Nisha Agarwal/Abby Mayeroff: Mission of Mayors Office of New York City

Welcome to Disability Matters with your host, Joyce Bender. All comments, views, and opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host, guests, and callers. Now the host of Disability Matters, here's Joyce Bender.

Everyone, hope you're having a great day. Welcome to Disability Matters with Joyce Bender. And I am always, I'm excited every time I have a show, every time. And do you know what? I've been doing this 22 years. Amazing to me. Every week, every week for 22 years. Um, and you know why? Because I have you. That's why. I have these fantastic listeners. And I hope you know how much it means to me. Every one of you, you know you're helping me spread the news about quality of life and employment for people with disabilities. Don't underestimate what you're doing because by telling other people about this show, it just means so much. And can't forget my listeners around the world. 100. I'm looking here, 143 countries with listeners. And once again, now this has been for weeks. Singapore is number 2 after the United States. What about that? Hey, Singapore, you rock. I'm telling you, thank you so much. Keep doing it. Keep spreading the news. You're helping other people in your country living with disabilities. Keep spreading that news. You're awesome, every one of you. And, you know, we have countries where— let's see here. Oh, here we go. Libya, one listener. Zimbabwe, one listener. So here's what I have to say. Doesn't matter. One person, one person can make a difference.

One.

So don't think I underestimate you. Because once you start telling another person, they tell another person. So thank you so much. And my hat is off to Canada, who is in the top 10. And yes, I just came back from Prince Edward Island. I love Canada and the people I met. Oh, they were so awesome. Beautiful country. Beautiful. And thank you for being in the top 10 with listeners. I really, really appreciate it. And I have to give a Shout out to Yoshiko Dart, my friend. I love Yoshiko. Special shout out to you, Yoshiko, and a new friend of mine, Haley Jones. Listen, if you don't listen to her, you've got to listen to her. Really great, really great singer. So thank you, everyone. Thank you for being with me. And I have absolutely— oh, wait till you see the guest I have today. Nisha Agarwal and Abby Meyerhoff. Nisha, New York City Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities Commissioner, Director of Programs. Abby Meyerhoff, New York City's Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities. Welcome to the show. Thank you.

Thank you for having us.

Oh, thank you.

I love to have advocates. Anyone fighting the fight for people with disabilities like me, living with epilepsy and hard of hearing, is a champion to me. So even if I don't know you, I know I like you just because you do. So welcome, welcome. I thought I would start by You introducing yourself to the listeners. As you see, you know, we have listeners, of course, across the United States, but we also do in Singapore. And people always want to know, gee, how did they get there? What are these people like? Tell me a little bit about them. So, Nisha, I'm going to start with you. How about you introducing yourself? to our listeners and telling us a little bit about you.

Yeah, so I'm the Commissioner for the Mayor's Office of People with Disabilities, and I'll share a little bit about my background. So I have aphasia, which means language and speech disabilities. And before that, I was the Immigration Affairs Commissioner in New York City as well. So I I'm really— I was really excited to hear the number of people around the world who listen to this podcast because I feel like New York City is like a cosm of the whole world. We have so many countries represented, so, and I'm very excited to that. So I will say that's my intro.

One question. How did you— what made you decide to be an advocate?

Well, you know, I was an advocate when I was very young. And, you know, there was a— it was like I was very young and there was all the kids would play in the backyard. It was like open to everybody. And then one time there was a playset that was put on and only some kids could join, others could not. And I just could not understand that as a kid. Why does that happen? So I'm like an advocate from the beginning. I was advocating against kids playing in their playset all the way now as an adult using that tool as a way to move the ball forward.

Wow.

You are the friend of people being bullied. That is awesome. How about you, Abby? Let's hear a little bit about you.

Sure. Thank you. So at the Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities, I'm the director of the NYC at Work program, and I've been in this role for about 2 years, but I've been with MOPD as the founding program manager of NYC at Work, and I'm coming up on 9 years. And prior to that, I have a background in a combination of Advocacy, philanthropy, and have a master's degree from NYU in public policy and nonprofit administration.

And how about you? What got you in this direction?

Oh, that's a really great question.

I—

a combination of, I think, an advocacy spirit that aligns really closely with the commissioners, and part of that also came from My, my parent, who is an educator and worked with students with disabilities and was exposed to her work from a very young age, and I guess have followed in her footsteps.

Well, make sure she hears this show. I'm sure that will mean a lot to her. So, Commissioner Agarwal, would you share with our listeners the mission The mission of the New York Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities under Mayor Mondale. So let's hear about it.

Yeah, so I mean, as people know, we have more than a million people with disabilities in the 5 boroughs. And so broadly, the Mayor's Office of People with Disabilities, or MOPD as we refer refer to it affectionately, is the voice for people with disabilities inside City Hall. And affordability is a key issue for our mayor, and that includes housing, of course, but healthcare, transportation, education, employment, but also art and music and sports. All of the things that all New Yorkers love, so do disability communities. So we've— I'll share some of the stuff that we've already Accomplished in the first 6 months. So one thing the mayor and the chancellor announced last week— last month, $67 million investment to young children with disabilities in the public schools. So all— The schools, the Kids, but also the parents really have that flexibility by expanding that. We also worked with the Department of Social Services. We developed a tool called Communicard that helps deaf New Yorkers communicate basic needs in homeless shelters. We raised awareness about disability issues through the Disability Etiquette and advocacy training. And we actually shared that. We did that training once with the deputy mayor. And then we, we, one of the things that we added to this portfolio is strategic communications and engagement so that we can reach press and communities more effectively, including things like this podcast today. So that's what we are doing. And the thing that That resonates the most is that we will work with the very diverse disability communities in this, these 5 boroughs, and they have the answers. Our goal is to lead their effort.

That money, what all can that money be used for? I'm talking about the money for children. In the schools.

Yeah, so it's basically, um, the easiest way to explain is that, um, previously, um, kids with disabilities had to travel far to get the, uh, uh, important services that they need. Now this expansion will allow that to be like local to them, so they don't have to ride the subway for hours to get to the— get good services, it'll be in the 5 boroughs, locally, local for, for those kids. And I think that's what is the bottom line. And I think it's very important.

Oh, that is— yes, that is great. Wow, how wonderful that he did that. Okay, Commissioner Agarwal, I wanted to ask you about accessible transportation. But since we talked about accommodations and people getting help, I'm going to jump back to Abby as program director and find out what, what plans or programs do you have for employment? As you know, I'm all about employment.

Yeah.

And we found employment for thousands of people. With disabilities. However, there is still a sky-high unemployment rate. So what are you doing?

Yeah, absolutely. So we have the NYC at Work program, which, with a very small team, provides direct services to New Yorkers with disabilities to support them in reaching their career goals. So we have a team of career advisors. They work directly with those job seekers to really serve as an intermediary between those job seekers and employment opportunities. So helping them identify roles that meet their background experience and career goals, supporting strengthening their resumes and cover letters, preparing them for interviews, helping them just navigate that hiring and onboarding process, guiding them through the reasonable accommodation process if that is needed. And then we provide retention support service for about a year after employment. And then we also have a couple of people who work directly with employers. Employers to develop partnerships that will help us to, one, identify jobs within those companies that we can connect our job seekers to, but also support those companies to become a little bit more accessible and inclusive in their hiring practices and hiring processes. We utilize that disability etiquette and awareness training that the Commissioner mentioned. That's really kind of like the starting point in those conversations. So we have a baseline of understanding and open communication and then use that to launch into introducing job seekers and Getting them connected to employment.

Which we know how hard that is, just finding opportunities for people with disabilities, which this is a big deal to me, as I said. How is it possible that 70% of people with disabilities are still not counted in the workforce? A friend of mine said, for people with disabilities, you're either unemployed or employed in the industry. So, you know, if you're blind, you're either unemployed or working for school for the blind or, you know, whatever it is. But it's people like you, Abby, with the work you're doing, that's going to help change that. But right now we're going to go to break. If you just tuned in, we are talking to Nisha Agarwal and Abby Meyerhoff. from the New York Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities, and they are little rock stars. So you're going to be telling everyone about them. We'll be back. Don't go away. We'll be waiting for you.

At Highmark Health, we believe what makes us unique makes us better. Our differences broaden our perspectives and foster a variety of skills to complement each other, creating a stronger and more vibrant workforce. It's this belief that earned us recognition as the Best Place to Work for the 10th year for individuals with disabilities in a survey by the American Association of People with Disabilities and Disability:IN. We'll continue to celebrate and benefit from the inclusion of all people. To find out more, visit himarkhealth.org.

Since 1985, Bender Consulting Services has served as a national leader in advancing employment of people with disabilities, including veterans with disabilities, with private sector companies and federal government agencies. Bender assists customers with achieving their diversity and workforce inclusion initiatives by tapping into a talent pool of individuals seeking professional positions, including those in the STEM fields. In addition, Bender Services include disability employment consulting, training, and technology accessibility through their HiTest line of service. For more information, please visit www.benderconsult.com. Follow Voice America at facebook.com/voiceamerica for juicy updates from your favorite radio shows and podcasts.

You're listening to Disability Matters, Now please welcome back the host of Disability Matters. Here's Joyce Bender.

Welcome back to the show. If you just joined us, we are talking to Nisha Agarwal and Abby Meyerhoff from the Mayor's Office on Disability, uh, for people with disabilities in New York City. What I was asking you before Before I jump back, because to me, can't have a job, you know, if you don't have transportation, can't get there. So Commissioner Argyle, tell me, what is accessible transportation like in New York City for people with disabilities?

Yeah, so recently the mayor and the governor announced a comprehensive plan to make New York City's buses faster and better for all New Yorkers. workers, including people with disabilities. So currently, 10% of bus stops are inaccessible. They don't have a bench for you to sit, or they don't have a roof above you in case it rains or snows. So the new plan— I'll share the data— is moving from upgrade 25 bus stops per year to double that until 2029, and then increase it further to 65 bus stops starting in 2030 and onwards. So what does that mean in palpable terms? People with disabilities, older adults, parents with strollers, all— basically all New Yorkers will enjoy the access to provide that to New Yorkers. It's a very universal design. And importantly, the Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities and the disability community will co-design this process at the beginning so that we can provide important opinions and thoughts at the beginning, not at the end.

Boy, that is great that you're doing all that.

Yeah, we want, we want, you know, we want to have people with disabilities at the start of everything because in the end, universal design is the best design to happen. So that's— I was very excited about this initiative.

What is your subway system like?

Our subway system is impressive in the sense that it carries around the 5 boroughs, but there are various activities that we want to do to make it improve even better.

Oh, that's great. Yeah. Yeah, because being accessible, it's so— where in the United— so many places in the United States, disability leaders have led a charge, you know, to make that happen. And it appears that your mayor is very invested in people with disabilities.

Yes. And that's wonderful.

Oh, it is. Because it's not like that everywhere.

Right.

Was he right from the get-go involved with the disability community?

Yeah, I think he was. He went, he met the reporter on disabilities early on. And I was I was brought in very early on to this administration, and that makes sense of like, what priorities do you want to portray? And that includes people with disabilities at the front, again, not at the end.

And Naisha, do you have plans to expand your staff?

Well, we are hoping to reconfigure our staff. So we are adding policy and communications and that vehicle as well so that we have every tool at our disposal to tackle any issue. And so that's what we're trying to do. And we're going to hire interns and fellowships and any kind of opportunity to get more people with disabilities involved in this work.

Mm-hmm.

Or people who care about people with disabilities. So that's the goal over time.

How large are you right now?

I'd say we have about 20 people. And it's important to note that we're the experts. We have the experts on agencies, but the agencies have to lead that effort. So we can partner with them. We can be the experts. They have the, the Role they want to accomplish and working with other agencies, all the agencies in New York City is important, is very valuable for us.

Yeah, that is great. That was one of the things I wondered in the state. How do the agencies work with you? It appears you have a good working relationship.

Yeah, and I, you know, I have regular meetings with the the state-level officers. And I think that's very important because working with the city and the state is like so important to move anything forward. And so I'm really lucky to have that relationship.

Yeah. Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, I see you do a lot in the area of mental health. And we know that's a crisis today in the United States. And we also know that people with mental health don't get the— there's a disparity of, you know, healthcare for them. And in addition, very hard to get employment in many situations. But I see— I was very impressed with that. Tell us, our listeners, about that.

Yeah, well, I agree that mental health challenges are very resonant right now. And I previously, of this job, I worked with the Health Department in the Division of Mental Health. So I know this critical infrastructure in this community and in our our city. So for example, when I took on this role, we, the Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities, didn't have a role on intellectual disabilities. But now we are going to get more engaged on that topic as well because that is a portfolio that is in our docket. And then recently, We visited the College of Staten Island where they have a massive archive research on the Willowbrook State School that was institutionalizing to a disastrous result to children with intellectual disabilities. And so that is a good reference that we want to move Through working with the advocates, we created a community setting so that people can live their lives and not be confined in that institutional setting. But now we're seeing that that may be changing a little bit from the federal government, that they want to move people back to institutionalized settings. So we keep that eye open and very cautious on that.

Yeah, that is something that I am very concerned about. Because for our listeners, could you just give them a little bit of a story about Willowbrook?

Yeah, I mean, so Willowbrook, it started by by like institutionalizing people with disabilities, specifically intellectual and developmental disabilities. And it— the number increased to like 6,000 people who were Confined. They would— I don't even know what to describe, but they kept these people. These people got very sick. They got— they couldn't eat properly. They were just not a good place to live. And the parents just had to give them their kids up when this started. And like, that's the— The parents were like advocates at at the time, and then there were children who joined. And so I think that's like the big picture of like institutionalization is, and then we created the independent living centers and other community groups that want to focus on deinstitutionalization and in the communities. And that is what we've found to be much more helpful than keeping people confined. That doesn't affect anybody well.

Yeah, that was the thing that just shocked everyone because it was so horrible.

It was so horrible.

People were being treated and not sanitary and Some of them not dressed properly or dressed at all. I'm not sure, is that where Geraldo Rivera— yes, Geraldo Rivera went through there and took pictures without them knowing what he was doing and exposed that. And I know that Kennedy's got involved.

Yep.

So many people got involved, but oh my God, that was horrible. That was horrible. And then thinking of ever going back in that direction is horrifying.

It makes me sick.

Yeah, me too. Because, you know, community living for people, I just know that if that happened, it would be bad. And you know what? We're going to talk about that a little bit more right now. With Mathis on the mic, our news break right now with Jennifer Mathis. Hi, Jennifer.

Hi.

We got the New York Mayor's Office for People with Disabilities on here. I don't know if you heard what they were just talking about. They were talking about the fear of institutionalization.

Indeed.

Of people with disabilities because they work a lot with people with mental health issues, but the Commissioner, Nisha, is very familiar with everything that happened in the past and is watching this closely. Actually, what we were talking about was Willowbrook and how this, you know, all broke out. And shocked the world when they found out. But why I brought that up is that Jennifer is keeping us on target with what's happening. So scary, very, very frightening. But with that, Jennifer, what do you have for us today?

So I do have a new development to share concerning community integration and what the federal government has been doing, which is that on Thursday or Friday of last week, Thursday actually, DOJ filed a notice, well, a response actually to Florida in a case that involved children with physical disabilities who were stuck in nursing homes—

Yeah.

In many cases, or in other cases, were still living at home with their parents, but were getting so little of what they needed in terms of private duty nursing at home that they were on the brink of going into nursing homes. And so DOJ had actually taken that case to trial. It has a long history. But most recently, they went to trial several years ago. They won the trial. The court issued an order requiring them to do certain things and provide the home and community-based services that the kids needed to get out of nursing homes or to stay at home with their parents. And Florida appealed and DOJ won the case on appeal.

Mm-hmm.

And then Florida went up again to the full 11th Circuit Court of Appeals to say, we are still challenging a piece of this case. We're challenging the part that's about what they call kids at risk of institutionalization. So the kids who are still at home, but the families are not getting what they need. And so they're on the brink of institutionalization. And typically the courts have said that you can get relief at that point because your rights are about to be violated. And so what the United States Justice Department just did was file something saying, we don't oppose their appeal now. We decline to defend The, our victory, parts of this decision. And we are asking the appeals court to vacate its decision, take away our victory. We don't want it anymore. Send this back to the lower court, to the district court, so that we can ask the, that court to either terminate this order or to modify it. And it's a little unclear. They seem to be focused on this at-risk piece, but, you know, they're asking the court not just to vacate those parts of its appeals decision. They're asking it to vacate its entire appeals decision and send it back. And so this is incredibly concerning. This just shows that we are starting to see the real impact of what the federal government is doing. And so, you know, now you have a bunch of kids who, some of whom are still in nursing homes, but many of whom are still at home with their families. I will say there has been progress. I mean, that court order made a significant difference and the state has been making progress. But now to have the United States say, never mind, and we're declining to defend our own victories here, and we want to ask the appeals court to vacate the decision in our favor, and we're going to ask the lower court to either eliminate or change parts of its decision in our favor. That's pretty, pretty devastating.

Wow.

That's terrible. Well, what, in your opinion, what are the odds of that happening?

Well, I mean, I think that, um, it is likely that the appeals court will vacate if a party is declining to defend its own victory and asking it to send the case back. I don't know, but I suspect that that may happen. You know, what will happen in the lower court is a different story, and that I'm not sure about. But I think, you know, one thing that is important to take away and to remember is that, you know, there are things that people with disabilities can do, advocates can do, and Among those things, you know, is is to to ask your state to do something, to ask your state to sign on to the commitment. We talked about it in past weeks. It is on the Baseline Center's website. Dread F now has an action alert. It is a very short statement, basically just saying. we affirm our commitment to the integration mandate. We believe there is an integration mandate, and we think that, you know, people with disabilities should be able to live in their own homes and communities. And so there are already some states that have signed on to it. There are other states that are considering it, that are close, and I think that's important because DOJ is going to shut down its cases clearly, or many of them at least, but it is going to be states that start raising these arguments that DOJ has served up. And so we really, really don't need the states to be joining in these attacks. And so I think that is a very important thing that we can all do is just get that commitment from the states, it should not be hard. It should not be a controversy to states to be able to say the integration mandate is a thing.

How does this happen? Like, would this be that people, if it did happen, that people would be released from community settings? I mean, how would they do this? How would they get people back into institutions?

Well, I think, you know, one thing that certainly is going to happen is people will get community services cut. I mean, this is a hard fiscal environment given all the Medicaid cuts that are being made. You know, Congress cut $1 trillion from the Medicaid program. You also have the federal government going after home and community-based services saying they're fraudulent. And so between those 2 things, I think there is a very, very real prospect of seeing significant cuts to community services. There's a lot of pressure on states to do that. And if that happens, then, you know, people will end up institutionalized. I think that would be silly for states to do that because on the back end, it's going to cost them a lot more to serve people in institutions. But we all know how these decisions get made with sort of a short-term lens. And so, you know, the concern is, I think, that many people will see their services cut. And if this were to become the law, I mean, number one, we know that the federal government's not going to do anything about that, and they're not going to enforce Olmstead at this point. But Also, you know, if that were to become the law, then people wouldn't have recourse necessarily. I mean, they might have some recourse under state laws. I don't know. They might not. They might have recourse under Medicaid. The Supreme Court has certainly made that harder. So I, you know, I think that that's what might happen is people may never get the services they need in the first place, or they lose the services they have. And if this, you know, if DOJ got what it wanted and the courts started adopting this, then people wouldn't be able to do anything about it. And so they would get stuck in institutions and they just couldn't get out.

So Nisha, what do you think about this?

Yeah, I mean, I, uh, it's horrifying, um, but it is happening and that's what's more scary. Um, and I think like, um, Florida has this, but I'm It's like nibbling into other states. And if states don't want to ensure that people with disabilities live in freedom and fulfillment, they will force those people into institution settings. And that is scary, but it's true. And I think that what you said Jennifer, is that advocacy is a great momentum. If we can't fight in through the administration, we'll find other avenues to put this out. Advocating, communicating to people, to reporters, like, make this more known so that it's available to all of us so that we can realize what's happening. And more broadly, I would think that this is happening across social movements. So racial justice movements, civil rights was decimated. Women's rights movement, decimated. Now people with disabilities are decimated, and we want to all form together to enact these horrible bills and horrible institutions.

You know what, Jennifer, just to get this going before you leave, like, what should our listeners do?

Yeah, so I think there's several action items. And, you know, I've talked a little bit about this on a couple past episodes. But, you know, I think the most important thing right now to me is the states, right, is seeing if you can get your state on board because The more that we have states saying, we are not going to join in the attacks, we are not going to go into court and make this argument that there's no integration mandate, the more we can preserve what we have, right? I mean, this is not the law now, but we want to make sure that it stays that way. And so I think, you know, even our states across the spectrum should be able to do this. And certainly, you know, we have states that have started to do this. We have public officials and governors that have, in some cases, issued some public statements saying, you know, this is bad and we don't like this. And that's helpful. But I think there is a power in a collective statement that will also help build momentum to get more and more states on board with that statement. And so really asking your state to sign on to that. It should not be a heavy lift. It is not controversial. It says really the minimal thing that the integration mandate exists and that we're committed to it. That's all. So that is, I think, a very important thing. Beyond that, I think educating your members of Congress, telling them your stories, telling them your concerns, going to the press, you know, making sure that people do, as Nisha said, understand what is happening, understand how big a deal this is, to create that public pressure. I think there has been a lot of good press highlighting this, but, you know, we all know that the mainstream press generally and the mainstream public tends to understand little about disability rights issues. And so really kind of getting this out there so that people understand what's at stake, I think, is important and creates pressure on the federal government itself for how aggressive they're going to be. It creates pressure on states for what they're going to do. And so I think that is all important too. But I think to me, like, for sort of the urgency of the moment, I would try to get a commitment from All right.

Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for keeping us apprised, and I know you will continue to, but I would challenge all of our listeners. This is serious. This is serious. You need to do this. You need to go to your state representatives, everyone, talk to them about this, send them email about this. You, as Jennifer said, write an op-ed or just somehow get the press involved. But if we don't speak up, no one will know, and it'll just happen. Thank you, Jennifer.

Thank you.

We'll see you now.

Bye-bye.

Take care.

Bye.

Wow.

We really have a A tall order here, but we gotta do it. And I know you will. So, you know, we've been talking about the mayor, and he just seems just wonderful. So my question is, what do you think he would like to see the most? What achievement coming from your office?

Oh boy. I think so. One of the things that I love about the mayor is he believes in collaboration. So agencies should collaborate with other agencies. He loves the community responses. So I think for us, if we were able to have direct communication with the city agencies. There are many, many city agencies, all of whom affect people with disabilities and the disability community together. And then we can move that forward. We can move any issue forward. That is my goal, is that after I leave, that becomes really natural, that you just ask MOPD and they will respond on that issue. And I think that's what I want to do, is to make MOPD known to other city agencies and community-based organizations and move that ball forward.

And I want to thank you both, Abby, and I want to thank you, Commissioner, that you are speaking up like this and taking a stand like this. So anyone living in New York with a disability that wants to reach out to you, they just go to the website, To the contact page. Is that what you do?

Yes.

Okay. Once again, people can't help you if you don't ask. And better to ask than make judgments on your own. You know, find out, send an email. And I did want to talk to you also about voting. Now, I love Rev Up. We have posters here everywhere for Rev Up. Register, educate, vote. You have the power. So what we do is here in Pennsylvania, I'm headquartered in Pittsburgh, but we are one of the largest Rev Up groups. So we have monthly meetings and we're out there. And by the way, we suggest to people go into nursing homes and register people because no one asks them. You know what I mean? And there are people that would like to register to vote. So don't forget about that. But what are you doing there, Anisha? What are you doing for voting?

Yeah, so we love Rev Up as well. And when I was a senior advisor for the deputy mayor, one of the things that I did was So our campaign finance board didn't have an ASL interpreter so that all of the deaf people— we have about 200,000 deaf people— couldn't make a decision because they didn't get that information in their language. And so I proposed with the Communities that we should advocate for that, and we won at the end, and it's really great. So now if there's a— the next campaign, each of the candidates will talk about their proposals, and you will have an ASL person who'll do that again. So I want to use the past experience and use it to the mayor's office for people with disabilities with the communities around. Because that's the only way that you can accomplish anything. Without the communities, it won't get done.

That's right. That is so true. Yeah, rev up. Listen, everyone, you've got to get registered to vote. Voting is your voice. And if you want to see change, you have to vote. Register. Register now so you can vote in the midterm. You just have to have That's your power. Voting is your power. So, uh, that's great you do that at your, uh, site. So you are both awesome. Thank you so much. But when I have people on that are awesome, I know it's somewhere comes from someone somewhere. So I wanted to ask you, I'll start with you, Abby. Um, who would you say is your role model? that has influenced you the most?

Well, I can pick 2. First, I think, you know, I've had the privilege of working with the Commissioner now for about 6 months, and she's very quickly become a role model. I think that she, as she's explained, coming to the office with such a clear commitment, but also a really clear vision, and has really demonstrated leadership externally, but also internally in a way that I think really balances strength with sensitivity. And that's something that I've already, I think, learned quite a bit from. And then also, my former supervisor and leader in the disability community, Geri Mendelson, is someone who had hired me for my first job in the field and really supported me throughout my career and actually got me connected to MOPD initially. And I think that she's someone who really exemplifies the ability to balance an individual's needs with an institution's needs and the way to make systems change. And that's been really, really positive for me as well.

Oh, that's awesome. Well, that's a great compliment to you, Nisha. I know.

Thank you.

That's a great compliment to you. How about you, Nisha? Who would you say has influenced you the most?

Well, I have to say it was my parents. So I I mentioned before, when I was like 8 years old, I advocated for the playgrounds. And my parents, like, were— who knew how my parents would respond? But they responded very smart. They were like, what you did— I basically had the kids and me throw rocks when they went on vacation, and I destroyed the playground. And so they were like, the strategy makes sense. You want other— everyone to be involved, all the kids to be involved in this. But the tactics was wrong. You went for violence instead of nonviolence. And so they're like, do you want to watch this movie about Gandhi? Then you'll maybe learn a little bit more about nonviolence and that that trajectory. And I know I had to watch the Gandhi movie every single year until I left college. But I learned that nonviolence is much more effective than violence. And that's the through line that my career has taken.

Oh, that is so, so awesome. Yeah, don't be throwing rocks at It was this. No rock throwing.

No rock throwing.

You know who that reminds me of when you were talking about, I mean, the nonviolence? John Lewis, remember?

Oh, yes.

He would say, go make good trouble.

Yes. Oh, I love that.

Yeah. Make good trouble. Yeah. That's who it reminded me of when you told that But, you know, you do have to make good trouble.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah, a peaceful protest. But we have the right to protest in this country. And you have to speak up.

Yeah.

You can't be silent. You have to speak up. And I just so enjoyed having both of you. And you can count on it when I'm in New York. Yes. I'm going to be visiting you. You can count on it.

Please do.

Oh, I will. So do you have any other thing you'd like to say before we close the show?

No, except for any New Yorkers with disabilities, reach out, advocate, and fight the good fight with us.

You know what? You're both awesome. And Nisha, you are a good leader.

Oh, thank you.

You are a good leader. You got that Justin Dart spirit. So you gotta lead on no matter what, right?

Exactly.

No matter what. Well, we end the show, every show with a quote. And since we've been talking about get involved, don't hide it, have good trouble. And the quote for today is, when you get a chance, To take the podium, speak up, said Tony Coelho, author of the Americans with Disabilities Act. And every time he's somewhere when I speak, I say, and I listened, Tony. When I get a chance to take the podium, I speak up, but so should all of you. Remember, good trouble. We need good trouble right now. Thank you. We need you. Don't forget to get in touch with your state representatives about this horrible situation that could happen with the Department of Justice. So make sure, as a matter of fact, go to bazelon.org and you can read You know all the information on the site, bazelon.org, and go to benderconsult.com because guess what? You'll be seeing this show and hearing this show. Benderconsult.com. All, all of the old shows. So if you ever ever want to hear Judy Uman or Marka Bristow. Or Senator Harkin, go to benderconsult.com, go to Insights, and listen to the show. I know you're going to want to get this show so you can share it. And with that, in the words of Mary Brocker, remember, when you get up tomorrow, choose joy. You won't be disappointed. Talk to you all next week. Love you all.

Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Please join us next Tuesday at 11 AM Pacific time and 2 PM Eastern time for another installment of Disability Matters right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in live internet talk radio. voiceamerica.com.