Episode 119: Why Do You Need a Fleet Consultant?

Welcome to episode 119 of the Fleet Success Show. My name is Tony Yankovich and I'll be your host today. I'm lucky to be joined by a couple of my colleagues here at RTA today, Mark Canton and Steve Saltzgiver. This is part 2 of our 3-part series talking about fleet consultants. And in this episode, we're going to talk about the reasons why you might want to hire an industry expert or a fleet consultant. So, for those of you that don't know me, my— again, my name is Tony Jankovich, and I am the Director of Advisory Services for RTA's Fleet Consulting Group. I have more than 35 years of experience in the fleet industry. I've conducted more than 400 fleet studies for clients of all sizes and types across North America over the last 23 years and started my career in fleet with a local government agency. Mark, if you don't mind, would you go ahead and introduce yourself?

Yeah, sure. I'm sure folks are getting kind of tired of hearing about it, so I'll try to keep it brief. But I've been in fleet for about 27 years, most of that time in the higher ed industry. I was also, as most folks, I fell into fleet. Started out as a transportation director and sort of special event coordinator, a lot of logistics. I then went into consulting where at some point I became the senior manager for fleet management analytics. And I really enjoyed that because it got me exposure to pretty much every industry all across the country. So really, really enjoyed that time. And now here at RTA, I'm the head of product. I'm helping to design the software with, along with the product team and the product managers there. And of course, I'm trying to chip in a little bit with your department, Tony, and with the Fleet Advisory Services and Consulting.

Great. Thanks, Mark. Glad to have you with us today. Steve, would you introduce yourself?

Yeah, I'm currently the Fleet Success Senior Advisor for RTA. Been a former fleet manager, fleet vice president, fleet director for government and corporate. And lastly, I'm in the Government Hall of Fame. So that's kind of my brief summary.

Well, great. Thanks, Steve. And I think the important thing to note is that, you know, we've all been there. We've all done that. We've all managed fleets. We've all been working in shops, so we understand the industry. And I think the other important thing to note is that between the 3 of us, and I don't know if you guys have put the numbers on paper yet, but there's about 100 years of fleet experience between the 3 of us. So quite a bit. So hopefully during those years of working in fleets and managing fleets and helping other fleets succeed, that we've picked up a thing or 2 along the way. So as I'm gonna—

I gotta stop hanging out with you guys. People are gonna think I'm old.

I was gonna say, I mean, more importantly, We've all worked together for how long, right?

Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Yes. Very true. Very true. Well, Mark, if I took my hat off, you'd see I don't have much gray hair because I don't have much hair.

Oh yeah. Mine are showing through, huh?

Yeah.

Matt already all the way.

So it's great. It's great talking with you guys because you really are the experts in the, in the industry and, and you are the go-to people when it comes to providing fleet management consulting services. And what we're going to talk about are the reasons that, that people should at least consider hiring a fleet consultant. And again, this is not meant to be a pitch for RTA's Fleet Consulting Group. There's a lot of good fleet consultants out there. We just hope that if you do choose to hire a consultant to help your organization, that, that you definitely look for an expert in the industry and, and, and pick a qualified, experienced fleet consultant to help you get through that. So what we'd like to do today is talk a little bit about the reasons that an organization might hire a fleet consultant. And with that, what I'd like to do is just open it up to Steve and Mark and get your thoughts. What do you think are some of the primary reasons that an organization might need or want to hire a fleet consultant?

Yeah, I mean, you know, there's really a whole bunch. Obviously, one of them is to assess. You know, what is, what is the program? Where, where are we at today and where can we grow and improve? Trying to essentially optimize performance. You know, that's something that comes in a lot. And I'll kind of speak a little bit in generalities. I think the, the next or another big bucket is when there's something to be done or said about resources, right? There's a big decision or perhaps leadership is hearing about resource needs that are on MET or that sort of a thing. And, and then from there, you know, I think there's, there's an element of when there's more work than realistically can get done by the staff on hand and you essentially need an outside push. So I think they kind of fall into those major categories. And then, and then maybe we'll go into, you know, some of the kinds of jobs that we see sort of commonly. But I don't know, I think Everything kind of falls into those 3 buckets, right? It's kind of like assessing performance and looking for low-hanging fruit or big, big rocks maybe that we need to go tackle to make ourselves better. You know, hey, there's too much work. We don't have the resources to get that done, this job or this goal or this something. Let's go get it accomplished. And then, hey, we need to do something different with our resource allocation, right? How do we solve that problem? How do we put the resources where they need to be? How do we get the blood flow, as Josh might say, right? Josh Turley, our CEO. How do we get the blood flow going to the right place? That sort of a thing. So I don't know, would you guys agree? Would they fall into those major buckets?

I think I agree with that. I think mainly, you know, unfortunately I guess that many of the engagements that we have are usually happen above the fleet manager, which is in my estimation unfortunate because I think fleet managers should be intricately involved in that. They should be the one that seeks the advice. I think usually when you get to that point, then it becomes more of an assessment or a best practice audit type of thing. But, you know, there's so many different things you can use a fleet consultant for. We've all been involved in many projects, anything from a one-off project just to do something like writing policies and procedures to a complete and full-scale assessment of your fleet operation.

I think you guys have both made great points. And I think what we need to understand is, you know, we talk a lot about the changing world of fleet, how vehicles are much more complex, how we're transitioning to electric vehicles in many instances, how technicians' training has changed. You know, we've talked a lot about that. But the other thing we haven't talked much about is how the role of a fleet consultant has changed as well. We're not simply coming in to an organization and tell them where they can be better, what they can do to, you know, reduce costs and increase efficiencies. We're also there as a helping hand. You know, Mark made a great point about additional resources. You know, many organizations are not in a position to hire additional support staff. And as a fleet consultant, we can fill that void for them. So I think that's a great comment, Mark.

Yeah, thanks. And I think, you know, it's almost like, you know, I think sort of, I would argue that the best fleets or the most sophisticated, let's say, or mature fleets, they almost have, uh, someone, a fleet consultant or two, right, on speed dial because they recognize, to your point, you know, hey, I may not need them on my everyday operations, but when we have these, when we have some change that we need to manage, or when we have, let's say, a project, um, you know, what are our choices? We can ask Fleet to to stop working every day and try to go get it done. Or we can bring somebody in who, you know, knows our fleet, understands our situation, and can kind of help us go from A to B. And in that regard, those are the best engagements, right? Like, just to Steve's point, I mean, I love it when we're partners with the fleet manager and the fleet team. And that's sort of the vibe around an engagement because those go the best and the organizations get the most out of those, you know, and so. You know, I think that's a great point you're making there, Tony.

I would agree with that.

We had one client, I remember, that actually had our company on retainer.

Right.

So, yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, that said, whenever they needed us, they just reached out to us. A lot of companies reach out to us because we're on some of these cooperative agreements, you know? And so it makes it easy for them to acquire a fleet consultant, you know? So. Whatever the case may be, you know, I mean, it's something if you have it readily at hand and you need some immediate help, you know, you can reach out to, you know, and we're not unique. I mean, there's other fleet consultants like ourselves, but I think that's what's important is that you have that ready available when you need it.

Well, I think that's a great point. And I would also like to add that, you know, we're not just helping the fleets that are struggling. One of my favorite clients that I've worked with over the years is a fleet organization in the Pacific Northwest where they are one of the most progressive and one of the best-run fleets that I've ever worked with. And they engage us every couple of years just to keep pushing them further and further down the road. I mean, they are probably the best fleet I've worked with as a consultant, yet they still reach out and want to pick our brains and challenge us us as consultants of, you know, where can we find efficiencies? Where can we get better? What can we do differently? And they are constantly looking to change. So I think that's important as well. But those are, those are all great comments. So let's get into some of the actual, you know, projects and the types of work that, that we can provide to different clients.

Well, you know, Tony, Steve and I did a session, I think it's maybe 2 episodes ago. It was on fleet finance. And so, You know, we talked a lot. It was kind of two different ones there that we talked a lot about that I think are relevant here, and that's cost allocation, you know, efforts, and also developing a cost chargeback system, right? So that's an area where I really think leveraging a consultant can help. Oftentimes organizations will leave that up to finance and accounting, and I'm sure those folks do a great job, but there's sort of a gap, right? There's what's going on in fleet, and the folks in the fleet department understand that, and the folks, other folks understand numbers. And I think what a good consultant can do is really bridge that gap and make, and make those two different languages one language and understand that the data has context and really get the most out of that, right? You don't want a chargeback system just to go through the motions, right? You want, you want to really make sure it's doing what it's supposed to do, which is helping you have very great transparency and visibility on your costs and helping to drive or incentivize really good behavior and stewardship of your fleet. So, you know, that's one that jumps out. And the other one I'll just kind of drop in and hear what your guys' thoughts is. Replacement planning. Boy, replacement planning is tough, man. And, you know, you have to stop— again, it's another one of those things. Does fleet stop what they're doing? Do you have someone who doesn't understand fleet go do it? Right. It's kind of a— can be challenging, especially when you're talking about developing a long-term strategic plan. Right. Prioritizing for next year is one thing. But that's the mistake that many fleets make, right? They, you know, they look only for next year or even 5 years out, as far as I'm concerned, is really not long-term enough. So I think those are very natural ones where we can come in or any, you know, good quality consultant can come in. They understand the financials, but they also understand the context within the fleet itself. And they can develop a really solid strategic plan for you and help you figure out, all right, well, what are my funding needs? What are my financing needs, etc.? So I don't know, Steve, you have different thoughts or?

[Speaker:STEVE] You make a really good point, Mark. I remember I took over a fleet as a fleet vice president and the first thing I tried to tackle was a fleet cost chargeback, you know, process in that fleet. And when I went to the finance people, they said, "Oh, we've already been there. We've already done that. It's a lot of extra work for us." And a lot of that is because they didn't understand the motivation. They didn't understand the importance of that. You know, they thought it, they looked at it as just simply an extra exercise in futility for them. You know, and so I had to sit down and I had to educate them essentially, you know, to your point earlier, that's what the fleet manager needs to do, you know, to create that transparency. You know, I've always liked that comment from one of my former mentors that says, you know, people make decisions with their feet, you know, and, you know, and so if you make a decision based on cost, You know, you need to be able to explain that cost and be able to justify that cost, right?

Right.

Because we're all consumers. We all consume. We all go to sales. We all, you know, look at costs. And fleet is universally that way. I mean, you can go out, we all own cars. We can all go to an outside vendor and we know how much that's going to cost us. Right. Right. And so if you, if you can't articulate that in a cost chargeback system to one of your customers, or you have a cost chargeback system or an internal service rate, like a labor rate that's off, then you're going to articulate the wrong cost message to your clients, your customers.

Right. Yeah.

Well, absolutely, guys. And Mark, you said, you used the term context a couple of times, and Steve, you've alluded to it just a minute ago. And I think that is so important. You know, we've all worked with great analysts and great number crunchers. They could run circles around me using Excel spreadsheets, but if they don't understand in the context of some of these numbers and assumptions that you're using, then the rates are going to be wrong. The replacement plan is going to be wrong. The data's, even though the math is correct, the information's not correct. So it's really important to understand in a fleet context of what those numbers are.

Yeah, that's a great point because, you know, what you can get there is worse than no decision. You know, you can get really the wrong decision essentially, right? You can use those numbers and think you're doing everything right. Right. And kind of in a sense you are, but if you don't have that context, boy, you could really mess it up. So that's a great point, Tony.

Absolutely. I remember a case in point in one of my gigs where I had an analyst bring me an actual Excel document with a graph and there was 3 or 4 different spikes on that graph, dips and highs and lows. And I'm going, well, what is that? I don't know. That's just what the data showed me. Well, I need to know that.

That's More to the point.

Yeah, when you have a movement like that, you know, that's detrimental or, you know, potentially so. Yeah, and to your point, if they didn't know how to understand or interpret it, that's what the fleet manager has to do.

But Steve, was it a pretty graph?

It was a very pretty graph, yeah.

Right. Exactly.

It's just that our costs had tripled in 2 months, you know, I didn't know what was going on there.

Well, you know, and Mark, I know I don't want to steal your thunder here, but you tell the story quite often of a lifecycle analysis work that we've done a little bit where the labor rate actually impacted the optimal replacement cycle. You want to, you want to touch on that just real quickly?

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's really important. We did a study once. Well, we've done this many times actually. It's— but the one that's jumping out to me is I think they used a crazy low rate, like $55 an hour or something to that effect. And in the region that they existed, there was just no way. We knew that. They insisted on us performing the Optimate Replacement Cycle. We did it. We were getting just crazy results, right? Replacing assets in 30 years and stuff like that. And we implored them to consider. We said, look at your neighbors. These are what other folks are replacing. Please, let's reconsider. We'll do the math for you. And we calculated what we think their labor rate ought to have been. And it was, you know, in like the $135 an hour. And it dramatically reduced the lifecycle of the asset, right? Because if you're understating maintenance and repair costs, then necessarily it's going to signify, you know, it's going to imply that you should be keeping that vehicle longer. It's going to flatten out the right side of that curve. And so it's really important. But if you're not doing the allocation, you're not doing the chargeback, and if you don't understand the, you know, the context of the data, you'll, you know, do that all day. I can tell you right now, You know, there are a lot of fleets out there that just have a placeholder number and they're shooting themselves in the foot and then they wonder why they can't get their vehicles replaced.

And that's why. That's actually more common than anybody realizes, Mark.

Yeah.

They always want that lower rate, you know?

Right. Well, yeah. They think it makes them look good.

They want the— Exactly. They're so worried about competing with, you know, external fleet shops that they want their labor rate to be lower than everybody else's. Well, what you really want is an accurate labor rate because Because without an accurate labor rate, you have no idea of how competitive you are as an operation.

Right.

So guys, you know, one of the other things that, that a lot of organizations use consultants for is to identify opportunities to reduce costs. You know, one of the areas where we are able to do that is to help them optimize their fleet size and, and the type of, of assets in their fleet. You guys wanna touch on that a little bit?

Yeah.

Well, I can tell you firsthand, I'll, I'll start, Mark. I can tell you firsthand. I've done two right-sizing fleet studies as a manager, and one of them right off the bat, of a fleet of about 10,000 vehicles, we saved 10%. We were able to reduce the fleet by 10%. Well, you think about the enormity of that cost savings, and that was because we started to understand our utilization of the fleet, right? Right. And we found out what our spare ratio was, and we found out we didn't need as many assets as we had. You know, so, you know, that was, that was millions of dollars, you know, in a large trucking organization.

So, yeah, you know, on the flip side of that, that's, that's one of my favorite types of studies only because there's, I mean, there's, there's pretty much always a return on investment, right, for the client, right? So we, we, we, you will often save multiple times what it costs for, for that consultant study if they do that job right. And one of the big things I, I kind of like to try to spotlight, let's say, is it's not always a downsizing, right? People hear rightsizing and they jump to downsizing. And to Steve's point, they found they didn't need as many assets. And folks can sometimes be sort of protective around that. And, you know, the truth is, yeah, sometimes you find there are too many assets and you can change them. But a lot of that is right typing, you know. Do you have the correct vehicle or the correct asset for the work that's being done? And, you know, Tony, you and I did a study maybe at this point it's about 5 years ago where we actually recommended that they increase their fleet by almost a third, if I recall. But from the right typing that we also identified, we still reduced their overall fleet costs. So, you know, it's an important thing. If you're not looking at your fleet, if you're not keeping your fleet with the appropriate quantity and the appropriate type, I guarantee you're leaving money on the table. And by the way, those things are connected, right? That replacement. What's one of the things we always see? If you have an old fleet, it is almost a sure thing you have too many vehicles as well, right? Because they go hand in hand to Steve's point about spare ratios, right? People are worried about the vehicle being down, so they keep more of them around. Right. It's just that simple.

So you get that hoarding mentality.

Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right.

Well, a great point. You know, I think the other thing that fleet consultants can help an organization with is justifying staffing levels. You know, back in the day when I was working in fleet, for the local government, you know, we would go up there and we were the experts. So we could go in front of the, the city council at the time and say, you know, we need 2 more technicians and this is why. And really it was our gut instinct. It was our experience. It was our expertise. That doesn't fly anymore. So how, how could we help an organization justify staffing levels?

Well, I mean, certainly I, I, I, one of the big things that we like to do is take a very analytical approach and a data-driven approach, right? So, you know, we use both a combination of those analytics and the experience folks like Steve and yourself have with running the shop. So, but you can do things like calculate what are demand hours. Essentially, you know, I'll steal from your lines, Tony. You know, you talk about, you know, workforce, you know, workload and workplace and how they're interconnected, right? And so we can look at those 3 things and essentially come up with a very solid data-driven result for you, fundamentally, about exactly how many technicians you need, how many parts staff you need to support that, do you need a service writer, etc., etc. And obviously there are other factors, right? There are factors— how many shops are you running, uh, what's the nature of the assets that you're, you're working with, what's your location, do you have a remote location, do you not, uh, you know, all sorts of things. What is your ability to outsource? So There's a lot of factors that need to go into it that all go into, let's say, the numerator. And we do the math and it both goes— it's kind of a combination of experience, you know, and the math. But I think that's a key one because it's really hard for folks to justify how many folks they need. And right now with what's going on in the industry and the lack of qualified technicians and therefore the rising cost of those technicians, that's kind of a hot topic right now. I don't know, your thoughts, Steve?

Well, and to your point, there's a lot of variables.

Yeah.

You know, every fleet for all intents and purposes is kind of unique, you know, in their location. And that's why I like those 3 categories that you mentioned, Tony, is because we've been to some workplaces that, you know, the parts operation is far removed from the floor, you know? So that's going to take a little bit more time, you know, to get a part to a mechanic. Some shops we go to that we do skill assessments of the technicians that are not capable to do certain things, so they got to outsource more work. You know, so there's, there's a number of different factors that you really have to consider, you know, before you can, you know, right-size that staff optimally.

Yeah, absolutely, Steve. Great point. You know, there's another area that, that we get, we do a lot of work in, and it's not very exciting. It's not one of the top things that people want to talk about because it's difficult to understand. It's difficult to do. But it's fleet policies and procedures. You know, having a robust fleet management handbook. And it's very important to have something that governs your fleet and guides people in their day-to-day activities using fleet assets. So, you know, what kind of services can we or a fleet consultant provide when it comes to fleet SOPs?

Well, I remember one project I wrote 15 SOPs for a city fleet, you know, because they didn't have any, you know, and of course, that's a lot of collaboration with the partner of, you know, the client. But it puts in place a mechanism for, you know, succession planning and for, you know, consistency, you know. And so a lot of people don't have those. I think you need those. We're specifically in a situation now where, you know, so many people are coming in and out of the fleet industry. You've got to have some baseline.

Right.

Exactly. You know, I did a session I did a session recently on technician recruitment and retention. And one of the things that we found about the latest generation entering the workforce is the average time that they stay in a position is about 2 years. So they're moving on. These are not long-term employees that, you know, Steve, you and I, and Mark, you know, we were all at our previous engagement, our previous, you know, work or fleet for a number of years. Nowadays, people are jumping ship. After, you know, months, not years. And it's very important, I think, to have, you know, some people call 'em a desk reference manual where, you know, somebody leaves the desk today, somebody else can sit there and have a document that will guide their activities and at least let them know how to, hey, what are the steps that I need to take to order fuel every day or once a week?

Right.

You know, so, so having that reference point is so important.

Yeah. And I, I just think that that project is almost tailor-made for for bringing in a consultant, right, in the sense that it's tedious work, right? And it does— if you're trying to do it in the midst of your everyday, it's really, really challenging because you got a shop to run, you got your fire helmet on. So, having someone come in and kind of develop those for you alongside of you really is often a major benefit to getting it done. I can't tell you how many organizations I've come across where it's, "Hey, all right, share with us your policies," and Well, it's in draft and this is in draft. And how long has it been in draft? You know, it's, they just can't get around to it because the everyday kind of gets in the way. And in particular to Fleet, you want someone who has been around the block so that if there is a policy where you don't really know what you ought to be saying about your organization, they can help you. They can, you know, show you examples from other organizations they've worked with, that sort of a thing to kind of get you over the finish line. And Steve, to your point, not only consistency and succession planning, but I mean, I'm imagining training is a big one and frankly, risk management, right? The way our legal system works is, did you do everything reasonable that a fleet manager ought to have done or an organization ought to have done? And if you don't have policies and procedures, boy, you're not going to pass that test, right?

So it's not reasonable not to have them.

Exactly.

Exactly.

So, yeah. Yeah.

Well, and that ties into compliance, that ties into risk management, that ties into overall safety of the operators and the fleet and the public. So that, that's a great point, guys.

Well, those are some other projects like compliance. I, I've been brought in to do a mock DOT audit on a client, you know, because they had so many DOT infractions that they're about ready to shut down their fleet. So we went in and did a mock audit, helped them bring their fleet policies and procedures in place. We helped them bring up their DVIR program. You know, their maintenance program, everything related to that. So, and the, and this was happening to be in California, which is even more difficult with BIT inspections and everything else.

Sure.

So it allowed them to, to really have compliance objectives upfront, be more proactive rather than be reactive to an audit where they might get shut down.

Well, that's a great point because, you know, it, it, for those organizations that wait too long, it's gonna be a real consequence if they get dinged by the state inspectors, they get DOT issues. So it's very important to be be on the front end or cutting edge of that, those type of compliance audits. You know, the other thing that we're seeing as a company, the need for actual temporary resources, temporary fleet managers. Steve, you're the best in the business at this and people oftentimes seek you out to be that stopgap person. You know, the longtime fleet manager has retired. They're having difficulty filling that role. They need someone to come in, whether it be for 2 months or or 2 years to actually sit in the chair and provide those services as a fleet director.

Yeah, I've seen that more and more. And in our previous association as Fleet Management, we called that the perfect storm where we have a lot of people retiring and a lot of new people coming in and, and the skill sets are completely different now. And so a lot of the newer people have more analytical skills. A lot of the older fleet managers came up from the floor, and so they have more practical or perfunctory skills. And there's not a way to merge those anymore, or at least at this point, you know. And so you really perform as an interim fleet manager more of an education role, I would say. You can analyze data all you want, but if you don't know what the data means, as we've talked about, it's very difficult to make a decision. Right? There needs to be a little bit of that practical knowledge there. You got to know what a starter is, right? You got to know what an engine is. And you got to know when those things go wrong, what decisions need to be made. You know, so I think that's where it really comes into play is I think it's really that interim fleet manager is taking on more of a mentoring type of a role now.

Yeah, I agree. And I like the way you mentioned and alluded to education. You know, Mark, you're you do a lot of educational sessions and knowledge-based sessions to organizations. Have you seen that being more and more sought after lately?

Oh, absolutely. You know, it's funny, you know, we used to talk at shows and sometimes, you know, it might, hey, you know, we need help with this project or that project. And certainly that's always been the case and it's still the case. But now over the last couple of years, to your point, We've really been inundated with, you know, requests. Hey, can you do an hour session? Can you do a 2-hour session? Can you explain this to— sometimes it's to explain it to leadership. Sometimes it's teaching the technicians and the folks on the floor. So, I think that's a good point. And I think, you know, Steve hit the nail on the head. It's because we're in this transitionary phase, right, of the folks who are in the industry, the folks who are coming in and out of the industry sort of a thing. Unfortunately, because of the lack of policy and procedure and documentation, succession planning, A lot of institutional and industry knowledge is being lost, sadly. On the other hand, a lot of new skills and a lot of new knowledge and sort of borrowing from other ways of doing things are coming in from other industries, which is a great thing. And sort of, you know, I think, Steve, you put it well. It's kind of like when there's sort of a gap that needs to be bridged that's not happening naturally. And so I do think that's part of the role where we're hoping— we're helping to fill right now. You know, to your point, Tony, that's a good word.

We're between experienced boomers leaving and AI-enabled robots taking over.

Yeah, right. Something like that. Yeah. You know, that's right. But I will say there's one other piece, Steve, that I wonder what your thoughts are. But just from watching you from afar, watching you be the Fleet Whisperer and turning some of these fleets around, In addition to the education, there's also a, let's say, a motivation or a momentum or an attitude piece where I've seen you go into fleets where things have been so broken for so long that folks are just kind of ready to shrug their shoulders or throw their hands up. Right. And you've come in and said, listen, we're not going to accept why, why not? We're going to focus on how to and we're going to make movement. And so I think part of that role is kind of just getting the ball rolling getting momentum going downhill again for the fleet and for the fleet organization and getting it improved so that, you know, maybe it can then get handed off to, uh, another fleet professional who can take it from there, sort of a thing, you know.

Yeah, I've always believed innately that people want to win and you just have to show them how to win. And, you know, it's not anything different in fleet than it is in a baseball team, you know. You just have to show them how they can win. You have to keep score. You have to continuously improve and you have to celebrate. You know, if you do those things, people will get on the same page.

Well, and let's go ahead and go there, Steve. You know, we talked about keeping score. You know, a lot of times we're brought in as fleet consultants because the organization doesn't have an idea of how well or how well the organization is performing. You know, they don't know if they're, competitive. They don't know if the level of service is appropriate. So a lot of times we're being asked to come in and find out and benchmark their operation against industry standards. So that's one of the roles that we play. And an organization can really avoid that if the fleet organization gets out in front of that and tracks data and captures the right data and produces, you know, KPIs and identifies how their, what their performance is doing.

Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's a big part, and that's often what we're doing, right? A lot of times it's as simple as that. It's coming in and helping folks identify what are the KPIs that are relevant to them or most important to them. There are hundreds of KPIs in our industry, and they're all important and valuable for various reasons and purposes. But as Steve likes to say, you know, the critical few, right? What are the 3 to 5 or 2 to 4, you know, what, what is the, what are the ones that are most important? You can't tackle them all at once. So you start with a few and then you go from there. And that's often what we're in. Hey, this is, this is gonna be your KPI program. Essentially. This is what you, this is what, where you should be. This is where you are and this is where you can be. And this is where you should be.

Right.

That sort of a thing.

Yeah. And it's not rocket science too. I can tell you, I could tell any fleet manager out there just starting a new job. The first thing you do is you go go out and talk to your customers. First thing. Yep. Ask them what their challenges are. Ask them what their challenges with the fleet are. Now you're probably going to find out, well, I can't get my vehicle in to get PM'd, or I don't have a vehicle available to me when I need to perform my mission. You start making a list of all those challenges, all those issues, and then you come back and then you, you know, put them all together and say, okay, what's the number one priority? Maybe it's vehicle availability. Maybe it's preventive maintenance. Whatever it is, there you go. You create 2 or 3 of those and you just get the ball rolling like Mark said earlier and go forward on it. One of the recent ones I just did was vehicle availability was deplorable. You know, they had too many vehicles and they didn't have enough available. You know, so what you end up doing then is you start putting some— That's not a good mix. That's not a good mix. And it really is that simple. Let's start tracking that. Let's see what the root cause of that is.

Right.

The root cause was maybe supply chain issues. Maybe it was your parts vendor. Maybe it was lack of mechanics. Maybe it was a lack of shop space. It goes back to those 3 elements that Tony talked about, workforce, workspace, and all those. And so you just have to identify that root cause and then move forward and make a decision.

Right.

Exactly. We're, we're running out of time, guys, but I do want to hit the elephant in the room. You know, one of the areas that, uh, most organizations are facing right now is the electrification of their fleets. Whether they want to, whether they want to be on the cutting edge, whether they want to be on the forefront for whatever reason it is, um, it's coming, it's coming, you know, and I always tell fleets that you want to get out in front of this. You want to have a plan. So what are the things that we could do as fleet consultants to help them address that?

Well, this is certainly where I've spent most of my time over the last 5 years or so. I would say it's just like you said, it's the hot thing. And ironically to me is all of the things we've been talking about, they still, you know, they still play out as really the core of what's going on in, you know, in these challenges, right? So first and foremost, right, we can we can help, you know, you to figure out, can you meet the mandate? You know, if you got a mandate or you got a goal, is that even feasible? And we can help you get out in front of the narrative around that and the communication of that, right? If you can't meet it or if you can, how do you get there? So obviously the biggest part of what we've been doing recently is transition planning, and we can help again put it in context for fleet, right? So, okay, this is what we've been spending on replacement. This is what the marginal cost for an EV or an alternative fuel vehicle is going to be. And therefore, this is what we need to spend on replacement. Right. Are our facilities set up to maintain and repair these kinds of assets? Right. I mean, Tony, you know better than I, but, you know, some of the challenges for folks who've adopted CNG, let's say, right, or other natural gases, they have to renovate their entire shop. If you're doing EVs, you know, you need more space around the bays, you need charging I mean, people think about the charging infrastructure for the vehicle, for the operators, but what about what the mechanics need, right? You know, those sorts of things. So it really does fall back on the same principles fundamentally. But yeah, I mean, a lot of our effort is in helping people develop, you know, true boots to the ground transition plans on how do I get from A to B, you know, and what does that look like and what are all the considerations from a capital cost perspective, from an infrastructure cost? What are— what can I really expect to be my change in operating costs and fuel costs? And what's the impact of that? Why am I doing this? Am I doing this for carbon footprint reduction? Okay, well, let's calculate what is that reduction going to be and put that side by side with the cost with an eyes wide open approach. And hey, you know, do we want to move forward with this or not or how? Right. And one of the things I'll just put a plug in for, you know, people have heard Steve and I talk about this quite a bit recently, but, you know, it's the data is pretty evident that just doing fleet renewal, right, keeping your fleet up to speed will have a dramatic, dramatic impact on carbon emissions as well. So again, it's the type of analysis that's— Go ahead, Steve.

I'm sorry. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut in on you, but that's where I mean where we can actually help is to actually define the motivation. What are they really after? Yeah. Oftentimes it goes down to the carbon footprint. Well, you can accomplish that without doing 100% EVs, right? You can renew your fleet. You can buy hybrids. You can do a number of things and you may not be breaking the bank if you do, because if that's your motivation is to lower your carbon footprint, there's all kinds of alternatives.

Yeah, exactly.

Absolutely, guys. Oh, go ahead, Mark, if you got a final comment, then we'll wrap things up.

I was just gonna say, yeah, to your point, it's really complex. I just want to point out that this is the kind of thing that, unfortunately for me, it's a little sad, but we're seeing the whole world kind of jump in and throw in their hat in the ring that they can help folks with this kind of transition planning and this kind of assessment. And it's really intricate. You know, you really need to understand the use case. You need to understand, can this vehicle Do the things that the existing vehicle is doing? How much is the utilization? Where is that? You know, is it a hot climate? Is it a cold climate? Is it an elevated climate? It's just really, really intricate. And so that's one where, you know, we talked in a previous episode about making sure you get a consultant who really has expertise and experience in that area. And I would argue that this is one of the key ones because it's sort of a capstone type of work. That requires knowledge about every aspect of fleet management. So not just maybe an energy expert or something like that, right? So.

Right. So we could probably actually have a session or a series on EV transition planning and how to go about it. It is very complex, very complicated, and you really need to make sure you get it right because you're going to get one chance to do it. So it better be done. Correct.

Right.

I was just thinking we could have more than one session on what we're talking about today.

Yeah.

We currently just touched on a very few things that you'd use a consultant for. We probably have a list of about 50 different things that we could put together. Well, in fact, you know, on our list of consulting engagements that we do, we have about probably 25 or 30, you know, different menu items that we offer.

Right.

Right.

Absolutely. Well, guys, I really appreciate the excellent insight today. This is what it's like sitting down with Steve and Mark over lunch. This is what we talk about. Mix in a little bit of sports, but we talk about fleet because this is our passion. You know, fleet is not something I can come home and talk to my wife about or my kids. They get tired of me talking about, you know, how many VEUs is that truck driving down the road? Oh, oh yeah. You should see the text my daughter sent me the other day. It literally, it was a picture of a mower on the back of a trailer, which was attached to a pickup truck. And I don't know how these kids do all this stuff, but on the picture she had put 1.5 for the pickup truck for VUs. She put 0.5 for the trailer and she put 2 for the zero-turn mower on it for VUs, which we now refer to as AUs, but oh yeah. Yeah, I knew I had done something right as a parent, right?

I'd be so proud. My heart would be singing in that moment, Tony. You must be so proud. Exactly. Boy, we are fleet dorks, aren't we? Maybe that's another name for Fleet Consultant, Fleet Dorks.

Fleet Dorks. Let's change the name of the podcast to the Fleet Success by the Fleet Dorks.

Yeah, there you go.

Well, folks, thank you very much. I really appreciate you joining with us today. If you have any comments, feedback, issues, questions, if you have any ideas for future podcasts, please send us an email at podcast@rtafleet.com. That's podcast@rtafleet.com. Or reach out to any one of us. We'd be happy to answer any questions you might have or talk, just talk fleet with you. So that's it. We have all we have for today. Thank you very much, guys.

Take care.