Brave Biz Lab 2024 07 12

Hello. Hello.

How's it going?

Good. How are you?

Good. Happy Friday.

Happy Friday.

What are you.

I made updates to my acuity questionnaire to include, if you wanted, like, a quick coaching session, I built out like a paid hour thing.

Good, good, good. Yeah, yeah. Be interesting to see how many people go there and book a call with you.

It will be interesting. Especially because I haven't ever had that as a service and I. I set it at 150 for the hour.

Well, yeah, yeah.

So I don't know if people would pay that much for an hour or not, so.

Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's reasonable, honestly, especially if you're like, considering making a big change in your career. Why not?

Yeah.

People pay $300 an hour for a psychic, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm still getting a lot of people, though, that, like, don't have jobs or that are coming from university, so, like, they just don't have money.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And in your messaging, you may want to start saying, you know, my. My program is really geared towards people who've been in the workforce for X amount of years in an unrelated field.

Yeah.

You know, and start talking about that and like, start talking about how you like the insecurity of having this.

Is.

Like, skill set that is separate to data and how you can start transferring it over. Yeah, right. Like, you've developed ability to manage the whole classroom and to keep everyone on time and this and that and the other thing. And then how do you transition that over to convincing people, you know, hiring managers that you're good in a data role, you know?

Yeah.

So. Yeah.

Yeah.

And. And also, like, if you're just graduating school, like, go get an internship, you know, go start learning, you know, you don't. You don't need this, you know? Oh, yeah, I know.

I'm like, you. You talk like you reaching out and talking to me already means that you're like, ahead of the game if you're just. Just go get a job and figure it out.

Absolutely. Oh, my gosh. Anyway, I just got a notification that all of my emails didn't go through to remind people of today's call. So this may. I got it. You got it. Okay, good. I did weird. Okay. I don't know.

I absolutely did.

Bizarre. Oh, that's right.

I didn't get the 24 hour. I got the one hour and the 10 minutes.

Oh, okay, great. Cool, cool.

No, I lied. I did get the 24 hour one too.

Wow. Okay, good.

Yeah.

So I don't know People are slacking this morning. Can I get off of my chest? That, like, just happened. I'm like, oh, my God, this.

Yes.

So I'm taking this, like, 60 day challenge of taking a French class every day through this platform called Lingoda. And it's wonderful. Like, small groups. The professors are really knowledgeable and all this stuff, but the teacher I had today kept, like, sucking spit through the side of his mouth going, like, every time he went to say something.

Stop, stop it.

Oh, my gosh.

You know, and it's just like, no, stop.

Yeah.

Anyway, thank you. What questions do you have?

We'll just dive in.

Oh, questions. Goodness. I will say I. I was helping Carrie out with market interviews and realize that being on the other end of the market interviews is so different and also, like, a lot helpful. So maybe, like, that should be a requirement for us to, like, interview each other about our businesses and whatnot. And the whole, like. Like, what five words describe you well? Which ones don't describe you well? And like, it.

It.

I don't know. It was kind of. It was an eye opener. It was like, oh, wow, okay. I still have a lot of work. Like, I have. Still have fears and struggles and et cetera. Right. And so that was kind of like, a good session to have. And. Yeah.

Hopeful.

I told her I was like, hopefully I was helpful.

Like, it's funny, I did an interview with her as well. Okay. She asked me a question. I'm like, that's a really good question. She's like, katie, it's your question. I was like, oh, yeah, that's right.

Yeah, it was. It was really good. And things that came up was the struggle of trying to communicate to my ideal clients, which I brought up in the call. And that's why I'm doing that second round of interviews, to try to massage that.

Yeah.

And so still something that I'm working on and that. I don't know, I think I'm like, I need to take a break from writing just because I'm getting bored of the repetitive. Like, I need to write every single day, and I need to get over that slump.

Yeah.

And so that's another thing that I'm working out.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, and.

And mixing it up. Hi, Susan.

Hi, Dina.

Mixing it up and, like, telling stories from your life, you know, and sharing bits about yourself and then bring you back into content about your idea. Like, that's a really way for you to keep it fresh, too, you know, because then you feel like you're really connecting with people and you feel like, oh, my God, like, people are really resonating with me as a human. You know, that dopamine hit too, of like, other people sharing their stories in the comments and liking and like, you know, offering it's on your experience and things like that. So. Yeah. Awesome. All right, I want to. Dina and Susan, what are you celebrating this week?

Making it here.

Good, good, good, good. And Dina.

I'm resting today.

Okay, guys.

Yeah, I normally work a lot, and today I was working so much less. And I'm watching the movie the Holiday.

And I look awful, but I love that movie.

Yeah. So just preparing some dinner for my son and I start to dial in to. To listen, and that's my only work today.

Okay. Okay, good.

I'm invite. I'm invited to a podcast.

Oh, fabulous.

Yeah, Carrie. Carrie introduced me to this guy who does a podcast, Optimistic. It's called the Optimistic. I can't remember now. And finalizing that workshop with the female leaders in Lithuania.

Awesome, awesome. Sweet. Okay, cool. What questions do we have today? And Monica, was that good enough on your question? Oh, we were.

Oh.

So augmenting your content on, like.

Yeah.

Doing video and doing written stuff and sharing picture. This is honestly the biggest challenge of running the business. Right. Like, staying interested in talking about the thing forever and ever and ever. This is why, like, so many of my clients will start with one niche and then evolve to other things. Right. Simply because they get bored talking about the same thing over and over and over again. Yeah, right. And so check in with yourself on that too, because, you know, if you're getting bored already and having a hard time, like, keeping your steam going for this, then that. That might be a sign for something. You know, that's how I felt with the dating niche that I did in the beginning. I started getting super bored talking about people's dating lives. I'm like, I fuck. Can't fucking hear about one more first date. Can't do it.

Yeah.

You know, so, yeah, just. Just keep. Keep a finger on the pulse there. Okay, Makes sense. Yeah.

Awesome.

What else we got?

I don't know if you have any suggestions, but I don't know what other groups to become a part of where my ideal clients would be hanging out. Right? So, like, I am part of different meetups where data people are there and I'm giving presentations and all of that, but that's not necessarily where my ideal clients would be because they're trying to transition and they're all over the place. So then I'm like, I have no idea where to Even like hang out to reach out to these folks.

Yeah, yeah. You and I are kind of in the same boat with this. Right. Because I have no idea who's thinking they want to start a business and leave their job.

Yeah. You know.

You know, there's understanding, like what kinds of professions. Yeah. Data adjacent. Yeah. And, and also, like, not necessarily just that, you know, like, like what are the professions that you're seeing most people wanting to transfer out of? That's an option. You know, teaching, nursing, whatever.

Yeah. Teaching is a big one.

Yeah.

Journalists as well, because, you know, they don't. Yeah. Because they don't have. They don't. Newspapers are dying, so all of those have to find new jobs.

Yeah.

Where do journalists hang out?

Well, they're easy to cold target as well if you search on LinkedIn. But I know, like, I used to be a journalist. That's why I told you this, because everyone I went to school with, I mean, granted, it's been over 10 years, but still, no one is still in journalism.

Yeah.

And data is the popping thing right now. Even when I talk to people, a lot of people are telling me they want to move into data because that's where the jobs and the money are.

Right.

So maybe even just going to general tech events. So not necessarily focused on data.

Yeah, yeah. Like events where people are like wanting to rub elbows with potential hiring managers and things like that. Also, Monica, you know, if you're going to be doing any kind of consulting for companies like, yes, go to data events. Go for very. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For that stuff. Because that, that's going to be very relationship based. Right. And then, you know, while you're chatting with people, while you're making friends, you know, if you're talking to say, a hiring manager and you're saying, oh, what kinds of applicants are you getting right now? You know, they may be saying, oh, you know, we're getting a lot of applicants from this. This isn't this. And you know, some of them aren't qualified. You can say, oh, you know, I actually have like a whole mentorship program or coaching program helping people do that. Like, you know, if there's anyone that you see that like is an awesome person but doesn't have the qualifications, like, if you ever want to like, send them my way so that I can really help them get into data, like, you know, I would really appreciate that. And also, like, they could become a great candidate for you.

Yeah.

You know, Susan, I'm in Phoenix, Arizona.

Yeah.

Yeah. And also, like just inserting yourself into the Conversation online, you know, going and seeing if there are any, like, teachers, journalists, you know, whatever other profession who are really active on LinkedIn, who share profession a lot, you know, going in, like, you know, commenting on their content, writing about the struggles in journalism right now, writing about the struggles for teachers right now. All this stuff, you know, once you start talking about that, they're gonna. They're gonna see it. They're gonna, you know, see your content. They're gonna comment, they're gonna, like, they're gonna start following you. They're gonna start feeling like you get them. You know, you're all. And you're already well versed in what's going on with them. And then you're offering kind of this option to get out of the tough situation that they're in. Right. Or like, you're just talking about helping people go from journalism into data. Maybe they know a friend who wants to go into data.

Yeah.

You know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes we can go to spaces that have our ideal clients. Other times we have to start creating spaces that.

Okay.

Our ideal clients. So, like, this is a version of creating a space that attracts my ideal clients. Right. Because especially the fourth Friday. And when I used to do this every week, like, as an open, lazy webinar, you know, I had no idea who was going to sign up and show up. You know, people from all different backgrounds.

Yeah.

I. I do office hours. Kind of like a ask me anything type open free thing on LinkedIn once a month. With that, I thought it would be some kind of, like, people coming in and asking questions, but I'm not getting a lot of people attending.

Yeah.

So marketing, that is.

Yeah.

You might need to adjust the name.

So.

Okay.

Like, get a job data, office hours. You know, it's more specific to the goal that they have.

True. Yeah. Office hours is okay. Yeah, yeah, that's done. Okay.

I started off this call, used to be Friday office hours, but I would have a subtitle. It's like, if you have questions about how to get clients, how to do marketing, how to do sales, your money mindset and running a business, then come with those questions. Right?

Yeah.

Because it is very open.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, when you just say office hours, people have to understand exactly what you do and who you help and what you're doing. You kind of have to tell them, here's who I help and here's what I do, and here's, you know, my expertise. So. Oh, thank you, Susan. That's awesome.

Yeah.

I'm dropping unsolicited things because this is what I'm doing now.

Okay.

Is honestly, it's quite just crazy what you can get when you're not even like, for example, I have. None of them have converted yet, but it's still already some leads. Like, I go once a month to an entrepreneur meetup where they're not really my target audience because they're doing their own thing. They're already well set up and they're happy. And it's actually just. It's a meetup because we're all sad. We work alone. So it's for us a time just to kind of talk about business and go and drink together. But it's been really great because meeting people, they know what I do and they've told other people and they've referred people to me, and we've had chemistry calls and it wasn't a good match. But nonetheless, I got the clients, like, potential client calls from just going to this networking event that I go to once a month with entrepreneurs because they tell their network. So it can just. That's why I just dropped these networking things in.

Yeah.

Because it's just great just to do general networking. Because when people hear that someone's struggling, they might add two and two together and they had such a great conversation with you that they're going to say, oh, I met someone the other day who does this.

Yeah.

Yes, yes. And I love that chemistry. Call that term.

That's.

That's awesome.

Yeah. Well, and also, like, any group that you can claim membership to, if you're a certain religion, go and network within your church or your temple or your synagogue, if you have certain hobbies. So, like, you know, I used to like networking at knitting groups. I could absolutely do that. If there's like a cosplay thing that you do. Like, you could go to a cosplay group and network there. What else? Sports. Like, if you do the sports. I don't do the sports, but you could do the sports.

Dog park dances.

Dances.

The most sporty.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What else?

Um, I just want to say, Katie, like, if you even look like for Monica, if you look on meetup, I'm actually super jealous. All the things you have in your city. Every one and fifth event I want to go to. There's one that's making mosaic lamps. There's a board game. Meetup, Social justice, book club, bar crawl. I'm like, what? You have such cool things here, so might want to check that out because it's helpful, I think, sometimes just to hang around people.

Yes.

That's A good point.

And to get out of the house and not be working all the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, very, very helpful friends with someone, they're more likely to want to help you. Doesn't matter, matter if like you started off just wanting to network. Like, if you generally build that connection, they're gonna always go to bat for you. They're gonna always think of you if they hear someone talking about what you do and how they help. Like that. So makes sense. Yeah.

Awesome.

Very helpful.

I went to a networking group in Darien, Connecticut because I'm thinking about moving to that area. And it's like a women's entrepreneur group. And then like I paid to go to the dinner after this, this panel and networking hour and I'm sitting next to, you know, it's like a small group. It was like eight women, three of which were on the panel. And I'm sitting next to one of them. We're kind of talking about how she's trying to teach her kids about money and we're talking about money mindset stuff and all, all these other things. And I made friends with a few other people who didn't come to the dinner and they were asking who was at the dinner and I was like, oh, you know, like this person, this person, this person. Jenny, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, jenny, do you, do you know who she is? And I was like, she's a lady who has like a mindset, you know, card deck or whatever, connection card deck. She's like, she's Ray Dalio's daughter in law, which I don't know. Do you know who Ray Dalio is? He's like a billionaire investor in the United States, you know, like. And I was like, oh, like, no idea. Absolutely no idea, you know, but like, you just, you never know who you're going to run into or like the people that you're going to connect with in certain situations, you know. So anyway, does that help?

It does. Thank you so much everyone for all the input.

Yeah, you know, it's, it's fun to just kind of go on like a friend making adventure, you know, like, challenge yourself to make a new friend every week.

Oh my gosh, that's overload. I mean, I mean, once a month.

Once a month. For my extroverts, once a week.

It.

Is a muscle because I'm, I mean, I know I show up as an extrovert, but I am not. Like, I need to decompress after I talk to people and I go into my little book world but it is a muscle. It does become easier because at first when I started networking, I was like, God, I don't want to do this. I don't want to go talk to strangers. I want to lay on my couch with my cats and drink wine. But then it really, I promise, like, the more you go to them and you meet cool people, it doesn't feel as draining on your introvert self though. Just food for thought.

Okay.

Something, something I do is I get politically involved. So like I'm helping a state rep right now get elected and actually her opponent dropped out. He got intimidated by our email marketing. So she's already won. And her organization that she works for, for her full time job is bringing me in to do some ADHD coaching, you know, like, and you know, I'm meeting a bunch of other people who could potentially become clients, you know, so like, you know, you can absolutely just start doing stuff that you care about and have it impact your business as well, you know, and then you feel like you're doing something in our show of a world, you know. But yeah, there was another thought. Oh, oh, co working, you know, co working places like we work, you know, and there are a bunch of local ones they usually post on their website when they have like member happy hours. And so if you just go and get a day pass on those days usually like then you can just stay for the happy hour or for like whatever event if they're doing any special events, like go to those special events, go to lectures, go to things that like there's someone speaking and then people hang out and chat afterwards.

Okay, yeah, that's helpful.

Yeah.

And Monica, I wanted to ask you, do you also offer some trainings to those who are already in data?

So that's kind of what I'm adding on is doing corporate trainings in the security space, but I haven't really fleshed that out too much yet.

Yeah, do you want to?

Or, or I'm trying to. Yeah, because I'm, I'm trying to leverage my LinkedIn learning stuff to get into.

That space, you know, and also like, if you start posting about that, I imagine people who want to get into data will see you as this person who like knows a lot about data and they'll say, hey, how do I get into data? Yeah, and then you can say, I actually have a coaching program for that. Do you want to talk about it?

Yes.

The thing bigger. It's easier said than done. Just brainstorm. Yeah.

Oh, I'm working on my TED Talk too.

Oh, nice.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, one of the things that I'm teaching my, my clients is in strategy especially is to brainstorm. Because normally we walk into a meeting and we're already advocating that choice, and that's the other. And we don't actually give any opportunity to come up with ideas, even, you know, us as individuals. So I always say when we approach to that excess exercise, here are the rules. We're not evaluating, we're not judging. This is now a quantity game. Every thought that comes in, write it down and move on to the next.

Right?

Yeah, yeah. And some great ideas. I mean, maybe majority will be bad, but one will completely be a game changer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a couple clients right now that I'm having working on failing more. Failing more. Go and fail, you know? Yeah, go fail four times out of five.

Yes.

Go do something that like you're gonna just crash and burn because like, chances are you won't actually crash and burn, you know, but also when you do, you'll sensitize yourself to it.

Yeah, I, I teach that when I'm teaching like programming and whatnot. I'm like actually break the code. That way you can figure out what's happening on the back end, how to fix it, how to remediate, move forward.

I used to do that knitting. I would go through someone's project and drop a stitch on purpose and I'd be like, yeah, yeah. And when you can't, I'll show you. I'll, I'll be here. Like it's not a reple, but like, you know, you have like this is going to make it less scary for you to do.

Yes, yep, I get that for sure.

I was actually a very nice knitting teacher. I wasn't mean. What other questions do we have today?

Maybe I can ask. I mean, I was like, usually I have lots of questions today over zero. But I am preparing for different talks and workshops that, and presentations that I'm arranging. And do, I mean, how do I need to approach it? Do I need to practice it? I mean, just like, I don't know, some random.

Okay, so we need to narrow it down. What are you like, are you going to give a speech at an event? Are you doing a webinar? Are you going to be doing this within a company? What's the context?

So one of the three engagements that I'm now working on is it will be a 90 minutes strategy workshop and the organization of the female leaders is asking to do like 45 minutes presentation and 45 minutes workshop. And I suggested to do it. 30 minutes presentation and a 60 minutes workshop. And I don't want to repeat the mistake that I mentioned a few days ago of that woman that didn't know how to manage time.

Right.

So. And one of my principles in my work and in strategy is that you cannot plan it because it really depends on the client and I come and ask questions. So sometimes with this assignment you don't know how it will go. I do come prepared with a framework and a structure and I mean, are.

You asking about the presentation or are you asking about the strategy session?

Both, both. What I like, I will prepare obviously and I'm on over prepare. But I just thoughts to raise it and see how to.

Okay, so I have two different answers. Okay, so like for the presentation. Yes, prepare it because you don't want to leak over because you don't want to eat into the strategy time. Right. And you want to talk about like what's important, not how to do the important things. Right. You want to like, because obviously like a 90 minute strategy session you can only offer so much and if you try to give them too much, it's like they're not going to be able to digest. You know, it's like if you sat down and ate a 4,000 calorie meal, like your body is just gonna like, we're pooping this out, this is too much. You know, not to get gross. But anyway, so you want to like give them like, here's the high level of what's important and here's what we're going to be going through in this 60 minute strategy session. And you want to set the expectation for like, this is like 60 minutes is not going to be enough to build out your whole strategy. But we're going to talk through how to start thinking about approaching the strategy. And I'm going to show you in some examples how to do it. You know, and then I keep alluding to, you know, this is a process that I do with my clients and it usually takes multiple days, if not multiple weeks and this and that and the other thing. But like, let's zoom in on one part so you really understand like the approach, the philosophy behind it. Because at the end of it they may be like, this is incredible, we need more of this. How do we bring you in like for a bigger project or to like really do all of it.

Right. So still give the full overview and then dial into just one. Yeah.

So the presentation could be like, here's the important bits that you have to look at when you're looking at your strategy and what's important about them. And you say, you know, like, and you give examples like, you know, I had this one, I had this one company that I was supporting, and they thought that they needed to be focusing on this. But once we dug into the research here, we realized that this, there was this market they weren't tapping. You know, it was so impactful. You're not telling them anything that's, that's like directly useful to them in their organization, but you're helping them see why that thing is so important.

Yes.

You know. Yeah.

And you're my case studies. Yes, exactly.

Exactly. And so. And then you're going into, you know, we're going to be doing a version of this in the next hour. You know, we're going to zoom in on one part and it's going to help you get really, really clear about this portion. You can kind of show the timeline of all the strategies and, like, zoom in on, like, it's going to help you with this portion of it because then they can see all the other bits that they're not getting.

Yes. Now, I was thinking to create like a mini playbook again, just a taste and to. For them to take notes, so to be an engaging session. And so I should once again focus on few boxes, one page or two pages. Right. And.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you, and when you introduce it, say, you know, this is just a couple pages of what I do for. In my, in my complete playbooks for my clients, you know, but this should help you with X, Y and Z. Like, here are the results you should get from just doing these two pages. You want to constantly talk about, like, the problem it's going to solve and the outcome they're going to get just by having this little piece of the puzzle.

Right, right.

Then their mind is going to go, oh, awesome. If this solves this problem and gets me this outcome or helps me do that, you know, faster, better, whatever, what would it be like to have the rest of it too?

Yes.

Right.

Right. Yes, yes. Thank you so much. And you know what comes to mind? Sorry.

With this organization. One more question. Is it one company or is it a group of people who work for different companies?

The letter. Yes. Yeah.

Okay, cool. So you want them all imagining bringing you into their organizations.

Yeah.

You know, and at the end you can, you can say, you know, if any of you have any other questions, if you're curious about what getting the full playbook looks like, here's how you get in touch with me. Or if it's in person. Like come and meet me at the bar. I'm going to be having a glass of wine.

I'd love to chat in the morning.

Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be having a glass of orange juice. I'd love to chat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I have a little alcohol problem. Come and join me. If you're in France, it would be a different story.

It's a bit frowned upon if it is before midday. People do look at you with this. I went to just my local coffee house down the street and someone was drinking on a Tuesday and it was 10:01am and she was there for a while. Like the wine was almost gone and I was like, damn, lady, you even started before 10? Yeah, no, it's a random Tuesday.

Let her do her, you know what for some stuff. Anyway. Yeah, but that's how I would do that. But that's a great idea for the like two pager playbook, you know.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Thank you so much. And yeah, you again. Yeah. You know, like I'm constantly thinking like, how can I reinvent myself? So. And I, I, I'm so proud that I am. I've been in situation. I don't want to go into details, but recently where I would pitch my services to friends. I mean natural, close friends.

Yeah.

But they would respond to me and would make me feel so then that. Well, not in a good way. And, and I would always respond with full confidence and very calm and like. And I wouldn't feel bad. But again, it doesn't happen all the time. We just like. But it's like a progress. I can see a progress. So thank you. I mean sessions of, you know, I'll.

Have it all in you. You all have it in you. It's just realizing that you don't have to prove yourself. You don't have to prove how much you know. You don't have to prove how smart you are. You don't have to prove that you can do this. You know, quiet confidence communicates a whole lot more than loud confidence.

Yeah, yes, yes.

Like we can all think of that like mid-30s guy who's like railing on about his opinion in a meeting and it's like, okay, dude, shut the fuck up. Versus, you know, the other person in the meeting who is listening and asking questions and has just one sentence to add.

Who.

Who are you going to afterwards to ask more questions of?

It's obvious.

Yeah, yeah. So like we get to lean more into that client confidence. Obviously we're doing so like Marketing ourselves, you know, but we don't have to prove how smart we are. We don't have to prove, you know, how many pies we have our fingers in.

Oh yeah, yeah.

My mind always then gravitates towards the squeaky wheel, always gets the oil. So then it's like. But I do need to.

Yeah, yeah. I mean there's a.

Myself.

There's a difference between beating the drum of I help these people do these things. I help these people do these things. I help these people do these things. I help these people do these things. And like see, I know this and see, I know this and see, I know this and see, I'm an expert here. And I'm an expert here. Right. Like that's overwhelming. Like people don't know how to take like you are an expert at this thing and this thing and this thing and think, oh, that's helpful to me. Or that's helpful to my friend Tim. Right. Whereas like I help people, this person do this thing. I help this person do this thing. I help this person do this thing. Oh, Monica helps that kind of person do this, this thing. That sounds like my friend Tim. I should introduce them, right? That who she's talking about sounds like Tim. Ah, I've made the connection now. Right. If you're talking about like I'm just saying this, you're talking about SQL all the time, which I think is a data related thing.

Yeah.

You know, if you're talking about SQL all the time, like I have no idea what that means. And if I have a friend who wants to get into data, like if I'm not making that connection, I'm not useful to you as a, as a referrer, you know, but you're not also giving me the thing that makes it easy for me to be useful to you. Right.

And what are the applications of the data role? Is it. Are you a programmer and are, is it BI business intelligence?

It's very complicated.

Like this is why really make it clear to the late person like who, like what kinds of jobs people going after.

Yeah.

You know, what kinds of things do they want to do within organizations? You know, I've started.

Modifying my messaging to do you want to become a data analyst? Because I think that's better for people to resonate than just saying getting into data.

Yeah.

That's helped me at least clear my mind and be more specific. But again it's, it's process of how to, you know, reformulate my communication.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My mind goes to data analyst. D.A. dumbledore's Army, Defense Against Dark Arts, Defensive Arts.

But yeah.

Yeah, anything that like, you can do that's playful and fun, that like connects dots for people, do it. Just have fun with it.

Yeah, yeah, I've made a lot of those alignment charts from, from D D. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Those are fun.

Yeah. Katie, I have a question for you. When are you going to conquer the bigger stick stages? Me.

I was actually talking to Carrie Barrett about this the Yesterday. She was interviewing me using my own market research. And honestly, for me it's like, it's a question of time, you know, like working in my, like working on the business versus working in the business. And right now, like, I just don't have the time. I don't have the time to like seek out those, those talks. I don't have the time to travel to them. I don't have the time to like, there's so much stuff I'm working on. I just, it's kind of like on the back burner right now. And also I don't want to be away from my dog. So I, like.

I feel, feel like you, Well, I don't know why, but you know, I, I, I work with all this, like leaders. Right. And, and you also, to me, on the same shelf. And like, the visibility for some reason is so limited. So why. And I mean, I want the world to be better and it will be better when you are more visible.

But, you know, thank you. You know, but it's.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's. Well, it's funny, you know, I, I'm kind of proud of what I've built with my smaller following.

Yeah.

You know, like, and it's really cool and where I'm at in my business, just to give you guys some insight so you can kind of see what may be, you know, in your future is there's a point where like, what you've built is not scalable. You, you cannot scale it. Right. So I was working primarily with one on one clients until I rolled out this group and then like, I rolled it out once and I was like, this is good, but it's not good enough. And so I changed some stuff and then I was like, this is better, but also not what I want. And then I've changed it again, so it's now in two parts and I'm adding more content to it. I'm, I'm updating a lot of stuff and it will eventually be scalable. It'll eventually be something that I can grow and I can enroll more people into and It'll, it'll really have hands on. So like what I have coming is I'm going to be bringing in like copywriters who can do edits for you guys. I'm going to be bringing in like David Fryman to do like legal sessions. You know, I'm going to be bringing in people on my operations team to like walk through like different technical stuff to really help out. But of course like there's cart horse like enrolling the clients and then bringing them in because those kinds of things will be expensive. Right. Because I'm not just going to hire someone who says they're a copywriter. I'm going to make sure that they're a really good hyp copywriter. Right. And then. Yeah. And then there's other stuff that I'm working on also that I'm rolling out. So, you know, it's, it's, it's. You kind of have to like build the thing, maintain it while you're building this thing that can then scale and then start working on scaling it, you know, so it's, it's.

Sorry, to me, it's not really about for use for the sake of scaling. It's really. And again, I don't, I always see it. It's like I see. So in your case, it's again the same pattern that there is a gap between how you are when I like, yes, I'm your client, but I'm closely work and I see, I follow your work very up close between how I thought you were.

Explain more.

Your perception you're in the digital world does not match who you are in, in real world. And, and it doesn't mean that your perception is really good, but it can. I mean the perception is here and you are even beyond this. Well, thank you, thank you.

I appreciate that. Yeah. But you know, there are a lot of people who it's flipped like their perceptions up here and they're delivering down here, you know. And I want to make sure that that's never the case. Like I want to make sure that once people get in the door they're like, oh, this is either the same or better. You know, it is intentional. It is intentional to like build the quality and then go and promote the quality.

Yeah. So again, I don't want to just like Susan said, to give unsolicited advice. Right. That it's a reflection. Because once you reflected to me on so many occasions. Like you told me, I hear fear or I hear not what you're saying, not the story that you're to start talking about, but I hear something else, so. Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I'm. I'm literally always like. Like, you know, I think it's so rare to be surprised. Like, generally, we are. This is what I'm constantly aspiring to, to be inspirational, to have that aha moment or. I never thought about it this way.

Yeah.

And with you, I mean, I get it all the time. And we all. I mean, I'm sure that we all experience that all the time. So just, you know, Katie, you know, sometimes.

All right, well, let's move this back to you guys, because this hour is for you. What other questions you guys have?

Oh, I have another one. But, yes, we can leave it to the end. I. I don't get bridgeton. I. I tried several times, and it's so boring. And it was. I felt really bad about it because I really wanted to enjoy.

It's okay. You don't have to get it. It's not for everyone. It's not for everyone. I like it, but you don't have to get it.

Is it better if I move on to the second season or to like or.

No, if you don't like the first season, I don't think you're gonna like the rest of them.

I'm just on the second episode and.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, it's such a bummer because I'm looking for great movies to watch.

Yeah, that's a great thing to post on LinkedIn. It's great.

I did today.

Yeah. What other. What other business questions do we have today?

I. I put together, like, a media page, I guess I'm gonna call it on my. On my website that just shows all of the different podcasts I have been on, all of the different other people's podcasts that I've been on. And I'm trying to think of a way to promote it without sounding like I'm like, hey, look at my stuff. I don't know how to promote it.

Let me ask you the question. What's wrong with you saying, hey, look at my stuff?

I hate talking about myself. I'm still trying to get used to it.

What do you hate about it?

Talking, for one. That's hard. Why would people listen to me? Because I feel like I look at the numbers of those podcasts and they're, like, really low. Because I feel like just people don't want to listen to me anyway, so that I'm like, I don't know.

I don't know.

Okay, so.

Like, what do you know about the numbers of the podcast in General. Have you gone and looked at all the other episodes?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, I'll look at, you know, I've been on XYZ podcast, and I'll look at all of their other podcast views, and they'll have, like, thousands of views, and then I'm like, 150 views, and I'm like, well, I'm boring. Or other.

Those other episodes, do they have a broader audience?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Yeah, yeah. So, like, my podcast, just so you know, like, I have episodes that, like, pop off to, like, a thousand listens in one week. I have other ones that are at 150 for months. Right. There's, like. It really depends on, like, what people are searching for, you know, and relevant it is to everyone. And there's sometimes just no rhyme or reason. And it's. It's very easy to take data out there in the world and to turn into meaning. Yeah, right. And do it all the time. Oh, like, they looked at me funny. They probably don't like me. You know, people didn't listen to my podcast. Oh, it wasn't interesting enough. You know, and to a certain degree, like, we can. We can look at the data and we can say, oh, cool. Like, here's what I can glean from this. Maybe I need to change the marketing vest, or maybe the keywords need to be different. Right? But we.

That.

That part's not on me. Because that's, like, their podcast, right? Yeah.

Like, it's out of your hands, but you're taking data of, like, here's how many listens there are. And, like, I'm not worth listening to. As someone who works in data, how big of a jump is that? I'm asking.

I mean, yeah, it's ridiculous, but I'm just in my head.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, like, let's look at Martha Stewart. She literally got famous showing people how to fold napkins. She got famous showing people how to do basic things, like make eggs. Right. Like, she. Like, what she did was not groundbreaking. It was just. I'm gonna. I'm gonna zoom in on this thing, you know, look at me, you know, gathering eggs from my chicken coop. Okay. You know, like, we don't get to decide whether people find interesting.

I agree.

But then also, like, that makes me think, because when I'm on other people's podcasts, I promote, like, how you can transition into data and all of that. And because those aren't getting enough views, in my opinion, I'm just like, well, do people not care about transitioning into data? Like, should like that type of thing.

So that's a different question. Yeah, so we'll get to that. But like, the fact that the hang up you have about pointing to yourself and saying, hey, listen to me, Come and see me. Come and. Come and read my stuff. Come and hear me talk, you know, like, that is a space to do some work. Yeah, right? That is absolutely space to do some work.

There.

There's the topics that you're talking about that's separate.

True.

Yeah, yeah.

There's nothing inherently bad about saying, hey, come and see me, look at me. Right? But how many times were we were we told growing up, like, don't be an attention seeker, you know, like, you're doing that just for attention. I see you. You know, especially those of us with adhd, right? We were trying so hard to fit into this neurotypical world, and like, sometimes we got it wrong and we got upset or something, you know, or we made a spectacle of ourselves accidentally, you know, and everyone's just like, oh, you're doing this for attention, aren't you? Right? Because if an neurotypical person did that, it probably would be for attention. You know, if a neural neurotypical kid just had a tantrum, like put on a tantrum one day, it's probably for attention. It's probably to, like, manipulate and get what they want versus, like, someone with adhd. Like, you're emotionally dysregulated and none of the adults are helping and emotionally regulate you because they don't understand what you're going through. That's not seeking attention, that's being emotionally dysregulated. Right? So, like, at a base level, like, we're terrified of saying, hey, look at me, look at me. Right? Because we think that that's inherently bad. It's not. It's absolutely not. Because if you're saying, hey, look at me, look at me, I want to help you, hey, look at me, look at me, like, I created something cool. You know, people get to choose to look or not, right? If anyone has a problem with you saying, hey, look at me, look at me, like they're assholes and they get to be blocked.

True.

Right? Versus okay. And then the topic about, like, you know what you're talking about, maybe, maybe the topic does need to evolve. Maybe, maybe it needs to evolve into something that's a little more specific. You know, like the top five interview tips when you're applying for a data analyst role. Right? Something that we're seeing is the problem, you know, getting into data might be too big. Of a thing, you know, you might need to narrow it down into. Here's the more concrete problem that they're saying is hard.

Yeah.

Right.

And then if I get into that, then I feel like I'm overstepping other people that talk about that very specific thing.

Well, who gives a fuck how many.

People are out there?

People how to start businesses.

Yeah.

Am I overstepping on them? Because I'm also teaching people how to start businesses and I'm doing it in a different way. I'm doing it with a different focus.

Yeah.

How those people are teaching people doesn't work for everyone, right? So if there's like 15 of the population that, like, the programs that are out there just doesn't work for what the are they supposed to do, right? You, you not pointing to yourself and saying, hey, I do this thing, I can help you is actually taking away opportunities from them. Right? Because your program is what's going to work for them, whereas the other shit doesn't. Right. I can't tell you how many B school dropouts I've had from Marie Forleo because they signed up for her program. And, like, it works for some people. It doesn't work for everyone. Right? And I say that as a B school dropout. I did the first module and I was like, this isn't gonna work. This is not, this is not the, like, sense. This is not the order that I know will work for most people. You know, You know, the way we do stuff resonates with the population of, of the planet, not necessarily everyone, but, like, the fact that we're doing it, we have it, like, it's. It's kind of selfish of us not to call attention to it because otherwise they're not going to see it and they're not going to get that help that works for them. Right? Yeah. You know, and, and it goes beyond your methodology. It goes to your personality. There might be like some, like, fun way that you explain stuff with your sense of humor and the references that you make, that really just connects with someone, that they trust you. You know, I had this conversation with a client the other day. You know, once you lose trust with your coach, it doesn't matter how much good advice they give you, you know, if you don't trust them, if you don't have, like, that basis in the relationship, like, you're going to feel very resistant to any work that they give you. So there are people out there who are far more likely to trust you than they are these other people. It doesn't Mean, these other people aren't good. It just means that they're not going to have the same impact with these people.

People. That helps.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's both about you and not about you at the same time.

All right.

That didn't help.

Yeah. Yay.

The stuff that we don't realize, like, goes into what brings people to us, you know, our personality, like, how serious we are in certain situations, our sense of humor, our political alliances, you know, all these things our clients will feel either aligned to or not aligned to. And, like, they get to sort themselves in or out. Right. And then it. It really, like, we have to share a lot of it because, like, the point here is to help these people get to where they want to go. Yeah. There was something I was taught early on, you know, because, like, when you start coaching, sometimes you do a coaching session with someone and they're, like, angry at you, and they're, like, really resistant, and they're just arguing with you the whole time, and you're like, do I suck? Like, and then you end the call and you're like, oh, my God, like, should I refund them? Like, they didn't get anything out of that session.

Right.

And then you're just like, oh, fuck. And normally, a couple weeks later, you get a text from them being like, it clicked what you said in that thing. It pissed me off so much, and I've been so angry about it. And, like, I had this conversation, and I realized, oh, my God, this is my pattern. You know, other times, like, you'll do a session with someone and you'll think, oh, like, this is their main point that they're taking away from here. This is, like, the most brilliant thing that came out of this session. And then you'll say, okay, cool. What's your main takeaway from this call? And they'll say something that's completely different. Completely. Besides the point. Something else that they. They figured out for themselves throughout the session, and you sometimes have no idea how they got that point. And the point here is that we don't get to decide what's useful to our clients. We don't get to decide that. You know, there's a point where, like, we get to show up and do our stuff, and, like, they get to take away what's useful to them.

Yeah.

Right.

And how do you. Because you just describe the situation that really resonates because you hit the nerve for them.

Yeah.

How do you talk about it? Do you tell them? I mean, like, yes, this is.

This is not a them thing. This is a self management thing. So you, you get to be on, you get to be with their discomfort.

Yes.

Like. Right. Like if they're just uncomfortable with something or if they're like really struggling with something, you get to offer yourself as like, I'm here to support you through this, but like, you know, this is what I'm seeing is getting in your way. Like you, there's a codependency thing that kind of, kind of comes out of this where you want to fix it for them. You want to make them feel better about the whole thing. It's not your job.

So the job is just to reflect and live with coaching.

With coaching. Yeah. You know, we're not here as coaches. We're not here to be our clients best friends. It can happen. I often become friends with my clients. Right. But that's my personality. Right. And, but it doesn't mean that I'm not afraid to piss people off in our sessions. I'm not afraid to like reflect stuff that they don't necessarily want to hear. Right.

And this is what a great consultant is, not to please you, but to reflect. Right. Yeah.

And of course there's a balance between customer service because you're a business and setting the expectations that this is going to be the relationship. Sometimes, sometimes you're going to say, I hate you.

This sucked. Yeah, like that My client was texting me and he said, fine, fine. And I said to him, stop shouting at me.

This conversation kind of morphed into a different thing, but like.

But you know, I made my other part, Chris, cry, I mean, several times. And then my attention. What?

Yeah, yeah, so. But I want to bring it back to the question Monica brought up. You know, our success, our level of success will always hit the ceiling of the level of our shame. Whatever your level of shame is, that is how high your success can get. Not that shit. It can't go any higher. So whatever being seen right there, that's where. That's the, the max success.

You're gonna say it again.

Yeah. The level of your shame dictates. Dictates the level of your success.

You need to get rid of the shame in order to break that ceiling of success.

Yeah. You have to love.

You have to like raise the, the bar on what you have. Shame. Shame on, like we're always gonna have shame about some stuff. But like if there's something that we have shame about, like being seen, like how are we going to be seen and be super successful if we're terrified of being seen? Just doesn't happen. You know, if we're. And it doesn't matter what. And we're going over on time, I hope that's okay. If you have a fear of being loved, of being unlovable, like, our nervous system doesn't understand the difference between lovableness, worthiness, attention, money. And the universe doesn't understand the difference either. So if we're resistant, resistant to accepting love or attention or money, like any one of those, the universe would be like, cool. You don't want any of these things.

Great.

Cut it off. Done right. This is why starting a business is usually the catalyst for a lot of people going to therapy, right? Because all this. All the shadow work comes up, you know, all the things that you're ashamed of. Like, you're terrified of people finding out about it, you know, so here's your homework. Or I want you all to write a list of all the things you're terrified your clients will find out about you. And it'll. Some of this stuff will be ridiculous, you know, Some of the stuff, like, well, why would they ever find out about that? You know, like, I'd have to tell them, and why would I tell them? That doesn't have any. Any bearing on what I do. But make the list and really understand what's. What's the stuff that you're holding shame around, because that is always going to be the ceiling of your success.

How to get rid of it once you recognize it, just say bye or.

No, that's. I mean, it takes work. It takes a lot of work. Takes a lot of work. The first bit, don't get overwhelmed with, like, getting rid of it. The first bit is understanding what you have. Shame on. Okay. Bye, Susan. Deal. Okay, main takeaways for today.

I liked when you said you can absolutely do what you love and have and have that, like, somehow transform into helping you with your business. So I need to go back to dance classes.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I can't wait to hear how it goes.

All right.

I do have to bounce right now. Thank you so very much. Of course.

Of course.

See you soon. My takeaway is to identify my shame level and work on it. Yeah. Beautiful. Katie, you're the best. Seriously.

Thank you. And I have to jump, too, but it's like, have a great weekend. Rest, enjoy the holiday.

Okay, you too. Bye. Bye.