Brave Biz Lab 2024 04 05

Sam.

Hello.

Hello. How are you?

I am good. How are you?

I'm good. Happy Friday.

Friday. I hope that. I mean, I just read the earthquake news. It didn't reach you?

No. It. It hit one of my clients though, so she might be joining us. But it wasn't a big earthquake, I don't think.

Okay. Thank God.

Okay. I know.

Well, it's.

It's. I mean, not funny, haha. But it's interesting because I was actually talking to my dad last night about how the Pacific Northwest is actually. There's a 1 in 3 chance that they're going to get a cataclysmic earthquake in the next 10 years.

Like.

Like, like. Right.

Yeah.

No, but like it's projected that like half the population will survive in a good case scenario, so. And then he brought up that New Jersey was also New Jersey. New York was also due for an earthquake. It's like. Oh, all right. Well, there we go.

Yeah. Everything gets into perspective, right?

It really does. Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. I hope I didn't, like, you know. You know. Well, basically, I'm very grateful for your patience because I'm. This.

Yeah, this is. Okay. So I just want to normalize. Trying to figure out how to communicate what you do and who you help. It's one of the hardest things. It's one of the hardest things. That's why we do market research, so we can hear it from our ideal clients. And we don't have. Okay, so this is one of the hardest things. And once you get it, you're going to get it.

Like it's.

It's just going to click. Right. And it's going to take practice. No, Luna. Damn it. Never mind. I had her in place and she just wandered off and. And ate all the treats that she was supposed to not be eating. Anyway, welcome. Happy Friday, everyone. Okay, let's start off with a little celebration. What are you celebrating from this week? Not everyone at once.

I'll go.

Yeah.

Aside from the fact that my certification came through, which we celebrated on Wednesday, everyone in my house is well again. So I sent the last kid back to school on Thursday. So we. For the last week and a half, we've had some. Somebody sick and everyone is healthy again. Let's keep it that way.

That is absolutely worthy of celebrating.

Hi.

Hello.

Roberto. Do you want to go next with what you're celebrating?

I am celebrating. It's Friday and I took a complete day off yesterday. I did nothing.

Yes.

Yeah.

And now I'm behind. Yeah.

Just a quick note on that. Like we're Born behind. We're born, like, not knowing how to walk yet. Like, we start first grade not having done any of the work yet. You know, we start a job not knowing, like, anything about that job. And then every single day we start anything. We're always behind. So accept the behindness. It is a human condition. All right, what other, what other celebrations do we have today?

I mean, speaking of which, for me this week I was thinking, well, how come I really want the rest if I haven't achieved results? And that shifted to a new mindset that, to shift a mindset takes a lot of work. And I mean, the work that we're doing right now about get out of my expert language and to speak the client's language. It's a big aha. So then I, Roberto, I told myself, today I'm resting and I didn't work out today. Normally I work out six times a week, twice a day. So. Yeah.

Yeah.

Have to have a rest.

Yeah, I'm going to talk about that in a second because that's, that's an important point. But thank you for sharing that and congratulations on the rest. Who wants to go next?

I'll go. Yeah, I'm celebrating getting my first client onboarding session scheduled. So that's in the books.

Yay.

Next question is when do I give them a due date on the payment? Since, like, they don't start until May. So that's my question later.

Yeah, we'll talk. We'll touch on that for sure. Thank you. And who's next? Who wants to celebrate something?

Susan?

Lauren.

I cried about eight times today, so I don't really feel like I have much to celebrate today.

You can celebrate the crying. It's better out than in.

Yeah, it was pretty ugly.

Yeah.

Outside on a tram mass, not mascara like running down my face. So I looked more like someone from a Halloween movie than anything else. Very brutal. Yeah, it's just because someone hurt my feelings and I'm extra sensitive today, but yes, it's fine.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm sorry. That's. That's the worst. Yeah.

Anyways.

Yeah.

Big hug.

Yeah.

Well, then we'll celebrate that you're here, Susan. How about that?

Yeah. Yeah.

Awesome. And Lauren can't talk now, but we'll come in later so we'll hear her celebration next. Okay. I want really quick.

Yeah, Sorry, sorry, sorry. One important thing I need to celebrate that I didn't mention, which was signing up to work with you one on one K. So I had to say that important.

Yeah, I'm celebrating that too. I'm so excited. Awesome. All right, well, before we go into open Q and A, I want to address that like an elephant that just walked into the room with Dina's celebration about deserving rest. Right? Deserving rest. Okay. So we're raised in the culture, most of us. I mean, I think everyone here has had, you know, serious contact with American culture where you have to justify giving yourself time off. Right. Like, you only get to rest once you've done all the work, right?

Yes. All the results.

Yeah.

Cool.

So, like, you know, if you don't rest, if you don't sleep, like, what happens to you as a human being?

Pass out from exhaustion.

Pass out from exhaustion. You can die. You can. Like, it's. There's a reason why sleep deprivation is against the, what, the Geneva Con Convention. It's terrible for humans. Right. So I want you to think about, you know, if you're dangling rest as a reward for yourself for getting all the stuff done, the equivalent is not letting yourself eat or drink water or go to the bathroom until you go and do all the work. Like, it's literally the same thing. Your it is. Rest is a human physiological need. You cannot deprive yourself of rest. You know, oftentimes those of us with ADHD especially, learn that we have to, like, really shove through and work through exhaustion so that we can, you know, get to deadlines that we can keep up with the people who seem to have it all figured out. When we feel like we don't have it figured out and we push ourselves up past exhaustion, we burn ourselves out constantly. Right. And we dangle rest as that reward. And that's bullshit. And if you keep doing that, your business won't work out. I. I can say that without a doubt, if you keep dangling rest as a reward for getting work done, like, your business is not going to last because you're not going to last.

Right.

There's never going to be an end to the work. There's never going to be an end to your to do list. You're never going to cross absolutely everything on. You actually have to prioritize rest above. Above the work, because if you're not well rested, you're not going to have access to your creativity, you're not well rested, your immune system is not going to be as strong, which means you're going to get sick more often, which means you're going to be an unreliable service provider to your clients. Yes.

How. I mean, what was surprising to me and the question that I asked, how do I recognize that I need the rest. I didn't have the evidence in place that I should be needing rest.

Yeah, yeah, it's. So the evidence is there. It's something that we've learned to ignore, however. Right. So when we need rest, when we're tired, it's. It's that, oh, what. What do I need to do next?

Yes. God, I have.

Okay, one more thing. Well, I can, like, it's that point where you think you can do just one more thing, but you and I both know do, like, pushing yourself through doing that one more thing. When you have that, like, oh, just one more thing and then I'll be done. Is going to take three times longer than when you were rested. Right. So you're like, I'll just give another half hour. I want to get this one thing done. And it's an hour and a half later and you're starving and you're hangry and you know things are going wrong. Susan, for me, therapy plus working with coaches to learn how to be more in tune with my body so I can heed the signs. Yeah. You know, it's not something that I'm going to tell you how to do right now. And you're like, awesome. I'm perfect at it now. Great. You know, it's really, it's. It's learning to tune into your body and really understanding what's happening with it and something that I'm still working on. I'm. I'm not, I'm not perfect at this by any means. It's still something that feels so unnatural for me to get to a point in the evening where I'm like, oh, I still have so much work to do and I think I can get like the next bit done. And I check in with myself and I'm like, but there's fatigue here. Like, not bone deep weariness where, like, I can't do another thing. It's just like, there's fatigue. I could do another thing, but I'm tired and I don't feel like I have my normal access to my creativity. Cool. That is the sign that is. That is the thing that we need to start tuning into. All right. This is especially important for, for you if you're also working, you know, other jobs, if you're doing contract work and you're managing that time management with your business. Right. Shifting gears from one thing to the other to the other is exhausting on its own.

To my full time job, which I'm as a mom, which I'm super grateful.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

I didn't until recently, I didn't acknowledge that I'm doing, you know. Yeah. Anyway.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's. That's everyone's homework for the next few weeks. I want you to really tune into when am I actually tired? And when you're actually tired, it feels like you're cheating. It feels like you're being lazy. But when tiredness hits, walk away. Give yourself the rest. Focus on something other than work. I swear to God, it feels like you're being lazy and you're not doing enough in your business, but it will make you so much more impactful and effective in your business. All right, I don't have a problem with attracting people who are lazy and don't work enough. Every single one of you has an element of perfectionism and overwork. Okay. Like, there's workaholism in the air. Right. And I think it's because like attracts like. And. Yeah. And also to those of you who've had an earthquake, I'm glad you're safe, and I'm glad you're good. But deal. Okay. Do you guys accept that homework? Okay, cool. All right, what questions do we have today?

I had the question. So I have my first client, and we have the onboarding session scheduled. We're starting in May, and they have the package, the email that show that shares all of the questionnaires and whatnot. But I realized that I didn't put, like, pay by this date. I'm just assuming pay before the May 1st. And then now I'm in my head, I'm like, I screwed up everything because I didn't outline everything properly.

Yeah. Okay, cool. So everyone is going to screw everything up in that first couple clients. It happens. It happens. Because there's so many parts you have to remember, right?

Yeah.

Congratulations on getting your first client. Congratulations on getting them booked for their first session. That is one of the biggest things, because once you have them booked, like, that's half the battle. They have a deadline already built in. So there are a couple of ways you can deal with this. You can. You can reach out to them in, like, a week or so and say, hey, you know, just want to check in. You know, when do you think you can get these things back to me by. Because I'm going to start, you know, formulating your program based on the answers, you know, and also let me know if there's any questions in our agreement.

Yep.

Yep. I did include that.

Let me know if there's any questions. So I have that covered, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So a question like that can send people to go check out the agreement. You know, best practice for the future is when you send your onboarding email or you know, just like the summary of what they need to do. You know, I like to number it. So, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. However many steps they need to take, I like to tell them, you know, first and foremost, you have to go and sign your agreement, hear instructions to do that. Second, you have to go and set up payment. And here's the link to do that. And then in italics underneath, I'll, I'll give them like a deadline for it. You know, I, you know, I want this done by, or I need this done by X amount of date, you.

Know, and typically like, what's the date? Do you make sense?

I mean, it kind of depends. If someone, if someone's been in my world and like, they're like such a firm. Yes. I'll give them several days.

Okay.

Right. If someone, like, is like, yeah. If someone has like super, super high energy around it and like, I kind of want to test like, if they're actually committed to it, I'll give them a deadline by like that night or the next day. Because I, I, I don't want to waste my time chasing them down if like they, they're just a really highly excitable person. You know, shit gets real when you're about to sign a contract.

Yeah.

And when you're about to like, give money to someone. Right. I want that excitement to like, cement into something real or not as soon as possible so I don't have to waste my time on them.

Got it.

Right. And so, and also remember, everyone, time kills deals. Right? Time kills deals. So like, you know, we want to incentivize our, our people to sign the contract and make the payment sooner rather than later. Right. That's one of the reasons why it's so important to get that first session booked. Right. Because that, that at least is something that is on their calendar. They feel like it's theirs already. Like, this is my coffee, you can't have it, you know, versus if this was like across the room and it was someone else's, like, I wouldn't feel like you can't take it away from me because it's not mine. But I will fight you for this coffee right now. Right. You know, there's a psychological thing that you'll notice and you, you probably haven't noticed it being done unless you also worked in retail. When you go, hi. When you go to, to like a clothing store and you're shopping around and say it's like a more high end clothing store, like, you know, Bloomingdale's or, you know, J. Crew used to do this. I don't know how good they're at training right now. Every experience I've had lately has sucked. But they will let you hold on to this stuff after you've tried it on for several minutes before they come and take it from you to put behind the counter. Right. The reason for this is the longer you hold it, the, the more you associate it already being yours. You know, so if, if they just say, oh, just leave the things that you want in the dressing room, you're actually far less likely to make the purchase. Right. The customer service seems like absolutely incredible. But you stop associating those things with already being yours because they're just in the dressing room. So when we, when we get a yes from someone, the first step, and I'm going to have you all repeat this back to me, the first step is booking their first session. Repeat it back. What's the first step after someone says yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Because then it's on their calendar. It already feels like it's theirs and it's a built in timeline for them or deadline for them to do the agreement and make the payment. So Monica, like you're already like, like so much further in the high probability of them making the payment and signing the contract than not having this session booked. Okay. Yeah. And you can also just say, hey, like, you know, let me know how, how many days you'll need to go over this and make payment. But you know, I will need this back by X date. Okay. Depends on how assertive you want to be. Okay.

Isn't sorry like that like my stress level increased because I'm thinking that it's a bit like how do I get them to do that or after they said yes because it seems like I'm putting pressure.

So I want you to go through holistic selling.

Okay?

Just go through the holistic selling videos because this is your business selling. How I break it down is like, it's just the next step if someone says yes. Like, it's not like, here, here's the most frustrating thing for me as a customer, as a client is if I say yes, I want something and then I'm not given instructions for how to get it.

Oh, yes, yes, yes.

You know, I had, I had a bookkeeper who, I kept telling her I wanted to hire her as a bookkeeper. She's like, okay, great. She Never gave me next steps. And it's like, like you're not letting me have the thing I want. It's frustrating. It's like, okay, well, do I go to someone else then you.

Now I totally get it. Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah. And also remember, your clients are humans. Right. And what do humans do? We get self conscious. We get worried. We think, like, there's something wrong with me. Right. So if they say yes to working with you and you start getting squirrely or like avoidant of telling them, here's how you book your. Here's when your first session is going to be. Here's how you make payment. Here's how you do this. They can get in their head and think, oh, she doesn't want to work with me. She doesn't like me. You know, there's something wrong with me that they don't like me. And then. And then they'll peace out because they don't want to face the rejection from you because they look up to you.

Okay, I get it. Yeah.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

Susan.

If you have other stuff on this topics, this isn't it. This is just me raising my hand before I forget my.

Yeah.

Is there, Is there anything else on this topic? Does that make sense to everyone? And we can circle back to it. Okay, perfect. All right, Susan, what's your question?

Yes.

So I remember we mentioned yesterday 7:15. And then I was trying to figure out afterwards where does the 715 come from? Because then we at some point had 4,000, and then maybe I didn't.

So is seven. So, okay, so if your client signs up for six months of working with you, if they choose the monthly payment option, then it's $715 a month.

Okay.

If they choose to pay in full for the six months, then they get a small discount. It's like, I think it works out to like 250 bucks or ish. And it's just 4,000 paid in full.

Okay.

I just double checked because then I, I did math by hand and that wasn't a smart idea. So I think maybe I actually mix something up. I did mix something up.

Okay.

Clear.

Thanks.

That's okay. Yeah. Because the. Yeah, if they were to pay monthly, then it, it would work out to 4290. No. Yeah. Thanks.

Perfect.

Yeah. Want to double click on that for everyone? You know, sometimes for your business model, it actually makes more sense to get people paying monthly. Right. Especially if you have ADHD and you're a little money avoidant. You know, having people pay monthly, like, you know, if you tend to be impulsive when you do have money in your possession. If you're like, ah, I can be a big spender right now, it makes sense to have your clients drip money to, to you. Right. So that you don't have, like a big lump sum at your disposal that, like, is going to run out at some point and then you're not going to have more coming in. Right. It can feel like you're not going to get it. But I can't tell you, In my six years of, of doing this work, I've only ever had two clients who like, genuinely, like, had to stop paying because they ran out of money or something happened. Right. People, people stay stick to their word generally, you know, especially if there's a contract in place. Yeah.

And also you can charge more.

Yeah, exactly.

Even if it's, I mean, even if it's not like a formal, you know, I have two prices. Psychologically, you're quoting a price. You know, I'm, I'm thinking, can I afford this now? Especially if your service is helping someone else make money. So if I, like, if I'm hiring a marketing person, let's say, or a salesperson, I don't need that money now to pay them in six months because the hope is that they're going to help me make money.

Right.

And a lot of that's subconscious. Right. Like you're in the mindset of, oh, this person I'm bringing on to help me generate sales or something in that framework. So you can.

Yeah, and it works in the business owner sense, but it also works in the I want a better job sense. Right, Right. I want a promotion sense. I, you know, want to change jobs, I don't hate my life sense. Right. You know, they're, you know, in my business, about 30% of people will always pay in full. You know that. Which means, you know, 70% of my clients are always going to pay with a monthly payment plan. You know, it'll be different for each and every one of you that, that difference. Because you all have different personalities and you attract different, you know, personalities than I do. But like, you get to, you get to figure out what the math on that is going to be. Yeah. Dina, does that. Sorry, does that answer your question? Susan? Okay, cool.

Dina, Maybe I am a bit far ahead. It's just a question that came to me is that when I do the market research, so, and you mentioned in the videos that it can, it is a possibility that somebody will tell me, oh, my God, I really want to work with you. So then I have to do a separate call, and they might ask me, how much do you charge? And I don't know.

Yes, totally. Yeah. So one of the. One of the ways you want to answer that is, like, you know, it really depends, like, what I. What I want to do is before I can. Before I tell you, like, what program would be best for you, let's do that other call so I can really deeply understand what your goals are.

All.

All the things. And then I can give you a proper quote, Right. Because I might quote you something right now that you don't actually need. It might be too expensive. It might be the more expensive option. That is not the thing you need right now. I could also underquote you something thinking that you only need one problem solved when really you need these other things, and then you're going to be really annoyed that the price is higher. Oh. You know, if someone were to go up to a contractor and say, hi, I would like to build a house, how much can the contractor, based on that information say, oh, it'll be $200,000. Like, not if they want 17 bedrooms, 15 bathrooms, two kitchens, you know, a granite patio, all the things.

I get it. Okay.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah. All right. What other questions do we have today?

Sorry, I was going to make a quick comment about the breaking things down into monthly plan. I never thought about this before, but as a business owner, right. Having money coming in every month, even if it's a smaller portion, gives you the. At least gives you the tranquility that you're not going, like, into these, like, peaks and valleys. Takes away that feeling of, like, oh, my gosh, four months and I haven't gotten paid. Right. But it kind of evens it out and. And helps.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That. That consistent cash flow is an amazing tonic for your nervous system. You know, it. It just. It gives you proof every. Every month that you're not going to die, that you're not going to run out. Money. There's always money coming in. Like, honestly, like, on a basic psychological level, that's what it is. Right. You know, if you know that you charge $2,000 a month and you have four clients who are paying monthly, like, for as long as they are in contract, you're going to have $8,000 a month. You know, anything else is just on top of that. Right. And also makes it less urgent for you to get a client now. You know, if. If it's been two months since you've signed a new client, like, you're gonna start Panicking. If you have everyone paying full all the time. Right. Because you're not. You're. It's been two months since you've had any money come in.

Yeah.

You have adhd. I bet you when that money came in a couple months ago, you spent it. David.

I was gonna say I. I extreme. I hard agree because I even. I've had months when I had, like, six figures in revenue, and then I've had, like, you know, zero. And it doesn't take much for the panic to set in. Like, maybe that's it. Maybe I've sold my best sale and, like, I've run out of ideas. And it just, like, you know, it really makes a big difference to have, like, consistent cash flow just for your own. Your own brain. You can. So one hack that I. I do is I pay myself every week now for my business, my personal. So I get the dopamine hit. Money is sitting there, and I. So it's not like I could spend it in the business, but I'm less likely to. Not like, in my bank account if you automate that and you give yourself a little drip and like, that's your. Your stipend, your owner stipend. And then, like, at the end of the year or quarterly, whatever, you can take more, depending on how well you're doing. It, like, calms the, you know, the energy.

Yeah. And then. Oh, Susan. Oh, money. I'm rich. I can now pay for this and this and this. And then three months later, oh, my God. Oh, my God. I have no money. What happened?

Yeah, literally, like, every other month, like, I. I am there. And. And he. You know, it doesn't matter how much money I make. Meaning the. The. The fluctuation is the same. It's the. It's the change.

Yeah.

Like, if you make more money, they'll just be a bigger jump when you have a small month.

Yeah. You know, I was thinking about this this morning because this has been my relationship with money journey is that, you know, it used to be. And I'm still working on this to a certain degree, is that, you know, when I was tight on money, you know, in my head, I'd be making a list of all the things I wanted to buy when I had the money. You know, I'd be like, I want a new computer and I want to buy new shoes, and I want to buy. I want to go and get new jeans, and I want this and I want that. No, I should probably go get new tires for my car, and I'd have this running list. And it was like, like a purchase debt. Like, things that I owe myself.

Oh, my God.

Right? And then as soon as the money came in, I'd be like, cool, well, I owe myself this stuff. So then I go and I spend the money on those things, right? Because, like, I've been telling myself, like, that has been, like, my reward, and I wouldn't feel good about any of it. You know, it would just be like, oh, well, now I have it. Like, but now I don't have any money, so now I'm back in purchase debt, right? And ultimately those things, like, you tell yourself those things are going to change your life. They're going to make you feel more confident, you're going to get work better, you know, done better, faster, stronger, whatever. Oh, by Carrie. And, you know, it becomes like this thing that you're like, oh, I'm going to reward myself once I have the money. But what you end up putting yourself in is this again, boom, bust cycle, where you get the money and then you spend the money, and then you get the money and then you spend the money. And that's not helpful. You know, one of the things that I've had to work on in my relationship with money is when I get money, I have to very consciously, like, let myself just sit with it, you know, and really assess. Like, you know, I still make the list of things that I want to buy in my head, but it's like, do I really need that? Do I really want that something that, like, is actually going to make a difference for me right now? Or will me allowing this money to sit and grow in my account so that I can then invest in something that will actually have dividends in my business or in my life, will that make me happier? Right.

We.

We tend to, in our society, like, look for. And also with ADHD and just, you know, having our money habits that were handed down from our parents, we tend to, like, associate, like, making ourselves feel better with spending the money. Right. But it's. It's a very cheap make yourself feel better.

Comment.

And a question for Katie. Yeah, so years ago, I took this money mindset course, and I still do this today. Rather like, just put. Visualize yourself buying the thing that's going to make you really happy and just sit in that, like, pretend you just bought it and love it. Right? Yeah, the thing, I don't know about you guys, but, like, once it. Once I have it and it's done, once that dopamine hit is done, like, then it's actually not that exciting.

Anymore.

Right. So I, so I pretend to buy it. I even do this in my Amazon shopping cart. I put it in my shopping cart and then I just save it for later because for a minute I feel like I'm buying it and then I'm like, oh, it's wonderful, this new red lipstick. And then I'm like, then I don't actually care about it anymore. So that's just a practice I learned years ago, which is really good. Now, tires, on the other hand, I recommend buying those tires.

Right, right, right. You have to, you have to assess, you know, like, if, if the treads are gone on your tire, it's a little dangerous to be driving around, especially.

If it rains, pretend to buy this. But actually.

Yeah, exactly. Right.

My question was on the, on the, you know, pay all up front versus, you know, payment plan. And this is just one of my pet peeves. I just want to get your thoughts about it is I actually love it when people's pay in full option is the same price as the payment plan. And that's just my own, like, I grew up really poor and I remember being like, it's so not fair that people who have the money already are getting a discount. Like, and I know that's my own issue to get over, but I actually really love it when, oh, it's actually the same price. It's just a matter of how you want to pay.

Yeah.

Thoughts around that. Like, because I don't. I know the discount is more to, like, incentivize people to pay it up front.

Yeah.

I love giving people the option of, like, equity of payment.

Yeah. I mean, I. There's no right answer here. There's no right answer here. The people who are going to pay up front are always going to pay up front. You know, I tend to do it because I don't like negotiating on price ever.

Yeah.

Right. So, like, if, if someone's paying up front, like, they're also more often likely to be the people who try to negotiate. Right. So if I, if I'm saying, like, you already got like $600 off or this amount of money off, then there's less reason for them to try to negotiate it, you know, but it's honestly just that, like, I don't want to have to put my time and energy into, like, negotiating back and forth on price. You know, the price is the price is the price is the price, you know, and that way I get to feel like I'm being in integrity that everyone's paying the same amount. Right. But then again, you know, there is also the argument for it feeding into money trauma. There absolutely is. You know, there's. There's a whole argument around, like, should you be upfront about your pricing? Like, depending on how you feel? Like, I used to be very adamant about absolutely not. Like, once people inquire, they should find out then, but it's ultimately up to you. And, and you know, how you would want to deal with the money. And also, like, this is like, this is like one of those conversations that just like, has all the points on all the sides. And also, we can never assume that our clients make money decisions the same way we do.

Agree.

Right. I remember being in a training early on when I was just getting into money archetypes, and I won't name names, but there is one client who is a major maverick, just like I am, and they shared that. You know, we were kind of riffing on how normal it is for us to occasionally just run out of money because, like, we're like, yeah, we can get more. It's fine. And then there was another client who is a very heavy accumulator who is like, I'm sweating. Stop talking about this right now. This is making me nervous.

Names have been changed to protect the innocent.

Exactly. Are you just talking about David and me? Like, we're not here.

Out on yourself.

But, you know, they both make money decisions very differently. Right.

And.

And we just have to kind of like, be accepting of how everyone's going to make their money decisions.

You know, can I give a perspective on. Because I appreciate Yvonne's point about equity and, and not just essentially giving a discount for people who have money for a lot of businesses, I mean, I have a line of credit that I use for. Because my expenses are regular, regardless of whether my revenue is. And so for a lot of businesses that are either scaling or looking to scale or. Or have large overhead, paying in full is less money. Meaning if you pay over time, it costs. Sorry, the other way around. Paying over time is less money because they're paying. They might be paying interest, they might be paying off debt. It means they're scaling more slowly. And so there is something to be said for kind of equalizing it. Like by adding a little bit to the payments, you actually make it more fair to everyone so that you can make a decision as to whether or not. And for large purchases, I mean, there's interest rate that, you know, holding on to your money some. So, like, I, I hear it, but I also, I think that, that for a lot of business owners that are Trying to scale. There's a world of difference between paying in full versus paying on a payment plan.

Right.

Thank you for that. That's a good perspective.

Yeah. Yeah. I also. I want to take it a different direction also, is, you know, when we think about ethics of how to charge and what to charge and all this stuff, like, know that there is, like, an extremely unethical way that a lot of coaches manage this, and it's. Oh, you can't afford to pay in full. Great. You can't afford the payment plan. Oh, well, that's no problem. Like, this program's a year, and the payment plan is every single month. But you know what you could do? Here are partners who are lenders, and they will lend you the money to pay for the program, and you pay it off over three years, and it's less. It's like a 25% interest rate.

Yeah.

That's insane.

Right? And they're. And they're pushing it in this. In the potential client's face, like, this is the best option because you need this. Right. And. And sometimes, like, the person will default on that, and that shit affects their credit report, which. Which continues their money issues into the future. Know that there are coaches out there that do that, and it's not correct. And they. And they also get a kickback for referring the person who got the loan. Not naming any names. I will be naming names as soon as there's a certain lapse of time that I won't get food. But, yeah. So, like, as we think of the ethics of it, like, know that you know how you choose to do this. As long as you're not doing that.

Yeah.

You're in good standing ethically. All right. What other questions do we have on this topic or something else? Dina, did you. Was that a.

A quick one and then a longer one? Well, you spoke about the purchase debt, so I. Before we started our work and before many more insights about money, I. I don't know. Six months ago, I set myself a goal. With the first paycheck, I will get myself a coffee machine. And I used to be a spender, but for many years, I'm working, and now I'm actually clearing my closet. I really aspire to get to 20 clothes in the closet. So I. I'm trying. I'm really. I'm in a state that I have everything and so on, but I do want to purchase that coffee machine.

Yeah.

So should I get it out of the way and how.

So, okay, so here. Here's the reason why this is Going to be ongoing work for all of us. Right. Is genuinely there's going to be something that just makes your life better, that makes you happy. You know that every single day you go and you make your coffee on this machine and you're like, oh, I love this. This just makes me. I'm so happy I invested in this. Right. It's one of the reasons why so often in money work, the first assignment is to go and buy new underwear. Right? Because if every day you're putting on underwear that, like, the elastic showing, there's holes, like, you know, it's stretched out, you're like, oh, God. Like, this is not comfortable anymore. Like, that's. It's what I call a poverty reminder. Right? Because it's like, oh, I. Like, I don't want to spend the money on this right now because money's tight. Cool. I'll wait. So every day you have this small little moment where you're conditioning yourselves. Money's tight. Money so tight that I am not buying new underwear.

I don't want that.

You know, when you take that away, you know, it's just that lack of that conditioning every single day, which allows for you to focus more on generating income, on generating more money, because it's also, like, you're not training yourself on the scarcity of it every single day with that microsecond where you're just making a decision to not go and buy new underwear. And it's usually like a fairly affordable purchase for most people, unless you have really expensive taste in underwear, which is possible. But also, you don't necessarily have to go and buy the expensive underwear when you do this. Right.

It's also a great way to trigger adhd. People that were bad at laundry.

Yep, yep, yep.

I can't turn this one inside out. I already used the other one. Yeah.

Yep, yep. I think we've all been there anyway. I hope we've all been there. And then I feel really bad.

You can't have the days of the week underwear. Right. Because I just be bad.

I don't know. I always feel so dean on these calls. All right. Yeah. So, like, it takes some soul searching. You know, one of the things that I. When I'm going and buying stuff, when I go clothes shopping, usually the first time I go, I don't buy a single thing. I'll go and I'll try on a bunch of stuff and, like, I'll make a list of everything that I tried on. I'll take pictures, but I won't buy anything in the moment. And then over the next couple days, I'll notice what things I'm regretting walking away from. You know, the things that I'm like, like, I hope no one else gets it. I really wanted it. Like, oh, God. I, ah, you know, and then those are the things that I'll actually go back and buy. And to be kind to the salespeople, I'll. I'll very intentionally make sure that I'm giving credit to the right person for having helped me. Right. That I feel an integrity and I'm like not taking advantage of the system. Right. Because I know like a lot of shops operate on commissions, but, you know, like, if it's something that you really, really, really, really want, you regret not getting, you know, that's not something that you're going to regret.

Yes. And at the same time, I know if I look at it with a cold mind, it's not the right time to buy it.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe we can tie it to like, you know, your first $10,000 month.

Yeah. Okay, good.

You know, that is your reward for your first $10,000 month. That's the present you're getting yourself.

Then I'm more motivated to get the coffee machine fast.

Exactly, exactly. Get those clients. Yes. Clients equal coffee. I think that's always a good association.

Thank you. And so, yes, it's a good feeling and a good association. That's perfect. Okay, so I walk without a face right now because I don't know if it's an expression in English, but basically it sits on the tip of my tongue. But I cannot articulate it, you know what? Yeah. Without physics and Russians. So anyway, so. So I cannot articulate in the client's language what the client want. And I have sent you the last version.

I'm going to pause you here.

Okay.

This is just your interviews.

Yes, I know. That's my number one goal, to get them call. I get it. Everything you said totally get it. I agree. I just know how to.

Yeah.

Or maybe it's good to go. And that's good to go.

The last iteration is good to go. That's it. Yeah. And then of course, we're going to iterate it after you get through your first 10 or 20 interviews and it's not too long.

Okay.

It's good to go.

Perfect.

And you know what, you're going to post it multiple times. If you don't get any interviews after posting it like seven times, then we will, then we're going to change it.

Okay.

But you're good to go.

Okay, perfect. And do I need to suggest that I will give them something. For example, the insights from that market research, the insights back to the.

You don't necessarily have to. You don't necessarily have to. You could offer like, like a 30 minute audit. The only problem with that is you often give too much away. And if they were going to become your client, they don't become your client.

So better not to keep it super clean.

Yeah, yeah. You're just asking for their help.

Right.

Remember like people like doing nice things for each other.

Yeah. So I am, I'm a bit conscious about it because CEOs are super busy.

Yeah.

The first, my first response to you, I don't know if you remember was will they agree to do that? And you said you would be surprised. So. Yes. Yes. Also in the text it's says, and if that's okay, I will send it for your approval. It says that here is the deal. Book it with that link. Currently, can I offer them two options? Because some.

I wouldn't. I wouldn't. It creates too much back and forth. It makes it too much work. And you're more likely to get someone to say, yeah, I'll do it. And then you offer them the times and then they never get back to you. And then they start feeling weird. They never got back to you.

Huh. Do you think CEOs will go and click on that link and schedule. Yes. I mean, yeah. I mean, yeah. Okay. Okay. So this is only in my head only. Okay.

Or they'll delegate to their executive assistant.

That's what I was gonna say. Yeah. They don't schedule it. They'll send it to someone.

Do you know the lengths that I go to procrastinate doing I don't want to do. If I have the opportunity to like get brownie points, points and have someone in the world think I'm nice and generous and like helpful and like not do the work I'm avoiding doing.

I'm.

I'm gonna go and schedule something. Right.

Okay. So I plan to do it on Tuesday then, or Wednesday. And what is. Well, I mean, I don't know why.

Don't overthink it. Don't overthink it. Do it as soon as possible. Get, get that email and that post out because it's not going to be the big deal.

You would laugh at me. But now they say that there are two eclipses and this is not a good time.

Then you know what? Like, do it after the eclipse. Do it whenever you feel empowered, but do it sooner rather than later, you know? Yeah.

I'm so excited. Okay. Okay. Okay, good. Thank you so much. My face back on? Yeah.

Yeah, of course. All right. What other questions do we have?

I'll go.

Yes, David.

Okay. Question about leadership. And as we scale and we bring on staff people and then we need our team members to then take initiative. So past the point, we're just delegating busy work and we have other people interacting with clients. I have this, like, nagging anxiety about things falling through the crack and quality control and, like, my clients thinking that I'm not paying attention to them. And I. I have trouble trusting myself as a leader because I, I just, I'm. I'm new at it. I've been a lawyer for a while, and I've been an entrepreneur, and I'm more confidence about that when it comes to, like, putting things in motion and then just, like, trusting the process to then just, like, go and do a thing with clients that, trust me, I. I get nervous and then I end up sabotaging it by, like, either micromanaging or just, like, taking things back and, you know, just double checking with the client and calling the client, like, is everything okay? And what I'm really doing is undermining my team members because I want them to be the contact, and I just. It's hard for me to get out of my own head.

Yeah. So they're actually. There are actually three different questions here, right? Yeah. So the first question is, like, how do you manage people? And like, like do that handoff energetically where you actually feel good about it? And that's internal work. Right. There's how do you train people on being good account managers. Right. And project managers. Right. Because that's also really important. And then, Crap, I lost the third one. Oh. And then there's maintaining that relationship with your client because you're the head of the firm. Right, Right. So a, like, part of this is, like, you're going to set up a system for account management. You're going to have them train on it. You're going to figure out, like, a cadence for you to check in with them and make sure everything's good. And you're going to have to just correct as you go. Yeah, Right. There's no, there's going to be no way for you to come up with the absolute perfect system right off the bat. You know, the very first car that was ever invented, were people, like, awesome. We have a car done. Like, we don't have to ever iterate this.

No. They were probably killed in an explosion. I got you.

Yeah, totally. Like, they needed seatbelts, they need to go a little faster. They needed air, you know, airbags. You know, they like, people got tired of cranking it. Right.

Yeah.

I do have a question for you, David, because this is kind of my previous wheelhouse as an HR partner.

Right.

Delegation piece. I think when you have to train them on how you expect to serve your clients. Right. And kind of do a little hand holding up front. But I think what's really important to feel good and not micromanage is let them know exactly when you expect them to come to you for help.

Yeah.

If there's a difficult client conversation, say I don't need to be involved, but I want to know that it happened.

Yeah.

You know, like, like just set the expectations that there are certain things where they need to let you know what happened.

Yeah.

And then the other thing I would say is if you're really worried about on the client side, ensure that there's a feedback mechanism where your client can always reach out to you if they're not comfortable with somebody in your company.

Yeah, right.

Right. And that way you don't have to go out and feed.

Yeah.

Like, hey, did they do okay? But you will hear immediately if they did not do okay. So it's kind of like the. Yeah, I expect you to.

Yeah.

And here's, you know, for your clients to say if you ever I still. Even though I you're with so and so in my company, I always have an open door and they have a way to reach you to let you.

Know if something's not working.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and I will, I will also name. Because David, I know some of your clients will absolutely abuse the out of that.

Yeah.

Right. Is maybe there's like a feedback form that gets sent to them automatically once a month.

Oh, there you go.

About like, you know, just checking like here's a little questionnaire about, like, you know, what questions you have about your case. Like any concerns about the support you're getting. And they know it doesn't necessarily go directly to the lawyer who's managing it so they can have honest feedback. Right. Because what we what like yes. And we don't want the, the people who are going to take advantage of it to be like, oh, I just get to be the squeaky wheel and then David gets to handle everything.

So that's the.

Yeah.

I, I, I had, I'm working hands on with a client now partly because my client was just like wildly inappropriate with the, the team member. Inappropriate in the sense that like calling like constantly late weekends and just like being demanding. And I felt like I need to now jump back in. And I, and it's also, it's also different for every team member that I have, depending on their personality and their skill level and how much experience they have. And so, you know, I, it's, it's a little overwhelming with, you know, I'm designing a system like in real time. I'm building this like, as I go.

Right.

And, and it like it doesn't matter how many clients I have or how much revenue I have. I like the idea, like an unhappy client keeps me up at night. Like the idea that like somebody is just like having second thoughts about whether they hired me. It like, yeah, partly is I need to get over that because that's life. And like, I can't.

Yeah.

There's absolutely no way to scale. It's literally just me handling every client matter. That's like, that's, that's a part time freelance. That's different. And so. Yeah, no, sure.

You know, can I say, because that really resonated with me and I think it's to do with inner self belief and what really helped me and also Katie helped me. She doesn't know it. With the 12th day we stop being a weenie is the discipline and consistency. So bring some activity to your life that doesn't, that may be not necessarily related to your clients, but related to you. I mean, this is what's working for me. And when people always tell me we always see you on LinkedIn, you're so consistent. And when I work out six times a week, twice a day, I know that it's maybe a lot, but I feel good because I am committing to myself. I'm not breaking a promise to myself. So maybe think about something small that you already do and keep and, and celebrate that consistency and maybe it will help as well.

Yeah. David, you know, the other thing I want you to think about here is, you know, you are a relationship based business owner.

Right.

Like more so than other lawyers might be. You know, that is, that is really your bread and butter. That is the thing that keeps people bringing referrals to you. You know, so as you're working all this out, one of the things that you might want to implement is like a monthly call through all the clients.

Yeah.

And, and not to see how they're doing, but to say, hey, listen, just, you know, I know you're working with so and so, but I always like to keep, you know, a finger on the pulse of everything that's going on, wanted to review the progress so far. So I'm really happy with how, like, Sarah has, you know, created this thing and that thing and the argument she's making. You know, it's exactly the strategy that we've designed and, you know, you know, and. Or that I would have designed as well. And you kind of, like, empower your. Your lawyers, you know, really, like, celebrate what they're doing. So you're complimenting them, you're not undercutting them, and then you're just saying, here's the strategy that we're looking at going forward, you know, and just wanted to check in, like, how are you feeling throughout this whole process? Right. Because that check in a. You're.

You're.

You're maintaining that relationship with them. You're, like, giving all the credit to the person who's managing their case. Right. You're also opening the door for a little bit of feedback.

Right.

And to hear how they're doing. And then you can give feedback to Sarah, like, hey, they might need a little more hand holding or they didn't understand that form you filed, blah, blah, blah. Do you mind just sending them a little breakdown down of, like, what its purpose is?

Right.

You know?

Yeah.

And then it also allows for you to have a reason to check in on every case once a month. Right, Right. Because you have, like, a day set aside where you're making these calls.

Right.

And I. And I realize the taking back the client I had last week, that was just being extremely inappropriately demanding. I also realized that the. As you were saying this, the better move was to empower my team members to draw a boundary.

Right.

Which instead, I made it worse because now I kind of just suggested that when a client gets difficult, you should make it my problem. And now I'm spending time dealing with client work instead of supervising and leading.

Right.

When what I can do is. And it came from a place of like, oh, my God, my client's not happy. I need to, like, fix it instead. The next time that happens, I just, you know, empower my team to, like, you have to draw boundaries, and I can teach you and help you.

Right.

Here's how to do that. Instead of making it my problem. Because I just trained both my. I trained my client that the way to get better retention is to be a pain in the ass. And I train my team member to just pass the buck when it gets hard and.

Right.

Yeah, that's.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know what? Like, it's uncomfortable, but sometimes we do have to Train our clients on how to best work with us.

Right.

You know, like, if I. If I have a client ever who's like, you know, I'm about to post this LinkedIn post in 5 minutes. Can you go and edit it for me? It's like, no, I can't. I can't. Like, I need. I need, like, 24 hours. I. I need some time to be able to, like, because a. You have no idea what's on my calendar right now. I might be in a client call. You know, I might. I might have doctor's appointments, I might have this, I might have that. My dog might be vomiting on the floor, and I'm dealing with it. Like, I need a little bit of time to be able to figure out where it's going to fit in my schedule and actually go in and do it well, you know, and it's uncomfortable, but it's also necessary. But also, like, if someone continuously, you know, breaches that boundary, they're not the right client for you. Right, right. And it's ultimately going to cause more problems in your firm than benefits of having them as a client.

Yeah.

You know, and think about David for.

Recognizing it, because now you can fix it.

Right.

Like, that's the fact that you recognize it. I just want to give you, like, a high five for that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going over. We're going over. And David and I are actually late for our other business partner. So really quickly want to do main takeaways and wrap up for the day. Who would like to kick us off? And we're gonna popcorn it. So whoever goes first goes. Picks the next person. Who picks the next person?

I have one that's kind of interesting. Main takeaway not related to our discussions, but I've noticed that, um, I. The way that you run these meetings has helped me in my teaching with the whole, like, pause, wait for somebody to ask a question. Because in my last cohort, I would be like, hey, is there any question? And then I'd, like, move on really quickly before, like, waiting. And then people actually ask questions and there's more interaction. People are learning more. So I just want to thank you for that. And it's helped me in my life.

I'm so happy.

Yeah.

Thank you. Great takeaway. Who wants to go next? Thank you, Monica. Oh, I'm sorry, Monica. You picked the next person?

Oh, Yvonne, sure.

I think. I mean, so much was. But the thing that stands out for me, I really appreciate David for the new perspective on the paid in full versus, like, just. Just Framing it a different way was really helpful. So that's my main. My main takeaway for today.

See, Dina, so many. And can I just acknowledge the. The team and each one of you and Katie, of course. And yeah, I'm like, I feel I had a lot of fears walking in because I made a lot of mistakes and I would invest not correctly or paid not in the right way and spend a lot of money not in the right way. And. And that fear completely disappeared and already paid off on so many levels and really mind blowing what I'm learning. And that's just my first week, so.

And who are you picking next, Dina?

David, My main takeaway is to. Empower my team. And really the point of hiring smart, capable people is to let them do their job and give them the space to do that instead of just using them as a backup for, like, when I physically or I can't do a thing.

Yeah.

Who's left? Roberto.

Oh, we can't hear you.

Oh, thank you. By the way, David, you just recited some famous words from Steve Jobs. He actually said the same thing about the reason why you hire smart people. Right, Sorry. My key takeaway has to do with that. Spreading out the cash flow to produce the psychological effect that money keeps coming in.

Yeah, thank you. And then I think last but not least, Lauren, if you. If you can share. Not sure if you're driving or something. Okay. She might not be able to. To jump in here. All right, well, everyone have an amazing Friday. Thank you so much for being here. And I will see most of you on Monday or next week. And David, I'll see you in about two seconds in our next ZOOM meeting. Okay, Bye, everyone.

Have a good weekend. Thank you. Bye. Bye.