Overcoming Trauma with Dr. Karol Darsa

What is trauma and how can you overcome it? In today's episode, I am speaking with Dr. Carol Darca, who is a licensed psychologist who specializes in the treatment of trauma. And we have an amazing conversation that I'm so excited for you to hear. Trauma is not a word that I like to throw around lightly, but it actually is something that I believe we need to understand if we have experienced it or not. There is a difference in trauma and stress, and we explain exactly what that is. Dr. Darca dives into that. In the conversation that we have today, there are so many amazing takeaways that I believe that every single person can take from our conversation. So without any further ado, here is my conversation about how to overcome trauma in your life with Dr. Carol Darca. Hey, my name is Kimberly Beam Holmes, and this is. It starts with Attraction, where we discuss how to become the most attractive that you can be physically, intellectually emotionally and spiritually. Or as us insiders call it, the pies. You can become more attractive to others and most importantly, to yourself. We will teach you how. Let's dive in.

Well, I am here today with Dr. Carol Darca. Thank you so much for joining me, Dr. Darca.

Thank you, Kimberly, for inviting me.

Oh, my goodness.

I.

So this subject we're gonna be talking about trauma, and honestly, it's, it's one that I feel like for so long growing up and all those things, trauma was something that happened in just on a big, like a big scale, like 9, 11 for the people who were in New York City. Right. Like that was a traumatic event. But I've been hearing more and more talk about how trauma can, can happen even in smaller circumstances or things that people may not even realize as trauma. So tell them, let's start out, what is trauma?

Good question, and I'm glad you're asking it that way because so many people think trauma means only when it's a war or maybe a sexual abuse or natural disasters, which are of course traumatic. Trauma is anything that can really overwhelm a person and threaten their well being. So, yes, like I said, the big ones are the ones that you mentioned, but then there are the ones that people don't know about, such as medical trauma. So growing up with a parent who has medical trauma, or having your own medical trauma, having relational issues with your first caretaker, so your parents. So if they are, for instance, of course not the physical abuse, which again, people know that that can be trauma. But there's something that's called relational trauma where if a parent is physically present but not emotionally present. That could be traumatic for a child if they have a certain diagnosis on a mental health like addiction or borderline personality or narcissistic personality. Growing up with such parents can be very traumatic as well. There's racial trauma, of course, which is very much mentioned lately. So people know that it's traumatic and incidental. Just car accidents. Witnessing violence, Witnessing can also be trauma. Some people consider that secondary trauma because it doesn't happen to you. But if you're a child and you, you witness your parents in a violent situation, that can be highly traumatic as well.

So what's going on in our brain that. That leads it to be trauma?

You know, it's actually interesting because two, two soldiers can be in the same war and one of them can develop a ptsd, which is post traumatic stress disorder, and the other one may not. Not every time you are traumatized, that means you're going to end up having post traumatic stress disorder. So let's first, you know, even clarify that. So what is the difference of why two people in the same war are not developing the same symptoms in front of the same situation? Right. There are a lot of factors, unfortunately. There's definitely the factor of our childhood. So if you're a soldier, but your childhood was also very shaky and you come from a violent family and now you're facing violence as an adult, you are going to be much more impacted than your colleagues who are not traumatized as kids. So that really affects you in terms of sort of like a baseline. Right. That, that it's a foundation. That's one thing. Then there's definitely the, the, the birth temperament, how you are. And that's nothing because it doesn't mean you are weak or you are strong, but you might have a different temperament. And you can see this in the families even growing up with the same parents. One can be traumatized by the way that the parents treated them. Them and the other one may not. So there is a way that a person's capacity is from birth, but I think environmental factors are often bigger than your birth temper. Hmm.

So those environmental factors would be the things like having a stronger upbringing with, with two present parents that are attentive to you. What are, what are some of those other protective environmental factors?

Cultural, country, economic, education. So if you had great, you had great parents, but you were bullied at school on an ongoing basis, that would be very traumatic. And that could really affect. Yeah. A child. Yeah. The cultural influences. Or if you grew up from. In a very poor family and you have maybe medical Issues or daily stress of not being able to pay the bills and all of that. And if you're not from a culture that really supports children's well being, but it's much more about hitting the child. And that's sort of the norm as a, as a form of a discipline. Those could be impacting the child in a very negative way. And it, it's like it breaks their capacity to deal with stress. The more stress you have in your life, especially growing up, the less capacity you have as an adult because you're overwhelmed. Your system is like you're up to here, right? You're, you're full. And so it's important to just really recognize all of these different symptoms and, and variations in understanding the person.

How would you define trauma?

I would say, I think the. An incident that really leaves the person feeling overwhelmed and powerless. That would be a simple way to describe it. And you have to be able to differentiate that from stress. Often, for instance, divorce is extremely stressful, by the way, but it's not always traumatic. So I say that because what I'm noticing is for years people didn't know what trauma is. And now I'm kind of seeing a little bit of the opposite where everything is considered traumatic. Look, I was at home. That's traumatic. That's not traumatic that you had to stay at home, you know, so it's very stressful. But that unless you are afraid of being facing death and you're in the hospital, like with, with COVID right now, a lot of people who went in and out of hospitals because of COVID were afraid of dying. Yeah, Covid affects your breathing. Breathing is a sign of, of breath is a sign of life. And so they are really facing the fear of dying. And so yes, that I would definitely say that would be very traumatic. But staying at home, home restrictions and we can't go out and that probably is more stressful than, than trauma.

I love, so I love that point and I'm glad that you made it. Stress is different from trauma. Trauma is different from stress. So, so let's, let's talk about 2020 last year.

Yes.

There. So it was stressful. It has been stressful for people. Do you think that the stress could cause people to mentally become traumatized? Here, let me, let me explain that question even further. So last year there was also kind of this message out of like a fear of being around other people. Right. So don't get too close, stay away. Could that cause a traumatic experience for someone when they, when we get back, to quote Unquote. Life is normal. We're back around people. But if that fear is still there of I don't want to get too close, what if I get sick, all this stuff, could that end up being some kind of like PTSD from the stress of 2020?

It could. It's. It's going to depend on the person. Not everyone's going to develop that kind. It's almost like you're talking about hyper vigilance. And hyper vigilance is one of the symptoms of someone who has PTSD because of something bad happening to you. Now you are afraid, and you're severely avoiding that. That incident. So let's say if you were abused walking on a certain street, the moment you even hear the name of the street, you will be highly triggered and really do everything to avoid to. To go to that road. Right. So, yes, it could develop into this extreme fear, sort of bordering on the traumatic symptom of anyone near me means I'm going to get sick. But again, remember, the reason why people are so afraid of the sickness in Covid is because it's so often related to death.

Yeah.

Not just like, hey, I was sick. Okay. Like, it's like the word cancer. You hear cancer and you right away thinking of death and covet became that way, even though so many people, thank God, of course, recovered and are not. Absolutely, are not dead. But that is our biggest fear right now.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. The. So going back to that definition you gave of trauma is when someone feels powerless. But there's that other part of it, which is it's not just feeling powerless. It's feeling powerless about heading toward a negative outcome.

Yes. And a sense of overwhelm. I'm overwhelmed. I can't do it. I. It's like a sort of sense of giving up. I. I'm not able to do anything and I'm in danger. There's often that being in danger part to it as well. You know, I was thinking from what you just said about people being afraid of maybe being around other people even after Covet is done, I think what's important to remember here is covet trauma or covet stress might be also bringing up past issues. So if you have had any trauma that that's somewhat related to this. For instance, a lot of people who suffer from OCD are suffering much more right now because Covid is all about being clean and washing your hands and putting mask. And if your mask is going a little bit lower than your nose, people panicking. The virus. The virus and so OCD people are often very afraid of contacting a virus anyway, some sort of clean being overly clean. So yeah, now the same thing happens with home restrictions. Now if you don't have a history of being at home as a negative thing, you could be stressed that I hate being at home right now, but I'm not traumatized.

Right.

But I have clients that to them is a reminder of their punishment as children when couldn't go out because they were hit or they were forced or they were sexually abused and they were not allowed to leave a certain situation or certain room. So being at home, even though yes, your cognitive brain tells you, hey, this is for your well being because we don't want you to get sick. The trauma brain does not think logically. There's no rationale there. It's an automatic emotional reaction to oh, that reminds me of my childhood. So you have a person who's much more reactive to staying at home than your average person.

What are some of these symptoms of trauma? So either psychologically or physically, what are some things that go on in someone's body and mind when they're experiencing trauma?

One is hyper vigilance. Right. Being worried, constantly watching your back. Is anyone there? Nightmares about the incident or similar incidents. Flashbacks. Sometimes if it's a severe incident, it could be a flashback of just having visions, remembrances, depression. So mood. Right. Or anxiety. Highly anxious, but it could show up in different way. Difficulty to sleep or over sleeping. Drug use. So a lot of people who are actually using substances to numb themselves, drug or alcohol, are using it because they do not want to remember certain things in their lives. Incessant crying, panic attacks, overeating or undereating. It can go really into every area that you can imagine. Unfortunately, the bigger trauma and the more frequency a person, frequently a person had their trauma, the more symptoms they're going to have as, as adults or as currently how they are.

Let's talk more about the relational trauma. Okay, so right before we got started, you said this is one that most. I did. You say it's one of the most common. Is that what you said?

Yes. And the least known and the least. It's the most minimized or the most ignored. People don't because it's not a. There's not incident like they're not hit, they're not abused, they think it's okay. That's just that was my relationship with my parents or that's how they were or you know, my parents loved me anyway and they did their best. Sometimes people say things like this, without really realizing the impact of parents onto, onto the children.

Do you think that the parent child.

Relationship is the one that this comes.

Up in the most?

Yes, absolutely. Your first love is your parents. It becomes your role model as a child. How they treat you, how they treat each other. If your parents are married, how they treat themselves, all become huge role model. Examples of how you think you should be in life, I mean, especially the first zero to five years is really a foundation where you're building what's called attachment to your parents. So, yes, there's a physical need when you cry, you're fed, your diapers changed, you're put to sleep, right? But then there's the emotional part. And that's where a lot of the people do not realize how traumatic their experience could have been. So if when they cried, they were not attended to, then they learn a lot. They learn my emotions don't matter. Um, I'm not loved, I'm not worthy. I don't want to take someone's time. Those type of things could be all because they were not met emotionally.

And this is, this is where attachment.

Theory comes in, right? It could be that they're more preoccupied with that, that anxious style, right? Or they're more avoidant like what you're talking about. I don't, I don't matter. They retreat a little more.

So.

My. Both of my children are adopted. We brought them home two years ago. My daughter was four when we brought her home. My son was two. And so I'm sure that pre. Us, pre. Me and my husband. You know, I know that they, they didn't have a present mother. I know that they weren't held every time they needed to be, right? Like, I knew all of this stuff. And when we first brought them home, my daughter was very much on that preoccupied side of will please you. I will do the right thing so that you will love me. I will get your attention, right? Like all the. I'll do everything right. And then my son was the one who was like, I'm not even looking you in the face. I like, I don't trust you. I don't, I don't care. So I've seen what that looks like for kids and how as a parent, you have to gain that trust, right? You do it first through the, the physical needs, feeding them, touching them, bathing them. You slowly get the eye contact and, you know, now I can see just two years into it, night and day difference, right? They're, they're super attached. But then there's so there's one part of me that just thinks, how is that going to affect them? Just the fact that they didn't have a mother for two and four years. Right, right. And then there's the other part of me that's like. And then how is it that my parenting style is going to affect the going, going forward? So what are your best suggestions to the parents listening to this? Most people, I'm most of the people, most of my listeners are going to be parents, and they're probably thinking the same of me right now, which is like, what do I do? Like, how do I make sure that I do the best things possible for my children so that they will be best prepared for life?

Yeah. Well, first of all, welcome to motherhood.

Welcome to parenthood.

It comes automatically with guilt. If you think you're going to have guilt because your parent, your kids were adopted. Let me change your mind. No matter what situation you had your kids in, you're going to feel guilty about some things. Okay. I have not experienced a single mom or dad that hasn't expressed in some form of a guilt. If they're working, for working, if they're not working, for not working, if they're present, for being too present. I mean, it's just, it's. It's tough. It's really tough. I have two kids myself, so I, I understand you very well. Will they be impacted for the of their lives? Don't get discouraged. But the answer is yes. Can they heal a lot of it? Also? Yes. But can they heal fully? I don't think so. But that doesn't mean they can't have a healthy life. Sure, that will be a sensitive area for them. So they are lucky that you are present and that they are repairing some of it for sure. But it will show up in some ways. They will have some sort of a fear. So you should always stay very sensitive to that. Really, don't take it personally because truly you could be the best mom in the whole art world. But having the first two or four years of their lives where they had to go through a separation and maybe more, I don't know. And I don't, I don't mean to pry more, but if it happened, it will of course leave them with some sort of impact or, or feeling, but on an ongoing basis, you'll have to support them and assure them. And it may show up when they're adults in their intimate relationship, or it may not. It's hard to really know. It usually does leave some, some sensitivity in them.

I think that's that's, in a way, to be expected. Right.

So don't take it personally. It's better to expect that than having the fantasy. Because sometimes I worked a lot with adoptive parents. There's also the fantasy of if I just love them, they'll be completely fine. And I think that's an unrealistic expectation. And then you can develop some form of disappoint. It can create disappointment in both the child and. And the mom. That's why I said, you have to know eventually where to separate yourself from. Did I do my best. And the rest is not up to me, like, to be able to say that. And even as a parent who's. Who's not adoptive parent. And just with your. With my regular kids, because I can see. I have two, and I see how they're born differently. So I could treat the same. I could treat them the same, but one of them reacts to me differently than the other one. Where did. Did I do something wrong or. We have different. I have. I clash with one of them more than with the other one. Right. We're more similar, for instance, in our personality. So that does happen. And just knowing that we are human being and we are limited and we also have our own trauma. You might have your own trauma. So no matter how much you work on it, that could influence your parenting style. Sometimes I say things to my kids that my dad used to tell me, and I used to say, I'm never going to say this to my kids. And I find myself saying exactly the same thing. It's just been so ingrained. Mm. So what.

How would you recommend people navigate that? If they. If they. If there's a parent who has some kind of past trauma that they feel like is kind of hindering them from being able to be fully present with. With their child, what are the steps to overcome that?

Well, to be honest, my favorite thing is to go for a professional help. But if you're not in that situation, that's okay. You can work on it, on yourself. It will be important to first of all know what they are, to maybe start journaling about it. Journaling is an amazing therapeutic tool that I recommend for everyone. So start from 0 to 3 liter, literally writing out your life. But you have to be careful. This is the reason why I said I prefer professional help. When you're writing, if you're finding yourself getting emotionally overwhelmed, either you can pause and kind of find ways to calm yourself down and then come back to it, or if you think you can't come back to it, Yourself, then you can look for a professional help because you don't want to push yourself to the degree where you are now disoriented or disregulated the rest of the day because you're opening something, but really just sort of going, asking questions. How did I feel around my parents? So this isn't about blaming the parents, it's just about searching for the facts. Were they physically present? Were they emotionally present? What kind of messages did they give me? Did I learn emotions are okay, or did they, when I cried, did they tell me don't cry, right? Did I feel that I was safe around them? Did I feel I could go to them with anything? Did I feel loved? And just really sort of exploring that for a while, one by one and finding a way to make peace with what happened and maybe understanding where your shortcomings are coming from. Right. There's so many messages we learn from our parents directly and indirectly. When a parent is not present, like I said, one of the message is I'm not worth their time.

So I'm as you, as you're saying that I'm thinking about me. So I work from home, I work full time. Until, you know, six months ago, I used to go to an office and so I'm just thinking about like my daily life. Do my kids, I'm trying to see myself through my kids eyes. Do my kids feel like I'm present? And I don't know, I really have to think about that because I come up here, I say, mommy has to go to work, I go down for lunch. But like there's periods of the day, I clearly have to be away from them. So for the parents that are listening to this and thinking, oh gosh, how do I show my kids I'm present when I'm working or when, you know, there's all these other things happening. What's your, what is your encouragement to parents who are thinking that right now?

That's a good question because I'm not expecting parents to be 24 hours with their kids unless you have the luxury to do so. Very, very few people have that luxury, both financially and emotionally. It's not the quantity, it's really the quality. So if you are working, it's actually good to separate and say, okay, this is, this is my work hours and almost maybe giving a schedule to a child, writing up your kids? I don't know, they could, they don't read yet, but you know, as they understand time. So when you say okay, from this hour to that, our mom is working and I'll take a break. When you take the break, when you're around them, is the, is the. So when you're physically around them and attending to them, can you also be emotionally present? Right. So if you're playing, make sure that you're not focusing on, on your work while you're playing.

So.

Yeah, because honestly, I mean, I've spent hours, countless hours playing with my kids and, and they're boys. Like as a woman, after a while playing with cars could have. It's a bit boring.

Yeah, I hear you.

So, so then, you know, I'd find myself thinking of my work and of something else. And so then like I'm spiritually not there, I'm emotional. So then I really practice mindfulness a lot. Basically is. What I'm talking about is just when I'm playing, am I present? And I'm just really paying attention to the, to the relationship and also being present to the emotion. So in a play you might have a bit more flexibility to be a little bit not as present, but maybe when they are really needing you emotionally, can you be present and can you validate their feelings rather than shushing them? Yeah. Or rather than encouraging too early independence, can you be okay that they need you? Because I think in the western world there's a too much emphasis on they got to be independent, they gotta sleep alone, they gotta do this alone, like everything alone. And it's a very cultural thing. A lot of other cultures in the Eastern world do not believe that and promote that. So I tend to go sort of in between, you know. But yeah, when, when they are feeling something, how do you react to them? Is it okay for you to just really sit with that emotion if they're sad and just say, I'm here. The message is, I can hold your emotions, I can handle your emotions, and I can tolerate your upset or your sadness. Then the child feels secure. Then they go, okay, if my mom can tolerate my emotions, then I can tolerate mine too. And that prepares them, God forbid, for any future traumatic or stressful events that might, that might come.

So you're. It's part of this is that you're. The child is learning how to self regulate.

Exactly.

That makes total sense. But even as I hear you talking about it, I'm thinking, this isn't just, it doesn't just have to be the way we treat our kids. This could be that same way the way we react towards our spouse or our best friend or ourselves. Sister. Our. Oh, ourselves.

Yes.

Yeah, that's hard.

When you feel sad, what Is the first thing that you say to yourself.

Oh.

Well, see, trauma and emotional tolerance really go hand in hand because when we have a trauma, we have to deal with certain emotions. And if we don't build the capacity to deal with emotions, then we are going to get more overwhelmed about the trauma and then we can develop into more traumatic symptoms because then we're not really processing it. We need to process, digest. Right. Like when you eat food, like you chew it, taste it, and then swallow it, and then it goes through your digestive system. Stress and emotions are that way. Most people are very fast into avoiding distracting, putting away rather than really like facing it, accepting it, digesting it, and, and validating. So start with yourself. Validate when you have a feeling. Validate your spouse too. But I think self is a very good way to, to start this.

That is really good. I really like that. And that's even something you can journal about too, right. Like there's, there's a feeling coming up and it's, it's a constant feeling. So I don't. As you. When you asked me, what do you think when you feel sad? It took me a minute because I thought, I don't know that sad is a feeling I feel often. I think anxious is a feeling I feel often. I think jealous is a feeling I feel often. So with those, there's probably something there. Right. Like if that's the go to emotion.

Correct.

Then then how do I stop and say how do I like, let's look into this and you can ask, is.

There another feeling underneath the anxiety? And often, yeah. If some people are more comfortable with anxiety, some people are more comfortable with anger, other ones more comfortable with sadness. You see, everyone does have a sort of a go to feeling.

Yeah.

And so to be able to go deeper into it, you can do journaling and really just get in touch with that. Another thing you can add to your journaling is to really check in with your body. So when anxious, what do you notice in your body? Because people are asking, how do you feel? Well, I'm, I'm angry, I'm worried, I'm anxious and I don't know. Right. What's happening in your body as you notice your anxiety? Heart is beating faster. I have the tightness. Lies the tightness. And what happens when you stay with it rather than trying to find ways to get out? Because that's what people do. You think? So I can't tell you how frequently it. It may not really when you just.

Let it sit there.

Yes, exactly. Just recently I had A new client. And. And I said to her, just stay with it. And at first she opened wide her eyes with the fear of like, oh, it's gonna get worse. Within a minute of silence, just sitting, and. And I'm just present with her, right? Complete eye contact, waiting. And then she said, oh, my God, it's dissipating. Wait, it's. It's kind of changing. It is. And I said, but just leave the feeling away. Just notice the physical sensation. So you're not focusing on the anxiety. You're focusing on the physical sensation, in fact, separated from the story. Because stories that we make in our minds is what creates and increase the anxiety, and the body reacts to it. So you're anxious about something, put the story aside, put the feeling aside, track your body for about a minute, and then what happens? So sometimes for a little bit, it gets worse. You're right. But then it starts usually decreasing, dissipating, or changing it changing into something else.

I think it. I think it gets worse for me because I don't separate. I don't separate the feeling from the physical sensation. So that's a. I really like that point. If I were to separate it, I'm sure. I'm sure it would get better. Because you're right. You're 100, right? The story that we tell ourselves can make things worse or better, right?

Well, you know how much time we spend in our heads, think about it throughout the day, and too much. Right. Thoughts we have throughout the whole day and how frequently you check in with your body. Pretty much no one does that. Right. So the, the more we think, the more we could actually increase our anxiety and our stress. So you could practice just really putting aside the story. Even for half hour people, at first, they're like, holy, what am I gonna do now? There's sort of this illusion of like, we have to think. And if. If I analyze and if I go over and over again, I can maybe like, master it and I'll fix it. I'll fix it. That's what I mean. That's the illusion. That's the illusion that you have.

You're right.

And you see the resistance. Because when I practice this with clients, I go, just let go. They're like, oh, but I'm wasting my time. Like, they think they're paying me for nothing, you know? But when you get into that practice of really slowing the thoughts down, you actually. This is even related to trauma because trauma creates that chronic stress. Chronic trauma eventually creates a state in us that keeps us in our head. And not in our body keeps us in our head and not in our feelings. And that's where you can make a change by doing the opposite. At first, it's counterintuitive because most people think they're gonna feel worse. But if you practice it in a gentle way, you actually could tolerate it better.

Hmm.

What would you say to someone who.

They'Re thinking, I went through something as a kid or a teenager or an event, but I just don't think it was big enough to be trauma. I just don't think it would.

Like, I would feel silly.

I would feel silly going to a therapist and saying, this is what happened. Is it trauma? What would you say?

I. I get that all the time. In fact, especially because I'm specialized in sexual abuse. Most of my clients have that history. Then when I have those clients who don't have sexual abuse, they're almost embarrassed to come to me. I've heard even people saying, I'm taking your time. I'm sorry. You can help more other people. But when you go through something, especially if you're younger, you don't have the capacity to think, you know what? Mine is not that bad because other people in the meantime are being sexually abused or physically abused. Mine is not that bad. You don't compare yourself to someone else while you're going through it. This is still your experience. And to me, every experience is very valid. So in other words, do not compare yourself to anyone else. Because it's kind of like when we were kids, my parents would say, if I didn't eat my meal. Right. Everyone knows that, oh, there are kids hungry in Africa. Okay. So if you think if I eat, that's gonna help them.

Yeah.

Get rid of the hunger in Africa.

I don't. Right.

Well, the same thing goes for the mental health. Just because mine isn't that big or. Or bigger or smaller doesn't change anything for the other person. So every experience is valid. And in fact, that's really my first step when I work with clients. Is the education, psycho education, as we call it, to understand how trauma affects you, what it does to you, and. And how valid it is for you. If it's. If it was painful, I don't care the severity of it. It was painful for you.

And is it. Is it made worse over time? If it's not addressed?

Yes, it could definitely get worse. The more. The older you get, the worse it will be if you don't address it. The younger you are, the. The sooner you should address it. I mean, you can always Address this. There's no such a thing as too late. But yes, because other stressors come in. It's like a glass, right. Then you're filling up with other things. Then you have really no capacity now to deal with anything.

So what could it look like on the other side? When, when someone is willing to work through their trauma, what does that healing look like on the other side?

Usually an increase of mood, an improvement of the mood. That's usually my first thing. In fact, every week when I see clients week after week, that's my first question. How was your mood this week? How is your sleep? How is your emotional reactions to things? And how is your language different to yourself? Because one of the things that trauma causes is self hatred or self disconnect. The way that the person talks to themselves about themselves is, tells me a lot about what kind of history they had. So then I ask about that, like what kind of things you said to yourself this week. And as that self judgment decreases, I'm seeing this as an improvement of the, of the trauma and any other symptom that they came with. Because I want to know from the very beginning, what is your goal in therapy? Right. What are you trying to achieve? And so then I check in with that goal. Yeah.

And is talk therapy the best way to do this or are there other ways as well? I know you mentioned journaling, but are there any other tools that people can put in their tool bag for this?

Actually talk, if you're talking about therapy versus soft tool is different. But if you're talking about therapy, talk therapy is not the best. No, that at this point is more old fashioned, but it's a great supportive therapy. Okay. If you're doing trauma work, there are few techniques that are, in my opinion in, in my 23 years of clinical opinion, are the best.

Okay.

If you want, I can tell you what they are.

Please.

Sure. One of them is called emdr. Eye Movement desensitization and Reprocessing. It's a technique and you can only do this with a therapist. I mean, there's books, that's where you can do to yourself, but you have to be already very strong to do it. I would recommend you try at least some sessions with a therapist. There's brain spotting, which is very similar to emdr, but instead of eye movements, they find eye spots. And there are therapists training that. Then there are a couple of different somatic therapies. So that's when you get much more into the body. And what I was asking you to track your body that's where it's coming from. It's either called Somatic Experiencing by Peter Levine or Sensory Motor Psychotherapy, which is founded by Pat Ogden. So those are great for like trauma processing, very contained, very helpful methods. And then, but for, for all of these, I don't think you should ever let go of the mindfulness because mindfulness teaches you to be present in the moment. So let me put it this way. Trauma hijacks your brain and it's a hijack into the past. So you're either inundated with the past, memories, feelings and fears, or it hijacks you into the future, where you're not constantly worried about what's going to happen, anything but the present. So when you do something that encourages you to be in the present and in your body, also yoga, for instance, Yoga, Tai chi, things that like grounded experience, grounding experiences and mindful experiences, you have much more of a chance to heal your trauma than, than talk therapy. So if you can't go to therapist, you can't afford it on your own. Get in touch with some mindfulness classes, read about it, especially Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction. So it's not just the meditation. I'm not talking about, actually, meditation is not for everyone, by the way, so I usually don't recommend it for that reason. But mindfulness practice, you can do it without necessarily meditating. It's about really knowing how to stay in the present moment. You can take classes and they shouldn't cost that much or read the book and. But you have to practice regularly. You can't just practice when you're upset. You know, it's, this isn't like only when you're sick, you go to doctor. This is something you do regularly and daily. Or Eckhart Tolle, the Power of Now. There's a lot of sort of similarity about the importance of just being in the present. If you can practice those along with yoga and, and journaling, you can at least regulate your emotions. Even if you can't delve into the past memories, regulating your emotions could give you, you know, what do I, what am I trying to say? Can give you more of a sort of advanced position than someone who hasn't done anything about it. Because trauma work, it's not just about that. You have to talk about what happened to you. It's about dealing with the symptoms.

And, and fixing those faulty messages.

Right?

Fixing that. The source of it.

Yeah, but don't think only messages, because when you say messages, that means you're only thinking in your brain. Then it Just conscious process. It's. It's part of it, but it should not be the whole thing. And that's where people fail. Because when they can't change the messages, they think of themselves as weak. But it's something else that's bigger than you in that moment that takes over. So that's why it's not just the power of the mind. I'm actually glad you said that because so many people come to me and say I must be weak. I can't just step out of it. Why? And everyone tells me this and that. It doesn't work like that. With trauma, you have to include the body. You have to do things that calm the nervous system down. Your brain is not going to function if your nervous system is activated. It just does not have that capacity. So forcing it, it actually could be almost like re. Traumatizing yourself because you're pushing, you're being forceful, you know, instead of being gentle, you have to be very gentle about it.

And this just perpetuate.

Yeah, that would perpetuate the cycle, of course.

Because if you're abused, let's say you have parents who are telling you what a horrible person you are, or they were abusing you and then you grow up and now you do the same thing to yourself in a subtle way. But it does happen all the time. That's why I said the relationship with yourself is a very important thing. So that you. Now, no one else is abusing you, but you might end up abusing yourself. So you have to be very careful of the way that you are really treating yourself.

If someone listening to this feels like they have a fear family member or a friend who is suffering from trauma and they're wanting to help them, what are some ways that you would recommend they go about doing that?

Having an open conversation without having any judgment. They have to go with complete open mind, open heart, and zero judgmental attitude towards the person and ask what they need. And just maybe starting with being a listening ear and nothing else rather than trying to fix the problem. I think sometimes going into the fixing mode can push the person away. So just really go with like, I don't know what you need, I don't know how I can help you, but I'm here. Hey, do you want to just talk? Because just the validation, just being her, just sharing the pain is so important. It's really like the person has been carrying this pain on their own alone, and someone has to take some of that weight. Yeah, yeah.

So with everything we've talked about, what.

Would you Say is the most important thing for someone to focus on if they are wanting to. I don't even know how to say. I don't want to say break free. I don't want to say overcome, but move past trauma and get to a place where they feel good again.

The number one priority, I think, in the trauma healing is to stop the self blame. And that is a very common thing that people struggle with. No matter what kind of trauma they come with, there's some sort of a self blame that happens at the end. And if they can come out of it and yes, they will still feel the injury, they will still feel the pain, but at least they know that it wasn't their fault or if it was somehow their fault, that they forgave themselves, but they have some sort of an acceptance of what happened and acceptance of who they are, then you could be halfway done. Halfway done for sure.

I love that. Dr. Darcy, tell us more about where your book. First of all, you have a book that has come out, the Trauma Map. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Sure. So this is a book for general public, not. Not for therapists only. A lot of the stuff that I talk to you about is there, but I broke the. The trauma explanation into sort of four or five different steps about how you can follow that in a. In a simple way with yourself. And the most important thing about the book for me to mention is that I talk about how trauma creates a disconnect from yourself in different ways. Right from your heart, from your mind, from the family members, from your body. Just kind of a little bit of how I talked about it here. And then I give specific steps, exercises, ways to find tools to reconnect to yourself, basically. So it has good exercises to do, but I recommend them to. For people to do them with a journaling next to them. So they can really practice all the tools.

Absolutely.

And people can get that on Amazon.

That's right.

Which is how the world buys things now.

So I also have an audiobook.

Oh, awesome. I am totally into audiobooks.

I read it myself, so I'm excited about it.

You read it yourself? That's what you said.

I did.

Those are the best ones.

When the author reads themselves.

Yeah.

You know my favorite, I thought, hey, I have an accent. If someone else reads it, it's not going to sound like me. I said I should not.

It has to be you. I love it. Where is your accent from?

Originally from Turkey.

Oh, beautiful. I've only flown through Turkey, but I really want to go back One day for sure.

Sure.

I had the Turkish coffee. Oh my gosh. It was strong. But I do love strong coffee. Yes, I loved it. The air, the airport in Istanbul was, was beautiful. For sure. That's true. Where, where can the audience find more about you and follow you and learn more about the things that you do?

Well, I have a treatment center, a trauma treatment center in Los Angeles. It's called Reconnect Trauma Treatment Center. So you can definitely, if you google reconnects. Well, actually it's reconnectcenter.com or if you look at Trauma Map. I have a YouTube channel that I've been doing for maybe 10 weeks now and 10, 15 minutes each week I talk about different parts of trauma. I also welcome people to actually email me questions if they have questions that they want me to answer. I, I do question answers on youtubes so it's a great way to just sort of learn more and I give tools. I also teach grounding techniques in the videos so hopefully people can benefit from them.

Yes, that is an amazing resource and we will definitely link to those in the show notes as well.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, Dr. Darca. I loved our conversation. I loved your actionable items for people who are suffering from. From trauma and ultimately to know that there's a way out. I appreciate it.

Thank you, Kimberly. It was a pleasure.

Here are my key pies takeaways from today's episode. This is a heavy topic and if you were listening to this and thinking of circumstances or things that have happened in your life that were bringing up some of those feelings of reliving that trauma, then be sure that you do some self care for you. Do something that's going to reintegrate you re recenter you and get you back to a place where you feel safe. Maybe that is talking to a friend, going for a walk, walk, doing some yoga, just taking some time to meditate, taking a long hot bath. Something that will bring you back into your present moment and your present body. Here's my first key takeaway from today's episode. Trauma is when we feel overwhelmed and powerless. When our bodies feel overwhelmed by the circumstances around us, yet we feel like we are powerless to do anything about it. Especially overwhelmed in the sense of a fight or flight response where our body is wanting to flee the situation or fight whoever or whatever the circumstances in the face of our situation. But we feel stuck and we can't. It is when we are in that situation where we feel stuck, trapped in the face of danger and like we don't have the resources to fight or flight from what is facing us. We therefore feel powerless, which can lead to feelings of trauma in our body. So realize that's what trauma is and ask yourself if there have been situations in your past, whether it be from maybe your childhood or maybe even just the past year or so, where you have felt that way. My second key takeaway for you today is to not blame yourself for that. I have spent way too long in my life telling myself that I didn't experience a trauma that I did definitely experience, and telling myself that I was stronger than that, that it was ridiculous, it was stupid to think about it. You know, people would. Would think that whatever all the things that I would tell myself in my mind, and I would just keep pushing it down, pushing it down. And for over a decade, I dealt with, and honestly, still to some extent, instant dealing with blaming myself for it or telling myself that. That I could be better than this, I could get over it if I wanted to. I'm being ridiculous, but that's not true. It's not until I really. Even partly because of the conversation I had with Dr. Darsa, it happened in a time in my life where this is a conversation I'd been having with other people about the same circumstance or circumstances that were actually a traumatic event for me, but I never admitted to myself. But several people in my life right around when this podcast took place were. Were mentioning this to me, that. That they believed I had actually experienced trauma and that I needed to get help for it. And at first I. I really fought that, and I was like, no, you don't understand.

You're making it more than it was.

Like, it's really not a big deal. But when I finally admitted to myself that I experienced trauma.

Broke me.

And it's something I decided I was going to deal with. And so my third key pious takeaway for you is to get help, make a step, take a step forward. To get help for the situation that you're telling yourself wasn't that big of a deal or you should be bigger than, or the situation that you keep having flashbacks to, the situation that you can't quite move past on the situation that you can't seem to forgive what happened. Help is available. So whatever that looks like for you, perhaps you decide to get help from a certified professional therapist. I highly recommend the same type of therapist that Dr. Darca recommended. I highly recommend the same type of therapist Dr. Darca recommended who have training and EMDR. There were several other ones that she had mentioned that I recommend you find a good one who is not going to make things worse, who you can either get referrals to or at least go and look up their reviews online. Ideally, maybe even have a conversation with them before seeing them for your first round of therapy. But remember, if you don't feel safe with your therapist, if you feel like they don't understand you or that you just don't get a good vibe from it, don't push yourself there. Especially when you're going to be talking about something that is so hard and vulnerable to speak about. Then be sure you find a therapist to help you with that that you trust. And a bonus key piece takeaway I have from this episode is to realize that we have the ability as parents, as spouses, as friends, as family members to be that safe place for other people in this their lives. Dr. Darca and I spoke a bit about what that looks like for children and how children need that safe place and that's going to help them to be resilient in the face of trauma if they ever experience that in our lives. And we have that ability to be that for the people in our lives as well. We never know what someone is going through that we speak with or that we're friends with, or that even that we're related to. And the best thing that we can always do is show empathy, show love, and show compassion to those that we interact with that we see even out at the grocery store, but especially for those people that we love. I hope you enjoyed today's episode as much as I did. Friends, I hope you enjoyed today's podcast. Remember to go and subscribe to this podcast and leave an honest review. I I love to hear from you guys, so be sure to go and do that and it will also help more people find the podcast as well. You can always find out more information by going to itstartswithattraction.com for show notes, for updates, and to join the email list so that every Friday you can get an encouraging email that specifically tells you what you can do to work on your pies so that you can become the best best that you can be physically, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually. Until next week, keep working on your pies and stay strong.