#109 - Dr. James DiNicolantonio: Deep Dive Into Weight Loss with Salt

Hi, my name is Jorge Cruise, and I'm known as the number one weight loss strategist to the world's busiest celebrities. I'm also a multiple New York Times bestselling diet author with over 30 books and 12 million fans.

You may have seen my work with Oprah Winfrey, Khloe Kardashian, Tyra Banks, Kelly Clarkson, or even Dr. Oz.

My career started in my early 20s because I was a addicted to sugar, carbs, and salty snacks, and experts told me to simply count calories to get control. They were wrong.

My passion to get radical control over hunger has led me to find a study-proven way that creates Zero Hunger and helps my clients drop 2 pounds each day. And I know I can help you too. Welcome to the Zero Hunger Revolution. Well, happy Sunday everyone!

It's February 14th. I'm Jorge and welcome to the Jorge Cruise Show. Happy Valentine's Day as well, guys. Uh, hopefully having a great weekend and I'm excited because on today's show, you know, I think of Valentine's Day as a day to— for love, obviously, you know, love for others. Hopefully, uh, time to be kind to yourself and, and be loving to what your body needs and a day of self-care. Usually Sunday is the day I do sauna work. I, I relax. I try to sleep in. It's that day to do it. It's usually the day I also have a nice meal, and then I start a 3-day zero hunger window. I'll be doing that tomorrow, Tuesday and Wednesday. So Sundays are important days for me. And today being Valentine's Day, I'm so honored to be sharing with you an interview I shot, uh, with Dr. James Keys, become one of my dearest new friends and really an ally in health because he is the author of The Salt Fix, bestselling book that really transforms your thinking on salt. And we talked about that on episode 98. Now he has a new book that is out called The Immunity Fix, which in today's 2021 world and with COVID-19, you know, starting to calm down, the vaccine is out there, thank God, in February, right? And, uh, but there are things we can do that will improve our immunity. One of them is intermittent fasting. And now a lot of you have been emailing me recently about Jorge Cruise, this zero hunger window. It's a 23-hour window where you don't eat.

This isn't safe.

You're, you're losing muscle.

You're going to have no energy.

You're going to lose your libido. Nothing could be further from the truth. And on today's show, we talk about this immunity fix and how one of the strategies to bolster your immunity, uh, beyond adding sodium into your diet so you can control your appetite and allow your body to go through autophagy, which is your body's ability to do housekeeping. And it's really a time to improve and remove damaged cells from your body. So it keeps you young beyond weight loss, you know, beyond losing up to 2 pounds every day with the Zero Hunger Plan. You allow your body to stay young and it's a state of repair we need. And so on today's show, he's gonna talk about this state of repair known as fasting and why, you know, a regular type of fasting, which is what I do with all my clients, is so beneficial to our immunity and so beneficial to what we need to do during this COVID-19 retake. You know, I know this is 2021, and hopefully by the end of the year everything will be in a better place. But until then, and especially if you're someone who hasn't gotten the vaccine yet— I have not.

I've had COVID.

I talked about it on the show a couple shows ago. And, you know, luckily I have the antibodies. I feel good. I didn't even know I had it, you know. And, you know, the science out there shows that most most people that get it, if you don't have underlying health conditions, you get through it just like a flu or a cold. But some of us may be, you know, in a place where we have those underlying conditions. So I feel like today's show is going to give you the confidence, the motivation to embrace this zero hunger plan that we've talked about and understand how important salt is, but also how having a longer window of intermittent fast, what I call a zero hunger window, especially with the way I do it, a 23-hour window, can be life-altering. And you're going to hear about this from his new book, The Immunity Fix. So I'm so excited to, to introduce this to you, our second interview with Dr. James. It's going to be awesome. Now, before we do that, I'm going to give thanks to our sponsors, guys. We are brought to you by Elemental Labs, and I love Elemental Labs because they make the on-the-go version of what I call zero hunger water. Now, on today's interview, you're going to hear me talking to Dr. James about the Woman's World issue coming out, even though it's already been out. It was out last week. So remember, this interview was recorded last month, so before the issue came out. So we talk about it as if it was coming out, but it doesn't matter, right? And more importantly, if you didn't get the recipe, you can get it by going to zerohungerplan.com and signing up for our newsletter. But if you are on the go and you don't want to make the Zero Hunger water recipe, which is basically sodium, magnesium, and potassium, and there are little hacks to make it taste good without sugar using stevia or monk fruit, lemon, lime, things like that, or cacao powder, uh, drinkelement.com .com is the place where you can get on-the-go versions of this, literally delivered to your house. And it's so convenient. So many of my celebrities use this. A lot of my clients that are on the go and don't have time to make the, the actual recipe for the Zero Hunger Water, uh, do this instead. And what— here's what's great for our listeners, for you guys: you get a free box of electrolytes. It's a $45 value on today's show. By simply going to the following website. When you do a value bundle, and you can customize these value bundles whether you love chocolate, you like salty, and you like a little bit of a kick to it, like spicy. He's got flavors like chili mango, which I love. He also has the more traditional, like, uh, like an orange flavor or a lemon lime flavor. So you got all your options. So delicious. And it's all, uh, you get the fourth box free when you do this value bundle.

So check it out.

Go to drinkelement.com/jorge. Let me spell the URL for you. It's drinkelement.com/jorge. And again, you get a free box of electrolytes when you order the value bundle. It's amazing. It's how I do it on the go. You're, you're gonna love it. Now we're also brought to you by Julian Bakery. Julian Bakery is the premier bakery, I think, on earth for people like me and hopefully you that like brownies. Cookies and even bread, but don't want the carbs. And so if you want to cut the carbs down, check out Julian Bakery. They make the best delicious baked goods and more, and they're giving all our listeners 10% off with the following coupon code at checkout called Jorge Cruise, all one word, all caps. Simply go to their website, julianbakery.com. I'll spell it for you. It's J-U-L-I-A-N-B-A-K-E-R-Y. Aker.com, and then the checkout code, um, coupon code is Jorge Cruise, all one word, all uppercase, J-O-R-G-E C-R-U-I-S-E, and you get 10% off of anything from the bread to the brownies to the chocolate chip cookies, anything. And it's all natural, nothing artificial, and really low carbs and low sugar. Super delicious stuff. I have it a couple times a week. Uh, it's the perfect way to kind of close your eating window and then start your fast again, start your zero hunger window. But get that in there, guys, because this is delicious stuff. You're going to love it. And finally, we're brought to you by thezerohungerplan.com. Zerohungerplan.com is my website, and I'm so honored to be sponsoring the show because the show and the website are kind of like brothers, I would say, and they're connected. They're definitely part of my family, and I'm so excited because Zero Hunger Plan has become the place where I do my coaching. And if you ever want to take it to the next level, level and have live coaching with me, we're opening the doors again. The waitlist is going to be offline. We're giving everyone a free coaching session. So you can go sign up for that now. It'll be sent to you probably next week because we, we've had to take a pause to update some things on our system, but then the live coaching will resume March 14th.

You can find out everything at the website, zero, Z-E-R-O, zerohungerplan.com.

Add your name to the waitlist so you get emailed when the free coaching is available, as well as the coaching membership site. You're gonna love it, and it's the place to make this a lifestyle, because this plan, Zero Hunger Plan, is really the culmination of 20 years of me in publishing. I've written so many books, over 30, 12 on the New York Times, and I can tell you, this is what my career has come down to, is the Zero Hunger Plan. It is my passion. I feel like it's my mission the next 20 years to do this. And I hope you join me because I would love to be your coach. It'd be my honor to serve you and get you to transform your health and drop 2 pounds each day. So check it out, zerohungerplant.com. With that said, guys, I'm excited. You're going to meet, uh, Dr. James. And if you have not heard episode 98, make sure to listen to that because it's a great part 1. That's the original book, The Salt Fix.

In this book, we're going to talk about The Immunity Fix.

And you know, it's powerful. You can do so much to improve your health. At Home During COVID-19 Right Now. You're going to hear this from the man himself. This book is hot off the press. You got to pick this one up too. It's called The Immunity Fix. He's an incredible resource, incredibly thought-provoking, and incredibly backed up by science. You know, he has citations in this book that prove the power of how our bodies can heal and be stronger from fasting.

Welcome everyone to a very special podcast for 2021. I'm so excited. This is for me the best way to start the new year. And you know, it's been such an interesting new year. And obviously so many of us have thought about New Year's resolutions and getting healthy and what we can do to shortcut that. You know, for me, uh, understanding how to improve our health and how to get control over our appetite and our hunger is Such a big thing. And if you guys remember last year, episode 98, I had a very incredible author on the show. He wrote a book called The Salt Fix. This is probably the most important book in my library, Dr. James DiNicolantonio. And we spoke about the book and we talked about really about how sodium is this incredible mineral that is deficient in our diet and can lead to obviously hunger, but more importantly, to so many other issues. And he's back today to talk about his other book. He has a brand new book that just came out more recently called The Immunity Fix. The Body Fix, and it is a brilliant book. And he talks about it and what simple things we can do to really improve our immunity. And, you know, with COVID-19 hopefully coming to an end one of these days, I still feel right now, especially with winter here and so much of us here in America, we want to improve our immunity. And one of his strategies in Chapter 10, I'm a huge advocate of this, was, as you know, sometimes when we forget to eat, it's called fasting. And he talks about how this is a tool that we can utilize as well to bolster our immunity.. And that's one of the reasons I do it, even though I'm not trying to lose weight. So we're going to talk about that. And then we have a very special sneak peek for the Super Bowl issue of Woman's World magazine, where one of my clients is on the COVID So we got a lot on today's show, guys. He's on the other line. Dr. James, can you hear me?

I can. Thanks for having me, Jorge Cruise.

Oh, you bet, my friend. Thank you so much. How has been 2021 for you? I know it's been an unusual start for the world, right? It really has been.

Yeah, it's interesting though because, you know, I've been enjoying staying at home myself. I get to spend more time with the kids and the wife. So, yeah, it's going well so far.

Usually I'm in New York the whole month of January doing all the morning shows, but with COVID we're all live streaming or it's rare. Some shows are doing that, but I feel like so many people around this time of the year when it hits the middle of January or towards the end of January, they kind of like have given up. I think the surveys have said that usually 80% of people that made New Year's resolutions at the start of the year, by the middle of January have given up. So, I hope we can inspire them, ignite them, get them excited with some incredible insight. Share with them a little bit of The Salt Fix because I feel like for me, it is the key to turning off hunger. It is how Sandy lost 2 lbs. a day on the plan and it is a simple add-in that people can do. I mean, sodium, we all have it and tell them how that book came about real quick, Dr. James, because I think this book is brilliant and I don't want to forget it, please.

Sure. So, I mean, we've all sort of been taught that salt is this like toxic white poison. And the reason why I wrote the book is to really, you know, shed light that this is an essential mineral. And when it comes to how it helps regulate hunger is the fact that because it's an essential mineral, there had to be some type of signal in really in the body that if we were deficient, it would tell us to go seek out more of this substance and consume it if we were deficient. And, you know, in the book I sort of show how animals do this, and we would follow animals to salt trails, and we would consume and replenish the salt that we lost through sweat. And the signal that drives us to do that is the reward center in the brain. And so if you are deficient in salt, that reward center is hyperactivated. And so you can get more sugar cravings, more food cravings if you don't have enough salt because of that reward system being hyperactivated. So if you want to suppress that reward center and not get such a high off of sugar and all these other types of highly processed foods, right, eating an adequate amount of salt intake is your best solution to do that.

Yep. I think it's so— it's such a simple thing. And I feel like anyone watching or listening to us that thinks, what the heck, you can turn off hunger? You know, I mean, the whole— my whole mission now has become, you know, I've transitioned, I feel like, from with COVID here, you know, into someone who's become an advocate for what I call zero hunger. Sugar Water, which is basically water, 32 ounces. I'm sipping it as we speak here. This is my second one this morning, and it's early this morning. But for me, I do an extended fast on occasion where I sometimes fast up to 3 days, and I don't do it for weight loss because I'm at my goal weight. I do it for the response to the immune system, stem cells, et cetera. So I thought maybe we could talk about that in a minute, but remind everyone, because I feel like what you said, we may have to repeat it because if anyone's listening, they're thinking, "Did he just say we need salt?" And in paleolithic times or in ancient times, I think what you said is— and not to give them a history lesson, but to share a little more on that about how ancient man— and we're talking how many— I mean, this is going back thousands and thousands of years, right? Where we would follow— can you explain that a little bit about how ancient man knew how to follow the path of salt, sort of, right? And how— I think we talked about this in our first interview about how even the ancient Romans paid their soldiers and gave them a say salary, right? And in the Latin term salary, I think there's a connection to salt, right? Where you're worth your weight in salt. Is that where that comes in? And give us a tiny little history lesson, because I feel like you're the man that could give us some light on that, please. Because I think people are like, this is crazy, this is new, this is weird. And it's not. It's actually— I mean, is it ancient? It is, right?

Oh my gosh. I mean, well, our increased intake in salt actually goes back maybe 4 or 5 million years. When it started cooling off a little bit in Africa and you sort of had, instead of a lot of rainforests, more patches and savannas. And that's where essentially our ancient, ancient ancestors kind of transitioned from, right, eating more vegetation, plants to more animal foods. So, and when we consume the entire animal, you are getting all the salty blood and interstitial fluid and you don't get that nowadays. So if you drop the processed foods and you start eating whole foods, that is now deficient in the salt that we used to get through all those salty fluids.

So say that again, but take us back 2 seconds. So when— and I agree with you 100% because I, I do believe a more high-fat, high-protein diet, which is more animal-based, is what our ancestors did. But back then, obviously, they would hunt, right, and eat these animals in a way where you said that these fluids, obviously the blood, right, would be something that was very high in sodium, correct?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you just look at like a lion kill, right, their whole face is covered in blood, and that blood contains a lot of salt, about 1.5 teaspoons per liter.

Wow.

So, you know, we used to get that. And so if you start just eating plain muscle meat without salty fluids, you have to add the salt back somewhere.

Okay, well, good, because I love a ribeye, and I always add salt to it. Believe me, it tastes good, you know. And I think we all know that this. But what happened? I mean, not to jump all the way to— I think we talked last time about the invention of the refrigerator, right? And how before that we would preserve meat with salt. So that was a way to add it back in. But tell us what happened, because somehow through the Roman times we were— I mean, if we go back from millions of years to what, 3,000, 2,000 years ago with the Romans, give us a jump there, because those were still early days, early man. I mean, but we're a little more civilized. We have this beautiful empire in Italy and Rome and all that. So tell us a little bit what, people knew then salt was powerful. And then take us to modern times, maybe up until right before— I think you told me it was 1930 with the refrigeration, with the invention of that and the refrigerator— that everything changed. But take us to Rome a little bit, about ancient Rome and the word salary. Tell everyone what it means and why it was so important for, for them. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, essentially Rome would not have functioned and been the empire that it was without salt, because that's how they would keep their armies going. Um, the average Roman consumed about 25 grams, um, of salt, whereas we only—

per day, per day, per day.

Yeah, 25.

And you know, people are thinking you're— we're going to kill people with this, but this is how they won wars, right? How does that— I mean, we'll continue, please. I don't want to— I don't want to guide this, but take us back again to Rome. So 25 grams a day for these people that were active, say, you know, and conquering the, the, the the empire, shall we say, right?

Yeah. And, and essentially, uh, you know, nowadays we only consume about 8 grams of, of salt. Um, so they were consuming about 3 times the amount of salt that, that we ingest today. Many other Scandinavian countries, even, um, you know, even up through the 1500s, 1600s that were preserving most of their foods with salt were consuming upwards of sometimes 60 to 100 grams of salt per day. Because everything had to be very tightly packed in, in quite a bit of salt to preserve it. And then, as you had mentioned, with the invention of the refrigerator in the 1930s, there or thereabouts, the— there was less salt needed to preserve the food. And so this is where we sort of got now where we consume about that 8 grams of salt or about 3.5 grams of sodium per day.

So with the invention of the refrigerator, in essence, it took away the need for the salt. What happened between that then in the early '30s, right, to today where it's been vilified, where salt has become this— I mean, and I guess people thought, oh, it was only used for preservation, now we don't need it. But I think, I mean, we talked about this in that episode, I think 98 that we talked about, where, you know, there was a campaign of sorts with the sugar industry. I mean, it really, I feel this needs to be a movie. If COVID continues, you and I need to work on a film, a documentary, because I I feel like— tell us the story from your perspective. And I know it's your opinion, but it's based a bit on history and what is— it's factual. This isn't something that you made up, but something happened in our culture and our government with recommending salt versus sugar. And there's no regulated daily allowance for sugar. There is for other trace minerals. And I feel like salt has been made this thing where there's a number that is so low, right? Tell us a little bit of that, of how this happened, because somehow in the 1920s we weren't doing this. We weren't afraid of salt. I mean, we had to eat it. It was a part of— I mean, what was that life like in the 1920s? Take us to the '20s before the invention, or the early, you know, early, like 1910 or something, you know, the Titanic. I always think of that time period, you know, Victorian time period where there wasn't refrigeration, right?

There wasn't at all, right? Salt was cherished for preserving foods. Um, even in early wars, uh, most soldiers consumed around 18 grams of salt per day. So just over twice the amount of salt that we consume. It was very well known, um, at least up through World War II, that, that soldiers should have a ration that gave them 18 grams of salt per day.

So, so, and that wasn't that— what, what was their, what was their reasoning? Do you, do you know a little bit of the—

oh, I mean, performance, functioning, cognition, performance in the field, how they felt, replacing salt that would be lost through sweat. So, that was their reasoning. They had done their calculations and that was the number that they came up with.

Were they aware of the ability to— because I would think if you have a Roman Empire and these soldiers or if you have a 1920s soldier as well or anything that's going on in the world where you want to be victorious, and you have a lot of work to do, a lot of physical work to do. This isn't sitting at a desk if you're fighting a war. But were they aware that obviously— because I know for me, and I know just to jump to women's world here, uh, with the January issue that will be out in newsstands, I believe the 28th of January, for anyone that wants to read this. It won't be out till then. But, you know, this gal Sandy, uh, you know, and I love her to death, she's a 50-year-old grandmother, uh, and she got off her cholesterol medication, and she literally drinks this this recommendation that I've given her, you know, 32 ounces of water with half a teaspoon of salt. We add a little pinch of magnesium potassium sometimes and a little lemon or stevia or monk fruit or something without sugar. But she drinks that and she literally forgets to eat all day and has incredible energy, no migraines. She's off her cholesterol meds. She is at her high school weight and she's almost 60, you know, she feels phenomenal. I would think that would be very beneficial for, for, for, for people that had wars to fight as well, you know, to have all those things. And she eats one meal a day. She doesn't do it intentionally. She's not trying to fast, but she's just not hungry. And I would think that would be beneficial with, with wars and all that, to also have this energy. And, and I know, uh, the military does feed folks, you know, probably three square meals a day, but I, I'm sure during the middle of a war, you'd be happy to get one good meal. Were they aware— were people— let's start to move into the direction of hunger control just for a minute, because we're going to end up with, uh, with a topic autophagy and fasting. How does the sodium— if you could just one more time, if you don't mind, to dumb it down for everyone listening— how does it turn off the hunger and the cravings for sugar, carbs, and salty snack foods? Because I think that's what causes so many of us to be overweight. At least it did for me when I was younger. I was overweight because I was addicted to potato chips, nachos, milkshakes from McDonald's, french fries. I mean, the It just all goes on and on. It was never a steak and eggs I was addicted to. It was always carbs, sugar, Pop-Tarts. I remember Captain Crunch cereal. I loved Captain Crunch, right? Those are the things I was addicted to. And I would think, you know, if we want to regulate our hunger, share for a moment— I don't know if the people in the '20s or the Romans knew this, but obviously, I mean, we look at movies from, you know, like the— I remember that movie, was it The 100 or The 300? What was that movie with all the Spartans?

300.

The 300. I mean, these guys looked amazing, right? They had great bodies.

Yeah, they're—

everyone was in phenomenal shape, and they weren't eating all day and night, and they were— they, they had salt in their diet. So how did that regulate, or how does that help us, um, be effective and not, and not be hungry? And do you know if they, they used the salt partly for that, or was it just for the energy? And they probably didn't feel hungry either. I would think they ate often, but not every 3 hours, you know, where they were dependent on— because I imagine if you're fighting a war, to pack that much food food would be— it's a lot of— it's, it's enough to have 18— you said 18 grams of salt back in the '20s, right? I mean, that you can pack, it's small, right? But to have 3 snacks or 4 snacks, a breakfast, a lunch, a dinner, I mean, you're carrying a whole picnic basket, you know, every day. I mean, you, you would, you would run out of— I don't know if you could win a war if you're always eating, right? I mean, and I'm not hungry. I mean, I, I feel like I'm on a revolution of sorts, and I know you are, to help people's health. And I don't overeat. But do you think they were aware of that, Dr. James, or is that Was that a side effect, just not being hungry, or was that an intentional thing to maximize the potential of winning a war and not overeating? Yeah.

I mean, I don't know if they were consciously aware that salt might curb their hunger. I think they primarily knew that this substance is going to help preserve their food. It's going to improve their performance on the battlefield and that it was important for hydration. I think they did understand those things. And of course, for infections, right? Right.

Tell us, what do you mean?

Well, they would, they used to rinse their mouths. That was the natural first antiseptic antibacterial mouthwash was, was a saline solution. So for gingivitis or any type of mouth infection, salt rinses were very common back in the day. And of course, packing wounds, right, with salt was used as well. But I think to your point, you know, how does, how does salt curb hunger? And when you don't— there's numerous things and I'll go through each one. The reason is when you don't get enough salt, it again activates that reward system in the brain. So you're going to get a greater activation in dopamine from hyperpalatable foods, making them more addictive. So that's—

we're talking sugar, carbs, and salty snack foods. It's not the salt, it's the corn and the chips, right?

In fact, it's the lack of salt that actually makes those substances even more addictive. Um, and on the other side of that too is when you're not getting enough salt, uh, your body increases the fat-storing hormone insulin because that hormone also causes the kidneys to retain more salt. So if you're constantly on a low-salt diet, you will automatically have higher insulin levels. And for every calorie you consume, you are going to store more fat. Wow.

That, that no one says this. You're the only person I bet yet. Well, there are others there. There are a few of us out there, but I feel like why Why is this message missing in the culture? Why is your book so revolutionary? Because I feel like something happened. Can you tell us that thought? What happened after the '30s and '40s where the public were— I mean, it feels like it was vilified. Salt was vilified, the opposite of what you just said, right?

Right. Because, you know, an industry formed that noticed that they can make money off of a different white crystal, that being sugar. And so in the early '30s, you started seeing, you know, these candy shops, right? And you used to be able to get fountain sodas in pharmacies. And so sugar and the sugar industry started growing from there. Well, you know, all of a sudden the population health started declining as well. And so they had to have a scapegoat. They had to blame it on the other white crystal salt. And so the food industry and the sugar industry have definitely had many scientists on their payroll and it was always to shift the blame away from sugar onto fat or salt.

And so that's— this is historical. This isn't something you're guessing. They were on payroll. Right.

Oh, 100%. Yeah.

They had scientists on payroll, paid them to write even after the sugar industry, the sugar industry. Yeah.

Right.

As early as what year? When did this start? I mean, tell us a tiny bit more, whatever, you know, because I think people's mouths, they're like, what are you guys drinking? Are you guys drunk? This is not possible. Why would they do that to salt? Right. But this is historical, right? Yeah.

I think it, you know, it first started in the '50s and really started growing in the '70s. Because when you had the release of the first dietary goals in 1977, that ended up turning into the 1980 Dietary Guidelines. And I kind of go through the historical recommendations from the first 1980s Dietary Guidelines to all the way up to today.

And that's in The Salt Fix, right?

Yeah. So at first it wasn't, it wasn't necessarily like, you know, salt is so bad. It was just, they just said consume salt in moderation. And then that changed to to eat a low— as low as possible salt diet. And so it's even— it's interesting, even from the 1980s through— through up through 2015, how it sort of became more and more and more restrictive.

Wow. And obviously they had more money and more attorneys, more people on salary, shall we say, right?

Yeah.

To kind of push an agenda that— I mean, is there any— I mean, I just want to be a little fair and try to be non-biased but was there any truth to it, or is there any truth to it, or was it really manufactured? I mean, because it feels like they couldn't have completely made this up from nowhere, right? I mean, I feel like, wow, I want to cry right now. This is depressing.

Well, I think what they did was— there are people who are salt sensitive, but they never took the time to figure out why those people were salt sensitive, and the inappropriate inappropriately extrapolated that small subgroup of people who have high blood pressure and that are salt-sensitive and did a blanket statement to the general population that everyone should be on a low-salt diet. So there were two faults that happened. They inappropriately extrapolated a small group that was salt-sensitive to everybody.

And when you say salt-sensitive, as I know we talked about this in our last interview about the pairing, maybe you can mention it whenever it's appropriate, of salt with a high insulin response, which comes from sugar, carbs, and salty snack foods, doesn't come from fats and proteins, a little bit from protein, but nothing like carbohydrate. And when you pair salt with carbohydrates, and what I feel like this special group of people ate a lot of sugar and carbs, and then they tested them and said, oh, well then salt's gonna give you a, what was it, high blood pressure? Was that the big issue that they were so concerned about?

Well, I mean, they could never even prove that it caused hypertension or a chronically elevated level of high blood pressure. It was just that their blood pressure would spike about 5% or greater when going from a low to a normal salt intake, but your blood— your kidneys can flush out the salt fairly quickly. So the blood pressure would go pretty much right back down.

Hey, it's Jorge, and I just wanted to interrupt the show just for a moment to invite you to head on over and sign up for my Zero Hunger email that will give you each day a simple what to eat to get radical control over your sugar, carb, and salty snack food cravings. And if this is something you want to conquer and make a lifestyle, the newsletter is important. It will really give you tools every day to keep building that momentum to create a lifestyle where you're in control of sugar and carbs.

So if that sounds good, check it out.

Simply go to zerohungerplan.com. I'll spell it for you, it's with a Z, Z-E-R-O, Zero Hunger Plan. And it's all free. I'll see you there.

Let's get back to the show.

But as you said, the key to this group that is quote-unquote salt sensitive was the refined carbs and sugars causing insulin to elevate and causing them to over-retain salt. And if you just drop the sugar and the refined carbs, you've dropped the insulin and you fix the salt sensitive high blood pressure.

So say that for everyone listening, if you're concerned about high blood pressure, which I think in today's 2021— it's hard to believe it's 2021 world, but it is— I mean, if people think of salt, their number one issue, at least that I hear on social media and emails I get, is, oh, I don't want to get a heart attack, I don't want to have high blood pressure. Is that still— that's kind of the fear, that's the one story, the myth that seems to be the narrative that that you might as well put the X in the skull on salt because people are scared of dying from it. You know, it's the opposite of your cover here where it's medicine, you know.

Absolutely.

Is that the, is that the narrative that they're scared of, of high blood pressure? Yeah.

Oh, without question. The most, uh, comments I get is, well, what if I have high blood pressure? Well, the, well, then the key is, is to drop the refined carbs and sugar, start exercising more, and that requires and necessitates more salt. And salt's going to let you allow you to exercise more, and it's going to allow you to eat those whole foods that are more bitter, but that bring the potassium and the magnesium. So salt is the gateway to eating healthy and exercising more.

Wow. I feel like this is— I love talking to you because I feel like I always, even though I knew this already, I feel like, wow, the way you say it is so—

it's profound.

I mean, this is profound information. I think anyone listening listening to this right now is saying, wow, you know, and I feel like with your new book, The Immunity Fix, you know, there's a chapter in there that I'm obsessed with, chapter 10, for anyone that gets the book, it's a must read. It only came out a couple months ago, right? So it's fairly new. And obviously tell everyone about The Immunity Fix, because you worked on this during COVID right? This is, you rushed this, you literally did this in, I mean, I know The Salt Fix you shared with us, 500 citations, took you 3 years to do this one. Book. How did you do that book so quick? And I mean, it's got a lot of citations as well, correct?

Yeah. Yeah. We were the first, myself and another co-author, to actually publish an academic review paper on nutraceutical, essentially supplement strategies against RNA viruses, which is an RNA virus.

Is this public where we could share with people? Yeah.

Yeah. This is, this is a published academic paper. And it was—

well, if you don't mind, share me the link and we'll share it in the show notes because this would be fabulous. So it started with that, and when was this? This last year?

Just February. That was in February.

So not even a year ago, about a year ago, right?

Essentially right when COVID was exploding, we published this academic paper, was press released by Elsevier, which is, um, you know, an academic, uh, you know, publishing, you know, group. And, yeah, you know, we started also publishing on hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, right? Do these medications actually help against COVID? And then I said, well, you know what? Most people don't read academic papers, so I might as well put my research into a book. And then it ended up turning into a 2,500-reference, um, Immunity Fix.

2,500?

Yes. Yeah.

I love that you're so, uh, not just well-researched but passionate, because to find those kind of references— I mean, I mean, I know it took you 3 years for the Salt Fix. How did you— you must have just focused 14-hour days. You must have been a laser been, correct?

Yeah, I mean, essentially right through— I would say as soon as it started happening into late December in China, the research for me just, you know, didn't stop until, you know, I don't know, around May or so.

And the book is written with the co-author, uh, this handsome guy here. Tell us who your co-author is, because there you are, of course. And, and we're going to dive into this now, but you, you had a little help. The author of The Metabolic Autophagy— pronounce his name for us, right?

Yeah, and he helped with, um, some of the more of the biohacking. Um, so I mean, I had actually been doing research on sauna therapies, um, sort of heat shocking yourself. I was looking at animal studies where they would heat shock these animals before giving them lethal influenza, and it dramatically lowered mortality, um, viral replication, lung pathology. And that comes down to heat shock proteins having these antiviral, um, effects. So sure enough, I did buy a sauna during this COVID Yeah, and I have a sauna as well.

I love saunas. I do it almost every night. You recommend that as an immunity biohack, right?

Yes, yeah, absolutely.

And is that how you connected with— and say his name one more time for everyone watching.

Yep, Siim Land.

And he is in Europe, correct? This gentleman?

Yeah. And so we sort of go through, you know, the nutrient depletions in the immunity fix that increase the risk of having poor COVID outcomes or higher mortality. But then we also go into lifestyle strategies, biohacking strategies. Strategies, cold therapy, hot therapy, things like that.

Fantastic. So his specialty are the biohacks. So, I mean, I feel like, uh, you'll have to connect us, we'll have to talk to him, because I feel like this is such an important topic. And as COVID is still out there, and, you know, I just listened to NPR News this morning bright and early, I mean, it's still an issue. I know the vaccine is giving us a new light, I hope, right? You would agree there's some light there, you know, which is, is well needed. But there's so many things we can do to take control and be proactive. And I think if it's not COVID-19, it could be the flu. It could be just immunity in general. For me, you know, one of my favorite chapters, like I mentioned, is the one on intermittent fasting, because as much as I used to intentionally force myself to not eat, and it was hard, you know, it was really hard. Once, for me, you know, out of COVID came this emphasis on the podcast about hunger control, because I think after our interview and speaking to a few other people, from Paul Saladino, Dr. Saladino, to Mark Sisson, to Jason Fung, which is a good friend and co-author of one of your books as well. What book did you and Dr. Fung do?

That was The Longevity Solution.

So that is what I— that is why I do extended fasts, for longevity, for increased improvement in stem cells and immunity function. And I think one of the tricks, and just connecting it back to women's world, because I know a lot of people people listening are fans of Woman's World magazine because it's out and it's the number one publication on grocery stands, you know, in the country. It's number one. I mean, there's no— even People magazine doesn't get this kind of coverage because it's everywhere in the grocery stores. And in today's world, not everyone reads magazines. But on that cover, we know that Sandy was drinking this water, and she literally talks about— she doesn't mention the word fasting in the article, but she's not someone who does biohacking. She's a, you know, 58-year-old woman, and I think our average listener is in their midlife, to say the least. We don't a lot of 20 or 30-year-olds, but if they are listening, I think, and if they're overweight or feel like their immune is weak, I feel like this idea of forgetting to eat, otherwise known as fasting, you know, if it's effortless, is scary for people. And I think in Chapter 10, you really share some of the science that I think can bolster our motivation to know that, you know, it's almost like we're scared of salt, we're scared of fasting. You know, we've been told, oh no, no, no, you know, you can't do that. You'll pass out. I mean, I know in my study of food and all that, Harvey Kellogg, around the same time period that, you know, we talk about the Victorian time period, he created the Kellogg Corn Flake, you know, at his sanitarium. I think it was in Michigan or something like that, and created this to help people be healthy. But he created a whole industry that broke the fast, and he created the word breakfast. I think it was first quoted in Good Housekeeping in the early— in like 1910 or something like that. And, and, and then people people, he's like, "You have to eat breakfast." We all have been told breakfast is the most important meal of the day, right, Dr. James? And I feel like for my clients, a lot of them will just drink this, maybe have a little coffee, maybe with a little butter or something like that as a biohack. But a lot of times my clients will forget to eat till dinnertime and they'll eat one meal a day. We all have heard of that acronym OMAD. And tell us why that isn't something— because I feel like it's— I'm just thinking this out loud with you, but as much as sugar and carbs and salty snack foods are something want to avoid. We want to embrace salt. Why would a strategy like fasting be something that can improve our immunity? If we could start with that, I would love that, because I feel like that is one of the issues that a lot of my clients face when they consider not eating. And they're like, but is it safe if I drink your stuff? If I drink salt and I'm not hungry now, and as you've explained so beautifully how that turns off the hunger mechanism, is that safe though? And you know, they're going going to say, well, you know, I'm going to pass out. You know, I'm literally going to die, you know, if I don't— if I don't eat immediately and every 3 hours. Why is the opposite possibly true? And in Chapter 10, you call it, you know, everything from— I think you mentioned, what is the topic here? How fasting affects immunity. You mentioned the word that I love.

I'll just share with everyone here, autophagy.

So maybe could you share a little bit of what— of this? We'll start with this because it really connects to women's world, because that's how you lose 2 pounds a day, in my opinion. You fast. Which is not— you know, people like, well, I get why you lose up to 2 pounds. It's not everyone will lose 2 pounds. It's up to 2 pounds. But you sure could if you have a lot of weight. And I feel like people are going to say it's not safe. This is very provocative.

It's—

you people are dumb. This is not safe. It's not what the government tells us to do. Everyone knows we need to eat breakfast. But take us down this path. And I'm not saying it's another conspiracy, but maybe, you know, about us being— we're more capable than just, you know, being so dependent on eating every 3 hours. But talk to us about Chapter 10, please, Dr. James. I want to let you take over, please.

I mean, the average American consumes probably 6 to 7 meals per day. And so that's constantly keeping insulin levels elevated. So doing an intermittent fast, which is sort of like your novice fast, right, where you're— it's more like time-restricted eating. You're— yes, yes, consuming 6 meals a day, you're consuming maybe 2 meals per day. Yeah, whether that's skipping breakfast— for most people, it's so easy to just skip breakfast and then they consume lunch and dinner. And when you get into the more OMAD or the one meal a day fast, you start getting more into the deeper fat burning at the 18 to 20 hour mark.

And that's what I love, because that's where you can really see a drop in weight. As we say on the COVID they're 2 pounds a day. So that does happen with the— and would you call that an extended fast if you're doing OMAD, sort of?

Um, it's right on the cusp, right? Because usually it's a 23-hour fast.

I know Dr. Fung always says, you know, he, um, he likes the longer ones. And I've done 3-day fasts, uh, and I do them on a regular. Sometimes I try to do them at the start of the week, and I can tell you I feel out of control healthy. I do CrossFit, I work out, I weigh almost 200 pounds of lean muscle, and it's because I'm eating more protein, I think, you know. And I have this energy. I feel like a Roman Spartan type of, you know, type of guy here. And I'm trying to get— I'm turning 50 in March and I want for my age to look my best. And I feel like OMAD has done that. But doing even— if OMAD is the start of an extended fast, a 3-day fast, and, you know, Dr. Fung talks about that at times and he even talks about 4-day fasts. And he always seems to imply that, you know, if you've got that fat on your belly or on your sides, and if you're a heavy person, and I mean, he says you can go weeks without eating, you know, and people are like, oh my God, Jason Fung is mad. And you work with Dr. Fung, so I know his work is valid. So, so yeah, so I need to zip it here. I want, I want you to talk because I feel like this is such an important topic, fasting in general, you know, from intermittent fasting, which is what, maybe 2 meals a day. I do the 1 meal a day. Some of my clients will do the 1 meal and then on occasion do 2 to 3 day fast, you know, just to, and, and not for weight loss necessarily, because maybe jump back in where you were saying what happens when you go longer than, uh, well, that you— when you do OMAD or beyond, because things happen to the body when you don't eat beyond 24 hours, say 2 days or 3-day fast, right, Dr. James?

Right, right. So if you want to tap into what's called autophagy, where your, where your body essentially breaks down damaged, um, proteins and forms new proteins and increases the production of stem cells, that really starts to happen at 2 to 3-day fast. So in The Immunity Fix, we discuss that immune resets would, would require probably 2 to 3 days fast, but you shouldn't really do it more than every 2 to 3 months, because if you start doing prolonged fasts more frequently than that, you will start breaking down protein and muscle. So there's this balance, right? I mean, if you're a lean, muscular, active person, you don't, you shouldn't be doing extended fasts really to reset your immune With that intention, that's fine, with the immune system.

And did you mention stem cells? Talk briefly about that, because I know that's something that's kind of like new tech— or not new technology, but new science. And people know that these stem cells can create miracles in the body. You know, some people spend an extreme amount of money to get stem cells in their body. And so when we do, say, up to a 3— would you say 3-day fast is where the magic is?

2 to 3 days, yes.

2 to 3. What happens? Briefly give us a little history on that, or from your perspective. I know Jason Fung is is the expert on fasting, but I feel like you're very knowledgeable on this. You know, the chapter is very detailed. But what happens beyond weight loss? Because I know that's the start of it. We want to drop weight and be, and be aggressive with it and see some results, but the results are beyond that, correct?

Absolutely. So essentially, I mean, in regards to immunity, your stem cells are what form your immune cells. They come from the bone marrow, and the bone marrow produce your stem cells, which then eventually differentiate into your immune immune cells. And so if you're constantly eating, you're in the state of growth, whereas when you fast, you're in the state of repair. Um, and so what ends up happening is any damaged immune cells or proteins in the body, when you switch over to a prolonged fast, you go into a repair mode and you start breaking down damaged immune cells and you start forming new healthy ones. So it is truly like that immune reset.

Tell me this, in the, in the book with the, uh, the Immunity Fix, you talk about a autophagy. I know a lot of people have heard the word. I talk about it as housekeeping, but beyond the weight loss and the immunity, give an end on that, and then we can dive maybe just a few more minutes on the book and some topics. I don't know if it's sauna or things that you really are— something that you want to bring to our attention, because I think you have a great palette to paint from here. But with autophagy, what other things that I think would motivate people to understand that, that doing a fast of some sort, whether it's a 16-hour one, a 24-hour one, or even an extended one, is going to give them? Because you mentioned the stem cells, and, and I feel like for me, I'm turning 50, and I don't know why I feel older now at 50. It does feel like I got 50 more years, which is the halfway point, which is great. I mean, I'm excited for the next 50 years. Um, but is it stem cells, or what is it that you would say is the greatest outside of weight loss especially? Because we've nailed that, I feel. But that, that fasting can do for us was— I know Jason Fung would talk about this for days, but I feel like from your perspective it would be a little more, um, focused possibly because you mentioned the immunity, and it really does with COVID-19 transform our immunity. Because I feel like people— I know we talked about the bone concern, the calcium concern, but extended fasting or even a 24-hour fast or whatever we end up doing if it's 16 hours and you eat 2 meals a day or whatever people are doing that are listening. I feel like so many people have been told, and I grew up in a Latin Catholic family where if you don't eat, you weaken your immune system. It's the opposite. Just maybe start there and then give us a little, take us to the top of what is the, why the immune system works so more efficiently when we do an intermittent fast. Right. Because I feel like it's not what we're used to hearing.

Yeah. I think because nowadays we're hyper-eating, we need to start more fasting, right?

Um, hyper-eating. I love that term. Is that something that— is that your term? I love that. I'm going to give you credit for that. We'll have to make a hyper— hyper-eating, right?

Hyper-eating. Yeah. Well, essentially.

And so I define that from your perspective, because I agree. I mean, we're literally not even eating every 3 hours. It's like constantly.

Well, yeah, when we were growing up, we would only eat 3 times a day, an hour before eating 6 times a day. So that's what I meant by hyper-eating is just the frequency has gone up twofold.

I think more, I think more people with COVID you know, they're bored at home and they're popping M&M's and peanuts night and day, you know, and so hyper-eating. So go ahead.

Even our plate sizes have increased, but obviously, yes. But I think from an immunity perspective, perspective. Yes, if you consume just 100 grams of carbohydrates from sugars or refined carb source, that lowers the natural killer cells' ability to kill viruses by 5 hours. So it's, you know, they're essentially— their ability to kill goes down by 5 hours.

So say this one more time for anyone that's like, well, I missed that. What, what, what, what did you say one more time, Dr. James? This is powerful. This is like— I mean, this is the reason to do it, just in what you just said. But please, one more time.

If you would.

If you, if you consume 100 grams of carbohydrates from either sugar or refined carb source, that drops your immune system's ability to kill viruses for 5 hours.

That's incredible.

And that's not a lot of— I mean, 500 grams, I mean, 500 grams, right? 100, 100 grams. That's the equivalent of— is that— I mean, give us something that people can relate to. It's not much, right?

Snickers bars, 2 Coca-Colas, essentially.

Right, 2 glasses of orange juice, right? Does that— yeah, it's 29 grams. I mean, it's almost the same amount of sugar in a glass of fresh orange juice as there is in a Coca-Cola, right?

Bowl of cereal with milk, essentially, you know, your typical American breakfast.

100 grams of carbohydrates. Yeah, 5-hour depression in the immune system, right?

Yes.

No one, no one talks about this. No one. And then, and, and they do this and they eat every 3 hours, you know, snacks and, and all their meals. I mean, wouldn't you say the at the Standard American Diet, right? SAD. People are consuming 100 grams easily. I don't want to say with every meal, but I do feel it's with every meal, right?

Every meal, yeah.

Not just hyper meals, but hyper— high carb meals, right?

Absolutely. So I mean, the average American is consuming 400 to 500 grams of carbohydrates per day, refined carbohydrates per day.

So what does that do to the immune system? 100 grams. Grams, kills it for 5 hours. Let's add that up. How many, how many did you say on the average day?

6.

So 6 times, 6 times 5 hours, that's, you're literally, it's 30 hours your immune system's offline. And I don't even know how that, how does that happen in a 24-hour day? You literally have no immune system, right?

Right, right. Your immune system is chronically suppressed when you're constantly eating carbohydrates.

Wow. I mean, I mean, that's profound. I mean, I feel like for the sake of— for drama, say it one more time because it's like, let's let the mic drop on that because I feel like that's a big deal. Say it one last time. So you're saying when we eat carbs, 100 grams, our immune system drops for 5 hours. 5 hours. Meaning we can get anything. We could get a cold. We could get, I mean, the stuff that's out there, let alone COVID. And then if we do this ever and ever, the average American is having 400, 500, yeah, yeah, 400 to 500 grams of refined carbohydrates per day. So then that's literally your whole— that's over 20-some hours a day, almost 30 hours a day. Your immune system is— what's the best word— compromised or just depressed or lowered?

Depressed, lowered. So I mean, just eating 3 meals that contain 100 grams of refined carbohydrates, the entire day your immune system would be suppressed.

Suppressed.

And as much as people are taking vitamin C and getting their vitamin D and even their natural sunlight, I mean, that helps a little bit, right? It helps counter it. Or, or is it just something that as much as that is nice, it's still suppressed? Or how— take us into how to counter that. Now, I'm not that I want to encourage people to eat carbohydrates. I mean, we're trying to, I think, hint, hint everyone, not— don't eat carbs if you want to have a strong immune system, right? Let alone do the fasting. Right.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't eat refined carbohydrates. There are certainly good sources of carbohydrates, right? Green bananas, certain unrefined breads.

I like—

did you say green bananas?

Green bananas. Yeah. Which are essentially a more resistant starch.

They're not— they're definitely not sweet. Right. I remember my mother used to love the black, like the not just brown. She'd like them because they're so sweet. Right. They get sweeter. And I usually like avocado. And things like that. But so you're— and I know Paul Saladino has that. Have you, have you seen his work with the plant toxicity spectrum? He loves squash and things like that, very low sugar. So it's good to eat low sugar carbohydrates, obviously, right? If you're going to do that, unprocessed, right?

Like the reason why a yellow banana is so sweet compared to a green banana is because all the glucose is locked up in as resistant starch or fiber when it's a green banana. So it's much more fiber than glucose. Glucose. As it ripens, the resistant starch or fiber breaks down and releases the glucose.

Wow. I've never thought of eating— because when I go to Costco, wherever I get my bananas, I get them for my kids sometimes. And I try not to eat them because usually I always ate them back in the day when they were softer. And when they're hard, you're like, oh, they're not ripe yet. And you always make fun of a green banana because you're not ready ready for the world yet, you know, but you're actually eating them when they're green, right? Because they're healthier if you're gonna eat them that way.

Much healthier. So it's a great source of potassium, great source of B vitamins, and low calorie and extremely filling because it's a ton of fiber and low sugar when it's green, right? Exactly. Wow.

I would have never guessed that a banana, based on its timeline, is healthy, but it— the sugar— how much more sugar happens when it gets more yellow? And then obviously, like my mom, she used to have them when they were brown, you know, definitely sweet as you know what. But I mean, there's a difference. It actually changes the profile of the banana, right, as it ripens, right?

Essentially, you go from having 5 grams of fiber in a green banana to none.

Whoa.

Oh my God. Wow.

Wow.

That's okay. Wow. So, all right, so back to what you're saying. So if we eat 100 grams of carbohydrates, 5 hours loss of immunity, what happens when we do the fast and the autophagy? Because now we can bolster that, and that's a way to— I mean, if you are eating, we'll just say, for example, an OMAD meal like Sandy did on the Woman's World magazine cover, doing one meal, and you end up— sure, you have a little meat, a little carnivore, but you have some squash, maybe spaghetti squash, maybe a green banana, maybe an avocado. I don't know, you maybe, maybe you have some— my favorite here, I mean, I love David because he's on QVC— maybe some nachos. I don't know. I mean, that definitely looks like a Super Bowl party, right? But if you eat this, obviously, and then you fast though, say for 23 hours, then tell us what the autophagy does to help. I don't want to call it repair the body, but it helps, uh, does it housekeeping, right? It's, it's that type of— because I think that's the part I've explained. But from your perspective, how does that work briefly? And then let's— we'll wrap up here because I know it's getting a little late, but I appreciate this. I feel like this is, this is what we need to hear because I think people need options, you know, because not everyone's going to do what I recommend. They're not going to do what you recommend. They're going to do what they want. But I think if we can educate educate them, they'll make a better decision, right? Right.

Absolutely. So I mean, the fasting is going to prevent the more meals and the more blood sugar spikes that are hurting your immune cells for 4, 5 hours, right? So eliminating those glucose bombs is really going to eliminate those bombs on your immune system that are damaging them and then really glycating proteins, glycating your, your red blood cells so you can't oxygenate your body as well. And of course, immunity comes down to the health of your your own cells as well. And really the key with autophagy is the cleaning up of damaged or old immune cells and replacing them with more functioning immune cells. That's essentially the benefits.

So if we had a Super Bowl party, you know, at the end of the month here in February, and we have nachos and we eat a lot of them, say we get our 100 grams of carbs, maybe a few extra, and then the next day, or we just have that one big party meal or whatever, we enjoy a, not necessarily the perfect meal, but we have a high-carb meal and then we fast for 23 hours. In that time, the body has time, and if we extend it even better, possibly, just so we're cautious of the minerals, we're trying to balance out any acid in the body, right? To balance that out. Can we really, in essence, I mean, for people that want to do that on occasion, maybe have a cheat meal, shall we say, once a week, and I'm not saying it's Domino's pizza and nachos, You know, some people do that. I haven't had a Domino's pizza since college, probably, but I feel like if they wanted to, in essence, they could do that. It doesn't have to be just a carnivore diet, as healthy as that— that would be healthier. But the autophagy allows that reset, and, and the immune system comes back. Is there a way to gauge it? If the, if, if the carbohydrates, 100 grams, drops it for 5 hours, what does the autophagy do to the immune system? Does it give it Is there some way to quantify it maybe in the sense of a result that people can have like a shield around them or they feel like an extra layer of rather than suppression of, of, of strength maybe of some sort, right? Yeah.

It'll bring you back to baseline. It'll bring you back to the health of your immune system prior to that glucose load.

Yeah.

Does it give you an edge as well if you go longer in the sense of the extended fasting where it can give you— I don't want to call it like superpowers, but like a super immunity? Does that— I mean, in chapter 10, I know you talk about the autophagy, but can it go to that level sometimes where the stem cells are improved? Because stem cells tend to— I mean, for anyone that's out there and has heard of this, it seems to be like a miracle sometimes when people are near the very end of life, they go to Mexico and they get stem cells. You've heard of these people, right? I mean, celebrities have done this. And why did people do that? And how does autophagy help that? Because I feel like that, that's like a ma— that, that could be, that's almost magic, it seems, but it's not because it's, it's, it's biology, right? Yeah.

You're switching over from growth to resilience and protection and the cancer studies that really the chemotherapy studies are very clear on this, that if people who have cancer, which they're already in a state of, um, you know, low muscle and low protein, but if they fast 2 to 3 days before chemotherapy that dramatically reduces the side effects and improves outcomes because your healthy cells are not— you're in a more of this repair mode. So your antioxidant defenses are up. So the chemotherapy isn't as damaging. Your cells aren't turning over as quickly. And so that has been— there's been many studies to show that, that, and that's why we think the autophagy really comes and kicks in at that 2 to 3 day mark from based on those studies.

Tell them where they can reach you on, on the internet and on social media, please, if you don't mind.

Yeah, my website is drjamesdinic.com, and my social media, Instagram, Twitter, is @drjamesdinic.

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