Brave Biz Lab 2024 04 19

Said you shall not pass.

Oh.

Luna. Luna. You're kicked out if you're in a bark. Hi, how are you?

Good. How are you? I'm good.

She's hearing other dogs barking and she's like half asleep.

She's gonna.

Lazy. Anyway. Happy Friday.

Happy Friday. Why my screen is not getting bigger.

Happy Friday.

No.

Hello, Yvonne. I like your necklace.

Thank you.

Pretty.

Yeah.

I'm sorry, what? On the stone.

Oh. I'm gonna reconnect again. Okay.

Yvonne, what are you celebrating today? Oh, you're quiet all of a sudden. You muted yourself.

Okay, can you hear me now?

Yeah, I can hear you now.

I am celebrating that today is my very last day in corporate. I'm taking the leap.

All worked out. What was that?

I said I'm taking a leap and diving off the deep end.

I'm so excited for you. You too were able to figure out your severance?

Yeah, it was a whole ordeal, but I'm good. I feel good about it energetically. It feels good.

Okay. Amazing. Awesome. Awesome. Well, what questions do you have today?

I actually do have a question for you again, probably in the advanced portion, but so before. Actually, I guess I have two questions.

Yeah.

Before I even started with you, I'd hired somebody to redo my website. And so at some point I. I want us to do some review of the copy on that.

Okay.

But my, my actual first question is as part of that, I got a membership to Mailer Light as the email and I was curious, what, what do you use? Is there any ones better than others? I've also seen flow desk would look which looks pretty fancy. So I'm just kind of.

Yeah.

So early on, here's what I recommend is find the one that is most intuitive for you to use that is the cheapest.

Yeah.

Right. So like, let's not like, the thing that matters is that you have a place where you can capture the lead.

Yeah.

Get, you know, their permission to email them and email them, you know, and then as you grow, as you get closer to like a thousand subscribers on your email list, then we want to start looking, looking at, you know, what's going to be the best bang for your buck. But don't, don't stress about like, what's the best thing right now. You don't need the best thing. You need the easiest thing.

Yeah. My, my computer froze. Can you kick me out? And then I will try to log back in because.

Okay, I'm removing you. Oh, wait, wait, wait. But it won't let. So if I remove you, it won't let you rejoin, it'll. It'll flag you as a problem.

Yeah.

Why don't, why don't you restart your computer?

I'm trying. Still not managing to. Okay, I'll try now. Okay. Thank you. Okay.

Yeah, I don't want anyone to not be able to rejoin, but yeah, no, go for Lauren. Lit actually uses Mailerlite as well.

So I.

She seems to be very happy with it.

Yeah.

I just have to spend some time to actually learn it.

Yeah.

But I figured if you were like, oh, no, something else. And I'm not going to waste my time learning it. If there, there was something else that was.

Right, right, right, right.

The nice thing with Mailer Light is up to a thousand subscribers.

It is free, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. And that's with a lot of them. Honestly, whenever it comes to something like, you know, your email marketing system, your website, you know, finding the one that's most intuitive to you is what matters the most. Because I could say, like, WIX is the best thing, but if it's. If it's not intuitive to you, that doesn't really help you, you know?

Yeah.

But YouTube University, honestly, is the best because all these sites are also updating all the time and they want you to invest in basically their help desk service. Right, right. And then also you can always find a virtual assistant who can just help you set things up in the beginning.

Yeah, that's a good idea.

Yeah.

Awesome. You're putting it all together though. That's fabulous.

Do you.

What's your website? Right now?

It's my name, Yvonne Leehawkins dot com.

Okay.

It actually looks pretty fancy. I haven't done anything with it since the developer. Like, it came with all kinds of bells and whistles, including Mailer Light, including a freebie, like all the things.

Awesome.

I just. The big part that I'm going to have to do now is one, maintain it, update it, and learn how to use the functions.

Yeah.

I built my own website six years ago, but this stuff moves so fast. Right. That I never kept up with it and I forgot more than I know.

Yeah. This is beautiful. I mean, I mean, right off the bat, the thing that I would want added in here, that is that you work specifically with HR professionals.

Yeah.

You know my title page, but that doesn't show up anywhere unless you send the link to somebody. So. Yeah, I gotta add that.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's. It's beautifully done.

Yeah.

Awesome. Hi, David. Hi, Monica. Welcome. Okay, so we're celebrating Yvonne's last day in corporate today. Who else has A celebration for the week.

I booked a 15 minutes potential call, which I have a question about as well.

Yeah, absolutely. We'll absolutely get there. Okay. So you booked a 15 minute call with a potential client.

Yes. Awesome.

Awesome. Okay, we'll. We'll absolutely jump on that. Who else wants to celebrate something? Monica is celebrating being back home. I am sick and have no voice. Okay, no worries. So we'll just look to you. Look to see what you have to say in the chat then. I'm sorry you're not feeling well, but glad you're back home. David, what about you?

I.

What am I celebrating? I. Oh, I made an offer. My. My offer to a new associate was accepted.

Amazing.

Starting the second week in May.

Awesome. Awesome. Congratulations.

Yeah, I really need it. I need more help, which is great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I mean, all like. It's just. It just keeps growing.

Yeah. Go back and forth between, like jumping up and down and I'm like, what the. Like.

Sounds about right. Yeah.

Awesome.

All right, well, I know, I know Dina has a question. Why don't we dive into that one first and then whatever questions everyone else has, we'll dive into as well.

The.

Dina, what's the question about your 15 minute call?

So I approached a CEO that posted a vacancy for his asset management company in Lithuania for IR Manager. And that was, if you remember, last week I already approached two Israeli companies with the same idea. They have an IR vacancy. And I'm trying to. I asked them if they would be open to outsource it. Yeah.

For everyone else. IR is investment relations.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

So I. I invest relations in Lithuania is very premature. Like there is no agencies at all that do that profession. And there are. I mean, there are absolutely no experts in the field. And I know because I worked in that market. Mm. I. So I didn't. I decided. I know that 15 minutes is not a sales call. So the way I formatted it in my mind and I wanted to check it with you was that I would. I promised him that it will be via LinkedIn. Just a short call. My mission was to ask whether he would be even open to the idea of outsourcing that. And. And try not to bombard him with information, but ask him and simply tell him that with my Expertise and experience 14 years in IR, in house and as outsource. Yeah. And now expanding into strategy, I realize that it's much more economically viable and just like I said, operational, etc. To. For him to be. You know, why. So. Yeah, I wanted advice.

Yeah. So.

Okay.

First and foremost, so whenever we're thinking about getting on a sales call with someone, even if it's like a short little, like, is this even a thing? Who do we want to make it about them? Exactly. We always want to make it about them. So what I would start with is, hey, I had this idea for you. I saw that you're listing for. For an IR role, and I was curious, you know, I have an idea that might be more economically viable for you, but I'm curious, what, what are the goals you're hoping to reach with this role? You know, what are the challenges you're hoping to overcome with this role, with someone in this role? Right. Because, I mean, if he's thinking, oh, well, this will be a paper. A paper pusher kind of person who's going to be shoving out, like, updates to people, like, that's not something that you're going to be interested in.

No.

Right.

Secretary. And this is what a lot of people make out of this role. A fancy.

Yeah. But you can say, you know, what, what objectives are you hoping this role will support you.

You.

The business in, you know, and like, what are the qualities you're looking for? Because you can absolutely bring someone in house, but, you know, oftentimes the person that you're going to bring in house isn't necessarily going to know, like, have this much experience, you know, so you want to get him to say, here are all the big goals we have for the business and here's kind of what we were hoping the role would be.

Okay. And then I can say, and that, that is the part when I say, okay, so based obviously on what he says. Depends on what he's actually going to say. Say, well, actually, I have a solution or an offer that might be of interest because. Yeah.

So here's, here's what we want to ask for consent, right?

To set a separate call for the sales call. That's the same.

Let me, let me finish. Here's where we want to ask for consent is we want to say, are you open to a different way of looking at this?

Okay.

You know, because like, you, you going in and just trying to convince him. I mean, you've dated men before, right? You've been around men before. How do they take it when they tell. When you tell them, oh, actually, you need this.

That's what. Yeah.

No offense, David. And not just men, like people who are in power, who, like, are in charge. It's actually, it questions their ability to run things if you're telling them, actually, you need this thing. Because who the are you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Undercutting, like, their ability to run their whole. Their whole ship.

Yeah, definitely.

Don't use the word, actually. To open.

Yeah, to use.

Don't use the word, actually, you need this.

Ah. Actually, you need this. Not to use.

Don't use it. Don't use it. Don't say actually.

Oh, really? Okay.

Because it's a correction. It's. It's a. You're wrong. I'm right, actually.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So it's that.

Yeah.

So are you open to look. Yeah. So are you.

Are you open to, like, different options here? Because I can think of something that might actually that might be, you know, cheaper for you in the long run and get you better results.

Okay. Okay. And if. If he says yes. Yeah.

Then you'd say, well, you know, part of what I do for my clients is I step in and I help them create a whole strategy around this, and I train their people that they already have in their business who already understand the business how to do this better. And when you do this better, you are able to get more funding. You're able to keep investors happy for longer. You know, any new initiatives that you're wanting to raise more money for, you have an easier time with it. You know, you just list off the benefits when they have a really solid investor relations strategy.

McKay. And if.

If you're interested in. In learning more, let's set up a separate time to talk through what your needs actually are. And this is the only time you're going to use the word actually, like what your needs actually are.

Yeah.

You know, within the business. And I can put together a proposal for you if. If it makes sense to do this within your business, and then you can say. And if it doesn't at the end of that call, if it doesn't, then what I can do is I can put out kind of a. A call to action to my network and see if there's a candidate that I already know that I vetted who's looking for a role like this. So then. Then it's mutually beneficial for him to get on this call with you because you're. You're either going to give him the option of a.

Of a.

Of a solution that's going to be cheaper and more effective, or if it's not a fit for both of you, you'll be expediting that whole hiring process for him.

Okay. Wow. But I don't know anyone who would fit yet.

Well, you can ask. You're not guaranteeing that you're going to fill the position, but you're saying I can absolutely put out a. An email to my network asking.

Okay, okay. Put out. Okay, okay. This is brilliant.

Yeah. You want it to be. You want it to be about him. You want it to be about his goals, and you want to just, you know, ask for consent. You know, are you open to a new. A new perspective on this or a new way to look at solving this problem? If he's not. If he's like, no, we're just hiring for this, do you want the job or not? Like, then you can say, oh, well, no, that's not what I do. But, you know, you're like, he's not going to listen unless you ask for permission to give him another option.

Okay, okay. Ask permission to give another option. Yeah, okay. Okay. Wow. Thank you so much.

Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, pray for me.

Good on you for reaching out this way.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So that was. Yeah, I reached to the two Israelis and that thought was already in my mind for a long time. Finally. Finally.

Yeah. You know, actually, Dina and David, you guys might want to connect at some point because you have similar client bases.

We did.

Oh, you did. Okay, cool. Okay, good. Okay. But yeah, anytime. A question about the signing contracts. Katie has a fancy Sign now app. Is that necessary for me now? Are there other options? I was sent. I sent as a Word doc. Okay. So I, I like Sign Now. It's very intuitive to set up. It is very cheap also, and it has a good, like, user experience because you literally just click through. We don't actually want to send contracts out as Word docs. I. I'm sure it's fine in this, but just I want you to notice, like, someone could very easily go and edit the language and then sign it if someone's being shady. So whenever, if you did send it out as a word doc, I want you to read it before you sign it because they can go in and edit it if you're going to send it at all. You want it to be a PDF so it's not editable. But I know, like, like DocuSign is an option. I know Dropbox now has a signing option. Find the thing that's going to be most intuitive for you to use and easy for your clients. And cheapest Sign now is the reason is the cheapest option that I like. Honestly, it's okay.

We.

We all make first client.

Oops.

DocuSign actually, I think is free for like certain number per Month or something.

Yeah.

And then you, you know, upgrade as needed. But it's also very easy. Also, everyone knows it. People have a DocuSign account.

Right.

I. I was using Adobe, I just switched DocuSign. But they're all basically the same.

Yeah.

The other thing is if somebody, if you send. Even if you send a PDF, somebody can doctor it. And what those apps like DocuSign do, or they're encrypting it, and so it actually is much more secure. So in addition to being easier to use, it's all of those apps, they're using an encryption that's tied to your email. So it's. It's much, much more difficult to. For someone to kind of edit it or play games with it.

Right. Yeah. It's also like, you can show the receipts better if ever there's a legal issue.

Right.

You know, because there's like, there's timestamps and there's. They go with the. Not the vpn, but, you know, the IP address.

Yeah.

You know, so don't have a contract in place and nothing. Oh, my God. Well, that's a good problem to worry about.

Yeah. Yeah. But you do want to get it. You do want to put something together sooner rather than later. Because what tends to happen when you don't have that stuff set up is you're on a sales call and you're like, they might say, yes.

Yeah, yeah, I have.

I have to put this together and.

I have to put this.

And then you start stressing about that and then you tank the whole sales call because you're, you're panicked about all the stuff that you need to do.

I had on a simple document that I like, three points, but it's not good. I need to have a legal document.

For the companies that you're going to be working with. I would highly recommend it.

Okay. So, David, can I ask, like, obviously, I want to pay.

I'm not licensed in Israel.

You do.

I'm not licensed in Israel. But. But what? I would say that especially.

Sorry.

If you're doing business internationally, it's more important because you have no idea about Lithuanian law. I also don't know anything about Lithuanian law. And you want it to not be your problem. And so you'd want to make sure that anything you're doing, like the contract would say, you know, this transaction is taking place in Israel. And so you don't have to worry about any, Any issues where you just. You find yourself dealing with Lithuanian anything. So. Yeah. So just talk to a lawyer in. On your end and make sure that it's, it's like it's an Israeli enforceable contract.

Right. Even for the Lithuanian clients. Because I know that for Lithuanians they always put this as per the Lithuanian law. Yeah. And it's exactly. Yeah. So if I want to become the first IRA investor relations agency in Lithuania, maybe I should, because there is the vat. If I'm in Israel, they're not applicable. I mean, they don't need to pay me VAT because they're in.

That's exactly the conversation you need to have with an Israeli lawyer. Because I don't know. And you don't know what would be involved in that. Could you function out of Lithuania? Great. And if you do, how does that affect income you get in Israel and how do you protect your assets in Israel? Those are. You're asking the right questions, but you need to have that conversation with a lawyer in Israel who can, who can walk you through that. But you're on the right track.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, fingers crossed. Yeah.

You're gonna get it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But for anyone who's in the States, David can help you.

Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.

Open up your affiliate in New York.

What other questions do we have today?

I'll go.

Yes.

Tips, best practices for like team meetings. I. So my team has been growing, which is a great thing. And one of the things that I am finding is a stretch for me is managing a team and you know, basically juggling the roles of manager, supervisor, mentor, lawyer. And so I've been pushing myself to have more all hands calls, like regular short calls where we check in with each other, but kind of winging it and it's not. Anyway, I'm just curious ideas, best practices strategies. Like how often do you, do you meet with, with your team? Do you meet with like everyone at once? Like how is it formal? Is there an agenda? Is it more just check in?

I mean, it depends. And of course like my, my business is a little different because I'm the only one who's client facing. Right, right.

So.

And it depends on like what the purpose of the meeting is. Right. So if it's all hands, where you're kind of just touching base on all of the cases that are going on and what's coming up and planning session, you know, you want to go in with that expectation and also the expectation that everyone has to have up to date notes on the cases that they're handling and then you give everyone a chance to a, like give updates. I would also set the expectation that everyone needs to come with at least three questions or that they're asking everyone else, like, what would you do here? Or does anyone know a clerk in this office who can help me expedite this thing? Whatever.

Right.

You know, because that way it opens the door for anyone who is nervous about asking the question because they don't want to seem dumb. You know, like, it opens the door for them to ask those questions. And it has to be a minimum. Like you have to tell people, ask a minimum of three questions.

You know, we having people basically present their cases that they're working on to get ideas, kind of just talk through it.

Yeah.

And I'm also practicing because I. I'm in a transition. I had an associate that left, and now I'm bringing in someone new. And so currently the. The lawyers on my team are more senior, they're working more independently. But I want to get into practice because when I bring in someone who's junior, it's going to be much even more important. So, like, you know, to show, you know, here's how we talk about cases, here's how you can learn, ask questions.

Y.

But yeah, yeah, I would also say, because you have currently, what, four men and one woman.

Yeah.

It's going to be really important for you to start setting the culture so.

That Sarah doesn't end up taking notes for everyone.

Yeah, that is one part, but it's not. What I was going to go with is whatever she contributes, you underline it and say, that's. That's a great point.

Got it.

You know, because what can happen, and it happens all the time, is men hear a woman speak and then they jump in and try to explain it, and then they try to take the idea for it.

Right.

You know, so you want to.

Especially when you have a room of all litigators.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so you want to start setting that expectation that you start. You know, that that doesn't happen. Right, right. That's.

I didn't think about that.

Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, she should not be the one taking notes. You could do also do like a round robin of who's taking notes.

Yeah, actually, I had my. So we met in person and my VA remoted in.

Oh, great.

And so he was taking notes. So that's. I. I like. I like that precedent.

Oh, yeah. Do that then.

That was very helpful.

Yeah. And then I would. And so I always, like, also when you're doing a team meeting where everyone's covering everything, like, if there are any questions that don't. That have nothing to do with that, you have a parking lot. Like we put those questions in the parking lot and we either deal with them at the end of the meeting or we deal with them offline.

Right.

Because you know, you have adhd, it's really easy for things to like go off the rails and like have a side conversation. And all of a sudden this hour long meeting has taken two hours. People are pissed, they're late for stuff. Someone had to leave early before they had all their questions answered, all the things. Right.

That makes a lot of sense.

So whenever someone asks a question that's like not necessarily about the cases that you're covering, you say, awesome, let's add that question to the parking lot.

Right.

Not dismissive, it's just cool. We're going to, we're going to get to that next.

Yeah, no, I like that.

Right. And then I would also have everyone take, I mean your VA can do this, but also anyone who needs to do a follow up item.

Yeah.

Or they need to follow up with a specific team member. Like they're setting up. Like I need to set a call with Sarah about this to get her 2 cents. I need to set up a time with David to do this.

Got it. That makes sense. You know, those are good ideas.

Yeah.

And you could even make like a template of like, you know, like almost like a templated form that people have to fill out before the, before the meeting.

Like an agenda kind of.

But it's like almost like a worksheet that they have to fill out.

Oh, got it. So I did, I did put it to, to do for everyone like the day before to like spend an hour, go through your ClickUp and your to dos so that we don't spend the first 15 minutes of everyone checking off the things that like they already did. Yeah, yeah. I'll get better at it. I'm forced myself to get into the practice.

Yeah.

Very hard for me to do things that I know are inefficient and. But the first couple of meetings is going to be inefficient and it's going to feel unhelpful and I need to just tell myself that so I don't get impatient and start throwing things.

Yeah. But also, you know, it's totally, totally doable for you to say, okay, cool. The first 30 minutes of this meeting, everyone's going through and filling out this worksheet. Everyone is going through and figuring this stuff out because they're accountable at that point. Like they have to be in the meeting anyway.

Right. I like that. Actually it's also.

Because then also it's not. It doesn't create that dynamic of, oh, fudge, I didn't do it. And then it's like they have to do it anyway. And then it's.

It.

You know, people don't get everything done right. So you literally just show. I mean, there's a company that does that where, like, they have a memo or like the meeting notes or something before the meeting starts. And when you get there, like, no one starts the meeting. Everyone's reading this thing.

Right. You just build that in instead of make it. Because if you do it day before, then half people will do it, half people won't, and then not even half.

Of them will do it. Not even Amazon does that with white.

Papers because everyone's too busy to read it. And so if you go right into Discussion, Mo Most 90% of the people are bullshitting.

No idea what you're talking about. Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

They're like, yeah, I really agree with X point because it's like the one point that they read. Does that help? I would start there and then. And then also you can check in with the team from time to time and say, cool. Is there anything we're not covering these meetings that we need to, like, build a framework around?

Yeah, no, I like that. I like that. Okay. Yeah, I feel good about that.

Yeah.

Cool. Awesome. Great question. What are the questions do we have today?

I'm glad Monica asked the DocuSign question because that was one of mine that I forgot to ask, but.

Right. Covered it. Yeah.

Yeah.

Having and having those stuff, those things set up before you get on sales calls is honestly the best because you're not stressed about it while you're on the sales call. You just know it's all ready, you can do it. It's good to go.

I have a question.

Yeah, Gina?

Actually, the Google Doc that you have sent doesn't show track changes, but maybe I'm. I'm not looking at the right version.

So I usually do that so you can copy and paste it out, but that way everyone can see it without anyone else going and editing it for you. Because it's, you know, it's a way for everyone to learn based on, like, what you've written and the feedback that.

I'm giving, but I don't see the changes. I'm sorry, so you don't see the.

Comments on the side?

No, I need to see the comments.

Yeah. Because I did comments on the side. You don't see those.

Okay, so I didn't. Ah, no, how do I see that? Okay, so probably I need to press something here.

Here. I'm going to share my. Let you share your screen so I can see what you're seeing. I want to make sure I'm sharing this correctly.

Okay, How do I share?

So the green button at the bottom.

Okay. Didn't expand. Sorry. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Can you see my screen?

It's coming. So this isn't the Google Doc. This is a Word document.

Yeah, this is the one. Okay.

Oh, you can't see it. Okay, that's my fault. Let me see. How do I change that? Okay, can you refresh your page now and just see if that worked? That's so weird. Let me change it again.

Now your current is signed. Ah, maybe because I'm signed. Oh, now I see it.

You see it.

Okay, because it's again, I think going to my personal email. Okay, now I see it. Okay, I will look into that. And one last question. Is the objectives or framework in my. Here.

My.

Yeah, the questions here. Here it is. So they ultimately want clear objectives to reach their vision relevant products. So instead they actually use this word, clear objectives.

But who used it? Were the.

It.

Was it the ones that aren't your ideal clients or was it your ideal client?

Ideal client.

Okay.

Yeah, some of them used framework.

Okay. And is this how they're talking to their friends?

Well, so this specific client, she works with the okr, which is setting objectives.

Let me re. Ask the question. When they're bitching to their spouse about work, are they saying, I want clear objectives to this, this and this?

Good question. I don't know. Cool.

Like if you're not sure, don't use it. Because what we're looking for is the language that other people will understand. Like, because that's what they're hearing from the person who's your ideal client. Because what? Like when you make it too specific to your ideal client, when you use the language that they will only use with someone like you like that, like you have to like really hope that they're the one that's seeing your email, that they're the one that's seeing your post. Because their friends, the people who kind of know what they do, but don't really know what they do, are going to have no fucking idea that you could help their people. It's going to.

Is actually a good word because I hear it all the time. Instead of strategy, they use framework. Definitely not a plan.

Okay.

Yeah. And definitely.

Is that what they're saying to their friends? Is that what they're Saying to, like, their college buddies, I need a framework for this.

They would say strategy, but then strategy is too big and too vague as well.

It might be vague for you, but is it vague for them?

Yeah, that's the point.

Might be objectively vague, but that's how they use the term, because those little nuances really matter.

Yeah, so they would say strategy. Yeah.

So say strategy.

Say strategy.

Yeah.

Okay.

How they would see it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So I had the strategy in my previous versions. I thought it was a. No. No. Okay, Now I get it.

Yeah. And it's like, you know, I don't know, because I'm not your ideal client, so you really have to go off of how are they talking about their problems to all the people who either work in the business or don't work in the business?

Yeah.

My own problem with strategy, I mean, I'm a strategist. Just that Sometimes people, especially CEOs, they're allergic when they see somebody else using that term because they think, well, it's such a big word.

But it's how they. It's. It's. It's their meaning. So what word would they use?

Well, now I'm too much again in my head. I don't. Yeah, I feel. Okay.

This is the point of doing the interviews.

Yes, yes.

Right. You're gonna find out, like, what terms they use. You only have one person you've interviewed who's your ideal client. So this is gonna be hard right now.

Yeah. Okay, I see. I see it. Okay. So for now. For now, I should go with framework and.

No, for now, if they're not using the term framework, you need to go with strategy.

Okay. Okay, got it. And the rest is fine, right?

The rest is fine.

And it's. It's.

It's fine for right now. And it's going to change, and it's going to change, and it's going to change.

Okay.

Thank you. An analogy, Dina. I. When I was doing market research interviews, I found that when I changed the. The, like, really basic terms, like entrepreneur versus founder versus business owner versus small business owner, those in my mind are like four interchangeable words that just describe somebody who is doing the thing. Right. Radically different. Radically different audiences.

Yeah.

Like a founder. Here's one thing. Entrepreneur. A business owner doesn't think of themselves as an entrepreneur. I could get hung up on, like, objectively. But you are that. You should be. That's great. But for marketing, no one cares. It's all about, like, the way. So if somebody thinks of themselves as a small Business owner, marketing to them as a founder is gonna, they're gonna think I'm talking about someone else.

Yeah, I totally agree with you.

Those terms are not like, Those terms are extremely inexact. Right. It's not about what they mean. It's not about like. But this really is a strategy. It's irrelevant when you're marketing. The only thing that matters is what they identify with and the words they use. Even if it's inexact, even if it's like, not technically correct.

Yep. This is what happened to me on the call on Wednesday with Katie. This is like mind blowing. And you know, I, I don't know if you've seen my post, but I was, I, I did a video about strategy is a theory. How does that make you feel? Comfortable or not? And I, for two days, Katie, couldn't stop laughing about myself with my sister and my sons. Strategy is a theory. Who cares? Yeah, I get it now. I get it.

Welcome to the rest of your life. The rest of your life will be you looking at last year's stuff and be like, what the was I thinking?

Yeah.

And like, it's still like, it'll happen 10 years from now. You'll look at stuff from two years before. You'll be like, oh my God, I can't believe I posted that. How cringe. Yeah. Welcome to the rest of your life, everyone.

Days.

While I go back in my content on LinkedIn to like try to repurpose. I go back a couple of years to see if something I haven't recycled and I am such like a cringy perfectionist that I find those posts, we're talking like from a year ago, two years ago, three years ago. And I go edit it because it just annoys the shit out of me. I'll just see, I'll just like quickly edit it. Like that's a ridiculous phrase. That's a typo. Literally known. What? There's no possible way for anyone to ever come across a 10 month old LinkedIn post, let alone two years. Literally never. Not Google. Boom. No one. It doesn't get shown that way. It's just like, it's there and I'm like, what if somebody, what if an ideal client binges my content and gets like two years in and, and sees a typo and thinks I'm an idiot.

Yep. And guess what? I recorded a video and saying I'm doing market research and I'm interviewing 50 liters, but the caption says 50 liters. Like that's a lot of.

That's A well hydrated. I want well hydrated leaders.

And Leah Turner liked my post and I cannot delete it now.

And I want to just. Everyone, this, this story about how that went wrong is a post in itself. Oh, you could totally be like, I had such a funny, embarrassing mistake happen on my video. The whole video was me asking like 50 people who are leaders DF interview them about X, Y and Z. But I wasn't paying attention. And when I had autocad leaders as in liters of water. So just to clarify, like, water cannot be interviewed, you know?

And also, it seems very mystical. I feel like there's like.

Yeah, exactly. It's like you're an AI will not.

Take over the world anytime soon.

I know. Like, you're not an oracle scrying in the water. Right?

You're. Wow. Yes. Yes.

You can write a whole funny. And then you can ask as a, as an engagement question, like, what's an embarrassing mistake that's happened in your content?

Oh my God. Okay. Well, thank you. That's brilliant. Yeah, that's. That's my post for my. For Tuesday or Monday.

And I know exactly what I'll do because my whole post yesterday about up publicly, I had so many typos in there, I had to go, like, just grammatically incorrect things that like wasn't even autocorrect. You know, autocorrect fault. It was my fault.

I'm just imagining David waking up at like three in the morning going, oh my God. That post from August 22, 2022.

That'S like a very slight hyperbole. That's like very minor exaggeration you have going on there. I. The random shit that I remember. Yeah.

Oh, by the way, maybe. I mean, I'm still struggling with my book reading skills and I, I am, I'm so. I didn't do any progress. I read five pages in one day. So. And it's a pain for me because it's very important for my work. What.

What makes it important for your work?

So I started this book called Play to Win by Roger Martin, and I adopted his model, but I didn't read his book. So how does that, how is that going to work?

I mean, do you know the model?

Yeah, I mean, it's very simple, but it's in many situations it's much more complicated. So I need to read his book in order to be able to, to take any given case and to be able to break it down in that way and practice. I mean, I need more. I need to know more meet data Science behind it. It's like, I like intuitively, this is the. What I got. The more. I mean, it totally got it with the first time I came across. So this is why I'm so passionate about it. But obviously I need to read it and. Yeah.

I mean.

Yes.

And also you can take the basis of that framework and make your own framework.

Which I am. Well, yeah, I hope.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean. I mean, I honestly don't think it matters that much really.

Okay.

I mean, I think it matters to be an expert in what you do and like to. To be able to point to other thought leaders in the space and be like, cool, here's their framework and here's how it. Like they're here. Their philosophy on X, Y and Z. But is that stopping you from getting clients?

Well, now, I don't know. No, I don't think that that's the main thing that stops me, but I think it's. It's for my own confidence, I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I mean, like, if it's five pages a day, great.

Okay.

Honestly, you know, there's. There's a whole philosophy around how we actually learn. Like, if you really want to learn something, don't just read it. Like literally transcribe every word.

Yeah. This is.

Read it and write it down. And you can't do that. You're like, you'll be able to do two pages a day and who gives a fuck? Who gives a fuck if it takes that long? There's.

There's no one.

There's no client out there that's gonna be like, how many pages do you read a day of X, Y and Z books? Like, no.

Yeah, because I have. My head is exploding with ideas when I read that book. This is why it takes me a long time. Yeah. But there are no other tips.

I mean, one thing that I do to. Is one, either switch to audio, but often books that I'm really trying to learn, I do both. And like, at least with Kindle, there's an ability where you can listen and read at the same time. And that actually helps me retain a lot. Because I'm a visual reader, I'm actually not an auditory. Like for entertainment. I can listen, but if I'm learning, it's not that effective. But if I'm listening and reading, it's.

Like, I tried, but yeah, I'll try it again.

Yeah.

And so maybe can. What if I say to myself that I don't need to make notes, I just listen? Because I can always go back and read.

You can always Go back.

Yeah. Okay. Okay, I'll try.

Yeah, the nice thing, too, if you're, like, on a digital, you can highlight sections and then go back to it later and reread that section. I mean, you can do the same thing in a physical book, right?

Like, yeah, just.

Just underline it for now. Leave it there.

Mm.

Also, you know, I think a lot of us get hung up on I have to read the whole book cover to cover. Not really. Like, if you can. Hi. If you can figure out which chapters have important bits you can go through and you can kind of skim for. Where is he explaining this part of the framework?

Yeah. Yes. Before my workshop with my recent client friend, I just told myself, just open the book in any page and read it. So maybe that's the information that you need for today. This is how I. That was my approach. And. And, yeah, it really helped me. So. Yeah, but I need to. I'm really, like, strong on discipline.

Yeah. How many pages is the book?

250. Cool.

So that's 250 days of content. You do one page a day. You get an idea from that one page, and that's your content for the day.

Yeah, but I want to finish with that task because it's like.

Yeah, yeah. So here's the thing. Like, sometimes when we have something that we really want to do, we create all these rules around, like, what's the right way to do it and what's the best way to do it? And, oh, no, I didn't stick with the plan. Now I fail. And now it feels icky to go back to that thing because you just failed at it. And it's like, oh, I don't want to fail again. Like, failure feels really bad, even if it's something that really ultimately doesn't matter.

Okay.

You know, so, like. Like, I would say, like, throw the rules out of how this is supposed to look.

Okay.

You know, check in with yourself and say, cool. Like, what do I feel called to do today? Do I feel called to, like, listen to. To this for 30 minutes? Do I feel called to going and transcribing two pages worth? Do I feel called to just opening it to a random page and. And letting it inspire me, whatever comes up?

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Will do. Thank you so much.

Yeah. You know, like, I don't want you using up executive function energy to do something like this that really, ultimately isn't going to make the difference in getting you clients. Right. And also, like, you have 14 fucking years of experience. Why. Why are you basing all of your credibility off the fucking book.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You had no idea what you were doing. If you were just coming into this being like, you know, I, I used to work at a grocery store bagging groceries, and now I want to get into investor relations. I'd be like, yeah, you need to read some fucking books. You need to figure out what you're doing, but you're not that you know what you're doing. Just because someone out there has created a framework like Whoopi do for them, but it doesn't mean that you need to understand every single part of their framework to be able to be effective in how you help clients.

A lot of. Well, what I think is that many in strategy heavily rely on models. So when I say I use that model, I see people's reaction like they're relaxed that I'm using somebody else's model. This is why.

Yeah, you also get to, I mean it, you get to use your own model, you know.

Absolutely. Yes, absolutely.

Jump in. It sounds like you, it sounds like you might be using a model to just to quench your own, your own imposter syndrome. Like, models are great and using, but like, you should be using a model because it helps your client, not because it gives you legitimacy. Yeah, you're the legitimacy.

Yeah, like there are a bunch of models completely useless. I mean, this is, I, I see that all the time, by the way.

So, yeah, there's also that. And I used to do this when I was writing papers for school is I would take like note cards or post its and I would basically like map out on a wall. You know, here's, here's one portion of the argument. And then I would, I would take like a post it and I would write notes from books and like write the page number in the book and I would put it in that category. And then I would do the same, like for each, each bit of my argument for my paper, you know, and then as I was getting towards the end, I would be like, okay, cool. So I take everything down from one category and I'd try to put it together in a format and then I would just write my paper based on.

That.

You know, but like, you could absolutely, like use a whole wall with post it notes and, and note cards and just like, as you're learning stuff, put it up there, you know, so as you're talking about different parts of the model, like you're just adding information to it so you don't have to worry about following in a linear way. You're Just kind of, like jumping in and out of the things that are interesting to you any given day.

Yeah. I have to say that even now, I mean, I feel bad that I'm taking a lot of your time, so I need to, like, get rid of. Rid of those.

Yeah, yeah.

We.

Yeah, I mean, it's. That's why there's no apology apologizing for taking up time or space. Right. You know, who else faces, like, a fear that, like, you're not legitimate enough or, like, that you need to refer to a proper model to be able to be, you know, someone that people pay big money for?

Monica. Yeah.

Yeah. You're not alone. You're not alone. And also, like, full permission here to go make up your own fucking model. Right. And to borrow concepts, you obviously want to credit them back. Borrow concepts from other people who are in your space, but, you know, it gets to be your model, too.

Here's the thing that was super freeing to me. I learned this a few years ago. I feel, like, too late. We should tell this to every kid. Like, even the people who you look up to the most, they're making it up. They are. They're completely making it up. And. And even a model, it works some of the time, but it doesn't work in every case.

Right.

They're literally making it up based on what they've seen, what's worked for them, what experience. It doesn't work for everyone.

Yep.

And so you making something up will work for people like you who have experiences like you. And that's okay because other people's models won't necessarily work for them.

Yeah.

You probably shouldn't do this on an actual sales call, but I bet my house that if you just invented a model on a sales call and said, like, this is what I do, and you said it confidently enough, your client would be impressed.

Yeah.

Like, it's just about how you sell it.

Yeah. My God. Yeah.

Here's your homework for the weekend. Here's everyone's homework for the weekend. Actually go and make up a model. It can be a model that you follow in your work. It could be a model for, like, how you meal plan for the week. It could be a model for something absolutely random, like Dragon training. Okay. But show yourself that you can actually come up with some kind of model that's plug and play.

I don't know even. I don't know where to begin. I mean, where.

Just start, like. Yeah, but, like, just make something up. It doesn't even have to be relevant to your business. What's your model for cleaning your house. What's your model for running errands? What's your model for.

What's my model? To read a book?

Yeah, exactly.

Okay.

I'll actually do this homework, too, because I'm actually thinking that that would be kind of fun. We'll all do that, and next Friday we'll check in on it. All right. Okay. Final question, and then we'll go into main takeaways. Who wants to. No, final question.

I'll go. Advice for turning away clients nicely when they're not the right fit for you. And you figure it out. Like, 10 seconds into the call, and I get into these situations where I just feel, like, compelled, for lack of a better word, to, like, go through the rest of the call and, like, ask my questions, and then I end up, like, giving a lot of free advice out of guilt.

I'm going to stop you here. What makes them not a fit.

If, like, they're. If they don't have. If they're not looking to spend money, if they, like, have no idea of what they're talking about? If they are, You know, it's a good question. I don't really know. I just. I have enough, like, subconscious heuristics that I use and that I am usually right. And I go through the call, and then I'm like, It's been like, 45 minutes. Because it always goes over, because they always take up the most time, and it's like I just irritated. But I don't want to be a dick. I want to, like, be helpful.

Yeah. So, I mean, I'm going to stop you here, and that's what you're going to say. That's exactly what you're going to say, is, hey, you know, I'm going to stop you here. I'm actually getting the immediate impression that we're not going to be the right fit to work together.

Right.

It's, you know, if they are the right client. It's kind of a takeaway. Like, I actually, like, don't know if we're going to be the right fit to work together. Right. And you can say, you know, give me. Give me three sentences that boils down your problem and what. What help you think you need.

Right.

You know, give them that, like, that final bit and say, yeah, you know what? Like, based on what you're telling me, I don't think I'm going to be able to help you with this.

Yeah. In the back of my mind, I'm still like, it doesn't matter how much Business I have coming in, I still, like, part of me is, well, even if I can't help them, and even if they never hire me, maybe I'll make a good impression and, like, one day they'll think of me like that.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Yeah, but there are so many ways to give a good impression.

Yeah.

Right. Like you saying you're not going to waste my fucking time and that you can't help me. That gives me a really good impression. Like, what are you trying to do? Get my money? Like, regardless, like, why are you, like, they're going to be in their minds, like, why are you on the phone with me for this long? You know? And also, based on what they tell you, it doesn't mean you can't go on for another five minutes and point them in the right direction.

Right. Let's do it earlier on in the conversation.

Yeah. And it just, like, you just get to be a little more assertive.

Right.

You know, I'm gonna stop you here.

It's a good line.

Yeah.

Because you just did it and it didn't feel like you were being attacked. Thank you.

Right. Thank you. I, I, it is my, my life's goal to just do things without being a dick.

I don't like the line. I'm gonna stop you here. I don't know why.

Well, let me interrupt here then. Let me interrupt you. Let me jump in here. Yeah, let me jump in. There are so many ways to say it. Like, you know, let's, let's pause here. Let's pause on that, what you just said, because based on what you're telling me, I don't know that we're going to be the right fit to work together. Why don't we do this? Give me three sentences that boils down what you think your problem is or what you think the problem is. You know. You know, the intake form. You know, questions also can help you kind of determine what this is, David.

Yeah.

You know, right?

I'm getting better at it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I go through any, any sales calls I have coming up, and if I, the questions obviously show me they're not going to be a fit, I email them and say, you know, based on what you're telling me in the intake form, I don't think we're going to be a fit to work together. So I'm going to go ahead and cancel the call. I'm like, please keep me updated on, you know, your progress, though, because I'm still cheering you on. I'm still in your corner and And I hope I. I wish the best for you.

That's a really good idea. For some reason, I feel compelled to take sales calls. And until you just mention that, it didn't occur to me that that's a very weird way to run a business.

Yeah.

Like, I. My calendly is out there, and literally, I have given the entire world permission to take up 30 minutes of my time. Yeah, I don't actually do that.

Yeah. Can I share something that I don't want leaving this space? Because I don't. I don't ever want to punch down publicly with anyone.

You want to hit the record, but.

Right.

No, but I mean, I. I recently had someone book a sales call with me because she wants to be a cat influencer, but she doesn't have a cat yet, and she also can't have a cat where she lives.

You know?

And, like, I know she means well, and I know she means well, and I know she's young and just, like, have a lot of passion for cats.

Yeah.

I didn't take the call. I. I can't say it. And I told her, you know, I. I gave her something else to focus on. But, like, you are the owner of your. Of your time. You don't owe anyone your time. If. If you don't see it being beneficial to you as well. Like, there's nothing. There's nothing wrong with you being selfish about your time.

The way I'm thinking about it, David.

Right.

Because I'm in the wellness space. If somebody doesn't want to do the work and they want a quick, easy thing, like maybe see your doctor about a prescription or maybe go get plastic surgery. But I'm here to help you. Like work.

Yeah.

Right. On your wellness, like eating, sleeping, fitness.

Yep.

Stress management. If you want a quick pill. I'm not the person, but I wish you well.

Yep. Yeah.

If someone wants a Zen pick, they can absolutely go get a Zenpic.

Sure.

Right. Yeah. And this way, you. It's almost like by trying to help them, you kind of undermine your own brand, which I'm just sort of formulating now. That makes a lot of sense.

Yeah.

Why am I taking call? Like, it doesn't help me to take calls with everyone.

No, No.

I mean, you don't do wills, I'm guessing. Right. So would you take calls on people who just want to do their wills? Be like, actually, that's not the kind of law I do. Or maybe.

No. But, like, I had a client reach out to me who's launching a startup, and by. I could Tell from his. The way he filled out my intake form that he needed an immigration lawyer.

Right.

And I took the call, and on the call, like, he did his thing, and then I, like. And I'm. And then afterwards, I was like, I could have just referred him to an immigration lawyer.

Yeah.

I knew that I wasn't gonna help him.

And also, what a great. What a great response. Like, hey, I saw you booked a call with me for this. You actually don't need me. You need an immigration lawyer. I'm sending a separate introduction because they'll be like, you can just bypass talking to me and go talk to them. And then you get the credit for introducing a potential client to the immigration attorney.

Right, right. You're absolutely right.

You know. Okay, we're a little over. Want to jump into main takeaways. Who wants to go first?

Strategy is not.

Not a dirty word.

Oh, yeah. Ask for consent and not to use the word actually. And ask questions and. And see if they're open to a different way to look at it, because I have a more economically viable option to offer. Yes and yes. Yeah, we get so much, as always. Yeah. Thank you so much.

Thank you. And, Dina, who are you picking next?

David.

Sometimes you might not need a startup lawyer. You might need a Catflancer. And I should, you know, I should refer to the appropriate, you know, person who can't have a cat and somehow wants to be a Kevin sir. Because someone's out there for that.

Yeah, absolutely. Or not. Who are you picking next, David?

All right, well, Yvonne.

For me, the takeaway is pick whatever tool is most intuitive and you need right now. Like, don't overthink it. Like, we talked about Mailer Light. We talked about DocuSign or Sign Now. Like, just pick one for now. You can always change it later.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

And then, Monica, I don't know if you want to speak or if you want to put yours in the chat. You don't have to take every sales call. And I feel very accepted in this group. Even on sick. They're good.

I'm so glad.

And I actually have a main takeaway today, too.

It's.

I'm going to go and create a bullshit model just for fun. Might as well.

Yeah.

Awesome.

I cannot wait for this, by the way. Wait, what you come up with, Katie?

It's going to be fun.

It's going to be.

It's got to be your weenie model.

Be careful what you ask for, David.

No, I know exactly what I'm asking for.

I was telling someone yesterday that my dream is to have a big, big like retreat with like 200 people and have like a fancy dinner one of the nights. And everyone walks in, you know, in their nice clothes and on their seat is a hot dog costume and to have a dance floor and to have like, at one moment the music, like the beat drops and everyone starts jumping in their, in their hot dog costume.

You know why a hot dog, by the way?

Because stopping a weenie. So in, in English, American English, weenie is kind of like a synonym for someone who's being scaredy pants about stump. Again, if you're being, if you're being a weenie about something, you're being afraid of something, you're like, you know, not being brave.

Yeah.

And so we need is also synonymous for hot dog. And I just thought hot dog would be funny. So anyway, yeah, Monica, you will, you will absolutely be there.

Yes.

With that.

Yes.

And I want everyone, everyone will be there with that. Having a great weekend. You know where to find me if you have any questions. And I will see you next week.

No.

Oh, and also we have co working in an hour, so if you have stuff you want to work through, come to co working.

Have a good weekend.

Bye, everyone.

Bye. Bye. Have a good weekend. See you in a bit.