004: The Four Pillars of Fleet Success - Resource Efficiency

Welcome to the Fleet Success Show, a podcast dedicated to talking about the fundamentals, standards, and best practices that empower today's fleets to achieve fleet success. Let's get into the show.

All right.

Welcome to another episode of Fleet Success. Here we are back at it again. Steve. Jeff, how goes it?

Hello, good topic.

Good topic today. We got a great topic coming in. So we're on to pillar number 3. Last week we talked about intentional culture. Week before that was stakeholder satisfaction. Pillar number 3, resource efficiency. Right? So Jeff, take us away. Resource efficiency.

Definition: making the best use of your two most finite resources, time and money.

All right.

So why this pillar? Like, why is efficiency a pillar of fleet success? Like, why does this deserve to be at the table, so to speak?

I think we talked about it. You know, no fleet has unlimited time and money, unlimited budget. So how do you balance that? Right. In fact, if you talk to most fleet managers, they never have enough money no matter what year it is or what economy they're in.

Right?

Or time.

Or time.

Or time. Yeah, either.

Yeah.

Well, I think that, you know, you think about it, if you had unlimited budget, you could go out and double the size of your fleet and you'd have enough spares that, you know, if one went down, you'd probably have a bunch of spares that you could use. You'd never have to worry about, you know, getting the right replacement or anything like that. You just buy more vehicles, you know.

Same with mechanics. You just hire as many as you can.

Just hire as many as you want, right? Yeah.

So, and that kind of goes back to that balance between efficiency and effectiveness. You can be totally 100% effective if you got unlimited resources. That becomes, but that's not efficient, right?

Well, and the fact of the matter is, we don't have unlimited resources, right? We don't have an unlimited budget. There are always, you know.

Unless you're the federal government.

Well, maybe. But even then, right?

We just print money.

So this idea of efficiency is kind of like this, you know, this is why it's a pillar, I think, is it's really the cornerstone. We talk about fleet management. The whole reason that you're there as a fleet manager is to be a steward, right? A steward of the fleet and to make sure that it's operational and that, you know, why stakeholder satisfaction? Because you want to get the job done, but you've got to get the job done within these finite constraints that you have to meet. Steve, you talked about like this difference between efficiency and effectiveness. Play on that a little bit more.

Well, I mean, you know, we talked about it, you know, that efficiency and effectiveness, the number one way a fleet manager loses their job is being inefficient, not being able to balance their budget, not being able to manage their resources. It's always been a challenge. It's always going to be a challenge. You know, I mean, basically to balance the two of them together, you've got to be able to balance your resources, your inputs versus your outputs. You know, the very fewest inputs to accomplish the very few outputs that you have. So I mean, it's kind of a—

it's hard to really put words on that, but I think you've hit on something there, right, which is I mean, you can go out and look at the definition of what efficiency means, right?

Right.

And it's something they teach you in school, but essentially you're trying to get a maximum output, right? Peak performance, get the most out of it, whatever you want to call that, right? But getting a maximum output with the least amount of input, right? The minimum input to get the maximum output. You might call it ROI, you might call it anything, but it's really about taking what you have and getting the most out of that.

Yes, right. Well, like for example, I mean, if you had a mechanic and you gave him all day to do a 1-hour job, it's not efficient, right? So you somehow you need to baseline and measure that and give people expectations.

But if you have that same mechanic and, you know, you had 8 1-hour jobs and you've got 8 hours in a day and they're able to come in and do all 8 of those in half the time Well, that's getting the most effort, right? The most output for the least amount of effort, right? That's 8 hours of work with 4 hours of effort, right? And understand the difference between that is efficiency. The fact that you got all 8 jobs done, that's effectiveness.

Yeah, right.

And being able to balance between those two.

So I was just going to ask, can you not have both? Can you be effective in one and not the other?

I think that's a good question. I think yes and no, right? You could be totally effective if efficiency didn't matter, right? Like if you had unlimited budget and you had unlimited time, I think that's— but we know that's not the case, so automatically the answer has to be no.

There could be instances where you want to be more effective and not quite as efficient.

It doesn't matter how much you spend or how much time you spend?

Well, I think it always matters how much you spend, but I mean in the area of safety, for example, you know, where people's lives are in the balance, You maybe want to be more effective at times and more efficient, you know, because there's the risk is greater, which we're gonna probably, we'll talk about that next week, you know, on that last pillar. But you know, you don't want to ever try and stretch your efficiency when it sacrifices a person, I don't think. I mean, that's just one area I would always err on the side of, oh, We're gonna be a little less efficient here so we don't kill somebody, right? But we're gonna do it as best we can. You know, I mean, still trying to strive for efficiency, but—

Well, I think that's— and that's where that risk trade-off comes in, right? Is it's, yeah, you might be willing to become a little less effective, but why not totally ineffective, right? You know, if a life is really worth that much. And I think that's where it comes back to return on on input, right? What's your ROI on that? You know, if we get, if we go 80% for, you know, this much money, but to get that next 10%, it's going to cost us double what we did for the first 80, then you start talking about trade-offs, right? Because is the risk worth reward, right? Is the juice worth the squeeze? There's always a saying that we've got.

There's that one incident you talked about with time and money. Right, where, you know, your time and money are finite usually, you know. And so there may be a time, there may be an instance where you have a new person on board and you may spend more time to help them become more efficient down the road by, you know, giving them some training. And they may not complete a job as quickly until they're fully trained. So you have to balance those two 2 variables to be effective and efficient.

So how do we know, right? Like, you know, we can sit here and talk about, you know, why is efficiency important? We feel like, you know, this is an important topic, but how do you even know? Where do you start?

Well, there's always a baseline, and that baseline isn't always set in stone. It depends on what you're actually measuring. Because I'll revert back to trucking, it's what I know. In trucking, right, you look at your gold standard trucking companies, you look at their operating ratio and really, you know, their financials, and you have the Knight Transportation or the Heartland Expresses that always have just stellar operating ratios and great returns to their investors. And that's what I would put as a baseline for most trucking companies when you talk about your efficiency and how you want to perform. Not everyone can get to that level, but then if you switch it up and you talk about something a little bit more in the weeds on what the efficiency is, and you talk about maybe doing an A-service, how long should an A-service take, right? Well, there's an industry standard on how long an A-service should take, and maybe you measure to that, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the right standard. Because people work at different speeds. So you've gotta have a little bit of a window, right, when you're measuring efficiency, especially when you're dealing with people, because people learn at different speeds, people act at different speeds, people perform at different speeds. But if you've got some sort of a standard set in place— an A service should take no more between 2 and 3 hours, call it— and you're beyond that, you're not efficient. If you're below 3 hours, then you are efficient. So there's something different for every specific thing you're trying to measure when you want to quantify what the efficiency is.

So you brought up, you know, like this, the standard repair times, you know, concept. And that's a good way to start, right? Especially if we're talking about technicians in the, you know, in the vehicle bays working on the vehicles. It's a start. But I think you've hit the nail on the head is that this is a standard average repair time across, you know, North America typically. What if you're dealing with, you know, vehicles up in the north versus down here in Arizona? There's a huge problem that you have anywhere it snows that we don't deal with down here, right? It's rust, right? And rust automatically is going to add time to any job. So is that standard really the standard you should be applying yourself to, or could you do even better?

Well, I think most standard repair times for mechanics are a range, you know. I mean, and I think they take into consideration all those variables. But going back with what Jeff said, if you can't you can't manage it. It's that simple. So when you have to go, you have to create some type of a standard for yourself, either internally or if you can find one externally. You know, I've always said to myself, the metrics that matter to me are my metrics, because I don't know what the variables are in somebody else's metrics, right? You can use those as maybe a watermark, but you can't ever use them to really make yourself efficient to.

So the first thing is just set a baseline.

Yeah, exactly.

And then you can go start going through. I remember one of the things Grandpa did when he was at UPS, right? And this is kind of his famous study that got him a lot of recognition. You know, they knew that it took them about 12 hours to rebuild the engine on their UPS trucks, right? The truck would come in, 12 hours later they could send it back out on the road again. So they measured and they figured out that's their baseline. Now, they didn't know They weren't comparing themselves necessarily to other fleets or, you know, other, other people that were in the industry at the time. They just knew that their number was 12 hours and they said, look, what can we do to get it out quicker so that we can be more efficient? Right? Could we get it out in 8 hours? Could we get it out in 6? And we touch on this, you know, what are ways that you can, when you realize that you're inefficient or at least If you want to improve, maybe you're totally efficient, you just don't know it yet. Then you sit back and you observe. And Steve, you've done this before. I know Grandpa did this, but he basically, they went in and they watched this guy work this truck, right? And they looked for inefficiencies in the process, times where he was, you know, doing the same thing, a repetitive task, a redundant task, right? Times where He gave an example that he would walk to the parts room and every time he walked to the parts room, somebody would stop him and chat with him for 5 minutes.

Yep.

And because he walked to the parts room 10 times, well, 10 times 5, that was an hour just in conversation that happened. It had nothing to do with the work being done. So it was not only ineffective, it was also inefficient. You know, somebody would steal the guy's air hose. And so he'd come back from going to the parts room and he'd have to go find another air hose. You know, he wouldn't have all the parts he needed, and so he'd constantly be going back and forth there. The wash bay was around the corner, and there was only one of them, right? And so you observe, and you realize, wow, okay, what if we were to cut this step out completely? Or what if we did, you know, rearrange the work area and made it so that you only had to walk those 5 steps once instead of 20 times? Or what if we brought that closer? Yeah, you're gonna have to go back and forth 20 times, but now it's only 5 steps away instead of 50, right? Grandpa, he was notorious for counting steps. How many steps did it take you to get from the truck to the front door of that place when he was delivering UPS packages? He would count his steps. Do I keep my keys in my left hand or my right hand, right? Like, he was looking at all these weird things that he didn't have a baseline to compare it to. He would compare it to himself.

Yep. Well, I think that's what you need to do. I mean, I— you reminded me of the instance, and I've had this happen in several places where I've worked, where, you know, you just don't— you just have a feeling that the time it's taking to do a particular job is not right. Sometimes you validate it and it was right, but other times you'll go in and you'll, you'll process map it and you'll go in there and you say, you know what, we can eliminate that. Or we ask the question, you know, why did you pass the rear wheel to inspect you know, this, this other part, right? So let's just do that on the way. Let's make sure your inspection is in the right order, you know. And then, you know, you start using tools like, you know, swim lanes and flowcharts and, and things to really map it out and see what you can cut out that might have been an extra step or a waste of time, you know. It really goes back to that Lean Management Six Sigma kind of approach, yeah, you know, to become totally efficient.

So I would equate this to sports, right? You look at someone that's doing the 100-yard dash and how they evaluate themselves, how quickly they get off the blocks, what their stance is, do they have all their hand— their hands down, do they, you know, I'm saying, what knee goes forward first, uh, how long are their steps. It's just, it's all mapped out to make them a lot more efficient in, in killing their time. And even the fastest person in the world is always going to want to improve upon that time. And that's the thing you got to think about when you're talking about being efficient is, yes, you may be the gold standard, but you should always be trying to improve.

Usain Bolt does that, right?

Yes.

Always trying to improve. And that guy's a world record holder.

Right. And no one gets close to him. No, he burns everybody. He turns around and waves as he crosses the finish line.

Right.

But yet he's out there and he's still trying to improve. At some point, I think he's probably going to retire.

But, you know, there's a great quote with him this week. I mean, people— he says people are impatient when it comes to You know, becoming more efficient. He said he works for years and years to run 100 yards in 9 seconds. Years and years and years, right? You know, this doesn't come overnight.

Yeah, it is. It's the little simple things too, like you just mentioned, something as simple running, you know, we wouldn't even think about, but it's, you know, like how long is your stride? Where do you— where does— what's your launch look like? You know, where do you put your feet? How do you shape your hands, right? It is, it's these little tiny simple things. How many times are you going to the parts room?

Yep.

You know, I think one of the other things that Grandpa, he talked about this, right, is knowing how long the job should take. I remember one of the times, one of the stories he tells is he was walking around, right, and they had this stack of papers, you know, the stack of work orders that the data entry clerk needed to put in. And that stack just never seemed to get any smaller. You know, they would do the work, but it just— they would never catch up or do anything. And so what ended up happening is they were— while he was doing consulting for this company, and he started walking around, and he realized— he came around the monitor one day and the person was just sitting there playing solitaire. You know, this is back in the '90s, right? So a little, little, you know, flashback for those who remember when solitaire was all the rage. But they, you know, just sit there and play solitaire. Nowadays it's probably social media, you know, browsing the internet, Minecraft or something like that. And back then it was Minesweeper, not Minecraft, right? And but that was the whole idea is that, you know, how long should the job take and are we wasting time doing activities that are nonproductive or are we spending as much time as we can being productive? Right. And that, I think, is really what efficiency is all about. You know, is the time we're given, are we able to make the most of that time?

Well, you know, and we see all the time where people aren't leveraging efficiency. They might still have paper systems. Yeah. You know, using spreadsheets where there's automated tools that would make them, you know, quite a bit more efficient. Yeah. You know, so that's part of it is making sure you have adequate access to the tools you need.

I think this is where technology helps the most too, right? Because it does. It automates a lot of those processes, those manual processes. When Grandpa first started, it was all paper, right? Like, they didn't have any electronic systems, and so they were manually tabulating all these costs. And now we have computer systems that do all this for us, right? They're manually going and checking, how many parts do I have on the shelf? Well, now we have computer systems that can tell us inventory, they can tell us when we need to order parts, they can tell us how many parts to order, you know, what the cost is of that. They can run reports that'll tell them all this data. You know, it's all about automation, right? Technology is a huge efficiency tool.

You know, optimizing integrations, you know, making sure you're not duplicating data input.

Oh yeah.

All those things are just time wasters.

And that's one of our huge ones, you know, on the RTA side that we always push is, you know, fuel integration. How inefficient is it to enter things in twice? You know, paperless shop, that's another one. You know, have the technicians put in their own time and put in their own.

Well, the more you can take people out of the process, because people make errors, right?

Which is inefficient.

Inefficient.

Because anytime there's an error, you got to go back and fix it. Anytime you have to do something twice, yep, it's, you know, it's the exact opposite of what you want to do. So one of the things that, that I like, you know, Jeff, you have the story about some of the things that you've done in trucking, you know, about doing things twice or not being productive with time. But I've always loved Hearing about empty beds, you know, when you've got trucks coming back empty.

Yeah, you know what's the one thing I hate the most when you go somewhere is to hear, "Well, we've always done it this way." God, that just drives me up the wall.

Sacred cows.

I just want to be knocked that bullshit off. I don't want to hear that anymore, right? Because I hate it because you always hear it. I'm like, "Well, why do we do something this way?" "Well, we've always done it that way." Yeah, but why? Yes, why? You know, you ask the 5 whys. Why, why, why, why? And you can never get a good answer because it's always like, well, I was trained to do it this way. Well, how long you been here? 20 years. So in 20 years we've never changed our processes? How smart is that? We've done the same thing for 20 years and we just talked— like, we just talked about technology and how we can automate things and we're not doing that? We're not changing it? When I took over as CEO of Fleetwood, we saved a million dollars in the first year just by cutting our costs by doing things a lot more efficiently. One of the things that you mentioned, Josh, was empty beds and not filling the trucks. Well, you have to have drivers in order to make the wheels turn, in order to generate revenue. Well, why, why didn't we have any drivers? Well, there's a lot of reasons why we didn't have any drivers. One, our trucks were old. They— we had an average age of fleet of 9 years, which no one wants to drive. We weren't getting them any miles, so they weren't making any money because our dispatch processes weren't very good. Our rates were low with our customers, and so when we had our owner-operators They got a percentage of revenue, and so they didn't want to stick around because they didn't make very much money. Our recruiting department wasn't very good because of how they went about trying to recruit based on our advertising and whatever else we were doing to try and draw interest into drivers coming. So we had to look at it, at everything, and say, hey, what are we going to do to turn around this company and to get drivers into the seats? Well, we bought more trucks and lowered the age of our equipment. We taught people how to be more efficient in dispatching. We went to our customers and we got a 30% rate increase so that we were getting paid more so we could pay our drivers more. We totally changed where we were advertising and how we were talking to drivers to try and get them on board. So we looked at everything and we had to dissect how do we become more efficient with what we're already doing in order to draw people to us to be able to generate more revenue. And in a 3-year period of time, we took a company that was losing on average $5 million a year to making almost $1 million every single year. Year, and it was because we were a lot more efficient in what we were doing.

Getting more output with either the same amount of input or less input.

It was actually less input. I mean, we had to cut staff too, but, you know, so we had less people doing more, but that doing more was more efficient in the way that they were doing it.

That's exactly— Grandpa went through with the UPS, and that's how he saved them $100 million, right? That was his big claim to fame. And was doing exactly that. They were able to keep the same number of techs even though they were able to increase their fleet size. And so I think they went from like 14 trucks per tech all the way up to 20, and they didn't have to get any additional techs. So they were able to save a ton just on labor because of the efficiencies that they just let exist. You know, why did— why does that take 12 hours? It shouldn't. Why? Well, let's look at it and figure it out.

I think a good way, you know, I've always— I remember when I was at Coca-Cola years ago, they made every one of us as managers take Six Sigma classes and get involved in to make processing. And the one thing that always stuck with me is downtime, which spells the 8 wastes, right? Downtime, you know, so look for things like defects and overproducing and things that go along with that, you know, waiting. You talked about waiting, you know, for a guy at the parts room or waiting while he's talking to somebody, you know, not leveraging talent, all those different things. I mean, if you just take that, that one acronym and what they actually mean in lean, you can start finding all kinds of treasure troves to save money in your operation, you know?

So, oh yeah, well, and we'll be talking about a lot of these individual things, right? You know, diving deep into some of them.

Yeah.

And I think that's why this deserved to be a pillar of fleet success, right? I mean, this is, this is a huge part about how to be successful in your job is to become a master of efficiency, right? To become an efficient fleet, you know, and it'll make you look good in the eyes of your stakeholders, right? And drive some of that stakeholder satisfaction. You can build a culture around being an efficient fleet, right? And so there's— it just plays in with everything. I think one of the last things, you know, as I was looking at, you know, efficiency and we talked about finite resources, right? We talked about money. Money is usually always tight, right? Replacement budgets are never what they're supposed to be. Budgets are constantly getting cut. We don't have money for training, don't have money for travel. But I think the one equalizer in all this is time. It doesn't matter how rich you are, how poor you are. It doesn't matter, you know, where you're at. You get the same number of currency as everybody, right? I had a mentor of mine, Fred Krohn, who taught me. He says, you know, if I were to sit here at the beginning of the day and hand you $1,440, what would you do with it? You know, and he does this in one of his seminars and he'll go and ask you. You know, I remember him asking one gal at our conference and she's like, "Well, I'd probably go buy a purse." He's like, "Okay, what else would you do with it?" "Well, I don't know, I might get some shoes or something like that." He's like, "Okay, you know, $1,440 worth of all that stuff?" "Oh yeah, you know, I could definitely do that." "Okay, because whatever's left over you got to give back to me at the end of the day." She's like, "Oh, I'm not going to give it all back to you," right? And the next day he says, "All right, well, I'm gonna give you 1,440 today. What are you gonna do with it?" "Oh, well, now I don't know," right? And he would constantly— but here's the deal, is anytime that you have money left over, you got to give it back, right? And you don't get to save it, you don't get to keep it. It's totally perishable. And everybody's kind of hanging on, like, waiting for the drop. "What do you mean? Like, why is this, you know, why are you saying that?" He's like, the $1,440 I'm giving you, it's the number of minutes you get in a day, right? And they're totally perishable. You can't get those back. Once they're spent, they're spent, right? Like, you can't go back in time. You can't go back and recoup that money, right? You can't recoup it. Once it's spent, it's spent. You know, I think for us, you know, especially being in the position we're in, you know, is making sure that people are not wasting that time. I mean, you're listening to this podcast. We're 25 minutes into the podcast. You can't get that 25 minutes back. So what are you doing with your time to make it more valuable? Are you getting something from it? Are you investing in yourself? How are you spending your time? And is it on something worthwhile?

Exactly. That's what we're trying to do is to give you some of those little nuggets that makes this 25 to 30 minutes worthwhile to you. Oh yeah, I never thought about that. Maybe that's what I need to do to to try and become, in this case, more efficient in my operation. You know, and I think that really goes— I know that, you know, I'm a seasoned old veteran fleet manager now, but I learned a lot about what I know from people I know, just like you talked about your mentor. I mean, when I was new, I was reaching out to people all the time. I was networking with the community. I was attending conferences. I was getting education. You know, those are the kind of things that you need to do. Somebody asked me one time, what do you do consistently? Well, I read 15 to 20 minutes consistently every day about my craft. Every day. And now that I'm in, you know, doing a whole different craft that's kind of related to fleet, now I'm reading 15 to 20 minutes a day about technology. Right. So, I mean, you really need to invest that time.

And that's a great way to think about it as investment. You're spending your time on yourself. You're spending it on your family. But you look at, you know, we can always tell, you know, in business one of the things I like to do is I can always tell what's most important to the business based on where they spend their money, right? And if you think about your life, I can always tell what's most important to you based on where you spend your time, right? And, you know, one of the, one of my favorite exercises is to sit there and, all right, what did I do today, right? And you just take a little time journal. I spent 15 minutes on this. Every 15 minutes you just write down, all right, this This is something I did. And then you look at it and say, is this what I want to be doing? You know, and if not, what do I need to delegate? What do I need to delete? What do I need to defer for later, right? Or what really needs to get done right now?

That reminds me, when I was a supervisor early on, I had a guy that was always broken, asking for a raise. So I had this exercise with him. I said, well, what are you spending your money on? You know, he went through all these vices that he had. You know, and I said, well, you know, if you, if you drink one less cup of coffee a day or if you drink one less beer a day, you could spend this and do that, right? And I'm not telling people, you know, how to live their life, but I mean, sometimes you have to take inventory and you do look at that. In my case, I need to drink one less Diet Coke a day.

So, Steve, he needed that beer to deal with you, though. You can't ask him to cut that out. The coffee, maybe, but not the beer.

Well, especially if he was going to Starbucks, right? Yeah, at that point the coffee is more than the beer. So yeah, but I mean, it's true though, is the idea of, you know, we talk about this with budgets, with your money, right? Is you are in control of— when you're in a budget anyway, you control where that money goes.

Well, and Jeff talked about that too. Instead of going to Starbucks, maybe you go get your coffee at McDonald's. Yeah, right. Maybe you negotiate that contract or you leverage that pricing somehow, right?

Instead of Corona, you get a Bud Light. It's a little rough, but you can do it.

So, but this idea that, you know, you create a budget for your money, why not create a budget for your time, you know, and think about that with your day? You'll be amazed at how much more efficient you are in the day because you took your 8-hour day and chunked it out and says, you know what, there's things here that I shouldn't be doing. I'm wasting my time, right? Time wasters.

That's actually one of the things I like about our culture. You know, is right off the bat, the first thing you do is you make a little list of what you're working on today, right? Kind of gives you like a little things to do list. It kind of keeps you within the guardrails, you know. And I encourage everybody to do that, you know, before you get to work. What are you going to work on today? Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, have a game plan. Yeah. In today's day and age, when there's so many distractions due to technology, social media, everything else that goes on, it's hard to get lost, or it's easy to get lost. It's easy to get lost. So what I did, right, is I deleted Facebook because I felt myself spending way too much time. And it was stupid, right, because you're just arguing with morons anyway. So it doesn't—

so much energy wasted there.

Exactly. There's no value because you're not going to change anyone's opinion, just like they're not going to change yours. But let's fight about it. But I deleted that, and it's like, wow, I've got an hour back in my day now that I didn't have before because I was wasting it on nothing.

Something that didn't provide more output, right? Something that didn't provide value to you.

That's funny, I did the same thing. Yeah, yeah, I was feeling like I was wasting my time.

So, and it is, and then like you just put all this energy into it and then you get nothing out of it, you know. I think one of the, one of the biggest quotes that has stuck with me for years, right, and this comes back to this idea of treating time as money and and recognizing that we only get so much of it, is that you can spend time to save money, or you can spend money to save time. The rub is that you can't make one of those, right? Like, you can't just fabricate time out of thin air. And it was impactful for me is to realize, okay, there's things, you know, that I might be tripping over. I'm stressing about a decision, and I'm spending hours about how do I go out and save $50, right? Well, if I had just spent the $50, I could have gotten those hours back and done something that was worth more than $50, right? So I think as we're going through and looking at our own processes and our own lives and our own operations is, you know, finding that balance between, you know, becoming totally efficient and recognizing, you know what, I'm spending too much time to save something that's not going to generate a lot of money, right?

Well, I think that example you use is why in fleet management, we outsource. We find someone who's more efficient and effective than we might be. Maybe it's not our core, you know, our core skill in the shop, right? So we find someone that's better at it and more specialized. I was thinking, I've had my— I have this older Lincoln truck that I've had forever, and the engine blew. And so I took it to this guy. He was cheap. I was going to have him rebuild it. Well, that was back in February. I still don't have it. So should I have taken that to a Ford dealer? Probably.

And, you know, spent a little bit more money.

But you know, so I mean, you got to balance that, right? So.

All right. Well, I think that'll do it for us today. Thank you guys for listening again and look forward to hearing you next week as we talk about risk management.

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