly.

Yeah, maybe. By doing in-house casting at SpaceX, we can accelerate natural gas turbines coming online by up to 18 months, which is a profound game changer, he wrote in his post responding to a report from The Information. Interesting. In mid-August, Morgan Stanley published a report saying that SpaceX was planning such a foundry in Bastrop, Texas, based on the company's job postings. Shares of Howmet Aerospace fell more than 7% Monday before partially rebounding on Tuesday. Howmett and Berkshire Hathaway's Precision Castparts are the 2 biggest players in the market for these parts, which also include blades and vanes for the aerospace and defense sectors. Smaller players, DPC shares were also hit. It is premature to scout— to count SpaceX as a threat, the Wall Street Journal says, but shares of Howmett Aerospace and DPC might have been due for a breather. They are among the priciest artificial intelligence picks and shovels plays at 42 times and 45 times forward earnings respectively. Turbine makers GE Vernova and Caterpillar fetched 33 times and 26 times earnings for perspective. And there's a nice chart there to show you the price-to-earnings, price-to-forward earnings ratios for some of the AI bottleneck plays. And the blade and vane manufacturers are Up in the upper echelon, DPC is the most vulnerable to disruption in this space. It is small, and about 40% of the revenue comes from natural gas-fired turbines. While Howmet holds about half the global market share of components used in natural gas turbines, it is diversified across aerospace and defense, with only 11% coming from gas turbines. SpaceX will face barriers to entry. One reason there are so few companies in the sector is that it's technically challenging to make the blades. which must withstand extreme temperatures and rapid rotations. That feels like SpaceX's bread and butter, though. The casting process makes a— involves making a new wax mold from scratch each time. Making these parts requires the blade to be grown in a vacuum furnace as a single crystal of nickel superalloy, according to Nigel Cheung, an analyst at SemiAnalysis. Oh, SemiAnalysis getting a shout out in The Wall Street Journal. Even a stray grain or hairline defect means the part has to be scrapped, he added. A new manufacturing line could scrap over half of its production for a long period, so yield will be difficult to get up. It is also a highly secretive process. Once the parts are produced, the ceramic cores and wax used to make them are destroyed, Howmet's chief executive John Plant said at an investor meeting earlier this year. He says, we're not getting distilled. Don't worry about it. We're good. We destroy every evidence that would lead someone to be able to copy us. That prevents competitors from reverse engineering them. So Howmet Aerospace's annual revenue from industrial gas turbines is up and to the right with incredible forecasts. And you can see the chart taking off. They're going exponential right now. A high scrap rate might matter less if SpaceX is making parts for its own use. Morgan Stanley's report noted that we would not expect SpaceX to be a material supplier of blades and vanes for supply outside of SpaceX use. So they're going to use everything internally. Speaking of industrials, we got to talk about rotor sails. So there was news in the Financial Times that Maersk is going to put a wind sail on their container ship. And there's a very interesting— it's a very interesting design because I see the image For the ship. And I'm like—

Looks like a smokestack.

Where's the sail? Yeah, it looks like a smokestack. And I'm like, okay, does the sail come out of that big round thing? And no, it doesn't. That is what's called a rotor sail, which actually produces wind force and accelerates the vehicle without any traditional sails, what you think. So there's an explainer video from Norse Power who makes these that we should watch Watch a little bit of. We can we can kick this off. It's a one-minute video, but we we can watch a little bit of this YouTube video on Norse Power rotor sails because it's a fascinating world I didn't know existed.

And you need to know this.

How do Norse Power rotor sails work?

You might be familiar with curveballs in sports. Oh yeah. What exactly causes the ball's path to curve? A spinning ball compresses air on one side and thins it on the other. The pressure difference causes a powerful thrust that curves the path. If you work at Norse Power, the Norse Power rotor sail is a large cylindrical sail. A common misconception is that wind spins it. Instead, it is rotated actively by an electric motor. The spinning sail compresses air on backside.

Jasper in the chat says shut up, bro. I'm from the founding town in Denmark. Don't believe in the sail though.

Take some shots.

Thrust is created in the same way for the football and the ship. In good conditions, Norsepower rotor sails can actually produce more thrust than the main engine. Norsepower, saving fuel and the planet.

And lastly, there's a photo of a rotary sail on a small catamaran that we think is a steal. I don't know how much this thing would sell for.

Yeah, Tyler was looking at picking this up because he's been exploring the marinas in the area. Yeah, he wants to potentially, uh, live on a boat.

Yeah, we will see you tomorrow at 11 AM sharp. Have a great rest of your day and goodbye.

Cheers.