Episode 055: It's Not All About the Pay

Welcome to the Fleet Success Show, a podcast dedicated to talking about the fundamentals, standards, and best practices that empower today's fleets to achieve fleet success. Let's get into the show.

All right. Welcome back for another episode of the Fleet Success Show. I'm your host, Josh Turley. Joining me again, Jeff Jenkins.

Howdy.

Welcome back. Welcome back. So today we've got a fun little one. And today's topic is it's not all about the pay.

What?

It's kind of about the pay, but it's not all about the pay.

What?

So I know we've gotten a lot of feedback from, you know, Fleet as we've talked to different clients and different people out at trade shows. You know, technician recruiting and retention is a big topic these days. You know, how do we keep people? They're leaving for $1 an hour more, $2 an hour more. I know we've talked a little bit about that, but just recently there was a LinkedIn post that I was engaging with, and it talked about this HR officer who, you know, they were doing the recruiting and it got down, they found this great candidate who they loved, and the position paid anywhere from $90,000 to $120,000. So a well-paying job. And the HR officer, instead of coming in and saying, "Yo, man, we love you. Like, let's just bring you in and make sure that you're happy with the job, we're happy with the job." They immediately did the whole hard negotiation tactic and went and they dove for the basement, right? Well, we're going to offer you this at $85,000. And the employee is like, well, I don't feel confident, don't know how to negotiate my own salary, you know, any number of things. They went ahead and they took it, but then a few months later they're like, ah, like, I just— this isn't worth it. And I found out like I could have gotten $120,000 I'm getting job offers from other places at $120K. And this LinkedIn post is going on. And then all of a sudden it says, well, they went ahead and they took another job because they got better pay. The job they had wasn't as fulfilling. And that's where I just kind of threw on the brakes on the whole post. I'm like, well, wait, wait, wait. Even if they had come in and offered $120K, right? Top of their budget. If this person got through 3 months into the job and the job wasn't what they were expecting or it wasn't fulfilling anymore, like they're still in the wrong job.

Yep, they're gone.

It's not all about the pay, and I think that was the point of this post was, you know, don't undermine your people and don't underpay your people. And, you know, Dan Price and all of his pay everybody $70,000 and life is going to be amazing. It's not all about the pay, and it can't all be about the pay. We even had a situation where, you know, we had somebody that was probably getting overpaid by about 30% compared to what their role could have been. You know, and we did it because we appreciated the work they were doing and we thought they were a great team member, but they weren't being fulfilled by the work. They weren't being challenged. They didn't like the work they were doing. And they went and instead of coming to us, which is what I always recommend to our people— I've got another story for that— you know, they went out and they found— they started looking for another job. And it wasn't about the pay because they were getting paid more than they're going to get at their next job. It was about the work. They couldn't find fulfillment in the work. The way I normally like to see that is we actually had another employee who came to us and says, "Hey, you know, I love what I'm doing and, you know, like, the pay is fine," but they had different passions and they wanted to go do something different. You know, like they wanted to be either an educator or a vet. They had different passions outside of what we were doing here at RTA. And they're like, you know, I just don't know where I need to go from here. And we're like, yeah, like, we love it when people come and tell us that they want to leave, especially when they tell us like 3 or 4 months in advance, because then it gives us time to recruit. They can help find another job. There's none of this like mysterious, oh, I've got a doctor's appointment in air quotes, right, where I'm going to an interview when really it's, you know. So we like it because we can help coach them through things as well. They can take more time to find a job that they are going to love. Instead of being like under the gun to find something. And so we really like encouraging that type of exchange. But one of the things that we usually try to help them get clear about is, well, what is it they are looking for in a role so that it is fulfilling? Because it's not all about the pay. And you're seeing so much of this right now, too, where like we talk about the great realignment that's been happening for every industry outside of fleet.

Yeah.

I mean, everybody calls it the great resignation, but I like the great realignment. But people are jumping for, you know, hey, I went and jumped to another job for $40,000, and they're realizing, wow, the grass really wasn't any greener on this side of the fence.

So I'm guilty.

You've done this before?

I'm guilty. I will say that, yes. So I was working at a company, and, uh, I wouldn't say I was completely dissatisfied. I didn't really like what I was doing, but there was probably other opportunities within the company.

Yeah.

If I really reached out and asked, right? Huge, huge organization. But instead I went the route of looking for another job. And the reason I actually went looking for a job, because I had a headhunter reach out to me.

Yeah.

And ask me if I was interested. And it was, it was $40,000 more than I was making. Right. Which to me, I mean, not insignificant. It was huge. I mean, that was like a probably a 30% increase in pay.

Yeah.

At the time. And so I did. I took this other job. No real huge red flags with it. I probably should have done more research, but I got there and it didn't take more than a couple weeks to realize I just boned myself.

You just made a huge mistake.

Huge mistake because the culture was terrible. The place where the office was, it wasn't that great, but just in general. And looking back, it's like, geez, actually, I've done this twice.

So you're a repeat offender.

I'm a repeat offender. So the first time—

you don't learn your lessons very well.

My first, my first real job at night, right? I was working there and, you know, I'd been there almost 10 years and I didn't— I wasn't really making, I think, what I thought I could make. You know, you have these little goals in your, in your mind that you want to make, and one of my goals was by the time I'm 30, I want to make six figures, right? I wasn't making six figures and I was 29 years old. So I got an offer from another company, it was $20,000 more. Right? And I jumped on it and I took it. And that's probably like the biggest regret career-wise that I have is that I ever left Knight, because I think I could have had a really good career there. But I jumped it, and the other company wasn't bad, right? It wasn't terrible, but it was like night and day from what I was used to. So it took me a good year to get acclimated to this other culture and how things were going, you know. And then that's the company I left for this other $40,000 increase. So like very, very money motivated.

Right, well, within 3 years you're up 60, right?

Yes, but I was very unhappy at both locations just because of the culture, or it was not what I was expecting and it was different and I was unsatisfied and I was unfulfilled. Sure, I was making more money. I was able to afford a better house, more toys. But like, the success that I was having was there, but it was unfulfilling to me. Completely.

Yeah. And they do say like the best way to give yourself a pay raise is to quit.

Yeah.

You know, which it's sad that that's the case, but it is true. And, you know, like that's born in truth. But just make sure that when you are quitting and getting that raise, that you're not just doing and having that kind of experience where you're not looking before you leap, you know, and understanding exactly what you're getting into. Because it really does come back to— I know Steve has shared this before as well. Like, you know, he went from one company where the culture was incredible and he loved working there. And like, it brought tears to his eyes every time he thinks about it again. And then he got recruited away to another company, also very big, that he had a lot of input in and it could make a difference. But it was a terrible company, even though they were paying him twice as much. And he didn't last there very long because he just didn't like it. I think sometimes we do, we get all caught up in this, this mindset, both from two perspectives. One is the employee where, you you know, we're thinking, well, how can I go get paid more? How can I get paid what I'm worth? I want to grow and do all these things, you know, and I lose sight of what's most important. But then as an employer, I know talking to some of the, you know, the fleet managers and things like that, we just seem to think that, oh, if I had more budget, I could fix some of these problems, I could hire better. And yeah, to a point, but it's, it's just we always have to remember it's not all about the pay. And I think this example where, you know, we had somebody leave and they're getting paid very well, they're going to go take a pay cut to go work somewhere. And we have had on the flip side, we've had employees take a pay cut to come work for us because they weren't fulfilled at their job. And sometimes it's not the company, it's the job role itself. They're in the wrong seat and they don't want to move to a different seat, but they don't see any way out. And so they just decide that, hey, I'm going to quit.

Well, it's the fear of the unknown, right? The fear of unknown going to a different job. You may be really, really good at what you do. And so you don't want to give that up. I will tell you, that's me in trucking. That was very hard for me because I was really good at trucking, especially the operation side.

Yeah.

So leaving the operation side of trucking and going to do something else in trucking scared the shit out of me.

Yeah.

Because I'd never failed in operations and trucking, and that was opening myself up to failure elsewhere.

Yeah. I think one of the things that we look at with pay as well, there's a I don't remember who this was. It's, it's kind of up there with like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but we talk about satisfiers and dissatisfiers. You know, like, what are things that, that leave us feeling great, and what are things that just when we have too much of them, we're just no longer dissatisfied? I always think of like drinking water. When you're really thirsty, right, like, you drink water and it just, it makes you feel awesome, but you get to a point where you're satiated. Any, any more water and you're just like, I don't need any more water. Like, I'm, I'm totally full. I don't need more water. Oh, here's more water, right? And, and money is kind of that same category. We call that a dissatisfier. If you don't have enough water, if you don't have enough money, you're going to feel dissatisfied. You're going to feel thirsty. But once you get to a certain point, more money or more water isn't going to make you feel any less thirsty. It's not going to make you feel any less poor. You know, and it's up here. Well, too much money, that's— there's no such thing. I'm like, well, yes, I believe there is. You can have too much money if you're not happy doing the job you're doing. Like, you've got to find a higher purpose. You have to find a higher level of fulfillment in the work you're doing. You have to enjoy what you do. And that goes back to our whole thing on time, you know, like no amount of money has ever bought a second worth of a second more of time.

No, not at all. And I think that— what was the stat that came out? Was it 40% of everybody that's jumped ship in the last couple years has regretted it and wish they'd stayed where they were at? Yeah, I mean, it was an unbelievably high number.

Yeah, like, we're gonna have the Great Realignment 2.0.

Yeah.

And I'm calling this thing the Great Regret. You know, like, we had the Great Resignation, aka Great Realignment, you know, where people are— we just went through this huge traumatic event as a society. We're reevaluating our lives and we're like, yeah, I want to do something more and chase and go and take advantage of this. Wages are through the roof and I want to take advantage of that. And then you do, you get to that someplace and you're like, oh no. And now we're gonna have a second wave of resignations based on regret. You know, we got to the other side of the fence and realized, wow, what a great thing we left behind. And we've had people do that too. They get to the other side and they're like, oh no, I've made a terrible mistake. They'll reach out 2 weeks later, you know, can I have my old job back? And, you know, and this goes to something Steve always says, which is make sure that when you do that, that you handle the relationships the right way.

Yes.

You know, don't leave your other company in the lurch. Don't, you know, burn bridges while you're doing it. Um, and, you know, sometimes we've had some people, they've burned the bridge and then they realize too late that they're on the wrong side of the island, you know, they can't get off, um, you know, because they burned the bridge back home.

Yeah, there was a, there was a guy on TikTok, and for clarification, I don't have TikTok, I read the story in the news. I'm not a teenage girl. I don't have TikTok.

Steve's got TikTok.

Like I said, I'm not a teenage girl. But this guy, he streamed him quitting to his boss.

Oh no.

Right? So, and he just basically, you know, he just says, hey, I'm calling to give you my 2-week notice. And the boss was like, why? And the boss was very, very like short and curt. Like he didn't seem to care that the guy was quitting. Right? He just cared that he was going to be left in the lurch.

Right.

So you could see like based on that interaction, probably a good reason as to why the guy was quitting. But he didn't actually attend his 2-week notice, right? So when you talk about leaving a company in the lurch and everything else, like, that guy at some point, right, whatever he left to go do, that job may not be available, right? Or he misses what he was doing, and he's just completely burnt that bridge, and now there's no way he's going to go back. If you're going to quit, don't offer a 2-week notice if you're not going to work a 2-week notice, right?

If you're hoping that they're going to dismiss you and still pay out the 2 weeks Hey, the whole strategy there is all about you and it's self-serving, and I would never do that. I would never hire you back, especially if that's your motive. You know, I will tell you is that the conversations I've had that have turned out the best are the ones where they've come to me and they've said, look, I'm just not happy in my role anymore. I like— they're looking for help, and a lot of them, it's, you know, I'm not happy in my role anymore. I think I'd like to explore other options. "Like, how do I go about doing this? I don't want to leave you in the lurch, but like, I'm probably going to leave here at the end of the month." What I love is when they come, they're like, "Look, I'm planning on moving back home in August, and I don't, like, I can't stick around that long." It's just, it puts you in a much better position as an employer because I can help them. I'm much more likely to help them because they've done such a favor to me as the employer. They don't want to leave their team.

Hurting, right? And it gives you time to help them, right, to backfill them, to make that transition. The problem is that most companies, they don't have that attitude.

No, which is sad.

Like, you're shooting yourself in the foot here.

Yeah, if you, if you go in and turn in a 2-week notice, most companies will walk you out the door that day, right? And because why? Well, I don't know why other than they're just insecure.

And they honestly— proprietary information is what most are going to say. Well, I don't want to take it. Guess what? I just quit to you. If I was going to take your shit, I would have taken it last week, right?

Like, I already have it. Time this out a little better. You know, well, they're gonna take their vacation or they're gonna just, you know, mail it in. I'm like, anybody giving you the courtesy of a 2-week notice, assuming they're intentional and they're gonna actually work it out, unlike this guy, um, you know, right? Like, if they were honest before they walked into your office, they're still honest, right? If they were an ideal team player before they walked into your office, they're still an ideal team player.

Yeah, absolutely. But, but like, companies don't allow for that type of a relationship, right? Right? It'd be great if I knew I was going to quit, right? And I was looking for another job and I was to come to you and say, hey, Josh, I'm really not happy. I'm going to look for another job. Okay, well, what do you need? Right? I'm still committed to you. I'm helping you out. But I also know that you need to backfill me.

Right?

So I'm giving you that courtesy to find somebody so I don't leave you in the lurch either. Yeah.

And it does work in your benefit if you're the employee doing this, because while you're looking for that next job, Right? Like, you have support, you have understanding, there's flexibility of, okay, well, what do you need from us? And, well, I might need to go take some interviews. Okay, perfect. Let's just schedule them. We know what you're doing. Everything's on the up and up. How can we help you? Do you need letters of reference? Like, what do you need? Um, and so as a fleet manager, I think, like, what's my takeaway from this, right? Because like you said, most companies are not going to do this. And like, I don't want to go out there and tell you, hey, if you're not happy with your job, go tell your boss and see how it goes. Because that would be terrible career-ending advice in most cases. What I would hope that you would take away from this is, as the leader, be the leader that you want to quit.

Yep.

Right? Be the leader that if— how would I want somebody to handle it when I'm not happy anymore? Right? And be that leader and encourage your people to have those types of discussions with you. And then when they do come in and turn in their 2 weeks, reflect and see, how do I handle this? And how am I treating this employee with this? Am I offering solutions? Am I offering to help them on their way? Am I celebrating the fact that they're leaving? How do I handle that entire ordeal?

Yeah, because if you are just pissed they're quitting and bitter, yeah, it's— guess what? You're the problem, not them, right?

And that's usually what happens is a lot of us turn— we get resentful, we get bitter. It's them, not us. And sometimes it's going to be where that employee, like, you really don't want them back anyway. You know, I've had that before as well. People have turned in their 2 weeks, it's like, yeah, I'm actually kind of really excited about this. I'm glad you're leaving because you were kind of on the list of people I needed to talk to. You know, and so you don't necessarily have to break your back doing all the things for them, but same thing, you never know when like they may end up being your boss or you may go work at a different company. Steve talks all the time about, you know, in fleet especially, I've seen people make the jump from vendor to fleet manager, back to vendor, back to fleet manager several times.

Yeah.

And you never know when somebody is going to be your customer or they're going to be your boss or, you know, they're going to be in a, you know, in a position of authority over you. You just can't burn the bridges.

It's a small world.

So that's our advice today is, you know, make sure that you remember no amount of budget is going to make everybody want to love and love their jobs. But try to encourage people to look for jobs that are fulfilling. And come to you and be open with you if they're not happy in their job. So that's going to do it for us today. A reminder that we do have the Fleet Success Playbook out.

We do.

Email us if you want information on how to get a copy of that and you might just get a free copy. We're running out of free copies though, so, you know, be sure to email us podcast@rtfleet.com. Let us know if you have any topics that you'd like us to discuss as well. Same email address, podcast@rtfleet.com. And we will see you— gosh, it's going to be this week coming up at GFX, May 26th in Detroit, doing a little Fleet Success mini summit with Jeff, Steve, and I. Yep. We will see you all there.

Looking forward to it. Take care.

Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Fleet Success Show. If you liked our show, we'd appreciate your 5-star review. Be sure to subscribe anywhere you listen to podcasts and come hang out with us anywhere on social media @FleetSuccess. See you next time.