Jake Paul Thinks We'll Live Forever

We got Jake Paul. He's here. Come sit down. Jeff Woo too. How you doing?

What's up? What's up? Made it.

How are you?

Good to see you.

What's up, bro? How are you? Good to meet you.

Tell us the news. You raised a bunch of money. Bro, smack that gong.

100 million oversubscribed.

Woo!

There we go.

You can do it. You can do it. Wow. Wow. Come on. Great to see you. Great to see you.

Good to see you. Thanks for having us. Tell us about the fund. Who do you raise money from? Are you talking to endowments? Now? Are these your friends? Is it all your money? What's going on there? You're good.

Yeah. A lot of our own money. We have a 10%, maybe even more. It's like 10, 12, 13, 14% GP commit.

Cool. Getting in the game.

Yeah. Our lead investor is Aquarian Holdings. So, shout out to Rudy and Eric. They've believed in us for a long time. They doubled down into our growth fund and it's been a great relationship with them. And then, yeah, just like other people that we know in our network.

Yeah. Highlights from the funds—

I mean, sorry, I was gonna say like, I think going from more of just investing our own money, I think we are going more institutional, right? So, Aquarian, they manage $27 billion plus as an insurance holding company. So, I think we're just proving our sophistication as fiduciaries, as investors to be like, hey, endowments, institutions, we can compound money faster and better than other VCs can for you.

How is the strategy changing with the new fund? Is it changing?

I think—

Like, number of checks, check size, ownership, all that good stuff.

Yes, time has gone on. I think the barbell approach for us has been very successful. I think going big with bigger checks into growth stages in companies that we believe in with the best founders, you know, you don't bet against Palmer Luckey, Elon, Sam, the big names like that. And getting to fast DPI, you know, going into SpaceX and XAI, working with Jared Burchell to get into some of those rounds. And then, you know, you're liquid very quickly. And so, I think that's very attractive in putting bigger checks into companies like that. And then on VentureOne, early stage, you know, and getting in, betting on founders, from day one sometimes, and yet taking that more venture approach on that side of things. We've deployed our full Venture 1. This is our Growth 1, going into Venture 2 now, raising for that, and then pretty much fully deployed on Growth 1. We've been working on it for the past, you know, 8 months, getting into a lot of these big companies and actually going into Growth 2 already. And so we've just had tons of great access.

Yeah.

And I think that's obviously the key, and just we're hustling and in all the right rooms, providing marketing support, consultant support on that side of things, which a lot of these companies need. That's what we've realized in every room that we go into, whether it's, I mean, I won't say names, but pretty much everyone needs users.

Sure, yeah.

And so—

Distribution.

You'd be surprised at the level of marketing knowledge that these companies have. It's like, day one, very basic. These are the most technical companies in the world, right? But they're not the best at breaking through to grow their users. And so we've just been able to really help on that side of things. And the most basic 30-minute call about marketing is extremely helpful for these companies.

Yeah, well, take us through it. Like, what are you actually talking to a tech company that might have their pitch dialed for investors or engineers.

Or even customers once they get them on a call.

Customers, but like, it's just that whatever story they're telling, it's not resonating with just the normal person. And I feel like you've gone so big with everything that you've done that you've touched every part of America, the world globally, and you can probably offer more feedback and advice on just like how to tell a story as a company that resonates outside of this tiny little, you know, enclave in San Francisco.

Yeah, no, correct. I mean, I went from Vine to then it was YouTube, then Facebook popped off, then Snapchat was the thing. Me and my brother were the first people making Snapchat stories, like a full content. Evan Spiegel invites us out, asking us like how we like the app, what, what can we change in Venice? And then it went, um,, you know, to all these different platforms, TikTok, Reels. So it's been however many years, like 14, 15 years of knowing exactly how to talk to the audience and be relatable and grow brands and my own brands from BetterW, Antifund, MVP becoming the, the biggest, uh, boxing company in the last 4 years.

Mm-hmm.

And so I could do it from a personal side, but I also understand it from a corporate side. And I think a lot of the times, you know, these companies raise all this money, they have a big balance sheet, they're printing cash, and they get really corporate with their messaging and they wanna create like a $1, $2, $3, $4 million commercial.

Mm-hmm.

And I think oftentimes that doesn't reach the audience. And so it's actually just a lot of times telling them to be more relatable and to, to scale down and to, tell their story in an easier to understand way. And obviously I'm summarizing and it depends on like what the company is, right? We've helped companies market, you know, towards engineers. Sure. 'Cause that, you know, they're maybe just an engineering product. And so it's like, how do we appeal to that side of things? So each case is different, but, Yeah, it's just second nature and I think been pretty helpful.

Do you remember the first piece of content you ever created?

I was born on camera, so my— and I didn't know that until like 2 years ago. My mom's like, look at this footage of you being born. I was like, oh great, you've never shown me this. Like, what are we doing, Mom? Like, you didn't—

this is a great part of the story. Influencer era, you know?

Yeah. What about the first time, the first platform that you were on, or the first series, or the first, uh, like the first content where you're like, okay, this is, I'm taking this seriously.

Yeah, I would say it was Vine. So I downloaded Vine the first day it came out. Uh, it was promoted through, through Twitter. I was like, oh, this is super interesting. And I just started making videos in like my cafeteria in school and just doing random stuff. I was like the class clown. I loved making videos. Me and my brother had been on YouTube before that, just messing around, cooking up edits with our video camera and posting it on YouTube. So we were naturally kind of like good at making the content. And when Vine came out, I thought it was super cool. I got to like 40 followers. Everyone in the high school was like, this is hilarious. Your videos are funny. Um, and then me and my brother got into an argument about like how to film a video. And I was like, bro, I have more followers than you. Yeah. Like, shut up.

47, 40.

And I had like, yeah, 40 followers and he had like 20.

Hogged.

And I hogged him so hard that day. And that's what, that's actually what changed everything. 'Cause the next day he started like putting a ton of effort into his Vine videos. And I was watching him, I was like, oh, that was really good. Oh, oh, he's really doing this. And then he got to like 80 followers. I was at like 80. And then we just kept on putting more effort. And like 2 weeks later, one of the videos that we made went viral. And once we tasted that success, we both gained like 5,000 followers. We were like, oh my gosh, we're famous. Like, this is it. We're the coolest people ever. Um, and once we figured out that recipe of like the level it took to make a viral video, we just kept on cranking that level out and it just one thing led to another. And once we realized we could make money from it, I got paid like $200 for my first brand deal. And I was landscaping. I had my own landscaping company and I was making $10 an hour and I was like, $200 for a 6-second video?

You don't have to be in the hot sun.

Exactly. And that was the motivation to just like take it even more serious.

Has the nature of the competition between you and your brother changed?

Yeah, I think when we were younger it was like very intense and still there. And we were just like young and it was actually good because there was no one else to compete with. We were the two biggest vloggers in the world. And so I was, it was inspiration and competition at the same time. And then as we've gotten older, we're just like, collaborative now and we're on the same team. Obviously, he's a general partner in Antifund and we work together on a lot of things and everything that he does benefits me and vice versa. And so, it's like building out a— we're the testosterone Kardashians essentially. It's just like, any given day of the week, you got to see one of our faces somewhere. So— Mm-hmm.

The Kardashians of testosterone. How do you think about capacity? You've got a great partner in Jeff with Antifund, but multiple businesses, it feels like there's always some ceiling. Maybe you haven't found it yet, but yeah, what's the limit?

Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, every year I've just continued to compound since I was 16 years old. And I think it's just a testament to scale, team, having great partners on all different sides of the business and the best in class, uh, from Gus, the best videographer in the world, to Laura and all, all these people around are just top notch. And I think that's, that's been a massive part of it. And then just continuing to— you know, see ahead and know where the ball is going. I think that's one of my best attributes is, is being a visionary and being able to pivot, move, change, adapt, and continue to grow my career that way. But again, I think it just goes back to team. And I'm inspired by people like Elon, where it's like, how do you have, you know, 4, 5, 6, of the biggest, some of the biggest companies in the world. I mean, obviously he's a machine and I don't stop. I work all the time around the clock and it's like, even if I'm doing something fun, I'm filming it to be posted as content. So like, it's just nonstop grind for the past, you know, 14 years. And I just love hard work.

What's the future of boxing in America?

Yeah, that's an interesting category because it's not— you're going up against the biggest names, the biggest balance sheets in the world competing over a market that historically hasn't been a monopoly, but maybe is— there are some efforts to try to create a monopoly in that space.

Yeah, it's not going to work. I think so many people have tried to take over the sport of boxing and it just— too diversified, too many sanctioning bodies with the belts, too many fighters and promoters and managers involved. And it's a sport that is always gonna be, you know, scattered across the board. And I think our strategy on that was essentially we're the WNBA of— Mm-hmm. Boxing because we've cornered a market in women's boxing and believed in Amanda Serrano since day one. And that was really the test case to say, okay, we can make a woman a massive star and take her from making $500 a fight to $5 million a fight. And no one is pushing women's boxing. They deserve to be pushed. Their fights are arguably more entertaining, especially than Floyd Mayweather, for sure, without a doubt.

And—

We saw that and we were like, all right, let's go after women's boxing 'cause it's untapped. And now we have, you know, 7 out of the 10 pound for pound best women fighters and 40 overall, some of the best up and coming talent. And that's where we found a little bit of a niche as well as being the leaders of, working with Netflix. I think pay-per-view, there's so much piracy and so many issues with that. And so I was the first one to be like, all right, there was the TV era of boxing, then there was the pay-per-view era. And then I was like, now we're in the streaming era.

Mm-hmm.

And so realizing that we had to pivot the business model to be accessible where it's like, if you have Netflix or one of these subscriptions, you're not gonna, want— you don't care. You're gonna, you're gonna pay the $7 a month or $10 a month or whatever it is now, um, and getting distribution that way. Obviously I'll probably still do pay-per-view fights here and there, but we're definitely moving into the, the streaming era of boxing.

How do you think the Tyson fight broke Netflix, right?

Oh yeah, it did, right? That literally broke the platform for such a, yeah, storied engineering team over there for decades.

How do you How have you approached negotiating with platforms like a Netflix? Like, what does your team look like for that?

Yeah, so my business partner and most valuable promotions, Nikita Vederian, is one of the best negotiators in the world. But he was the CFO at UFC when they sold to Endeavor and he helped lead the sale and was a, important part of their organization for many years.

And— So you think Dana took that personally?

Oh yeah, that's, that's a whole big part of the beef. Um, it's not just me, it's the fact that, yeah, Nikkisa and I have, have teamed up together. Um, so yeah, definitely a sore subject for, for Dana. And yeah, I think it's just having the relationships and making the right fights at the right moments. And we've also, you know, put on amazing events and have great relationships with so many fighters. And so we're able to pull together the Ronda Rouseys, the Francis Ngannous, the Nate Diazes, the Mike Perrys, because we've always been fighter first. So people love working with us. We came into the world that was, I say it was like taxi and we're Uber in the fight world. The way we run things is like a startup professional treating fighters right. We're on time, we pay, you know, instantly. All these little details, production, fighter kits, helping them, instant communication, social media tips, the list goes on. These things are all like super basic to me. Mm-hmm. And Nikisa, but in the fighting world, it's like fighters will fight and then like not get paid for like a year. And the— just like, there's so many issues in the sport. So just by running it like a proper SF startup, we've— amongst many other things, but we— that's where the— why we've been able to become the number one promoter in the sport in 4 years when a lot of these other people have been doing it for 30, 40, 50 years. I mean, Bob Arum, I don't even know, that guy's like 100 years old. He probably was alive when the T-Rexes were running around. So it's like just these small little changes are why we've risen to the top.

How do you think the results of America 250 are gonna impact the UFC? On one hand, the Gaethje story of, you know, coming back from this, you know, really brutal knockout a couple years ago to then, you know, getting the belt is amazing. But at the same time, in the process, he took out, you know, a rising global superstar. And so I can make an argument that it's good or bad for the UFC, but I'm wondering how you processed it.

Yeah, look, I think the event overall was great and great for fight sports in general. —and it was such an entertaining show. So I think overall, for all of MMA, it's a net positive. And I think it just depends how Ilia comes back, right? I mean, I think Conor McGregor has lost so many times, but his brand has, you know, stayed up there because he just keeps on fighting. He keeps on coming back. He keeps on— trying. And so I think it's up to Ilia on that one. But yeah, Justin Gaethje is like overnight superstar legend, and, uh, we'll see, you know, how far he can go from here at his older age. But overall—

What's the mindset of a fighter that's rising, you know, through the ranks when you have a fight like Ilia just had? You're taking damage that's gonna probably stay with you in some capacity forever. Are fighters like pretty acutely aware that at any point you could take a beating that like you makes it a lot harder to come back from? I'm sure you've gone through.

Yeah, look, I think they're definitely aware of it. I think the thing is, is that they're just addicted to the sport and it's really all they know. And they're willing to sacrifice for that thrill and for that entertainment, for the love of the game. So I don't think they necessarily care. And you know that going into the sport that it's brutal and tough and rough on the body and it's going to affect your health potentially in the long run. I think people deal with the effects of injuries differently. Yeah. But to each their own. And I think a lot of fighters know what they're signing up for.

How did you process the enhanced games?

I always thought it was dumb.

True.

Yeah, from day one.

Why? Why? It sounds like a good idea. You take something, Olympics is entertaining, you add Steroids fueled the fire. Like, this is Jordi's take.

It's the best people in the world, like you could take something, but the best people in the world are the ones who are the most dedicated to it for 20 years straight. So there's no replicating that 20-year dedication just 'cause—

Yeah, you take somebody that's like 5th best in the world, which seems not that far away from number 1, and you give them all the PEDs, but the gap between 5 and gold, is actually so big that you can give him, again, give him a horse worth of testosterone and it's not gonna make up the difference.

Yeah, no, and again, I believe that's what happened. I didn't watch it. I saw some clip-outs, but I heard the production was bad and that no one beat any records. And then I think—

'Til the very end.

There was some, but there was some like, people who weren't on PEDs that beat the runners. I don't know. But my fiancée is Olympic gold medalist and she was like, I, if anyone, she just won, um, in Milan and she was like, if anyone tried to like do the enhanced games to beat her, like she was like, no one's beating me still. So.

Well, what about more broadly, health maxing, looks maxing, peptides? Do you have a take on the current trend?

Yeah, look, I think it's amazing, right? Like you see today, you know, they just launched the new imaging. Yeah, Midjourney.

Yeah, Midjourney.

It's like the world we're living in is so exciting. And I've told my friends, you know, we were in SF with the Merge Labs guys and Alex Blania was like, yeah, we're all gonna live forever. Like we're just gonna like transfer our mind into some robotic body. And so I think, this whole like health wave. You believe it? Yeah, 1,000%.

You do?

Yeah, 100%.

Do you think that'll be good for the fight game? 'Cause I feel like there's a lot of insane athletes out there that would be incredible fighters, but they're just not willing to take that level, to make the sacrifice to take that level of damage. And if we can solve, you know, CTE and, you know, some of these other things, it could actually make the, the most violent sports on Earth.

I don't think so. I think if someone's like afraid of getting hit in the first place, they're not gonna be a good fighter when they're like, even if they transfer into a robotic body. But also I don't think it'd be entertaining. I think like I'm, I'm very, you know, long on traditional human sports in terms of a business model because the story is what matters and everyone's on the same playing field. So when you put in like robots and all these perks and extra things and blah, blah, blah, I don't think people will enjoy it as much.

What's your timeline to a humanoid being able to beat you in boxing?

I'm sure very soon. Like, I mean, bro, if I'm going up against a metal robot, like I'd probably lose. So.

I know, but, but, but speed, speed matters.

The will, the human spirit.

The human spirit. You're long the human spirit.

Yeah, I think a computer spirit—

Being able to do something on—

There's no spirit. They just don't even feel the pain. It's just like straight up robot. It's like iRobot in real life. It's happening right now.

What about on the investing side? How much of your current thinking is like software-only singularity, invest in the token path versus stuff like bio, health, defense tech, hardware, robotics, all the next-gen stuff that's maybe not product-market fit, not billion-dollar ARR yet, but interesting.

Yeah, I think it's really both, right? So we're pretty AI maxis here. Sure. So we're in OpenAI.

Yeah.

And then going down that stack, right? So you go down the inference providers like the Modals.

Sure.

And then you go to semiconductors. We're in Etched, which is an inference ASIC.

Oh yeah, I love Etched.

We just did Helion, which is a fusion company. Oh yeah, oh yeah. So I think in some sense, I think the software game is, going to be won by an OpenAI, Anthropic, SpaceX, Google, maybe about Cognition and some of these like, yeah, like second tier—

The power law is being realized.

Yeah, because I think there's just so much capital for just all the compute and all the models are getting bigger and bigger. So I think, I mean, partly we're here to just visit El Segundo as well, right?

Oh, sure.

So I think it is like defense tech, robotics, manufacturing. I think getting to atoms is more and more important. Yeah. Going forward. And then secondly, I think biocross AI is also very, very new. I think we're just texting with Sam Altman. He's like, yeah, we're like, it's still really early. Like he, he wasn't like, hey, there's like obvious, yeah, like winners there yet. So I think in terms of like finding that next wave, I think that will be robotics, hardware, bio.

Mm-hmm. What about celebrity brands? What's your framework for, a successful celebrity brand?

Yeah, I mean, I think we're not as excited around those often. I think it has to be—

You're like, leave it to me, buddy.

Yeah, exactly. No, seriously. And yeah, I think it's, unless it's like the Kardashians or someone at that level, then it's, you know, very difficult. So we've been way more selective and then, you know, there's just way more upside on the tech and software side of things versus like CPG. And that's where we're spending our time, right? We're fiduciaries. So at the end of the day, and for our own money. So at the end of the day, it's like, where's time best spent? And that's really how we think about it.

I think to me, like, Celeb is just like a solve for distribution. But I think—

But it's not a full solve.

Because distribution is a flywheel.

It's a half soft distribution.

Distribution is not convert a million people over to this one time. It's how are you going to continue to grow and increase costs?

And hence, I think product is actually most important. I think choosing the right market and the right product is everything. Distribution is just gasoline on that fire. And then I think second, I think Jake is actually very special as a celeb entrepreneur, right? Like his story of just like, being a landscaper, right? I think a lot of celebrity folks that we've crossed paths with, they were really good at singing or dancing or playing a ball sport since they're like 13. So they never actually had to actually hustle their first brand deal, actually think about business.

Yeah, tell a story.

Or they're well known but they don't have an owned audience, right?

Correct.

It's very different, somebody that's posted every single day, for, you know, 15 years to launch.

I think that's why like NFL players are very hard to cross over because like one, their face is not even recognizable 'cause they're in helmets all the time. And then two, the NFL owns their distribution, right? Like NFL is their distribution channel. They don't have an audience that they're used to speaking towards on a daily basis. So I think the internet generation folks are interesting 'cause they own that distribution. And I think I'm lucky to work with Jake 'cause I think Jake has the hybrid of both. Right. Like he's mainstreamed on the Netflix platforms as a professional athlete and has a respect of actually being good at a craft and an art and a sport. Plus he comes with like a, what, like 200 million followers across different channels.

Yeah.

So I think that's where it's like, like an experiment for us where it's like, okay, we have a touch into mainstream, a touch into internet. And then I think there's also just like a hardcore capitalism.

Yeah.

Like, heart that we're like, hey, how do we monetize the opportunity set?

Are haters a source of strength? We were talking to Alex Karp about this. He says all the AI leaders have only haters, no fans. And he was saying, I at least have fans. I have a lot of haters, but I have fans. Are haters a source of strength? In the fullness of time, are you glad you have both fans and haters?

Yeah, 100%. You know, I don't think anyone who does good things in this world or big things in this world doesn't have haters. I mean, it's the day one story. And I honestly, you know, since day one, when I first went viral, the video I was talking about, like I instantly— Cafeteria. Yeah, instantly people in my school started hating. So like, I don't even remember life without haters.

Yeah, your mom, you know, took that video when you were born. I'm sure some of the nurses were like, yeah, this kid's a hater.

This guy.

Yeah, yeah.

No, you have to have it. And you know, good news travels fast, bad news travels faster. And the haters actually will talk about you more and say bad things. But at the end of the day, people don't really remember what was said. They just remember your name and your face. And so you could do with that what you want. And you know, it's really, they're adding to the algorithm at the end of the day. So it's really just, math. And if you just have fans that are saying things, you know, let's say that's 10,000 people, but add 10,000 haters in there and now 20,000 people are talking about you and it just adds to clicks, views, talk, trending.

Mm-hmm.

So that's the way I've always looked at it. And yeah, the biggest and best people in the world all are also the most hated.

Ferrari Luce has a lot of haters. Will you be getting one?

Say it again.

The Ferrari Luce.

Oh.

New electric vehicle from Ferrari. Oh, bro.

Are you hitting the market?

You gotta be careful, 'cause if you want any of those halo cars, you know, this is gonna be permanent.

This is permanent.

I might wanna say, I know you might want an F80 at some point. You gotta be really care— I just want you to be really careful with this.

This is a political answer. No comment. Okay.

No.

That shit's No comment. No comment. No comment.

Oh, well. It was a lot of fun. Well, thank you so much for coming on, David.

Yeah, congrats on the new fund. Gracias a ti. Have fun down in El Segundo. Hopefully give our best to everyone in the South Bay. I'm sure you guys are going to be spending a lot of time there post-SpaceX IPO. It's just going to be more and more action.

Let me close out by telling everyone about the New York Stock Exchange. Want to change the world? Raise capital at the New York Stock Exchange. We were off for a couple days. We'll see you back at 11:00 next week.

Is an IPO like on the—

It can happen.

On the— We got some ideas of things. We're cooking, dog. We're cooking.

Flashbang out. Leave us 5 stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Sign up for a newsletter at tbpn.com. And thank you for tuning in today. Goodbye.

Nice.