Brave Biz Lab 2024 07 05

Sam.

Hello.

Hello.

Hello.

Going?

How are you?

Oh, I'm good. I had a late night last night driving people home who weren't. Weren't okay to drive.

Do you not have taxis or Ubers or. You just didn't want them to bother?

Yeah, I know. I knew that. Like, I mean, it was 4th of July, so like there was no. There's no chance they're gonna get for one.

That's right.

Oh, we're already in kind of a rural area, so, like, you know, I know the three Lyft drivers that are in my town.

I didn't know that you lived in like a small town.

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's tiny.

Yeah.

Hi, Tina.

Hi.

I hope it's okay I didn't have a chance to eat.

Yeah, eat, absolutely. Happy study, everyone. Why don't we start with some questions and I'm sure people will join as we go. Who wants to start us off?

What are we starting with?

Starting?

Sorry.

Like celebration. What are you celebrating for the week?

I have incredible, incredible work sessions with two of my clients and it was very non typical stress strategy session. Very emotional for both of the petites. Well, like the clients and, and. And it sits on. On the skill to listen.

Yeah. Incred. Susan, what about you?

I guess I am celebrating our success yesterday after our call, and since then I've just been feeling so at peace. I woke up feeling at peace, which was really nice.

Yeah.

And yeah, I didn't feel like the world was ending. I'm a failure. Like, nothing is going right. No, no, I just woke up and it was the first day that I woke up this week where I was just like, it's a good morning. Like, hear the birds chirping, like, it's wonderful. And then I just woke up and got to it. So.

Yeah, it's amazing what like looking at shame actually does for us.

Yeah. So, Dina, I had my call with Katie yesterday and I apparently have a lot of shame build up that I'm not good enough. I have like, of course, adhd, mental health issues, and I just unpacked all of that yesterday. And it turns out, I guess that's just what's been weighing on me. And so now it's just almost like I've been reborn a little bit.

Thank you for sharing. And you know, Katie is like shaman. Yeah.

Yeah, it really was.

It's the nerve, right? And you, you don't know this Susan, but we had a group set. I mean, I guess that you're one on one client of Katies and actually.

In byob advanced but she's the only one in BYOB advance right now, so she's technically getting one on one coaching.

Profiting from the situation.

I know I, I really need to promote my programs more.

Well, I want to upgrade myself to the one on one at some point so. And even though it was a group session with Yvonne as well with and I. I've realized that I had a limiting belief around money that was generational trauma and I thought that money was not safe. So if I had money, that means that I'm in power, I'm in a target. So I better get give it all away.

That's interesting. Like I also came to Katie because I have a different kind of money trauma which is I shouldn't make too much because that's not what good people do. Good people don't make and ask for so much money. So I've always undercharged and give things away for free. So it looks like. Yeah, I'm like a coach.

Similar. Yes.

Yeah.

And so it's funny that you also have this. It's a different idea, it's coming from a different area. But long story short is that we both are just not making the money that it would be great if we did.

Let's not stand in our own way and yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

Yvonne.

Hi Yvonne. Yvonne, we're going into what are we celebrating for the week? Do you want to share anything?

So far I've survived. It's my son's birthday Today we had 4th of July birthday tomorrow another birthday. So I'm like in the middle of it.

Well, tell them happy birthday from us.

Yes.

Yvonne, I think you should just pat yourself on the back for showing up because my God, like if it was 4th of July birthday birthday that you're having to plan, organize like I would not be on this call.

So like, and I was social yesterday so I'm proud of myself for that because this time of year I tend to shut down.

So.

No, it's good.

Yeah. And yeah, just you know, save your energy for this weekend too.

Yeah, for sure.

Awesome.

Well, let's open it up. To open Q and A. What questions do you have? How can I support.

I guess I have a question because I just heard the, the first parts of you were talking about the advanced program. At what point are we ready to go from basic to advanced? I guess as a question for myself.

When you get your first like around five high paying clients. That's, that's generally the, the benchmark because like in the advanced program, you know, I'm walking You through like the more in depth money mindset stuff so that we can really like scale your business without you having a meltdown about it. And then of course we're also going into more advanced marketing techniques and stuff, things that you do not want to build until you have a verified offer that like people are signing up for. Right. And around like getting five of them, you know, paying a decent amount. That is when that's, I mean that's a fair amount of, of of confirmation that what you're doing is the thing that you should be doing. Right? Yeah, yeah. So I, of course like BYB Beginner is a year, BYOB advances a year. But like if you, you know, seven months in, you're in BYB Beginner and you're like, I'm ready, I have five high paying clients. I know what I'm doing. I'm really confident in this offer. I'm like good with social media marketing. Then we can help you up to there.

Got it.

No, that's good to keep in mind.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Any other questions?

And so I guess the other thing we didn't get to talk about last time is me building a proposal for.

Now.

Working with a company to help them with employees who are one, facing burnout and two, really what their need is and I need to find out more actually meeting with them, but it's really like how do they stay connected? What I, what I've learned so far is they have, they're smart. They are not forcing everyone into the office. They tried that, it didn't work. So now they've resigned themselves to do hybrid forever, but they're still stuck on this. Like how do we engage people when they're not in the same place? Which is it to me is a funny thing because it's actually not a new problem at all.

Right, right.

Like even when everyone was in the office, it's not like you could engage them just by being there.

Right, right. So the difference was you could force them into a room and hand them a drink and feel like they were being engaged. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. So you've had the initial phone call with them. Are you doing Remind me. I'm just trying to remind myself the sequence of events. You've talked to them. Have you done a proper sales with them yet on this?

No.

Okay, cool. Do you have that scheduled?

I don't, but I can get that scheduled soon. It was just because of the holiday. It was just like the initial conversation of, hey, yeah, we'd be interested. Like, yeah, you have something put together, we'd be interested in talking about it.

Yeah, absolutely. So for this I would, and this is a little different than how I normally suggest you approach these things. And the reason why is because like they're asking for something that you've already put together. Right. So I would put together just like a little like one page brochure on like the things you cover, like the problems you solve and the outcomes that they should, you know, if they commit to them, they should see and then the options, like one on one coaching, group training, like group coaching, you know, in an ongoing setting and then of course like some consulting. And at the bottom I would say, you know, I really customize this program to each one of my clients teach company based on what their needs are. So let's book. And then of course in the email where you're sending this, you're saying, you're saying that again. I, I customize, you know, this program to each one of my corporate clients. Like if this is something you're really, you're ready to start working on and start improving on, then let's book a 30 minute strategy call so I can really understand all the problems this is causing within the company and also what outcomes you'd want because then I can make a stronger recommendation and customize a program to you. Okay. The, the goal is always to get people on a sales call. All right, so you're going to get on that sales call and it's going to be holistic selling but delayed. Right. You're not going to make an offer in that call because you don't know. So you're basically going to get to the point where you're like doing that basic check in. Hi David of like I would love to work with you. What are you feeling right now? And they're gonna obviously say yes. You're gonna say okay, great. So what we're gonna do now is I need a few days to put together some options for you and to create some programs for you. It'll take me a couple days. Why don't we do this? Let's book a proposal presentation call and then you give them I have two say at two, I have Wednesday at four which works best for you. And then we can go through it and if there's anything missing from the proposal at that point you can tell me and I can add to it or if you have any questions then we can talk through it as well. Right. And then you can also say, you know, and I invite anyone who will be impacted by this work to Come to the call as well, because I would love their input as well. Right. And we want to say specifically anyone who's impacted by this, because anytime you're coming in and doing any kind of training or coaching that could be stepping on HR's toes or on a manager's toes, the manager or the HR person can tend to feel like their job is threatened. Right. So, like, best case scenario, everyone who's impacted by this, who has like, you know, a team member who's going to be a part of this, you're, you're on the call with them and you're asking them for input, like, what else would you want to see in this package? You know, is there anything that's missing? Right. Because when they're part of the decision making, if they feel like they're part of the decision making, it's less about, oh my God, she's coming in, taking my job. Yeah. You know, and you know, like your, your whole thing here is to make their, their life, their work, their ability to manage their teams that much better and easier. Right. So you book the proposal presentation call, you're going to give them three options. You're going to give them like the shitty beat up Kia that you'd give to your kid when they get their first driver's license. It's safe, but it's not pretty. Air conditioning barely works, but it'll get them from point A to point B. You're going to give them option B, which is like a really solid, like brand new Audi. It has everything that they need. It's the car that they want. It like, is perfect for them, honestly. And then you're going to give them the Maserati option, which is a little over the top. You're not recommending that. Like, if they really want to throw some money at this, then they can absolutely go for the Maserati. But like you're going for the, the Audi. Okay. Option one should be more expensive really, than it should be just a little bit. So it just makes sense for them to go with option two.

Yeah.

Okay. In your proposal you're gonna have a title page. That's number one, number two, and this is, you know, flexible. We can, we can play with the order of this. Number two is going to be like, what problems they're having that they're hoping working with you will solve. Right. Page three is going to be the objectives. What are the outcomes that they want to see out of this? Page four can be you talking about the things that you see that they need that Will help them go from problem to outcome. Right. So group coaching training number one.

Can you repeat that again?

Sorry, I didn't hear the question. I'm sorry. What?

Sorry, can you. You're now at page three. Can you repeat again from one Page one? What?

Page one is the title page. Yeah. And you know, it has your name, it has their name, it also has a date for the expiration for this proposal. You know, because you don't want someone coming back the next year being like, we're ready and you've doubled your prices. And it's also a way for you to create some urgency and to follow up with them. If you say that this proposal is good for 30 days, you know, if you don't hear back from them by day 28, you can ring them up and be like, hey, just want to touch base, you know, I know we, we looked at that proposal together. It does expire in a couple days. Like, do you need more time? What's, what's the decision making process like right now? Right. But anyway, so page four is about your proposal. Like the, just the overview of like, what you suggest will help them go from problem to outcome. And then on page five, you're going to lay out the three options. And then of course, like, and then, I'm sorry, and then page six or beyond page five goes longer. You're gonna have a little bio about yourself, just a little background. And then page seven or whatever, the last page should be like, here's an A description of next step.

Okay.

Yeah. And then as you're creating this document, if you put it into Google Docs and share it into Heartbeat, I will go through and edit and give you feedback. Okay. And then of course, after the proposal presentation call, you're asking them, how long do you need to make this decision? Who else needs to sign off on this? What's your timeline? What dates are you thinking of to start something like this? And you're, you're really getting to know, like, what is their process for making a decision like this.

Yeah.

Okay. Because that way you can kind of help hold them accountable to following that timeline. And also it helps you kind of like set your expectations properly.

Yeah.

And then you're, you're again setting a yes, no call. And just know that when you're setting a yes, no call for corporate, it can be like a month out.

Yeah.

If there's anyone who's on the, who's part of the decision making process, who's not on the call again, you're saying, cool, so you're going to be going and presenting this to them. What questions will they have that you haven't asked yet? Right. Because the person you're talking to wants this. They wouldn't be on the call with you if they didn't want it. So you get to help them go and sell it.

Yeah.

And then, of course, if there are any other calls that need to be set up in the meantime, if maybe one of the other decision makers wants to meet you, you're just facilitating that.

Cool. Awesome.

Yeah. Any other questions right now on that?

Not right now.

Cool.

All right, what questions do we have today, Dina?

So with Daniel Michael, my second client, the one that I, we've agreed for $3,000 for me to complete the onboarding and do one working session. So we're already at the stage that I finished today, the onboarding, and next week we're planning to do this work work session of one and a half hours. So I would like to set an agenda and I wanted to ask for your thoughts how to structure it, because I already told him that we would need. I would, it would be best if we. He can think about three top questions or topics that he wants to discuss. Maybe you help me as well to basically structure it because it's not the usual format of how I work or it's me advising. So how can I showcase to him that we do it in a very effective way and then in a way encourage him to book another session in the future because it's just on demand.

Okay.

So this is a hard question for me to answer because A, I've never seen you work. I don't, I don't know what your process normally is and B, I don't know anything about them and they're going to be bringing to the table. Right. So here's, here's. But here's what I want to say is when we're in this, in this scenario where we're offering like a smaller package to someone hoping that they're going to sign up for more work, it's really tempting to get sucked in, sucked into the performative. Like, let's prove ourselves, like in this 90 minutes so that they do sign up. Right.

I, I feel that he already feels the benefits because we've.

Yeah.

From this like, onboarding session.

Right. But from the question that you asked, you were like, how do I do this? So that he wants to also.

In addition.

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, like with nine minute session. Yeah. So I mean, like, it depends on what you need to be your best. If you need an agenda to be your best. Great. Then create an agenda based on what? And you can ask him to deliver those questions or those topics to you in advance. Right.

I see.

Or you can dance with him in the moment and say, cool, what are the three things that you came up with? And you could prepare a few things that if he, like, was lazy and didn't do it, then you can come up with three things that you see would be really valuable to the organization.

Okay. So, yes. Basically, the few things that come to my mind now, first of all, I can ask him, like, what works best for him, but then it's not me, like, putting it in a structure. This is the place that I'm coming from. And the second place is that I told him already that. The second point is that I told him already I will not wait for his questions for me to offer my feedback because he wanted me to be like, a sounding board to what he's doing. And he's back on.

What.

So he is now established in NGO and he needs to go and. And reach out to sponsors.

Yes.

Yeah.

Sorry. Sorry. So feedback on what part of the strategy? Like, what. What did you say you were giving feedback on? If you told him you needed questions from him?

Sorry, I meant.

I'm confused. I'm sorry. I'm not tracking what the process is.

So basically, I told him that already thus far, I have provided him with a lot of feedback.

Mm.

Even though he didn't ask for it, because I saw that he was not taking into consideration many other elements.

Right, right.

Into establishing an ngo.

Right.

So. And I. And I continued and I said, so even though I encourage you to bring in those specific questions and topics for the agenda in order to make the session effective, in any case, I will not wait for or your questions. I would offer additional feedback as I.

Okay, cool. So here's how you're going to structure it, is you're going to come up with a little, like, outline of the feedback that you want to go through. Right. If he comes in, he's like, these are my three big burning questions. After our last session, you're going to prioritize his questions. Right. If you don't get to your own feedback or you don't get through it all because, you know you were answering his questions, that's a great reason for him to continue with you.

Okay, good.

Because, like, he. He only paid for the 90 minutes.

Yes.

Right. Or you can flip it. You can say, here are the things that I really think that you need to be working On. And then if he has so many questions, you can say, you know, like, you know, this is one of the reasons why I do have my clients work with me for minimum of six months. And we have X amount of calls each month because, like, every. Every new thing that we talk about will open up new questions. And then, of course, starting to act on those answers will open questions that will open up more questions. And of course, like, do you want to have access to that kind of support going forward? You know, you're like, you're on. You're flirting with coaching.

Yeah, I didn't realize.

Yeah.

So, like, here's. And for those of you who aren't coaches, you know, a traditional coaching relationship is you show up and your client brings a topic. And it's not the coach's job to bring up the topic. It's the coach's job to sit there and say, cool, what do you want to talk about today? And whatever the client wants to talk about, that's what you help them work through. And if they don't have a topic, then you help them mind for a topic. You might have them do, like, the Wheel of Life. You might have them do some kind of visualization so that they can kind of figure out what it is that they really need to focus on. There is also a point where, like, they're not coming with topics of things that they need to figure out because it's a problem. And that's where you're like, okay, great. Like, we've worked through enough shit that we can start building something better. Cool. What do you want to build? What do you want to start? Huh?

That's an executive coach. That's.

I mean, that's traditional coaching. That's a traditional coaching structure. Life coaching, executive coaching, leadership coaching, whatever. Whatever you call it. But, like. But I do want to point to this offer you have. I think you're going to be dancing in that space where that's how some of your sessions will go. And so you may want to let go of, like, insisting there's going to be an agenda for everything.

I see your point. Okay. Yeah, I didn't actually meant to. Yes, yes, yes, yes, I see. I see your point.

Yeah.

Because I thought that I need to make it constructive or. Yeah. To prove it to be effective. But actually. Okay.

I mean, I don't set up an agenda for any of my calls. Right. Because what I might see is, like, super helpful. You guys might not be what you need in the moment.

Yeah.

Right.

And at the same time, you do have Rules of how you like to do it. So just like you say, the way I want to spend the next 30 minutes is by getting absolutely clear about what you need.

Sales call. That's different. That's a sales call.

Right?

Yeah. And there's also a different way you manage it. When it's a group, right? When it's a group you need to manage that everyone's getting something out of it. So like there are sometimes on, on the fourth Friday of the month had a couple situations where someone like is question after question after question after question. And it's, you know, to a degree like I want people to take up space. Right. Because that's part of having a business is feeling comfortable taking up space and there's managing, wanting other people to be able to ask their questions. Right. This is one of the reasons why I don't just let anyone sign up for byob. Like I like to talk to people first to make sure that they're on the right like wavelength with everyone else. Like it's a curated group, you know, not everyone I do a sales call with gets the invite to be in the group, you know, but one on one, my one on one clients, they like they just get to bring a topic, whatever they want to talk about that day, whatever they're struggling with, whatever they want to like build towards. And that's what we focus on in the moment.

So there is no like, okay, so the guidance comes from them or from you or from that moment.

When you say guidance, what do you mean?

I mean so he has a very specific starting point and a destination. He wants to establish a global ngo. He is struggling with the vision for this ngo. I come in with, you know, my whatever process focusing on the full strategy for that ngo.

Yeah.

And a lot of elements go to it. And, and also, and also in addition the education part that I can start doing, explaining what strategy is. I mean not in the, in a way.

Yeah, yeah, I know you mean. Yeah.

The five questions and strategy that we need to ask very specific. And it's not just not what the vision or the mission that's part of it.

Right.

So then there are many particles in the foundation that we're building on. Right. And I me that for example that his vision is still not crystal clear.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So here's this is why I'm not saying that you're a full on coach, like you're flirting with it. You sometimes you're going to have a call and he's going to bring stuff and you're not Going to have time to get to your stuff. Right. But you do have like the bits that you know that he doesn't even know to ask about.

Exactly.

Right.

So.

So you're gonna do that dance. You're gonna say, cool. You're gonna have a running list of all the things that you need to cover with them. If you're coming with something that's really hot and like really pertinent to that moment, he needs to figure it out. Like, the other stuff doesn't matter. Like, you have to help him set, like, put out the fire.

Yes.

But if he comes, he's like, I'm ready to work. Like, what's the next thing that we need to focus on? Then you're taking charge. This is why I'm not saying you're a full on coach. Like, you be ready to be in coach mode where you're like advising them in the moment based on what's happening for them right now. But you still have that running strategy going through. And for this person, it might be helpful to you for you to come up with like a long list of all the areas that you see that he needs to work on. And as you're going through this session with him, like, cross off one, cross off two, like write notes about three, how far you got in, and then he can see all the other parts that he's still missing and say, you know, if you really want to continue working through this, you know, that would be working together in an ongoing fashion.

So I can. And you know what? I. You're again, spot on, Katie. Because with my session with Chris, I mean, with the ngo, another one Hope for I. And the playbook that you suggested in our one on one celebration call. So, yes, I want to create this playbook. So I can now create that and send it already to Daniel. Right. Or like as a complimentary. But it's just. Or no.

Or did he pay for a playbook?

No.

No. Then don't send it. No, you're not, you're. No, no, no, no, no, no.

Okay.

Yes. Don't give away all your work for free.

Okay, Got it.

Can I. Can I just. Can I say something of this person? Standby. Dina, it almost sounds like you're invested, like a co founder. Yeah, I mean, you're way too invested, and it sounds like you're giving way too much the goal. Whenever you provide any services, you should not be working harder than the client. I feel like you're just.

Well, to a degree. But she's also, you know, for what she's doing. She does have to put in some of the work.

Yeah. I mean, I know she's consulting, but. But still like a free, like, play by playbook. Like, I mean, what. Yeah.

If they're paying for it, if they're saying, I want you to build out a whole playbook for us, great. That's however many, like tens of thousands of dollars that you're going to charge. You know, I forgot the pricing we put on that. But yeah, you're not, you're not just giving him that. That's what he needs to pay for.

He got it. But at least now I understand the, the map. Okay, thank you. That's very helpful.

Yeah. So I want you to think about this. So, like, you know when you go to a restaurant that has like a prefix menu.

Yes. Or a la carte.

Yeah. So like, they'll have, they'll actually have things on the prefix menu that you can't get. A la carte. And they're special and they're delicious and they're like, you know, top quality. You know, there's like artistry that's gone into it. The regular menu, their a la carte menu is going to be good, but it's not going to have the special things on the prefix menu. And they're not going to let you just say, oh, well, I would love that lobster souffle with the caviar, whatever it is. They're going to say, I'm so sorry, that's only available for the prefix menu. Would you like to do that? It's 10 courses and it's, it's $400. Or would you like to get the salmon?

Okay. Because in my mind, the prefix is cheaper than a la carte, but not.

At a fine dining restaurant. Not at a fine dining restaurant. We're talking fine dining. We're not talking like, like the Sunday special.

So now you know that I haven't been in the fine dining. I have, but.

I used to work fine dining. I used to work in fine dining. And it's, you know, most people, like, if you're at a fine dining restaurant, why, why wouldn't you go for the prefix? You know, you're there for the experience. You're not just there to fill your stomach. You're not just there because you're hungry. You're there for the experience. To experience the artistry of someone who's made their whole career about food. Right. You've made your whole career about this. Each and every one of you made your whole career about the thing that you Do.

Such a great analogy. Mm.

You know, for everyone here, you know, we all have some imposter syndrome in us, right? We all have the, oh, well, I should just give them a lot right now to prove how valuable I am. And then later, they'll. They'll think, oh, my God, like, I have to go back to Rich because he is so valuable and his stuff is so incredible. Guess what they're going to expect. They're going to expect to do the same amount of work for the same amount of money that you did the first time. Right. You haven't trained them that you're valuable. You've trained them that you're cheap shit. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, beware. Beware of that. Good enough, Dina?

Yes. Thank you so much.

So to train to everyone.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a good reminder of first impressions. It's kind of like dating, right? It's like.

You know, once you give.

It up on the first date, you can't go back to being like. Go back to being like, you're not going to get the milk for free because they already got it.

But again, from my dating experience, I also learned that it's never too late to communicate a standard, even if it's a new one. It's never true.

Yeah, but it is harder.

It gets much harder.

It is harder. Yeah. So let's not do that. Let's not confuse them to start, because remember, a confused buyer never buys. And if they're confused on what they're getting, it's easier to walk away.

But do you mean that I'm doing it now with Daniel, or. No. Or it's just.

Well, you're giving him stuff that he's not paying for.

Yeah, the playbook. Yeah.

Yeah.

I think you're fine with Daniel right now, but I think, like, you need to be very conscious of not giving too much.

Thank you so much.

You've all been there. You don't feel bad about it. I'll tell you, though, that I. I've worked with. With some clients for years, and when I started with them, I was more desperate and a lot more eager to, like, show my value over and above what the client was actually invested for. And, like, two, three years later, those clients never pay on time, and it's not on them. Like, when I. Because I set that up, retraining those expectations, right? Like, I came across as somebody who just doesn't care that much if they're paid. And it's like an uphill battle. And now I'm, like, training, but, like, I see I get new clients for the same types of matters for higher prices and I get paid a lot better. And the common, the difference is me, I showed up differently and like training those three year old clients to like it, it's going to, I mean, I'm doing it and you can do it, but it's, it's harder and it takes longer because in the back of their mind they know that if they, if they don't pay you this month, this week, whatever, you're not going anywhere. Because you kind of already said that, so.

Yes, but he didn't pay for this.

You're giving him more than what he paid for.

Yes. Yes. I haven't. Yes.

Yeah. And also he's gonna, if you, once you set that standard, the referrals that you get when he is telling his colleagues that you have to hire Tina, she's good and she's cheap and she'll give you stuff for free. But that'll happen because now, because that's, that's the thing that's notable about you, that's impressive about you. That's not what you want to be impressive. You don't want to be that person.

Yep, yep.

She, she.

Sorry.

Not sorry.

But, but like David said, we have all been there.

They've all been there.

All been there.

Like, yeah, that's my first paying client.

So, yeah, go easy on yourself, but it's good. Look, you, you have to do things at once. You have to give yourself slack, but you also got to push yourself to like really give yourself the best edge each time.

Yeah. Well, and also know that when we give too much in a relationship, we make it uneven. And because we've made it uneven, people don't, like, are afraid that they can never repay us and then they disappear. And not only do they disappear because they feel guilty that they took too much, they won't use what you gave them.

Yeah. Oh my God. So.

I am glad this is happening to you in this stage because I went way too long, way longer than I should have. If this is really like your first, like paying, Paying client, bravo to you because I'm very hard headed and I did, I continuously did dumb shit. So no stress.

Yeah. All right, what other questions do we have today? This is such a great topic, though.

Not really a question, but more just because sometimes karma is a bitch and has a weird sense of humor. I, I posted on, on LinkedIn about how legal is like the lower back of your startup. Right. Like it's not sexy but can't really get very far in Fitness with a strong lower back. And I scheduled it to go out in the morning. And while it was being posted, I threw my back out at the gym. And I don't know what I'm supposed to take, but I do know that, like, standing up and sitting back down and moving is painful, but. Yeah. So I don't know, it's like, pay extra attention to my contracts to, like, you know, at least the lower back of my. I don't know.

I think. I think you have to video yourself standing up.

Oh, God. Yeah. Coughing is painful.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, that's really.

I'm so sorry. That's the worst.

Gold. Yeah, that's.

Well, there's.

I think there's. There's more content here. Right? So, yeah.

Thank you.

No, if somebody already has, like, back pain because they haven't paid attention to their legal, you can be their chiropractor.

Right?

Like, you can help get them a strong.

I'm gonna do that. Yeah, that's really good. That's a really good idea. Yeah. Yeah. Hire me and let me come over and, you know, rearrange you.

Yeah, right. No, I just have this image of David doing a video where he has one of those, like, massage person's belts that has the lotion thing and he's just like, let's go.

Yeah.

That would be awesome. That would be. Yeah, yeah. Caption would be like, if you want my hands all over your back. The link to book is in my profile. That's gonna. That's gonna be great. Yeah.

Yep, yep, yep, yep. Because think about the engagement. You'll get. You'll get funny engagement. Like, show up, be human. You get to joke with you. You're gonna respond to their comments.

Yeah, I can charge extra for lotion.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Aromatherapy.

All right, good. I like that.

Well, and in legal, most things are fixable, right? Like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If you get the right legal partner, you can. You can course. Correct.

Unless you're wearing the orange pajamas.

Most things are fixable, right? Yeah, yeah.

David, if you come to Israel, I have the best. The osteopath that will fix problem.

I think the plane ride might be a little painful for him right now. Yeah.

I'll have to do some stretching. But don't worry, because in a day or two, I'm going to forget that my back hurts to go back to the gym.

Right. And you should probably do some ab work, too, not just lifting heavy things.

Thanks.

You're welcome. Just. I have advice of all kinds here.

I. I have lots of back problems. So I can also a lot. And it's just your muscles are not strong enough, your belly and the whole area.

So, yeah, everyone dropping. Give me ten crunches.

No, just kidding.

All right, what other questions do we have today? Because, David, you're gonna be posting about that. Yeah. Not everyone at once. Awkward turtle.

There's actually. It's a good thing how I despise silence. And every time you ask, okay, who's next? And if I don't have an immediate question, I get really uncomfortable and I'm.

Like, oh, my goodness.

So what's a good tip when you're dealing with a client and you kind of put that question out there not to keep filling the gap. Filling the gap, yeah.

Okay, so here's. Here's what I want you to visualize, especially when you ask a question that requires some thinking, right? Like, they're not. It's not like, you know, what do you have on your desk? I have highlighters, I have, you know, thumbtacks. Like, I can answer that question really quickly because the information is right in front of me, right? When you ask a question like, what do you want your life to look like in five years? You know, that takes me a minute. So I want you to imagine you've just handed them an empty bucket and you've told them you need to go to the answer well and you need to answer, get, you know, the answer, water into the bucket. You need to bring it back. Okay? So I want you to visualize you've handed them the bucket. They have to, like, you know, climb up the hill to where the well is. They gotta look down, they gotta, like, attach the bucket to the. The thing. They gotta lower it down, they gotta look down, make sure it's like it's immersed and filled with water. And then they gotta pull it back up and they have to look at it. Is that enough? Is this the right. Is this the right answer?

Cool.

Okay, let me. And then, of course, they have to bring it back down to you, thinking about how they're gonna explain it and how they're gonna give it to you, right? Because they're not just gonna, like, splash you in the face with it, right? And. And give them the time. Give them the time to think about it. When we. When we ask. Oftentimes when we ask an open ended question, I mean, I think about when we were back in school, like the teacher who knows that everyone studied and knows the content. They're giving an essay test. They're asking you essay questions because they have Confidence that you can pass that. What happens? They know you didn't really study, but they want you guys to pass anyway. They move it to multiple choice. Right. And what happens when they're like, oh, they really didn't study? Then they move it to true and false. Right. We do this, too in conversation. We do this with our. Our friends, our spouses, our family. What do you want for dinner? They don't understand the question. They don't. They're not answering. Okay, well, then, do you want Indian or do you want pizza? And then we've just interrupted them. They don't want either one. But now they have to decide which one they want. Like, they least want the least, you know, like. And then it's like, do you want to have dinner with me or not? And it's like, well, no, now I don't.

You know?

And really, like, for you, it's going to be a lot of practice, right? Learning how to be with silence. Took me a very long time to be with. It's still uncomfortable, right? So if you're on a client call, they can't see you literally hold your lips together. Yeah, Susan, that's a great trick. And know that it's kind of a game of chicken, you know, especially on a sales call. You know, silence is very powerful on a sales call, but it's also how people feel like you're listening. So when I first got trained as a coach, I had a cousin who lived nearby, and she had two kids, and her. Her son was really struggling in the school he was in. He's about nine years old. And so they were transferring him to a private school school. And I, like, had a little afternoon with him. We grabbed lunch. You know, we're bopping around town, doing some errands, and, you know, we're driving. I'm driving him home. And I'm like, oh, Peter, like, are you. How do you feel about this new school? Like, are you nervous at all? And he's like, no. And I just stayed silent, Stayed silent and stayed silent. And he's like, well, kind of. And then he. He kind of, like, just opened up about all the things that he was worried about. He's worried about making friends. He was worried about what the homework load was going to be. Like, he was worried about this, like, what kind of groups he would join. Da, da, da. Like, what if he had a hard time making friends there like he did in his first school? Like, he wouldn't have had the space to answer that if I was like, oh, cool, let's listen to music now. Right. Oftentimes when we ask people a question, also, their first answer is, oh, I don't know. Right. But the I don't know isn't a genuine I don't know. It's kind of like when we turn on the faucet wanting hot water. Like, the cold water has to come out first. Like, your faucet is not a hot water heater, you know, or that would be very dangerous. We'd have like third degree burns every single day. But like, you know, the I don't know, it's just kind of like the flushing of the pipes. And then they answer. Sometimes they'll say, no, I genuinely do not know. I need help here. And then you get to help them work it out. So here's what I urge you to do is practice this. Practices with your family, practices in friendships, in conversation. Ask people deep questions and just stay silent waiting for the answer.

Yeah, that's cool. In fact, the last time my wife had a job interview, it was the first time. She's like, I'm going to just try this. And she was on the phone with HR and they were kind of asking like unrelated questions, basically trying to figure out, I think, you know, how much equity she has in the previous company. And she's like, it doesn't make any difference. Like. So she kind of like politely hit him back and then stayed silent and put them on their heels so much that they started to like. And she was like, I felt so powerful. And I just stayed silent. I didn't have to justify myself. I didn't have to do this. I literally just told them where it's at and then stop talking. But, you know, obviously a different scenario with clients. But it's interesting because in your, in a way, I guess you're respecting them to be like, you have something in there that you, you know, I just asked you a pertinent question. Take the time and think about it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And know that, like, you getting the. The full answer is going to make you better able to do your best work. Right. At the end of the day, that's what it's helping you do. You getting the full answer from this person, whether it's a sales call or it's a consultation for a project that they've already signed up for, you're going to be able to do your best work when you fully hear what their vision is or their problem is. Right.

Cool.

Great question. Is that good enough?

Oh, yeah. That's awesome. Thank you.

Awesome.

And in group settings, Just a little training for everyone. If you're running a group, silence is one of the most powerful things you can do for the introverts in the room. Right. Because the extroverts will be the first people to start talking. Right. After a while, they start thinking, oh, God, I'm the only one talking. I should, like, wait for other people so they'll hold back. Like, I know the extroverts in this room are like, oh, yeah, I know that.

Yeah.

And then the introverts will be like, oh, no one's talking. Okay, maybe I can ask my question. Should I ask my question? Like, is anyone else going to talk? Oh, I. David looks like he might be going for the unmute. Oh, no, no, no. He was getting a tissue. Okay, okay, I'll. I'll ask my question now. You know, cute of you to look out for us. I studied you guys for a very long time. I still don't understand you, but. Awesome. We have time for probably one or two more questions. Who wants to go?

Can you get a clip of the Jeopardy. Music and. And play it while waiting for us to talk? I feel like that's a nice little touch. Feel.

Yeah.

And we all know this so well. Like, the chant immediately comes, and we're.

Gonna train us because then by the end, we're not going to help ourselves. We're just gonna, you know, have to board out something. Even if it's like, you know, Sean Connery, celebrity Jeopardy style.

I guess I have kind of a question.

Yeah.

For the group, and it's more so. Yeah. For those of you on the call who have adhd, how the. Do you just, like, get done? Because. Yeah.

Like.

Like, please tell me, anybody, if they have some. Some tips, some tricks, because. And I do feel like it's almost sometimes worse. Like, sometimes there's phases where I feel like it's more severe than others. And I'm in a. I'm in a period now. I just feel like I can't get done. So I just thought I'd throw it out there and see.

Hold on. I have to grab something. It's another room. I'll be back.

Say bye. Bring the dog back. Bring Luna when you come.

I. I'm right there with you. I. I go in ups and downs, and it is annoying, say the least.

I just. I thought it would be hilarious if Katie walked away and just got distracted and did something else.

Didn't come back.

Five minutes of this call. We're just waiting as, like, an illustration of your question in real time. That would have been really special.

No, I wanted to. I wanted to, like, get you an example of how I get shit done that you can see. But I heard someone else answering, so I don't want to interrupt another answer. So go. Whoever was talking, please continue.

No, I. I finished my thought already, but thank you.

Okay, so part of what we get really hung up on as adhders is we say, okay, well, I want a meal prep, right? I want to meal prep. I want to have food for the week and all that stuff. We don't take into account that meal prepping is a layered task, right? So, like, how this would go down for me is I'd be like, cool, I'm gonna meal prep. So I have to go grocery shopping, and then I have to cook easy enough. So I go grocery shopping, and then I come back home, be like, oh, shit, I didn't empty the dishwasher. It's full of clean dishes, and the sink is full of dirty dishes. That's one thing I have to do, right?

So how are you in my house? Are you in my house, Kate?

I am.

I'm in a closet right now. I just redecorated this one closet anyway. And so then I'd be like, okay, well, some of the stuff is. Can't be out for that long, so I have to put in the refrigerator. And the refrigerator is like, oh, God, I have to throw some of this stuff out. Like, this isn't good. So that's another task. So we have. We have empty the dishwasher. We have filled the dishwasher. We have washed the dishes that can't go in the dishwasher. We have emptied the refrigerator. We have filled the refrigerator. That's now six tasks in addition to the first two. Right? And oftentimes, by the time you get done with, like, cleaning the kitchen and, like, getting stuff put in the refrigerator, you're too tired, and you don't. You don't meal prep. And then again, like, all that food just kind of, like, sits in your fridge and. And rots, and then you throw it out the next week. Okay, so what we have to do is when we're thinking of what we want to do and before we. We're sitting down to even do it, we have to think through what are the steps we have to do. Delayer the task. Okay, I do this mostly with my content, right? Because sitting down and writing 10 pieces of content. Whoa, that's a lot of work when you have to think of it like what the. The topic is and the. The hook and all the content and what's it supposed to do? Like what's my strategy for the month? You know, you have to check in on a bunch of stuff that's a.

Lot of layers, you know, Nightmare.

It's a nightmare. Right. So for instance, what I've started doing with my content is, you know how I go on like a five day cycle most of the time I, I veer off sometimes. So I'll actually go through and like come up with a theme for each five days. Right. And then I'll go through and I will make a prompt for pain and for desire and for the testimonial one and for the my story and for the details. Right. And I'll go through and for each theme, I'll come up with a prompt for each one of those five. Right. And then what I'll do is I'll type all these into a document and, and I won't write anything like. And this is all like multiple little work sessions that I'm doing. So I have everything in a document. I understand what the calendar is. Then as I have the energy and I have, as I have the inspiration, I go through and I just write as many as I can, I go through and I find the ones that like I feel inspired by at that time, you know, and I do this again and again and again and again. But for every single thing that we do, we have to delay or the task and we have to do it in a separate work session than doing the actual work. Right. Otherwise it becomes too big, too overwhelming. Because while we're delayering the task, we're, we're not in delayering the task. We're stressing out about not having enough time to actually do the thing.

Yep. I, I love that that Rich is also like, yep, yep. And I'm like, yeah, yeah.

So, so like we, we really do have to consciously delay our things. And it is a lot of mental work. Give yourself credit for the amount of mental work you're doing. Right. Neurotypicals don't have to do this.

Yeah.

And that's the thing. It's like, I feel like there's so much legwork that it takes me so long to do something. And when I'm talking to people that are just. I'm a member of like a female founder group and we co work on Mondays to write content. I'm still just working on the outline and by the end of our hour session everyone's like, great, I wrote five posts for this week and I'm like, motherfuckers, Like, I mean, because I've already thought through, like, everything possible to think. So. Yeah, I think it's like you said. I think I guess I need to then plan beforehand because I cannot plan and do the task at the same.

Yeah.

Because it's. And also my cognition. I feel like my brain is fried. Like, prepping. The brain is fried, so it's hard to move on to the next thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dina.

I just wanted to add that I was in that horrible, horrible state, and what pulled me off was Katie, you with your 12 giveaway, remember?

Oh, my 12 days of stopping a weenie.

Yes. And I, you know, before I was your client. And one thing that I realized as well is that even if you don't feel like it, even whatever that is, you feel like shitty mood wars, sirens, whatever that is, allow yourself not to judge or evaluate. It's a little bit like with brainstorming or like, you have a task. So just. And you, Katie, as well, you said allocate the time and don't judge yourself. Do not evaluate. Just sit. And sometimes you will sit for half an hour and do nothing or. And again, Katie, what do you think? But sometimes you will sit and. Because you're already sitting and you're not telling yourself, do not judge yourself. Do not evaluate yourself. Right now. You will just start, and then you just keep going without thinking or negotiating. Should I do it or shouldn't do it? Am I doing it great or I'm not doing it great, but just, you know, being. Focus on one task and doing. Keep on doing it if it helps.

I love it when people put back stuff to me that I don't remember saying. I'm like, yeah, that sounds like me. Yeah, that sounds like something. Susan, does that help?

Yeah, we'll see in practice if it helps.

Okay, cool. So before the Monday call, plan out, like, five topics to write about.

Yeah.

Just set aside a half hour this weekend to sit down and write out, like, five ideas. You know, two of them can be lead to a sales call. Another one can be for a lead magnet. Two others can be relationship building. You know, and then when you get into that work session, you already have the prompt. You already know where you're supposed to lead people, and you just have to put it together. Deal. Yeah, we're going a little over. Want to jump into main takeaways? Who would like to start us off? And we will popcorn it.

I would just like to say that it is so validating to hear what we just talked about, because, I mean, personally, I'M only about a year on my discovery journey of adhd, and you guys are right inside my head. And it was, like, so validating to be like, yeah, this is a real thing. Like, this is why you struggle a lot. So thank you. So that's my takeaway. It's not just me. All right, go ahead, Susan.

Yeah, same thing, really, is that it's. I'm also. Within a year of it. I was in both because I also have dyslexia and dyslexia. I found out still only in my late 20s. And then I get into my 30s and find ADHD. And then they even said, why didn't they also test you for adhd? Because it also goes hand in hand with dyslexia. Nonetheless, it's. I always struggled, and I just felt like, God, why do I struggle so much? It seems like it's so easy for everyone else, and so it's so validating. And I like being in spaces where there's other neurodivergence because you feel seen, you feel heard. You don't feel like a idiot because you can't do basic shit. And it's just nice to kind of be in a space where we can talk about it openly together, and we collectively get it. It's hard trying to explain to my partner. I know that I left crumbs on the counter, but I really didn't see them. Like, I mean, I just walked past them. I thought I cleaned the kitchen, but I don't know how, but that happened. So it's nice that people are like, oh, yeah. But we all know we do this, too. Go ahead, Dina. Tell us your takeaways.

I don't think that I have an adhd. However, like, listening to all of you, it makes me so humble, and I learned so much about human aspects. And again, it's not whether I think I have other. Whatever. Disorders or whatever you want to call it.

It's okay. Even if you're not crazy, you can still hang out with us.

Yeah, we're welcoming.

Talk about the normies behind your back.

Well, I. I will tell you, my adhd, I'm very sensitive, but not sensitive in a way that you would expect. Expect, like, sassy or whatever. I just feel a lot, and I'm overwhelmed with emotions a lot. Like, it's like an antenna to whatever, and it just. I don't know how. It takes me a lot of bandwidth to process a lot of information and articulate it or.

But that's. That's the thing. It's hsp. Highly sensitive people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you see. So I'm also part of the crazy gang, so I feel belong. It's just that I wanted to say thank you for sharing it because I think everybody's on a spectrum, right. And we understand the human aspects of the psychology or whatever. Whatever that makes us more human. So thank you. And my main takeaway is. Oh, gosh, again. You see, I had so many and I forgot. Yes. But every time you speak about something, it doesn't. I mean, I. Yeah, I don't forget.

Could be. It could be as contagious and just hanging out with us too.

No, but I didn't say it in a. In. Oh, I'm not that. I'm also. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm. I'm grateful because I see that this is just super. Superpower. This is how I see it. And I told you that already in the past that this is your superpower because you're so creative and. Yeah. So there are a lot of good stuff. Anyway, so not to give anything for free to. To realize that I'm dancing between coaching and consultancy, by the way. I don't know what's the difference between a coach and a consultant, but that's not for another session. And. And educate the client of my value. And with that, I will give to David.

Thank you.

My takeaway. I think that a great icebreaker would be, you know, name, job and favorite DSM diagnosis. That actually be a lot of fun. I'm going to try that. Anyways, my main takeaway is that lower back pain can make for great content.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that, you know, most problems can be solved with motion. Motion lotion and. And strong hands. So with that, you guys have a great weekend.

Well, can I. I actually want to share something that I learned and the fact that we're talking so much about ADHD on this call. So I'm taking a French class right now. That's like every single day, an hour. And I finally learned what the acronym is for ADHD in French, and it's T, D, A H, which I think is amazing because it's essentially ta da. So with that weekend, and I will see you next week, I'm gonna start calling it that.

That's awesome.

Okay, bye, everyone.

Okay.

All right, take care.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Great.