COPY This CRAZY Simple Market Maker’s Trading Strategy For Futures Prop Firms (75% Win Rate)

This is the weapon. This is how institutions trade. When I teach this to people, they say you're crazy. This strategy has 75% winning rate.

And with this strategy, how frequent would you say trade opportunities come?

This one has 1 or 2 trading opportunities in the day. That's why it's so important to understand what happens there.

Why?

Because—

Are you ready to take a step beyond order flow into institutional order flow and options flow? Well, no one better than Freddy Sarmiento, a 20-year market maker.

I use this strategy to pass funded accounts. I can put 10 NQ contracts, so I can make $6,000 in one move. I truly believe every retail trader, whichever strategy they have, they should know about this. You don't necessarily need to change your strategy, but it will help you to increase your winning rate. It's kind of the base of everything.

In this episode, he holds nothing back as he breaks down exactly how to use options flow as a retail trader, and more specifically, even as a prop firm trader.

I realized my edge is to enter the market when the big guys enter the market. That Hedging 1.5 yards.

What does that equate to?

$1.5 billion.

Wow.

With that big amount of money, I moved the market. I moved it a lot. I sold another million dollars and Goldman Sachs was there. If Goldman Sachs is there, I'm gonna reverse all my position because—

Over 2 hours of institutional insights from a true institutional trader. Have your notepads ready for this very special episode on Chart Fanatics.

We are just starting to get this knowledge that institutions had and they don't share, obviously. One Italian guy, he told me, Freddy, that looks illegal. And I said, well—

I think a best place to start, because again, this is a topic that is extremely, extremely sought after right now. And I think this might be one of the first videos going out on a major platform that can go really quite in depth. Yeah. We're gonna spend a little bit of time on the whiteboard, but we have a full presentation breaking it down step by step. which I thank you for. But just to get things started, like, why is institutional order flow and specifically options flow, why is that so important to traders today?

I think it's so important because actually, especially on indices like SPX, NDX, Q's, ETFs like Q's and SPY, what's happening is Institutions like pension funds, endowments, mutual funds, after, I guess, 19— when the crash, 1987, the Black Monday, when the market went down 22% in one single day.

Right.

They realized they need to hedge. If they don't hedge, they're gonna be, you know, wiped out as happened at that time. And just happens that in 1973, the Chicago Board of Exchange, they launched the first option contract, standardized option contract. It's the same year when Black-Scholes, you know, these guys, these mathematicians and great guys, they come up with the pricing model. So from that moment on, the market start to realize they need to hedge their portfolios.

Mm-hmm.

If you go around the world, pension funds, endowments, mutual funds, everyone They are long, let's say, the markets, but they need protection, right? It's the same when you have a car, you buy a car, or in your house, you need to buy insurance, right? So before that, these guys didn't have insurance. They just, you know, long. And when things were very bad, they just wipe out. Then we had the 2000 dot-com crash, and I think that was when all these, you know, big guys say, we need to hedge, we need to use options, which is, if you think in a nutshell, options is like insurance. Yeah, for them. And now what's happening nowadays, well, it happens the dot-com, then the 2008 crash where I lost everything. Like, yeah, it was a great experience. You know, you learn a lot. Of course.

Was that your first personal, like, you know, Trading during a crash in that environment?

Yeah, I was working in Australia as a junior broker and then it was great. You know, it was, you know, being there as a junior broker, seeing inside how big clients, our clients were from Europe. You see many things like the importance of the VWAP, for instance. All these guys came and placed their orders on VWAP. And basically I start to see the markets as playing poker.

They're playing on the, what are you saying, the VWAP?

Yeah.

Yep. Yep.

And also, you know, putting orders, taking orders, learning everything inside was amazing. But then the financial crisis came and, you know, everyone lost their job, companies went crash. And that was a great experience. But what's happening in the market, I think after that, people start to realize we need to hedge our portfolios, right? And that's been an explosion of that. What's happened, and as we're gonna see here, in 2021, before that, you can trade options, I don't know, 3 days options, a week options, you know, a month.

Yes.

So people were trading those options to find protection. Other people found it, that was a great, great product to actually speculate in the market because it has an asymmetry. Like you pay a small premium and you can take 300, 400 returns. So that's, I always mention like Nicholas Taleb in his book, Antifragile, he basically say if the only way to make wealth, you know, to make money in the markets is when you trade an asymmetric product.

Yes.

And options are asymmetric product. You know, you pay a small premium, You can have 200%, 300% returns. So I guess other market participants start to come into the market to actually profit from that. But what I really think changed everything is 2021 when the SEC, the Securities and Exchange Commission in United States, they say, we're gonna allow to trade zero DTE options. And zero DTE options are options that actually start to trade at 9:30 when the bell rings in New York. And basically they expire at 4 o'clock. So that's, we will see that those options are crazy. Like the guy who's in the middle, the market maker, he needs to hedge that trillions of dollars immediately. Like, you know, quickly and without thinking. Nowadays they do it with machines. When I was in my time, I was trading for this investment bank in London, I was market making outright swaps in the foreign exchange market. And it was billions of dollars sometimes, like 2 yards of euro-dollar, 2 yards of sterling. They came and I had to hedge that in the market. And I realized sometimes I moved the spot market. It moves because of me. I mean, not because of me, because I was hedging. So in the options space, is the same, but with zero DTE options, it's like exponential.

Yeah.

If you imagine, as I tell to my, you know, the guys I coach, they say, imagine when there were 2 a month, a week options, the market maker, we will see it, is hedging. The hedging pressure is like, you know, the guy is driving a car at, I don't know, 80K an hour. So it's very slow. He can, Turn, he can turn very easily. But with zero DT options, he's like going in an F1 car, Ferrari. So he's going at 300 km/h. He needs to put the brakes in a curve and then steer the wheel 300 km/h again. So that's kind of a—

That's not the difference. So the volatility has increased.

I don't think the volatility has increased. Actually, there were a lot of—

I would say pressure into that.

The pressure for the market makers.

Understood.

And the best— The funny thing, oh, not the funny thing.

I know volatility in options is a different meaning. Yeah. It's vol, right? Yeah. I'm learning.

I'm learning. No, and it's actually, there were some papers at the time that says that, oh, zero DTE options is gonna create huge volatility in the markets. But actually it's the other way around. They have kind of come into the markets and stabilized the market somehow. Interesting. And nowadays, if you think about what is happening now, how the world is changing, I truly believe all these hedge funds, portfolio managers, they used to come into the markets, into the options to hedge their portfolios with 1-month, 3-month options. I think now they do it in zero DTE. See what happened with United States and Iran. Before that was the war between United States and China.

The tariffs.

Yeah. The tariffs. You know, the world is changing very quickly.

The speed of reaction is necessary. Yeah.

So if you have a portfolio—

It's interesting. Would you say that the zero DTE almost helped to facilitate or was created to facilitate this speed of information?

Yep.

Because if we go back to when you were sort of doing the institutional market making, the speed of information even then was slower than it is today.

Yep.

Even though it was faster than say the '90s or the '80s, right? Back then, even the information was so slow. Before the— by the time a retail investor knew about it, it was already priced in and probably a week before.

Yep.

While now it's instant almost. And therefore having the option of zero DTE allows the funds, allows even everyday people to be able to, you know, hedge and be able to maneuver a lot faster, which is necessary for the markets of today.

Yeah.

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And, and that's where big opportunities for us retail traders come, um, because I truly believe every trader, retail trader, even trading options or trading futures with wherever or whichever strategy they have, they should know about this.

Definitely.

Because, you know, Fabio, Fabio Valentini, great guy, friend, great friend. We've been talking about these zero DTE options he's implementing in his kind of strategies. And it's actually, it helps. You don't necessarily need to change your strategy if you have one which is already working for you, but it will help you to increase your winning rate and to reduce your losses, which we will see how.

I love that. And I think that's a perfect segue now that we've set the stage of, you know, the history and the importance of this institutional flow and options flow in particular. I think for the whiteboard here, why don't we just help the audience visualize, you know, what this flow looks like?

Okay.

And then we can take it from there. Yeah.

So as we said before, all these institutions, pension funds, endowments, mutual funds, name it, all around the world, they need to hedge their exposure, right? The best example that I always tell is JP Morgan. They have a hedge fund. is a $22 billion hedge fund.

Wow.

And they come into the market every 3 months to do a call, which is an option strategy to hedge their hedge fund, which they use it with options. And if people doesn't know about these things, it will be the day when they say, oh my God, the market today was very crazy, very tough. But Well, you didn't realize it was JP Morgan. They basically sell, we will see, they sell a call far away on the upside, they sell a put far away on the downside. When they sell options, they get credit, they get the money. And with that money in the middle, they buy a put to protect the $22 billion portfolio. I think that was the last time I saw it a couple of months ago. And each node was like 40,000, 30,000 contracts, which is a lot, is massive. So that creates a pressure in the market, that creates a pressure on the market maker who needs to hedge this. And thus we will see they go into the futures and that's where you see this price. The last time the market went up, up, up, up, up and didn't stop. So people with kind of mean reverting strategies trying to sell this market, they cannot get so many losses. Only by knowing this, you know, as I said before, they reduce their stop losses.

Why?

Because if they knew this, they just don't sell the market because they know, you know—

It's not the environment.

It's a big guy with $22 billion portfolio hedging in the market. You know, don't go against that. But to start with the whiteboard, so you have all these big institutions, right? They need to come into the market. They have to. There is a— they are forced to. Yeah, they have to. They are forced to. So they come into the market, right? And they do it through options. Okay, so they do it here through options. Okay, this works very well in indices. So, and there is a reason for that. We'll we will see it. So they come into the SPX and they come into the SPY. Yeah. They also come into the NDS, which is the one I love to trade. Not the NDX, the futures Q. But I love what's happening in the NDX and obviously the QQQs. Bear in mind this one. These guys are professionals. You know they are top of the top. And when I say top of the top, I when I was working in London here, usually you go out and, you know, with your broker, you meet other traders. You know, I felt so little because most of these guys in the big banks, they were, they have a degree in maths, physics, PhDs. As I told you, I have 2 master's degrees, but these guys were like, you know, the top of the top. And you're like, my goodness, of course.

As if you're like a different language almost.

Oh yeah, but they were great guys, but Yeah, that's what I tell to people is, you know, people who comes into the market to trade a moving average, and I'm sorry to people who trade moving average and that kind of thing. First of all, they need to realize where are they getting into. You know, for me, when I go into the market every day, I said myself that I'm gonna go against the brightest minds in the world, right?

Mm-hmm.

So I respect the market in that sense. But anyway, this is what happens. These guys, these institutions all around the world, they come here to trade options, right? To hedge their portfolios.

Yeah.

One difference with, and this is two-way.

Okay.

Why? Because in the middle we have the market makers.

Yes.

Right? What is the function of the market makers? What they do, they provide liquidity. They provide liquidity to these guys. Okay? So when you buy, when you trade options, and one of the nice things of options is you can buy, you got calls and you have puts, right? And you can buy them or you can sell them. So it's like 4, if you see it, it's like 4 ways to trade. It's not like futures that you buy and sell. Here you can buy protection, but you also can sell it.

Yes.

Yeah. And from these, you get hundreds of combinations, right? You can do butterflies, collars, credit spreads, name it. You can take these 4 dimensions and you can do so many configurations, so many structures.

Well, I think that's why when I interviewed Jem Carson, we were just talking, he mentioned that zero DTE options and options in general, Kind of like a new technology in a sense.

Yeah.

Probably because of these combinations that even any other type of asset class doesn't really allow.

No.

You know, yes, you might have more leverage there, or you might have these different elements, but in essence it's just buy and sell.

Yeah. Right? Exactly.

Versus options has all the Greeks involved, and then there's all these combinations that allows you to get very creative with your structuring of a trade and an idea.

Yeah, probably one of the best podcasts that you did that I love, it was, what was it? Imran Gans? Imran Gans?

Imran, yes.

Yeah. And I love what he mentioned, you know, when the markets are going down, he's got a strategy to sell options. And the analogy is like, if your house is on fire, how much are you gonna— I know, if you've got a house and you buy fire insurance, how much is it gonna cost you? But if your house is on fire, how much is it gonna cost you?

Yes.

You know, so that's a great way to explain. These options is a complex product, but it allows to these institutions to create so much, you know, and to do so much. But we're gonna get to the point where we're gonna trade futures on this, and I promise. So we got these market makers, right? So basically how they make their money, They don't take positions on these guys. They just charge the spread, right? That's their job. They charge the spread. If someone wants to buy a call, they sell it. Someone wants to sell a call, they buy it from them. Same with put.

They act as the counterparty.

Yeah. And what I realized from thinking of my job here in London is, They can't say no. You know, whatever flows came, they have to provide liquidity. And I remember in my job, I have to, I couldn't say, no, sorry, the market is not right right now. No, I have to provide liquidity even if I don't like it. And that's the advantage of retail trader compared to an institutional trader. We have to, I have to have a position every day. I have to be hedging everything. While you're a retail, you can just wait as we are gonna see.

Mm-hmm.

For the right moment. But anyway, these guys, they charge the spread and they manage, they need to manage their portfolio. Yeah. One of the things with options is, and let me put it with an example here. Let me put in this color. When someone buys a call, this is the call profile, right? So this is the strike. So when the client buys a call, at this strike, he pays little money for, let's say little money, it's a little bit for the premium. And he's got an exponential probability of winning, or he's got like this exponential exposure, which is called, I'm going to put it here because we're going to see it later. I'll try to explain it as we explained before, it's called convexity. Yeah, this is such an important concept that we need to understand. And convexity really means that if you trade futures and the futures market moves, let's say 1% in Q, the same move is— this is just for academic purposes, it's not like the real. Of course. But if someone trades NDX or QQQs, He's most likely gonna have like 300% return. Yes. So that's why, another reason why the options are so attractive right now and they're increasing, as we saw in the slide that I showed you, they are like exponentially increasing the use of options and people trading options.

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But so that's, that's, that's an important number. That's why people came. Now, What we're talking about the market maker is like on the other side, the market maker, which is selling the call, which is the profile of the call. Listen, if this client, something happens and the price didn't go up, he will lose the premium. He will be like tiny compared to this convexity. But look, for the market maker, he lost a lot. Basically, he has unlimited losses exposure. So he can lose everything. Yeah. So that's kind of an asymmetric risk. So what is he doing? So basically he's happy to provide options flows. He's happy to charge the spread, but he needs to hedge this because if he doesn't hedge his exposure, his risk, he could, you know, bankrupt his company. So basically what they do, they are the market makers, right? So what they do, and as we saw in the slide, basically they have a portfolio of options, right? All these options they're putting in their portfolio.

Yes.

Okay. Okay. They're happy, they charge the spread. Now they need to manage this. How they manage that? with something called the Greeks.

I'm sorry.

Probably you have heard about them.

Yeah.

Right. So the first, and this comes from Black-Scholes pricing model, the one that we were talking in 1973, is kind of the base of everything because they say, okay, now I need to hedge this risk. I'm happy to do this, but I need to hedge. I don't want to lose money. My job is not to lose money. My job is to provide liquidity, charge the spread, make some money, I'm not gonna go against these guys because this could be one of the greatest minds in the world, you know. So why are you gonna go against them? So that's not gonna happen. So what they do, they use degrees. And the first is the delta, which is like that. So basically delta tells the market maker, listen, as long as you're delta zero, don't worry because market can go, you know, Something could happen, and as long as you're delta zero, you're going to be hedged. Okay? So as we saw in the slides, and let me put it down here, this is the market maker, yeah, with the unlimited losses potential from the selling of the call. So basically, delta is telling him, or that Greek is telling him, listen, if you go to the futures market, And you buy, let's say this is NQ, this someone trade NDX. So the underlying spot from the NDX is NQ. So if you go to the market and you buy NQ given by delta, that's okay. Why? Because it doesn't matter if the option goes down, you are going to be hedged. So your P&L is going to be zero. You're going to lose money on the options, But because of the hedging, buying futures, if the market goes up, you bought futures, so you're gonna hedge your exposure.

Understood. In terms of delta, what impacts delta being zero or not? Like, what does it represent?

We will see in a minute.

Yeah, but okay.

As I told you before, zero DTE are like these guys are driving a Formula 1 car and they have to be, you know, the amount of money that they need to hedge in the market is huge. You know, and the thing that 0DTR are in the market now allow us day traders in futures and options as well to actually have, and as we saw in the, we will see in the examples, you know, to take amazing trades like with very low risk.

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Why? Because they need to hedge this quickly with a lot of money. So the price gets to the level when these guys are positioned and the market maker needs to go and buy hundreds of thousands of contracts on NQ and that moves the market.

Okay.

But anyway, this is kind of clear. So this, what is this guy? This is what this guy market maker is doing.

Yes.

Okay. In order to be delta hedged. Okay. And this is just an example because as I said before, Options, buy calls. These institutions, they buy calls, sell calls, buy puts, sell puts. So basically this guy has a portfolio, right? And he needs to constantly be hedging all these positions. So the first Greeks that he used is delta. And he said, okay, as long as your delta's zero, you're fine. So what's happening then, sorry, is market moves. Markets are not static, they actually move. If you let me do it on here.

Yep.

All these Greeks, they have a shape, right? So this shape of a call is something like this, right? It goes from 0 to 1. This is the delta of an option. Now, if you think about this as this is price, okay, and this is delta. Okay, price move up, which is right. Price move down, which is left. Okay. So the price is going to move. Now, this guy, let's say here, he was delta zero. Okay. But for any reason, the market moves up. Now, this is x zero. Sorry, Matteo, I'm going to get into a little bit of maths.

No, I like it.

So this is x zero where the price, he's delta neutral. And now the market, let's say, move From this price to this price, yes, which is X1. Okay, if you see the delta change, so his delta is not zero anymore. Okay, so he needs to calculate the market maker needs to calculate the move of this. He needs to move. He needs to calculate this curvature.

Yes, right.

So we use maths or they use maths, and basically if we calculate the slope of these two points, okay. Right, which we use with the second-order derivative. Probably you remember them from school or when we were studying derivatives. So this is the second-order derivative, which is called gamma, which we represent like that.

Mm-hmm.

Or we can represent like that, doesn't matter. So what's gamma basically? Gamma is the change. This is the math representation for change, which is the same as delta, but doesn't matter. Oh no, sorry. We need to do the change of delta, right?

Okay.

With respect to the change of a spot price. You see? So the spot price is changing. Yes. I promise this is going to have, it's going to make sense when we trade.

Before, when you were, you know, doing this as a market maker, you would have to do these formulas yourself, if I'm not mistaken, right?

No, that's the advantage of being working for an institution.

Okay.

You have a team of quants.

They'll be doing it.

Yeah, they will do it, but you need to understand it. Yeah.

But what I mean is, at one point it was a manual process.

No, it's always been.

Always been internal. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

We'll cut that bit out. We'll get another take.

No, to be honest, The job, probably these guys are not gonna hate me, but the job of an institutional trader is easier compared to a retail trader.

Really?

Yeah, because you got everything. You go, I remember there were like 3 quants, you go 3 economies, you go IT, you know, I need one more screen, they put it, I need one more, they put it. And basically it's, you got everything, you know.

So your job really is then to just execute and manage.

Execute and manage and have this ability to, to do it well, be calm under pressure. And yeah, and because you got everything now, as a retail, it's very difficult because you don't have all these resources. Of course, you have to study by yourself.

And for just to point out the obvious question that people may have at this point is that they may go, well, this seems really complex.

No worries. It's gonna get to the point where we're gonna trade it very easily.

No, I like that. No, no. What I'm getting at though is, you know, 'cause I understand the desire for simplicity.

Yeah.

I understand the desire.

Yeah.

Because it's much easier to manage and try and implement. But the reality is that we are trying to trade. One of the hardest things you can do in life is trade the markets, right? And to be disciplined enough to follow an edge and create edge and identify edge. So, you know, I've come to the understanding over recent years of interviewing, you know, people like yourself and others, professional and institutional traders, is even though they may be, as you say, professional institutional traders, to your point that you just made right now, is as a retail trader, it's going to be difficult.

Yep.

Right? And the way to make it simple is to spend the time to understand complexity and to understand and take the time to research and learn.

Yep.

It will become simple after.

Yeah.

Right? But you shouldn't be put off by complexity.

No.

Or something that may seem difficult to understand, because that is the challenge of a trader, is to put in that necessary work and to figure out the puzzle pieces, if you will, of the markets that are available. And thanks to people like yourself, Freddie, who are opening the eyes and giving that education entirely for free here, You know, the option, if you, to use a better word, the option to learn has never been greater.

Yep.

Right? And I'm only pointing that out for anyone who maybe is up to this point and think, ah, you know, maybe I don't need this because I would rather use my moving average or my support resistance and just follow my technicals. When in reality, you know, having this understanding, yes, may take research, yes, may take time, but the understanding that you will have at the end of it is far greater than anything else that you'll have. And as to your point, Freddie, through having this knowledge and through practice, you'll get to a point where you'll have lower stop losses, you know, greater performance, and increase your win rate. And at the end of the day, if that's not the goal of every trader, I don't know what is. But I'm excited. So not to take you off a different tangent, I wanted to just take that moment quickly.

That's totally right. You know, as I said before, You don't need to change your strategy.

Exactly, yeah.

But if you know, this is, I promise, this is gonna come down to levels in the market where you see a level, which is, we call it, or it's been called a cold wall.

Yes.

For a reason, because the price is magnetized to that level and then reverse.

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So if you have a strategy, let's say many people use the 30-minute volume profile where they wait for the price to break up that value area high.

Yes.

Right. And I did it with— I asked my permission to Fabio if we can talk and he said, yeah, yeah. We were trading together one day and I remember his strategy, one of his strategies is something similar. And it was a cold war just there. And we were trading and he took the long because it's his strategy with certain winning rate, which means he will have losses eventually, or he's very good at breakeven.

Yes, he is, yeah.

And I say, he took the long and he say, Freddy, what do you want? What do you think? And I say like, I'm thinking to take a short. And he said, why? He said, because it's a cold wall just there, 30 ticks where you took the long. And he immediately put himself in breakeven. He's a guy who likes to learn.

He's amazing.

And he put his breakeven, price 30, 40 ticks, touched the cold wall. I took the short position and the market collapsed. And then in the same way, one day he took a short position on his strategy, And I didn't do anything. And he said, what do you think? And I said, implied volatility, the skew is telling me the price is not going any lower. I said, I don't have the crystal ball. I'm not a guru or anything, but we will see that as well. The volatility skew is telling me the implied volatility of these options on the bottom, the market is not going any lower at the moment and as it's showing. So He took profits and then the market reversed and rallied. And as I say, like that, that's a nice example. Why? Because usually people take a short position and once the market makes a new structure on the way down, they take the stop loss in profit, you know, far away from where the price is. And then they're waiting for the price to continue lower. And then what happens? The price reverses. And they lost these amounts of profit. If you knew options, if you knew that it's a put wall, if you knew that the implied volatility or the skew, the vol skew is telling you that the price is not going any lower, you would take profits on the bottom.

Yeah.

And that's what Fabio did. He took profits right at the bottom. When we have a look, the vol skew and the price rally, and that's everything is down to this.

Mm-hmm.

So I encourage everyone, doesn't matter your strategy, just spend some time to learn this because this is what's moving the market right now. And the wave of gamma exposure, I don't like to call it gamma exposure as Jim Carson say, because everyone now say, oh, gamma exposure, gamma exposure. And you got so many systems like gamma exposure. It's not really only gamma exposure, it's the whole a flow of options, implied volatility, vol skew, volatility surface, that we need to talk about that as well. It's all this complex that actually is expressed in certain levels that you can actually help you to maximize your profits, reduce your stop loss. Or I think I am an options flow trader which trades futures. Based on options flows. But anyway, so what's happening now? Imagine you're the market maker. This is a good example. You're the market maker. Yeah. And you're providing liquidity to all these guys, which are, as I said before, they're the brightest minds in the world. And your risk is unlimited.

Yes.

This is showing that your risk is unlimited. So you covered your delta. Which you've done it through that. Just this one. Now the price is going to move. Okay. Now you need your second order derivative, which is gamma. So gamma is telling you the change on delta with respect to change of a spot is going to give you a number. And companies like the one I work with is Guessbot. They translate that into dollar amount.

Okay.

Well, I try to replicate what the market maker needs to do. So now, Second part, market maker needs to go and trade his gamma. Why? In order to be delta neutral again. And how does it look here?

Okay.

Let me put another color. So it means that he, let's, we're going to put a number so people understand. If you already bought half a million dollars, right? In futures trying to hedge this position. As the price moves higher, he needs to go and buy more futures. Okay. So probably gamma, just to put a number, is telling him, you know what, you need to buy another $200K. Okay.

And is that because of the slope that it's indicating?

Yeah. The price moves, the delta is going to increase. Is going to increase.

And to keep it neutral.

Yeah.

You need to increase the position. Yeah.

So he needs to go and buy another 200,000. So he already bought 500,000. Now he needs to buy 200,000.

And this is where the overlap for those futures traders out there, this is why the options flow already is, well, it's already understood from a foundational level, but now we're starting to see really the specifics here. Yeah. Because then once you start to understand, okay, we're gonna start seeing an injection of futures orders coming in. Your, I guess as a futures trader, your job is to try and follow along with the market maker slash institution. Well, it's kind of the byproduct of the institutions, right?

And I realized this when I was market making derivatives. I used to do outright, which is forwards and swaps in the foreign exchange market. One day I came, it was, I know people say there is no aha moment in trading, but I was hedging. I can't say what client, but I was hedging 1.5 jars of sterling. So that's that's a little money. But that was a that was a client who came into the derivatives market. And if you think derivatives market is just a paper. So the guy, the client, not the guy, the client. He told me, Freddie, I need to or I need to buy. 1.5 jars of—

What does that equate to? 1.5 jars?

It's $1.5 billion.

Wow.

In derivatives, right? So obviously I have to do, I didn't have to, I have all the systems for me. I calculate the present value. I say, okay, the present, okay, I'm gonna do it. But because these derivatives, they have time with it. So it doesn't mean that he wanted now, it means that Okay, I want to buy 200 millions in a month, 300 millions in 3 months, and like that in different times, you know, different moments in time in the future. Okay, so I calculate, we calculate everything, bring the cash flows to present value, and I need to cover my delta, this one here.

Yep.

So basically my delta is saying, okay, I'm gonna sell to this client this amount of money, On this time in the future, so what's the most liquid or the the liquid the calculation involves the underlying which is the spot. So it makes sense for me to go and buy the spot already. So I buy the spot to delta hedge, and then when the time comes, I give it to him. That's in the in the foreign exchange. But we I have to calculate my delta, and in few occasions I notice with that. big amount of money, I moved the market and I moved it a lot. Like, and I thought to myself, like, no, I mean, I pressed the buttons, but it was the institution, like me as a market maker, who moves the spot market.

Mm-hmm.

And then I realized this is a nice hedge. I never, I'm sorry, I never believe in indicators, these kind of things because they're lagging. And when I did that for a few times, I realized my edge is to enter the market when the big guys enter the market.

Yep.

You know, because they're gonna move the market. And I have that in my mind for a long time. And I always tell this to people. So I have that. And then when I was trading, because I was trading derivatives and also spot, One day I was in my platform, which the minimum amount was €1 million, so €1 million, £1 million. And there were certain moments in the market where you see there is activity. And I remember one day I sold $1 million, that was euro-dollar, and that was Goldman Sachs on the bid. And I said, okay. And the market started to tick up. I sold another $1 million and Goldman Sachs was there. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna sell another million. So if Goldman Sachs is there, I'm gonna reverse all my position and I'm gonna put myself long. So I sold the million, so it was €3 million already, and Goldman Sachs was there. So based on what I did, it was like on my experience, I'm thinking, so I bought €8 million to cover my €3 million and to be €5 million long. And the market just— so at that moment I thought like, if I ever trade retail, it has to be with something like this. That's gonna be my edge. I don't want to trade lagging indicators. I don't want to trade moving average. It has to be, I want to be in the market when the big guys are in the market.

Of course.

But, you know, and this comes to that. So now we know the importance of gamma, right? So gamma, And gamma, the importance, I'm sorry, the importance of gamma is if you think about it, the price move up. Let's just start from zero. The price move up, right? So an institution came, make transactions in options, market maker provide liquidity, market maker put those options in the portfolio. And then they need to hedge his Greeks, right? By hedging his Greeks, look what he did first. He bought half a million. This is just educational numbers.

Yep.

So basically he moved the price a little bit up, right? So that's why maybe this price moved from X1 to, sorry, X0 to X1.

Yeah.

But then his delta changed, so he needs to go to the market and buy more. So this is like self-reinforcing. So who is moving the market is not anyone else but the market maker himself. You see, he buys, he moves the market up, and then his delta changes, so he needs to buy more.

Yeah.

So he's actually— there are moments, and you see it in NQ maybe, the market is just going up and up and up and up. And that's like kind of snowball. The guy's buying because he needs be delta hedge. When he buys, the market moves up and then his delta changes, so he needs to buy more. And then when he buys more, his delta changes, so he needs to buy more.

Hmm.

This is just one example because at the end of the day, he will have a portfolio, not only a call, but he will have a portfolio of calls and puts, long and short. But this is something more deep into analyzing this, but at the end of the day, he will have this hedging pressure in the market. Okay? Now he will have his gamma. Obviously now we have another order, second order derivatives, which is we can talk about charm and we can talk about vanna, but we are not going to talk about them because These are very important for long-term options, like 1-month, 3-month options. And probably with the interview with Jim Carson, he told you about OPEX, the importance of OPEX and what is called the triple witching, right? So when OPEX comes is that last week when the options expire, like this kind of 1-month, 3-month options. And these 2 second-order derivatives are very important. are very important because they create magnets in the market. They create levels where, which is called pin effect. The market goes to a pin effect, come back, it doesn't go down, then come back again, then come back again. Because this second-order derivatives, CHaRM, is with respect to time. You see, we've been studying everything with respect to price.

Yes.

But CHaRM is with respect to time. So basically, charm is telling the market maker this option is gonna expire today and how much money you need to hedge in the market, not with the move of the spot, but with the move of time. Because at the end of the day, at 4 o'clock, that option is gonna value zero. The price of that option, which was 300% at some point, is gonna be zero.

Yep.

Right? And vana is with respect to volatility.

Understood.

Okay. So we trade, I trade the first 2 hours, that's it. Because of this, it doesn't make sense for me to trade beyond that. And we'll see why. There are some academic and professional studies of what happened the first 2 hours in the morning. Institutions position themselves in options. Then it comes that that's what I'm so against. Sorry, gurus. When it came to the retail war, people were saying, "Oh yeah, there's no liquidity because the traders go for lunchtime." And I was thinking, "My goodness, I was having breakfast and lunch in my desk and never kind of you were no time because I have to be there." So it's not because we go to lunch; it's because a different flow positioning. and all the structure that we're seeing.

Mm-hmm.

So anyway, I don't look into this too because we trade zero DTE options. And for me, it's enough to trade the first 2 hours. We are learning still. So we are learning how to trade charm, but charm is very difficult because at the end of the day, close to 4 o'clock, it's a lot of hedging, a lot of hedging speculators, options, these options are gonna expire. So it's very difficult. It's not as predictable as trading delta and gamma, I trade gamma actually, within the first 2 hours. And then during the day, vanna doesn't change that much. Like the volatility from the options doesn't change that much, which is quite different from the volatility of retail traders use ATRs and all this kind of things.

Yeah. Right?

So if you think about this is what's happening and this is the whole structure now, the job that, and this is pretty new, this basically starts to make sense from 2021. So it's only 5 years compared to, I don't know, Bollinger Bands and all these kind of things that has been for—

Decades.

Decades. So we are still learning a lot, but what we have now is enough to Understand, for me, if you ask me, this is how the market works. And this has made sense in the indices because most of these guys come for hedging, right? They have to, they're forced to. That's why I like your interview with Imre Gáns because he said, I think he's very knowledgeable and he said they have to, they're forced to. Yeah.

What are your thoughts? Random question, but we're gonna see potentially a significant change in the next couple months depending on how the market reacts, but we're gonna see single stock futures come in. Do you think we're gonna see, is this information you think gonna start to be applicable?

People are already applicable, are doing it.

Really?

Yeah, because they actually—

So I know you have single stock options.

You got single stock options, and this is pretty similar what's happening there.

And so do you think that we may even see an increase when single stock options, futures, sorry, comes along? Because a lot of, we see occasionally the indices see a bit of choppy price action. A lot of people may then look for the single stock futures for that volatility and those movements.

Yeah, but you know what, when you trade this, that's what you want. You want volatility.

That's what I mean. So like when you see those choppy days, people then may take their sort of opportunity and start looking at the single stock futures with the same premise, being able to see the flow within the options over to the single stock futures then potentially.

I think so. Yeah. This makes sense, as I said before, because institutions came to hedge. So that must be the same reason. And people, you know, There always will come very clever people who say, oh, I can profit from this.

Yeah.

You know, and we do profit from this, you know, because as I said before, at the end of the day, this is gonna be translated in few levels.

Yeah, I was about to say the same. Yeah, no, but I love what we've done here and I think it's extremely clear and we've taken this step by step and I'm sure, let us know right now, drop a comment. Like, how do you feel at this point in the video? Drop a timestamp and say, um, you know, just answering that question of, you know, in terms of the foundation, do you have a good understanding? But from here, we're going to actually pull out the laptop, full presentation, breaking it down step by step. Um, so we'll do that now. What I was thinking is we'll keep the whiteboard out just in case when we're explaining, uh, from the presentation, if you wanna visualize anything or draw anything out, at least the option's there. Um, and yeah, we'll take it from there. So now we're gonna go through this presentation going step by step, more in detail of exactly what we've covered so far, but then actually, as Freddy said, how this boils down to just levels within the market. So I'm super excited. Where should we begin then here?

Well, I named this presentation for you, The Hidden Architecture That Drives the Financial Markets, because everything that we're seeing here, we are actually gonna see it down to what it is to trade, right?

Mm-hmm.

And for me, the market's always been a puzzle. I was lucky enough to be an institutional trader because I never, as I said before, I never believed in these indicators because I did actually, I did data analysis and I go like, 11 indicators, I tried to mix them up and I got like 10,000 or 7,000 combinations and none of them were good. Yeah. So I'd say like, this just doesn't work. So it needs to be something else. And I say I was lucky because I came into the markets trying to solve the puzzle. I never came into making money.

Hmm.

But I was lucky because I was working for a bank. I get my pay, I get bonuses, I have insurance, I have, you know, I didn't have that need to, you know, make money to survive.

Yes.

Which allowed me to actually start to think, you know, I want to solve this puzzle. I want to really learn what moves the market, why these big guys, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citi, comes into the market and moves when, you know, when I was—

Do you feel like having that need to make money can sometimes distract us from trying to figure out the puzzle? And instead of the puzzle, we go for whatever the quick fix of making money is.

Yeah, unfortunately, now that I've been retail trader for three and a half years, I guess, is is is you see the need for making money, you know, and and you see the quick and it's a human nature, the need to make, you know, learn things very quick, learn very fast, and just tell me the the pattern and I make money. You know, that's that's but that's very human that people. You know, people sometimes they're tired from their jobs, they do 10 hours working and they probably hear someone, oh, you know, this guy make $1 million in the markets, this guy made $2 million. So they, they, okay, I want to make $1 million. But if you think about it, I love the process where I am now. It's been more than 20 years and I've still got a lot to learn. Yes.

Well, that's what I was gonna say earlier, as you know, that example we talked about, like, Not being scared of complexity, having that student mindset to learn and evolve. You know, and yourself is a great example of that. The examples you gave of Fabio, a phenomenal trader in his own right, but yet still a student of the game.

Oh yeah.

And, you know, he, even when I post trades, and I'm by no means, you know, a phenomenal trader, and I'm trading FX using technical patterns and, you know, nothing complex, but he will, when I have had some trades, he will ask me questions about it. Like, you know, that sounds, that's a great entry. How did you do that? What are you doing? You know, and that shows you the elite traders or the ones who can put themselves into that bracket, they never stop learning.

No.

You know, and that's not to say, hey, they're changing the strategy all the time. It's just the case of constantly making sure that they're doing their best, making sure that if there's a puzzle piece missing or they don't have an understanding of, they will at least learn it to have an understanding. Should it be usable? Should it be something that provides a better edge? Better risk management, you know, better, you know, take profits as we talked about earlier. Like these little things, they seem little, but they're actually— Oh yeah, they're huge. Yeah, exactly. They seem very minute, but in the grand scheme, that's the bigger picture.

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, talking about Fabio again, he, when actually I was teaching him these options flows to him, and he was very, he said, you know, it's gonna take me 6 months, 7 months to learn this.

I like that, yeah.

And he was, you know, and he was very very kind to get me, let me stay, get into his, you know, he's got a course, he trades.

Yeah.

He teach people. And he was very kind to, you know, let me in and I talked to the community and he said like, yeah, it's gonna take me 6, 7 months if I want to learn how you scalp, right? And how, because the idea is to maybe combine everything with his style, although I got my own style, but it's learning, you know, never stop learning. So anyway, for me, it's the puzzle, like solve the puzzle. Always has been, how can I solve this puzzle, right? This is what we already saw here.

Yes.

So at the end of the day, what's gonna happen?

You did a great job. You did an amazing job of drawing that out, honestly. Yeah.

So at the end of the day, what we want as a futures trader is to be able to trade futures based on all this information, right? And that's it. Get our trades, make our money.

We have a deeper understanding now. You know, we've heard a lot over recent months. This is being recorded in mid-June, you know, 22nd of June. But over recent months, you know, we've been hearing a lot about Jane Street, right? And how much they've been making as a market maker. And it's very interesting. Now we have a bit of a deeper understanding of, you know, how they're going about doing that. Yeah.

And also, it's not that I... I just learned they also, yes, they provide liquidity, they don't take positions, but they have a portfolio, right?

Exactly.

But if they're very long in deltas, which is a concept where we will see, if they're very long in deltas in certain levels of the market, they will reduce the implied volatility of the options at that level. And what it means is in the options market, supply and demand play a big role. What is considered as a cheap option or expensive option plays a huge role because prices tend to move, or the options market tends to move where cheap options are.

Of course.

And we will analyze that in the volatility surface.

I love that.

All right. So this is, at the end of the day, what we want to do is here, we want to go into the futures. and be able to profit from this knowledge. Okay? We already mentioned who are they. They don't take positions, they just provide liquidity.

Mm-hmm.

Now, zero DTE options, the options that had been introduced to the market in 2021, nowadays they represent 60% of the daily SPX volume and the whole indices, right? That's very important. And that will We'll come into this because that changed the game, right? But also why options are so important. So I got this graph for you. This is the increase in options volumes, right? And the projection in the future.

Oh, wow.

So if you see the dark blue are the options, equity options, and the green ones are options on indices. Look what happened after 2021. They start to get explosive moves.

They do, yeah.

And the projection is even bigger. I remember when I was looking, because I need to look at a lot of data in order to, if you see, this is a process which has been taking more than 4 years, maybe, understand this. But at one particular month, the options market grew like 300% month to month.

Wow.

So that's huge. To put it in easy, I like to put, you know, easy things. So this is the options flows. If you see these waves, this is the futures, so this is the stocks.

Hmm.

So you can see the options flows, huge. They're huge. They're huge. This is a year-to-date percentage of 0DT. They went from 21% in 2021 when they were launched to nowadays 63% of daily volume. Okay. And bear in mind what I told you before, in zero DTE options, market makers are driving an F1 car and they need to hedge very quick. Okay. I just put this because it's important. In October 2025, last year, it was a record of 110 million contracts traded.

October 10th. That wasn't October 10th. Was that when Trump? Wasn't it?

Yeah, yeah. I can't remember, but it was—

It was around there, right?

It was around that day. Something happened and that was a record day. And for us, for our futures trading on September 3rd, 70% of all options volume were zero DTE.

Wow.

What does it really mean? If you think about it daily, we trade $3.3 trillion dollars on volume.

Wow.

Imagine 70, 60% are 0DT. Imagine how much money the market makers need to daily hedge in the market, in the futures, right? So that actually telling you, okay, the moves that we see in the futures are not actually random. You know, I remember when I was studying there were these discussions between these scholars in many papers, markets are random, no, markets are not random. When you see this, this is okay, maybe markets are not random. Okay? And if we somehow manage to follow that dealer hedging, the market maker hedging, maybe we can profit from that, right? Because it's huge money. Okay? And remember, more than 60% are COT options. Keep that in mind. Okay, now imagine knowing before it happens, you know, that moment where the market maker needs to go and buy hundreds of millions of dollars in the NQ. That would be amazing. I mean, for us, that would be amazing.

Of course.

It would be— it would take the subjectivity of the market, you know, because markets, people trade not the markets, but subjectivity on some strategies. You know, like trading this.

Well, this is what everyone's hunting for, right? Certainty. They want certainty. And we're not saying this gives certainty, but it allows you to have a very direct insight. Because that's what you hear probably loads of retail traders saying, I want to trade like an institution. I want to trade like a bank, right? But then what they do is then take these, a lot of the time it's gurus, but just general, you know, sentiment from social media of like, this strategy is institutional, this strategy, is how the banks trade, right?

Yeah.

But this is actually where we, no one has to say it. We can look at it. We can, you can see it. It's in the math of the market itself.

And I'm gonna give you a tip and we will see in a minute how the institutions work, trade is analyzing the volatility surface, which we will analyze it and we will trade on that. And so it's right, we have the structure, we know this guy, For me, this guy moves the market. And it's funny because when you think about what we're seeing here, you know, in the retail world, there are, you know, you see market manipulation. This is how the institutions manipulate the market. And they show a graph where the price go down and then rallies, or, you know, these kind of things. And then from my experience, it's not like that. It's like Imran Khan's in Raigam says, institutions, they're forced to come into the market. They don't care about the retail. Honestly, I'm telling you 100%, they don't care.

Mm-hmm.

They don't care about the stops of the retail. They don't care about this liquidity. They just need to come into the derivatives and the options market to hedge their portfolio. Maybe they need some levels, right? For accounting purposes, for hedging purposes. They kind of, you know what, I want to do a collar on this level, which is what we talk about like before. JP Morgan, which is hedge fund, they need to cover $22 billion position in SPS. So they come into the market, they analyze with the quant team and say, okay, I'm gonna make this collar to hedge my exposure. But it's, they, they, you know, it's $22 billion. They don't care about retails.

Yeah, exactly. Right. It's just the nature of human nature in terms of where people are placing their stops are just gonna be in the path.

Yep.

You know, that's just the natural order of things.

Yeah, exactly. So now we're getting closer to solve the puzzle. We need to understand, first of all, this mechanical influence, which we already kind of see it, of market makers hedging these zero DTE options and they go into the futures. Why? Futures are liquid the most. And I always remember Jim Carson say, that's the perfect way to hedge your exposure. Why? Because they're so liquid. That's why when he posts on X, he put a cross on bananas. The monkey want his bananas. It's just this. That's where you find your bananas in the futures markets. And then we need to understand the volatility surface.

Yes.

And I urge people, don't leave. Don't be afraid. I'm gonna try to explain it very easily. I like it. And this is how institutions trade. Institutions don't trade moving averages. They don't trade cross, you know, the 9 moving average cross the 20, the 20, the 50, and now I take the position. No, they trade using the volatility surface. Okay? Now, what's the mechanical influence on 0 DTE? We already saw it. When we see the first order derivatives, they need to hedge their delta, and they use the second order derivatives gamma to keep hedging as the market moves. And when the contract is going to expire or very close to expire, charm, the secondary, what it tells them, you need to hedge certain amount of money because time is running out.

Yeah.

Yeah. And then banner volatility. But as I say before, This is dependent, volatility dependent. And what we do in day trading and scalping, volatility doesn't change during the day, so we don't care. But people who trade options, they should look into BUNNOM. Okay?

Mm-hmm.

Now, this is what delta looks like. We already saw it. But what's important to know is 0 DTE options, if we have 5 hours, for the price or for the option to expire, this is going to be the profile of delta. You see, it's a soft curve. And we already saw that, you know, that's what the market maker— this is going to be translated into dollar amount. Okay? But look what happened when the market— when we have only 1 hour. So it's exponential. Yeah. And it changed the slope. So what it means is as time passes, the market maker needs to be more aggressive. He needs to hedge more aggressively. Okay? And also when the price gets to an important level, he needs to increase the hedge.

Yeah.

And that's when you see these big moves into the market. They get to a level and then come back.

Yep.

That comeback is what we trade. And it has a logic, a mathematical logic, right? But this is, This is what happens in delta-neutral hedging, right? We already saw this and it's like, okay, this is the client buying a call. This is just an example. This is the market maker taking the other position, selling the call. So he needs to, in order to be delta-neutral, delta zero, he needs to buy NQ futures.

Understood.

Liquidity. That's where they find the liquidity. Now, second-order derivative, price move, price is not static. So he needs to use his second-order gamma in order— this is translated in dollar amount. All right. This is going to tell him how much money he needs to keep hedging.

Yeah. So from your example earlier, for educational purposes, original position $500K, this is then going to dictate, okay, I need to add $200K.

I need to add. Yeah.

Accordingly.

Yep. And it's very interesting when you analyze calls delta and puts delta. When the price gets to a certain level, the market maker is buying, buying aggressively. It gets to a level and then you see the market kind of not collapse, but reverse a lot. And everything has to do with this analysis of delta, calls and puts. Okay. Now, I know it's a lot of kind of maths, but I'm going to try to explain this very quick.

Okay.

The blue line is 1-month options to expire. So this is an option who is going to expire in a month. Yeah. If you see, they kind of exhibit a normal distribution, which is really soft. What it means, it means that the market maker in his hedging, going into the futures and hedging, is not as aggressive. It has to be soft hedging. Why? Because the option has time. And probably you have heard from your other interviewers here that options are tri— they have 3 dimensions.

Yep.

Yeah, they have implied volatility, strikes, and time. So time is very important for options. And basically this option, the market maker doesn't need to hedge it that much. Now, as we get close to expiry, the green one is going to expire in 3 weeks. Now you see the curve is compressing, right? When the option has 3 days is the yellow one, and the zero-dip options have this kind of— it's called in mathematical terms, leptokurtic shape. You see?

It's just green peaks.

Yeah. What it means is market maker needs to be very quick and very aggressive.

It goes back to your F1 example, right? Yeah.

So this is, I like the F1 example. So the mechanical, and this is the kind of technical words given by the mechanical hedging obligations generated by zero DTE options are by any institutional measure massive in scale. Streaming gamma, which is this, streaming gamma concentrations, and execute it at machine speed. That's the words from Mandy Su from CBOE Research. I don't know if you're gonna get into options flow, you have to follow Mandy. She's—

You need to reach out to Mandy.

She's actually— Gene Carson interviewed her.

Oh, really?

Yeah, in his book, in his podcast.

Recently, yeah.

Yeah, so she's very knowledgeable. I'm subscribed to her weekly newsletter. So basically, this is the research from them, and I put it here because, so people to understand, this is not me. This is not something that I, you know, I came to my research. No, this is people who's been researching this with time. Okay, now we need to understand Volatility surface. We understood now how the market actually works, yeah, right? And the structure and the why market makers move the market. Now we're gonna get to the second part, which is I mean the aim of everything is to get to a trading, you know, of course, to the trading where we can trade this and we're gonna show it. But before that, and and giving what you say before, this is how institutions trade. They And honestly, I never look at moving average in my life when I was institutional trader. I never look at that because it didn't make sense to me. And so it's a term, volatility surface. Everyone hear about volatility surface. And for some people, especially futures traders, it's a mystery, you know, what's that thing? Yeah. But this is the weapon. This is how institutions trade. And this is, the asymmetry knowledge from an institution and retail. Retail, unfortunately, we have all these gurus selling courses, $8,000, $5,000 for, okay, let's go and trade a Bollinger Band. I'm like, oh my goodness. Now, I tried to explain this and I was thinking and I was talking to the guys from GuessBot, which are you know, after Jim Carson, I think they're the most knowledgeable person to understand this. It's 2 guys, John, he's kind of the maths guy, he trades options, and Jas, he trades futures.

Oh, nice.

So I think in pandemic— It's a good combination. In pandemic, they get together and they know the market. They know this structure from A to Z. So they got together and actually, GuessBot, which is the platform that we use in order to see this, I'm gonna show you later, they developed for themselves. They never thought they're gonna sell it or anything.

Oh, they made it for themselves.

Yeah.

Understood.

Yeah. To trade, right? And so I was talking to John before I came and I said, John, how can I explain this so people don't get— and he came up with this amazing idea. He said, listen, there are 2 types of traders, right? Sorry, not normal traders, but the traditional trader, What he does with all his strategy is looking at the clouds and see, okay, it's a gray cloud, it's windy. In countries like mine, you see the birds flying, and a normal trader could say, okay, it's going to rain, or maybe it's going to rain because the clouds, they're miles away. When you understand the volatility surface and its relationship with price, it's like seeing the same clouds but have and instruments to say, okay, this is the air pressure, this is the wind conditions, this is the humidity. All this kind of really advanced tools that can actually tell you with more precise, more probability, actually it's gonna rain. Yeah. So if you think about this is the difference from the traditional retail trader and an institutional trader, right?

Yeah. Similar example. Andrea Cimmi, when we did our Chart Fanatics, he was like, the difference, and that he's referring more so to order flow, but with a mention of the options flow. Similar example is like having just a normal gun, right? Just with a red dot sight.

Yeah.

Versus having like thermal scope and night vision and target tracking and everything. It's having that level of detail.

Yep.

To make a more informed decision based on actual data versus just visually looking.

Exactly.

Maybe at technical analysis, or even as you mentioned, use of indicators.

Yep.

A lot of people try and rely on indicators as if it's that data.

Yep.

You know, when in reality, this is the data. Yep.

Yep.

So is volatility surface that data essentially?

Yep.

Okay. Understood.

And there is a relationship between volatility surface and a spot price. All right, we saw it in kind of second plane, you know, what was happening, but the volatility surface being a tri-dimensional, we will see it how actually help us to trade. At the end of the day, I guess everyone is kind of waiting, come on, give me the trade. How can I trade this? But at the end of the day, this knowledge is important in order when you're gonna trade and we see it.

Well, we're very lucky. We have a very good audience who You know, really appreciate the depth, I believe, for the most part. Every so often you see a comment like, oh, get to it. But reality being, as we mentioned earlier, listen, we could show you levels, but if you don't understand those levels, it doesn't mean you're gonna— it doesn't mean anything to you.

And honestly, Aris, I truly believe every single trader should know this because it's gonna help tremendously. It doesn't need to change their strategy. I've seen Andreas has a strategy, volume profile, You measure 15 or 30 minutes, same as Fabio. It's not that change the strategies, it's to have some lenses, like vision. Usually I take this long position. Oh, wait a minute, this is a cold war. I'm not gonna take it. Exactly.

Or as you mentioned earlier, taking profits.

Or taking profits.

Letting some come back and losing out.

Exactly. So if you see, this is the volatility surface, okay? And the volatility surface is 3D because you have implied volatility on the vertical axis, and then you have the price, the strike prices, and time. So that creates that kind of surface. Mm-hmm.

Okay?

The thing what happens and why this is so important, when someone, an institution came and they need to buy options, I'm not saying a call, a put, he needs to buy options, he's buying volatility. And actually, if you talk to options traders, they don't trade direction, they trade volatility.

Mm-hmm.

They don't care. What we know here is they don't care about direction. They just trade volatility.

Yes.

How far is it gonna get there? Yes. But it's gonna get really quickly or it's gonna get really slowly?

Okay.

You know, that kind of things. And that's what they care. And I remember when I was working here in London, I love options. I always love options. Actually, that's why I'm in the markets because when I was at uni, I did very well in options. And then I was in the desk with these guys, the options guys in here in London. And one day I was sitting with them trying to understand things and they said, look, you see these options? We put in the drawer, we close the drawer, we don't look at them anymore. And I was like, why? He said, we just don't care. It just, whatever, it goes up or down. Okay, we are safe. You know? And I found it amazing because You know, what you trade, what I trade, or what we had learned before is, oh, it has to go up or has to go down. But never, I don't care where it goes.

As long as it's volatile.

As long as it moves or doesn't move that quick.

Yeah.

So that's what these guys play. So for us, what is important to know that when someone came to buy options, creates these spikes, right? It's just imagine you have the volatility surface, Someone came and buy options and create this cone in the volatility surface.

Yes.

Why? Because they take liquidity from the market and implied volatility increase, right? So why is that important? Because in the hedging process, obviously we cannot go deep because we don't have 30 hours to explain, but as they buy this, that create this these spikes and that attracts the price. Okay? And attracts the price because the market maker needs to buy. Remember the hedging process?

Yes.

He needs to buy. So what happens when they get to the top of that peak? The market is gonna reverse. Why? Because there is no more hedging to do. There is no more buying. Okay? And the price has to come back. If you think this volatility surface, Imagine that you have a ball, a little ping pong or table tennis ball, and the ball moves around that volatility. If the ball goes up to the peak, it has to come back.

Yes.

Well, it's physics, supply and demand.

Yeah.

Okay. And the same way, when someone sells options, they sell volatility. What it means, they make options cheap, right? And when they make options cheaper, they create these pockets on the surface, right? And the pockets, what it means, that if you think about the table tennis ball that is moving around that kind of surface, it will tend to go to that pocket.

Yes.

Okay. That's again, physics and supply and demand in auctions. That's amazing information. Once you have that information, you know what the price is gonna do.

Right.

And for the guys who trade traditionally volume profile, these spikes of buying volatility is like that high value nodes, right? Where they want to trade these high value nodes. And these pockets of selling volatility is like the low value nodes. You know, where they go to there and then the price—

Spikes through, yeah.

Moves very quick. To that low volatility and then it spikes. Why? Because there is no buyers, there's no volume. You see in the volume profile that kind of—

Yeah, we've had Carmen, Rosato, Fabio, Andrea all show the low volume.

Well, look how amazing it is. We're explaining from the volatility surface now, spectrum. Everything comes now to the point where buying options is buying volatility and creates those spikes. Selling options is creating this pocket, all right? So understanding the relationship between both surface and spot actually creates trading opportunities.

Yeah.

And that's the work that GuessBot has done. Say, listen, I'm gonna take this all information, John and Jas, and you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna put it in a tradable, easy way so we can trade because they never thought to sell it. So we can trade. Easily. Now, the fact that zero DTE options are more than 60% nowadays on a $3.3 trillion market, what it means that if you manage to get that peak of volatility or pockets of volatility, Yep. and you manage to understand that, how is that gonna affect the market? How's the market maker wanting us to do there? So then they create, this is code, you know, you can get this data free from the CBOE. The problem, it will have like 10, 15 minutes delayed.

Ah, okay.

And the problem, you will have the raw data. So what GuessBot has done is—

Taken that.

Taken it, put a lot of coding, a lot of knowledge. They know a lot, you know, honestly, after Jim Carson, I think these guys are the ones who know most about the market. And they put the knowledge for us to trade very easily. We're gonna go through some examples to see, you know, all these, you know, we try to do it the quick and easy way, but it's a lot to take. But how to translate these into actionable trading examples? And I like to think of these as, I know it's not, but it's like playing poker.

Why?

Because I imagine myself sitting at a table where on my right I got the market maker, and in front of me I got the institutional guy who put big money in the market on a certain level. Yeah. And he has to do something. And then on the other side, there is another institutional who knows what I know. So he's gonna play against, you know, he's gonna do the same game. Okay. Being an institutional is going to put a lot of money. I'm only going to put my one or two NQ contracts. I trade NQ. I don't trade micros anymore because with this, it's amazing. With this trading NQ, my stop losses, and I know when I teach this to people, they say you're crazy. My stop losses are 30 to 40 to 50 ticks. That's it. There is that precise that. That's my stop losses. They are like, oh, you put ATR, how many ATR? 150 ticks, 200 ticks? And I'm like, no. Remember, the market maker is going in an F1 car at 300K per hour. If the market moves in a level, it has to move, it will move. If it doesn't, you get out of it quickly. So this is— GuessBot has created 3 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 kind of models. So the first one, which people can trade options in SPX or they can trade futures on ES, I trade NQ basically because when you see, I don't know if you've ever seen because you trade foreign exchange, but when you see the charts on SPX, which is the SPX 500 or the SPY, which is the cheaper contract, ETF or NDX or Q's or ES or NQ. When you see, when you put all this graph at the same moment, you know, they're behaving the same. So if the market goes up in SPX, SPY goes up, ES goes up, QQQ goes up, NDX goes up. If the market gets to a level and then come back, all of them will come back. And I think it's this market maker relationship that needs to happen. You know, that actions actually create that same structure.

Understood.

So despite I'm looking at SPX for this trade, you know, for the levels, I'm trading NQ. Okay? People can trade ES. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just the same thing. So for instance, have a look at the one on the left. You see price on SPX. By the way, this is the platform of GuessBot on the subscription, which is called Classic. Bear in mind, this is not the same as just getting the data. It has a lot of coding because remember what we talk about the market maker, he's providing liquidity.

Mm-hmm.

And then at the end of the day, he goes, oh, at the end of the process, he goes into the futures to trade, right? But what happen is someone come to the market maker and say, listen, I want to buy a call at this strike. And then someone else come and say, I want to sell a call at the same strike. So the market maker is not going to hedge the buying of the call and then he's going to hedge the selling of the call. What the market maker is going to do, he's going to match them.

Of course. Yeah.

And then charge the spread from this side, charge the spread from that side. Fantastic, you guys. But if you think about it, he doesn't need to do anything on the futures market.

Yes.

And as we saw before, there is a relationship between the futures and the options. The options move the spot market, but then as we will see, the spot market will move the options. So it's a circle relationship.

Mm-hmm.

So on this side, what's happened? The market went down to this, what is called the max or the peak put gamma. These red bars on the left are puts, all the complex of puts in the SPX market. And the green ones are the calls. Yeah. So what's the logic? Why the price, you see, came to the put? We can have it bigger. Yep, that'll be perfect. The market came to the put, which is called max put gamma or peak put gamma. You see what happened? It's rejected. Tried to come back and it's rejected. People who—

in terms of this particular example, is it the red dashed line?

Yeah.

That would be the wall?

That would be the wall.

Okay.

That's within zero DTE options. This is the put wall.

Yep.

Which provides resistance. Anyone who is trading whatever strategy will like to have this level.

To get that level, it's taking all the information we've discussed so far.

Oh yeah. Yep. You see, everything comes to this.

Yeah. Well, you did say that, so we're now seeing it.

Yeah. So now, for instance, for me, it's easy to— this strategy, we will see, has 75% winning rate. And I like to trade in NQ. Okay?

And with this strategy, how frequent would you say trade opportunities come?

This one has one or 2 trading opportunities in the day. That's it. Sometimes it doesn't, so you don't trade it. But we have another model which I trade more.

Okay.

But this is— look, if you don't have this information, you would never know. You would never know that this is gonna reverse. And why reverse is the question. Yeah, everything that we saw, but We can use the board again? Yeah, of course. Okay. So why the price reversed there? And why do I like to see this as playing poker? Let's keep with the call example so people don't get, you know, I'm going to change. So remember, this is the payoff of a call. All right. And this is the strike. Okay. So this is the institutional. Let's going to put it here, the institutional.

Right?

And this is the market maker. Okay? I love this. Sorry. This is, I love this more than making money. And imagine options have something called convexity, which we already talked about it. So convexity is that exponential payoff of the options. Okay?

Yeah.

So I just wanted to to mention it.

Of course.

And now imagine you are an institution, right? And you decided to put this call in the market.

Yeah.

Okay. So what's going to happen in your portfolio? So you have one portfolio, which is options, right? Let's call it, you bought that call, so you have call positive. Okay. The market maker who sold that call, yeah, he's going to have in options terms, still the same market maker, in the options space, he's going to have the opposite, right?

Mm-hmm.

He's going to have call negative in his portfolio. But remember, because he needs to hedge his position, he also has an NQ position, right? Which is positive. So on NQ, he's going to be positive.

Okay?

Okay. Now, gamma. This institutional, he put the position out of the money, maybe when the price was here. Once the price gets to his level, he's going to— let me see if I can do it right. He's going to look at his gamma profile. This is gamma profile, remember?

Yeah.

The top of the gamma profile is going to be his delta, which is called delta 50. Why? Because at-the-money options, which are here, options at the strike, they have a delta of 0.5. What does it really mean? It means that actually it's 50% probability that the option will end up out of the money or in the money. It's just a probability game. But for the institution, if you see the gamma, it's the peak of his profit.

Okay.

So this is the point where he will make most of his profits. Now you think and you say, Freddy, but if the price keeps going higher, he's gonna make money because the price is going higher. Yeah, but there is 2 reasons or 3 reasons to take into account. First of all, the convexity of the option means that before it gets to the strike, these options increase in value exponentially.

Yeah.

Up to this point. After this point, it's gonna behave 1 to 1 because it's gonna go, you know, same slope. So it's gonna behave 1 to 1. So he's not gonna make the same amount of money as he made before. Doesn't make sense.

For it to continue.

If the market continues to go up.

Yeah. In terms of the position he has now to what could happen. Yeah.

Let's say from here to here, he makes, let's put a number.

Yeah, random numbers.

$100,000. Wow. Yeah, $100K.

But for it to move higher.

Let's say it moves the same distance. Yeah.

Right.

Let's put a number. He's not gonna make $100,000. He's probably gonna make, I don't know, $60,000.

Okay.

For the same distance. It's because that convexity.

Yeah.

So that's already a risk for him. You know?

Yep.

Why? Because if the price, and that's why the gamma goes to—

Now you're risking $100,000 to make $60,000.

Kind of, yeah. So if you see gamma profile is going up, Yeah. Up to here, and then it start to decrease. Doesn't mean he's gonna lose money. It just means he's not gonna make the same amount of money as he made before because of the convexity.

Yeah.

Now, okay. Yep. There is something else that is, okay, he make a lot of money on the way up because of this convexity. Now what happen if the price come back? He's gonna lose a lot of money as well. Obviously, great portion of the money he made, he's gonna lose it. Okay? So these guys are very clever, remember? So they know when they get here, it's a good point to get out.

Yeah.

Now, the second point, which we didn't talk about, is called theta decay, right? Which is like that. So this is the symbol for theta. This is theta decay. What theta decay is telling in zero DTE options is like, listen, You are making $100,000, but usually like theta decay, I'm putting this way, theta decay has a shape like this, you know? And if we think zero DTE options start at 9 o'clock in the morning, oh sorry, 9:30, and then they expire at 4 o'clock.

Mm-hmm.

Somewhere between I would say midday and 1:30 in the evening, this theta decay kind of explode and had this shape. What it means, theta decay means that this option are gonna lose value. Imagine that is like the government who's gonna tax your position. Yeah. Right? So that's why options are complex because people have to be aware of direction, volatility, and now time. You remember we talked about that before?

Exactly.

Yeah. So time is like you have this and every minute the government, sorry about talking about governments, the government stacks your position. So imagine you already make $100K. Now you got the risk that the price come back to you, you're gonna lose your profit. And on top of that, theta decay is gonna reduce the value of your option.

Even more.

Yeah. So these guys are very clever and they say, you know what? Are you ready? They are informed traders. They know these. So they say, you know what? I get out of here. Which is what we see on the screen.

Okay.

Now, what happens when they get out of the position? So now they sell the call.

So this all, at a foundational level, boils down to math, right? And numbers. So then these levels—

They're math.

It's just all that math that the institutions have, the market maker has, being presented into these levels.

Yep. And how to trade it is the most important part. Like, you know, understanding and understanding that is important because you see a bunch of red, you know, red bars.

More, yeah.

What does it mean? Well, it doesn't— well, this means something, but the fact that this is the major concentration, this one here is telling me this is a big guy there. I can't see, but this is billions of dollars on gamma. This is actually a gamma profile. This is the market expressing gamma terms, right? And this is telling me, just to give you an example, and this is early in the morning, you see this net gamma? It means that if the market moves 1%, the market maker would need to go and hedge $7 billion.

Understood.

in the future. So can you imagine how much is $7 billion? That's a lot. And sometimes it comes to $200, $300 billion.

Wow.

So now you see, now people, hopefully they start to get aware how much money they throw in the market. It doesn't mean they're gonna trade it, but it means that if the market moves, they need to hedge that amount of money. So back to these guys. So they hedge, you know, oh sorry, they close their position. So they say, oh, market maker, thank you very much. Do you remember the call that I bought? Now I need to sell it back to you. So basically they get zero position in options. Obviously they make the profit and they hedge the portfolio. Remember, they use this to hedge the portfolios. Now we go to the market maker. So the market maker say, oh, okay, now I sold an option. Now I need to buy it back because the guy, this institution is selling. So it's finished. Zero. Okay. So what happened now? with the futures. He's got an imbalance.

Yep.

So what he needs to do in order to be delta neutral, remember his job is to provide liquidity, not to take positions.

Yeah.

So he's got an imbalance of futures. Now he needs to go to the market and sell futures. And that make those, as I say before, remember that I talk about cold walls?

Yep.

So that's when the market, there is no more options. He needs to sell futures and that makes the market goes up, up, up. We get into the cold wall and then there is no more options to hedge. Market is gonna finish very soon. So now he needs to sell futures and that's what happens, right? This example is exactly the same, but it's the opposite. He was selling futures on the way down.

Yep.

To hedge. Now that the institution closed his position, he needs to go into the market and buy futures. And that buying futures creates this move.

Yeah. And in terms of this particular screenshot, timeframe-wise, like those candles, what timeframe is that representing?

1 minute.

They're 1 minute, okay.

Yeah. And now we will see how much that represents on NQ. All right. Now I go here. That was an amazing day. That happens once or twice on the day, on the week, sorry, where we got the buy.

Yep.

Now market—

these levels adjust though according—

no, the levels are there. This is SPX levels. What it adjusts is the gamma. These are gamma lines, gamma profiles, or gamma values.

So would they be your walls?

The walls would be the bigger one.

Understood.

Either in puts or calls. So this example is actually this one. Market goes to a call wall, right? And gets there, nothing else to hedge above, and the market reverses, right? So if you see this, you say like, yeah, When I look at this and say, of course it's this. If it's so, the market has positioned himself to certain level. Once the price get there, that's it. They call the day, take profits, and market maker needs to sell his balance of futures. Now the futures, the formula for options price, it has the futures inside. Yeah, this spot. So if the spot is coming down because the market maker is selling futures, that moves the market down. Yeah. All right. So again, everything that we saw before is just to trade these. And as I said before, why I like to see this as a poker game, because I know what the market maker needs to do. I know what the institutionals did, and most likely, And we can see it here. That's why I love KSpot. You know, it's amazing. So look, look, um, look, as the price hopefully— well, we haven't got through the, the, you know, the system, but you know, I got the market maker on my right. I know these guys who position themselves here. Yeah, they— what they're doing But look, there are other guys who are actually looking at this and they say, you know what, we're gonna buy calls at this level. Just below the— no, they probably bought it here when the price was at 7,470. They start to buy calls. Okay, here, which is this. So imagine this is 7,470.

Yep.

And imagine this is 7,500. So when the price went here, what they are looking at this. So they buy calls some way, they buy some structure, they just position themselves here and look what happens when the price get there. The price reverse there. So actually people who comes to trade gamma, it's no gamma, but the options flow through GetSpot, if they don't understand what's happening, they're probably gonna make a lot of mistakes trading those levels. That's why it's so important to understand what happens there. This is an example of what I do. So as I said before, this is on the top is SPX, but on the bottom is NQ.

Okay.

So basically I take the same position in NQ. I go long and then on these levels I go short. And that's it.

Do they line up quite frequently? So like that, this one is on the left. You can see it's hit the wall on the—

Oh yeah, because the wall is on SPX, it's not in NQ.

That's what I mean, yeah. So would you find that they sometimes aren't exact?

No, no, no. Like the walls on SPX and walls on NQ, sometimes, yeah. But I think the NQ which is the NDX traders, I think SPX being the biggest market, they probably take their analysis based on SPX and they position themselves on—

So with a position like this, where would you be sort of looking to execute and put your stop loss and your take profits?

Yeah, so in NQ, I'm looking to buy once again at the level.

Do you just buy directly or you need to see something?

I use different things. And what I mean is if the price is going very— if the slope of the price is going very hard, the slope is going with a lot of speed. It's like physics, it's gonna cross the level. So I wait for the level to recover, and then I could have a stop loss by structure.

Below the— wherever that low was.

Yeah, because remember what I said before, these levels, they have to go. This is the market maker driving an F1. If it goes, it has to go.

Yeah.

If it doesn't, get out of it because something else is happening behind the scenes that we don't see. And usually that happens. And so I take the position in NQ. Now, if the price is coming with a slow slope, more gentle, I know it's not gonna break it. It just kind of fits.

How would you describe that one there, the top left? Would you describe that as a—

But look, yeah, look. Oh, sorry. It's okay. How can I? Okay. Look what happened. We were very fast. Yeah. But I'm far away from my level. Yeah. And then look, the prices stop here. You know, that deep move down and then kind of cushion that move. Then it slowly went here, reversed slowly, and then went up. So I'm gonna show you the positions I take.

Okay, good.

So this is basically here. I try to take positions here and put my stop loss below.

Okay.

Yep.

And then are you targeting the wall on the upper side in this example, or?

Well, I try to. But as you can see, sometimes the market reverses. So I like to protect myself. Okay.

So would you say this is quite fast?

Oh yeah.

Fast take profits or scalping?

Well, fast, 300 ticks, 400 ticks, 500 ticks. As I say, because it has to move, you know, it has to take that speed.

Do you manage similar to how Fabio, you know, quite aggressively, like moving your stops into profit as price continues to reclaim areas?

Yeah, yeah. I usually, I found it very profitable, the strategy, to go in with a few contracts, 2 contracts. So I can take profits in one and then leave one stop loss or breakeven.

Understood.

Because to be honest, sometimes when— because I'm trading NQ, if I go with one contract, sometimes I take profits and the market do a little bit of reverse and then keep going higher.

Of course.

And I'm out of the trade. And obviously NQ, I don't know, you trade NQ or?

I've seen it. I've not traded it myself.

So one contract of NQ is a lot of money. You know, it's one move. You could easily, people who doesn't, you know, take something like this, they, you know, I could easily make $2,000, $3,000, but that means you can also lose them very quickly. Of course, yeah. But with these levels, you know, you can take 2 or 3 contracts. 'Cause they know most of the time this strategy is 75% win rate.

Mm-hmm.

You know, why some— oh, sorry. Why sometimes it doesn't work, and I'm gonna show you, it is that it doesn't work. It's just like if these guys position themselves lower, if another institution came and put the market even lower, that's gonna attract the price. So gamma levels, in an easy way to understand, The maximum put gamma and the maximum call gamma are magnets.

Yeah.

You know, they magnetize the price because what we see already, the market maker. And once they get there, they reject the price because of this.

So as an example, let's say if price didn't, well, it gave a reaction but didn't follow through and it broke through that level, you might take a breakeven or a stop loss, whatever it may be. Would you then be looking at this level as potential?

I will need to wait for this level to be the maximum gamma.

Okay, so then that's when the dashed line comes in.

Yeah, the last dashed line. You know, I got a very good example for you on that. It has a 75% winning rate. And to put it in words is because institutional hedging, right? Options convexity. I'm trying to— I didn't miss anything. Market maker hedging pressure in the futures market. Because of the gamma exposure. This is gamma exposure on the market maker.

Yeah.

The Greeks, which we already talked, delta, gamma, and theta decay.

The time. Yeah.

Glad that I didn't miss that. Very fast on zero DTE options as Mandy, you know, the words of Mandy.

Yes.

Yes. Is fast because of the actions of informed traders.

You know, more traders understanding this.

No, and I guess more is no more traders understanding the institutional traders. They they they trade this.

Yeah. Okay, so like the institutions using this knowledge and these formulas.

That's that's the that's the guy who put you know this.

That's who's forming these in the first place.

This guy why this guy positioned himself here when the price was down because he knew this. Yeah. And actually a joke with the guys from Guess What I said like. Listen, if I had millions of dollars, I would trade this because it's so— some strategies that are, you know, it's just, look again. And this is what you told me before. Look, this was something happening in the market, I guess.

Yeah.

Fast reaction, you know, it's kind of physics, went down very quick. So you don't buy, you wait for the market to come back and then, you know, you put your stop loss below here. I put it in NQ.

Yep.

Anyone trading options, they can put it here, SPX, they can look at SPY, QQQs, whatever, but they all will have the same structure. It's just a matter of managing your risk, managing your risk, how many contracts are you gonna put? But look what happened, they just get to that level and then reject. And everything comes down to the volatility surface. And this, what institutions are doing, what the market makers need to do.

It's like the byproduct of that money flow, understanding what decisions have to be made once something is either closed out or opened.

Yep. Look, another one. So back to your question, how many times you get this during the day? At least you have once. So I use this strategy to parse the disfunded accounts for these funded companies. Because I can put 10 NQ contracts, so I can make $6,000 in one move, and that's it. If the price comes back and I'm stopped out, that's fine. I got 75% win rate, so I know—

You move on to the next one and wait.

Exactly. So this is an example of how I trade SPX in NQ. So I'm going to show you some of my trades. So this trade is SPX and I took 420 ticks with 1 contract, which is $2,000, just by knowing this level. And talking to what you told me before, you see, let me see. So the put wall was— The put wall was at 5,550. I took my first trade. I didn't, I mean, the whole move is $2,100, but because I was hedging, I didn't take the whole It was like 1,800, but then the market come down, right? I just put this to see what's the move, you know? Yeah. What's what what that levels what moves create, and look what happened. They moved the level down to 7,530 from sorry 5,550 to 5,500 sorry 5,550. to 5,530. So what did I do during that time? Nothing. You know, people get in this choppiness and they get the stop out. So with gamma or with options float, what you do, you just wait for the price to get here.

Yeah.

And then you buy it. Some people ask me, oh, why don't you take a short position? And I was like, because the winning strategy is here. I like to be here. I like to enter the market where I understand what the institutionals are gonna do, what the market maker needs to do, and that's it. It's that knowledge that— so that was, I took that one that was 592 ticks, that is almost $3,000.

And with these, you're risking between? 30, 50 ticks.

Which is $150 or $120. So that's the power of this knowledge. Now I'm going to give you some examples, not based on SPX, but directly on the volatility surface of the NDX. Okay. Look, do nothing. So these 2 are my main Levels. As I told you at the beginning, everything is going to come to two lines.

Yeah.

Right. So we trade the main biggest line. Why? Because we know on these levels there are big guys with big money placing their bets in the market there.

Is there anything you had to tweak on the platform to get these levels, or is just already?

You select the currency, which is NDX. Prices convert to NQ prices.

Okay.

So you can see the NQ prices, not the NDX.

Okay.

And that's it. So you— this one is actually open interest. You know, I'm looking into the open interest. Um, I'm looking into the 90-day open interest.

Why?

Because I want to see all the options that are actually how the whole market has been positioned for today's trading day. So if this is 9:30 in the morning, New York time, Eastern time, I would know that anyone with positions in the market today, this is the biggest guy and this is another 2 big guys. Yeah, sorry, I should use this one. What, tell me, what do I do? Nothing. I do nothing. I just wait the market to get here and I buy. That's it.

Yeah.

So I'm actually changed my anxiety. You know, when people start, oh, market is gonna open. One minute to open, one minute to open. So I was like, oh my God, just wait. Sometimes I got levels right where the market opens. I have to be there.

Oh, when it's on the level.

Yeah, but most of the time I just wait for the level.

Yeah. So this is the market open there where the candles start.

Yeah, the market opens here. And that's the other thing that reduced your anxiety to, oh, I didn't take the long. Oh, I didn't take the short. You know, people— and that creates anxiety on people and people start to You know, make bad decisions because they miss the rally, they miss the down. All you have to do when you trade these options flows is just wait for the level, wait for the price to get there. And that one is 478 ticks, that's $2,300. I think if you do that every day, you're going to be fine.

Yeah.

This is another one. So the market, this is telling me the market is heavily positioning here because there is a lot of big positions. But the one that we trade is the maximum one, the big one.

So what do you, in that scenario, what is the take profit then mindset? You know, as price is moving towards these other big positions.

My take profits are these big guys.

These extra levels. Okay. Yeah.

Because what's gonna happen? This is gonna happen on those levels. Big guys positioned there. I know these guys are gonna do something here.

Yeah.

I know the market maker has to do something. And most likely, because the market is going down, they're gonna buy it. They're gonna profit. Everything is because these big guys profit, and then the market maker needs to buy. The one who is positioning here might gonna do the same. So the market might go to this level and then reverse. So I don't want to lose. Most likely this is going to be my first target. So this is May 12th. And actually, this market went up to the biggest gamma, which is this one here, and makes 636 ticks, which is more than $3,000, just by waiting the level. Imagine, this reminds me of Fabio. the trade he was short because of his strategy, and then take profits. Don't stop losing profit because you're gonna lose. You already called the market on the way down, fantastic. But you know what? This is a wall here. Market is gonna reverse, okay? This is another example, which is quite interesting because market opens really quick. We got this massive level, which is the biggest one as the dash. So the market crossed it and then rally, then you sell it.

Why?

You see, you sell the market because this friction here is, this is just open the market and this is a candidate for sell. And most people doing technical analysis would say, oh, this is the retest, whatever. But if you go this level, you're gonna say, oh, I'm gonna go the short because that's the level.

So the level in itself doesn't say to buy or sell. It's more so if you're below the level, you want to—

Yeah, it's showing the size. The study that we have done is most of these levels, because of these, are reversals. Yeah.

Okay. So if you're below, if you were looking to sell, you would want to— Do so when it reaches back. If you're above, when price hits it, you wanna be able to buy.

Yeah. It obviously will take some time to—

Yeah, of course.

Everything to get, you know, to get some knowledge and practice and see it. But once you have it, once you have it, it's fantastic. So look, look, this trade, 800 ticks. Where it goes? To the next big level. So, which is this one here. Right. They actually change it to here and then that's it. That's enough. You know, that's my birthday day for April. So I miss it because I took the days off when it's my birthday. Um, there is another concept called convexity, which we already studied here.

Yeah.

Now, guess what? These guys are very good because what they do is they translate everything into this actionable You know levels. So have a look. Everything market start very choppy. Many people have losses here. Market goes down and reverse to where? To that convexity level. The ones that we were looking before were open interest levels. These are convexity levels, and this is more close related to that volatility surface. So if I translate this level. On what we learned before is someone bought options here, they make that volatility peak.

Okay.

Yeah. Once the price gets there, it's nothing else for the market maker to buy and the price reverses, which on the classical technical analysis is, oh, this is my wave A, this is my wave B, and I'm gonna make my wave C. Okay.

But how it seems a little bit harder to Read the convexity level in comparison to the previous one.

Yeah, yeah. But this one works once you learn it.

So what were you looking for there in that?

Okay, sorry, you're totally right.

The last one's obviously much larger, easy to identify, while this one's quite small.

So this actually, the other one classifies open interest, which is the biggest concentration of options by contracts. That works well for the first 2 hours, and there is a reason for that.

Okay.

But, and it's a mathematical reason, but convexity, this is actually taking that volatility surface and look at peaks in the surface and that pocket. So the peaks on the surface are gonna be rejections, okay? And those are the cyan bars. The cyan bars are rejections. So if the price are coming from below to above, most likely this is going to be a rejection.

Okay.

The probability of this being a rejection is bigger than continuation.

So if, let's say in this example here, if price reached down here, it would be a rejection.

Okay.

How large, do you need a specific size of that bar? Or, because this one here, for example, is quite small. What would the blue side be?

It looks small, but there are billions of dollars there. Obviously, I didn't have the— I didn't have the model.

What's the flip side, the purple side? Like this one, really? Okay, this is huge.

So what happened, the purple one, the cyan are buying this volatility. The purple ones is selling volatility. So basically this is a map of liquidity. This is telling me where people, institutions are taking liquidity from the market, the cyan bars. and where are they providing liquidity to the market. So if you allow me to put it somewhere here, so the cyan bars, these cyan bars, imagine they're a mountain.

Right.

So imagine you have a ball, right? I like this kind of physics example. And you try to put the ball up. Yeah. What's gonna happen? The ball is gonna come down. Why? So it's gonna go up, down, right? Even if it passes, it's gonna go down. Okay. So it's gonna have that up and down, right? So this is the same, the cyan bars is where the price, because of that volatility peak, price is gonna get there. There's nothing else to hedge and then come back down. And the cyan ones, which I'm gonna do in red, This is a mountain. Imagine there are valleys. So the cyan bars is selling volatility where the price easily falls down, goes through it. So we don't trade on those because we don't have a clear understanding in comparison to that one.

Understood.

Yep. Okay, cool. Nice. So, and look, this one, We trade, we call it positive convexity, the cyan bars, negative convexity, the purple ones. So when I trade this convexity, I go from positive to positive.

Yeah.

Yeah, positive convexity to positive convexity. So that trade, 384 ticks, almost $2,000. This is another one, right? Price came down, maximum positive convexity, the mountain, And then goes to the next one, and that's it. I tend not to look at these ones. Sometimes they go to those ones.

That one seems like quite a small trade, right? I say small in the sense of, like, how long? Are those minute candles still?

This is 5-minute candles, so it's 15 minutes.

5 minutes, okay, yeah.

So we're talking about 420 ticks, which is $2,000 in 15 minutes.

So this one went from... Here to there.

Yeah.

Gotcha.

Yeah. And that's it. It goes, remember, gamma are magnets and rejections. This could go higher, but because I know this is a rejection, so I do prefer to get out of here. And if you go with 2 contracts, I guess most of people would be happy with $4,000 in 15 minutes. I'm happy with $2,000 in 15 minutes, honestly.

What are your mindsets? So like, because obviously, you know, the data so in depth, you know, the statistics of your edge, like what is your mindset personally in terms of sizing? You know, is that just something regardless of knowledge, it's a tolerance, a personal tolerance that you have to build and find yourself?

Yes. But funny thing is, when I was an institutional trader, I always say this to people, we kind of never They can never spend money on us on trading, you know, learning to trade.

Mm-hmm.

They say, listen, do whatever course you do, you wanna do, but focus on your mind. So I actually took a very good course, the last one on mindfulness for traders, which was kind of hot topic when I left because it was an article of George Soros and Ray Dalio in Reuters where they mentioned, listen, Meditation and mindfulness, or mindfulness, is what the best thing we've done, the best thing that we actually help us to get through. So in the city, it start to kind of get this kind of mindfulness, mindfulness. So I went to a course of mindfulness, and I told you before, I met these guys from Goldman's, from Citi, from these institutions. They were like top guys, but they were doing the course, and they say, listen. We're humans. And obviously, I think, what's the name? Ran Hopewell. He came here to talk—

20H, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. He came to talk about the amygdala and how to calm the amygdala. And that's what we learned. One day I lost half a million dollars in my job. The first day they put me into trade, I lost $30,000, even though they told me your risk is $15,000. So actually I start to think, why, why, you know, what's happening in my mind? Why, why is that happening? Obviously everything comes down to the amygdala, right? To, to how that's actually a survival—

A fight or flight.

Of survival. Yeah. And, and, and in this course I understood that what's happening is in your body is, um, your prefrontal cortex kind of shut down.

Hmm.

So you don't think, you don't need blood in your brain or stomach. You need blood in your legs and arms because it comes down to the caveman where, listen, you need to live, so you're gonna fight or fly.

Hmm.

So you don't need blood in your brain or stomach. And that's why you, when you people are getting, happened to us, it happens to everyone. You know, we are getting close to our stop loss. You get that sensation in your body. But it's actually cortisol spike, a spike telling your body you need to fight, even though you're sitting in front of a computer. Right. But that's the nature of them.

Our mind doesn't know the difference, right?

No.

Danger or safety.

Yeah. And that's when people take revenge trades. They move the stop loss because they, it's this fight.

So you say mindfulness is really the practice of Being aware and present enough to know when you're getting to those edges.

So basically, the good thing about gamma is my stop losses are 30, 50 ticks, which is I'm risking $150, sometimes $200 to make $2,000. So that's kind of 1 to 10. But I also have stop losses, of course. This is, you know, I've made mistakes. So I've been practicing mindfulness since then. It's been, I don't know, more than 8 years. And that helped me to understand that when I have a stop loss, it's very hard on me because to be honest, I have a stop loss every 2 or 3 weeks. I have one stop loss, which is not good because I'm used to winning.

So then if one happens slightly more frequently—

Yeah, if one happens, Because it doesn't happen quite often, it's really bad. I feel terrible. And I know myself, and I know I need to shut down the platform, and I just need to leave because I know nothing I can do. Amygdala is there, cortisol is there, the revenge need is there. If I stay at my desk, that's it. That's the end of my account.

So would you say even having such depth of knowledge of the markets, but, and your stats and the statistics, Regardless of our human nature, you need to tap into that and understand yourself.

Yeah.

Because equally, there could be another trader, same knowledge, same strategy, everything, but maybe their risk tolerance is slightly higher or they're able to handle the losses better. So therefore they can make their rules around them.

Yep.

Yeah. So I think there's a misconception that people assume once you have, say, data or strategy or edge, you know, it becomes easy. But in reality, the human nature element is very different to every trader.

Yeah. On the other hand, we all are the same. We have the amygdala, which is the only function of the amygdala is to keep us alive.

Yeah.

And survive as a human species. Yeah. Trading, you know, that's why 95, 97% of the traders, the first year, they blow up their accounts and they do. Why? Because we're humans and there's my own, philosophy and analysis is we are not built to be traders.

Yeah.

Humans are not built to be traders, and that's why so many people lose. Some people, you know, talking about statistics, are on the normal distribution, on that tail that they're being so good. Like, for instance, most of the successful traders you have interviewed, they have something in common, and I guess it's the fact that they're very good risk managers.

Yeah, exactly.

They know when the stop loss come, that's it. Tomorrow's another day. I remember one guy you interview, he say when I got— when he has a stop loss, he stop for 2 days. And that's very sensible 'cause you need your body to dec— the, you know, to clean.

Mm-hmm.

And your mind to clean.

Try and get back to neutral.

Yeah. You probably have a very good, a very bad stop loss that at the time was really hurting, you know, got your feelings, your emotion. Probably you don't remember now, you know.

Exactly.

And that's why you need time to, to clean. So I do practice mindfulness. I do practice my— I like Ray Dalio when he said, I like to think myself outside my body and look what I'm doing.

Yeah.

So I try to do that because when you trade, you're like kind of in this universe.

That's why Randy says to record yourself.

Yeah.

You know, so you can see yourself tensing up or the heart rate.

I'm actually using heart rate.

Yeah, he's the same.

So I got my monitor and I know when it goes higher, my heart is— you don't see it unless you have something to monitor. So I think it's quite important. And actually the people who actually take my— the people I have coached in South America, I like to bring this to the Spanish community because it's very difficult to find this information, let alone in Spanish.

Yeah, exactly.

So I give to them my 8 weeks. which I learned here, my 8-week training. Oh, the mindfulness, yeah. Yeah, I try to do that for them. But anyway, back to this. This is a 420-tick trade. And I put this because I use this platform to trade ATAS, to trade order flow, which, because I think I wanted to see when the market maker comes into the futures, what do I see in the futures?

Yeah.

What footprint can I get? So I was learning this platform. Unfortunately, I paid a lot of money getting into the hands of these guys who charge a lot of money to teach you things that don't really explain the market. But anyway, the good thing is I use the platform and I can see when this market maker comes into the market. For instance, probably you have heard from Fabio as well, the big trades.

Yeah.

Yeah. So have a look. This is what a traditional trader sees. So you see big trades here, big trades here, big trades here.

Yeah.

You know, big trades everywhere. So, you know, I found it difficult, people who trade big trades, but this is actually a trade I took and I bring it here on May 15th. Did nothing until the price went to major level and then I took the long, right? But on the platform, on these big trades, what I saw, look, the difference between these big trades, trying to take a long position because you might think they're what is called trapped sellers, actually has a higher probability of success when you have this major level given by the options. This is like an easy trade. And I'm sorry to say this, I don't want to sound egocentric, but it really is an easy trade. You know, you go here.

You have that alignment.

Yeah. And then you go your level, just go long and put your stop loss here. Now, what people call trap sellers, this is just the market maker here. You know, that's the market maker putting a bid because he knows in advance that all these guys, he knows in advance that the guys positioned there, they might gonna take profits. So I do truly believe, hopefully I'm not gonna get revealing the mysteries of the market makers. But they're here. They're in the bid.

Yeah.

Right? They're waiting. And because they know now they have all the futures they sold on their way down, they need to buy it back. And that creates the move. So this is going long here and put a target here. So this is the trade when you combine with what people see in order flow or footprint. I got another one. Oh, so that was the same day I took this trade. Went for lunch. I was working on my course and things. And when I came back to lunch, I saw the price was really close now to the next level.

Yeah.

So I said, okay, now, you know what? Was there taking the short based on what we saw, the same logic. So I took the short and I went to the next level, even though the market kept going lower. That's fine. I just took the short 300 ticks. It's enough for after lunch, having a coffee and trade that.

Mm-hmm.

I'm talking about NDX, and there is a reason why I trade NDX, because an NDX contract compared to— so the two, how can you trade or how can people trade options following the Nasdaq is they can do it through NDX and QQQs. The difference is one contract On QQQ, one standard deviation in, in, in at the money could be $60 to $70, one contract.

Yes.

And the S could be $10,000 or $12,000. So if you think about it, who is gonna come to the market to trade $1,000, $10,000? A big guy.

Yeah.

And I've seen them, they come and put $600 million, $500 million, $900 million. in gamma exposure, that's gonna move the market.

Of course.

Guaranteed. But now recently with Just, which is the futures trader on GuessBot, we are actually looking at QQQ because look, look what QQQ does as well. So our, my theory and my hypothesis is very clever traders in options, And what I mean traders, I mean funds, CTA accounts, these kind of mutual funds, hedge funds, pension funds, which are not as big as the other ones. They analyze the market with the volatility surface as I show you, and they take positions on QQQs as well.

Yeah.

Based on what they see in SPX or NDX. And have a look at this. Again, this is the same, you know, what people call patterns, I guess. Price get, who is there? The market maker. It's not sell trap sellers, it's the market maker in an important level going to the next level. So it went to the, remember the pickpocket on the buying volatility?

Yep.

So imagine the surface, we got a pick, not pocket, pick, big spike, this spike that creates this cone. So the price go reverse to where? Where there is a pocket of volatility, which is the purple line. And it's funny because that day I did it twice and did it here.

Sure.

Took profits here. I bought again and I put it here. And that's what normal or traditional traders say, oh, that's a double bottom.

Yeah.

Well, it's not a double bottom.

It's just those positioning.

Positioning, right? And I think, obviously didn't have time, but there is another 2 tools that we use, which is called GuessBot Order Flow. And did you remember the volatility skew? Do you remember the ball skew? If you cut it and you take a slice, you get a volatility skew. So you get the volatility surface in 3D. You cut it, you get the volatility skew. That volatility skew, which is this one here, basically is telling you supply and demand in the options traded, transacted, and the other one is quoted. So what the market makers quote. This, we go back a little bit to the fundamentals, but analyzing this is also analyzing You know, how can we trade this? And GuessBot got a very good— they're gonna launch it where we can actually gonna trade this. We're gonna trade the volatility skew, which is— this one is just a visual representation, but we're gonna trade it with high probability. As we trade gamma levels, we're gonna trade this, you know, the same level, you know, same— we've done the whole day to come back to 2 levels. They do it with volatility. And they visualize it. And this is back to the call example. When an institution came and buy a call, it's gonna make an effect on market maker. So basically this order flow measure that. And for instance, you don't see this, but I mean, if you are a traditional trader, you don't see it. But here someone with $100 million in gamma exposure, they bought volatility. So it's the same concept. You get the cone. What's gonna happen on this move is gonna be reversal.

Yeah.

So we trade this. We trade, oh, someone came, $100 million. That's a lot of money. It's gonna reverse the market, most likely. So probably next time.

Yeah, definitely. So, you know.

And just to finish up, every trader, and I wanted, that's why I put this slide, because In my Spanish course, I got options traders and they had no idea about this. I don't know, they teach them how to trade with Bollinger Bands and I'm like, probably you get a grasp of what is options. How can you trade moving average and options and Bollinger Bands on options? This is very important to know the ball events, which is the OPEX, which is monthly.

Yep.

Why? Because all these options expire And the institutions, they roll it over or they let it expire. They let it expire on that day. But the market maker needs to do something. So these days I keep on my mind, because as I told you before, there are the days where traders are, oh, today the market was really hard. Oh my goodness, that was choppy. Yeah, it was OPEX. You didn't know. Triple witching, which is the 3rd Friday of March, June, September, and December. Why is that important? Because that's on that day, options on indices, options on single stocks, and options on futures expire. So you got 3 assets that expire, 3 derivatives.

On the same day.

On the same day. What the market is gonna do? Roll over? Okay. Expire? Okay. But the market maker is there doing this buying and selling on the futures. So that day I don't work that day. Especially because that day we don't have zero DTE options. I don't have an edge, so I don't trade. I go with my wife to have a nice coffee. B-Expiration is very important because it's the Wednesday that exactly 30 days before the third Friday, all connected. And that's the expiration of options on the VIX index. Why so important? Because They expire at 9:30 Eastern time.

Yeah.

So basically they expire when the market opens. What I have noticed, I don't have data, but if the market goes down, it will continue. You know those days when the markets start to go down, down, down, down, down and never reverse?

Yep.

Most likely are Tuesdays, or it start to go up, up, up, up, up. Why? Because there are millions of dollars on these contracts expiring.

Yeah.

And the market maker is doing that. And you know, there is an inverse relationship between the VIX and the indices. So they have a negative relationship. Yes. Yeah. So look, we got these billions of dollars expiring on the VIX, that's gonna move the index.

Of course.

And the last one that we talk, everyone trading options in this way knows and are very aware of the JP Morgan, the equity fund, $22 billion. They hedge it on the end of March, June, September, and December.

End of the call, yeah.

So that is, you have to, this is the bull events that you need to be aware. And during this, if you Google CBOE 2026 options calendar, you will get it.

Yeah.

So people need to be aware of that. And well, thank you.

Absolute pleasure. No, Freddy, this has been an in-depth, true masterclass and a massive insight, not only for me, but I'm sure for the audience as well.

Hopefully.

You know, and this is, I know, as you mentioned, like this is a fraction of what you could dive deep into. And yeah, we're excited to get you on Chart Academy and have a more in-depth view over there. So make sure you check that out as well. Fabio's over there, as mentioned earlier, Randy Howe's over there as well, all for free, just like this. And again, a huge, massive thanks to you, Freddie, and for all the work that you're doing, not only in the LATAM community, but here as well with us and just generally sharing such in-depth knowledge from your experience. It's an absolute pleasure. No doubt helping the overall industry improve, not only in their knowledge, but also showcasing what real trading really is about and what to focus on.

So fantastic. No, thank you so much. Thank you for your invitation. I'm really happy. You know, when I left the institutional world and came to the retail, it is, you know, like really, let's put it this way, I'm Colombian. What really breaks my heart, broke my heart, is people trying to do a living on trading. And they get these gurus selling things that doesn't make sense.

Of course.

And they spend thousands of dollars on this. So I was trading, I went back to Colombia. I knew I could do this. I kind of knew with my heart. We didn't have information, as you can believe, you can imagine, which this kind of information is the war for 3, 4 years with the guys from GuessBot, amazing guys. And at that time I didn't have much information, but I was trading in my apartment. And then a friend of mine came and said, what are you doing? And I was like, do you wanna learn? And he did a Spanish interview to me in his YouTube channel. And from that on, all the Spanish people were starting, like, you know, Spanish speaking, like, you know, like get— because when you see this, actually makes sense.

Yeah.

You know, it's—

well, it's backed by not only data, but then the results are there as well. And the experience. And unfortunately, not only in the LATAM community, but just generally within the trading community, you know, there's so much marketing and lifestyle. And again, them being promoted strategies that don't have any either verifiable results or data behind it, even sometimes both, which is even worse. So I like to think that when people who really are passionate about trading, even if they're not profitable yet, but they really are passionate about trying, when they come across someone like yourself, someone like Fabio Valentini or Carmine Rosato, or like people who are genuine and have that data and have the results as well, people then are drawn to them.

Yeah.

They then start to get educated and have a stronger awareness of what real trading looks like, which is great for the industry, because then the more people who have that awareness and that almost awakening, if you will, the more hopefully we'll make a difference, you know?

Yeah. And this is just a start. Like the guests, like the— I like Jim Carson's words. It's no gamma, it's just the options flows influence on the market.

Mm-hmm.

And this is just starting. The wave is just starting. We are just starting to get this knowledge that institutions have had and they don't share, obviously. But we just get into it. And honestly, as I said to you before, I'm lucky because I came into this not with the need of money, with the need to It solved the puzzle.

Of course.

And when I teach, you know, it really like kind of, I feel very happy because people send me texts or send me messages. I remember 2 in particular. One lady say, I never made $5,000 in my life in a day. And she was like, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. And I told my wife, I said like, this is, you know, bring me happiness. And the last one was a guy, trading options with his wife. They sent me a message, said, we never had a green week in a year. We never, never. And they say, it's amazing that we have a green week. They told me, it's just amazing. And one Italian guy, he told me, Freddy, till this, he's in my course. He said, that looks illegal. And I said, well, it's here for you.

That's what we like. Freddie, I appreciate you. We'll be glad to have you back as well. We're gonna shoot your words of wisdom right now. Everyone at home, drop a comment with your biggest takeaway from this episode. Any questions you might have, I'm sure there'll be many, drop them in the comments, 'cause me and Freddie will take a look and maybe that will be part 2.

Oh, definitely.

We'll form that into Chart Academy, but we'll make sure to, to cover that as well. Links for Freddie are in the description below. Go show him some love. Links also for Gekspot by then will no doubt be in the description below also. Because we're going to connect with them guys.

Oh yeah, actually, actually I got a very good offer. I'm going to put a link where they can test it for 1 month with 65% discount. So they can actually, don't need to trade it, they just put the levels what we show here and then you can see, keep track and you see your strategy and see how it fits. So these guys actually give me a 65% discount for everyone who wants to have a look. And the important thing is I don't work for GuessBot. I've been talking to these guys and I'm very, very, very grateful because we learn a lot from them. We learn together as well. But they are in the move to, they need to teach people. They are not in the move to make profits. They just say, we need to teach people, we need to make people more aware.

Mm.

And they give me, you know what, 65%, so they can test it and they can have a look at it. And I'm sure people will love it.

Well, hopefully we'll see them on here as well, or somewhere in the future as well.

Yeah, definitely.

Everyone, until next time, everyone, take care.