Episode 096: Is Your Staff Meeting Your Expectations

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All right. Welcome back for another episode of the Fleet Success Show. I'm your host, Josh Turley, running solo today. And today I wanted to talk about an exercise we just went through with my staff and learned this. I've actually probably done a version of this several times over the last 10 years, but I was at an event called SAS Academy and heard it in a different way. And I think that's something that's always, always fun is when you hear something in a different way and it clicks. Or it resonates and just kind of lights something within you. And this, this happened for me this time. We were at this event and they demonstrated a, you know, basically on reviewing your people and how they are meeting your expectations. And I think a lot of us, you know, kind of, yeah, I'm not going to say we struggle with it, but sometimes we struggle to put it in words or to, you know, to quantify it or figure out, you know, how do we measure our people on their performance? How do we balance that against their culture fit? You know, and how do we, how do we have those conversations? Like, where do we have those conversations? And so, you know, to kind of set the stage, one of the things that I learned many years ago from Fred Krohn, you know, who I've spoken with in the past, used to be a very good friend and advisor of mine, And he talked about this concept of like, hey, you know, like you put it on a chart and it helps you identify like your A players, your B players, C players, that kind of thing. People that really belong on the team and people that you're just tolerating. And on one side he put performance and on the other side he put values or culture. And I always kind of like liked it, right? But like the challenge I had with it was, um, how do you rate people that are like, they're doing the job, they're getting the job done? Is that performance a 10 out of 10, or is it a 5 out of 10? Like, could they be doing better? Where, where do you put that line, right? So I always struggled with that side. And then on the other side, the, you know, the values— was it like a 10 out of 10, like the yes, they have all the values, or they kind of struggle with the values a little bit, or the mission? Where do they fall into all this? And I've done the exercise in the past, and it kind of like, yeah, But I think anytime you're doing something and you don't quite believe it, or you don't quite understand it as well as you could, you don't necessarily put your whole heart and record into it yet. And so this last week, as I was listening to Dan Martell and he was talking about this concept, I was like, okay, I've heard this before. But then he said something and it totally twisted the diagram in my mind, and it made me recognize how the opportunity that was on the table here. And he said, look, when you set the matrix, when you set this little, you know, it's basically just an XY axis, right? You just kind of draw a, you know, right angle on your paper, and on the bottom you put values, and on the left going up you put effectiveness. But then he said the thing that really clicked for me, and he says the values is what this, what he calls like the true believer index, from 0 to like true believer, live, breathe, die. The culture, right? Like, you know, you can't separate them from the company without, you know, without it seeming just like, oh, there's no way he could lose them. It'd be like losing a limb. And that'd be the value side of it, right? It's like true believer. They live, breathe, die, dry it— live, breathe, and die in the culture. They love it, you know, they just, they soak up the Kool-Aid and they're evangelizing to others. You know, like, that's a 10 in the value index. He says on the other side, the effectiveness is— it's not enough just to do the job, right, or get the job done that you've asked of them. He says, how many of them do work that impresses you or that inspires you? You know, when you see what they've done, you're like, wow, that's amazing. Like, that is a 10 out of 10 when you rate them. And for me, it was like, oh, okay, like, this is what I've been missing, is like I almost wonder if my standards were too low. And so I had this matrix and I sat down with my managers. I'm like, look guys, like, let's just take everybody in the company and figure out like, where do we feel like they land on this chart? Now the really critical thing is when you put this into the chart, right? Like right along the 5s, you know, so you've got a vertical line at 5 and a horizontal line at the 5 and it divides the chart into 4 quadrants. And down in the lower left, and again, this is something I hadn't seen before, but I thought was just really insightful. Down in the lower left, these are the people that you need to transition out, right? And so I wrote the word "leave" under that. And it's like 60 days. And if you don't do it within 60 days, guess what? You're a selfish prick. You know, and that's really the essentials of it, which is you're too worried about your own feelings that you're not willing to have a hard conversation with somebody that needs a hard conversation, right? And the hard conversation needs to be, I think you're at the wrong company. Yeah, you're definitely in the wrong job, right? Because like, you don't really seem like you fit in here, and it doesn't really— like, your work doesn't inspire me. And if you're not having that conversation with them, you're literally being selfish because you're trying to maintain and preserve your own comfort instead of helping them on their way. And I'll tell you, like, if you're listening to this podcast, you subscribe to our ideals, that if you're doing that and you're not having those conversations, then you're not acting congruently with our values, right? And you're not necessarily, you know, a part of this tribe, if I were to say that. So I'd push you, is if you have people that you know that are not true believers in your company and they're not doing work that inspires you, you owe it to them to have that conversation, right? And help them leave and find somewhere that does matter. Right above those guys, you know, you have the people that do work that's super impressive, inspiring even, you know, from the 5 to the 10, but they just don't believe in the company, the mission, right? And those ones are, you know, like, we know who they are, and those are your, your cancer cultures, right? Right? Or culture cancers. Culture cancers. They're toxic. And so for those ones, you've got to look out, right? You have to look out for them. You have to constantly be on guard, vigilant, make sure that they're not poisoning the culture surreptitiously or anything like that. You've just got to be watching and looking out for whatever they're doing in the culture. Hopefully you're having those conversations and having that conversation and say, look, you're not living up to our core values and you're not tolerating, you know, their bad behavior. And you're snuffing those out and moving them into the lower quadrant and the leave quadrant as quick as possible. Especially if they're, you know, like the further left they are, the faster you have to move on getting them out of the organization. Right? The further right they are, if they're getting close to that middle line, there might be hope for them. You might be able to get them to buy into the culture and get them to you know, just act the right way and get them over the line, so to speak. But if they're not, you know, like, you've got to move on with them and you've got to get them out of the company because they're going to cause some real damage. Down on the bottom right, we have the quadrant which is— this is the Lift quadrant. And this is the one that you've got people that really believe in the culture. They exemplify the mission. They want to succeed here. But maybe they're just like, their work doesn't expire you. You know, you're sitting there looking at it and saying, man, you could do so much better. Or, you know, it's just like they're in the wrong role and you know it, but they don't know it, right? And they just keep grinding and grinding and grinding, but it's like, you know, 16-year-old learning stick the first time, just, you know, grinding the gears on the clutch box, and you're just like, oh, come on. You know, it's like nails on a chalkboard. Those people deserve to be lifted, right? Because they totally buy in. And, and there's a 3-step process for that. One, for those people, if you're looking at it, you build skill first, right? If there's a skills gap, then you figure out, okay, well, this is work that inspires me, and this is where you're at, and it's not inspiring. Where's the skill gap? Can we invest in you and get you to a point that your work is inspiring? Maybe you just don't have the skill you need to do that particular part of the job. And I'll start there and I'll, you know, and I've had people I've worked with for years trying to get that skill gap up and I probably waited way too long, but I'd say 6 months, you know, anywhere from 3 to 6 months to get a skill gap narrowed as long as you're seeing progress and you can keep going longer as long as you're seeing progress that you're happy with. But you want to make sure that, that they're working on that skill gap. If the build skill is not working, right, then you transition to the next piece, which is switch roles. Maybe there's a better seat, right? So build skill is number 1. Number 2 would be better seat. All right, and again, this is for the people in the bottom right quadrant, which is the lift quadrant. And you try to find out, like, is there a better role that fits this person's strengths? And so I'll sit down with this person and list out like, hey, here's all the things that you're really good at and here's all the things that need work, right? And this is why, like, you're just not a good fit in this role, but you bring a ton of value to the team and here's how, right? You just kind of outline all the different things that they're doing really well and things that you think, you know, if we put you in this role over here, this role actually needs somebody with a lot of the strengths that you're exhibiting. And it's probably a better fit for you. You'll be a lot happier. You'll be a lot less frustrated anyway trying to be something you're not. And we try to find that better seat for them. Now, there's two things that come into play when you hit the better seat decision. One is they have to be willing to accept that better seat for them because it might not be a better paying seat. It also might not be a seat that aligns with their own personal career aspirations, and their ego comes into play to this, right, as they may not want to switch to another job. They may see it as a demotion. They may see it as, you know, getting kicked off the bus or, you know, worse, they might see it as a, like a slap in the face for all the, you know, time that they've put into trying to be what you wanted them to be. And they've got to make that decision, right? I've had some people that, you know, maybe they were in the accounting position and they just didn't belong there and they need to move over here. We've actually had, you know, a couple people within the organization that have switched roles several times because we're trying to find something that really aligns with their skill set. But it has to align with their own vision, their personal vision as well, right? If those first two things can't work, right, they don't want the better seat or you don't have a better seat available, because that happens too, is we may have a role that they'd be perfect for, but we don't have a spot for them on the bus. Then you transition them to the lower left quadrant and you figure out how do we help you move on in the next 60 days, right? And maybe that seems harsh, but I am a big believer in not having dead men walking around my organization. And so if there's people that know they're on the way out or they, you know, they just— their soul has left the building, their body needs to follow. And the longer you delay that decision and delay the pain, the more painful it gets. Right, uh, so quick review. You got the Leave, bottom left. You have the Lookout, which is the top left. You have the Lift, which is the bottom right. And again, those are guys that are true believers, but their work's not impressive. Uh, and then the top right, I really like— they phrase this as the, the Golden Handcuffs, uh, which is, in my opinion, it's love, right? These are the ones that you just, you want to heap love on, you want to keep, you want to like just push put all your energy and time into instead of putting all of your energy and time into the other 3 quadrants. Because those are the ones that, A, they buy into the mission, they buy into the vision, the values, but then they also do work that just inspires you. You know, they do impressive work, they own it, whatever your bar is. You know, like, you look at them and just say, I would want to go to war with this person, right? And the idea is that you put them into these different quadrants and it kind of inspires you to take action. And I think that was another piece that was missing for me is I've had people show me before, oh yeah, put them on this performance versus values axis and then, you know, like those are your A players, B players, and C players. And it was like, okay, now what? In this model, as Dan was explaining, it was like, oh, well these ones I need to move on in 60 days. These ones, you might not be 60, but I need to be watching out for any of their stuff. And maybe I need to go faster, maybe I need to go slower, you know, on the top left. And then over here on the top right or bottom right, like, I need to really coach, you know, coach and lift and move up. But that top right was like, what are you doing right now to show them the love? You know, are you making sure their pay is equal? Are you making sure that they're, you know, at the top of their personal market, as Reed Hastings over at Netflix likes to say? You know, are you making sure they're happy in their job? Are you having skip levels with them? Or like, whatever you need to do to make sure that they're, they're going to stick around and not surprise you with a resignation notice one day. And that's that top right. So we as a management team sat down and did this for the whole company, and then I challenged the managers. I said, look, wherever your people are at on the board, they need to know. And so like in the next 2 weeks during your one-on-ones, I want you to have this conversation, the same conversation we had. Have them put themselves on the board and just say, yeah, I think like I'm probably in about, you know, a 7 here and an 8 here. And then I want you to put them on the board with where you're at. And then you guys get to discuss the gap, right? Why did they think they were an 8 and why did you put them at a 4? Why did they think they were a 7 and you put them at a 9, right? Like discuss the gaps in those two numbers. And have the honest conversation about where you see them and where you see their future. And so I challenged my management team to do this, right? But then I did another thing, which was maybe to hold them accountable a little bit and make sure they had the conversation, is that I actually walked through this entire module with my staff during our last all-hands meeting, and I told them If your manager is not having the conversation, you go have the conversation with your manager. All right? Like, don't wait for your manager to tell you where they see you. You deserve to know at all times how your manager sees you. Go have the conversation, right? Push the envelope, push the buttons, and have that conversation. And the managers are in the room at the time we're doing this all-hands meeting. So they're all hearing it and they know now I can't hide anymore. I'm not going to, you know, like, I can't ignore this conversation. Because now the people are going to ask, right? And I'm hoping that everybody in the company will have that conversation with their managers if their manager hasn't had it already, so that they are crystal clear. Because that's all anybody really deserves and wants in life is clarity. They want to know where they stand. They want to know how, you know, they're moving forward and that the time and energy that they're putting into this job matters, right? They want to make sure that they're You know, if you read the, the 3 Signs of a Miserable Job, they want to make sure that they're not anonymous. They want to make sure that they're, you know, not irrelevant. They want to make sure they can measure their job and that they're doing well. And that honestly, it comes down to that relationship they have with their manager. So if you're in that position that you're managing somebody, have this conversation with them, put them on the box, and then have them put themselves in there, and then have the conversation about the gap. If you're somebody that reports to somebody else, have this conversation. Draw up your own box and tell them where you see you and ask them to rate you on the board, right? How do you see me, boss? How do you see me needing to improve? How do you see me on this scale? And what are you doing if I'm in the top right? How do we make sure that I never leave, right? That, you know, we've talked about doing instead of exit interviews, doing keep interviews or stay interviews. Where you ask, like, if you were to leave, why would you leave? Have those conversations with your boss. You know, boss, if I was going to leave, like, this would be what I would leave for, and this would be the reasons why I would leave. And if you're not in a place where you can have that, maybe it's not a safe space, maybe your boss isn't understanding, uh, then I would encourage you to leave, right? Like, there are places out there that can encourage and have a healthy level of, you know, not necessarily conflict but dialogue. Would probably be the right way to say that. You know, and you can find a place that treats you like a human being and still gets the job done, right? Like, there are places that do both. And, you know, I think everybody should have that type of environment, frankly, just because life's too short, right? We spend a third of our lives at work. You know, you don't need to waste a third of your life doing something for somebody that doesn't care about you. So that's going to be our episode for today. Would love to, if you have any other questions, you know, I can send out some resources. Just email us podcast@rtafleet.com. I'd probably be looking for a blog post on this one too. This was a really fun lesson that we did, especially as we go through and have some of the fallout from those discussions. You'll see some updates coming on the RTA blog talking about some of the, you know, implementing some of these things. So until next time, we'll see you on the flip side.

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