Episode 221: The State of Fleet Management: Education, AI, and the Technician Crisis with NAFA’s CEO

This is the Fleet Success Show dedicated to helping you and your fleet succeed using the experience of fleet professionals and Hall of Fame fleet legends. The show that explores how the pillars of stakeholder satisfaction, intentional culture, resource efficiency, and risk management all combine to lead your fleet to success.

We're glad you're here. Now let's get into the show. Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Fleet Success Show. I'll be your host today, Mark Canton. The Vice President of Product and Consulting here at RTA Fleet, the Fleet Success Company. And I am joined by a good friend and colleague, Bill Shankle, the CEO of NFA Fleet Management Association. Bill, how are you?

Doing well. Thanks for having me. It's exciting to be back.

Good to have you back. We spoke about a year ago. I mean, we talk all year, but we had you on the podcast, uh, about a year ago, and I thought it was a cool one. We got great response. So we said, hey, let's do it again. Let's have him back. So really excited to have you on the show. How have things been?

They've been good. They've been busy, but good. So exciting time to be in fleet.

Well, let's just jump into— let's first remind everyone kind of who you are. And yeah, well, let's just start right there. Who are you? And tell us about your organization a little bit.

I'm Bill Shankle. I'm the CEO of NFA Fleet Management Association. We are the world's largest professional fleet Association. We have about 3,500 members, mainly throughout North America. Our membership is unique in that we have— we actually just did some numbers, so we are made up of about 41% of our membership is government, about 37% is corporate fleet managers. So almost an even split of government to corporate fleet. And then we also have supplier, vendor suppliers to the fleet industry like RTA yourself, you know, definitely members and supportive. So we really, we are the premier association for all fleets. So we don't focus on one type of fleet. Within those two categories of commercial and government, there's a whole myriad of specialty fleets in there from public safety to school bus, utility, delivery, work trucks, sales executive.

Transit.

Transit. We run the gamut.

I mean, you name it. Every sector. Yeah, it's true. Every sector, every vertical you could imagine, there's representation in NAFA for sure. Yeah. So let me jump right into it. Let's kind of start by looking at sort of the year in review. So since last time we spoke about a year ago, um, you know, you, you had some thoughts and some things that maybe you were hoping to, uh, accomplish or, or kind of help the industry with. Let's kind of look at it in reverse. What are some things you guys have been working on? You know, if there's anything in particular you want to call out as an accomplishment, you know, that sort of thing.

So we continue to work on our education offerings. So our educational offerings continue to grow, expand. Obviously, the foundation of most of what we do educationally is around our Certified Automotive Fleet Managers credential, CFM program.

Which is— pardon me for interrupting you, but I mean, if we're being honest, That's sort of the credential in our industry. There are a few others and they're great, but certainly the CAFM is sort of the standard in our industry. But please continue.

Yeah, it really is. So, and I know RTA is very supportive of that and we appreciate that. We did our job task analysis last year for that program. So, and I know I mentioned, I think last year, but we actually completed that. And that's really important because as the fleet industry continues to evolve and change, a job task analysis of fleet managers of asking the industry, what are you doing every day, helps us to ensure that we remain relevant, that we're really focused on the things that fleet managers need to know that they're doing every day. So we plan to do that again every 2 to 3 years, just because the industry's changing so rapidly. We wanna make sure that credential remains the premier credential for the industry, the certification people need. So we updated, we got that done. We updated several of our modules last year. We're updating some more this year, not significant updates, but just adding some new things in around AI, around, you know, obviously some different, so we have a vehicle fuel module. Now that vehicle fuel also needs to include energy options for vehicles and such. So we're adding in elements around that, adding in a lot around safety, new technology, things like that that really have come to pass since the last time we made those updates. So we're gonna do that on a regular basis. So that's one of the things we're most excited about because that really helped us to, determine a roadmap for what we need to do from a certification side of things as well as educationally. So, from that, we also created our Safety Fleet Certificate Program. So, now we have a professional certificate program on fleet safety that launched last July, and I'm very excited about that. So, that was something we worked on. So, I think the main focus is really we continue to focus on education, around what fleets need based on, you know, real-world data of what the fleets are doing, what the initiatives they're undertaking, what their jobs are evolving into, and really trying to stay ahead of that and keep current on that. So membership has grown significantly over the year. We've added, you know, nearly 300 members year over year from this point last year to now. So very excited about that. Over 3,500 members. So very excited about where we are on that side of things. We have more people engaged in our certificate program. We have more people engaged really throughout North America at our regional events and our local networking groups. And I know I keep saying this like a broken record, but the local networking groups, our online communities are really where the learning takes place. We do some content at those, But when our members get together and just share their stories, ask questions of each other, that's really the real learning taking place. So we love beyond our education, our credentials, our membership, our events. We love that we can really provide that community for the fleet industry.

You've touched on a few things, but number one, thank you, because I just think that's so important that you don't let the certificate be static, right? Especially now. You mentioned AI. Everyone knows when, like, they kind of know that we're not lying when we say AI is going to change the world, but I don't think most people have any, even the slightest comprehension of how real that is and how much of a change things are going to be. Um, but, but putting that aside, just the idea that, you know, hey, this is not a static thing that we taught people 60 years ago. It's changing as the job changes, it stays relevant. It also makes it so that if you have a certificate, you have a reason to keep it up to date, right? Because you're actually learning new stuff as opposed to checking off a box. So I really love that. I love that you're adding additional— I know you wanted to— I know you've added the fleet safety and you want to continue to add various certificate programs and you're filling such a— you know, people have heard me say this on the show, you know, you're filling such an important hole in our industry. I'm sorry, I'll call out the universities again. I love, you know, the university. I really do. I love higher ed. I worked in higher ed for 20 years. But the fact that there's still no degree around fleet management is just an utter travesty in this country. And you guys are really kind of keeping the boat from sinking on that, as far as I can tell. And like we said, there's a few others out there and they're great. I'm not by no means not taking anything away, but you're absolutely the leader on that. And I think the industry is indebted to you all in that regard. And you personally, and I think I've said this to you before, maybe the last one, but I'll say it again for the viewers. I think everyone I know or spoke to who's been around long enough to know, um, you know, can, can sort of remember a clear line, uh, of demarcation where NAFA really began to kind of be— become the organization that the industry needed it to be. And that line is around the time you started working there. So I know you're humble and you won't take that credit, and I know that you've been dependent and there's a lot of people who help you get there. And it's not all you, but at the same time, let's call a spade a spade. And certainly your leadership and your involvement is a major reason for that. And one of the things that, you know, we talk a lot about here, if we're being honest, as you know, we send out people, we have a bounty here at RTA where we give out people bonuses and salary rate increases for getting their CA-FM. And, and so we're very close to the program in that regard, like because people are doing it every year, multiple people. So we see the changes as they're happening and we're just so happy to, you know, to see the improvement. The program just keeps getting better. And, you know, obviously, I know there's still a lot you want to do and want to continue to keep getting it better and better and improving and improving. But we, we're really passionate about that there, right? The whole reason we exist as a company is we believe our industry is not getting that and we want to help fill that gap. And so we love partnering with you because we think you're kind of, you're kind of the, you know, you're kind of holding that up. You're the atlas, so to speak, holding up the fleet education piece. And you and the members you work with who are involved in that are, you know, the industry is indebted to you all. Frankly, I don't know another way to say it.

No, I appreciate that. And like you said, I mean, I appreciate the kind words. We have a great, great group of volunteers that run from our board to our CFM Commission, which is the, you know, kind of the overseers of that whole program, making sure it stays up to date. Um, but yeah, and we have a lot of great people involved that, that teach our content, that do office hours for people in, in the program to help them, you know, keep them, uh, motivated and engaged, because sometimes it can seem overwhelming. So we have a lot of volunteers do that as well. You mentioned your support, what your organization does and how important it is. One thing I'll throw out there that we're doing this year, and it's going to launch in the near future, for CFM individuals that have the CFM is we understand how valuable it is for the individual, what it means for them, what they learn. We're actually gonna start some research this year on what does it mean for the organization? So having a CFM employed in your fleet department or within your, if you're a supplier within your organization, what value is it adding to you? Almost an ROI for the organization. Are there some clear metrics we can show that having an educated, credentialed employee is helping the organization from a safety perspective, from a cost-saving perspective, from an efficiency perspective, whatever it may be. So, we're actually launching some research on that, which will be the first time we looked at it from that side. We know how important it is for the individual, but we think it's also important for organizations that maybe aren't investing in their people to say, this is what it means for you. This isn't just a, a nice pat on the back. It is something that's actually helping your organization. So that's something we're going to be launching in the near future.

Because no one goes to school for fleet management, chances are you were never formally trained on how to successfully lead a fleet. That's where the Fleet Success Playbook comes in. The Fleet Success Playbook is your guide to building a safe, reliable, and efficient fleet that provides exceptional service. Learn all about the 4 pillars of fleet success. Stakeholder satisfaction, intentional culture, resource efficiency, and risk management. Get nearly 100 years of combined advice on common challenges, practical solutions, actionable tips, and real examples from fleet industry experts who have been there and done that. Visit www.fleetsuccessplaybook.com to request your free copy today. That's awesome because that's, again, to see, to your point, that's one of the things we're always trying to champion is invest in your people, invest in your people. And it's shocking and disappointing, frankly, how many organizations don't or don't do so sufficiently. So I love that approach because, yeah, it's, it's not only you're helping the people, but you're helping the organizations figuring out how important it is to, you know, to get your people trained, to incentivize your people to be trained, etc., etc. That's really neat. That's a, that's a cool idea. I want to talk a little bit more. Let's just talk about a little bit about the kinds of things that, you know, NAFA offers because we're already there, right? We're talking about the CAFM and the education. You mentioned the Fleet Safety Certificate. You mentioned the regionals. And let's, you know, talk a little bit about more about that because we have all these, these regional networks. And, you know, you mentioned where a lot of the real learnings there and Again, I have to say I've seen an uptick in participation in that and the interactions with that. And if you think about it, it makes sense, right? Because like those prob— there are sort of global problems in fleet and then there are local problems in fleet, right? And that enables that like, hey, let's solve this problem together or come up with solutions for these issues, you know, that we're all feeling locally together. And then of course we can share it to other regions and so forth. There's some major learning happening there. Um, you know, you— I think you mentioned the message boards, uh, you know, maybe, maybe I'm remembering from the last conversation, but that's one of the greatest tools in my opinion of NAFA, just the ability to be able to kind of post something on, like you just said, 3,500 members in the— of, of other fleet professionals who you can ask a question to. Hey, how do you guys did this? And any recommendations around that? What didn't work? Uh, and boy, just the message boards and the emails network is worth its weight in gold as far as I can tell. Uh, what are your thoughts around there? What are some other things that, you know, maybe you want to make sure we remind people are, you know, NAFA helps with or offers?

I mean, you mentioned the regionals and the local networking groups. We had over 100 events last year in North America, uh, that, you know, that were— people came together. And the great part about those is, to your point on local, they're put together by local members that step up and say, hey, we, we want to bring education and networking to our area. So not only bringing people together, but they're, they're working with us on the content that they know is going to be needed in, in their specific region, their specific locality. So it's great, um, it's great opportunity to do that. So with over 100, we, we already have— I think we're in just starting March, I think we already have 80-some planned for this year with more to come. So we'll, we'll be well over that number, um, going in. But it's just great, the sharing, because Like I said, there's prepared content in each of those events, and there's, there's panel discussions, there's speakers, which is great. But the networking opportunities to get together and ask each other questions, or sometimes ask each other questions during those panels where the panel goes off the agenda, but, but there's some real learning— I think that's, that's something that, that we really love. And that goes to the point of the online community. So, um, the questions we get there, I mean, the We did, you know, a push last year to make sure we tried to get questions that were unanswered answered. And it's amazing, there wasn't that many that go unanswered. It's very rare that somebody posed a question that doesn't get a response from somebody. And I mean, that goes— that's, you know, shows the value of our members. Someone will respond. Yeah. So we have people doing that. So there's other groups, other professional associations where they have a lot of unanswered don't have a lot of engagement in those, those boards because, you know, the membership is not willing to share, doesn't have any experience, whatever it might be. There's proprietary information. This group is, you know, one of the first professional associations I worked in where it's, it's so willing to share. There's the expertise, the knowledge that they're willing to get out and answer. So, and even if, even if they're just saying, that's a great question, I'd love to hear more about it, and create that engagement, finding solutions together is, is really, it's really a great, great thing. So that those community boards are great. I think the our 100 Best, our Green Fleets, and now this year we're doing the Safety Award program. Those are meant as recognition programs to recognize what fleet managers are doing throughout North America, but they become a great opportunity for learning. So we build those, and we have the 100 Best Roundtable, which we had nearly an 80% uptick in attendance at 100 Best Roundtables last year, where we took them all around North America and had those. And because people are now coming to them because we're we're no longer just recognizing the 100 Best. We do recognize 100 Best, but we're having 100 Best winners come up and speak about things that they're doing. And so it's, it's not, you know, they realize, hey, I was recognized, but now we're saying there's a little work that goes into it when you recognize, because now we're going to ask you to share and, and teach and educate the industry on that. So that's been another great way that, you know, to see these winners, you know, excited that they did something, they were recognized in the 100 Best Fleets or the Greenest Fleets of America. And this year we're going safest fleets of America, but I think they're excited to not only get that recognition, but come back and say, here's all the things we learned when we went through this process. And sometimes it's not even— sometimes they're not even success stories. Sometimes they're sharing things that failed, which is, you know, an even better way to learn, saying this is what we tried and it failed, but here's how we adapted and here's what we did. So it's just— it's been a great opportunity.

If I could kind of jump on that for a second, because, you know, I think, you know, we— we advocate very strongly. We encourage people to apply. And, um, one of the things we do, and one of the sort of the reasons we tell people apply, and they say, well, but I don't know if I have time, and I don't know if I can win. And just apply. Just apply, you know. And if you lose, so what? Because it's the experience. And then we have winners come back, or, or others come back and say, the application process itself taught me so much. About what I need to be doing with my fleet. And it became sort of the standard by which I set my goals, by which I measured my execution and performance for the year, you know. So, so it's— the recognition is awesome because if we're being honest, you know, and we can have a whole conversation about fleet management professionals being underappreciated, frankly, in the world, in the industry, and everyone knows I'm super passionate about that. But as great and wonderful and needed and awesome as the recognition is, I feel like the even greater outcome is the learning from going through the application process and then having like the judges, you know, and we're grateful we have a couple of folks on the panel, but we have folks from others as well. But they're all, you know, really great people who will give you endless time, you know, for free. And the smartest fleet pros on the planet, they take advantage of those roundtables. They take it. They'll actually have you guys set up at I&E after the awards a table for them to just sit there and answer questions to people for feedback on their application. I mean, that's just amazing. So, you know, you apply, you maybe you get ranked, maybe you don't, and then you go and you say, hey, this is my fleet. Oh great, yeah. And they're ready for you. They got notes all about, hey, this is what you did great, this is what keep working on, this is where you could improve. And, and so it's such an opportunity because the judges you have, without getting into each and every one of them, These are, these are like true Hall of Fame level, you know, fleet managers. These aren't people who, you know, uh, you know, dropped an algorithm in. No, they're reviewing these applications individually in great detail, and these are folks who got the chops to make those kinds of judgments. So, and then you get to go to them and speak to them and get all of the education around how to be better. And, um, You know, one of our recent hires from last summer is Chuck Kramer. He's a multi-time winner. And I was talking to him a couple months back and he said the best part about it was, was that I got— he says, I feel like I jumped a level as a fleet manager from having, you know, done that piece. And the more and more we're able to convince people to apply, I'm telling you, every single one of them comes back to us and says that same, thank you so much for pushing me to apply. I'm so happy I did it. I learned this much, you know, There's just so much value. Thank you for bringing up that program. It's, it's, man, I got work. Go apply. It's too late for this year. The deadline is usually the end of January every year. Get yourself ready.

We're judging right now. They're in the judging process right now. So I know that's, uh, that's coming out and we're excited to announce the winners this year. So, um, but as you said, the judges, they put a— it's not— so everybody knows it's not just, uh, this is going— the, the judging process is a popularity contest or we're just gonna dump it into some software and have it spit out. They put a ton of time reviewing each of those applications and, and have a whole system that they use to rank those. And, and like you said, make comments on each. So it's not just, well, here's why we did it. And it's just as they put real comments as to why they ranked one higher than the other. And, and when you come back and, you know, come back and get your application review at I&E, or if you can't, I&E, the judges will set up a time with you. Any of the judges will set up a time to give you an hour on the phone and go through it. There's a ton of value there because they can, they can be very specific on, you scored a little lower in this category due to whatever it may be, and they have those notes. So it's, it's something that, you know, we're, we're very proud of because there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of rewards and recognition programs in the industry, and they're all great, they all have their own place, but we, we feel like there's, there's a certain science to, to the 100 Best, to the Green Fleets, and, and now to this year what we're launching, the Safety, and we build it around there. So it's it's not something that becomes a popularity contest. It's built on real data, on real facts. And if you earn, if you improve each year, it's because of what your organization did, not because there's any type of popularity or politics to it. It's based on real metrics.

Which is awesome to be able to say. That's really cool. Okay. And so since we're mentioning that, we got the I&E coming up here in a couple of weeks. It's sort of the— you mentioned all the regional and all the events. You do tons and tons of events, but this This is sort of the, the Super Bowl event of the year, if you will. Uh, let's see, you mind telling us folks about, uh, what we got going for that this year?

Absolutely. So we're going to be in Cleveland this year, um, which is great, a great town if you've not been there. So we have a lot of exciting things in Cleveland, but it is, as you said, it's kind of the most comprehensive fleet event bringing everyone together—public, private fleets, suppliers, solution providers. It's across the board, you know. You're going to have 2,200+ professionals together for 3 days learning, talking to each other, sharing. As you know, as we said, we represent every fleet, every supplier. It's— and we represent this one profession. And we really feel like those 3 days are a time for people to come together and really represent the one profession on the biggest issues on the industry's mind. So that, you know, that's what we're going to talk about there. So we All the sectors will be there, but it focuses on real-world challenges. There's some forward-looking thoughts, but really what we're about is how are people operationalizing it? So we know people have to plan for the future, have to look to the future, but we also know to get to the future, you have to fix today's problems. So what really we look at is, at I&E, is an opportunity for people to come together, look at those real-world challenges people are facing right now, whether it be the cost pressures, work issues, the workforce issues, technology adoption, decarbonization, whatever it might be. We have sessions, we have solution providers in our exhibit hall, we have sessions during our conference that address all of those. And the nice thing about it is, again, it's, it's content that's, that's created by our members for our members. So we do the call for papers. We have members rank those to say, "Yes, these are really the most relevant issues right now for today because we know we're dealing with it." And then once they rank them and we select the top ones that are the most relevant, the members go out and get other members, put those together. So, I mean, it truly is the industry talking to the industry about the biggest issues, the biggest challenges of today. And we have over 60 sessions this year So it's one of our largest from a content perspective of recent years. So it should be very exciting. We worked on, you know, kind of highlighting the tracks from, from an entry-level side to a more experienced level. So, so the attendees know which session will best fit their needs. We categorize them by topic, by types of fleet the best we can. And then there's some that just, you know, are all-encompassing. There's some that just fit everybody. So very excited for the content that's put together this year. And again, that's um, that's a testament to our members that recommend and then put together this great content.

Yeah, that sounds great. So at this point, is there space left still, uh, at least at the time that we're— there is— and all full disclosure, right, we're recording obviously in advance of the event, so, uh, and they might be seeing it a little bit after we were— it's not— they're seeing it tomorrow, right? So, but as of today, uh, do you think this— is this— is there room or are we all sold out at this point?

We still, still register, so you go to nafa institute.org, and you can register today. We, you know, we recommend— we have different options there. You can— I mean, even if you, if you say I can just get in for a day, you can, you can just get to the exhibit hall, walk in the exhibit hall. We have registration for that, or you can take part in the full conference. We do have— so in your exhibit hall, we're going to have over 200 manufacturers, upfitters, software providers, other suppliers that are going to be there. You know, there's live demonstrations One thing exciting about this year too, if people— I know a big issue is the technician challenges, technician shortages. So we're introducing this year the NAFAA Garage, which is focused on training for technicians, solution providers focused for technicians. We, we think it's important not only for our fleet manager to be able to get their technicians trained, but also think it's great for the technicians to come out get that training, but also see, to the point about what we talked about earlier, see fleet as a career option for them. If they want to move past that technician side of things, we build a whole technician track at I&E to get them training, but also so they can start talking to other fleet managers, other technicians, and look at fleet as a real career path for them as they continue to grow, as they continue to get trained. So, we're excited about that.

So I'm just, it's something we've been talking about for so long is getting that technician training, getting that career path in place. So I just really love to hear that. I didn't know that you were, you were already executing that on this year. So, um, all right, cool. So you, you, you gave us the website, you got the floor there. You're going to have tons of speakers. Obviously we'll be there. Uh, so we'll, we'll be, we'll be looking forward. Hopefully people can stop by our booth and we'll be, we come out in force. So we'll be at the sessions. We'll be speaking up. We're got a couple of speakers as well. Uh, so if you're going to be at NAFAA, definitely, um, hit us up. And hopefully my editors can put our booth number on the side of the screen right now, uh, so this way you can come find us. Um, okay, so I think that though dovetails us, or segues maybe is the better word, uh, real well into the next topic I wanted to hit you, which is like, let's now, let's look at the year to come. Okay, you talked about, you know, the technician shortage. Many of the issues that we're facing are really the same issues as a year ago. I think some things have changed. Maybe the heat around certain things has moved up or moved down. What are you seeing as sort of, you know, or hearing from members as sort of like the hot button, you know, the hot topics, the hot— the key issues for the year? And what issues that are maybe you guys, you know, trying to tackle this year, whether it's the trainings you just mentioned, obviously, but Maybe it's, you know, other training or maybe it's advocacy or, you know, those sorts of things. Talk to me about what you're seeing the issues are and then what maybe plans, what do you perceive to or what's the roadmap for the year for NAFA, if that makes sense?

I mean, one of the big concerns of our members is, continues to be the costs. So obviously, you know, vehicle pricing, maintenance costs, everything's going up now. Now, you know, in the recent time when now fuel costs are There's a lot of unknowns here. So we, you know, we're trying to, to work with members on, you know, ways to, to prepare for that, you know, and there's only so much you can do to prepare for that. So it really comes down to running an efficient fleet and as efficient as you can to be, to be prepared from a maintenance side of things, from a fuel cost, those types of things. So, so that's a big thing. But, you know, in the midst of this cost, as you said, the big shift is towards technology. So the predictive maintenance, artificial intelligence, integrated data platforms, all these things are things that we're going to start creating some, some educational offerings around to just help people to understand where they need to be if they're just in a starting process, understanding the importance of, of using these tools, because again, they are tools that, as you said, they're going to, they're going to reshape the industry. You know, to what level is, is a little bit unknown right now, but they are going to reshape the industry. So we want to make sure our members are really prepared in this somewhat of a revolution in what the technology will be. So we have some programs we're working on with some of our education right now on understanding AI, launching AI, looking at things like predictive maintenance, those types of things. Also working with other groups to ensure that our members know there's other groups they can go to. So we look, we're expanding some of our, Essentially, other groups can, can get CFM credits by training that because, you know, we're, we're experts. We can, we can talk about the baseline, but there's a lot of groups in the technology space, RTA for example. So there's groups that really are in this every day, so they can help get our members. So what we're trying to do is, you know, work with groups like yourself and other groups to say, hey, we can, um, you know, show us the education, you know, we somewhat, you know, go through it, make sure it meets the requirements. But then, yeah, we encourage our members to go to all you to get CFM credits for that if that's something you're interested in and just go and get that learning. Because I think, you know, one of the big things that we look at, we're somewhat agnostic in what the solutions will be, but we want to make sure everybody understands the best way to integrate all solutions into their fleet. So one of the, one of the most important things we talk about is policy and culture. So we do— we did several policy updates and we don't necessarily write your policy for you, but we teach you on what should be in a good policy. And so whatever source you use in these changing times, we want to make sure we're giving you that baseline of education to understand. Here's the key things I need to know. Here's the key things I need to do to prepare my fleet for it. And then to really institutionalize that by creating some really good policies to ensure rapid change doesn't upset your culture, your current management systems, whatever it might be, to put policies in place. So as you're changing, going through that change management, that things are managed properly. So those are some of the key things we're working through in that process. From an advocacy side, I mean, we continue to work on a state level. We do have several, we're calling them fleet advisory bills on some state levels that we're working with our advocacy team. Our government affairs committee is working to get some fleet advisory panels put into various state legislatures. And what that means is as states start looking at whether they be sustainable regulations related to to emissions or whether they be legislation around data privacy, whatever that might be, that we have a panel of fleet professionals in each of those states that gets a chance to comment on those regulations, on those legislations before they go into effect. Because a lot of times what you find is, you know, the people think of, of some of these legislations around just the consumer side of things, but not necessarily the fleets. So we want to make sure that they go to fleets first. So it's not— they're not putting in regulations on a state level particularly that our fleets can't, can't commit to just because it's, it's, it's a big lift. So, so we think that's an important advocacy piece of something we're doing this year. And we've had success in a few states getting that getting some of those conversations going. We're excited about that. Again, that's going to rely on the knowledge and the interactions of our members in those states. So that's something we'll be putting back out to our members as we build those up and getting them on those advisory panels. We think that's an important aspect to ensure we have a seat at the table. So we have our members' voices are part of these discussions before things become become regulation.

So you hit the nail on the head, and we've seen that, right? We've seen— and I'm not calling anyone or anything out, uh, particularly. I mean, folks in comments want us to name some of the ones we've talked in the past, but we've seen the unintended consequence, to your point, of things that were really thought through, through the consumer lens. Or even if some fleet consideration was made, it was made through a homogeneous advocational fleets, you know, like maybe last mile delivery, you know, you know, and, and the impact that that has on, um, you know, state and local government fleets or other non-profit is just— they're, they're left holding the bag trying to meet mandates that they literally are incapable of meeting, uh, through no fault of their own. Um, and so the well-intention of the mandate or the regulation that goes into place, um, gets undermined, right? Because of that lack of practical know-how being built into it, to your point.

So, and I think that there's been a lot of learning because some of those, as you know, and we don't have to get in the name, but some of those things that came up, I think a lot of the, particularly on a state level, there was a lot of learning. And now they are much more open to say, we need to talk to some experts before we do things. And so So the fact that they, you know, working with NFA and our 3,500 members is a great, you know, win for, well, for the organization, but for the industry as a whole that now, you know, people realize they need to talk to us because like you said, it's—

And for the states and their communities. Pardon me for interrupting you, Bill, but it's a win for them too. It's for them, yeah.

And it's not a one-size-fits-all. And that's why I think everybody's realizing now it's when you do this, there are so many different, like we said, we're every fleet, we represent every fleet. There's a lot of commonality there, but there's, there's a lot of uniqueness. So it's, it's a, it's a very, you know, unique industry in that way.

Any other hot button, hot button topics that you want to call out in particular that you guys are thinking about this year?

I, you know, I think one thing that is, is something we're looking at, and it's— I think it's important to mention, and it's not something that, you know, is pushing, pushing NAPA as much, but we're really trying to collaborate as much as we can because, you know, we, uh, we talked about what we do. We have a lot of great resources. We have a lot of great education credentials, we can help on the advocacy level. We have 3,500 members that can connect. But there's, there's several other organizations out there that are doing some really good things as well. So, and I know I think we might have touched on this last year too, but the one thing about, you know, we want to make sure with NAF and our board's very cognizant of this is that, you know, this isn't us saying that we're right about everything, that we know everything. So we, we're really looking to collaborate and partner with other organizations throughout 2026. So I think you'll You'll hear more about that as, as the year evolves and goes on and really trying to make some strong partnerships, collaborations, because we do think there is some strength in bringing the expertise, the know-how, the knowledge of multiple groups together. And when we have a great base of 3,500 members, there's a lot of, a lot of other smaller groups, some bigger groups that, that touch on different people or have a unique niche. That I think, you know, the more we can work together with them, the stronger it is for the whole industry. So while it's not necessarily something that's trying to— we're not trying to do this to benefit NAFA per se, but we're trying to really do this to raise up everybody in the industry. So I think that's a big push you're going to see in 2026, where we continue to work on these collaborations, whether it be joining together on an advocacy issue or working together to push education out to certain groups, or just really trying to bring two different memberships together to network better. I think that's something we're really going to focus on this coming year.

From an industry perspective, and you've heard me say this, and our audience has heard me say this, but especially in terms of the relevance of to what we mean to society— and I don't mean this to be conceited— but when you think about fleet fleet. Nothing happens without it. We make the world go round. The police officer doesn't get to the home where there's an emergency, the fire doesn't get put out, the person in mental crisis, the Amazon package doesn't get delivered, the food doesn't get to the grocery store. I mean, we can go on and on and on and on. The fleet industry literally makes the world go down. And relative to that, I would argue we are the most under-resourced industry on the planet. And so anything you can do to, so to your point about collaboration, guys, there's limited resources. There's, you know, limited time. Most of this work is done by volunteers and volunteerism is key, as you pointed out in these other organizations, it's the same. And, you know, let's just, you know, you know, 4 hands can lift a lot more weight than, than 2 hands, you know? And, and so collaboration is key in our industry. It's the only way we make progress. It's the only way we fix the technician crisis. It's the only way we're ready for the AI revolution. It's the only way we create career paths for people. And so I think of all the things you're doing, and they're all important, that might be the most important thing in my mind. So I appreciate you doing that, Bill. It is a pleasure to have you on. I'm looking forward to seeing you at, at I&E in a few weeks here. I hope you'll agree to come on again and do this next year, or maybe even before next year. Maybe we do. A pre and a post game this year. Let me— we'll check that out. Um, maybe we even get you on at NAFSA this year, Kelly. What do you think, Bill? Are you going to be too busy, or you think you can record?

I can find some time, I'm sure.

I'm going to put some pressure on you. I won't hold you to it though, don't worry. Um, but it's a pleasure. Um, you know, give us again, if you don't mind, give us the website. Um, tell us if folks want to be involved, you know, uh, if there's anything in particular that they need to know about that. Uh, you know, give, give us all that information. Our folks will also flash it on the screen. Um, but you know, and by the way, we tell everyone, if you're new to the industry, first thing you do is you go register for NAF. But yeah, give us the info, please.

If you want to get to I&E, go to nafainstitute.org, uh, register for that. We have plenty, you know, we have opportunities for you to get involved there as well. If you just want to get involved in NAF or learn more about NAF or CFM programs, Volunteer. We talked about how important volunteerism— we can definitely use people in a lot of different roles. Um, that— just go to nafa.org. But looking forward to seeing as many people as we can in Cleveland. It's going to be a great event. Um, we have a lot of great education and also a lot of fun. We're going to be at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame one night too, without a reception, so that'll be fun. Awesome.

Do you happen to know, are the Indians in town?

I don't know, I have to look that up. I should have checked that before this.

It's a nice ballpark. I haven't been there in many years, but I'm going to look that up too. Maybe, maybe we'll catch an Indian game while we're at it. But yeah, with that, we're going to call it a show. If you liked our show, if you have any comments or questions for Bill or I, we can obviously reach out. If you want to make suggestions about the next show topic or the next interview, please email us at podcast@rtafleet.com. And we would love to hear your feedback. If you have any interest in fleet management information software, software and you'd like to learn about our product, please visit us, visit us at rtafleet.com. Or if you have interest in any of our consulting or advisory services, fleetconsulting.com. Go ahead and hit us up. With that, Bill, I'm going to thank you once more. It was an absolute pleasure. And that'll be all for today, folks. I hope you enjoyed the show. Have a good one. We hope you enjoyed the show. If you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on LinkedIn, in or leave a review.

Want to learn more about our fleet management software Fleet 360? Check us out at rtafleet.com. If you want to learn more about having your fleet evaluated by our consulting team, go to fleetconsulting.com.