#118 - Dr James DiNicolantonio: The Powerful Health Secrets of Minerals

What if I told you counting calories didn't work? What if you already knew that? What if you also knew that going to the gym doesn't work? That not only does fitness begin in the kitchen, but it's not even what you eat as much as what minerals you take in. What if I told you that minerals— sodium, for example, magnesium, or potassium— are the most incredible and most important thing you could ingest That would change your health for the better, the fastest, the quickest, that would allow you to lose up to 2 pounds each day by turning off your hunger, by giving you what I call zero hunger. Well, on today's show, we're gonna sit down with the man who changed my life. His name is Dr. James DiNicolai Antonio. He's the author of one of the most pivotal books in my career called The Salt Fix, and he has written a brand new book called The Mineral Fix, where he goes in deeper and talks about how critical and vital minerals are to our health. You're going to discover again why salt is so important, how magnesium will change your life, and how potassium and so many other minerals are critical and essential to your optimal health, life, and life extension. All that on today's show, guys. Let's get started right now. Hi, my name is Jorge Cruise, and I'm the number one New York Times bestselling author and leading fitness nutrition, and peak performance trainer to the world's busiest celebrities. You may have seen my work with Oprah Winfrey, Khloé Kardashian, Tyra Banks, Kelly Clarkson, or even Dr. Oz. My career started because in my early 20s I was out of control and addicted to sweets, carbs, and salty snacks, and experts told me to simply count calories to get control. They were wrong. My passion to get control of my hunger led me to find simple ways backed by science that would turn off physical hunger as well as my emotional eating instantly. And I know I can help you too. Welcome to the Jorge Cruise Show.

Happy Sunday night.

It is March 14th. I'm Jorge and welcome to the Jorge Cruise Show. This is the number one podcast to help you get radical control over sugar, and carbs and salty snack foods. And I always tell all my listeners, and I'm sure you know this by now, but it's not the salt that's the problem. It's the snack food, it's the carbs, it's the potato chips, it's the corn chips.

And on today's show, we're gonna be talking about the salt though.

No pun intended, but salt is worth its weight in gold, guys. And no one knows that better than my guest today, Dr. James DiNicolantonio. As I've said, he is truly probably the most important person in my life. He probably doesn't even know this. I mean, I've said it, I think, but that has changed the course of what I do now in weight loss. Because I used to tell people to count calories. I used to tell people to eat high volume, high fiber, low calorie. Uh, we— I've done it all. I've been doing this for 20 years, guys. I've written over 30 books, 12 of them on the New York Times, 12 million books in print. It's been an incredible 20 years, you know, and it's my 20-year anniversary. But nothing gets me more excited than what we're about to talk to today, because the topic is everything. It's given me a sense of freedom when it comes to my health. And I can tell you, for someone who used to overeat sugar, carbs, and potato chips and popcorn and everything, and being that it's the Grammys, I'd sit down, eat a big old thing of popcorn because it was low calorie. I'd throw butter on it because that's good for you, and I'd avoid salt. Back in the day. Now it's all about the salt, minus the popcorn, although once in a while it's okay.

So today we're going to be talking to Dr.

James, and he's going to talk to us about why this is so important, guys. So I'm so excited to have you on the show.

Now before we get started, I have to thank our sponsors.

So very special thank you to Elemental Labs. And please, guys, support these folks. Check out these websites. Elemental Labs is how I make Zero Hunger Water, which is rich in sodium, magnesium, potassium. It is literally, the work of, of a man that I respect highly. Uh, his name is Rob Wolf. He's also friends with Dr. James D. Nicolantonio, and they're giving us a $45 value for free. It's a free box of electrolytes. If you go to their website and sign up at the bottom of the link to a value bundle, you get the fourth box for free and you can customize it. Check out this URL. It's drink element.com/jorge. I'll spell the URL for you. It's D-R-I-N-K. Lmnt.com/jorge. That's J-O-R-G-E. Uh, check it out, guys. You get a free box of electrolytes. These are delicious. We're also brought to you by Julian Bakery. Julian Bakery is where I eat brownies and cupcakes and cookies and bread. They have bread, uh, chocolate bars as well. It's like the Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory, but without the sugar. Sweet without the sugars, I like to say. And they're giving all our listeners 10% off. Simply go to their website, it's julianbakery.com. That's J-U-L-I-A-N-B-A-K-E-R-Y.com. And then the coupon code at checkout is Jorge Cruise, J-O-R-G-E-C-R-U-I-S-E. And that's for 10% off for our listeners, exclusive to us guys. And finally, we're brought to you by Zero Hunger Plan. That's my website, and that's where I coach my clients. And I hope someday you may join me and become a client and allow me the ability to serve you and give you tools to drop 2 pounds each day. And it's also where you can sign up for a free coaching session with me. It's where you can sign up for our Zero Hunger newsletter. Um, the links to the podcast are there as well. So check out zerohungerplan.com, and that's with a Z, Z-E-R-O, zerohungerplan.com, and get your free coaching session with me and start dropping 2 pounds each day. So with that said, guys, I'm super excited to start the show and have Dr. James DiNicolai Antonio. Share with you his latest book.

Let's get started right now. Well, welcome to a very, very special podcast. We've had this man on the show a few times. He is probably, in my opinion, probably the smartest people out there that understand the body He's a doctor of pharmacy. He is the author of one of my favorite books of all time, The Salt Fix. He has a brand new book that we're going to be talking about today called The Mineral Fix. And he really has given me, I think, an insight into why we do what we do when it comes to hunger, when it comes to cravings like sugar, carbs and salty snack foods. And as we know, it's not the salt that's bad for us. It's the potato chips. It's the corn chips that can be overwhelming.

We're drawn to these. These carbs.

And so he's here today with me, uh, Dr. James DiNicolantonio. Dr. James, are you there? Please say hi.

Yeah, I'm excited to be back.

Hey buddy, good to see you. Thank you so much for, for making this happen. This new book, uh, The Mineral Fix, tell them when this came out. It's literally just out this week, right?

Yeah, came out a couple days ago. Uh, it's something that I had worked on for, for years in the past based on some of my publications on magnesium and copper and importance of other minerals. So it's a lot of science packed into one book.

It's a big book. It's 500+ pages. I don't want to say 600 pages, but it is an incredible manuscript, if you would, like a textbook of really understanding minerals. And I think you have become, in the world, I don't even want to say in the US, but really one of the top experts understanding this from a biochemical perspective.

And it's opened my eyes so much.

And I feel like Your work has helped people even that, you know, that I work with a lot, like Robb Wolf. You know Robb Wolf and how much he believes in sodium, for example. And you know that I have been sharing with a lot of my followers and a lot of my clients Zero Hunger Plan. It was recently in Woman's World magazine, and you were kind enough to add some of your thoughts to that. And so thank you for that. And I thought maybe we could start with this premise that comes from your first book, but it's mentioned in the new book book as well, of how we can get radical control of sugar and carbs. Because my clients know, and they all agree, and, and really, you know, we want to control our appetite and people want to control their, their, their need to overeat. And when you think about it, and I think everyone listening agrees that when we overeat, it's never— we're never overeating butter or eggs or meats or protein and fats. It's always that one macronutrient that we're addicted to because it feels good to eat. Carbs, sugar. And I feel like you, you wrote something recently that you shared with me. I think it was in Vice, but you've, you know, you've written The Salt Fix, so you've done it all. You've written pop culture stuff and you've written the book itself. But could you start with explaining to everyone listening kind of like a recap of how, in your opinion, and I think it's true, how sugar, even though it's not classified as a narcotic or as a drug, has in the brain a similar effect like hard drugs, like heroin, cocaine. I mean, I'll let you kind of take, take take it from here, because I feel like your work is so powerful, and how sodium, one of my favorite minerals, right? And that's kind of why you wrote The Salt Fix. Uh, and so maybe from that perspective, why salt was such the missing mineral in our, in our world when you wrote that book. How many years ago, uh, Dr. James? Probably about 4 years ago. So just 4 years ago. I mean, you write a lot of great books, but I feel like that one set you on the map as the salt guy, right? And so maybe start with why salt is so powerful at helping us get control over sugar and carbs, because everyone listening right now in some way or another has a sweet tooth. And I think, you know, I always tell people it's not our fault because it does feel good. It does work like, like a drug, like a narcotic, like heroin or cocaine and these other drugs. But maybe take us there for a minute about how sugar can be, in your mind, can be connected to hard drugs and how sodium, whether it's sugar or a hard drug, you know, whether it's heroin or cocaine, how sodium can help us kind of set ourselves free from that? Is, is that something you can, you could start with, please?

Sure. Yeah, absolutely.

Right.

So essentially, I mean, if you, even if you take a look at alcohol, right, some people can drink alcohol and they're totally fine, and then other people can become an alcoholic, right? And so it just depends on the person. And this, and we see a very similar pattern with sugar. Some people that eat sugar become sugarholics, other people not so much. So it definitely depends on the person, but essentially how sugar is refined from a plant is very similar to opium, very similar to cocaine. It's actually basically the same, right? You take the plant and you refine it to a white crystalline powder, right? Same thing like cocaine. And when you do that, when you extract a single ingredient from a plant and highly refine it and put it into a crystalline form, now that, that substance can cause this dramatic spike in dopamine in the brain. Which leads to dopamine crashes. And it's during those troughs that your brain sort of has this addictive, I need to consume this again to get the same type of higher reward. Now, a very similar thing happens when you are deficient in salt. Your, your reward center becomes hyperactivated, and that actually would have kept us alive because how would we know we were deficient in salt unless our brain was hyperactivated to get it. Meaning if you got it in the diet, your brain would light up greater if you were deficient in it to tell you to keep consuming this mineral that you were deficient in, or salt. So if you're deficient in salt, you have this hyperactive reward center in the brain now that if you start throwing things like sugar at it, it's even more addictive. Wow.

So from your research, and especially from your first book, The Salt Fix, I feel like you would say if someone wants to control— and I don't think we have a lot of listeners that are using hard narcotics, but this idea that sugar is a drug is 100%, in the sense of the brain, accurate, right? It acts just like it.

Check. Right?

And if they want to get control over that so they can say no to the candies, the cookies, the M&M's, the pizza, the nachos, the list goes on and on, the pasta, all the things that we love. And I grew up in a Latin family like you, I think. And, you know, I was more beans and rice and Mexican food and you're more Italian. But as much as that's comfort food, it can— it tends to be the thing we overeat the most and causes insulin to go up and causes us to gain weight and can cause, when paired with salt, right, it can cause our blood pressure to go up. So going on a low-carb diet, I think, has been instrumental for a lot of my clients and myself. So if people want to be able to do that and stay low-carb, low-sugar, can you take one more minute and share with us how a drink with sodium in it, kind of like what we— what Woman's World talked about in the Zero Hunger Water world, right, was able to create like this— I mean, how would you describe it? It really gives you a sense of control, right, over the ability to say no to sugar and carbs, right?

Does both from a brain perspective and a physiological perspective. Well, essentially, when you're not getting enough salt, um, your brain again is hyperactivated. You're getting more of a reward from these refined carbohydrates. But when you're on a low-carb diet, you're spilling more salt in the urine. You need more salt. And so that's where a lot of people struggle too with keto diets, even after the first couple weeks. Is they crave more salt. And sometimes that crosses over and they think that craving is actually for sugar. So it's getting, getting those signals correct and not crossing them.

Wow.

And then, I mean, I know the results when you can eat a diet that's lower in carbs and sugar. I mean, your health improves so much. And then for people out there, just to, to start with this, because I know people, you know, have written me because of our interviews that we've done about salt, their number one concern is like, oh, My doctor said I can't have salt because my blood pressure. So take 1 minute and then let's dive into the new book, but another minute on how that is a misunderstanding and how at times it can raise blood pressure, sodium, but only when you're having a high carbohydrate diet, right? When there's insulin present. Talk a little bit on that because I think a lot of people have just taken the idea that sodium is dangerous, you know, and it's going to kill me. And so like, I'm not going to drink salt water. That's crazy. Like, that's going to kill me. Tell us, clarify this misunderstanding of, of how that happens, because it only happens when we do high carbs, right?

Right, exactly. I mean, so we need a blood pressure to live. Blood pressure is important. A lot of people suffer from what's called orthostatic hypotension, or low blood pressure, and they notice that that instantly improves if they increase their salt intake. And so we need salt. It's the people that are over-retaining And why are they over-retaining? Because the kidneys can get rid of a ton of salt. If you overeat it, the kidneys will just dump it. So what's causing you to over-retain the salt? So don't focus on the quantity of salt itself. Focus on things like low potassium is probably the number one contributor to why people are over-retaining salt and insulin resistance from over-consuming refined carbohydrates and sugar. You fix those two things as well as magnesium deficiency. And you're going to eliminate at least 90% of salt-sensitive people.

So if someone is listening right now, they're like, what? Like, you're saying if I cut down basically carbs and eat a low-carb diet, right, and add some magnesium, potassium to my sodium— which everyone knows about Zero Hunger Water, that's basically the 3 minerals that are in there. Robb Wolf knows this too. Obviously we all know this, uh, that's why we love Elemental Labs and all that, um, that literally you don't have to worry about blood pressure, because I feel like you're the only person that I trust that would say this. And yet no one else at your level, I think, is saying this enough. I mean, that's why I think that book was such a pivotal book, The Salt Fix, because you kind of basically said it on the COVID of the book, why the experts got it wrong. And I feel like— just take us on that journey in your mind, because I feel like everyone listening if they're going to listen to the Mineral Fix, they got to understand that sodium— and what you're saying there with magnesium, potassium— is important and will not harm you. It will only harm you when you, when you add the carbs in. I mean, and, and that seems so— like, no one talks about the, that pairing and how it's, it's the carbs with the salt that raises blood pressure, right?

Right.

But if you don't pair the carbs, then the blood pressure doesn't stay high, it just stays optimal, right? And you feel like you have energy, you have control over the carbs. I, I mean, I I, you know, I do OMAD. I do one meal a day, and I feel great all day. I have high energy. I don't feel dizzy, you know. And, um, but I feel like a lot of people— like what you just said, if you can say it one more time and say it maybe in a way that people can understand that it's safe, that the sodium is not the villain, right?

Right. Salt, which is sodium and chloride, is an essential mineral. And if you're healthy and you don't have these these 3 contributing factors that are causing you to over-retain salt, your kidneys will get rid of anything they don't need, but they can't manufacture salt. So it's much safer to get a little bit more than you need versus less than you need.

Yeah.

I remember in one of our podcasts, remember you told me about the invention of the refrigerator in the 1930s?

Yeah.

And could you share that story briefly? And then let's get into the new book because our diet before the 1930s, tell people how much salt we used to get, right?

Yeah, I mean, for the last 10,000 years prior to the invention of the refrigerator, we had to use a tremendous amount of salt, uh, to actually preserve the food. Um, and it takes a lot of salt to do that. So the average intakes throughout Europe in the 1600s, uh, 1500s as well, was probably up to upwards of 100 grams of salt, anywhere from usually 50 to 100. And then in the Roman Empire, um, it was about 25 to 30 grams of salt, which is about That's about 4 times a normal salt intake. So it was never a problem then for those individuals. And then what ended up happening is we discovered the refrigerator in the 1930s, essentially, and we didn't need to pack our food with a lot of salt. So essentially our salt intake went down. Wow.

And in today's world, just to give people a reality check, our government in the US and outside of the country, I don't know if you know all the rules, but the amount of suggested added salt, where is that? Because it's down low. It's like down here.

They tell us to consume is only 6 grams. That's the most apparently we're allowed to have. But you can, you can lose that amount in just 1 hour of exercise through sweat in the heat. So there's, there's a huge amount of nuance to that statement. You can't just give general blank statements on eat less than X amount.

And remind us who's saying this. This is the American Heart Association.

Who's the American Heart Association? Yeah, they've always for the longest time been the most restrictive, saying essentially less than a half a teaspoon of salt per day. Um, and again, that's because it's on top of a population that's insulin resistant, that doesn't eat potassium, doesn't eat magnesium. What happens when you give a high amount of salt, not even a normal amount, let's actually give people twice the amount of salt compared to what we consume in the United States. And I sent you that study. It was a Japanese study. They had essential high blood pressure., and they were consuming twice a normal salt intake. If they just increased the potassium from 3 to 7 grams, their blood pressure normalized. And that's really one of the best papers in The Salt Fix that kind of shows it's really the low potassium that's the issue. Wow.

All right, we'll include that in the show notes. We'll, we'll definitely include all those studies because I feel like your books have citations. I mean, just The Salt Fix in itself had over 300, is that right?

Yeah, over 500.

Over 500. And the new Mineral Fix, I mean, has like almost 5,000. I mean, talk about research. So let's get into the Mineral Fix because I feel like— tell us the background on this book because you wrote this from what you just said earlier, uh, not, not recently. I mean, you started it. How about that? You started it when? And how is this different than the Salt Fix? And who needs this book? Because I feel like it's a textbook that is at a college level. So it's— the Salt Fix was more for I mean, I got it easy. This one I had to read carefully, and it's long. But tell us how you look at this book as a tool versus your other books, and especially The Salt Fix.

Right. So this— The Mineral Fix is, is set out a little bit differently in regards to every chapter is basically broken down into which mineral that you need. And so it covers 17 essential minerals and 5 possibly essential minerals that haven't been classified yet as essential, like chromium, but are still important for the diet. Uh, and so each chapter gives you food sources, highest food sources for that mineral. It goes into every enzyme that that mineral is important for. It gives you a chart on the optimal intake, not just the RDA, which is just to prevent deficiency, but really this book is about what's the optimal amount of minerals that we should be consuming. And you know, besides that, it also goes into how our food is so depleted in minerals for just from the last 80 years. And so that causes overeating as well. Because we're eating this diluted food. Yeah.

And I feel like with the world changing so much with, you know, this almost debate that's occurring, whether it's Bill Gates telling people to not eat meats and eat synthetic meat. I had Dave Asprey on the show recently and we talked about how, in his opinion, Dave Asprey's opinion, that isn't right. We need animal protein and there's a way to do it where the earth is, is, uh, put it, you know, put as a priority where you do regenerative, uh, agriculture where it's good for the earth, it's good for the plants, it's good It's good for the animals and all that. Would you share with us briefly why a plant source versus meat source? Like if we were to look at these minerals that you talk about in the book, and obviously I want everyone to pick this up, is I feel like it's a resource that is so important. It's almost like an encyclopedia book that has, like you said, all the minerals. Maybe walk us through, I mean, obviously I still believe salt, magnesium, potassium are the trinity, the first 3 that are probably the most important, would you say? Could you start with those 3 and recap on those and then get into, you know, let's not do all of them, but the ones that, that I think that, that you think especially people midlife need to embrace. And then let's talk about some sources because I know there's a lot of plant-based sources, there's meat-based sources, and then there's, there's water sources. And, and I love, like, you, there's some simple options out there because I feel like, you know, I don't want, I don't want to scare people where they have to go buy 17 vitamins and minerals and pop, like, you know, and spend a fortune, $400 or $500 a month on vitamins. And a lot clients are keto and a lot of them are following more of a meat-based diet. So I don't want them to feel like they have to buy a ton of plants too. But I think you've got some great solutions that simplify it all for us. But take us through some of the top minerals in the book. And if you were to say the top 3, would you say that the salt, magnesium, potassium— I don't know if you call it the Trinity— are those the, the 3, uh, base to build upon possibly?

Yeah, absolutely. And calcium too. And especially So if we're looking at an animal-based diet, which I follow, typically you're, you're going to be a little bit low on the magnesium, the calcium, potentially the potassium. So if you can find waters or powders to add to your water that meets and ups boost those minerals, that's going to not only help you handle your salt intake, but it's going to help every organ in the body. And magnesium is so important because there's so many different things that cause us to lose magnesium. You have to have good stomach acid to digest it and absorb it. It. You have to have good insulin sensitivity so you can drive it into the cell and so you're not losing it. And a lot of our foods, both animal and plant foods, are somewhat depleted in magnesium compared to before. So we had discussed what, well, what water would be good for magnesium and calcium and things like that. And that would— Gerolsteiner is one. San Pellegrino has good amounts of calcium and magnesium in it. And both of them have, well, particularly Gerolsteiner brings back some of the bicarbonate, which is even another advantage for animal-based.

And if there was a water brand that you love, that is the one. I think you've talked about it before on the other podcast. You happen to have some there to show everyone who's watching on the YouTube?

Yeah, this is it right here.

Yeah, check them out, guys. And tell us about this water. Where is it made? Why, why do you have it? I mean, obviously you love this water.

Yeah, well, it's, it's sourced from Germany. It's actually about 500 feet below the ground, and so the water passes through all the natural mineral rocks and it picks up the, um, the magnesium and the calcium through that flow. And so you're not getting also the environmental pollutants because it's so far down in the ground. And, uh, there is, there is this importance of balancing acid-base in the body. A lot of people get confused about this. They think that your diet doesn't contribute to the pH because your blood pH maintains the same, but the, the tissues can become acidic if you don't get some source of base. So, uh, natural mineral waters are typically a good source of base. To add to an animal-based diet.

That's great. So, I mean, how far would you take the Gerolsteiner, right? That's what it's called. Gerolsteiner water. Can it be, I mean, I'm not saying it's the magic multivitamin or multi-mineral, cuz we're talking minerals are not vitamins, but can you get almost all the minerals you need from, from, from that water?

Possibly if you're eating nose to tail, adding this is going to hit most of what you could be missing.

Wow.

I mean, that simplifies it. I mean, that's German water for you. Right? I mean, that's, it's incredible that it has that. And out of— and then you mentioned Pellegrino. How was that one compared? Not the same, is that— that's Italian, right?

Right. It's not 100% the same. So Pellegrino has less magnesium, about the same calcium, um, and it has a little more sulfur in it. So it's not the exact same, but it's, it's a good way to get extra calcium and some. Okay.

Now if someone, uh, is unable to find the Gerald Steiner water, uh, is there a way— because, you know, we, we kind of created the Zero Hunger, uh, recipe with the half a teaspoon of salt and a small amount of magnesium, potassium, um, and I think it's a good mix of the three. If they wanted to add a few more, uh, minerals to that in a powder form, are there some brands of that, or maybe even a multi-mineral, or maybe if it's not a multi-mineral, some other brand names that you would recommend as sources where people can purchase online, or, you know, or get it at Whole Foods or different stores like that?

Yeah, I mean, there are whole food sources of multivitamins. I know you and I discussed NutraGold is one of them. Um, it's always—

that is a brand, correct? NutraGold. Tell us why you like that brand, for what reason, and what minerals do they offer, and, and which one would you suggest if someone's Googling this?

Right, well, that— it's one of the only, um, companies that actually has— it's a food-based, uh, multivitamin. So it's not synthetic vitamins and minerals. It's essentially you allow the plants to take up the minerals and vitamins and you get it from the plant. Um, Dr. Mercola has something similar. He has a B complex from quinoa sprouts. So if you can source from these sort of like whole food, uh, multivitamins, it's going to be better than your typical synthetic. Wow.

Give us the brand one more time. The gold—

NutraGold.

NutraGold.

So NutraGold. And is there one in particular? Is it like a multi-mineral that just has it all in one?

Yeah, it has a women's multi and they have a men's multi.

And do you think there is a big difference between those two? It could help, I mean, more for women. Are there minerals for women, minerals for men? Because we should talk about that. I mean, since we're talking about that book, but with those brands, you would, you would lean into the men's version, women's version, or is that made up or not?

Right. Well, typically, uh, women, if they haven't gone through menopause, do need a lot more iron because of men's So typically that's your biggest difference between a multi with— for a woman versus a man.

And so higher— it's a higher—

typically women need about 18 milligrams of iron per day, whereas men only need about 8.

Okay.

All right.

So there's that difference there. Simple difference.

But—

and so NutraGold is the brand. Get the woman's version, ladies, because it's going to have more iron. And men don't— I mean, we don't need as much iron. And that too much iron in a man's body, can that hurt us, or Right.

Yeah. I mean, it could hurt anyone, a man or a woman. But like you said, it's— we don't dump iron like women do once a month.

So yes, yes, that's the whole— that's the cycle of life, obviously. Well, so this is incredible. So take us through a little bit of the minerals that, uh, and so the main mineral is, is iron. Obviously, if you're a woman, you need to consume a little bit more of. But if we use this brand, the NutraGold, or the water, um, do we What are some of the effects? And I, and I feel like I know there's certain issues that my clients have with, uh, energy, thyroid issues, uh, hypertension concerns. How do these minerals give us— was, I think your book, the, the COVID says a lot. It says how to optimize your mineral intake for energy, longevity, immunity, sleep, uh, and more. And I feel like that covers a lot, uh, from a perspective of women that are listening right now. What are, outside of Is there any other minerals for women and energy, longevity, immunity, sleep that you would suggest? And, and, or is it about the same outside of just iron for men and women? What would you say?

Yeah, well, magnesium is huge for energy, uh, because energy in the body, we all think of it as ATP. Yeah. Really what, what energy is, is magnesium has to dock onto ATP first, and that's how it can actually release the terminal phosphate bond and release the energy. So ATP floating around actually isn't energy at all until magnesium docks on it, clips the terminal phosphate, and releases the energy. So you can't, you can't activate energy, you can't even make ATP without magnesium.

So you gotta have magnesium for both men and women, and that's the same amount for both sexes, right? There's no difference there.

Typically men is a little bit higher. I think the RDA for an adult woman is 400 and an adult man is 420, so just 20 milligrams more.

Hey, it's Jorge, and I just wanted to interrupt the show just for a moment to invite you to head on on over and sign up for my Zero Hunger email. That'll give you each day a simple what to eat to get radical control over your sugar, carb, and salty snack food cravings. And if this is something you want to conquer and make a lifestyle, the newsletter is important. It will really give you tools every day to keep building that momentum to create a lifestyle where you're in control of sugar and carbs.

So if that sounds good, check it out.

Simply go to zerohungerplan.com. I'll spell it for you, it's with a Z, Z-E-R-O, zerohungerplan.com, and it's all free. I'll see you there.

Let's get back to the show. Typically, do you feel these RDAs— because when it comes to salt, we don't listen to the RDAs because they are incredibly too low, correct? I feel like in the book, is there a section where you give them the Dr. James RDAs versus the government's? Because I feel like to look at the government's, I feel like you're going to probably correct all of it. I mean, or do they have these other minerals down? What do you think?

For, for most of the minerals, the RDAs are too low in regards to the Dr. James optimal intake. And you're right, I do have these— every chapter has graphs in regards to here's what the RDA says, here's what we think the optimal intake should And for almost all the minerals, the RDAs are too low. So for magnesium, we say anywhere from 400 to 600. So the, the lower end of our optimal is their essentially top end of, of their RDA that you're okay. And really it's, it's probably the not necessarily the best. They got it somewhat okay for magnesium, but for others they're way off base.

I love that.

Uh, so we've talked magnesium, we've talked sodium. Sodium. You talked about potassium, uh, and I think that's one that we talk about in Zero Hunger Water. Tell us about potassium and how it can help us with our energy, longevity, immunity, everything, including our appetite control, because I feel like those are the trinity in my mind. And then maybe some other ones that we haven't talked about that obviously are important for other things, maybe whether it's immunity or sleep. And I know you talk in the book about COVID-19, so I think when we get to immunity, uh, you know,— very timely topic is still immunity function and how that can be helped. But could you— we've talked sodium, we've talked magnesium, right? Tell us about potassium a little bit.

Sure. So potassium is sort of like the regulator of salt. If you want to be able to handle a normal amount of salt, you don't want to be deficient in potassium. It doesn't take a big deficiency for you to start over-retaining salt if you're not getting enough potassium. Potassium. So you really want to be getting at least 3.5 grams of potassium per day, but ideally and optimally, we want to anywhere from 4 to 6 grams per day.

Okay. And, and, you know, I always used to think that bananas were the only source of potassium. My mom, uh, grew up, uh, in South America and, and was tropical in Colombia, and she'd have bananas all the time. And as much as I like bananas, I hate to think that bananas have almost, depending on, uh, how, how, uh, you know, ripe they are. And I know we've talked about green bananas, right? And I've had a lot of people email me like, I'm not gonna eat a green banana. That's like too— because they're not sweet. I mean, they're not, they're sour. So most people buy the yellow bananas and then, you know, and then when they get a little too brown, my mom used to love them brown because they get sweeter, right? When they get darker. What would you say is another source outside of plant-based bananas? Because obviously, can we get those three? Because I don't know if we talked about this. I think we may have before we started our talk. But can we get the magnesium, the potassium, and the sodium from a carnivore type of meat-based diet? Is that in there? And what are some other sources and ways to get that nutrient, that mineral that a lot of times you always think of potassium, bananas, you think of other sources like that. But if we're trying to avoid a high sugar intake, bananas have that, unfortunately, especially the ones that most people eat. They don't eat the green ones.

True, very true. No, um, meat, uh, and especially fish are good sources of potassium, no doubt. I mean, there are other plant sources of potassium like, uh, under or lightly cooked potatoes. Um, avocados are good sources of potassium. Carrots are a good source of potassium. Um, and spinach too. Spinach is a great— and here's, here's what's interesting for, um, I think a key takeaway for a lot of women is that spinach is a good source of potassium or magnesium, but it's not a good source for iron. So a lot of women, they see the package of spinach very high in iron, but its bioavailability is only 2%, whereas in meat it's 20%, it's 10 times higher.

Yeah, no, the differences. And you know, we've had Paul Saladino on the show and he has this plant toxicity spectrum that I think you're somewhat familiar with. And you know, he limits certain plants and I've adopted some of his principles to some degree. My clients do seem to feel better when they limit their plants to more like squash, avocados, berries. He kind of leans us out of the, of the ones that have more of these toxins, as he says. If there— if we were to lean into the lower toxic ones, I would say avocados are great. Is avocado— as much as I don't think of it like a banana, it's as rich as, say, something like a banana. But meat is better, is actually better than even an avocado in the sense of its content.

For those, I would say it's comparable. I would say it's comparable. Okay. Yeah, avocado is a great source of potassium.

I love that.

And for the people out there thinking, all right, meat, like, all right, Jorge, you know, I talk about it a lot. You eat a lot of meat. I mean, you do. And as much as you're Italian, and I'm, uh, you know, I was born in Mexico City and I love my beans and rice, I try to minimize that. And I love potatoes on occasion. I don't sit and eat just, you know, a lot of french fries. That was my weakness when I was younger, and potato chips. Of course, but with more of a meat-based diet, how can we acquire these minerals? I mean, I feel like you shared at one point, I think in a past podcast, the idea of ancient man, right? And kind of following— I think you called it the salt trail, or what was it called? The salt path?

Yes.

Yeah.

We used to follow animals, their animal trails to their salt licks to obtain salt. And, you know, I do— you don't have to follow what I do, but essentially for me, yeah, I'd like to add a few sources of additional potassium and magnesium to my animal-based diet. So essentially I do eat about 1.5 pounds of meat per day.

Yeah.

And some of that is coming from liver and heart as a blend. So most people don't like to consume liver or heart directly, and neither do I. So you can buy them as blends where there's 75% ground meat, 25% liver, heart, and that way you don't really taste it.

So it's ground beef, kind of, but it's ground up— give us the organs you eat again, because I think this is really practical. Yeah, so it's— or which organs again? Give us the, the layout of the, the way you ground up this meat. It's organ meat again?

Yeah, you can just essentially order this from online. There's many places that offer it— White Oaks Pasture, North Star Bison, um, Force of Nature Meats. And essentially it's It's a ground meat and it's 75% muscle meat, 25% split in half of liver and heart.

So that is really a perfect— I mean, if we're talking about sources of minerals, that— how much of what we need is in just what you just said?

Quite a bit, right?

It's like the water, a shortcut. With what you just said, that—

sorry, um, that's okay.

Oh, did we lose you for a sec?

You still there?

Yeah, no, yeah, we dropped for a second. We'll just do a pickup right there. But I was just mentioning, if you could share, like you mentioned, uh, this mixture of the meat of 70— what was it, 75% and then half heart and half liver, right? If we were to take this up, and does it come like ground beef? It looks like burger meat, or how does it look when you get it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, it looks like burger ground meat. Meat, and you can essentially just make taco meat with it, put some spices in it, or you can make a meatloaf for tacos, all that stuff.

So if we eat this combination that obviously you can get, uh, I've heard of the, the— what was some of the companies that you use or that you order from?

Uh, North Star Bison, White Oaks Pasture, and Force of Nature.

So if we were to use one of those companies, we'll include that in the show notes, guys, and, and incorporate this into our diet as a key element, how much of what we need from your book in the Mineral Fix are we going to get from eating that source, would you say? Quite a bit, right?

Yeah, it's— well, the liver is so important because it's going to give you copper, vitamin A, folate. And so it's, it's a perfect balance to the muscle meat, and it really gives you a lot of the minerals that are missing from muscle meat.

So one of the interesting people I had on the show contradicted that, saying that it was Shawn Baker. Do you know Dr. Baker? Right. He's written a couple of carnivore books, but he, unlike Paul Saladino, doesn't believe we need a lot of organ meat because he believes a lot of the same minerals are found in the meat of the animal, the, the muscle meat, right? Can you help clarify that? Because I think you, you probably lean into obviously what you just said, which is what Saladino would say, is that the organ meat is your ultimate source of these richer vitamins that you're not getting in, you know, whether it's a steak, ribeye, burger meat. Maybe explain that for us, because I feel like I know our audience would appreciate that, because I have myself have stopped eating a lot of liver because I thought it wasn't as as essential. But I'm feeling motivated right now with what you just said, that I need to get some heart meat and liver meat back into my diet on a regular. Do you do this every, every week, every day? How often do you eat that mixture? What do you call that mixture of the 75% and then the heart and liver? I mean, I feel like this is like a big distinction.

Yeah, you could just call it like a ground organ blend of meats. Okay. It also contains muscle meat.

Yeah.

And it's true, muscle meat is lacking in copper, folate, and vitamin A. So you will most likely become deficient if you're only consuming muscle meat for a decade in those nutrients. And it will probably happen much quicker than that, to be honest.

So bringing in the heart, but you would say if you were to rank them, muscle meat, of course, then, yeah, liver, correct? Number 2, liver. Liver, right? And then heart.

Yeah, maybe half, just like half an ounce to 1 ounce of liver per day is really all that's needed.

Wow.

So you don't need much. And the heart is great for coenzyme Q10, right? And that gives us energy. It's important for the electron transport chain. So it gives us ATP. So it gives you some energy.

Well, I love this because I feel like as much as, uh, you recommended some brands of multivitamins that we can purchase and even the water we can drink, this is really a food-based source, the organs. Are there any other parts of an animal that we should consume? Are those the two main parts? It's the muscle meat, the heart, the liver. Is there another part? Because I know people sometimes get into bone marrow and that's collagen, which I consume as well. I like that as a soup, but are there minerals in the marrow of the bone or other parts that you'd suggest? So I think this is important.

There's some good, there's some good fats in the bone and some people do consume kidney. You have to be careful with kidneys though, because they'll, they accumulate the toxic heavy metal cadmium. So I don't typically like to eat a lot of kidneys. Really, liver is the perfect multi-mineral to add to muscle meat.

Wow.

So that, and then heart as well. And what, and with the heart, uh, little less than the liver or about the same? You just do right down the middle, right?

Yeah, exactly. They're, they're split equal, but I think I just like consuming the heart because we would have consumed that. And it's really one of the only good sources, natural sources of CoQ10.

Wow.

Wow.

And for people listening that are vegan, vegans. And I'm not saying being a vegan is bad because you can get a lot of good sources from that. And obviously the plants are carbohydrates. And most people nowadays, whether they're plant-based or not, it's almost like religion. People are very polarized by one or the other. But is there an argument? I mean, obviously you walk your talk and you're more meat-based. You have some, I'm sure, carbs. And being Italian, I know I know you shared last time your sauce your wife makes, which is more of a meat-based sauce. And I don't think you mentioned pasta in that sauce, right? There isn't that much pasta, right? How do you— because I feel like I know your secret weapon to say no to pasta as much as you're Italian. It's salt, right? Because it turns off that craving. It's kind of like how we started the conversation. But for anyone out there who's Italian like you and says, no way, I can't stop eating pasta and bread and all that, how does what you do give you that strength? And when do you sometimes say, all right, I'm going to have some pasta, I'm going to have some pizza? I'm not saying Domino's, but maybe something a little better. Or do you just— do you yourself, as much as you're Italian, just have leaned more into the meat-based diet that the Italian culture has? Because there's great meat. I've been to Italy.

I love Italy.

Or do you do the carbs at times, the pastas and all the traditionals? How do you know in your mind when to enjoy that? Or do you just say, you know what, I'm going I'm good.

Right. Well, I think, I mean, for carbohydrate intake is sort of, it depends on how lean you are and how physically active you are and how much you exercise, right? Any, any athlete will tell you there, most athletes will refuel with carbohydrate and they'll take some longer acting carbs prior to performance to boost muscle glycogen levels. So all carbs aren't bad if they're whole food carbs and you're highly active person, right?

Sure.

And so that's kind of how the approach I take it. I like to exercise more and fuel myself with the nutrients rather than, um, you know, fast all the time, so to speak.

Yeah. Yeah.

So with, uh, with your desire for pasta, like if you're, if you're having your— I'd love to share the recipe again because we had it in the last show notes, but this meat sauce— share with everyone this, this incredible recipe that we shared with them on the last show. It's something your wife makes and you guys make as a family. But how do you say no to the carbs in that? Because you don't usually have it with any pasta, right, Dr. James?

Right. No. Yeah, no, typically it's like, it's just like a meat sauce really. And I've personally never craved pasta. So, and maybe it's because I've been, I've been more on a lower carb intake for a while. And so I think when you can, when you shift fuels, you no longer really crave it anymore.

Anymore.

Yeah.

And I feel like, and I bet the meat that you put in your meat sauce is the meat you just told us. It's that blend, right? So it has the liver.

Yeah. Or it could just be, it could be pork sausage.

I love that.

And then for, for the people that have kids, grandkids that are watching, and if they wanted to use your recipe and make it delicious, which it is, I've tried it and it's so good. How can they, can they sneak in, uh, the organ meat into that sauce? I mean, it's hard to distinguish. Sometimes it's a little tougher, but But if it's ground up, it kind of gets in there. And then you give someone, like you would share this with your family, your friends. It's this incredible nutritious, almost like perfect meal, right? It really is minus the carbs.

Exactly. You could just cook it in the pan and then throw it right in the sauce. Good to go.

I love it.

I love it. With desserts and treats, give us your take because, you know, a lot of people, even Dr. Oz talks about this on his show a lot about resveratrol, certain minerals and vitamins and nutrients that are found in treats such as wine. And I know being Italian, there are people that love red wines, white wines. How do you play with, uh, whether it's alcohol, desserts, which are straight up sugar? And I, I mean, not to end on how sugar is the villain, but I know you believe that, as I do, that sugar is something to be avoided. What do you do with your family, with your kids, with your, with, with your loved ones when it comes time to— after the main meal, you have your meat sauce, you have your your, your protein, uh, that's a blend hopefully of all these incredible nutrients with the sauce that you love. How do you take into account, uh, alcohol, desserts, the things that typically— that's where we can go crazy, and especially sugars and all that, you know, and alcohol, red wine too. Or do you just— I mean, tell us what— how, how you do it.

I mean, the simplest thing is just to not have it in the house, right? And especially the things that really trigger you. So like, for myself, Oh, like if it's my— the things that'll get me are donuts or like a moist brownie. So, so no, no, the things that'll really get you— or a buttery carb is something that gets me, whereas like chocolate, it doesn't. I don't really binge on chocolate. So sort of keep out of the house the things that you know you really can't control yourself.

And red wines and stuff like this, because you're Italian. I mean, talk to us about Italian wine. We all love I love a cab and all that. How do you do— do you not let it in the house or what? How do you do it? And your wife, how does she do it? You guys keep peace in the house or is she like, oh, come on, James, you're too strict. Or do you just— is it something you don't crave? Because I feel like this can be very helpful because I feel like a lot of people are drawn to those items. And I think you're a good, great role model, you know, in the sense of how you manage to limit it or remove it completely. Right. I mean, is it removed from your diet for the most part, special occasions or When do you say yes to a glass of wine? Possibly.

Yeah, it's essentially removed from my diet. But I think if you're someone who—

it's a slip—

alcohol is a slippery slope for a lot of people, right? You start drinking one glass and it becomes two, and it's very, it's very habit-forming, just like coffee. So all of a sudden now you're someone who's drinking 3 or 4 and you don't even realize it. You can, you can get there very quickly. So for some people like myself, I like to just not even have it. And on occasions or if I'm over with neighbors, maybe I'll have a glass or two. But in general, I just keep it out of the house.

I love that.

I mean, this is motivation. I mean, because I know you walk your talk too, because not that you do this, you're not a fitness trainer running around showing off your flat stomach, but you're in very good shape. I mean, I think I see sometimes you do some of your work in the sauna, which I have a sauna too. I love saunas. And, you know, sometimes we get to see your flat stomach and you really do walk the talk because, you know, they always say never trust a skinny Chef, right? Uh, because chefs should enjoy their food. But I would say nutritionist, not that you're necessarily a nutritionist, but you definitely have nutritional strategies. You walk your talk. I feel like you have energy, you are healthy, you are fit, you embody this. And you know, a lot of doctors and people that write books on nutrition don't necessarily look like the picture of health. I'm like, these people look like they're unhealthy, you know what I mean? Um, for anyone out there that, um, thinks what we've talked about is, is a big jump for them, what would be your first step for anyone listening? Because I do feel like your Salt Fix made it simple. I feel like they should get that book. The Mineral Fix should be added. There's the Immunity Fix as well, which is an incredible book you wrote. You've written a book with Dr. Jason Fung too. Remind us the title of that one.

Uh, that was The Longevity Solution.

Yep.

I feel like, what would— how would you end our conversation to guide people? And obviously we want to make sure they have your, your website and all that as well. But what— how would you give— like, if you're there, if there was a couple resources, maybe 2 or 3, obviously the new book is, is the encyclopedia. I think this has everything. Uh, The Salt Fix is my personal pick, you know, I would say that one as well. Those would be 2. If there's a 3rd book out of all the books you've written, what would be a book and why would they they need to get it? Because I think people should get as many of your books as possible because they're all so valuable, and there's so much research, I think, that lights up people's minds and makes them feel like this isn't just something you're saying, it's something backed by the studies, the citations. I mean, with this new book, thousands of citations. The Salt Fix, 500 citations. I mean, this is, this is your passion, you know. What would be a third resource? And would you, would you go Salt Fix, Mineral Fix, and then what would be the third? Or how would you organize the top 3 options from your perspective?

I guess it depends on the person's goal. If someone wants to go on a ketogenic diet, I would get Super Fuel because we really broke out what are the healthiest fats on a ketogenic diet. Myself, Mercola wrote that one. If you're someone who wants to just eat a more balanced diet and you want some plants, some animals, uh, food, then the Longevity Solution is probably for you. If you're someone who wants to obviously get your minerals fixed, Mineral Fix, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you're someone who's struggling with sugar addiction, sulfur fix. So it really depends what your goal is.

I love it.

No, and that's a great way to look at it because I feel like all your books have a different purpose and they have a different solution to help. And I feel like everyone listening has the sugar addiction, which is tough, but at the same time— uh-oh, I'm hearing something. Pardon me, guys. Pardon me, guys. That was an iPhone. I don't know how that came through there, but we are live here. But in ending with this, share with everyone where they can get a hold of you, how you are on social, your website, because I want them to stay in touch. And I'm just so honored you have this other book. It caught me off guard when I saw your Instagram. I was like, he's got a new book. And I reached out to you and here you are. So I'm thrilled. And being that it's Sunday, you know, we release these interviews on Sundays, I feel like this is the perfect way to start the week, or to, to start the week, uh, on a Sunday with this information. But give us your, your information so people can follow you on social, they can go to your website and add themselves to your newsletter, all that, please.

Sure. Yeah. So, well, speaking of Instagram, uh, and Twitter, it's, uh, @DrJames Dinic, which is D-I-N-I-C, and the website is drjamesdinic.com.

I love it.

It's simple. And then you wrote this book, as you do some of your books, with your co-author. Mention his name briefly. And I know he's in— is he right outside of Russia or where? What part of the world is he in?

His name is Siim Land. He's from Estonia.

Yes.

And he is a key part of this book, helped you with a lot of the research. So his take on this is, I would assume, similar, but he's got the perspective more from— what area would you say that he adds this? Is it something you guys just always do together?

Yeah, the last two we've done together, and he's more of like a biohacker, so he brings a nice perspective, um, from that aspect.

And if people wanted to follow his social— we haven't had him on the show, but I think if you could put us in touch, I think it'd be fun to have him on, and eventually maybe the two of you guys. But what's his info in case he's out there? Is he on your social and he's on your website and all that?

Yeah, he's, he's on, um, Instagram, @simland. Perfect.

All right. Well, I can't thank you enough. This is, as always, a provocative conversation. I know a lot of people are like, oh my gosh, like, this is— because it's not what we hear. You know, we're told certain things that are old dogma from 40, 50 years ago about how to be healthy, you know. And I feel like you brought us up to speed, and I feel like you're literally 10, 20 years in the future here. And I feel like with your support, with the support of all the people that I talk to, I feel like we can help change everyone listening to this. For a more enlightened kind of perspective on what human nutrition and health is required these days. And minerals, I mean, I feel like it's the one thing no one talks enough about. I feel like people think it's all just unnecessary. And I think this conversation was invaluable. So thank you, Dr. James, for always being a true compass for us, pointing us in the right direction and providing the resources that I think no one can deny the citations. No one can deny the science. You do such an incredible job. So as always, my hat's off to you. You and to your whole team. So thank you so much for your time and for writing this darn book because it is the best one out there. I can't wait to get my physical copy because I have it on my iPad. But thank you so much. It sits on there with my Salt Fix and all your books. I'm thrilled. So thank you again.

Thanks, Jorge.

You bet. All right.

Thanks so much.

Peace and purpose, everyone. All right.

Today's episode is complete, guys. Thank you so much for listening, and I want to ask you to please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, uh, and please leave a review on Apple as well. Give it 5 stars if you think the show has helped you in some way to transform your thinking. I hope it has. And more importantly, share your comments, your review of what today's episode did for your thinking and what you got out of it, because I think that is how we spread this. And for me, this is a revolution.

This is not a podcast.

This is a way of life, and I hope to transform over a million lives in the next couple years, and I need your help. So please become part of the Zero Hunger Revolution by leaving that review on Apple Podcasts and subscribing today. Thanks so much. Have a great one. Peace and purpose, and I'll see you on the next episode.