Episode 079: Lessons from 30 years of Fleet Management

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We are a podcast dedicated to talking about the fundamentals, standards, and best practices that empower today's fleets to achieve fleet success. Let's get into the show.

Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Fleet Success Show. I'm your host, Jeff Jenkins. I know that's odd to hear, right? Because usually this is Josh introducing the podcast, but he's actually tending to some other business right now, much more important than being here on the podcast. He's got some family things he's doing. But I have a special guest for us today. I'm really excited to bring on the podcast, Jan Smith.

Hey, everybody.

Perfect. So, Jan, you've been dealing with fleets for a long time. Over 30 years. Yes. So what I'm hearing is you've forgotten more than most people are ever gonna learn.

That's probably true. With age, I guess that comes. But yeah, with the change in the industry and everything going on, you, you kind of think back about where you were and think where you are now, and it's— things have changed so much that you kind of forget about those things that, that were in place 30 years ago.

Yeah. And I want to talk a little bit about what's changed, right, in the last 30 years, some of those things. So if we start just at the, I guess, the high level, we can talk about vehicles first, right? So vehicles have changed dramatically, mostly a lot of the electronics that are in the vehicles now, right? So kind of just like give us your viewpoint of the big changes just in regards to vehicles.

Well, I think that, you know, back 30 years ago when you had a vehicle, It was set for a specific purpose, and that purpose was for it to either haul or to drive or to carry, whatever you're doing with that. And the vehicles today, they serve so many different purposes and they have so many different options to them. Back then, you know, you see the electronics in them compared to what they were today. It's just, it's scary to think that you had those, you know, you drove and you had to be aware of what's in your mirrors and, and what's going on around you.

Yeah.

Now they have— makes it so easy. They have a mirror that— they have a camera that pops up on the right-hand side when you want to change lanes or when you back up, you know. And even in, in my truck, I've had a hard time getting used to that backup camera because back then, you know, that was what you did. Everything was pretty much manual from that standpoint. Uh, you didn't have— you did— for a vehicle to have an electric start on it you know, was, was just crazy, you know. And, and you, when you wanted air conditioning, you had to order that special in a vehicle.

Yeah.

Nowadays, especially here in Arizona, you don't get a vehicle here without air conditioning or some of those, those other amenities in the vehicle. Seating, um, you know, I remember getting in my first vehicle, first truck, you know, and, uh, to have a solid seat that just didn't move at all. And nowadays, you know, they're so comfortable, they're air ride, they're cushioned, they're air conditioned.

You know, uh, massagers in the chairs, everything, you know.

It's just crazy what you can do with them. Um, so again, back then vehicles served a purpose. Um, now they are built more for our comfort.

Yeah, they're an extension, right? Kind of an extension of your home. So do you trust your backup camera now?

Um, I still look at my mirrors first. I, I, it's just a common habit for me, but, uh You know, the first time I drove with my wife, she said, it has a backup camera. I said, yeah, but I don't trust that.

I mean, it's real time what's behind me, but I don't trust it. Yeah, it's funny because every time I see someone with a backup camera, they'll do like the turnaround, right? I'm like, you know, that camera works just fine, it's right there. Oh, I don't trust that thing. It's like it's a false image, right, that they just put inside the truck.

When I ride with my daughter and that, that camera comes on when she changes lanes, it, it startles me because I'm like, what But wait a minute. So, but yeah, so, so vehicles have changed the— not only internally in the cab and everything else, but also externally.

Yeah, the parts.

The parts have changed, the way they function, the way that they're built. And they're, they're built more as a solid unit or a one unit, you know. I mean, used to be you had a part for this, a bumper, you had a part for that, you know, and everything that went on. Nowadays, you know, it's, it's all built in one. So it's—

well, and it was more simplistic back then. You remember back, like, if if you grab an old vehicle made in the '60s, the '70s, and you pop the hood, there's so much room and space inside that, inside that engine block, right? Whereas now everything's so tight, compacted, compressed, that back then you could go and work on your vehicles and it was much easier.

I remember being told that they say the mechanics of tomorrow won't know what an aspirated engine is, you know, or a carbureted engine. It just was not the thing. And you kind of like, wait, wait a minute, you know, everybody has these, but But even people's cars, unless you get to some of those people who have some old, old cars, uh, their hobby cars in the back, even those, they're no longer carburation on them, you know, it's all fuel injected. It's more efficient, uh, vehicles are more efficient today, uh, they have to be. Yeah, you know, and thank heavens with the price of fuel, uh, back then, you know, it was not that way.

Yeah, so I mean, we talk about like how there's less room, right? So mechanics, they've had to change over the last 30 years as well. Right? The knowledge that they know. It used to be where, you know, if someone wanted to learn how to fix an engine, you could self-teach yourself— self— I guess you could be self-taught a lot easier than you can now because you have all the electronics and the diagnostics.

Yeah, so many shade tree mechanics. That's what we were called back then, shade tree mechanics, where, you know, you, you could fix the vehicle if it had a problem, you pulled over. Uh, nowadays with all electronics, if you don't have some type of a gadget that reads and the ECM and everything else that goes on it, you know, it's pretty difficult to tell what's going on with that engine and what, what type of bells and whistles and buzzers are going off to tell you what's going on inside under the hood.

Yeah. Do you think because of all that advancement and how many more parts and everything that vehicles take longer to fix or less time to fix?

I think with the, the tools that we have now it's easier for the vehicle to tell you, if I can say that.

You don't have to diagnose it.

You don't have to diagnose it. You know, it used to be, you know, I mean, if you had a mechanic who could do electronic, electric, I mean, he was worth his weight in gold because he could diagnose things. Nowadays, all that's, uh, being told you, you know, the engine, the, the car vehicle tells you what is, what's going on with it. So I think it takes less to diagnose, but the labor to repair things. You know, I, I go in and, and, uh, what was it I had the other day? And they say the labor to do this is like 24 hours, the parts like $30, you know. So it's— it— to get to it. Um, I had the— on my car, I have a Hyundai, um, really nice car, but, uh, it hasn't— it has a problem. The check engine light comes on, and when they diagnose it, they said it's a sensor on top of the fuel tank, and they say it's not leaking fuel, it's not dangerous, but to repair that they have to drop the whole fuel tank out. And so it takes X number of hours, and it's like a $700 job to change that, you know, $15 sensor.

And all because they've tried to compartmentalize everything, get it all compacted. It definitely drives up those labor costs. It's funny, I had a Yukon— not a Yukon, what was it? GMC Sierra, right? And it was 2015, so it wasn't too old. The battery died, so I had to go change the battery. So what do I do? I go and I pop the hood, and where the hell's the battery? Like, I'm looking all over for it, and I'm like, okay, I guess I'm gonna— I feel like an idiot, first of all. So I get the owner's manual, and I'm like, okay, where the heck is the battery at? It's under the middle seat behind the passenger side. So I had to take that out, lift it up just to change the battery, and the space, it was just like a— I had to grease the sides of the battery just to get it in and out.

Well, my Hyundai, you know, if you want to jump something on it, you pull off these caps and you have just two spades sticking up, but that's what you use. The battery's somewhere underneath that. But if you want to feel silly, yeah, I have a 2019 GMC Denali, okay, and I took it in to have it checked. They said, hey, your battery's cracked, you know, and they'll— but it's under warranty, we'll replace it. I said, well, if you replace it and you'll make sure it's all wiped down, because I don't want that acid all over everything. So comes back and I start having a problem not too long ago, and I'm like, what's going on here? So I take it back in and they said, yep, the battery's bad. And I said, well, we just replaced that one. They said, no, that's the other one we replaced. It has two batteries on it, and one of them you can't even see. It's down underneath the side and it's, it's buried down in there. And so they said, what happens is we have to replace them both because if we don't replace them both, one will wear out faster.

It'll draw more power.

Draw more power. Yeah. And I'm like, you know, I'm used to when you open a hood, you— if you had dual batteries, you saw them both right up there on the top, right on the front. Now that dual battery, that second battery, is somewhere buried down underneath there, and only they know it's there. I, I still couldn't tell you where it's at.

Yeah, it's, it's almost not worth the hassle if you're just a common person to work on your car.

It's gotten to be that point where— and you see a lot of people, most people these days, you go to any dealership, you know, and you see them lined up.

Oh yeah.

To go in there, and that's just the dealerships, you know, and you know what they charge. So other repair shops, so it's— if you, if you have people who know how to repair cars today and can use the proper tools and diagnose it properly, I'll tell you, most people would rather have that than, and then try to do it themselves. You can't.

No, you absolutely can't. And, you know, we talk about now, like one of the big struggles a lot of fleet managers go through is retaining technicians or just retaining staff in general. Right. And I think a lot of that is kind of, you know, how things are managed in just the society we live in. Like, what do you recall from back in the day as far as management styles or how people were managed versus how it's done today?

Oh, it's a lot different today. And technicians are different. And nothing against technicians, but I think the technicians today are more, they're more educated. They have to be. Back then you could bring someone into your shop who knew how to turn wrenches, and as long as you kept him happy and gave him a lunch break and he needed, had what he needed, or she, they would be fine and they could, they could manage and they got paid. Nowadays, you know, there's so much to it. A lot of shops will provide certain tools. I remember back with us, the only tools you had to get were the large tools. You know, if you're working on something large and you had to have the large spanner wrenches or large sockets, things like that. Nowadays there's so much you need to work on a car and you walk into any shop and you see those toolboxes and technicians are, you know, and they know they can work anywhere. It used to be in the day, you kept people because they stayed with you. Nowadays, um, you're jumping, they're jumping.

Yeah, a lot of that I think is just, um, you know, the, that's time and age that we live in, right? People job hop. The average person stays at a job for like 3 years, I think is what it is. It's not very long, and that can, that can cross just different professions. Um, but you know, people, they always think there's the grass is greener, and so they're always jumping, right? We've talked many times on the podcast about, you know, retention and how to treat employees and, you know, making sure that, you know, if you are a technician and someone's offering you another 50 cents or a dollar, you're really looking at what type of culture you're going into, right? And it'll be a problem, it'll continue to be a problem because we're, we're very impatient as a society in general, right? And I think that that's, you know, a lot to do with, you know, fast food, right? You have your instant TV coming to you, whether it's movies or you're streaming sports. Like, we We don't have patience anymore for anything. And so that translates very much into employment as well.

Satisfaction, you know, that, that self-gratification, that self-satisfaction. I was just talking the other day with my son-in-law about Amazon. Here in Arizona, you get Amazon the same day.

Yeah, like 3 hours later.

And his brother lives back in, back east in Iowa, and he lives out in the sticks a little bit, and he says Prime for them is 4 to 5 days.

Yeah.

So we are used to having that quickly, having it now, everything. In fact, you know, you look at— you talk about sports, boxing matches, you pay and you can watch boxing match no matter where it's at in the world, you know. So you have all that and you don't— so you don't have those. You didn't have those kind of things back then, cell phones and everything else that's going on. You know, the big costs were, you know, as if you're managing a fleet, were fuel and tires and parts, you know.

Right.

Those were the big three. And even now when I talk to people talk about software, you know, I see, you know, they say, well, we're not tracking parts, we're not tracking labor. And I'm like, what?

How can you do that?

You know, how can you do that? Because those are such major costs. But, you know, now we know that, you know, because of the epidemic or whatever it is, parts are difficult to get a hold of. I think you have said, Jeff, about people, you know, buying extra new vehicles. They can't get the chips for them, so you can buy them for extra parts, you know.

Yeah.

And it's an easy way to get parts.

It's an expensive way to get parts too. And that's like the unfortunate part, right? Is it's very expensive. So before we started this, we were talking about kind of some of the things we wanted to address. And you had mentioned, you know, relationships, like the buying cycle and what was important for, you know, fleet managers or procurement people on purchasing. And you had kind of talked about, you know, how there's been a little bit of a shift. Would you want to talk about that a little bit?

Yeah, it's kind of interesting. I remember my father way back when he had a '72 Chevy pickup and all of his trucks, he went to one dealership and he talked to Curly. Curly was that person. He had that relationship with them and he just bought his vehicles from them. There was never any question.

Yeah.

Nowadays it's a little different. You know, you're shopping. We shop prices because it's so easy.

It's convenient.

Prices. But to have relationships, you know, with people It's, it's still important. We, we're not so much about price anymore as we are about that relationship, who we trust, who we feel good with. And even to the point of employees, you know, you build relationships. We're always looking at how, how people's lives are and how they're living and how they feel. We're a feel-good civilization now. So the relationship is important.

It's funny, our decisions are based on feelings, right? Our reactions to what people say or what they do, it's totally feeling-based. We've given so much credit to that and less credit to data and facts that that is true. It drives what, what we do and how we react. When I, when I took over at Fleetwood, you know, one of the things that I did when I first got there was I started looking at what we were spending with all of our different vendors. Um, to see where I could cut costs. We were losing millions of dollars a year. So one of the things that I did is I looked at our tire costs, and we had this vendor that we've been using for over 20 years right down the road from where we are. But the shop manager, he'd always bought these tires from this guy. He had this great relationship with them. They would come by every week, right, just to stop by and visit and say hi, um, you know, buy lunch for the mechanics and everything once a month, right? There's like— they were very good at relationship building. However, when I started digging into it, their tires were almost 50% higher than everybody else because this guy knew that the relationship with our shop manager was all he needed. So they would raise the price, we wouldn't even sneeze at it and just say, okay, no question, no, no question at all. So like a steer tire, almost $1,000 for a steer tire, and I'm like, what in the hell are we doing, right? So I call the guy in and I say, hey, just so you know, I'm going out and looking for other vendors for tires if you want to look at your pricing. Well, you know, we have this relationship, we've been doing this together for so many years, you know. Um, he's like, you know, are you sure you want to go out? And I said, well, can you give me a price cut on the tire? Well, I can probably give you like a 5% price cut on the tires. I went out and found that same steer tire for $400.

And it's interesting because, uh, where I was at the college in Salt Lake City, we were on state contract. And so state contract, you bought tires on state contract. Talking about tires. Yep. And, uh, I, I said I could go anywhere and I could beat that state contract any day of the week. Now granted, I was, I was small peanuts, you know.

Yeah.

So I wasn't looking for thousands of tires, but I'm telling you, the pricing, you know, nowadays, you know, and, and, but the thing of it is, is, and you've heard me say this before, people buy in emotion. That's why we have red sports cars. You know, white sports cars go just as fast as red sports cars, but we buy in emotion and we justify on fact. And so once you start looking at the facts, just like your tire story, you say, oh, wait a minute, you know, what are we doing here? You know, but, and that's one of the things we have today that we didn't necessarily have before is we have the facts are at our fingertips, even with our software. You know, you can look at it and you can see it at a moment. So you have those facts. And so we're more likely today to, to look at those facts, um, rather than the relationships we had before.

Yep, you're absolutely true. It's funny you mentioned the red sports cars. Like, when I was buying my first car by myself, my mom's only advice to me was, do not buy a red car because it stands out to cops, and the way you drive, you're going to get a ticket every time you get on the road.

Did you?

Not every time.

You still bought the red sports car— the red car though?

No, actually I bought a, uh, I bought a silver one. It was a silver Mustang. You know, and I got plenty of tickets. I haven't changed my driving habits, so it is what it is.

Now just be careful. I saw today all the motor cops are out now. The weather's changed and the motor cops are out now. So yeah, just watch it out there.

They're a little more concealed.

A little bit more concealed. Yeah. So, but I think today another thing too is that we look at is reliability in our vehicles. Before, we bought vehicles because they were the vehicles. You bought a 10-wheel dump truck, you bought a, you know, bought a flatbed, you bought this because that's what it was.

Right.

Nowadays we do more comparisons, comparisons between manufacturers, comparisons between what we're getting. And of course, then you throw in there all the, the EV and everything else that goes along with that. And you have so much more to go off. But I think vehicles, you know, they may take a little longer, a little bit different to diagnose, but at the same time, I think they are a little bit more reliable.

Well, they are more reliable. I would agree with that statement. Um, but we also have so much— I mean, there is a lot of data, right? Especially with, with the internet and all that. But, you know, you have all these consumer groups that come out too, and they, they take surveys and they give awards based on it. So, you know, you got the J.D. Power guys out there giving all these, like, you know, there's like 100 different awards for different cars, you know, mini, compact, full-size truck, full-size. I mean, there's so many of them out there, and, um, sometimes you're just like, dude, I just want a car.

Well, I was just talking with someone the other day about this. Um, you know, we are not so locked into price— what we talked about— as we are, you know, take Amazon. You know, how many times you go to Amazon, do you look at the— you look what the people are saying about it? You know, oh, let's see what the reports are, what people are saying. How is this product? How is this product? And you compare products. Yep, we compare products, uh, because We want that reliability. We demand that reliability out there. So rather than just, hey, we need this, we'll buy this, we're more looking at, well, which is the best one? What does this company, what does this group say is the best one? What are the top 10 for 2022? So we compare those things. So we're more looking into that reliability in everything we buy.

I agree 100%. So you've got a lot of experience. Kind of walk me through the 3 most important things that a fleet manager should know. And let's start with like the before, right? So when you first started and then as it is now.

Yeah, when you first started, I think you— people didn't look at you as hard. You kind of had your own little kingdom. You had your own way of doing things. And as long as, as long as the police cars ran, as long as the, the, you know, the mayor had his purple car. I had a guy, my vice president, he whenever he went on tours, he always wanted a car that had no labels. There's no insignia from the college on that car. Now, I don't know where he went. Yeah, but that was one of the things he required was— so, so I think you, you were less likely to be under the spotlight back then, uh, as long as you ran and things ran well. That was the way it is today. I think it's a lot different. I think you, you have to deal with, um, you know, uh, right now costs are up, you know, percentage of 10%. You know, if you look at cost, 10% in the last year, 8.7% just in the last year. And I think, you know, you're held accountable for more of that. So before you were held accountable for having the vehicles running and that's what you did, you focused on that. You weren't worried about your technicians. You know, all that was taken care of, handled. The budget was pretty much easy. Nowadays it's a lot different. You're held up to a, you know, you're held up to a record, you know, that you have to keep. Going along, you have to— you're under the spotlight, um, and those questions come up not only by your boss but also by outside groups, especially when you get into cities or other organizations, stockholders. Uh, you guys have talked about it, you know, you know, we've got these stockholders out there, people who have interest in what we're doing, and we have to make them happy. And they're allowed to ask questions. Before, they never really cared about asking questions, so I think it's changed a lot from that standpoint. If I had to do it now versus today, I would try to be on top of what's going on with my money and inside the shop as opposed to what's going on outside. The vehicles are reliable. If I've got them up and running, if there's not a problem, they're out there, they're doing their thing. But really it's what's going on and am I able to afford this? You know, I talk to people that say, well, our budget is only allowing us to buy the parts we need. As opposed to other things. So, um, I think it's changed a lot over the years.

Yeah. And when we were talking before, uh, we started recording, you know, one of the things that we talked about is you had said, you know, back, back when I first started, your 3 major costs: fuel, tires, parts, right? And that's— there's kind of been a shift in what those major costs are.

Oh, totally.

Because, you know, right now you look at it and it's like, okay, well, my workforce, right? Your labor force is a very, very big part of that cost as well. Um, you need more people.

You have to have more people, and, and that adds to it quite exponentially.

But on top of that, you know, you add more people, but vehicles are also more reliable, but they can take longer to fix just based on how, uh, compacted it is under the engine and just all the different parts and the different things that are in there. And even, you know, getting those parts to you, so it takes longer. But the overall costs of what it takes not only to buy a vehicle but also to maintain a vehicle, right, have gone up just incredibly.

And you talk about tires, you know, tires is one of those areas, you know, you think about it, you know, I remember when they talked about, oh, we're going to put chips in tires, oh, we're going to put barcodes built in, oh, we're going to do all this. None of that's really come to fruition. But it's interesting about tires, and I'll tell a personal story. With my 2019 GMC I bought, and I've got 20,000, just over 20,000 miles on it. I've had two of my tires have— they basically have just separated.

Okay.

And I've got another one in the back now that I, you know, so can I rely on those other two? And so I was looking around, I finally went to the, to a, one of their dealers, and they told me, they said, oh yeah, the dealerships put those tires on, the manufacturers put those tires on because they're soft and they're quiet.

Yeah.

He says, I would not run those vehicles on my tires— on my vehicle— I thought tires on my vehicle. I'm like, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, I just paid, you know, $80,000 for this vehicle. I expect these tires will last at least 40,000 miles, not 20,000 miles. And so, you know, it's even in the technology of tires and what we want, they do that because we want them soft and we want them quiet, right? But they don't last. So, you know, I mean, you're out and you look at a set of tires nowadays, you know, you're talking $1,000, $1,200, $1,500. So it's interesting how much tires— the cost on tires back then versus the cost on tires now. And I think we're more— I don't know if we're more accepting of, of just what's out there. We take what's out there. We have so many different options. But, uh, back then, tires was a big cost, and it still is, especially if you're running a transit fleet or something like that. So fuel, tires, and then obviously parts back then to keep them in stock, right? And then, you know, a lot of times you see— and I talk to people where they have parts that are sitting on the shelf, have been there for years because they've sold off those buses, they've sold off those vehicles, and what do they do with the parts, you know? And so they're there. And, but nowadays, you know, you don't You don't keep those kind of things around. Your parts is— you keep a thin part system, you know, because you know that the most expensive part of your shop is your parts room because things just sit. So the biggest real estate you have in your shop is in your parts room.

I agree. So when I did my first full, like, parts inventory at the end of the first year over at Fleetwood, we had over a million dollars in parts that we were never going to use because they were all outdated and expired. Ridiculous amount of money that was just left there because there wasn't a proper accounting of parts, right? It was just, I need something, I go in and grab it. I mean, there was— it was terrible. Unbelievable about how much waste there was. So any last parting words of advice that you want to give to our listeners?

Yeah, I think, uh, you know, maybe I'll be a little selfish here. I think having some type of an FMIS system that helps you. There are so many fingers out there and it's hard for one person to keep track on that. I go into fleets where you have a whiteboard and you have all the PMs on it, you know, and I'm like, how do you track, you know, how does that happen? Parts. And you just talked about the parts going in, the parts going out. So I think for me, if I were back running a shop, you know, I would definitely shop vehicles. I would definitely shop a tire vendor. I may not keep tires in stock, but I would have a tire vendor that I could rely on that would do that. Someone who might even come out and do a tread wear evaluation, see if I'm using the best tires. And I think from that standpoint, if I had those things in place, fuel, you know, it doesn't matter. It seems like what fueling vendor you have, you're still gonna pay for fuel and you're gonna pay the cost of whatever the market is out there. So fuel is one of those things. So I think having a system that would help me where I could see where I'm at, where I had that capability, I would know. I know in our system we have a report that I can go out there and I can look and I can see every job that I've done, the number of times I've done it in a time frame, and then I can go across there. It breaks it out by labor and parts and things like that. But over on the far side, there's two columns. One is percentage and one is cost, and I can look at that percentage. And so We always used to hear the term management by walking around. Well, I like to look at that and say this is management by reporting because I could look at that report monthly, quarterly, whatever I want, and I could see where I'm spending my time in my shop. I could see what percentage of PMs, what percentage of exhaust, what percentage of tires, what percentage of the dents, bumps, and dings that the drivers put in there. So I can see what's going on in my fleet, things that would keep me awake at night or in your case, you know, lose my hair. But so having something like that that allows me me to, to have something so I don't have to keep all that, you know, on spreadsheets or whatever. I think that's key for nowadays. Um, and then I think from that standpoint, if I had that set up, had the fueling, had the parts inventory where I could, where I could manage it, where it's not overstocked like what you were talking about, I think you'd be much better off, a much better supervisor, because then you could focus on the things you need to focus on. And those are your technicians. Yep. Keeping people, making them happy. What do I need to do to have in place to, to keep knowledgeable technicians so that the jobs— you know, I've got, I've got parts or vehicles in the shop that aren't sitting there for 10 and 15 and 20 and 30 days. Um, I think that, that would, would— if it were me, if I were out there doing it again, yeah, that's where I would look. Okay.

Yeah, I mean, technology is obviously a very important part. So, well, Jan, thank you for joining us today. We appreciate it. Dropped a lot of good knowledge on us.

I hope so.

Thank you, everyone, for listening again. Don't forget that we have the Fleet Success Playbook. Email us if you would like a copy. podcast@rtafleet.com. Include your name, address, where you want to send it. We'd be more than happy to send you a free copy. Additionally, we've announced it. We're going to keep announcing it. The Fleet Success Summit coming up March 21st through 22nd in Las Vegas. We got great speakers. We keep announcing more and more. Go to fleetsuccesssummit.com if you'd like to see who the lineup is. We're also going to have some of those speakers are going to be guests on our podcast here so that you guys can get a little preview of some of the things that they'll be able to enlighten us with in March in Las Vegas. Well, that's all we've got for today. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time, guys.

Thank you.

Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Fleet Success Show. If you If you like the show, we'd appreciate your 5-star review. Be sure to subscribe anywhere you listen to podcasts and come hang out with us on social media at Fleet Success. See you next time.