The Coach of Trading Champions: Tom Vorwald

Foreign.

We lost some good trades today.

Yes, yes, I'm very happy about it. Nice that you stay here and help me to lose good trades. Yeah.

I think this is what happens when you start to doing content and education.

I must learn and that I can do everything together. And yes, now I'm totally happy with it.

Yes, more or less.

No, it's okay.

I mean the trader. The job of the trader needs a lot of focus.

Yes. And 100%.

I think a lot of traders, a lot of fake gurus in the social media space, they tell you you can trade from your phone, you can trade in the beach. I think it's all. It's all bullshit.

No, it's all bullshit. You must sit on your trading desk. You must do a lot of. Before you start with your trading, you must prepare a lot of ideas for trading and then you must do it. It's a little bit like a LEGO game. You must create Lego, build Lego and after that you play with Lego. And for most people it's not possible to do both.

And how long have you been first trading and then teaching. But let's start from trading.

Yes, yes. I started trading in 2004 and was a very famous story. It's very interesting. I think for the people to listen a story like this, it's not normal. The first leading to trading was an investment in trading. And I don't know what I do. I have nothing, nothing ideas. What is trading? I put the investment and they talk to me. You will earn every month 10% and more. I think, okay, cool. I think, okay, 10% and more. Okay. We sold a house in this time and I think, okay, 15,000 every month. It's enough to live. And I must don't do anything in the future. Total knave. But that was my first idea. When was this? It was in 2002. 2003. Yes. After this investment, I stopped it. I killed the investment. And it was a big investment group. And this was a very good investment, you must know. But I killed it because you must know. In December, nobody trade and I got a performance 1.7% from this trust who traded it. And I stopped it. I said, no, this is not what we talk about. We talk about 10% and more. Stop it. And that was my first. Yes, approach. Approach. Yes. And after it I think a little bit more about because I meet there in big investor. He come from Switzerland and he tell me, hey, boy, you have very big balls. We talk trading language and nobody do like you and go to the big investors, to the banks and say, stop it. And I do it. Yes. After it, the big investment was crashed because we was a lot of investors. And it must be 1s of amount inside of the trust. And it goes out there wasn't happy. But the one who come to me, he come from Switzerland, an older man, he was over 16 years old. And he told me, do it by yourself. I think how I have idea. I have a friend in a bank. He teach students in the bank for their own trading. And this time they traded by themselves with stocks. And I make appointment for you with him. And he will teach it you at the weekend. Okay, I will learn easy. One weekend he teach me everything. It's good. It works today. Okay, you must know it works today. Now, after over 20 years, the same structure, but it's not my way to trade. And it's only a breakout strategy with very, very small income. You must need a lot of power to earn trades. You have a very high hit rate, but you must be very disciplined. And now reason is coming, the discipline to understand what is risk management. I have no idea about risk management. He don't teach me. He only teach me a strategy, copy it and earn money, saying, yes, I will do. I put all my money on a broker and I start trading. But my money was not growing up. It was going down, down, down a little bit more. And after I think 20, 30% down, I think, man, this is not good what you do. But I see a lot of ideas were going very good. I will phone him and talk to him. What should I do when a trade doesn't work, but I can't reach him and I'll connect to him and I can talk to him. And I must think about by myself. It was not possible like today to look in the Internet, talk with other people, anything else. But okay, the start was born. Because I'm a person when I have problems, I do anything to find opportunity, a solution to change it. And I studied by myself. I think a little bit about. And I was thinking, thinking, working. Every night I do replay. But replay not like today was an easy way of replay. I must take charts, pull it back and go take, take, take, take, take ah, one take, take, take, take one. And I look for every, every setup he teached me. It was only two setups and I'm looking in markets. Then I start looking into future markets. Because at first I do it in CFDs, then I look in future. Yeah, and CFDs in 2004 was it? Yes, it was CMC Markets. The first broker who gave us the opportunity for safety contracts. Yeah.

And what, what was the platform you were trading with? Was it this one?

CMCM and CMC markets.

Yeah. You were trading or was it like. Because now they use MetaTrader for, for CFD.

No, no, everything the broker. Yeah. No, no, no, no. It was only a breakout trading set up. The structure was okay, so CMC software give me enough information and you can click there and it's easy for me that was my start. It's possible it was 2005. I put it to CMC Markets. I don't know, I don't remember but I started and do it and I see very fast you can take the same strategy for index. You can take the same strategy for crude oil. And I think okay, it's much better. You have more leverage. You don't must spend so much money inside and you have not so much stress. Because I monitored every morning 40, 50 stocks with my hands two hours, two and a half hours before I start trading session to find nice setups. It's not easy work. You must look at first in the daily time frame. Then you copy everything into the 50 minute charts and you copy everything in the one minute shot and then you press a button in the one minute. Yes, it was, it was a way, it was interesting for me but I feel not comfortable with it and I must think a little of more what I can do. And I think okay, every time when run was coming they become an aggressive down move or up move. And I feel much better when I see this opportunity to trade because I am somebody, I like it to go against the narrative.

Yeah.

Yes, yes, yes. And I will look for new figures in trading for counter trading and you know, if you have no context, if you have no idea where you can look for it. You found thousands of ways and examples it works. But a lot of them don't work. And then you start trading. It works it work it don't, don't work, don't work, don't work. Okay. And then I was doing planning, creating new ideas and I go to Tamitrader. It was opportunity talk with other people about trading and it was a forum and it has a chat. And in this chat I meet a lot of other traders. I think it. I don't know the time, but it was very early and I see the first time there are other traders with other ideas and they talk all the time about it. And I was interested to other people. And I meet someone from Switzerland and he make a big business. He was very aggressive in his business. He Was totally crazy. I understand now because he got no risk management or his risk management was to earn 10% per day or lose 2% per day. Per day. But. But when he lose, he don't finish all trades all the time. I see. Okay. It was not so nice to see it. But he got so much profit. You cannot imagine. It was crazy. And then Lehman Brothers was coming and Everybody changed in 2008. Yeah, in 2008. And I traded with him together a little bit, a little time. And a lot of mistakes were coming. Yes, we lose a lot of money. I come back from holiday, everybody was killed. A lot of money was killed on my side. I was not able to find ways to make a change.

If we can. If we can say it. How much money did you lose? More.

No, I don't want to say it. No, I don't. A lot of. A lot of. I was flat, totally flat. Biggest problem was in this time I had a lot of friends. I meet him like tamin trader, like other ways. And they trust in me. But I have so much problems. I traded. They give me money to trade. It's forbidden. Don't do it, Never do it. But in this time I do it. I don't know. I have no other opportunity to do anything. Yes. And I lose money. I lose money. I lose money. I was totally died in my brain. My brain was flat because I have so many problems. About the time before that I was not able to trade. And then I stopped everything.

You were super emotional with the trading.

Totally emotional. I stopped everything. And I go work. I think I must work now. And I created a lot of houses in the past with other people. When I studied, I work with a painter together. And I think I must do anything to earn money. At first I will do it with my own money. And I go for half a year, working very hard working in this time. But every evening I come home and go on my PC and look about three.

What were you working on? Like, what was your job? Painting and building. Like in construction?

Yeah, I make art. A little bit design and art, painting in houses. It was very nice. Like technical structures with lasers. I don't know. Yeah, and it was. I was very good. It's very creative. And I have done it in the past. And I think, okay, I must do it. I must earn money. Another friend build a house, buy a house. And I can't help, can help him. And I tell him I can do everything and you pay for it. I organize everything, like architect. And I have done it. I have done it for over half a year and I earned a little bit money. And now I come a little bit money back and I put it and I start trading again. And that was the way for me, the uncomfortable way. In this two years, one and a half, two years, I must grow a little bit more up, but I must. I remember today it was very good for me because I lose so much money, I do things it was not good with money from friends or anywhere. But I understand so much about me, about myself, what I never can do when I have too much pressure, when I have too much stress with other people, with my family, with anything. Today I know don't try, it's easy. But in this time I learned it, I feel it. And mostly of the young traders who come today and think they can copy a strategy and trade with it. They have no knowledge about everything. They have no experience with it. They are too young. You must do your experience or you must read or talk with somebody who got experience like this. And you can feel it. This is very important. Everybody can tell you stories, but if you don't feel it, you have no remember function in your brain and it doesn't work. So yes, and this was the first story, the first experience in my trading. And then I decide I will trade together with other people. I will sit together with other people in the office. And we started very small, alone at home. I have visitors in my home for my wife. It was not so nice all the time that visitors are coming in the morning, going in the evening. We talk, we trade together. But it grow up.

This was the time you met with.

Serge a little bit later. A little bit later, yes. The first one was Klaus. I built a little office with him then outside from my home. And we think about what can we do. Also I meet Oliver, Oliver Klem in termin trader. And he visit me in Germany. And we think about, hey, Tom, what you do is very good. Explain it other people I have never seen about before that I can explain other people my trading style. And I think, okay, I will do it. And I do it. And I see, okay, the people were totally happy about my explanation. But I have the next idea. I think, okay, I explain it and I will trade with them all together. And that was not a good idea because I traded the most time in Dax future. And you cannot imagine what happens if 200 people will trade on Poindex future. But the next experience for me, this is not a good idea. Sometimes I have done things it was not so intelligent because I'm somebody I Do and not all the time. I think too long. What I do, I do it. And now today I have a rule for me before I do a decision. I sleep one night, I talk with my wife, I talk with one friend. And then I go and do what is in my mind the right way. Yes, it's. It's important for me because I was very red. I do, I do, I do.

And you were on fire.

Make a problem and found a lesson for the problem. Find solution. A solution for it. Yes. And yes. This was crazy. But for me it was very interesting to work with other people and explain him on my experience, all my strategies. I learned a lot of stuff about volume profile in this time. It was 2012, I think 11:12. I found a lot of stuff of volume profile. And I do the same like in the start every night. I was working so much, I was so interested in. I want to understand everything about it. And I think I understand a lot about this way of trading. And I know it's only one. What is the right word for it? One side, one step, one little step of my trading journey. But it's a very good step for me to see where's the mark imbalance, where's action. How can I take my. My setups inside and anything else. And I must come back. Oliver talked to me. Let us do it together. Let us have good work together with students. Let us test it. Okay, so okay. But who will buy it? I have a lot of people. They are interested. I talk them because you see all the time what I talk in termin trade. I put pictures inside. We make a little bit live trading together. And I do it. Yes. And then the students buy it and was very happy. But I see one year, one and a half year later, most of them are not able to become profitable. And I think why. And sometimes I teach other people it. But not in a big way. Only here a little bit there, a little bit there a little bit only with small groups of people. Explain them everything. I know because I think they need everything. What I learned in all this years, that was my idea. I will give him everything. And it was total too much. I don't understand. They need only this and this and this. And put the puzzle together and make it for themselves. But that was my first way. My experience was teaching for other people. And I learned so much. What the people need in this time of from 10 years. And I have partners and companies that help me with structure, with everything. Because I'm not a structure man. I don't like it to prepare company to pass this and to prepare this and make this bullshit things.

I know you don't like bureaucracy and paperwork.

No, I will. I will do creative things and anything else. Yes, yeah. And yes, it was a good way. And in 2013, I think, or 2014, I don't know. I come together with Serge and I meet him also in termin trader. And I was very interested was he what he talk and we fight all the time. And it was a fight. He knows more, I know more. My trades better, his trades better. But it was interesting. And then I think, okay, we do it now for a lot of months. I think we think the same. We do a good job and let us talk together. How is it able to combinate it? But the trust was a problem. Most people think they turn. They can't give anyone the same structure of trading you prepared, you created. Because it's a big gameness. What, what is it like a secret? Yeah, it's a secret for yourself. It's a key secret strategy. I never think it's secret. Some things are very special. I know, but you must combinators with the context. I know it. And we put everything together. We become trust together. We meet us together personality. And yes, we talk more and more. And then we put everything together in one bottle. Make shake it, shake it, shake it and look together. What is the best way to do it? And I must be true, this way is the same way. Like today, there's a little bit coming more, a little bit many. The markets are a little bit different, but the knowledge of everything the same. Like 10 years before it's the same knowledge or eight or nine years before we do always the same. Because the structures of the markets all the time the same. And if you can read the dynamic, if you can read. For the most important thing is to read what is the context structure, what is your idea which way the market will go today, for example. And how is it able to trade it? And this is a way of trading and not another thing with secret stories about it. This is bullshit. Yes. Yeah.

I think that the only secret strategies maybe can be some algorithmic strategies that you know, they are efficient for some time and then they stop working.

And that's.

I can understand that secret, but for a discretionary trader, for a manual trader, it's completely different. Like there's no real strategy that you can copy. And this is what I think is the most important thing I learned from you in this years that we've, you know, collaborated and with Patrick, which we'll get deep into later and yeah, what do you think? What's your tip for a trader who is, you know, going in the Internet, seeing a lot of different strategies and different concepts and then they try it and it doesn't work for them.

I think you must go one step before the first thing. What you must know is who you are. If you are somebody who's very aggressive, very speedful, it's important that you trade a strategy like this, for example, order flow scalping, for example, very fast breakout trading. But if you are a person who is going all the time behind the market all the time, slowly you have or trust in you, you will be a very good counter. Trading in combination with swing trading, for example, and a lot of situations, you must check before you must check who you are, you must check which strategy is working for me. And I think most coaches in the trading world give other people strategies to copy and paste. How nobody knows the strategies are running for the future, but they do it and you will test and copy it. It never works. It never works for a long time. Especially now we have a time for a lot of years the markets are going up, up, up, up, up. There was Corona and it goes up, up, up. And it's an easy way to trade if you are somebody who like trends trading. For me it's not so easy because I like counter trading. Yes. And now I must find other things I can do. But a lot of people like it to go with a mark to go like other people do and it's good. But what will I say to you? What will I talk to you? I think we will have a change in the next years and nobody is able who is older than 32, 35 years old and have never seen a real bearish market like Lehman Brothers all the time before is able to trade in this time. And I think the option traders, they will lose all their money. I've seen it one big dip, everybody's crying and then they talk to me, oh, it's no problem, it's going up, up, up, up, up. But in this time a lot of people will lose all their money because they had no experience with real bearish markets. I love it when the market is really bearish because you can be rich in a bearish market and not in a British marked in the end of a bullish market. We don't never know when is but the prices are not so fair now. And I think also we have a long time going up, up, up. And there will come rumble, big round.

One big market Crash?

Yes, yes. And I don't know it will be a crash. I think it starts slowly. But also it's possible the time is changing a little bit that it goes very fast. Everything is able. But I know the time will come. And most of the students and most of the coaches have no ideas what they will do. I know what they do. They lose all their money. The coaches don't lose some money, but all the traders will lose the money because they don't know what is to do. And this is important. If you talk with a coach, if you talk with a trainee that he can explain you what is to do in this Descartes and this Descartes that he can explain you how it works, his strategies or his context ideas, his setups with the context ideas. When the marked make a big change. That is important for you to know.

How do you approach a change? If tomorrow the bear market comes, how do you act?

I don't know. I will come tomorrow. But when it will come tomorrow, I react. I go in my office, I close the door and I make Skyping and day trading for 12 hours. And that I do every day. Because I know in this time, in this half year when it's rumbling after it go up and then comes the real rumble. And in this time you can earn so much money you cannot imagine. If you understand the strategies you must put inside and you can make very nice. You must know the difference between a normal mark like this, like now and bearish mark is in the bearish market is it goes fast down and fast up and fast down and fast up. Most people think it goes down and down, no? And you can trade this story and this story and this story. But you must know how is it able? How does it work? And I can read it because I learned a lot of stock trading and also not only stock trading from people from hedge funds and anything else. Also they work with penny stocks. If you understand how it works. If you can read the order books real. If you understand how you read the order books in the future markets. If you can read all this, the special situations which are not present now, but they are coming when the market is burning down. Yeah, I know everything and I know it will be very good for us.

And for this year too would mostly be order flow, right?

For reading this situation, order flow I like. But also I'm able to read this at first with with a real chart and with the volume. Volume and price is everything I need. But the order flow give me the moment when I only have chart and Volume, it's okay to earn a lot of money, but with the order flow I can feel the timing is much better for me. Also. Footprint charts are working very good to look locally. These. Where's the best place to go? Inside or outside? If you trade with limit orders or anything else.

When did you discover order flow? When did you started trading with footprint and volume? Was it. Was it just price action first?

Yeah, at first it was price action. Yeah. Only price action action. It was moving average inside. But they show me only the way. Is it very strong up or is it very strong down? Is everything. And I put moving average from bigger time frame into a smaller time frame to look how it works. You know, it's basics.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It real basics. Yes. And the start with order flow and footprint. It was a start with search together because he got a lot of knowledge about it. And he worked for I think one year in US and worked there and a trading floor together with a lot of people. And he explained me a lot of these things. And then I go by my by myself and do the same trip like every time. I will understand everything. I do it and I prepared for myself. Yes. I think I understand a lot of this things. But a lot of people like order flow have lot of ideas. They have 50 setups. I only take four or five. This is enough for me. I can read everything with speed with the simple things. It's enough for me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think one of the coolest one I've learned from you is the idea of speed, of order flow speed.

Yes.

When there's a breakout.

Yes.

If there's interest or no interest. Yes. You're basically following, following the money.

Totally easy. It's totally easy. But you must know where. You must watch for speed. And if you look anywhere for speed, you go inside and speed goes down. You must know where speed a place to looking for a nice breakout. And this is not possible to localize it only with easy candlestick chart. You must look a little bit deeper. That's my experience. For other people it's possible, but for me it's not fair.

And at some point you started teaching trading to Patrick as well. Now we have all the cups here that, that you guys that he traded. But also, you know, with the help of the team, he opened some trade ideas and you guys managed to do great performance in the, in the, in the Robins cup. How did you meet with Patrick and how did. How did it happen and what was kind of the process? Because you're not just A good trader, you're a great mentor for a lot of people. And Patrick is maybe the best, the.

Most public example of it.

So how do you meet a person like Patrick as a. As a new trader and take him to be a successful trader?

I meet him the first time, I think 2008, 2009, when we was in Switzerland. And he would like to give money into the investment of this hedge fund. Yes, he lose a little bit money there, but not on my side was side of the traders from the stocks and anything. And if he trusted me, because he understand what I explained him was very interesting for him. And that was the start where we have contact together and we talk about sometimes a little bit about trading. He got a big company with, I don't know the German, the English word.

Brook Miner, Brooks Binder. Binder. Yes and yes. We called sometimes, we had some meetings together. And all the time he was a little bit trading and asked me what can I do. And I give him a little bit examples. He can study and he trade a little bit, but most time he must work. In 2017, he decided he will come into my office and he will sit together with me. And he decided to go this job full time. He will be a trader. He will stop working like this job because it's very hard, this job. And he decide how is it able to show people outside of my world? We come from Swabian. Swabian land. Swabian land.

Southern Germany.

Yeah. Yeah. The people are very, very strong with money.

Yeah, they're conservative, right?

Yeah, very conservative. You think, okay, I will open an account by the World cup championships of trading and I will show my family that it works. One year later, as a family say, okay, but okay, I don't know, it's a game, it's gambling or anything else. And one year later he does the same. He show it to his family and say, here it works. And it was not for marketing or anything else. It was for him and to show friends and people in this Arabian land.

I do a real job. And yes, all the time he do it. It was for him a couple competition to do it because people from outside look now what he do and how are his standings. And he do it good. And he found a good way to trade. And I teach him a lot of things that he have a good start for himself, how he is, how he is able to work with it, what are his times to work and anything. And we sit often together and talk about trading ideas and I give him examples. He traded and it was Missed. And I see, okay, this is not good. This way of training is not a good way for him. And so we decided together what is his way and goes very fast that he understand a lot of because he do it six, seven, eight years before. He was not a no brainer like he sometimes talk and he was able very fast to build his own strategy by himself. We look together and we created a very good strategy for him. And it's not stressful for him to do it and he must not learn a lot of things like autoflow, scalping and anything. This is not his way of trading. His way is very easy and he do only this thing and he's happy with it. And this is perfect because you don't must you know too much. If you know too much, you find all the time reasons. Don't trade to don't to do it. I have time in the past, I sit a half year behind my monitor so much information and don't know what to do. Yeah, oh, oh no, oh, oh no, you will be crazy. And he was very good to decide by himself what is good working for him.

So his power was to keep it simple basically.

Yeah, yeah, he keep it very simple for himself.

How did you make it simple for yourself? Because you learn a lot of stuff and a lot of people in Internet learn so much stuff. How do you select and choose what's good for yourself?

Yes, for myself. The goal getter or the biggest, what is it? My biggest presence for myself was to understand everything. And it's impossible to understand everything. But I understand every strategy like swing trading, breakout trading, counter trading, order flow, scalping, everything. And I think by myself what is the way you like? And I think, okay, do only this one. But I was boring, very fast boring with it. Okay, and then I decide, okay, put this together, this together and I make a puzzle. And I put with this puzzle a lot of strategies together. I can trade. For example, yesterday we sit together and I start a little bit with scalping trades. Yeah, I can scalping trades preparing. But all the time when I prepare scalping trades, I will do swing trades with it. I go very deep and small in the market and wait and go bigger and bigger and bigger. But if it doesn't work, it's okay for me. I earn a little bit money or I lose a little bit money after it. I prepared other trading styles. For example, if the volatility index go over 20, I have other strategies. For me I have a lot of things in my, in my box I take from me. But the Problem is mostly of the things I do with my subconscious. I don't think about. I know what is to do when I look to the markets mostly and I think it's not possible to explain other people why I take so many shots. Yeah, I trade only one asset, for example, and look here and look here and look here and look here. But I combinate so many things that I feel free with it. I have no stress. I have stress if I have only one order flowchart and nothing other information that give me context and also give me trust that what I see is the perfect thing. I see I must understand everything and I think to learn it as possible with me and with the other people from my team. So good because they are so different and I understand all the differences. I understand all the psychologies from the trader avatars and I have a lot of instruments in my box, but I don't need everything. I don't pick up these things I prefer to do and I change it. Sometimes I do this, sometimes I do this, sometimes I do this. But I never do trend trading trend furthering all the time. This is too boring for me. It's not my way of trading. My way is all the time. I need challenges. I must have little fights with myself then. I love trading. I need it and I love it.

We talked about your biggest losses in trading with Lemon Brothers and But what were your. Did you have any really good trades? Any really good day that is worth mentioning?

Yes. For example, there was a time with GameStop and anything you remember, the gamma squeeze. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If something happened like this, I love it. It I start shorting, I go along and I have a lot of very big trades in this time. For example, especially with GameStop. GameStop stock. No, no, no.

Stock of GameStop.

Yeah, yeah. Only with stocks. Only with stocks. Yeah. But a lot of size inside. And I learned in the past when I was together with the hedge fund people, I learned reading the books like a professional in the stocks. And if you can read it, you can see the volatility is present but the big money is out. And if you can read it, you must know, you must wait for this point. And when this point is coming you can go and put a lot of size inside and it falls like a stone. And if something comes like the Reddit boys prepared with amc I think was. Yeah, yeah, amg. I don't know the names. I only, only see it. For me it's not interesting. What is the name of it? For me it's interesting that it Works what happened? Yeah, and that was a very big trades also. I have one morning, I wake up, had a lot of trades and crude oil Putin talk a story. I think it's six, seven years behind. Five, six, seven years. I don't know. I wake up in the morning, look at my phone and say what it was down 9% in the future. And you know it's not a joke if you wake up, you have a lot of contracts inside and it's not my way was the wrong way. And I go into the office, I was not so good. I was not so amused. But a big difference because of loses in the past in 2008. 9 I have built was I have nothing done that this happened. It was not my real fault that this happened. It was over. I don't know the word for it.

Was away from your control.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was not, not a risky trade or anything else. It was and it happens. But I lose a lot of money and I get on my desk, the volatility was brutal and I start trading in crude oil and I don't like trading in crude oil. But the volatility was so high. And I have a remember function in my brain and it was like Gamestop or anything else. And I read the book. I read, read. And then it was 4pm I started in the morning at 7. I go in the office, I look and go in the office and my friend come in my office and say hey, what happened with you? You must eat, you must drink. You're all the day here inside. And we hear nothing. I'm happy that you are still alive, but what have you done? I will look at my desk and I earn more money than I lose in the night with this 9% loss. And I have no big sizes or anything inside. I do I think 200 trades in this time and little way swing trades. I build it bigger, slower. I go long short all the time and I earn more money than I lose with this big awful trade.

So this was like a good way of revenge trading.

Yeah, but I don't want to do it. I never look about the P and L. I only look at position in position. It was like a big, big flow deep in a flow I was doing. And I think that was the best trading day in my life.

Yeah, I see the beat.

I see you. It's true.

It's still, still remembering.

Yeah, yeah.

I see the most successful traders are not very mechanical necessarily. Like they. They have some level of instinct. We can, we can call it instinct. How do you call It. How do you, how do you define it and how do you learn it?

It's experience. Instinct is experience.

For me it's not just experience. I would say it's also good experience, like mindful experience.

Yeah. Because you can, you stressed you can.

Spend years in the market and just lose money.

You trust in your feeling because if you have done it a lot of time and you have. If you have seen it in a lot of decades, you trust in it and you do it. You do it, but you don't do it. You must not do anything. You do it. You don't. Must think about it works for you. If for example, like today, the mark goes down, normally it will go very hard down, but it doesn't go down. And I see it and I feel it and I think, okay, it doesn't break down. Yesterday I talked to you, I think the market will go very strong short. And I see it doesn't go. And I feel it doesn't go and I don't do it. If you do it technical, if you do it like a robot, you will be short and you will lose money. This is for me not easy to explain.

Yeah.

But I think the best traders have this feeling.

Yes.

And trust in this feeling. And you can only trust in it if you do it a lot of time. And best thing is you monitor it all the time. If you make trades and you have badly feeling. Monitor it.

Like journal it?

Yeah. Human journal. Yeah, I mean, I mean a journal. I write it on a paper. Sometimes I make webinars. If I have days like this, I do a webinar and tell it. Everybody that they see what was my idea, why doesn't it works and what I have done. Search all the time, tell story. He come into the office and. And everybody is in the office. I come inside and see the mic and say, okay, let's go short, for example, index. And two minutes later the mic goes up and say yeah, yeah, yeah. And see, you say short. But you was long. Yes, yes, it changed.

I. I buy it.

Yeah, I buy it. And he said, you are crazy. But he see it so often that I change. So speedfall when the Mac doesn't do what he normally do and I'm able.

To change the idea very quickly.

I can change it. Yeah.

Nice.

Yes, it's the way. Let us talk a little bit about other story. It's very, very important for traders. For me, this is also a story from my life. It's very, it's very important. A lot of people like this one. What you Say now is trust in your mind. Trust in you. Everything. But how is it able that you can trust in you if you don't know who you are? And I think most people don't know who they are. I start in the beginning of the talk with you. This is the first thing that people must do. And I have the dream that people before they start trading that they look a little bit deeper. Who they are. What they want. What is my dream? What is my vision. What is my way and to get a feeling. Is it true what I talk or will I only do it to become fast rich? If you will become fast rich it is possible. But is it? You know it. I think a lot of people become very fast rich. But what happens after it? They lose all their money. Yes. And I think for me as personality. Personal development.

Personal growth.

Yeah. The personal development is a way in trading. Because you have so many emotions inside. You feel the money all the day. You lose money. You win money. You feel very good. You feel very sick. Everything is working. But you must stop these emotions. And this is only able if you look who you are. That's my way to teach. And I see a lot of people they staying longer on the markets and test trading. They will learn trading and learn so much technical stuff. Setups race for context. A lot of stuff. But now I give them them away. How is it able to look who you are? Very fast and quick and simple. And now they understand so many. And a lot of them become profitable. They trade 56 years or they want to trade. They learn to trade and never get a nice performance all the time. 000. And now they understand it. They do it and they become very fast. Good results. And I think it's the best way for everybody to do this step before. And you only need 1234 days to work with you together. To work with a good good coach together who is able to understand what he must to talk to you. What he must ask you. And also you can combinate it like a workshop. You can do the technical side and the side of your subconscious and anything else. Where are the problems inside you combinate it and you will become a very good trader. You trust in it. And mostly people are very red. They will only earn money very fast. Very.

That's what they want.

Yes. And doesn't works. I see it.

And what's a good way you think to study yourself before you start trading?

Here for example. I have a way. This is an easy test. It's not a normal personality test. It's an awareness test. You see one side, who you are on the other side. You can see what happens in the back of your mind, what happens with your subconscious. And you understand the problems totally fast. Needs half an hour to prepare it. And after it you become a nice letter. And everything is inside. And this is personality, not only for trading. And the people who read it, read it and say, okay, yes, that's me and why I never think before about. And then I prepared it together with trading avatars. For example, Skypa, Swing Trader, Breakout Trader, Counter Trader, total different personality characters, total different. But most people don't know it. They think you can copy everything, forget it. And now you can take this personality test, this awareness analysis together with the avatar. And you become you got a result. And the result talk to you start trading with this setups with this context, technical instruments and report it by yourself that you do it. Because a lot of people also have the problem with the reporting with discipline. And we can find very fast way to make a very good plan for you, what is interesting for you. But it is important to know the other ways of trading. Because you must see, okay, this one is coming now, like I explained now. And if you don't know what is coming, you are not able to react on it. You must understand the whole technical stuff, how does it work? And you must pick up from this stuff only the things who are working for you. And then you must go the boring way at first only to do it. And if you earn money with it, you will understand. It's a good way, but it's boring. Trading is boring after a time. For some people it's a game all the time, okay, but most people after one year, one and a half years, they earn money with it. It's boring. They will learn more and more and more and it's cool, but you take another account and look, is it cool what I think what I put together or talk with somebody who understand what is good working for you and for your mind. You can put inside this is a real way. And I will give this way in the world. Because I think this is a perfect way of trading. Make at first a quick watch about your awareness, who you are, which structured our structures of trading material is working for me. And then what should I do every day that I'm disciplinated, focused on it and have fun with my work. If you do these three things, you will be happy. I think it's also interesting for the people outside why I do it, why I decide now to go outside to show My face to explain people why I will teach other people how is the way of trading. Why I decide to put all my informations I created in all my years together and give it outside. I take this decision two years before and I do a lot of personality development for myself. I do it all the time. I like it. I start over than 20 years before because I got other problems with family and anything else. And I decided to to do it because I decide me for the people and not for me. The time before I do a lot of things to have a good feeling. If I help other people, it's good for me. I feel good. I feel a little bit big. But now I understand I'm big enough for me and I don't need from other people the feeling you are very good. And also I decide this job trading trader. This is a job and in Germany especially in other lands countries also the job as a trader is not a real job. And I hope the world will see this is a famous job. It's a beautiful job. You can earn money wherever you are. You must discipline it. You need a computer, not. Not a laptop. And on the beach like here. We live in Cyprus now with a family. I go outside from the land with the pressure for me. And I will stay together with young people. It's good for me to be together with young people. But young people don't got the experience. But they are powerful and I can learn a lot of them of this young powerful people. For example social media. I have no ideas about it. You have a lot of ideas for me it's interesting, but I don't want to learn too much of it, but a little bit. And these are always for me interesting. But the biggest point is that I decided for myself, for myself that I'm total okay who I am. And I will spend the world or the world of trading, the traders world. A lot of good stuff for a price level where everybody is able to pay it. And to take all this exercises inside of this trading stuff. It's very good, I know it and I hope the people see this is a very good stuff and it can work for me. Me you not give other people guilty that you are not able to trade. I if somebody say hey, you have given me a strategy and I lose money, I'm not guilty. He is it for himself. But I can explain him why. And in the times before I can't do it because I feel a little bit like somebody hit me or anything else. If you talk to me, you're guilty that I Lose money if you do it now, I say, okay, this is a problem for you, but I can help you to find the reason why you are not able to be profitable. And if he will go more and more aggressive, I can say, okay, this is your aggression, then you must go. And I'm fine with you. But this is my experience of my age. I think that I'm now here who I am.

Yeah. That's why I think there's a lot of new people who come into trading and look for signals and look for, you know, copying your trade. What do you think about that? Have you ever like consider it or.

I tested a signal trading to give other people, but I see it doesn't work. If you give other people the opportunity to decide for you, you don't do a real job. You're all the time in connection with other people. You need the connection to earn money. Is it able? No. The connection is present. Yes. And the guilty is on the other side. And you never look for you. I don't like it.

But at that point you can invest in a hedge fund and they can.

Trade your money better. Yes, yes. And they also have drawdowns, but it's no problem.

Yeah.

Because they are guilty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the reason. If you lose money by yourself, it's hard. If you lose money, other people have done it. It's hard, but not so brutal like you do it by yourself or most people are looking who is guilty for my damages, for everything I do, what is not working. And if you understand and decide 100% you are guilty for everything what you do, it's perfect.

Yeah. I think that's the only way in trading. Like whether you take responsibility for your actions and for your trade. Like every trade, you are the one opening every trade.

Yeah.

If you're a mistake, it's your mistake. If you don't learn this, you're never going to become a successful trader for sure.

No, forget it. This is the biggest thing.

And talking about hedge funds and management. Do you have any experience in managing money? And if. Yes, how is it? How does it work?

Oh, if you manage money, it's not so easy because you have pressure from outside and you feel it. If you are not like a stone and the people will call you and ask you what happened. Not even trader must call with somebody. But if you make not a good business or you feel not good, I have done it often in the past. I'm going and have a way for myself. Sometimes I need it. I don't know how long it may be, it can be two days, it can be two years, for example. But if you work for other people with the money or for other people, yes, you have not your own risk, but you have the pressure from everybody who want results of your side. And you must decide it for yourself. Do you like it? You can go. You have a good feeling with this pressure. A lot of people don't have a feeling with it. We put for example algorithm inside to do it, but they don't work very good. And I think about, okay, what do I know? Will I do it by myself? And I decide, yes, I will do it. But at first I must clean my. I must clean my connection to other people that I don't feel guilty if they lose a little bit money or if they earn a lot of money. I don't want to talk with them about it. Yeah, I do it for me and I think this is for me the biggest point. Work with other people's money.

Yeah, if you manage money.

Yeah, if you manage money, it's a total other way.

If there is one technical setup that you can share with traders today, it's, let's say something they can start working to learn volume, for example, what would it be?

It will be a very easy way of volume profile, for example, that you can decide where's the mark fair and where is it unfair. It's very easy, but it's very interesting because when the mark is in unfair price radiance levels areas you can look for fast trades or for counter trades. And if the price is in value, you can make all the time scalp topic. It's easy and I think it's important that you have the knowledge about how the market works, that supply and demand is very important for you to understand where it is and in an unfair price level or in a fair price. So first thing, understand a little bit the context and look which setup is working for me in this context combination. I will never say this setup is good. This setup is good for a concentrator on an interesting location.

And if, let's say young traders, when they start, how long do you think before they can really build the experience and really build the inner feeling and intuition?

I think at first it's very important that they are not alone, that they are able to talk with people with more experience. It's the first thing, the important thing, the next thing to learn the technical stuff. It goes very fast. It's not like a rocket science or anything else. You can learn the stuff your normal, intelligent and for you have fun with it. I think in two or three months, then you understand the stuff, but no experience. And then you must start and create your first traits. And you start the first time feelings like fear. And this is another place, another paper who it stands. A lot of people talk to me. I will start with simulation trading. I say, okay, you understand your strategy and anything else? Yes, yes, I understand everything. And they stop simulation trading. Start with real money very slowly, because you must know if you do it with a good mindset, it's not interesting for you. Is it $1 or is this $100 or is it $1,000? You must feel free if you have a trade and I know it by myself, If I have €1 in the market, I have focus because it's real money and I have a connection to it. Because I understand this money is workable for my life. I'm hungry, I need money. Yes. And you must feel the connection. And if you have a good connection, a connection like I don't know that you feel free, how much it is. It's not not the deal. Then you have never problems to trade with big money, with small money, with little money. Also you can take prop trading account, but you have other things you must learn, like laws and anything. If you are trade goods, you will get your outcome from this company. I have no experience with it. A lot of traders don't get their money from them.

Yeah.

And now they learn a lot of more. They must do that they got their money. I think a little account by yourself is the best way to start trading with real contracts. Today we have have micro contracts, mini contracts. It's good the market give us everything that we are able to go and do the job for myself, for themselves.

And what is your best tip for dealing with all the emotions that start especially in the first few years of trading? And especially traders who have been, you know, learning some strategy, trying and failing because of emotional traits, or who even continue for years and years of burning accounts, Burning money. Burning money.

Burning money. The first thing is hit them, slap them. Yes, Because I have done the same sometimes. Yes. And if somebody had hit me, I think, I think a little bit more because I feel it's not nice. And I think a lot of people can't feel it. And if you feel what you do is not nice, you spend your time, you spend your money, you spend your life for trading. I don't know what is the name for it. It's not a name for it. If you are a gambler, stop it and think about why you do it because then it's not a real way to trade and if you lose one account one account more one account more or also these challenges if you lose it because there is a trailing stop and it is hidden then your risk management was not good or your strategy was not good for this way to trade I think you can earn money with every prop trading company company if you take the right strategy who is working for you or you must decide this prop trading company give me trailing stops it's unrealistic to trade with it for me with my art of trading be true what is able for you and have a good vision and a good plan to prepare that you never got a Drawdown higher than 15 to 20% this is very important because of the money and the risk management if you have drawdowns more than 20% it's not real trading what you do thank.

You Tom for all the tips and all the the stories it was nice.

To have you on the channel thank you very much. Thanks.