Brave Planning

I can taste yo, yo, yo, yo I can taste yo, yo, yo, I can taste yo, yo, yo, yo I can taste yo, yo, yo I can taste y. I can taste y.

Hello, I'm Katie McManus, business strategist and leadership coach. And I am so excited to be here with Sarah McGuire today. Sarah, will you please tell everyone what you do, how you're useful to everyone.

Hi, everyone. Hi, Katie. Yeah, I'm Sarah McGuire. What do I do? I put the fun back into dying. I help people sort out their later life planning. I don't laugh at them, I laugh with them. I do hasten to add that. Yeah. So just help me get their financial affairs in order. Help them think ahead all the things they might worry about and put their minds at rest so they can get busy living instead of worrying about dying badly. Misquoted from Shawshank Redemption there.

What I love about your content, because I. My mom actually works for a lawyer who does Will's Trust and Estates.

Okay.

And the story she tells me about, like, improper planning and how things go wrong and the infighting that can happen with people who are inheriting things and siblings, like, siblings tearing at each other's throats.

Just all the drama, juicy stuff, all the juices.

Oh, my God. I mean, like, I just want to get a bag of popcorn, but, like, tell me more. But it's terrifying.

Yeah. I find my clients aren't always that happy if I sit there with a bag of popcorn while they. When they tell me all their sad stories. Doesn't always go down well. No, no, no, no.

But. But it really is so important to. To plan ahead for, like that. That thing that we're never. We're not going to be able to avoid.

Talk about it. That thing, that big elephant thing over there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So how did you get into this?

Good question. How did I get into it? Well, it's a bit of a weird one. I've always had a bit of a phobia about death, which is I've got into it because I still have the phobia. I'm fine talking about everyone else's death. It's just my own, so don't worry about that. But I. I ended up. I worked in lots of different types of housing throughout my career, so I've worked with adults who learned difficulties. I worked with, looked after children, things like that. And my last 12 years before I started doing any will writing, I worked in sheltered housing, managing sheltered housing schemes for people over 55. So while I was doing that, really enjoyed the work and got to see a lot about what people worry about as they get older. So things like being taken advantage of, losing independence, being a burden, making sure money went to the right way and the people that have stood by them were rewarded and protected and things like that. So it led quite nicely, which I then got talking to someone who was a will writer and it ties in quite well, obviously my previous experience. Plus I like a bit of admin. Not too much, but just a little bit of admin to keep the brain ticking over. So yeah, so then it kind of led into that and I did that for a few years and then I set up my own business. Business. So that is it in a nutshell. That's.

That's so cool. So, okay, so you mentioned a couple things here that I have a question about. So you were afraid of death and so you leaned in, made your whole life about death.

Yeah, I know. And it's weird. I've always been drawn to it. What the hell is that about? I don't know. I used to do a bit of hospice work and. Yeah, just. Just. Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? Always. Yeah. Always been the big D in the cord. Not that big D. The big D before anyone gets the wrong. I mean that's good as well. But that wasn't the day.

So all the big D's, it's all good.

So. Yeah, no, no, no. Always been a bit like icky talking about it. And I'm currently doing a really good. I'm doing an end of life planning course which by the end of it I'll be able to facilitate groups or one to ones which deals with the whole remap, not. Not just the legal stuff or the financial stuff, the whole decluttering your house, thinking ahead about making household admin tasks easier, your wishes around your last days, all of those kind of funeral wishes, everything to sort of do with clients as a package. That's what I'm hoping to be able to do. And obviously as part of that we. We've done our own working through our own kind of. It's even bring me out a hot flush to thinking about our own work. But I'm thinking about your own thoughts around and yeah, dying and being incapacitated and all of that. So it's really interesting. But it's a bit icky making.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it's funny you say that. My dad, you know, has a client because he does construction and she's constantly doing what she calls Swedish death cleaning.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so she'll come over to our house because she knows that my dad has two daughters, especially during the pandemic. And she comes with like old designer bags with like all these clothes and she's like, do you girls want these? Because otherwise I'm gonna give them away. No. But she's like, I just, these aren't things that I want people to deal with after I die. And she's pretty.

It's, it's. And it's quite therapeutic but cathartic when you start doing it because then you just suddenly take a look and hi, Stephen. You just suddenly, you suddenly look at all your shite and you think, oh my God, someone's actually got to wade through this at some point. So you think, actually I better start. And there's things like your Nicodrol. I know, you just think, oh my God. Or your diary, do something about that. Because, yeah, we don't want anyone reading that and just all sorts of things. So, yeah, it's really good to start thinking about that just to make it easy because a lot of us have been in that position where unfortunately you've had a relative that's died and you've. You go through. Not only are you grieving, but you're trying to find legal paperwork or you're trying to just. This just took there from years gone by.

Yeah.

So just a way of helping your loved ones. You know, if there's anything you can do now to help them in the future, it is quite good to start, start thinking about it and doing stuff now.

Yeah. Because hopefully they're absolutely devastated by your loss. Like it's. Hopefully they're not. But if they're also, if they're devastated and they're. And they're going through all the grief of having lost you because they loved you so much, because you're a good person, you don't want to pile on more for them to do.

No, exactly, exactly. And it is, there's a lot to sort out. Not just so of legal side, which people tend to automatically think of, but. Yeah, the. Just the whole package. You know, people like, you know, both parents have died and that they're the only child, saying you've got like a whole four bedroomed house with 40, 50 years worth of stuff in to, to sort through. That's. That's not good.

Yeah.

A lot to put on someone.

Yeah.

So, yeah, get a bit of death cleansing going. So one of the things that's come out in the course is just. Is to not be overwhelmed by the whole task. It's Just to pick a little thing. So even if it's just like, like this Sunday afternoon, I'm just going to tidy out the kitchen drawer. You know, we all have that kitchen drawer that's just got all the shite in it or, or just a small thing just to go through your clothes or something just to get rid of the stuff you don't wear as often. And just things like that, you can. It's not overwhelming then just to start.

Yeah. It's almost like a different, a different approach from the Marie Kondo. Like, does it bring you joy, you know, for something joy. But like, I don't want someone to deal with this one.

Yeah. But then, same token, there are nice things you can do because things like your, you know, like books on your shelves and things like that, you could, you can write a little note in the book that. Steven. Yeah. You can write a little note in the book to say a loved one that you want to have it. And a book, a comment about why it's special to you because they may not know. So there's. That's quite nice for people then to go. No, obviously it might be a little bit upsetting for them, but it's actually quite a nice way of leaving a little memento. Right. I think.

Right. I've had to warn my family members because I do this practice and I, I probably shouldn't share this.

It's not like the garden showering you've just told me about off camera.

I'll share about that.

I'm still, I'm still in therapy about that. I'm still getting over that one.

But yeah, I was sharing with Sarah when we were getting all set up with this, that I had just taken an outdoor shower, which does not mean I'm a nudist on Cape Cod. We just have showers built on the outside of our house that are enclose. But it's raining here and it was just such a lovely experience.

You can't quite go away. You can't just have a normal chair indoors. But there you go, whatever.

There's no chair involved.

Okay. Yeah, sorry.

No, no. But I've had to warn my family and that like I, I do this practice where I like to be surrounded by money and so I stash money around my house.

We all like that, you know, rolling in the night.

It's not like millions of dollars, it's small denominations. But literally when, when I die, they're gonna have to go thing looking for, you know.

Yeah. I've got a friend who does that little Pockets. Don't all, just don't take it all to the tip because she said there's like hundreds, you know, there's thousands of pounds in there because there's lots of money just in case kind of money just in case.

Yeah. For me, I do it because I like feeling surrounded by money all the time.

Is it like a sort of manifestation? Are we gonna have to stop now? Because you know, I don't do.

It on you. It works for me.

It doesn't have to load me here under fals. You didn't mention there was going to be. Woo woo. You know I wouldn't have agreed to do it if you said that.

Oh my God. Something just fell off my desk anyway.

Money. Was it money?

No, it wasn't. It wasn't. It was a little notebook. I. I need to do some Swedish death cleansing of this desk. It's a little over too much.

Yeah, just where you can't see mine actually.

Well, I, I have a question for you because I know my mom during the holiday season and in the new year, it's one of her busiest times because a lot of people die around that time.

Divorce? Yeah.

Well, no, no, not necessarily, but a lot of people also contact them because they are like, hey, we didn't get a gift, a gift from someone or someone didn't call or they didn't thank us for the gift that, that we gave them and we want to write them out of our will.

Wow, that's petty. It is.

Well, yeah, but I mean, if you're old and lonely, then, you know, you really count on that. On that interaction.

Yes. Oh, yeah. See, Yeah, I know I've had people say like if, you know, like they've keep giving things to grandchildren and the grandchildren never ring them or keep in contact and say thank you. It's like, well, actually I was going to give them, you know, a thousand pounds, but now I'm not going to. So. Yeah, maybe that. I just thought you meant like got a bottle of perfume from Fred down the road.

No, it's. It's usually family members.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. No, there's definitely boom time. January, I think a lot of people, it's like fresh start, isn't it? New year. We've got to do the things on our to do list, the sensible things. So doing the will. But also people divorce. You know, they have enough of each other over the holidays and it's like new year, new start, get the divorce, get the wheel.

Well, they have enough of each other, but then they also have enough of the other person's family and they're like, this is not.

Yeah, yeah. They didn't get, they didn't get a gift from the in laws. So it's like, yeah, yes, fair enough. Yeah.

So you work primarily in the uk. Do you work anywhere else outside of the uk?

No, only if you pay me enough. But not, not legal stuff. I can only do Wales in the uk. Okay, cool. Yeah.

And so you currently offer one on one work and you're going to be offering this group. What is, what do those look like?

Yeah, so. So the moment. Yeah, just with the Wills Powers Attorney Trust. It's all just. Yeah. One on one with, with single people or couples taking them through the process, getting their documents in order. What I'm aiming to do end of the year, New year is, is either run. Haven't decided yet which way I might do both. But we see. But either, either group kind of sessions. So say 10 people taking them through like seven or eight weeks, getting different aspects of this end of life planning in order to, you know, including the legals, the financials, household admin, the death cleansing, things like that. I won't do it. I won't actually do it for them. I'm not going to go around and clean your house. Nice, but not that nice, although. Yeah, but you do. To help them identify what they want to do and then sort of check in and keep them accountable, that sort of thing. And then they help them do their workbook so that they've got info for their loved ones. So either run that as a group sessions or do it one on one with people if they want that kind of, of input to help them really kind of dig down and work out. Because you do need someone cheating you a bit along along the way because it is, there's a lot involved with it and it's easy just to look at it and you kind of do some of the easy bits and then you're just a bit kind of overwhelmed and a bit. Yeah, it's too much. So yeah, that's what I'm aiming to do. So. And I quite like the thought of that. It's a bit more. Not just the legal stuff. It's all. And I like talking to people so.

I think, yeah, I, I can kind of see this being kind of a transformational experience for some people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, it does, I think. Well, it makes you, first of all, it makes you appreciate life a lot more because you're kind of, you're thinking actually this is, this is Me, this is who I am, this is what's important to me. And yeah, so that's good but, but also it's just to say it's quite cathartic in it and stripping everything down, it just frees you up to, to make room. This is a bit. Woo woo. Yeah. It gets rid of the clutter and the shite to make room for more stuff, more good stuff to come to you. Oh my God, I'm turning in. I'll be having bloody crystals on the desk next.

Do I have any crystals?

Please don't tell me you've got crystals as well. I'll be doing your chakras on me, please.

Breathe, breathe, breathe. I'm curious like, what's the weirdest thing that you've ever had someone decide throughout this process?

Well, I don't know if I've had anything too weird. I've not been going perhaps long enough to have too weird. I did have the old thing people leave in their wills, gun collections and things like that. Even though it's not like mega, mega rod. You have obviously trinkets and things like that that mean something to people sometimes. I'm always a bit, I can be a bit surprised about how people want to leave their worldly goods. Like for me I, I've got, I've got children. They haven't got kids of their own. Obviously I'm far too young to be a grandparent anyway but, but yeah, for majority of people, once you've got grandchildren, it's like, well, if my kids died before me, then I'd want my grandchildren to have their share. It always surprises me, I do. I've had two people recently who, who don't want to leave. Like if say actually they've got three children, one of the, the, the kids dies, they don't want that kid's children to have their share, they want it to go across instead. And I, I just find that quite odd. I know it sounding a petty thing but I just sort of think why, why wouldn't you? But I've had quite a few people say that and I guess it's not that unusual because say it's. I have had it quite a few times but there we go, we're all different, aren't we?

Yeah, that's so. I mean it makes me think as an American, you guys have the Royal Family and that's contrary to how inheritances are supposed to happen in, in the uk.

Well, you know, they do their own thing. Yeah. Take it whoever they want.

I think a lot of Americans Think British people and people in the UK just tend to, like, follow the.

The lead. We don't all know. We don't all speak like the Queen and just cups of tea and corgis running around us. Already seen my small smelly dog? She's definitely no corgi.

So, yeah, in the uk, because this is. This is not huge here in the us, but, like, for people who have their pets, they'll actually put all their. All their worldly possessions and money into a trust for their pets.

No, I've had people leave pets. Well, you can't leave the pet large sums of money, but I've had people who've got someone in mind to leave the pet in the care of and they've given them a lot of money, like a monthly amount that they'll be leaving them because they know that that person might need to reduce their hours. I've had someone who wants to be buried with the dog, but married, so I was a bit unsure about that because hubby wasn't over keen. So I wasn't quite sure who was going in with the dog. And so, yeah, you do get the odd thing with. With animals where, well, the dog is already dead.

Like, they're not. They're not.

I think the dog is gonna be dead. I don't think they kill the dog.

Some ancient Egyptian happen.

Dogs do like digging. So if you put it in there alive, it could get messy, couldn't it? Because you could just bury the mom and the dogs just dig them up straight away. They do like digging for bones, don't they? Yeah, they do.

They do. Our dogs just dug up, like, I don't know, a whole skeleton in our. In our forest. It was small. It was a small animal, but like all these little bones.

Wow. She's not clever enough to take that, unfortunately. Well, she's got a small brain. That's the problem. It's not just her body's small. Her brain is incredibly tiny. In fact, we're not even sure there is actually a brain in there. She's. She's just. She. She tries to bury something in the garden. She spent hours out there, and the thing will just be laying on top of the mound of dirt. And then she literally. She spent hours doing it. Walk away, come back, and then just dig it all up, move it again.

Oh, that's so funny. Well, I don't know. From. From earlier, it seems like she has. Whatever intelligence she has is about manipulation for treats.

Yeah, yeah. Possibly because she knew I was about to be on now. Did she know, she probably didn't know I was about to be on camera. But yeah, she did come out and start whining with like literally 30 seconds to go, wasn't it? I need food and I didn't give you. Yeah, she's incredible. In fact, that actually means she's actually smarter than me. So that's really depressing. Actually make her cry now that my incredibly stupid dog is actually more intelligent.

Well, as long as you have your basic needs.

Meticulous. Before I came on camera, it's all good. But enough about that.

So I'm curious, like when you die.

What a very curious person, Katie. I've noticed.

I'm curious. Yeah. Well, I love, I just love this topic because it's something that we don't spend enough time thinking about.

We don't like to talk about, about it.

Right. And, and my mom works in the death industry. My, my best friend works in the death industry. I always, I always say she works in the afterlife industry, which isn't right. It's the. And I, I'm even now I'm forgetting the term, but she sells memorial trees.

She sells what?

Memorial trees. So like. Yeah, so if you don't want to have a headstone or you don't want to have your ashes scattered at sea, you can buy a memorial tree in a protected forest.

Oh.

You know, but, but it's so funny. These conversations happen all around me all the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I find people don't want to talk about it, but then as soon as you start talking about it, they, they've got a lot to say on it.

Yeah. Do you help, you help people like plan how they do their funerals?

I don't personally do the funerals, although we do have a bit in, in the will that they can put funeral wishes. Sometimes I'll have people say, you know, I want to be cremated. You know, refer to funeral plan, blah, blah, blah. Or I'll have you know, I want to be cremated. I want half of my ashes interred. I've got a lady who wants half in one of the royal parks in England and the other half in New York. And I did offer as part of my service to actually personally fly out those ashes, which I thought was really nice of me. She only have to pay for my airfare and two week holiday out there. Unfortunately she's declined. But I thought it was nice of me to offer that service.

Very generous.

Yeah. So people, people do have a few bits about their, their wishes, but specifically, you know, if they've got much more Detailed wishes about a funeral, then I'd always encourage them to get a funeral plan because I always say to people, it's all very well writing in your will, but what if the will isn't read until after. I know I shouldn't laugh, but after your funeral and say you, you wanted to be buried and we've just cremated you. It's. It's a, it's a big jigsaw to put back together, isn't it really?

Right. Yeah. It's.

Not.

That's not like, you know, moisture into the mix.

Yes. It's not going to come out quite the same, is it? So. Yeah.

Well, just throwing it out there. If anyone in the UK wants to be cremated and have any of their remains in New York, all you have to do is pay for Sarah's airfare, two weeks of hotel and I'm gonna throw in a couple Broadway shows.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. If possible like a stop off on the way home as well somewhere, some in the Caribbean.

Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, nominal, nominal money.

So I will be tired after all that lugging the. Oh yeah around and I forgot to take my own spade. Have I got it into the.

Well, yeah. It's actually illegal to do that in the US.

What?

It's illegal to just go and, and spread ashes willy nilly. People do it. But you don't want to. You don't.

You're right. Showering in the garden. But you can't sprinkle an ash or two.

Well, yeah, we have a few things backwards here.

Okay, so you can't. Yeah, yeah, okay, fair enough.

Well, and to be fair, like all of my, all of my grandparents are. Well, not all of them, but on my mom's side, everyone is like their, their ashes are spread down at the beach, in the water, not on the beach. People aren't lying on them, but you know, they're, they're in the water and they shouldn't be because I do have.

A lot of people who want to be sprinkled over beachy head here. And I think fry it must get chock a block there because everyone. It's very windy there. You've got to be really careful.

Oh yeah. Because the last thing you want is like a face full of ashes.

Oh, good. Take granny home with you. Oh, God.

Well, what, what really troubles me and, and no judgment, but like I could never imagine doing this is the people who have it turned into ink and get a tattoo with the. Have you ever heard of that?

I've heard of it. Yeah. I'M not. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not big on that either. People do all sorts of. You know, there's lovely bits of jewelry you can have now and all sorts of them, which I really like. But. Yeah, yeah.

Personally putting it in your body, I. No, thank you.

Yeah, I. I find that a bit icky as well. But it's good to know there's different options, isn't there? But absolutely constrained by having the regular burial cremation and you want to keep something close to you. There's not really any closer they can get, I guess.

So, Sarah, tell me, what is your funeral going to be like?

Oh, no, no. Like say it's constant.

You can't do it.

No, can't be doing my own. No, actually, I did see one recently as part of this course I'm doing, which I did like. But not like, hypothetically, not like me, obviously, where you're just literally digging your loved one. You're doing it all yourself. You're not using a funeral director, you're kind of digging a hole in the woods. And I. I know, but I just thought the brilliant. The commentary over the top of the video because it was saying, don't forget to get the landowner's permission. I just thought I was such a brilliant, brilliant voiceover because. Oh, whoops. Got Farmer Joel's just planted his turnips here, actually. So, yeah, yeah, do get planned a.

Guest house to go right there and they're doing it later.

Like, what? In all seriousness, I did like that idea. It was like. Like you've just sit similar to your friend. I guess it's like a nice, really nice woodland area. I mean, I have, when I go out walking with my son to the local sort of wildlife. Wildlife park. Nature reserve, park thing. There's a spot and I said, sun comes here in the evening. I'd like a bench here and then. But not just there. I want one over the other side as well, because that, you know, shady in the. In the morning here. So I want one. I want to be in the sun all the time.

Yeah. So he's.

I mean, to be honest, he's just paid lips. I'm presuming there's actually no way he'd actually do that, but that's what I've told him. I want just the two benches.

Yeah, well, you have to just be nice to him, you know.

I don't know. I try, I try, but I've lost up the bench while I'm alive, to be honest.

Yeah, you can. I mean, you could have the. The group fund it.

Yeah, I could do, couldn't I?

Free memorial bench.

Yeah, this might be an idea, actually. That way I know you get done as well. We say that he wants something done. Get a woman to do it. Two sons. It will never get done, will it? So, yeah, that's on my to do list for tomorrow, then.

Or you could adopt a daughter.

I could do, couldn't I? Yeah. I don't think there's anyone I like enough to adopt, unfortunately.

Well, I mean, you didn't get to decide if you liked your kids before you had them, so is it really. If you're going to adopt another child, is it fair for you to be able to vet them beforehand?

I guess not, no. Okay. Okay. I'll take you on board. Yeah.

Can I tell you about what I want for my. My funeral?

No. Yes, of course you can.

So I actually don't want, like, a funeral after I die. I want to, like, be at it. I want to be alive at it.

Yeah, Yeah. I like the idea of that. Let me wait.

I want, like, a deathbed party where.

I get quite insecure but playing at the same time. You want people to say lovely things to you while you're alive.

Yeah, absolutely. Want to miss it, like.

No, no. But I'm with you. Yeah. Good for you. What do you want? This. This kind of living wake thing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Big old friends and family. Oh, stand up, Do a little eulogy.

Yeah, a little eulogy. Like, memories that they celebrate about me, you know? Because here's the thing. Like, you know, you don't want anyone, like, getting up there and, like, dropping a bomb of, like, she was a terrible person.

And that doesn't tend to happen.

Yeah, it doesn't tend to happen.

But you know, the invite, you can come, but don't. You're not allowed to say anything bad.

Not anything bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No embarrassing memories. That's the thing. I don't want the embarrassing memories back, you know, because sometimes people.

Short ceremony for my one, I think five minutes.

Yeah.

Okay, Move on. No, it's a nice idea, though. I know what you mean. I have toyed with the idea. Right. Myself. Not just yet, but. Yeah.

Yeah. And then I get to have the snacks and the beverages on my way.

Yeah. All the good food. Best food. Not just some old. Because then you can just save the cheap manky buffet for when you've actually gotten.

Exactly. I don't care. You guys do whatever will make you happy then.

Yeah, yeah. Expense spared, but yeah. Just have all the. All the good stuff. And what about the actual in, you know, after any. Anything you want done, you say you didn't want to tattoo, but anything else with ashes, the water dissolving one, or do you want hung from a tree you can have until you gradually decompose?

I mean, I. I'd somehow like to be just like reintroduced back into the food chain. So maybe just shoved off a boat into the ocean.

Yeah, you could do that, you know. Okay. Yeah.

Hopefully no one finds me and thinks there's been a massive murder.

I mean, hopefully they'll wait for you to die first before.

Right, right, right, hopefully. And then they'll hang a sign like she was already dead. This is her wish. She wanted her body to be laid to rest. Don't take her out of the ocean.

Yes. Yeah, no, I think you'll get away with that. Yeah.

Well, it's funny, I think there might be like a serial killer out there. He's like, why haven't I thought of this yet?

Been done somewhere, I should imagine.

Probably, yeah. On that note, if someone wants to work with you to have their will done, to start planning how they're gonna.

No one will want to work with me after they've listened to this. There is someone who hasn't seen this, who still wants to work with me. What was your question going to be? Oh, no.

If they want to work with you, how do they get in touch with you?

Well, they, they just kind of like telepathically. Well, they can message me on LinkedIn. If they're on LinkedIn. I'm always quite friendly. If I think they're going to be a potential client, I'll be friendly to anyone. If not you, go to my website, www.patronwheels.co.uk or you can. I won't give out my phone number on here, but you can. But yeah, drop me this show.

No, just kidding.

No need any more.

Well, and I obviously couldn't have been a client of yours because I live in the US and you were perfectly friendly to me.

Yeah, that's true, actually. I'm good at putting on a front, but yes, I was. I was friendly to you and I couldn't. That is actually quite nice, I realize.

Yeah, yeah. So you're, you're.

I'm not as intelligent as I thought it was half an hour ago because the dog's out with me, but I am nicer than I thought.

So you also don't jump over the realization that you're actually a little more woohoo than you thought?

Yeah, that's true. Oh, Christ. Yeah. Literally got sweaty. I'm actually rubbing my palms now before that's made me feel quite icky.

And so I'll send. I'll send you some, like.

Crystals.

I don't know. It's a crystal. I don't know what it is.

Please don't send me crystals.

Okay. All right. Some tarot cards, so you can. You can do a reading for all.

No, not caro. I couldn't say it Carotards, because I'd probably get the blinking death one anyway. And I know you're going to say it doesn't matter. It means other things. It means other things as well. Yeah.

Okay, then I won't send them to you. But I. I so appreciate you spending time with me today.

Well, it was a chore, but I got through it somehow. Alcohol and hard drugs, but I got there in the end. No, it was a pleasure, Katie. I. I jest with you. It was a pain. Lovely. Thank you. A very good host, even despite my initial qualms.

Well, and I just want to thank our audience. David Fryman, Meredith Adam, Sean, David McURLen, Stephen Doyle, Meredith Adams. Again, I think I'm pronouncing your name correct correctly. Thank you all for joining us. I hope you found this valuable. And if you want to have, and if you need to have your will and all that stuff set up and you're living in the uk, reach out to Sarah.

Yes, You'd be lovely. I'm actually quite nice.

And with that. Thank you.

On that bombshell.

With that, I'm Katie McManus. This is Sarah McGuire. Thank you for joining us and hopefully we'll see you again soon.

Thank you. Ta. For now.