Episode 118 Busting the Top 3 Myths About Hiring Fleet Consultants

Hi everyone. Welcome to episode 118 of the Fleet Success Show. I'm your host this week, Mark Canton, and today I'll be joined by my colleagues Tony Yankovich and Steve Saltzgiver. We're going to be discussing busting the top myths about hiring fleet consultants today. So of course, I'll ask that you forgive us if it sounds like we're tooting our own horn a little bit. We don't mean to be, but we had received a lot of feedback from folks that essentially wanted to hear more about our experiences as fleet management consultants. So we're going to do a few different topics related to that. And the first one is going to be all about myths with regards to hiring a fleet management consultant. With that, let's do some quick introductions. I'm again, I'm your host. I'm Mark Yanton. I'm a veteran in the fleet industry. I've been in the fleet industry for about 27 years now. I'm a former executive over at Fordham University in New York City. I ran their transportation and fleet department for many years. I've been in consulting for many years as well and have spent a lot of time doing vehicle costing and sustainability transitioning. Now I'm the head of product and advisory services at RTA. And of course, I'm joined by some veterans of the show, Tony Jankovic, the director of advisory services at RTA. And Steve Saltzgiver, our Senior Fleet Success Advisor and 2-time Fleet Manager Hall of Famer. So I'll start with Tony. Tony, tell us a little bit about yourself for our listeners.

Thanks, Mark. Good to be here again. I've been in the fleet industry for over 35 years now. I started my career in local government. I worked there for about a dozen years, and then I went over after having a fleet study done on our fleet. I ended up joining the consulting firm a little bit later. And 23 years later, I've probably consulted to more than 400 fleet organizations from Belize to the upper Northern Territories in Canada. Through that time, I focus on fleet staffing analysis, fleet replacement, fleet maintenance facility programming and planning, and really the shop operations are areas of my expertise.

Great. Welcome, Tony. Steve, tell us a little bit about yourself.

You know, it's kind of interesting. I think we all three had consulting projects and then we joined and became consultants.

That's right.

That's what we share in common. So yeah, there's, there's one myth busted already, right?

There you go.

Brief introduction for me. I've been around the fleet business now for over 40 years. Former fleet directors for the state of Georgia, state of Utah. And then, of course, I was vice president with Republic Services and Coca-Cola North America. And as you mentioned, Mark, I was— I am a member of the Government Fleet Hall of Fame, also was a city fleet manager, and I also worked for 15 years at Utah Transit Authority. So I have kind of a diverse background in fleet management.

Yeah. So, you know, it's a really good point you made right off the box there, Steve. So, you know, a lot of, you know, not only are we currently consultants and we're in the industry and in the business, but all three of us were clients essentially of consultants, right? We were running fleets. We hired folks to come in and help us out. And so, when we speak to this stuff, we can kind of speak from experience on a lot of avenues in that way. So, let's start it off. You know, the one thing that I kind of hear a lot, you know, I'm sure you guys have heard all kinds of crazy things about what people expected and, you know, that kind of a thing. And one of the things is folks kind of think that it's always about auditing performance, right? It's always like an audit. In fact, they use that word sometimes. Especially on the government side, right? It's like this idea that we only get brought in because they're doing an audit, right? And I think it's a lot more to that. So what are you guys' thoughts on that, Miss?

Well, Mark, I think you're right. You know, in the government sector, audit generally has a negative connotation with that word. We're not in there to find fault. We're not in there to point fingers. As consultants in the fleet industry, what we are there for is to help organizations get better. We're there to identify opportunities for improvement. We're there to provide assistance and expertise in areas that they don't have. So really, I think just the term audit is not appropriate for what we do. We really are providing reviews and assessments and helping an organization develop a plan to get better.

You know, on that note, we're actually, we're unbiased third parties, essentially. We don't have a dog in the fight. We also are able to represent our clients as a third party and kind of present their case to their leadership of our findings and what were our recommendations and things that sometimes is difficult. I mean, many fleet managers know what we know even though they hire consultants. I mean, a lot of that is because they need that independent voice.

Well, like you said, Steve, a third party to come in and say, yeah, these requests for resources, let's say, are legitimate. And how can we, you know, how can we sort of prove that to you and show that to you? You know, those sorts of things. So a lot of times it's really helping to champion the cause of the fleet management program, I would say, you know, as opposed to, as you point out, an audit. It doesn't mean we can't do an audit, but I mean, I can't imagine. I mean, boy, it's so far and few between. I don't think I've We've been hired for a true audit-style review in many, many years at this point. So that's usually about continuous improvement, right? Making, making the fleet better. What are some other myths that you guys have heard through the years? I have a couple in my pocket here, but I'm wondering what are some things that you, that you guys have heard that, you know, you were shocked to hear?

Well, one that, one that always stands out to me, you know, is fleet consultants are too expensive. I don't have the budget for that. You know, that's one of the common myths that we always hear about. And, you know, I think after hiring consultants myself, I think that couldn't be farther from the truth, actually. You know, we're kind of a one-time resource, you know, to handle projects that are one-offs perhaps, or to do an assessment, and then we're gone. You know, we're definitely not as expensive as hiring a full-time employee that has benefits and, you know, things like that. So I think that really is a misnomer for the most part.

Well, and I'd add on to that a little bit. You know, a lot of people when they are talking about hiring a consultant to come in and look at their operation, they think of a general consultant. They look, they think of people who are, you know, straight out of college, white shirt, shiny shoes, you know, come into your organization and trying to tell you what to do. We're not that way. As fleet consultants, we all have real-world experience. We've all been there. We've all done that. We've been on, I like to say, we've been on their side of the table. Not only have we all managed fleets, not have we all, you know, maintained fleets, but we've been on the other end of consulting gigs. Some with great consultants who had a lot of expertise in our specific area, but we've also been in on engagements where they were generalist consultants and didn't necessarily have the expertise. They might have expertise in HR or logistics or, you know, inventory management, but not necessarily specifically in managing and running a fleet. And that's where we're different. I mean, we've been there. We feel more comfortable on the shop floor talking to the technicians and the parts clerks and the people that are actually turning wrenches and doing the work than we do necessarily in a boardroom talking to the CFO or elected officials. Although we do that and that's one of the roles that we play, you know, it's, we like to get down and dirty dirty, and we'd like to be on the shop floor.

Yeah, that's a, that's a great point. Yeah, one of, one of the things we hear a lot is consultants don't know our business, consultants don't know fleet management. And that's a great point. You know, I think, yes, we would say to that is, well, you hired the wrong consultant, right? There is, there is, there is something to that, right? You need folks who obviously, you know, have the appropriate experience, who are not generalists, that sort of thing. Obviously you could have that kind of folk on the team, but certainly you need, uh, you know, folks who really, you know, have the credentials to be able to look at something and say something that's going to actually help you out and help things improve. And listen, we certainly aren't the only fleet management consultants out there. There are, you know, plenty of, you know, great consultants, great qualified folks in the industry. But nonetheless, you do need to be careful about making sure you're getting an industry expert and someone who has the experience doing the kind of work and the kind of project or study that you're looking to execute. As opposed to a generalist or even potentially a fleet management consultant that's extremely specialized in an area that's not the area that you are focused on. But certainly there, you know, when we talk about this stuff, yeah, obviously we're reflecting on our experiences and, and ourselves as fleet management consultants. But you know, there are, there are a whole number of groups out there and, and people out there who do, can do a great job to help your fleet out. I'm sorry, Steve, were you going to say something else there?

Well, I was just going to say, I mean, a lot of the big 3 consultants, you know, that are out there that we compete with, they are the people that hire the shiny shoes, out-of-college people. We're completely opposite of that. You know, we really bank on having that knowledge rather than, you know, some of the college degree that people have. Although all 3 of us have college degrees, you know, so, you know, we also have that as well. But, you know, I think my intent with hiring our first consultant was really to satisfy a legislative objective that was happening to centralize a fleet, you know. And we had over 30 players that were involved in that equation. And so the legislature and governor stepped in and said, hey, we're going to solve this problem, you know, because there was a lot of infighting, a lot of fiefdoms and things like that going on. And so it allowed us, for example, to get everybody on the same page, so to speak, you know, and really look at what the objective was to make us more efficient internally.

Yeah. Yeah. You make a couple of good points there. I mean, hey, we've been hired to be subs for some of those big organizations when they realized we're a little bit over our heads here, folks. Yeah. So, yeah, no, you hit the nail on the head there. You need both. I mean, you need those analytic skills. You certainly having an academic background, no one's bashing that, but you also need that practical hands-on experience and be able to kind of put it all together, put together the complete picture. But, you know, going back to the expensive thing, guys, you know, one thought I wanted to express was, you know, if for many of the types of projects and the work that we do, there's a, you know, there's a direct return on investment, you know, we'll get into that in another podcast as far as the type of work and different kinds of projects, but Oftentimes what you spent is more than paid for by what you save if you implement the results of that study. So that's the other angle to sort of consider on the expense side. So yeah, it's—

And Mark, if you don't mind me jumping in and tagging on to that comment, but that's exactly true. A lot of organizations that we work with, maybe they can't justify a full-time fleet analyst position because there's just simply not the workload available or the resources or the money available to do that, where they can hire a fleet consultant as a part-time resource. So instead of hiring someone, paying them 2,080 hours a year, they hire a consultant to provide that service. Well, you're paying them half of that or a quarter of that and getting just using that resource when you need it.

Right. It's a great point.

Well, the same thing goes for writing policies and standard operating procedures and kind of those one-time, one-off projects that you don't have, you know, creating a succession plan, you know, things that you may not have time for because you're, you know, you're up to your eyeballs in managing a fleet. You know, you can bring someone in with that expertise to actually take on some of those side projects, right? Get them done, get them rolled out, right?

And I think that segues great into another thing I've heard, you know, kind of in the industry. Well, it's a one-time fix, and it's like, well, sort of when that's what it calls for, but a lot of times it's really a long-term fix. You know, what are you guys' thoughts on that?

Oh yeah, absolutely, Mark. In fact, one of the things that I pride ourselves in as Fleet Consultants is the amount of follow-on work that we do with clients, and not just as a way to earn more revenue, but simply as a way to continue that improvement opportunity and initiative with the clients. So many of our engagements, we can identify the issues, we can identify the areas for improvement, but not only that, but we can actually develop the implementation plan and we are the resource oftentimes to help them implement the improvement. So, you know, it doesn't stop when that report is provided to the client. That's really just the beginning. That's the roadmap. Now we can be the person or the people and the firm that can help them put those actions into place.

You know, one of the things too that's interesting, I mean, you can say to yourself many times, and we go into a lot of these fleets and they don't have a lot of documentation. You know, we're in a perfect storm situation now, I call it, you know, from our background. How do you do succession planning or how do you hire a new fleet manager or how do you hire new staff when you don't have policies, procedures, work instructions, you know, things at your disposal so you can bring in new team members when people are retiring, things like that. So oftentimes that's, that's a really good resource for fleet consultants is to help you identify and tackle those kind of projects.

Yeah, that's a, that's a great point. And, you know, I'm thinking about a job we've done recently, Steve, that you really were the heavy Lifter on, and it's kind of like, you know, this organization is having a tough time getting someone in to lead the fleet. And it's because, frankly, part of the reason I think anyway, it's my opinion that maybe it just wasn't attractive because there's just so much to do to get the fleet turned around. Right. And so, you know, we sent you in who I affectionately call the fleet whisperer. Right. And really kind of get the ball going in the right direction and get things going right. And to Tony's point, walk hand in hand with implementing the corrections for folks, actually literally help them do it. Boots on the ground. And now, of course, we can get someone into position who can kind of take it from there. So it's not really one time. It's more like for all time, I would argue, if you're kind of, you know, following through and implementing these things, you know, properly. And that's not to say that you're going to rebuild Rome in a day, right? You know, Steve, you like to talk about the critical few. You know, a lot of times these are long-term plans, but that doesn't mean you can't make gains quickly. Right? There's usually a lot of low-hanging fruit. You can make a lot of gains very quickly, and then you kind of continue on. And again, it's a journey of continuous improvement. So it's a real interesting thought.

Yeah. Well, and we've helped them write strategic plans. You know, it takes a great amount of effort to do that. You know, and so we can help them do that and put a direction in place. The last myth, or one of the last myths we talk about is, you know, consultants can be a disruption in our operation, I think. You know, and it can be sometimes, but let's talk about that a little bit.

Yeah, well, I'll start with, yeah, I think that's a good— maybe you're not hiring the right consultant again. But yeah, it's a good point. You know, the right consultant will be very sensitive to that. And to your point, Steve, it may disrupt a little bit, but only in as much as you don't have certain things handy to you that ought be handy to you, if that makes any sense. Right. And so, and so what little disruption it causes early on usually will pay, actually pay dividends for the fleet organization down the road, if that makes any sense. I don't know, Tony, maybe you can articulate that better than I or have another thought.

Well, I don't think I can. But what I will add to that is, you know, since we've all been there and done that, we understand that fleet is not going to stop. The maintenance repair activities are not going to stop simply because, you know, someone's hired a fleet consultant to come in and look at their operation. There's still gonna be work going on the shop floor. The, the parts are still gonna be delivered and nothing's gonna change when it comes to that. We may interrupt and we may borrow a technician for an hour or two here or there. So there might be some disruption, but we're very sensitive to that. We know that work is gonna continue regardless of if we're there or not. We're just there to help them manage that process and get through the, the, the work.

And we've realigned our schedules as we're on the ground to accommodate that as well.

Yeah. Well, and one of the things I like that we do is, you know, we'll leave interviews and we'll leave site visits, you know, with things that can help them straight away. Right. So in other words, it's not waiting for the end of the engagement or something like that. It's, hey, this is, you know, hey, you know, you have this piece of data or do you know what's going on over here? And no, I can't figure that out. Well, fine. And let's open it up. We're going to show you how to do it right now.

Right?

And they walk away being able to implement those sorts of things immediately.

So, you make a good point. I mean, at the bottom, at the end of the day, what we really are are fleet educators.

Yeah.

Right? We help. I mean, many times I've been on site and not related to the project, I'm being asked questions about how I can do this different or how they can improve this. And, you know, so I mean, we're just a resource, an expert resource for these people.

Right. Yeah, that's a great point.

You know, and as fleet consultants, just because we're the consultant doesn't mean we're any smarter than anybody else. But what we have the, the value and advantage of seeing what everybody else is doing. I mentioned I've been in probably 400 different organizations and seen, seen the best fleets throughout North America, and I've seen some of the worst. But what we can do is take what the fleet before them that we're working with, something that they're doing great. We'll bring that to the next client and we'll, we'll, that might be a recommendation that's reasonable for them. So what we're doing is taking the best from all of our previous engagements and taking that to our next client.

Yeah.

I'll take that one step further. If you remember, I actually was a consultant for about 6 or 7 years and I went back to become a fleet manager. And that's one of the reasons exactly that I did that is because I had learned so much more than I knew before. That I thought, man, I want to apply this to the new— a new gig. So, so yeah, it was, it was good. I'm glad I did that, you know. So it worked out really well for me in my career.

So for those of you listening, that's the, the script for how to become a Fleet Management Hall of Famer. Go into consulting, leave, apply everything you learned in a real operation again, and then come back. That's great.

We call that the Steve itch. Every, every 4 or 5 years he wants to go back and get his hands dirty and actually manage, manage the fleet and He's one of the best at it.

Yep. Undiagnosed ADHD when I was a kid.

But it's like, no, you hear stories about that, right? Like, you know, if you read business news about CEOs and so forth and they build a reputation of being folks who come in, they turn around a company and they kind of, you know, keep rolling. And Steve, there's an element of that with you with Fleet, right? You go in, you turn around fleets, you get them rolling how they should be and, and, and go from there. But All right, guys, I'm going to give you one that's kind of like my— I guess I'll use the word favorite myth. And I try not to giggle at it and be sensitive, but it's, you know, our fleet is too unique. We are like nobody else on the planet. And so you can't help us kind of a thing, right? We hear that sometimes. What are your thoughts there?

You know, Mark, we hear that all the time, whether it be a law enforcement fleet, whether it be a transit fleet, a school bus fleet. you know, a private trucking fleet, uh, we hear that all the time.

Construction, utilities. Oh yeah, exactly.

Absolutely. It goes on and on. And oh no, we, you know, we use ours, our vehicles, you know, in more severe duty than anybody else. It's like, you know, we've, we've been there, we've seen it, but we understand every organization does have unique challenges, unique obstacles. And, and we understand that and we do our diligence to dig in and find those. But you know what, the, the fundamental principles of managing and maintaining a fleet are very similar from organization to organization.

Definitely.

Well, I can tell you firsthand, I've managed a city fleet, a county fleet, a state fleet, a corporate fleet, a transit fleet. I'm probably missing some here, but I can tell you—

Transportation fleet.

Yes, transportation. They're trucking. They are 99.9% about the same. I actually prepared a presentation to speak at a conference one time on that exact topic, the difference between you know, public and private fleets. And as I prepared that, I went, wow, you know, these are almost identical. I mean, there are a few things different, maybe in the way the fleets are funded, right? You know, things like that. But I mean, essentially, the same skill set are there. And so it really hasn't changed a lot.

And I mean, Steve, I mean, again, that case that I was just talking about, I mean, a remote island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, We've worked with folks way up in remote parts of Alaska and Northern Canada.

Yeah, Yellowknife, Canada.

I remember.

Yeah. So again, like Tony said, you know, I want to be clear. Absolutely every fleet is unique and has its unique challenges. But those are sort of the things sort of around the edges that you kind of figure out how to come, you know, you kind of put your your thinking caps on and we figure that out. But the principle that you're trying— what you're trying to accomplish kind of remains the same. It's just a matter of understanding those circumstances and figuring out how to work with them. Do you think that's fair? I think that's kind of a— yeah, one way to put it. But the other one that I see a lot, and folks know where I'm from, I've said it in the past, I won't repeat it so as to not get myself in trouble here, but I hear this a lot in the region that I live. Which is basically, we know better. We don't need somebody from the outside, right? We don't need external advice. It kind of ties into that unique thing, right? It's like, we're so unique, we're so different, we're so special. But, but it's basically kind of like, we know best. And so why would we need help from a third party?

You know, I think, at least in my opinion, we all need external advice. My wife tells me that all the time. I need external advice. So, I, you know, I actually, I'm open ears and I think, you know, external advice from consultants that have been, I mean, I've been on hundreds of projects myself. Tony's been on hundreds of projects. I think we do have a perspective to lend, you know, to people who have that question. At the end of the day, I guess the proof is in the pudding and what we provide is, you know, recommendations, but I think that, uh, it's, it's a fallacy, it's a fallacy, essentially.

Well, and think about it, you know, we all strive for perfection, but not one of us is perfect.

Right.

There's always room for improvement. So, you know, a different perspective looking at your operation is just gonna help you get better. So I, I think it's really a valuable, um, uh, service that we provide.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I, I, I, I think that's, that's it exactly right. It's, it's if, If you really think that there's nothing left for you to learn, well, then what the heck are you still doing that for?

Right.

Move on to the next challenge in your life. Right. Maybe become a consultant and get out there and teach everybody all the things you know better than everyone else. Right. So, you know, I have a tough time with that one as well. Don't really know what to say other than you got to be open-minded. You got to be willing to allow yourself to be examined so that you can continuously improve. It's all about keep improving, keep getting better.

Keep learning. Yeah.

My dad used to say to me, "Dying and learning, Camden. Dying and learning." And he was literally in hospice reading some fascinating thing in a science journal and was in love with the fact that he was still learning more about the world, right? And it's true. Never stop learning. So, the other, you know, there's a couple more here, but I'll try to get to a few that I hear a lot if you guys want to throw some more in. But, you know, We kind of run into this a bit, right? It's kind of like, well, but we've always done it this way. Why do we need to change it? You know? So that's kind of a fun one to tackle. What do you guys think about that?

Absolutely. I mean, most people are afraid of change. Most people don't want to change because it requires additional effort. People like the status quo. They're comfortable with it. They know what to do. It's not strenuous for them. So they like doing what they've been doing for the last 5, 10, 15 years. What they don't realize is a lot of the improvements and a lot of the changes that we recommend are really going to be there to help them in the future. It's going to make their job easier. It's going to help them justify, you know, requests for additional technicians. It's going to help them justify additional funds for fleet replacement. So, you know, you really need to continue to evolve as a fleet manager and as a fleet professional and you know, there's a lot of resources out there. There's a lot of things that you can read and pick up and network with your peers. But again, as Fleet Consultants, we're that resource as well.

Well, and essentially as Fleet Consultants, we're change agents. We can even write change management plans to help people get through that change. So, I mean, it's really, you know, kind of in our portfolio to do that. Personally, I change everything all the time. I mean, you know, I'll gain 100 pounds, I'll lose 100 pounds. I'll, you know, I'll change my furniture up in the house. You know, I'm always— I love change. You know, drives my wife crazy sometimes, but that's just the way I am. And so I never understood that. Whenever I hear that comment, I'm always like, okay, we need to slay that sacred cow right away. You know, so because change is inevitable. If you fear change, then you're in the wrong business, especially in fleet. I mean, think about all the progress and all the innovation and all the things that have happened in the last 10 to 20 years. I mean, it's incredible.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, so, so this is kind of how I think about it. It's, you know, I'd rather— I'd much rather work on and think about and talk about how to instead of why not. Right. And I think that was one of the things that attracted me to consulting is, you know, I was just I was just kind of tired of every time a good idea happened or something was identified that really needed to happen. And, you know, you sit in a room and everybody in the room is giving you all the reasons why not. And it's kind of like, you know, no, there's a way we can do this, you know. And figuring out how to is, again, it's going to just make you better. It's going to make you better personally. It's going to make your organization better. And, you know, one of the things I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I know you guys well enough to say I think you agree with this and believe this is that You know, one of the reasons I think that we love fleet as much as we do is we recognize it as a vital service to our community, right? You know, if you're in a government fleet, you know, the service you're providing to your citizens or the operators that you're providing fleet services to provide to the citizens, you know, even in a corporate setting, right? This world is dependent on trucking and logistics and construction and all, you know, literally to make this world, to make this country go round, right? And so, You know, we look at it as, you know, helping fleets succeed is really helping the world succeed. It's helping communities succeed. There's a value to society that hopefully we're contributing to, you know. And so for some of these myths that we've talked about today, if you find yourself being one of the folks who are maybe resistant to it or not really looking to improve or to help or resistant to change, it's kind of like, well, I'll implore you to consider, you know, don't you have a duty to the, to the folks who are counting on you and depending on you to constantly push to make that fleet, you know, somehow better, even if it's just small increments, just a little bit better, you know. And so that's kind of my thought, you know, around that one. You know, I think we have an obligation to constantly be trying to improve ourselves, our organizations, etc., etc., you know.

So if you're not, you'd be awfully boring anyway.

Right.

That's a good one. That's a good point.

Can I ask you guys a question? Sure. I'm sure you guys have seen the movie Office Spaces.

Oh yeah.

And that was a tremendous movie and it gave consultants the spotlight for a while. And I think what a lot of people need, you know, all joking aside, a lot of people need to understand is just because an organization hires a consultant doesn't mean they're looking to privatize the operation. It doesn't mean they're looking to downsize. Although a lot of times when in our first initial, you know, meetings with the technicians and some of the line personnel, The first question is, hey, are they trying to let me go? You know, and that's very rarely the case.

Right.

Almost never. Yeah, that's a great point. You know, it's really to gain insight and to try to understand what's going on there. Or it might be to accomplish a specific goal. You know, we know we need to get from A to B and we either don't know how to get to B or we don't have the resources to push us to B. Right. And that's often really what's, what's, you know, what's going on there. All right, you guys have any other thoughts on that? Any other myths or any things that you've heard out there that you wanted to throw into the ring here?

I've covered the ones I know. I think you beat it up pretty good, actually. All right.

Yeah, those are the top ones that I can think of, Mark.

Yes, sure.

Yeah, so, you know, obviously in the comments, depending where you're listening to this, you know, let us know, give us your thoughts. You know, are there other myths that we didn't cover that you'd like us to comment on in maybe a future podcast? If you have any questions or you want some additional information, don't hesitate. Reach out to me. Reach out to the guys. You can email podcast@rtafleet.com if you like, and please do share opinions. What are topics you want us to discuss? What are questions? I think, I think in a few weeks we might be trying to do a mailbag session where we just answer questions from the audience. So please send us your thoughts there. Send us your questions. And thanks for tuning in this week, really appreciate it. Tony, Steve, thank you for your time, appreciate you helping me out on this one. And thanks for tuning in everyone, we'll see you next time. Take care.

Till next time, have a good one.