Brave Biz Labs - 29th August 2025

I'm trying to stop engaging.

It.

Good morning, everyone.

Good morning.

How's it going?

It's Friday.

That good, huh?

Good morning.

Good morning. No Tesla today?

Nope.

I'm at home today. Do you have the day off?

No, not really. I never have a day off, Katie.

Oh, man.

It's always something. I'm always doing something or driving somewhere or whatever.

Yep, yep, yep. Well, welcome. Happy Friday. What are we celebrating today?

I'm not at work.

You're not at work. Not at work.

Else.

And I'm on a day off that's up. I got into a mode where I was like, I want to put things away, and I did too good a job.

I know that feeling. I'm kind of in the middle of it right now.

Oh, God, Kevin, what are you celebrating as you walk away?

Oh, I'm still here. I'm just closing the door just in case kids come home and they're like, hi, dad. Kind of on a coaching call right now. I mean, I don't know. I guess in general, I think I've done some pretty. Pretty good work this week that I'm proud of.

Awesome.

To not. To not get into too nerdy of specifics.

Yeah. Awesome. I was actually thinking about YouTube yesterday, because there is a networking group that I joined that's for, like, fractional people specifically, and Lauren Lefkowitz joined it. I'm referring a few clients who do work kind of similarly to you or who can plug into companies the way you do. It's called the connective. If that's something you'd be interested in, I'm happy to refer you in. It's like 100 bucks a month. But it is. It's. It's not like bni, where, like, you're required to refer into a group of people. It's nationwide, and it's like, if you meet someone who you could refer to, then go for it. And everyone. You can actually get paid for your referrals in there.

That's cool.

So, like, you know, if they say, like, there's an accountant in there, like a fractional CFO or. I'm sorry. Yeah, cfo. And I refer them to someone, and they get that business, like, whatever. Their referral fee would go to me.

Cool.

Yeah. So if you want an intro into that, I think that would be really good for you.

If you don't mind, I'll keep that in my back pocket. I'm not in a spot where I have a ton of Runway right now.

Fair.

I'm in a rough spot.

Okay.

Not super rough. Like, the lights are on, the kids are fed everything in terms of. What's the word? You know, business? Liquidity. I don't have a ton of hopper there.

Okay, cool. Well, yeah, well, just keep it in the back of your mind.

Sure.

Will do. Thank you.

Of course.

And.

Hi, Margaret. What are you celebrating today? What am I celebrating?

That it's Friday.

Yes.

And that we have a long weekend and I just seem to be craving maybe unreasonable amounts of downtime and quiet and curling up with my book and so looking forward to having some. The capacity to do that without any conflict or voice telling me I should be doing something different.

Yeah. What. What's the voice in your head that's saying that's unreasonable?

Oh, well, because it's like, instead of everything on my to do list.

Yeah.

You know, like. Like, when does self care start to.

Yeah. I'm just going to mute you because there's a little bit of background noise. Oh, here we go.

Never mind.

You muted yourself. Never mind. You know, it's funny. Every single time I've had a really long to do list, and I've had that urge just, like. Like, down, power down. If I've tried to push through and do the to do list, it takes me, like, 17 times longer. Right. But if I allow myself to power down for whatever amount of time I need to power down, and then by the time I get bored, I can, like, bang through that to do list like. Like nothing.

Well, here's hoping.

Yeah. Yeah. So full permission.

Yeah.

Yeah. Awesome.

Sometimes you have to slow down to speed up a little bit.

Yeah, yeah.

It's true.

I'm like.

I'm good at giving myself permission to, like, take an afternoon or a couple hours or, you know, a long lunch or. You, like, if I really, you know, I feel like I need that. But when it keeps going for, like, days and then two weeks, and it's like. Then I start to get a little. A little, like, you know, a little crazy.

Well, it's funny because, like, there's the power down and I. So when I was living in Philadelphia, I found myself on Saturdays, like, I'd give myself, like, a super long to do list because, like, in my mind, I'm like, okay, cool. I'll go and do all my chores and all my errands, and then on Sunday, I can relax. And what would happen is I'd wake up, I'd take Luna for a walk, I'd come back, I'd be, like, drinking coffee, and I just, like, sit there, like, frozen on my Couch. Like, you have to go and do this stuff. You have to go and do this stuff. You have to go and do this stuff. And then, like, hours would pass, and I'd be, like, on my phone, and I wouldn't have gotten anything done. And then I was like, you know, maybe I need, like, just to turn my brain off completely in the morning. So what I would do is I would take Luna out to pee. I'd come back, I'd, you know, make coffee. I'd turn on a movie that I'd seen a gazillion times, and I'd sit there, and I just watch the movie. And sometimes I would get through the whole movie and then even start a second one. But at a certain point, either in that first movie or in that second movie, I would get up and just instinctually start, like, tidying or doing stuff in the kitchen. And it's like, at that point, it's like, oh, my brain had enough of a break, Right? So, like, for me, and I don't know if this is the same for you, but for me, when I start getting bored and getting up and doing things, that's when I know, like, I've had enough rest. Right? And then if I'm still pushing off, doing the thing, then I know I'm just procrastinating at that point.

Yeah, Well, I mean, I certainly. I am very familiar with that feeling of, like, okay, I'm ready now. Right. Like, it's not work to make myself find motivation. Like, I'm just ready, you know, I'm not sure. For me, it's so much about boredom, but, like, there's just this moment. But then I get worried that it won't. That it won't happen. I guess it always does eventually.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You've also been carrying a lot, you know, like, your partner had surgery. You know, you've been bopping around from different areas. You've been doing stuff in your business.

Yeah.

You know, that's a lot. That's a big mental load to carry.

There's been a lot going on.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

Give yourself some grace.

Thank you. Yeah.

And, Tommy, what are you celebrating?

We always start the end of the week. A nice cup of tea. You know, it's. It's another week. Don't get me wrong. I wish I could think of some right now, but my brain's not firing off on all cylinders. Just. Just being sat at the bar is, you know, by the sea is my happy place. I'm winning.

Yeah. Awesome. Okay, cool. I Wanted to share a little lesson that I've learned the hard way with you guys, just so you don't make the same mistake. So I don't know how much you've been following the different things that I'm up to. So, like, I have. I have my business, and then I've started the Gay Birthday Club, the nonprofit, and then I'm actually doing a little bit of, like, political consulting for social media for, you know, different Democrats that are running across the country. And I have three distinct TikToks that I use for all three. Now, my business account, I've had for almost three years now. I started it in January, two and a half years, just. Just beyond. And I have just shy of 3,000 followers on there. And I have worked to build that up. Like, it has been so much work, is so much content, so much engaging. But I also use it personally. I also like, you know, follow like. Like stuff that has to do with my hobbies. I like recipes. I share funny things with friends on there. Right. I started the political thing when I was running is actually my campaign account, and I only engage with, like, local Cape Cod things and different political things on that. Started that in the beginning of March, and I have over 2,000 followers on there right now, so just shy of 3,000 in two and a half years. Just over 2,000 in March, April, May, June, July, August, in six months. And then in the Gay Birthday Club, I started that in June, And I have 1600 followers. I'm sorry, 1800 followers. So June, July, August, three months. And on that account, I only engage on LGBTQI, you know, affirmative content. So I was talking to my social media person last night, and because, like, my Instagram also, I use it for business, and I use it to, like, you know, engage with my friends and send them funny things. And here's a cat video, and here's a cute dog video, and here's a cool recipe I think you'd like. And literally, it's taken me five years on that account to gain 200 followers in addition to the ones I already had. Right. I've gotten business from it. Right. But it's taken a really long time. And so she had kind of a come to Jesus talk with me yesterday, because I also have my political account on there, and I also have, you know, the Gay Birthday Club account on there, and they're growing slower than they do on TikTok, because Instagram is different, but they're growing with more intention, you know, and she's like, listen, you are shooting yourself in the foot. So I just, I, I started another account on Instagram so I can, you know, move my engagement over. There did too many things to try to move things over and it got blocked for a week because it thinks I'm a robot. So don't do that. But like, you know, wherever it is that you are growing your business, you know, if the algorithm is that finicky, just want to be very, very intentional around, you know how you're using that account, right? You want to make sure that like, like Margaret, if you decide to do more like anti perfectionist people pleaser coaching and you work out that niche and you're on Instagram for that, you only want to engage in stuff that's relevant to that niche.

Right?

You don't want to see a video of like a recipe and send it to your son. Right? You don't want to do all the things that I have been guilty of. Right? It's hard to do because like, the algorithms are very, very addicting. They get to know you very fast. It'll show you stuff that it thinks that you want to see, but you just, you have to, just when you log in, only engage on the things that make sense for you. Okay? Now this is Instagram and TikTok and, and to a certain degree, threads and blue sky. This is not LinkedIn. Okay? LinkedIn. If you go too far into the niche like you, you limit who, like all the people who can see it who are married to your ideal client, who have a former colleague who's your ideal client, like, it doesn't help you that much, right? So like, if you're especially like on LinkedIn, if you're a member of a podcast, which I don't recommend, like, you know, I don't know. If you don't know what a pod is, it's like when you post something, you then share that link with a group and then everyone goes and comments on it. And the reason that's bad is because, like, it trains the algorithm that the only people who will comment on your stuff are people who are desperate for followers themselves and desperate for engagement themselves. And those are not your clients. So I share this as a cautionary tale. Do you have any questions.

On the, on the pod thing? Yeah, I mean, I know people will like pay to join these groups and everything, and these people you don't know, but what about if you're kind of in a. I, I find myself kind of in a de facto pod? What do you mean that we all just kind of decided to start running Together,

if that makes sense when you say we.

Who.

Who's in the pod?

Anybody. Anybody. From just former colleagues to friends of former colleagues. Some people I know personally, some people I don't. And we're all just liking and reposting

and

all that kind of thing. It just kind of happened.

I mean, is it like you. You share your post to a group and then everyone goes and does that, or is it just that they see your stuff and they like it and reshare it and do it out of the goodness of their heart without being

asked more, more the. More the. The latter just kind of like, we kind of. There's kind of this unspoken rule of, okay, if you see something from, you know, somebody in our little click, you, like, share.

I mean, that's not bad. I mean, it's. Is everyone doing it so they can get more followers and get more engagement?

That's the idea.

Okay. And then are you all kind of in the same area, the same kind of industry?

Yeah, there are a few people that are out on the kind of the edge. Like, one dude is actually a. He. He actually helps people monetize their podcasts, but then he's also connecting, you know, people like me with people who want to interview tech people. And yeah, there. It kind of. There's a. There's a lot of overlap, but we kind of all are in our own

little spheres, so it doesn't sound so much like a POD as just like a group of friends that support towards each other. Okay, right. Like, the POD behavior that's really troubling to me is that it is an organized group and it's immediate engagement. Like, you post it, you share it, it gets immediate engagement. That tells the algorithm it's fake engagement, for one. It's also the ftc. It could now actually get you fined because if you're getting fake engagement that you're paying for, like, people. So when you go to an account and you see they get a ton of engagement, what do you think?

They're either popular or they paid for it?

Well, yeah, I mean, but you're in the know. But, like, the. The typical person would think, oh, my God, they must be, like, really successful and they must, you know, really know what they're doing. Sure, I should. And, like, it gives them credibility. So if you're paying for a POD and, like, getting all of that fake engagement, the FTC can actually find you, like, $52,000.

Oh, fun.

Yeah. If a client signs up with you based on that, like, fake credibility and then gets pissed off they can report you. But I mean, there's always going to be, if you're using social media correctly, there's always going to be like a group of people that just really like you and want to support you and want to reshare your stuff and comment on your things and like your things. I will say for the people in your group, if you're doing this on LinkedIn specifically, stop resharing each other's stuff because it hurts everyone's algorithm except for the person whose stuff is getting reshared. But if you resharing things, it's actually tanking your algorithm.

Okay, does that include stuff that I reshare from my own business page?

Yes.

Okay. Yeah. LinkedIn is Janky AF. So if you share a link in any of your posts, like, you are far less likely to get any engagement on that post. Including a link to another thing on LinkedIn.

Does that include if the links in the comment?

No, no. If it's in the post. Yeah, if it's in the post, you can, so you can do a couple things. So if you, if you're posting something that has a link to your business or to like book a call or to like a link to sign up to a webinar that you're doing, what you want to do is you either want to say the link is in the comments and then share it in the comments, or you want to go back and edit it like a half hour later and then you can put the link in. Huh, Interesting. Yeah. The only exception to this is if you're doing it with the purpose of making that post a featured post, because then you don't care about the engagement on it. What you care about is that it's straightforward enough that people can just click on it.

When you say featured post, it's like, hey, such and such company came out with this new thing. Click here to find out. Or is that a different kind of thing?

Here, let me show you. Let me share my screen.

Hold on.

Why are we being weird this morning?

Okay.

Okay, there we go. Okay, so when you scroll down, so you have your profile here, you have all your activities, all your posts, and then you have your featured posts, right? And so these featured posts, like, for instance, like, this isn't that many. Neither is this like, for engagement. But what matters here is that I shared it with the link. So, so that when people click on it, it goes to. To the thing that I'm having them go to. So. You see what I mean? That's what I'm talking about.

Okay.

But yeah, for your, for your group of friends. I love that you guys support each other that way. Um, you know, just make sure you're not doing it immediately after people post.

I don't know. I mean, I've got enough connections. A lot of times I don't see it till a couple days later.

Right, Cool. Yeah. So, I mean, that's just, that's organic engagement where you guys are just supporting each other. Yeah. You know, and that's going to happen.

Oh, sure.

Yeah. So I like the preemptive guilt, but you're not in a podcast.

Well, I was more, I was more worried about the, the whole, like, algorithm thing because, like, you know, hacking this stuff to try to get better engagement is just. Ain't nobody got time for that.

No, no, no. And honestly, like, right now LinkedIn is going through an identity crisis. It really is. I have full faith that it's gonna, like, backtrack and, like, sort itself out. So it'll be good for everyone again. But for everyone here, one of the things that I started playing with is kind of transferring over to substack, because the same that you post on LinkedIn is going to work on Substack. Right. And like, if you're writing it for one place, you might as well be posting it in two. Right. And kind of like, like broadening the baskets that you have, you're putting your eggs in.

Now, is it, is it word for word or is it like, like how I did the short form, long form thing that I sent you the other day?

You can do either. Honestly, you can do either. So, so the approach that I'm going to be doing, because I'm kind of redesigning how I'm going to be using social media. So. And like, getting a lot more strategized with my TikTok content and my Instagram content is I'm going to be picking a topic every week. I'm going to be writing a long form sub stack post about that. And that's going to be for paid subscribers on substack. That long form, I'm then going to break it up into like seven little subtopics that I'll be doing little TikToks on. And then I'll be like saying, hey, like, if you want to learn more about this, follow and go subscribe to my sub stack. I have, like this week I have a full article on this for my paid subscribers. And then. But most of my content is free. And then at the same time, I'm going to be going through and of Course, I have a full bank of old LinkedIn posts that I can use. You guys don't. Okay, so this is going to be a little different for you. I'm going through all of my old LinkedIn posts, and I'm basically just rescheduling them on LinkedIn and then I'm scheduling them on Substack. So those are going to be the exact same, but that's going to be the free content that my client, that my followers will get. And then at some point, when I can wrap my brain around it and I actually, like, develop the technical skill to do it, I'll be turning that same topic into a YouTube video that I'll be releasing once a week.

Cool.

Yeah. Again, pushing people to substack, you know, because the other cool thing about Substack is that, like, you can charge $8 a month, you know, and I think substack takes like 10%, but the rest of it goes to you, you know, so it doesn't hurt to have some people who are paying for your content.

True.

What about.

Have you ever looked at Medium? Medium?

I have. It's hard to grow, and a lot of people are moving off of Medium right now to go to substack. Yeah, the thing. The thing about it is, like, whenever you want. So here. Okay, so you want to create content that is going to be placed in an area or a website that people are already coming to. Right. Blogs used to be big because, you know, if someone were searching a topic like, like tomato soup from Tuscany, you know, it would. It would send you to this blog that, like, of this person who either loves Italy and spends a lot of time in Tuscany and they have this amazing tomato soup recipe, or they, like, collect different tomato soup recipes from around the world. Like, and then you discover their website and then you might follow them. But the consumer of content behavior has changed over time. We no longer want to go to an individual website to follow things. We want it to be where we hang out.

Sure.

Right. So Medium's great because the people who are on Medium and who read on Medium are devoted Mediumites. The only problem is that they have to pay to be there. And anytime you have to pay, you're limiting. All the people who would like to read your stuff who might be interested in reading your stuff, but, like, they're just not, like, willing to spend money on the, like, the rest of the content that you need to sign up for on Medium. Right. Substack. Right now, it's. You can create content that's completely free for some Clients for some people and then you can have some stuff that is pay gated. But there are people. Like people will discover a substack, naturally through SEO. You can push them to substack from other places. You can build your email list through substack and then. Yeah, it's just, it's more discoverable for your ideal clients. I think especially with what's going on with LinkedIn right now and with journalism in general, people are spending a lot more time on Substack. So yeah, it's worth looking at. And if you're, if you're doing the work for one, you might as well be doing it for the two. Sure.

Actually, substack, you only pay them whenever you get paid.

Exactly. It's free for you, 100% and you can share links galore in your content. It doesn't, it doesn't hurt you. So I'm putting together a whole training on substack. I'm actually going to be like including it into Missing Link as well because I don't want there to be a program that I offer that covers something that has. Is changing and not as effective. Like I want it to, you know, cover all the things. So keep an eye out for that. I'm hoping to have it done by next week, but you know, I'll let you guys know as soon as it's ready. Okay. Yeah. All right, that good enough. Okay. What other questions do we have today?

I have another related one, but I'm gonna.

No, no, go for it. Nope. The squeaky oil.

Go.

Go for it, Kevin.

Lead magnets. Because this kind of leads into the whole lead. Lead magnet thing of building your email list. What's the, what's the, the formula for. Okay, so say I'm using substack or some sort of. I'll just call it a sync.

Yeah.

The end. The end point of the user journey.

How do.

What's the formula for building that, that funnel or that, that path, that user journey?

Oh,

I mean, there are a lot of different ways, so I'm just going to lay out a few. Okay, so, and, okay, so let's forget substack for a second. Right.

Because.

And let's just think about, you know, the traditional trajectory of a lead magnet that gets people on your email list. Right. So the anatomy of a good lead magnet is it's helpful telling people what to do, but it doesn't tell them how to do it. Right. Because if we tell people how to do it, they have no reason to book a call with you. But if we tell them what they need to do, and we acknowledge the areas that they're struggling with and we normalize it. It'll make them realize, oh, okay, like, I'm. I'm not a horrible human being. I'm not dumb. You know, I'm not fucked up beyond repair. But, like, these are the things I need to look at. Still don't know what to do within those areas. Okay. But this person who's just given me some guidance of what I need to look at, they seem like a really good resource for me. Maybe I should book a call with them. Right? Like, 95% of the time when someone downloads a lead magnet from you, they will eyeball it. They will, like, look at all the main things. They'll never read it. But then they're on your email list and what they've done is they've said, hey, listen, I'm interested enough that I want to get emails from you. Right? Your job then is to remind them every week or every other week that, hey, I exist.

Hello.

By sending them, like, a quick note for you. It could be, you know, here's an update that I'm seeing. Here's like a small glitch that's happening across the system. You know, here's something that you want to pay attention to. You know, short, sweet, to the point, and then you always want to invite people to book a call with you. You know, if you're mid migration and this is happening, you know, and your. Your team just does not have the bandwidth for this, then book a call with me. I'd love to help. Right? So it's just. And also for people who are, like, interested in potentially working with you, but they're like in between a bunch of different things, and they just stumbled upon you in that moment. Like, signing up for your newsletter or downloading a lead magnet is a way for them to remember that you exist later, right? It's like they want to. They want to explore this. It's like when you're. I don't know if, like you're in a big city and you're like, on your way to dinner, and then you walk past the street and you look down, you're like, oh, my God, this looks like such a cool street. There's street art, there's like, cute little shops. I really, really want to come back here. I have to remember this. Maybe you drop a dot or a little pin to remind yourself to come back another day when you have. When you have more time. You're not late for a reservation or to Meet friends. It's the same thing with a lead magnet or your newsletter. Right. So the lead magnet has to be something that is. That answers a question that they're already struggling with, or it has to be something that, like, shows them, like, tips and tricks. Like, here are the seven healthiest foods that you could eat for clear skin, you know, what have you. I don't think that would be relevant to your ideal clients, but you know what I mean, it might be. Who knows? But. And then for substack, it's a little different because I don't think you can do, like, a lead magnet, per se, but what you could do is you could have a premium substack where you release, like, a report every month on what's going on in your industry. Right. And so what you could say is, hey, listen, like, you know, you can get my normal content that has the occasional tips and tricks, but if you want the full report every month, then you have to sign up to pay for my substack. And then from there, anyone who's paying you can follow up with. You get their. You get their email address. You could send them, like, a personalized email and say, hey, listen, thank you so much for signing up. I'm curious what's going on within your environment that made you want to get my report every month, you know, and you can invite them to talk to you from there. You know, for you, Kevin, like, it's. No offense, but, like, your industry, you're not going to get, like, 200,000 people on your email list like that. You know, if you get 200 who are interested enough in the content that you create that specific. Specific to what you do, I bet you there's like, a solid 10, 20 ideal clients in there that you could land in the next few years.

It's. It's very much, you know, big whale hunting.

Yeah, exactly.

I guess the part where I'd struggle with. With the. The part where I'm a little confused is, like, when you say what to do but not how to do it. Yeah, it's. It's like, because I'm. Because I'm. I'm in a little bit of a. Of a. Of a niche where, like, I'm in technology, and they're like, oh, well, what to do but not how to do it? Oh, I got to make this. This application faster. Yeah. Anybody who looks at this kind of thing is gonna go, no, no, dip. Like, yeah, like, the. The people I'm talking to already know what. They just don't know how. How to Start. So, like, how do I, how do I frame that a little differently?

Yeah. Okay. Can you walk me through a process and just full disclosure, I may not understand anything you're saying because you do something that's very technical. Can you walk me through, like, how you would describe, like, how to solve a problem? Just pick any problem.

Well, it's. I can actually probably kind of describe it like this. You think of it like when you're, when you're talking about like, say, you know, in a particular system, you're, you're addressing performance. You know, this big, huge system. Say LinkedIn is slow. Well, there's numerous, numerous subsystems behind that. What you have to apply is what's called the theory of constraints. Think of that like the flow of water, right? Where the smallest inlet or outlet is, is the first thing you address. And then you move to the second biggest outlet, third biggest, fourth biggest, and you just keep knocking down these barriers until your performance improves overall. Yeah, kind of, kind of like with your, your car, you know, you're not getting good gas mileage, and the one thing that is going to save you is changing your oil, whatever it is. I'm not a mechanic, but you're like, oh, I tried changing the brake fluid, I tried greasing this and doing that. It's like, but you got to change your oil first. You got to address that one. You got to smallest outlet first, period.

Yeah, I mean, how you just explained that that's lead magnet worthy because you're not going in and saying, like, here's the thing that you need to look at in this little portion that you have to fix first. Here's all the metrics that you have to look at, here's what it should look like, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So at the end of all this, you can say, depending on, like, how you're using this, you know the metrics are going to be different that you're going to want to look for. This is going to be different. And like, if your team. And you also want to like, create some qualifiers in here. If your team is already working like more than three hours of overtime each a week, you guys don't have time to do this, right? Like, it's gonna make a lot more sense for you to bring in like an external party to come in and do this for you, Right? So, like, another example of this is you can give people, like one helpful thing. Okay, so here's a helpful thing. Okay, so everyone stand up if you can. We're gonna do a Squat. I'm gonna. I'm gonna walk you through how to do, like, a really effective squat. Okay? All right. So most people do squats like, they're just sitting down, and what happens is, like, their knees can go in. You can see all the books on my floor. Your knees can go in, they can go out. Like, you get sloppy with it, right? But what you want to do is you want to imagine that your legs are like corkscrews, and they go outwards. So when you do a squat, you want to imagine that you're almost screwing into the ground and then again screwing more into the ground as you go up. So you're like, screw. Like, you're making your legs kind of rotate a little bit without moving your feet, right? So I'm explaining this to you. I'm not looking at you. I can't see if you're doing it right. Like, I can explain this in a lead magnet. And in your head, you're like, oh, my God, this makes so much sense. Or I'm not really sure what they're talking about, but, like, that sounds like something that should be helping me do a better squat. And then about the benefits of getting, you know, doing squats, you know, if you. If you. God, I'm out of breath from doing that. I'm so out of shape. Don't trust me for workout advice. I mean, take the advice, but, like, you know, I don't follow through on it. I used to be really into. But, like, I can give you. I can give you advice that, like, shows you I know what I'm talking about. But you're probably not going to do it, right? And then I can talk about the benefits of doing squats. When you're working out major muscle groups and you're making them stronger and you're. You're helping them grow. What happens is, like, you actually end up burning more calories, right? Because muscles, like, need more calories to run than fat, which means that you're probably depleting your fat stores, right? And then also, your legs look really fucking hot, right? You know, you start wearing shorter skirts because you're like, I want to show these puppies off, Right? So, like, you want to. You can give people, like, one nugget that's really helpful, but the rest. You want it to be in metaphor. You want it to be kind of like giving examples and talking about outcomes. Like, here's the one thing you need to do. You know, if I were doing a lead magnet on the sales call, I wouldn't want to give, like, a full script of, like, what people have to say on a sales call. Right. What I'd want to say is, like, in the very beginning of the sales call, you have to tell. You have to set the agenda. You have to tell people how the sale, how the call is going to go, and that at the end, like, you're going to have a buying conversation. Right? Oh, okay, cool. And, like, and I can explain, like, when you do this a, they're able to relax and, like, actually talk to you for real in the beginning because, like, they know that the money conversation's happening at the end. You're not going to, like, jump onto the first vulnerable thing that they tell you and try to sell you shit. Right. Also, you sign up for it. You basically say, hey, listen, I'm going to be talking about you buying my thing at the end. If you chicken out, you look like an idiot. You're less likely to chicken out of that if you tell them we're going to be having this conversation at the end. But I don't tell them. I wouldn't tell them. Here's exactly what you say for this, right? I'm telling them. Here's what you need to say, not how they need to say it. Right. I might tell them about the, like, the importance of being silent, of asking a question and letting people just be with the silence. And then I might say, what's going to be hard about this for you is this. I'm not telling them, here are the questions you need to ask, You know? Or I might tell people, here are the questions you need to ask and then not explain the rest of it. Okay, right. Because what you want them to read is like, wow, is this helpful? But, like, I still can't do this. This is helpful. It's helping me a lot. But also, like, I still feel like I need help with this. Because, like, for the 5% of people who go and do it, like, you don't want them to not need to call you. Right. You also don't want your clients who pay for your expertise, who pay a lot of money for your expertise to read and be like, what the man? I paid $10,000 to hear that, and you're giving away for free. Like, what was my money for?

So, Katie, can I just sort of ask a question, slash, sum up in my own brain how I'm processing what you're saying? So the what versus how is sort of like the what is the theory. So, like, going back to Kevin's example, in order to improve performance you need to fix the smallest pipe. And then the how would be that you don't put in the magnet is, oh, by the way, here's what you look for and here's how you do it, and blah, blah, blah.

Exactly. Yeah.

So the magnet is like, here's what you need to look for the smallest pipe. And then the rest of it is like, this is why that matters.

Right?

And this is why you'll be so much happier and richer and get laid more to use your laid, paid and live longer idea. And then book a call with me and I can show you how.

Exactly. Exactly. And, Kevin, I'm totally making up that Maybe there's like 17 different software programs that you use to help you identify, like, where the sticking points are in the system. You know, you could say, here are my top five favorite software systems that help me when I work with clients to identify, like, the things that are slowing down their system and costing them money. And so you might, like, have, like, here are the five things. And then you talk about, like, here's one, and here's what I love about it. Here's like, the environments you can use it in. And the benefit to this is, like, it helps you identify this, this, this, and this. You're not telling them how to use it. You're not telling them, like, exactly how to input it into their system. Right? Here's the second thing. You know, it. It subs in for what the first thing doesn't do. It looks at this thing. And what I love about it is that, like, once you figure out this part in your system, here's the benefit. You know, the third one is a problem most people don't realize that they have is this kind of general thing that goes on. Right? And this software helps me gauge, like, when I. When I run it on your system, it helps me gauge if this is happening or this is happening and this is happening. Right? It's kind of like when you go into the doctors because you're like, you're limping because your ankle hurts. And your doctor's like, okay, you're limping because your ankle hurts.

Cool.

Like, did you hurt yourself? Like, what happened? And you might say, like, I don't think I hurt myself. Like, I've been training for a marathon. Like, I've been feeling really good. And your doctor might be like, okay, well, did you turn your ankle at any point? You could say, like, maybe. I don't know. Like, I was. I was trail running the other day, so maybe I did and I didn't Realize the doctor could say, okay, cool. So like, here's what could be going on. You might have pulled a tendon, you might have sprained your ankle and then just been like so pumped full of adrenaline that you didn't realize we could also have like a stress fracture happening. Right. I won't know until I do an X ray and do some tests. Right. It's helpful. It's. Here are the three major problems this could be. Right. And also like, we just don't know. So there's a reason for you to like engage more with me because we have to do this test. Jennifer, does that make sense? Yeah.

I've been watching a lot of House lately, so it's good metaphor.

I. If you haven't seen the movie Britney Runs a Marathon on Amazon prime, it's really, it's really good. It's like, it's a feel good movie. It's like a fall in love with yourself kind of movie and like, like yourself kind of movie. And that's where that metaphor came from because she gets a stress fracture anyway.

Yeah, sorry. It almost sounds like these are, are pretty versions of a LinkedIn post or could be. Yeah. Yeah. Like if I'm going to write a LinkedIn post. So I've got a whole series in my head. So to answer your like, what the hell are you talking about Question from earlier, I've been, I'm now in a position where I can do some tech training from home. So I'm learning Python. Doing a lot of learning Python. And so what I've been doing is taking notes as I'm going through as to what I need to do to make my learning easier.

Yeah.

And what I need to do to facilitate my learning. And I have a series of posts that I'm going to do. So like the one this morning I noticed was, oh, I'm color coding my notes and here's what that does for me. So the post might be about. It's going to be solely about color coding notes. And here's why that can be helpful.

Right.

And that can be a lead magnet.

It can. Or you could do a lead magnet

of

like the three things that will help you do X. There are the three things I do that help me achieve X with my teams.

So a little bit more than just the color coding.

Yeah. I do this. It helps them like remember this and. And then I also do this thing, but it doesn't teach them how to actually teach. Right.

Yeah.

Let me, I'll share my screen again. I'll actually show you the lead magnet. I'm showing you the link to Jennifer.

You should message me on what domain you're working on and I can send you some good stuff.

Okay. I don't know what that means as far as domain, but okay.

Like are you doing data analysis? Are you writing web services? I write Python every day.

Oh, I see. It's going to be more for data analysis and visualization mostly.

Okay. I mean, send me, send me a message with what you're going through and I might be able to send you some supplemental stuff just to help you out.

Cool. Thank you. We'll do nice.

Thank you, Kevin. Okay, so you guys have heard me say this a gazillion times. People only buy three things. Getting laid, getting paid, and living longer. Right? So step number one, if you want to create a high ticket offer, the first thing is it has to solve a serious problem. So if you remember only one thing from this PDF, then I want you to remember the following sentence. People only say spend big money on three things. Getting late, getting paid and living longer. Everything else is a nice to have. If your offer could potentially add up, potentially up their chances of one or more of these things happening, then you have yourself a high ticket offer. Right. Does this tell you how to position your offer as something that will get people laid, paid or live longer? No, but it helps you like. But it is helpful, right, to know that this, these are the kinds of things that people will spend big money on. It goes above and beyond. And here I use a metaphor of different hotels, right. You know, and we really want to go for that high expectation, high end resort style. And you know, here's, you know, how that relates to what I do. So it also kind of seeds like, here's what I do with my clients, right? It's micro niched, right? The dating coach versus the dating coach for divorced lesbians who have kids. That's a great example. But do I tell you exactly how you figure out what your micro niche is? No. Solve problems they don't know that they have. Right. Has built in support. This doesn't tell you how to figure out what built in support you need to do for your service. Right. And then it invites people to book a call with me. Does that make sense? Awesome. All right, what other questions do we have today? We have 11 minutes left. We can do more on this or read something else.

I have an unrelated question. Yeah, I have somebody, I did a strategy session with her. She seemed very interested. This, you know, they don't have a lot of money, so I Know, it felt a little intimidating that, to pay for it, but I think she was super interested and felt like it was a great fit. And then she asked me to come speak to her board, which I did. And actually that felt like it went really well. But I haven't heard anything since then and I'm just wondering if you have some counsel about how to best follow up with her. It's been about a week and a half and I haven't heard anything.

Yeah. So I, so next time what you're gonna do is you're gonna, when you go to schedule time to talk with the board, you're going to schedule the time to talk with the board and you're going to schedule the, the follow up call all in one go. Okay. Because that way or like when you're talking with the board towards the end, you're going to say, hey listen, Doris is say her name is. Let's book a time to touch base after you've had a chance to do this, to talk to them. Right. For this time, what you're going to do is you're going to say, hey listen, it was so great to talk to the board. I had some other thoughts around like what you guys could find. Focus on. I have, would love to share them with you and also hear, you know, what, you know, you and the board talked about after our meeting. I have this time and this time available next week, which would work best for you. You're basically just scheduling that next meeting. You're not asking for like information on what they're thinking. You're just kind of like setting it up.

Great.

Okay.

You know, but you're also giving her a reason to show up. Right. Because you had some thoughts after that conversation. Okay. Yeah. Does that help?

Yes.

Yeah, thank you. But anytime, anytime you're going through like a multi stage thing, we always, always, always want to schedule the next call.

Yeah.

You know, and, and a really simple question is, especially for one on one stuff, it's, you know, if they need to check with their spouse, it's like cool. Like how many days will you need to check with your spouse? Oh, and it's really cute. Everyone does this. When you ask them that, they're like,

well,

you know, Timmy has little league tomorrow, so that's a bad day. We're gonna be exhausted. Uh, you know, Sunday is like we, we have to like do a lot of yard work and this. And that always gets them in a bad mood. Like I'm not gonna ask him after that, but you know, Monday we have Monday off and he's gonna go play golf in the morning and I know he's gonna be in a good mood, you know, afterwards. Even when he does bad, he just likes being out there. So I'm gonna talk to him after that. And then, so maybe we can talk on Tuesday, um, with businesses we want to say. Okay, cool. Like, how long will it take for all the, the important people who are relevant to this project to touch base and decide next steps? And it might be longer. You know, it could be. Well, you know, we're gonna have this meeting and then so, and so's going on vacation and then we do have that, that event that we're doing. So it might be a few weeks, but I think by like mid September would be good. And, and you say, great, so let's do this. Let's schedule a time to talk on mid, by mid September to touch base on next steps. And you just let me know if there's any delay in the decision making process and we can reschedule, we can move it back. Okay, Right. And if there's anyone who has any questions in the interim, then have them reach out to me directly and I'm happy to talk to them.

Okay.

Okay, cool. Awesome. What are the questions? Yes, Tommy, Hi.

So I, I was going to ask you about the balance of, and I hope you can hear me.

All right.

Sorry for all the background, the balance, the balance of commenting and posting. The reason I asked this is that my post don't get a huge amount of reach and they never have done and I live with that. You know, just the system. And recently, as you know, more than most people, the, the numbers for the impressions of a comment were like shown to the person made them and I, my eyes came out my head when I saw some of the reach that some of those comments have got.

Yeah.

Now there's a, there's a kind of sub question to this because some of those, if the comment was about something technical or you know, how to do or you know, procedural, should we say, you know, business building. Many, it probably get a light amount of rules and I've got some, you know, I, I have a, probably a bad habit of poking the finger in the eye of racists. My family background, when that comes up in an England that's coming up quite a bit.

Yeah.

But sometimes what I've noticed is when that happened that there's a certain amount of viewership on a PC now I, I know that there's a, a value level of viewership as there will be on Comments as there will be on post. But I be. I'm curious as to your opinion on. On when you comment on other people's content. You know, is there a priority for what you're looking to comment on in that, in that regards, if that's not too way an awkward way. Wouldn't question.

I love this question because I've never thought through how to articulate this before you asked it. A connection who thinks you're smart is less valuable than a connection who feels like you have shared values. Meaning if I think you and I are on the same side about racism and I feel like, oh, here's someone I can trust on this base level, right, I'm far more likely to go out of my way, even though I might not understand what you do or what kind of business you have to support you and be your buddy, than someone who I'm like, oh, cool, they seem to know a lot of shit about this one thing. They seem really smart, right? Yeah. That's not to say that like, like you only comment on anti racism stuff, right? Like in a way, like, we don't want to overthink it, right? We want to, we want to train the algorithm to show us stuff that we're interested in engaging on, right? Because if we can train the algorithm to show stuff that like we enjoy reading and engaging with, then it's going to be far more fun for us to be on the platform, which means that we're going to be more consistent with it, right? And if we're feeling engaged and like we're having fun and like, this is an interesting conversation I'm in. We're also going to be far more interesting to read, right? Our comment. Like people are going to see our comments and be like, oh yeah, like this person seems to be into this conversation. You know, it's like, do you ever see like a group of kids talking about like Pokemon cards? Like they're lit up and they're like, oh my God, this is so cool. Like, do you have, do you have this one? Like, I have this one. It has this powers. I don't know a whole lot about Pokemon. My sister and I used to collect them, but we'd only keep the cute ones. We lost a lot of money that way anyway. But anyway, like, like people will be more interested in, in you as a human being if you seem invested in the conversation, if that makes sense.

It does. And just to add a. Yeah, go back to the top question as well. Where would you put the balance on, you know, comments versus posts?

I mean, if. If we're just coming up with a really simple strategy, I would say anywhere from four to seven posts a week, no more than one a day. And I would say, like between 10 to 25 comments a day. Right. And then be sure if people are responding to your comments, go back and have that conversation. Do the back and forth.

That's great. No ambiguity. I get it.

Also, if you have a comment that gets a ton of likes, go and look at who's liking your comment and connect with all of them. That is a great way to grow your network. Good general post schedule. You know, it used to matter more. It used to matter more when you'd post a few years ago, like LinkedIn. If you posted something and no one commented in that first hour, no one was ever going to see it, they've changed this. They've kind of gone a little too far in the other direction because now we're seeing posts like a week or so after it's been posted. But honestly, Kevin, if you can post consistently, like, schedule posts like four times a week, five times a week, say, Monday through Thursday, or like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday, whatever, around like 8am if you want to be consistent with it, like, that's great. But honestly, like, it really doesn't matter what time you post it nowadays, because people aren't going to see it right away anyway. That may change. It probably will. They're. They're kind of getting. They go from one extreme to the other to the other to the other, and they always want to keep us on our toes. But, yeah, like, do what works for you at this point, but no more than one a day, So. All right, we're at time, so let's do main takeaways. Who wants to start us off? And we're going to popcorn. So whoever goes first will tell the next person who tells the next person.

You know, that remark about shared values. This is, you know, this person. Smart is going to stick with me for a while. So thank you for that.

Yeah, no, thank you for the question. And who are you picking next? Tommy?

She's on my right, so I'll just say Jennifer, but she's the next in line on my screen. Sorry.

I would say that just to continue to think through the what versus how for lead magnets and how to. How to engage. I mean, overall, for me, that's a bigger lesson.

And how to engage.

And how to. Yeah. How to separate what I keep for clients and what's going to draw them in. Yeah, Margaret, thanks.

I. I'm still, you know, noodling about substack. Just trying to figure out how to make that work. I have a feeling it's going to ultimately be a better platform for me, but I'm, you know, still just thinking about how to. How to migrate. Looking forward to your training, Kevin.

I think I need to get this lead magnet thing going. I haven't done a whole lot of lead generation to date, and it's really kicking my butt right now.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

Awesome. Okay, well, everyone, have an amazing weekend. If you need anything from me, you know where to find me. And I will see you all next week. Actually, I'd like to ask for your vote. Do we do the sprint on Monday, or do I move it to Tuesday? Monday, Monday for the month?

Yes.

Yeah, either one.

Either one's fine.

Okay, great. We'll keep it. All right. Awesome. All right, have a good weekend. I'll see you soon.

Bye.

Bye.