#149 - Dr. Jason Fung: Meet world’s leading fasting doctor and author

Intermittent fasting. What is it? A lot of people ask me this. They're like, Jorge, do you really fast every day? Well, the whole reason I created this podcast, Zero Hunger Guide, is to help people that do intermittent fasting paired with keto do it in a way where they're not hungry. Now, why am I in love with intermittent fasting? Why am I dedicating my entire career to this? Well, I'll tell you on today's show, you're going to hear from my expert, my mentor, my friend. His name is Dr. Jason Fung. We've been friends, he and I, for many years. He wrote the introduction to a book I wrote a few years back. And Jason basically has opened my eyes to how this ancient method of transforming health, not only is it timely, but it is time proven. Meaning there has never been an issue with intermittent fasting, whether you're doing a 16-hour fast, a 23-hour fast, a 48-hour fast, a 3-day fast, or like some of his clients, they do weeks and weeks of fasting. You're going to discover that women, yes ladies, listen to me, do not need to fast differently than men. And if anything, they can do more intermittent fasting than men. So yeah, ladies, you are stronger and more able than us. But more importantly, you're going to discover why we need to employ embraces as a tool that not only unlocks weight loss, but extends our lifespan. So all that on today's show. Now, before we get started, I want to give thanks to our sponsors. This year, I'm really grateful that we continue to have the support of Mark Sisson, the creator of Primal Kitchen. He's the man that actually introduced me to intermittent fasting. And his company, Primal Kitchen, is giving all of us a free lemon chipotle mayo made with avocado oil, which is anti-inflammatory. And I love healthy fats. You guys know it's one of the modalities that helps us extend fasting without breaking it. And so if you're interested in trying this, I put a dollop of the lemon chipotle mayo on all my meats when I have that, when I, when I break my fast. And they're giving all of us a free bottle. Write down this URL. Just simply go to primalkitchen.com/jorgecruz. You'll get this for free. It's a $9.95 value. As a listener of The Zero Hunger Guide. We're also brought to you by Elemental Labs. Now, Elemental Labs is by a friend of mine, Robb Wolf, who created what I think is the only Zero Hunger approved product that I would put my name on. That is an electrolyte that has the exact specific prescription of what you need, 1,000 milligrams. But rather than it tasting like salty water, he makes it taste delicious. So if you're interested in the Zero Hunger water I drink, and the only one that's been approved by me and my team. Check out zerohungerwater.com and get a free box of these electrolytes today. Again, the website is just zerohungerwater.com. Let's get started right now. Hi, my name is Jorge Cruise, but I'm also known as the Zero Hunger Guy. I'm a celebrity fitness trainer and a multiple New York Times bestselling diet author with 12 million fans. You may have seen my work with Oprah Winfrey, Khloe Kardashian, Kelly Clarkson, or even Steve Harvey. My career started because I was addicted to sugar, carbs, salty snacks, and stress, and experts told me to simply count calories to get control. They were wrong. My passion to get radical control over both physical and emotional health has led me to find science-proven shortcuts that help my clients drop 25 belly inches or even more fast and permanently. And I know I can help you too. Welcome to the Zero Hunger Revolution. I know what fasting has done for me at age now 51 this year. And I feel like for me, it goes way beyond weight loss. But Jason, I, you've written all the best books on this. Tell everyone briefly For those that may have not known of you until today, like briefly how you got into this kind of work in Toronto. You're a physician and you dedicate your life really to helping people utilize this strategy of fasting. Yeah.

So the, the thing about a lot of the health problems we face is that they're related to chronic diseases and a lot of them are related to weight. It's, they're not 100% related to weight. But on the other hand, we know that heart attacks and strokes and all these things are related to— type 2 diabetes is related to weight. If you lose weight, your type 2 diabetes usually gets better. So therefore, it's very easy to see why it's so important to lose weight so that you don't develop diabetes, so then you don't get diabetic kidney disease, for example. So that's really the link. And, and if you look at the big killers of Americans, for example, By far and away, it's heart attacks and strokes. The heart attacks and strokes, and then cancer. So that's considered cardiovascular disease, and then cancer is third. So all of them are related to weight, all of them are related to diabetes. So cancer, for example, as I talk about in The Cancer Code, in lots of cancers like breast cancer, colon cancer, are actually classified by the World Health Organization as obesity-related cancers. So therefore, if you reduce the obesity, you're going to do better. You're not going to reduce, reduce it 100%, but you'll do better. When we talk about Weight loss, of course, that's the big problem. So for years we talked about how it's just all about calories in, calories out. And unfortunately, that strategy just didn't work. It'd be great if it worked, but it didn't. And we've told countless millions of people that, oh, you just have to count your calories and cut your calories and you'll lose weight. But the actual evidence that it works is extremely low. So if it doesn't work, and we've all done it, like we know people who've done it, most of us have done it ourselves. You lose weight for 6 months, then you gain it all back no matter how hard you try. And everybody says, oh, it's because you're cheating. But no, it's not because you're cheating. It's because the strategy just wasn't very successful in the long term. If you have a strategy that fails 90 to 95% of the time, it'd be crazy to continue to recommend it, right? It's like, why would you do it? Like, it doesn't work, so why are you doing it? What has worked for a long time is fasting, and it's not really very difficult to understand. When you eat, Your body is taking in calories, which is a, it is just energy, right? And there's too much energy for you to use all at once, so you store some of it. When you don't eat, you're gonna take the energy that you've stored away and use it. That's why you don't die in your sleep every single night because you've stored some of it away. So, right. The point is, and it, and it's no different than if you make money and you put it in the bank so that when you retire you can take money outta the bank, right? It's the same idea. There's nothing. Magical about it. So if you want to get rid of some body fat, remember, body fat is nothing more or less than a store of calories, which is there for you to use when you don't have anything to eat. So if you don't eat, you're going to create the conditions where you can take those calories out, like from your sort of bank, a storage form of calories, which is your body fat. And there's nothing unnatural about it. That's literally the reason we have body fat. It's not there for looks. It's there because you are using it as a store of calories. So that's it. And it's been used for thousands of years. Obviously, people in the past didn't have food all the time, so they needed it as a storage form. Even when they did have enough, all these religions would have periods of fasting, which would of course be the same thing. And it, it was considered a form of cleansing, a form of purification. And really when you look at the physiology of what happens during fasting, that's precisely what it does. It just gets rid of all the excess glucose. It gets rid of all the excess fat. And it's probably never more important than it is now. But the strange part is that it's, it became taboo word. People thought fasting was this sort of crazy idea, even though it's been used for thousands of years. If you have a practice that's been used for 3,000 years, like if there's anything wrong with it, you would've figured it out like 3,000 years ago. Like it's, there's nothing new under the sun. So obviously there's nothing really wrong with it, but somehow it got a dirty name. So then that's why people stopped using it. And for me it was very important. Important because this is a strategy that is free, that's accessible, that nobody needs to buy anything for. You don't need to pay anybody. You don't need clinics. You don't— nobody— you can do it yourself. You just don't eat for a certain period of time. Then you let your body use up your body fat stores, and then you can become much healthier. In fact, some people were reversing their type 2 diabetes. They were losing hundreds of pounds. It was incredible. And it's all from this tool that's, you know, been used for thousands of years, that's free, that's natural, right? It's like, oh my God, what could be better? You just have to let people know. And that's where I started to talk about it. Because for me, it was like, there's no reason not to let people know. Like, I don't need to, I don't need to even know them or make money off of them or anything. They can just know that this is available for them. If they don't wanna do it, fine. Like, I'm not their mother. They can do it or they cannot do it. That's up to them.

Sure.

You're right. But at least they have the knowledge that it is something that they can try if they want to. And we've heard from so many people over the years having so much success with it, and it's great to hear, and it's good that it's coming back. And the key is natural thing. It's not something weird that I just made up 6 months ago and nobody's ever done it before. It's been done for thousands of years. In fact, the very word Breakfast, break fast means that, hey, you should be fasting, then you should break your fast, then you should go into your fast, then you should break your fast. It's this, it's, it's simply a cycle of feeding and then fasting. You shouldn't feed all the time, right? Because if you're feeding all the time, you're going to store calories. You have to balance your feeding with your fasting. And if you balance them, of course, some of the time you're putting calories in. Some of the time you're taking calories out and that's the whole point. Like that's how you become healthy is get that balance, right? It's not all one or the other. It's like sleep, right? If you have too little sleep, it's not good. If you have too much sleep, if you sleep 20 hours a day, that's also not good. It's all a balance there.

And I think what you've said, Jason, is that it's so beneficial for disease prevention. And I feel like for me, and I know a lot of our listeners to The Zero Hunger Guide, they're here because they know fasting. Is a tool they need to use. And if you're new to the show, guys, like, this is the man. Jason is the man that really every expert has gone to. And I remember last year, I was so honored that you joined us on The Doctors and we had this debate about OMAD, that acronym, one meal a day. And for some people, that's pretty extreme. They're like, oh my God. They look, they say Jorge Cruise is this crazy trainer from LA and I'm in San Diego, but regardless of that, people that do one meal a day are crazy. Let alone you hear people doing 3-day fasts, right, Jason? And not to tempt people, but what do some of your clients do? They do more than 3-day fasts, right, Jason?

Yeah. So people do all kinds of different fasts. The thing to understand is that if you don't eat for 1 day, 24 hours, you need— so normally, if, for example, you eat 2,000 calories in a day, that's just an average number. It's easy for calculation. Yeah. But if you have 2,000 calories and 1 pound of fat is about 3,500 calories, it's about half a pound of fat to provide your energy, provide all the energy your body needs for a full day. So, well, that's only half a pound. Like, a lot of us are trying to lose 10, 20, 30 pounds. So you could realistically and healthily go 20, 30, 40 days if you wanted to. Now you don't have to do it all at once. And of course it's, there's no reason to push it if you don't have to. Exactly.

It's positive that, because I think a lot of people think we're not capable that the human species, I don't wanna exaggerate, but I think people think it's very delicate. Explain maybe why that may not be true, Jason.

Yeah. And again, it's just very simple. If you look at the world record fast, it was actually 380 days. It was like a huge number. Like we're afraid to go 30 hours and this guy guys going 300 days without eating, and that was medically supervised and all that. That's why they wrote it up and so on. But the point is that the upper limit is way, way up there. Like the upper limit of fasting is not like 1 day. The upper limit of fasting is 380 days. Now, the other thing is that, again, if you think you're, if you think you're not getting enough nutrients, like there's 2 different things about eating. One is the calories, which is energy, and it doesn't say whether it's nutritious or not. It's just energy. And then there's, of course, nutrition, which is your proteins and your vitamins and minerals. Like, your vitamins and your minerals and stuff, yeah, you could get it from a multivitamin if you want to. And there's proteins and there's fats. But if you look at it, most of us get enough of that and have too many of the energy, which is the calories. So therefore, that fasting is really simply taking the calories back out from your fat stores, and that's all it is. And that's, you know, one of the reasons we tend to go shorter fasts so that you can get some of the nutrients that you need. But on the other hand, a lot of people go 3, 5, 7 days at a time. 7 days is really long, and it is a bit of a stretch, but it's gonna cause— it's gonna use the energy contained within 3.5 pounds of body fat, and that's it. Most of us have more than that. So even if you're 10% body fat, and keeping in mind that 10% body fat is extremely low, like you look like a marathoner at that level, if you're 180 pounds, you've got 18 pounds pounds of fat. So to use 3 is okay. So even if you're really skinny, you would still have more than enough that you'd need to go for 7 days. I'm not saying that you should, but you can easily go 24 hours, 30 hours, whatever.

So the big question I feel like that I've been gathering here, but so many people were excited that we're going to do our conversation for the new year here was about, all right, if fasting is something that they want to do, they listen to this podcast, Zero Hunger Guys. So they're not hungry. While we fast. So I thought, let's dive into 3 little points that are important here on fasting and how to quell that hunger. How much I love sodium, magnesium, potassium juice. Remember I did this on that show, The Doctors, and can you briefly share with us why minerals can help that hunger and more importantly, confirm that water with minerals will not break the fast and will aid people, I would say, as step 1 and really feeling less— what's the word? Is it hunger? It really is, right, Jason? That's the fear, right? They have this—

yeah, it's the fear. Yeah, and certainly these sorts of things can help with fasting. It gives you something to put in. It gives you some of these nutrients back that you might not need. Some of the things like salt and so on, because when you're fasting, if you're not eating anything, of course, you're getting zero salt, which can make you a little bit more— a bit dehydrated, for example. You might get a little bit dizzy sometimes. So making sure that you get enough minerals is certainly one of the things that makes the fasting easier compared to a sort of a classic water-only fast. So that's, those sorts of products are great. And if they allow you to go longer and do the more of the fasting, then that's perfect. It's definitely something that, that, that should be a consideration. Yeah.

And I love that it's so simple and easy. So now let's get to the next level. That's not as easy. Let's talk about cheating the fast with actual, I hate to call it, but certain macronutrients or foods. We've talked briefly in the past about things like butter in coffee. We blend that up. You helped to write an endorsement to a book I did years ago, Cruise Control. Tell everyone why that kind of a, like fat, for example, right, Jason, in a tea or coffee, if it's a certain amount, maybe tell us the guidelines on that macronutrient and obviously healthy fats, why that could be something that we could use without breaking the fast so much.

Yeah, exactly. So fat is one of these things. Fat for much of the '80s and '90s was this really demonized sort of word, and it was based on the idea that if you ate a lot of fat, that it would clog your arteries and you'd get heart attacks. Turns out that's not true at all. And all these, the studies on using a very low-fat diet didn't really work to lower heart disease. It was actually quite— and there's the same sort of phobia around saturated fats, particularly, and this switch that we had. Where we went from butter, which is a natural product, to margarine, which is a highly unnatural product, turned out to have all these trans fats too. Serves more as a cautionary tale. And of course, what was striking about this whole thing in the '70s and '80s, when we went from butter to margarine, which turned out to contain a lot of trans fats, was that we were trying to prevent heart disease because we are so worried about the, the, the saturated fat and butter, that we ate a completely unnatural product with trans fats that were actually causing heart attacks. So we weren't actually preventing heart attacks in the '80s with, by going to margarine, we were actually causing heart attacks, right?

Crazy.

It was crazy. And it was estimated somewhere around 100,000 heart attacks a year we were causing because of this switchover to eating margarine. So of course, In the last 5 years or so, we've bought—

which are seed oils, right? Right, Jason, tell everyone.

Yeah. And it's because they're hydrogenated. Yeah, they were hydrogenated vegetable oils and it turns out, and that's what trans fats are. And then when you eat, when you take the trans fats, of course it's unnatural. And the point really being that if you eat natural foods, you're probably going to be just way ahead of the game. So even if you think you're smart by— we always think we're smarter than nature. And it's this idea and it's so bad. And we did We did this, of course, for a lot of things. So the, the classic is breast milk. Feeding babies formula in the '60s was very in vogue because we were gonna make a better breast milk than breast milk. So that was the idea behind infant formula. So the marketing, of course, was if you loved your kids, you'd have to put 'em on formula. And of course, tons of people did it. Marketing. And it was so bad.

Yeah.

That in the '90s, there was a huge campaign. It took a huge advertising campaign. I don't know if you remember. I don't remember this, but there's a whole breast is best, right? It's, it seems so duh now, but it was, it was so ingrained that formula was better than breast milk that it took health professionals a huge amount of effort to, to mount this campaign called Breast Is Best to tell people, hey, actually the best food for your baby is breast milk, which is natural. Same thing with butter. It's okay. So we've been eating butter for thousands of years. If it caused heart attacks, like we would've found out about it a couple thousand years ago. Instead, we ate this highly artificial trans fat laden margarine, which we had no idea what the effect was. Turns out it caused heart attacks. It's so ironic that in the effort to prevent a heart attack, we actually caused a heart attack.

So is that crazy? And along the lines with butter, Jason, I know a lot of people always ask about egg yolk scrambles. We see them as little fasting hacks. Tell us there's a limit there, right? Or can we have as many egg yolks as we want, like the butter, or not so much?

The point about fat is that it's gonna keep you in this sort of fat burning state. So your body can either burn sugar or it can burn fat. So sugar, like carbohydrates. So you can burn carbohydrates or you can burn fat. If you eat a lot of fat, like the ketogenic diet, then you're gonna be in the fat burning state. It doesn't mean you're gonna lose weight because if you're putting in a lot of fat and burning fat at the same time, You're not going to lose weight. So the point is that you want to— so you can't eat unlimited amount of fat because yes, you're going to stay in that ketogenic fat burning state, but you're adding in so much fat that you simply can't burn it off to lose net body fat.

So don't overdo it.

Maybe exactly.

Yeah.

You want to get enough to say curb the hunger and get rid of it without coming out of that sort of fat burning state where you're using, where you're using glucose, but If you take too much, then it's just, it's just you're filling it up at the same time you're getting rid of it. In the end, it may be zero, as opposed to if you say, let's just get enough to take the edge off, then you're going to be burning more than you're putting in.

And because we've done this talk before, Jason, let me lead this and then you guide it. Now, the reason, if I remember in our past conversations about fat being this friend, right? Not enemy, not a foe. And in fasting, how it can mimic fasting. If we put it in our coffee or tea, it can not turn off the fasting autophagy and the mechanism for all that. But the reason is insulin, because if I remember my science right, carbohydrates and protein though, just a small amount, maybe 2 to 3 grams, right? Raises that insulin and then breaks the autophagy, the fasting. So maybe explain briefly why insulin is the gauge and how fat really doesn't do that, Jason, so people get it., but unfortunately proteins and carbs do. And so are there any proteins and carbs that we can cheat with? Why do I feel like the answer may be no or yes or maybe, but is insulin the gauge? Could we start with the insulin?

Talk about that. Yeah, so insulin is essentially the switch that tells your body to store fat or not store fat. So when you eat, insulin goes up, it tells you to store those calories. And one of the ways it does is as body fat, and one of the ways you can store sugar actually as well. So that's what it does. That's what it's supposed to do. It's not good or bad by itself, but if you keep that switch on all the time, then you're going to store a lot of body fat. So that's the point, right? So if you keep taking insulin, and certain foods, of course, stimulate insulin more than others. So carbohydrates, especially the refined carbohydrates. So this is like the white bread and the cookies and stuff, as opposed to like the unrefined carbs, like beans and stuff. So, if you take that, you're going to— you're sort of throwing that switch really high as opposed to a little bit high if you take unrefined carbohydrates. The proteins is just— it does raise insulin, but it also raises glucagon, so it actually tends to have a very modest effect. And then fats barely have any effect. But that's the switch really towards storing fat and then switching over to the carbohydrate side. Remember, there's these two sort of fuels, so you're switching over to using the carbohydrates and then storing fat, as opposed to if you're eating fat, then you go into this fat-burning mode. But at the same time, you've still got this balance between you're adding fat and, and, and burning fat. So you have to watch how much you're doing. Protein's a bit of a sort of an in-between because yes, it stimulates insulin, but it doesn't really, it doesn't really raise blood glucose because it also has an effect on glucose. Where it does have an effect is the autophagy, which is what some people use the fasting for, which is this sort of rejuvenation renewal cycle. The, one of the Nobel Prize winners called it the cell's recycling system. So it's a sort of clearing out system. And protein is the one thing that really turns that autophagy off. So it's a high protein, uh, can sometimes work against you. So that's why a lot of people move back into natural fats, whereas we went from a very low fat. You don't necessarily have to go super high fat, but you don't have to worry about it. And that this is one of the big things of the last 10 years. We recognize that things, high-fat foods like nuts and olive oil and avocados and fatty fish like salmon, they weren't like just, they weren't bad for you at all.

Yeah.

They were actually really good for you. Like things like avocados. Remember in the '80s? Like nobody ate avocados. No. Yeah. 'Cause we thought they're like a heart attack in a fruit sort of thing. It was just like, completely like you'd never eat it 'cause you thought you would die after you ate an avocado. Now it's, oh wow. It's like One of the healthiest things you can eat.

Now let's talk about something that has been new on my radar because for years people have talked about glucomannan. Is that right? Glucomannan, a purified form of fiber, which is turned into a noodle and literally they have 9 calories for this large serving. Can you talk to us about this? Pronounce the word for us, Jason. It's glucomannan. Is that right?

Glucomannan. Yeah. So it's some kind of yam.

Yes.

And it's from Asia cuz I find it actually in the Asian food stores quite easily. And they've been around actually for quite a few years there because then they're, they're basically, it's a lot of fiber and undigestible stuff. So you don't absorb it, but it actually tastes like noodles. So if you, you want noodles, if you want to eat noodles, then it's, wow, this one has barely any calories, like no carbs. It's wow. And you're still eating noodles. It still tastes good. So I actually have been eating it for quite a while just because it's it's just, it's just like a lot of, it's just like eating something with a lot of fiber and stuff. It's getting—

if someone were fasting, I always tell some celebrities that this could be a meal, like a, like a cheat meal. You could have this at a lunch or something with butter and salt, a little butter, salt. And this is all fiber. And literally if it's butter or we'll say fat and fiber, in essence, if you eat that, it really is, it's not going to break the autophagy to a significant degree because you don't really absorb any of it.

And yeah, absolutely.

Say that again, Jason.

Yeah, because you don't, like, there's very few calories. A lot of it is just fiber. With fiber, the point of fiber is that it's not absorbed. It's not, um, digested and it's not absorbed. So it just goes right through you. So same thing when you're eating a lot of high fiber foods, of course, even though there's a lot of carbs in the fiber, your body doesn't absorb anything. So when you talk about net carbs, you usually take the total carbs and you subtract the fiber carbs because those carbs, the grams of of fiber actually just don't count because your body can't absorb them.

And they call that net carbs.

So it's like, that's something good.

Recommended. That works, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Most people do talk about net carbs because it's really not fair to say if you ate 50 grams of carbs, but 48 grams of fiber, well, your body really only absorbs like 2 grams. And that's why people usually just count net carbs. If you eat sawdust, it's, it's not, you're not going to absorb any of it. It's just going to go right through you. Fiber is like that. Yeah. Fiber is like that. It's the indigestible part of the carbohydrate.

Well, let's end with this, Jason, because this is controversial and I think it's a great way to end the interview. Men versus women in fasting. There's a lot of people out there say women completely have to eat very differently. You and I have talked about this before. I think I know what you're going to say, but tell us, is there a difference between men and women fasting? Yes or no?

I think it's not a huge difference. Women can fast, obviously they've done it for thousands of years. So there's always this thing about, oh, women can't fast. It's like anybody can fast if they have more than— more body fat than they want, then you can fast. Any age?

Yeah, yeah.

Jason? Any age, because that's a store of calories, right? Again, if you have— if you need 2,000 calories in a day and you have 200,000 calories in your body fat, then let your body use it. It will figure out a way to use it. The men and women thing is that a lot of women notice sort of certain patterns during fasting that men don't. So men tend to lose weight very quickly up front. So when they start fasting, they'll very often notice, like, lose weight right away. And while some women are like that, obviously, but a lot of women notice that it takes them a little bit longer to get going. So they're more like the slow and steady, as opposed to the men who are, "Oh, they'll lose like 50 pounds right away and then they'll plateau." So they have this sort sort of different shape of weight loss, so to speak. It doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just means that you're, if you're a woman and you're doing it with your husband, may go down 20 pounds immediately, whereas you will go slowly. And women also get a little bit more success, and this is just purely anecdotal data, with longer fasts. They tend to do better. Like the shorter stuff, like they tend not to find it so useful. And this is just from our clinical experience. When they start to go longer, that's when a lot of women say, okay, that was the real key for me was to go longer. And the 24s, the 36s, and that's what really helped.

I find the same. We, we did groups here with Zero Hunger Guy with some of the podcast listeners, and they did incredibly well where they did one meal a day. And then what would happen on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, they would fast. So that's a 3-day, tell everyone that is a Is that a 72-hour fast, Jason?

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

And that's something that if, and then people think that seems like you're only eating 4 meals in a week. It's a good meal, but it's something that from what you have shown as well, from what you've done, seems to favor women, especially women over 50. Would you say, Jason?

Yeah, because that's the sort of perimenopausal time period that a lot of women have trouble with. Yeah. And so they've, a lot of them have done every single diet under the sun sort of thing, but once they start to get into the longer stuff, it seems to break that pattern for them that they really are— and perhaps their body doesn't want to get into that fat-burning stage so easily, but when you really force the issue by not eating, you're forcing your body to use body fat. Then once they get into that, then they start, "Okay, here, I almost break that," and the dam sort of breaks, and then they can they can get the results that they're looking for, whereas up to that point, sometimes, even with the shorter fasts, they haven't quite gotten there yet. And it's totally individual. Like, some people won't notice this at all, but, again, it just gives you another tool in your tool belt. So remember, for a 3-day fast, you're really looking at 1.5 pounds of body fat. It's not a lot, but it may be enough to get that ball rolling, and that might be the really hard part, And if it works for you, if you don't need it, then fine, don't use it. But if you really have nothing else, then it's like, hey, maybe this is, this will work for me. And that's what people have noticed. So you don't have to do it, but it gives you options. That's what we're all about. It's like you give people the option of doing it. You can't just say, oh, keep doing calorie counting because everybody's done it like 50 times and it hasn't worked. So you can't do it a 51st time and expect it to work. It won't. So that's why these sort of strategies, these sort of fasting strategies, these cheat strategies, these long strategies, they're all just options for people. They don't have to do any of it.

Jason, this has been an incredible conversation as always. I can't thank you enough. I feel like if people want to pick up your books, guide us, what are their, your references to your books? Because if they go to Amazon, you have at least how many books now, Jason?

Um, I have like, uh, 7, I think, but some of them are like cookbooks and stuff, which are just the— but The Obesity Code is really about the science of weight loss, and that's a great place to start. For those with diabetes, which is a very important health issue, The Diabetes Code is a more guided look into that. So those are good places to start for fasting. I have a few other books and—

And you have an incredible new YouTube channel that has how many million viewers?

The subscribers, we have about 750,000, although total, it's— I don't know, they always throw these big big numbers, but 35 million views or something like total views or something like crazy. I can't like, it's unfathomable. But the great thing is that with YouTube, again, you can watch it anytime you want, anywhere you want. It's totally free. And then you can pick up information, 90 videos. So you can choose whatever video, if you want to talk about tips on fasting, if you want to talk about the 5 stages of fasting or beginning fasting or diabetes, it's all there. You just pick through it and it's all totally free. It's great.

The YouTube channel, Jason.

So just look under my name, Jason Fung. It's, and there's that, like I said, just browse through the videos and pick out the ones that you want, but there's, it covers all the information you need to get started.

Jason, thank you so much for your help. This conversation has always has been such a pleasure and I feel empowered to do a 3-day fast. And I think the great thing about fasting is it can really also just transform our vitality and longevity. And you've proven that because you too, Jason, now I think you're a little younger than I, but I think I think most people that do the fasting feel this sense of incredible happiness. And I sense that in you every time we talk. So thank you for spreading that. And I think helping more people have more of that good health and that happiness, right, Jason?

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm only, I'm turning 49.

So there you go.

Yes. Behind you. And you're just really, it's something that actually, I think becomes more important. As you get to my age sort of thing.

Yeah.

Come middle age and stuff, it's just because all these things creep up on you. Like when you're 20, sure, you can go out and party all night and not sleep and eat whatever you want. You can't do that. Like, it just doesn't work. So you got to start looking after yourself. And the fasting is a great way because it really keeps everything in check so that you're really, you're not letting things creep up like the sugars, like the weight. And even when you do it, you really actually start to feel this Hey, I actually feel pretty good. Yes, I'm hungry, but mentally I feel good. My body feels good. And sometimes you really need that. Like, it's just an— it just becomes more and more important as you get older to try and stay healthy. That's the key, right? Maybe you don't live longer, but you want to be healthier while you're living. That's important.

Quality. Absolutely. Jason, thank you, my friend. We'll talk soon. All right. Peace and purpose. Thanks, Jason. Okay.

Thank you.

All right, today's episode is complete, guys. Thank you so much for listening, and I want to ask you to please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcast, uh, and please leave a review on Apple as well. Give it 5 stars if you think the show has helped you in some way to transform your thinking. I hope it has. And more importantly, share your comments, your review of what today's episode did for your thinking and what you got out of it, because I think that is how we spread this. And for me, this is a revolution. This is not a podcast, this is a way of life. And I hope to transform over a million lives in the next couple years, and I need your help. So please become part of the Zero Hunger Revolution by leaving that review on Apple Podcasts and subscribing today. Thanks so much, have a great one, peace and purpose, and I'll see you on the next episode.