Episode 021: Michael Braband with Fleet Management 101

Welcome to the Fleet Success Show, a podcast dedicated to talking about the fundamentals, standards, and best practices that empower today's fleets to achieve fleet success. Let's get into the show. All right.

Welcome back for another episode of the Fleet Success Show. Glad to have everybody on board again. It's been quite a fun ride for us.

Yeah, so great.

Uh, joining me today, I've got, uh, again, our co-host Steve Salzgiver. How you doing?

Good, very good.

And we've got a very special guest coming on, is, uh, Michael Braband. How are you doing, sir?

I'm doing great, thank you. I'm very happy to be here. Thanks for having me on.

All right. Hey, so it's been a lot of fun having you on board. You've been, uh, you know, we've been talking back and forth for the last, uh, you know, feels like several months, uh, going back, but It was awesome meeting you at NAPA a couple weeks ago and, you know, seeing what you have going on. So, first, before we get started, you know, just for our listeners, give us a little rundown who you are. What's the Michael Braband story?

Yeah, I'm Mike Braband. I've been in the fleet industry my whole career. So, I started off in the rental and then I went to the leasing and then I'm currently in the public transportation part of fleet. But I've actually been doing this my whole life. And my dad actually was a bus driver before I was born in Wilmette, Illinois. And he actually— my mom, the bus route and actually proposed to my mom on the same bus route that he met her on. And after that, he stayed with the same company his whole career. He just retired a couple years ago. And so, so pace of everything about me has kind of been about public transportation and fleet management. So it's really kind of been an exciting journey for me over the last how many years. And I am also very excited to, you know, talk to you guys about just fleet management in general. I'm really excited to see where the conversation goes. Honestly, it can go so many different ways. So thanks again for having me on.

Yeah, so we bring you in, we kind of, you know, talk through a little bit, you know, and the conversation really just— it can go a million different directions, which is what makes it fun. But I like something you said in there about how you're born into it, you know, like you said that, I'm like, hey, that sounds like me because it's, uh, you know, like my grandfather, that's exactly how he did it, right? He was running UPS for a long time, then my dad was running this company, and I was like, I don't know what else I would do. I was born into doing this. It's So it's fun to find other people out there that are like, I was born for this. You don't get that in fleet management. I know, Steve, you got into fleet management and it was—

I wasn't born into it like you guys, but there was a time in my life where I had this epiphany and said, well, this is exactly where I need to be. And a lot of that, my story is— you actually brought me back for a minute, Mike, when you talked about bus driving. I did that for about 5 years for Utah Transit Authority. And it's amazing what happens on those bus routes. You get to know everybody every day and you become this little collective group of people, you know, every day on the bus and especially during rush hour. So I could totally see how your dad could meet your mother and, you know, that connection. But yeah, I was, I was sitting in my office one day in 2005 as a fleet manager and, and my mother sent me this old 16mm, 8mm tape. I don't even know what they were, those old home movies.

Okay.

And she had put it on a VHS tape. And so I slapped it in there and it was me about 2 years old walking around a little swimming pool with a blankie on my, on my shoulder, lining up cars. And I sat there and looked at that and thought, oh my gosh, I've been doing this, you know? And then it took me back to when my dad used to take me down to Little America down in Salt Lake City when I was a little kid. And he'd bet all the, his friends that Steve could tell you what kind of car that is, that kind of car that is. And so I'd sit there as a little 5-year-old. He'd be collecting money, you know, that's a Studebaker and that's a That's a Ford. So ultimately, after I saw that video, I thought, you know, I think I was born to be this. It's fate. It's like kismet here, you know?

You can just see little Steve Saltzgiver getting his little Hot Wheels cars ready for rollout, you know, as we're getting the bus lot ready. So it's kind of fun how we all kind of stumble into it sometimes, stumble into this career.

I actually watch one of my grandkids doing the same thing now, and I'm going, hmm.

Hey, you got to start grooming that up. You know, there's potential there. You know, he's got it in his genes. So I'll hire him. So one of the things that really stood out to us, right, is, you know, you've been in fleet management, you've been doing this, you know, you work at a transit company right now, transportation company. But one of the other things you've got going is you have this YouTube channel. Tell us a little bit about the YouTube channel and and why our listeners should be checking out this YouTube channel, what it's about, how it got started.

Yeah, actually, uh, so it was about 3 months ago I got started with it, and it was, uh, right around the time that I was getting into the possibility of being talking at NAFIAE, uh, in front of— and for the 100 best fleets in North America. And I was noticing that no one really knew who I was, really. Um, and so I started making these YouTube channels to kind of get people's attention. But, you know, It started off by me just wanting to share some knowledge and being able to teach, which I really like to do. But then all of a sudden it started, you know, becoming something like I could actually help people by bringing information to them and actually show them that there's an easy, fun way of actually learning about fleet management. And one of the things that I'm kind of worried about in the fleet industry over the next couple years is that we're not gonna get the people that we need to do all the things that we need to do. We're pretty much required to basically change how everything is done, how everything I've learned about fleet management has to change. And in order to do that, we need to have everybody that's been in industry forever. And we need to get all the new people coming out of college, all the people that are going to be inventing the ways that we could actually change and do all these things that we're supposed to do and that we're required to do by being good at our jobs. So I was trying to find ways that I could connect with people that maybe are in college or are maybe looking at getting a job and they're not really used to going out to go to job fairs or to do things like that. So I figured if I can give them an easy way of actually learning in 2 minutes and they take 2 things out of it, and one of those things is maybe I should do fleet management, I think it's successful. And it really kind of shows that it just takes a little bit of, you know, time and effort. My videos aren't perfect, and half of it is just me, you know, being doing bloopers to make fun of myself. But I think ultimately what it tries to do is just tries to reach out to people. I've made a commitment that I'll do— I'll basically communicate any way, shape, or form at any time, just to be able to get anything out that'll help anybody that's trying to be in fleet and maybe just trying to do something that they've never done before. So that's kind of how it started. And then it's kind of what it's gone through now is I've been finding that people, when I'm offering help, they're actually accepting it. And I think that's a big humbling experience for a lot of different people. I know I have a hard time doing it. And there's one person in particular that reached out to me and saw my first video and basically my LinkedIn post was, you know, I'm doing this to get out of my comfort zone. And he reached out to me and his name is Andrew Root and he's currently with the US Army. He's a Chief Warrant Officer 3. So he does a very great job with our maintenance vehicles in the US Army. And he reached out to me and said that he appreciated the fact that I was trying to do something and get out of my comfort zone because that's basically what he's trying to do right now going into civilian life. One of the great things about his story and relatable right now is that the reason why he wants to defend our country is because of 9/11, and he left maybe within 2 months of that happening. So he did that for us. The least that I could do is give him options. He's one of the smartest guys I've ever met. He's way more technical than I will ever be, and it's one of those humbling experiences. Like, I don't know, like, how am I going to help him? I know he's currently going to be retiring in Georgia, and I don't know anybody in Georgia. But through this experience, I was able to meet two people running fleets in counties that are within a few feet, you know, a few miles of him. So I'm hoping that all things work out. But I think just in general, I created those YouTube videos to kind of just help people and just spread a quick word about how easy fleet management can be. I mean, I guess you guys can both agree it's not rocket science. It's pretty simple. You follow a few things and you keep doing them over and over and over again, and you're probably going to be successful. So So I think that's why I created the channel. And it's kind of fun to do anyways. My kids think that I'm a YouTube star, but not really, you know? So it's one of those things where they watch it and then they don't watch it anymore, you know? So I've actually made different movies and like things for them. So like I'll, you know, make a video about how to make a peanut butter sandwich, or I'll make a video about how to take care of a bearded dragon, like things like that that maybe relate to different people and, you know, gets people to watch some of the videos.

I love the, uh, you know, just go out and do it, right? Like, it's not perfect, it doesn't have to be perfect, but like you just have this attitude of, hey, I'm not going to sit back and wait for it to come, or, ah, it's just not ready yet. And, you know, because we talk about this all the time, one of the guys I follow is Casey Graham, and he's the CEO of a payment recovery solution, like a non-SaaS in a SaaS environment kind of weird, weird guy, but Um, he's all about engagement on LinkedIn, and so he has all these things about, you know, just go out there and post, and like, that's how you grow your network and grow your influence. But the big thing is, is just post, and you get stuck in this mindset of, well, I don't really know what to post about, nobody really wants to listen to me. But then you start changing people's lives because like even the little bit of tidbits that you have— and it's awesome to see that you're doing this in the YouTube channel— is that just by getting off on the couch and just by entering it, and even if it's 2 minutes and the production quality is terrible, which yours is not, but even if it were, it would be, you know, it's still engaging and it's still making an impact, right? And so I think it's awesome that you've done that. And, you know, Andrew, you know, our guy that's, you know, the US warrant officer, to be able to do that and find a network, that's what I love about this industry is It's very collegial. Yeah. Other industries are super adversarial, but I feel like fleet, and I think that's one of the reasons why once people get into fleet, they don't like to leave it, is because it is so collegial.

Yeah. I've known people in every walk of life in fleet. They've been fleet managers and they jump over to the supplier side and they come back. And I've always said as I've gone through fleet is I never want to upset anybody or because tomorrow they could be my boss, you know. So it's the kind of thing, you don't ever want to step on people, you know, uh, their step on their fingers as they're going up the rung either way at this point.

But yeah, but I love that, you know, you were able to reach out, you found a couple people in, in Georgia. I know we've got contacts in Georgia, and so that's something that we'll totally throw our hat in and say, hey, awesome, right?

See, that's why I'm doing this.

That's what the industry is all about. It's just awesome. Like, hey, I I actually know a few people out in Cobb County and some of those places out there, DeKalb. And so being able to reach out to some of those guys. And now, you spoke at NAVA. I saw you speak at NAVA, and that was awesome. I thought you did a great job there.

Thank you.

Did you go through the 100 Best Fleets process as part of this?

Yeah, so I tried the first 2 years at my current location. I tried, and I failed. I didn't make it. And so it was a big thing where I really wanted to succeed. And so the last 4 years we have made it. And so we were kind of, you know, after talking to Tom Johnson who created the award, he kind of was like, "Hey, maybe you should come out and speak." And, you know, it kind of came from there. And he's like, "You ever done that before?" And I'm like, "Absolutely not. Like, why would I? I mean, come on." Like, you know, but it was probably one of the most memorable experiences I've had so far in my career is just going up there, Right before that, I mean, you guys were there, you know that it was raining cats and dogs, right? It was just like, you know, a police officer followed like past us with a boat in the back. And I'm like, this is not good, you know? But right before that, I actually was coming down the stairs at the Omni Hotel and I biffed it all the way down the stairs. So I sprayed my ankle. It was so embarrassing. And one of the panelists there, Alex, he was with me and like, he was like, you know, he was just being polite. He didn't laugh or anything, right?

But he ended up getting an Uber.

So we hopped in. I was on adrenaline, right? And it wasn't until like right before I got on stage when I went up the stairs and I was like, yeah, that's not right. You know? But you know, the adrenaline hits and then you're like, you know what, these people are here to listen to me, you know, like I gotta do something, you know? And you know, I was the most, you know, green, newest person in the public speaking out of all of them because they're extremely well known and they have great careers and everything. And it's like, me being up there with them and them being so nice and dealing with my nervousness beforehand, like, it meant a lot. Like, it really did. I think people make a big difference in those situations, and it was just them being themselves. Like, I think they— if I would have fell on my face or if I would have like goofed up, I think they would have just walked off or they would have made a scene, you know. So I think it was just a cool experience. I knew that I wasn't gonna, you know, do horrible. I practiced so much, and I think I spent half the I&E just going to the expo hall and talking to myself on that stage just because it was important to me, you know, like, I'm here, people don't know me, this is what one of my goals of what I want to accomplish. I got a brand new suit, you know, I thought it was black but it's blue, doesn't matter, you know, so let's rock and roll. And, you know, it went well. I mean, I think the most thing, the biggest thing that I'm proud of in the whole experience is that I messed up in one of the questions and I was just rambling And I snapped out of it. And I don't know if you remember, but I gave a fist bump to Al, who saved me in that. And he stopped everything. And once he did, I was able to compose myself, remember what I was going to say. But I was— I don't know what I was talking about. It was just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You know, it gets going.

Oh, I will go run through a wall right now. I'm just ready. You know, what was I talking about?

I don't care.

Let's go do it, right? I was like, these chairs behind me, I'm just gonna throw them into the crowd, you know? Like, I was just so excited, you know? And my wife was there, which she supported me. She came down So it was one of those experiences where I was like, you know what, she's here and I'm not gonna fail. But, you know, I'm nervous and usually I have composure and I don't show any kind of emotion, but in this situation I couldn't stop talking about it. And I'm sure it was annoying to everybody that was about to get on stage, but I'm just like, you know. Another person that made a big difference was Paul J. Long. He actually— he is— he actually put me aside like right before and he's like, Just give me your spiel. Just give me right away, just like random, just do it right now. And I just rambled it off. He's like, that's perfect. You should just do that. Like, what are you talking about? Why are you nervous? And I'm like, you know what? You saying that, that means I'm good. And I kind of snapped out of it a little bit. And it was a really good experience. I think everybody should do it in their career just because I think it sets you apart because once you get over that fear, like the next time I do that, I'm gonna be looking forward to it. I'm not gonna be nervous. Like, I'm gonna want to do better than I did this past time.

Public speaking, like, akin to death, is a fear people have.

Yeah, people are above that.

Yeah, it's because it's crazy.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I think one of the big things is to, like you said, just do it, right? See what happens. And even if you fall on your face, just do it again, right? Get back on the horse. Um, you know, I, I think I mentioned it in LinkedIn post a long time ago. There's this idea of like, you ever go cliff jumping at all, Mike?

No, but I will.

Okay, so there's a spot up here in Arizona, we call it Christopher Creek. It's probably, it's just a little outside Payson, and, um, you know, there's some 40 or 50-foot cliffs as the stream comes down these waterfalls, and the water's pretty chilly. But I talked about this moment, right? You get up on the cliff, and just before you start, you're just kind of like frozen. And it's that fear of like the unknown. Well, I don't know what this is going to feel like. I don't know if I'm going to slip, and I don't want to hit some rocks underneath me. Will I get clear of the rocks? Will I, you know, is it going to hurt? Will I break my leg? Who knows? Like, you start running through this, this stuff, and you get all these tapes running, right? It's the same thing. You're sitting there in backstage, you're like, oh my gosh, what if I say this? What happens if this— what if I call Al the wrong name? Or I, you know, I Like Paul, the whole opening keynote was calling somebody else Al and it wasn't even Al, it was some other guy. He just totally played it off, lived it down, figured out a way around it. But we talk about that moment when you're on the cliff and then you finally are just like, "All right, I got to get out of my head and I'm just going to do it." And you don't count down or anything, you just take a step. And that's how you get over that fear is you just take a step and you just step off. And then all of a sudden gravity takes over and there's— you're done, right? Like it just, it goes and you're like, okay. And then the next one comes up and now you have more confidence, you just walk off. You know, we had, we were just, we went cliff jumping last week, my wife and I. And same thing, you know, we were up on a platform with a couple of friends and, you know, my wife just goes off and then I'm right behind her and I'm like, all right, well I could stand up here and hold on to the rails and psych myself out, or I can just walk off right now. So I just said, I'm not gonna do it. So I just ran off. I'm like, that's it, I'm just running. I don't care if we're just running, you know. It was probably about a 35-foot jump.

Uh, were you screaming?

Huh?

Were you screaming?

Oh no, like, it's totally fun, right? Like, you go down and then the whole thing is just, you know, make sure you plug your nose because otherwise, man, that water comes right up. But the, um, but then we've had a couple friends who are right behind us and They grabbed the handrails, locked in, psyched themselves out, took another 5 minutes for them to make the jump, you know. And it was like, all right, come on, you could do this, don't think about it, do it, you know. So public speaking, posting a YouTube video, like, you're going through a lot of growth right here. I'm proud of you.

I'm trying. And podcast. I mean, this is serious. I mean, this is the most— yeah, it all came to this, honestly. So I can just stop doing anything at this point, you know.

I've always found that you are your own worst critic.

Yep.

Most people don't ever notice the things that you notice. So keep that in mind.

Absolutely. Every time I send out a YouTube video or I do a post or anything like that, I just— it is what it is, you know. I've got in that mindset where if I have a good message and I've already edited it for 13 hours, like, it's as good as it's gonna get, you know. So, you know, I think it's something I've learned just because If you don't put yourself out there, like you said, like, you're never going to go anywhere and you're just going to stay in the same point and you're just going to be frustrated. And it's just, there's no point to that anymore. Life's too short. I think we all learned that from the pandemic. I think you, we've all gotten better as people just because we care about people more. We want to ever be around us to succeed more. I mean, I think it's just in general, it's a good place to be. I mean, I enjoy being around people more now than I did before. I love being at the NAF I&E. I mean, everybody was so supportive and everybody was just kind of excited. There was that feeling that you were doing something special, you're part of something special. And I don't know if you saw, but afterwards they actually said that we were the first group to come to Pittsburgh. And I thought, like, that is a big deal. I mean, I— they waited for us, you know, for 18 months for us to come down there and party. So it was a good time.

That was actually one of my biggest takeaways, is just getting out again, you know. Yeah, so bad the last couple years.

I remember going to a Ramsey event and they had them down at Dallas Cowboys Stadium, kind of like we did at Pittsburgh Stadium, at the Steelers Stadium. And they said this is the first time these guys have been able to work since last year, you know. So you're helping them get back on their feet and you're helping them get back to work. So thank you for doing that, you know, for being a part of this. And it was cool.

So that's very cool.

Um, shoot, there's something else that you said that I really— oh, so talking about, you know, like fleet managers and kind of getting out of their comfort comfort zone. I think the other thing that by doing channels like this, by doing the Fleet Management 101, uh, you know, the YouTube channel, getting up and doing public speaking, that you, you're putting yourself out there, but you're also, you're able to help more people because you're introducing yourself. You're growing your network through this stuff. Um, and you know, this guy reaches out to you and you're like, shoot, well, I have no idea. But you know somebody, and that person knows 5 other people. And then because you spoke at at NAAFA, now you've got a little bit more credibility. And so you go connect with them on LinkedIn, shoot them a message. Hey, you know, I saw we were both at NAAFA 2021. I don't know if you remember me, but I was up on stage talking about Best 100 Fleets. I see you're in Georgia. I've got a favor to ask, you know, do you have any openings? Do you have any of this? And suddenly it just opens up this world, you know, because you're willing to put yourself out there. And I think the genuineness is what really people, it's what resonates with people. It's just that being genuine and real.

I actually spoke at Weber State College one year to a bunch of graduating automotive students.

Yeah.

After that, I went back to my office and I got this email from one of the students that was there. He said, hey, do you have any openings? And I said, no, I don't have anything. And he just kept bugging me and bugging me. He finally showed up to my office one day. What about now? You got any openings? You know, and it was, By the time I went through all that, I thought, you know what, this guy's got a lot of spunk. I'm going to hire him. I hired him as an intern. And then when I finally, I left and he was still at the place where I hired him, he became like the assistant manager. I mean, it just, I mean, you never know. I mean, you know, with the way the networking works and, you know, I mean, you have to get out there and it's all, it's all on you. I always see these people, I can't get a job. What have you done? I filled out a resume. Well, what else have you done? I mean, there's more to it than that, right? So, and we're really creative here on our resumes. You know, we're trying to find that perfect person.

Our job ads?

Yeah, our job ads, yeah. So I saw one though the other day that was really good. Guy put a LinkedIn poll on there. I am your next business analyst. And it said yes, 90%, and then no, You're going to fire me. And they actually hired the guy. I thought it was pretty cool.

Yeah, that's funny.

Yeah.

So, you know, Mike, I know one of the things that you're passionate about, you're constantly thinking about looking at what's going to impact the industry, you know, as a whole fleet managers, if you had advice for fleet managers coming up. But one of the things that you've been thinking about or is on your mind is sustainability. Yeah. What do you see? Like, where is that coming in and you know, we talk about electrification, we talk about renewable energy, renewable fuels. What do you, you know, give me some of your thoughts on that, where you're at with that.

Yeah, I mean, I think like everybody else, I really want EBVs and EVs to really happen very soon. I just think that the infrastructure is not there. And I think we're talking about another 5 to 10 years before we're at the point where everybody can drive around in their electric cars that don't make any sound, you know. I mean, I think it's gonna be a while before we can actually figure out how to work together. I think everybody's kind of competing right now. I really appreciate everybody taking the time to do these kind of samples, you know, to see how things are in different areas of the country. I think we're going to find an issue with just getting enough money into certain places and then spread it out throughout the whole country, because I think it's really kind of useless if we don't have to have the infrastructure everywhere. So if I'm going to vacation in Utah, I should be able to, no problem, you know, or I'm gonna have to rent an ice, you know, an ice truck or something, you know, and get there. So I'm looking for everybody to kind of work together and to start in small kind of different steps. I think, uh, you know, I think different alternative fuels are a good bridge right now to get us there, but there's still infrastructure problems with that too. So I'm really kind of hoping that we get all the money we possibly can from the government, and then they subsidize a lot of these extra costs for, you know, the cost of electric vehicles are quite a bit more. And they can allow us to get in a position where it'd be silly for me to get a gas Jeep. Now I'm going to have to get an electric Jeep just because that's what's out there and it's better for all these different reasons. So I really want it to work out quickly, but I think everybody has to be realistic. I think everybody right now is trying to yell as loud as they can if they want electric vehicles, but they don't care how and they're just expecting someone to give them the money to make them in the position where they have to do it. I think we're very far away, and far away is for me is like tomorrow, we're still not there. I'm hoping that in the next 3 to 5 years that we get on this plan, and it's almost like this is the exact way you have to implement EVs, and this is the exact way, or if you don't, it's going to fail. This is proven. This is exactly how much money you need. This is how you get these chargers, which are going to be this certain amount. You know, I just think everything's got to be extremely easy or no one's going to get on board. And then we're going to be back in a position where we're trying to make diesel the best option again. And I just don't want that to ever happen again.

I've been saying the same thing you just said since 1993 when I got my first electric vehicle. But this is a little trendsetter. It's been moving so slow, you know, because, you know, I think the price of gas gas really fluctuating caused a lot of that. But we need to get to the point where the market drives it, not the government. And I think when that happens, then, you know, we'll start getting the infrastructure and everything. It's like we're doing things backwards, that chicken and egg thing. You know, you can't get an electric vehicle out there, get the infrastructure. We can't put it by the infrastructure. You have electric vehicles, you know, and somebody's going to have to come up with some geographical solution or something that we Okay, we're gonna start in this city or this territory and we're gonna start putting infrastructure in and get those people on and then just keep cascading it from there. Um, you know, cuz there's a lot of things, I mean, you look around the country, I mean, you're in Illinois, I'm in part-time in Utah, Arizona. What works in Illinois may not work here, right? Where we're at, you know, you've got snow and you've got, you know, severe winds and weather. And so there is some things that could, hamper that. I mean, the ultimate is smart infrastructure while you drive and charge at the same time, you know, or even solar on your roof, or, you know, panels on your roof. But if you live in a place that's cloudy all the time, who knows, is that going to work? If you live in a place that gets sleet all over your sensors, is that going to work? So there is some, there is some ways to do that, I'm sure, but we need to come up with that and really put together, I think, some pilots somewhere. Nobody's ever really done anything but just talk about it.

Well, I mean, you've got a lot of the small locales, right? They do a lot of pilots locally. Yeah. But to Mike's point is there's nothing nationally where there's a standard where I can just— I know if I go to Utah or I can make it to Utah and I've got the charging infrastructure and I don't have range anxiety, which is totally a real thing. People with electric vehicles, you know, is do I have enough to get to the next charging station? You know, it— could you see something more coordinated at the federal level like we did with, you know, Eisenhower and the freeway project, right, getting the interstates all set up? You could see something along those lines. You know, this infrastructure bill that we've been talking about and seeing debated, you know, all the political strings that are attached to that, but, you know, getting some of those things moving.

That's actually where it needs to come from, but they just need to take all the pork and all the stupid stuff out of it and say, you know, let's, let's put some stuff—

if they did that, nothing would ever get passed.

But I don't think babysitting is part of that, right?

But the idea is that, you know, you will probably need some level of government involvement. As much as I'd love to say, because I'm a big free market guy, that the market will drive it, um, that's something that big, that— because it, it is such a big investment. I mean, you saw Google Google tried to roll out Google Fiber to all these different places and locations. They struggled to get that infrastructure in place. Free market did drive a lot of that with Google and all the Comcasts and the AT&Ts. But you remember back to the old phone days when they were having to run phone lines and you had mega monopolies, government-sponsored monopolies, to keep— because the infrastructure cost was so high. And these guys needed to be able to be incentivized. I've got to be able to put this in and know that I'm not going to have deal with, you know, getting undercut by the next vendor. Uh, so maybe something like that has to come along where it's, it's more, uh, government-sponsored monopolies. Got that here in Arizona with our power companies.

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. I mean, it is akin to the Eisenhower Project. I mean, it has to be that scope and scale for it to even work if you want to get cross-country, you know, and have that kind of—

and then you'll see the adoption. I think that'll that it would really change it. But all right, so definitely, I mean, it's— I think it's on everybody's mind and nobody's got a solution yet. Maybe we just figured it out, but I doubt it. We haven't figured out the other part of that, which was, you know, everything was a little bit different politically in the Eisenhower era. We were pretty— we were a little more unified back then. But yeah, uh, all right, hey, any last thoughts, Mike, as you, uh, as we get ready to sign off here?

No, I just— I really appreciate you guys having me on. I think fleet management is just something really dear to me, and I think the fact that you guys are doing what you're doing and doing this for and giving all this knowledge out. I mean, just being on this call with you, I'm kind of overwhelmed by, you know, you guys' prowess, you know, in the industry. So I appreciate you giving me, a fleet manager like myself, a voice and being able to talk about things that I think is important. And ultimately, I consider both you guys friends. So I know this is not the last time that we'll talk. I think there'll be a lot of stuff with NAFLA that we'll have to be involved with. And I know I'll see you down at Columbus, hopefully.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

Well, I can tell you, if you mentioned it earlier, one of the most exciting and most rewarding things you'll do is to give back. Yeah. You know, and, uh, that, that's for me, that's the most exciting thing I do. When a fleet manager comes to me and says, can you help me? I, I'm excited about that. 'Cause I mean, I remember those mentors I had as I grew up through this industry. So that's when you're on top of Maslow's pyramid, if you remember that in college, right?

Self-actualization.

Put that on the topics to discuss, you know, find Maslow's pyramid.

Pyramid, right? I think for me, it's not so much, "Hey, I need help with this." I always love is when somebody comes up to me and says, "You may not remember this, but 2 years ago, you were talking about this one thing," and it's something I totally thought was like a throwaway comment or didn't realize I had an impact. Like we just presented at NAF and there's 8 people in the room. Well, if one of those 8 people come up to me 2 or 3 years later and says, "By the way, you said something in there, and it totally changed how we approached this problem. You made a huge difference in my life. Like, that for me gives me goosebumps. Like, I'm just like, all right, let's go run through a wall. I'm ready. The adrenaline's up. You know, that's what I love when I, you know, when I've made that impact with somebody. You know, when we could look back and say, hey, Andrew, we were able to find you a position. You know, like, that's, that's when you realize, like, hey, we did something. Yeah. You know, we were able to give back, and it's— that's what it's all about.

So.

All right, sir. Well, thank you for joining us today, Steve. A pleasure as always. For everybody listening, thanks again for tuning in for another episode. As always, if you have any questions or comments, any topics you want to see us discuss, email us at podcast@rtafleet.com and we will see you next week. Thanks again.

Have a good one. Thanks. Thanks for joining us on this episode episode of the Fleet Success Show. If you liked our show, we'd appreciate your 5-star review. Be sure to subscribe anywhere you listen to podcasts and come hang out with us anywhere on social media at Fleet Success. See you next time.