Change your life to change your life

Foreign. Hi, Katie.

Hi, Lauren. How are you?

I'm good. How are you?

I'm good. Long time no see.

I know, I know. We only just spent the whole weekend together.

I know, I know. And hello to everyone.

Hi, everyone. Welcome. Welcome. To change your life. To change your life.

Yep.

Yeah. So little background, Katie and I. Katie is my business coach and has been for us here now, today, sitting in a car together in Lewis, Delaware. Had to happen in a certain order at a certain time in order for us to. To do that. And also we both could have decided at any point to like, not make change. And we've both recently had potential clients who have decided to say no to working with us, which I totally respect, and also have had this feeling that, like, they have so much potential for change and so much opportunity and it could be so exciting for them if they did this work. Like, I get chills even like talking about it right now in this moment.

Yeah.

And. And they choose not to. And there's like, like I get a pout on my face because I. I see what could be. And I know that people have seen that in me when I wasn't ready for it too.

Right.

And so we're just gonna talk about that a little bit today. So I, you know, what do you. What are your thoughts initially, Katie, on. On this?

Well, okay. So whenever I see people in these very, like, significant moments in their lives where they know what they want and they're just on that precipice of going for it, it reminds me of this moment in my life where I was 22. I just gotten certified as a sommelier in California and was applying to jobs. I decided that I wanted to stay in San Francisco for a while, and I was applying to a bunch of different jobs and I met the guy who, who was like the sommelier at this really, really nice restaurant. And it wasn't necessarily the type of food that I was super passionate about, but it was really well renowned restaurant and it was very successful. And he offered me, without interviewing me, this role. He. He knew, like, we had friends in common, so he knew I wasn't like a crazy person. And he offered me the junior SOM position at this restaurant. I turned it down. I had literally just gotten certified as a sommelier. I'd worked in restaurants since I was 15 years old. So it's not like this is my first rodeo. It was many rodeos after. And I was, I was afraid. I was afraid of getting in. I was afraid of, like, people asking me questions and not knowing the Answer. I was terrified that I wasn't ready for it. And so I really held myself back from really getting an actual job in wine. You know, I worked in restaurants and I did some, you know, small contract work, but I. I really never dived headfirst into a sommelier role because I was terrified that I might not be perfect at it. Right. And of course, you know, hindsight, I look back and it's like he knew I didn't know everything. Like, he wasn't expecting me to know everything. He was expecting one who was good with guests and was willing to learn, was passionate, and, you know, had the basic fundamentals down. That's what he was looking for.

Yeah.

And whenever I talk to someone who is on, like, that same kind of precipice in their entrepreneurial journey, it's so painful to see them choose things that aren't actually going to move the needle for them, you know, and part of it is they don't know what they don't know, so they don't know what's actually going to help them. Right. There was this, this. These two people, these two coaches that were trying to partner together. I think like a year and a half ago, I spoke with them and they were convinced that they need someone to help them with marketing. But when I asked them, like, who's your ideal client? What's your program? All stuff, they couldn't answer any of those questions, you know, and they were so convinced that they needed help with marketing. They're like, okay, well, you know, we love, we love what you do, but also, we don't think we need this help. We think we need marketing help. And I was like, I sent them like, a very kind but just like, slow your role kind of note thing. Whether you work with me or not, like, I want you to go and figure these things out first. Because if you invest in marketing right now, there are so many marketers out there who are going to be so happy to take your money because they want to make money, but they're not going to be able to deliver you anything that will actually get you business. And in. In going and following up with people like this, you know, I unfortunately find very often, most of the time that they haven't actually started a business. They got stalled out. And I think part of it is not knowing what you don't know. And part of it is also just sabotage.

Right.

You know, self sabotage. Because if. If you do the thing and it doesn't work out well, it's not you failing, it's the Thing the marketer failed. This failed.

Right. Yeah. And I, I have that in my business too. So you help people set up businesses and keep them going. I'm not still setting up three years in. Well, maybe I am. I'm, I'm still doing new things all the time but. And I help people who are in, in a cycle in their corporate careers where they just keep saying everything's fine and really nothing's fine. And I, you know, I think we all can point to places in our careers like you just pointed to with the sommelier piece that we made a decision that we can't have things. And, and I think that happens with people who want to set up a business. It happens with people who want to change how their corporate care, their other kinds of careers go that. And I remember I had been in HR for almost 20 years. I loved it for 15 years and I didn't like it anymore. And I was working 80 plus hours a week and I interviewed for a job at a bank that was going from a really casual environment, which is very much my culture, to back to a suit up environment that I'd been in for many years before I went to the casual environment. And I interviewed for this job. And all day I'm comparing it to my job.

Right.

And playing the at least game with myself. Well, at least where I am now I don't have to dress formally. Well, at least where I am now I know that like if I need to go to a doctor's appointment, nobody's going to question me because I've built the, the capital as a trusted person. Well, at least where I am now they already trust me to do A, B and C. We're here. I'm going to have to prove myself. Well, at least. And I just kept going through this list and I decided that I should stay in my 80 hour a week job because this was the best it was going to be because I didn't want to have to re establish myself. So it was a little bit like the devil, you know. Right. Yeah. And, and I settled into this is just my life. This is just how it is. And, and then you know, the series of things happened that brought me to it doesn't have to be. One of those things was breaking my shoulders and realizing that the universe was telling me to stop hand raising and literally because I wasn't listening figuratively, one of those things was going right back to an 80 hour work week as soon as my arms worked again.

Right.

Just like right back to it. This is the life I Have. This is what I chose. And in this like self punishing way, saying to myself, like, you're a successful, well paid corporate executive, second in command to the president and CEO. Why would you want to jeopardize that by doing something else? Someday you'll retire. And I kept choosing it over and over again, despite seeing that it wasn't serving me, that it didn't feel good, that I was in full burnout. Until the day that I met my first executive coach who I told all of this to. And I said, like, this is just the way it is. And she said, if you say so.

Yeah.

I was like, damn it. And then I realized that something needed, needed to shift and I hired her and then I hired you. And here we are, you know, three years into me being a full time business owner and I can't see it any other way. And I'm like so grateful for the life that I chose. But it's like, I think we feel like. And you and I were talking about this, this weekend also, like, I think we feel like we have to suffer some level of enough before we deserve to make a change.

Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm reminded of a client I had a couple years ago who we talked over and over and over again about her needing to raise her rates. And she agreed with me every single time. And every single time we got back on the phone, I asked her, so what, did you raise your rates too? She's like, you know, and what was really hard was there was this identity thing that was happening for her. You know, it was like she identified so much with this hustle person, with this person who worked really, really, really, really hard. And so if that's who she identified as like a, she felt completely out of integrity asking for more money. Right? Because who the fuck is she to have money come easily to her? Right? And then also, like, what would happen on the other side of asking for more money? You know, like if you ask for more money and you have fewer clients because you don't need that many clients to be full time, like, do you lose your identity? You know, and it's like at every front, she just always chose the hardest way to do things. And to a certain degree, coaching can absolutely help with that. But to another degree, like, it becomes something that you have to do deeper work on. And I think what a lot of people run up against when they want to change their life is that they know the life they want and yet they're not actually willing to do the really uncomfortable work to make Those like, identity upgrades that give you, that ultimately give you permission to start acting like the person who already has that stuff.

Yeah. I mean, I still live in that to some extent.

Right. Saying totally. Yeah.

I, I can't tell you how often I still self, self sabotage and tell myself that like, what I've done so far hasn't been good enough. And, and also when I really sit down and reflect on the changes that I've made for myself and I see this in my clients too, it's like if I went back into a day in the life of Lauren Lefkowitz in 2016, I don't think I'd be able to get through the day. I think I'd fall asleep halfway through the day because I was always running on fumes and like making it work, making it happen and then sleeping away wherever I could, whatever part of the weekend or the evening or whatever that I could and then going right back to it because I decided that I wasn't, I wasn't yet at a point where I can make something different. And even when I started working with you, I had a five year plan that was always going to be a five year plan. On our very first phone call, I had a five year plan in five years. I want to be able to go part time in my corporate job, keep their benefits and have, you know, a bigger side business.

Right.

And you said, five years is a long time. And you said, how about a year and we can get you out of corporate if you want. Yeah. And I was like, oh no, oh no, I can't.

Right.

And I had all the reasons why not including that benefits felt like they would be expensive.

Right? Right.

Yeah, yeah. To go on the US open market. And you said, decide how much you want to make, add the cost of benefits to it. And then you stop talking. And I was like, well, shit.

I know, I know. It's so hard when someone, when you like manage to make something so big and so complicated, that's like, well, I can't do it yet. Like I just, there's a lot of pieces. And then someone comes and they take all that infrastructure out and they're just like, no, like, here's the two things you need to do. That's it.

Right. Yeah.

And it's really confronting. And some people, some people really struggle to be with that.

Yes. And my struggle was like, that wasn't the issue. And I find that with my clients so, so much too that like most of my clients are women and most of them come to me and they're in director, vp, executive leadership positions and their view is, I've been looking for a job for a while or I have to leave this company. Like it's, it feels like it's about the job. Yeah. And when we actually start talking and digging in, the job is the tactical thing. Me having benefits. Benefits was the tactical thing. Like that was the thing, the doing thing I knew how to do in order to prevent myself from making a change.

Right.

The thing is wherever you go, there you are. Like you're bringing yourself with you wherever you go. So if you find that new job and you already don't have the confidence that you're worth more money, that you're worth more boundaries, that you're worth not being burnt out all of the time, that you're worth having free time and weekends and a dog and whatever else you want that like if, if you're willing to put all these tactical things in place that make you not believe that, then you absolutely won't believe that you can have what you want.

Yeah.

If you're willing to say, I don't know what the problem is.

Yeah.

For me, that's the starting point that you're ready for coaching.

Yeah.

Because to, to go into another company and make a tiny bit more money when probably you should be your boss or your boss's boss and still be working 60, 80, 100 hours a week, still be saying yes to everything, still be assuming everything. Without that coaching support, you're just going to repeat the same stuff over and over in a different location. I have a client right now who's amazing, so talented, she's so smart. And she just got an offer for another job and it's, it's managing an entire group of people. Big. A big group of people. And on the job description it said something about like strategic management of agendas and, and meeting topics. And she said, I don't know if I want this job because I don't want to be buying bagels for the office.

Right.

And I said like, where is that in the job description? And she pointed to that, that bullet. And I said, I want you to like read that really slowly. Like where do bagels fit into that? And bagels fit into it because it's an assumption as a people pleasing doer that you have to do that.

Right.

So for her, this new job is going to be a playground. She's done a lot of the work already. I've been working with her for like six months. She's done a lot of the work already to recognize It. But the coaching support she has makes it so that she's not going to go into this job and buy the bagels. She's going to go into this job and ask who the bagel buyer is.

Right.

And then she's not going to spend a half hour figuring out who to order the bagels from, where do they deliver from, how much does it cost? Who has the corporate credit?

Yeah. Do you get with it? Yeah.

That's not plain cream cheese. That's what we get. That's. Let's not fancy it up. I could do chive. Yeah, yeah, but don't start, like, messing with strawberry cream cheese. What does that mean?

Yeah.

But. But had she just gotten this job and gone into it, she would have been the bagel orderer. She would have been the note taker in the meetings, as opposed to the people in this company. Have, have assistance. She can direct that.

Right.

She can instruct on what the meeting notes should look like, where are action items noted, and then she can take her hands out of it.

Yeah.

And there's so much freedom in that that you get to stand for yourself and you get to assume you're not responsible for everything. And that's, that's what I see is, you know, in our. The topic for this live is change your life. To change your life, like, you have to decide that you're ready to do it and that you don't have to do it by yourself.

Right.

That's the key part.

Yeah. I mean, it's so funny. I mean, how you're describing that is like every single conversation I have with my clients. Because I think, you know that saying, like, people are more afraid of, like, their success than they are of their failure. Well, people hear that and they're like, no, that's crazy. Like, I'd be. I'm not afraid of having money. I'm not afraid of this. I'm not afraid of that. And it's like people are afraid of the things that they think goes along with that. So, like, oftentimes when you think of, like, having a lot more money, the first thing that comes up is, oh, God, like, my family's probably going to ask for a ton of. Or like, how am I going to invest it? Like, what am I supposed to do with it? Like, I've never had a lot of money, so how am I supposed to manage it? You know, like, that's a lot of responsibility. Or the one that I hear all the time is I'm terrified of how much, how much tax. I'm Going to have to pay. Right. Forgetting that by the time, like you have to pay a shit ton in taxes, like, you're also going to be making a shit ton. It'll be an honor to spend that much money in taxes. Right, Right. It'll be like such a proud moment for you to write like a $100,000 tax bill for the amount of money your, your business brought in last year. Like.

Yeah.

Amazing. And it's, it's, it's one of those things that like, it's. Our brains are very, very clever to keep us in our comfort zone. You know, they, our brains understand like the things that freak us out and they like to pull on those things because our, our whole nervous system is designed, designed to keep us in a safe little container where nothing is out of the ordinary and we are fully confident in like, how to deal with everything. And just coming up with like all these like, little what if scenarios is enough to make like, going for the bigger thing that much scarier. We were having a conversation yesterday when after we kind of like separated. Hi, Dina. Separated from our weekend together. And I was reminded of one of my, one of my very close family friends is a recovering alcoholic. And she was talking about how for a while in AA there was this other woman in the group who decided that she wanted to get sober. But through getting sober, her husband, who was also an alcoholic, was like, this is not fun anymore. I don't like our marriage when you're, when you're sober. So she had to make a decision to either stay sober or go back to being a drinker so that she didn't, you know, break up her own marriage. And she chose the marriage.

Wow.

You know, and it's just like, and it's literally like life or death. You know, she's, she's consciously making the choice to shorten her life because she doesn't want to rock the boat in her marriage.

Yeah.

Because her husband's not comfortable being the only alcoholic in a relationship that's not confronting his own stuff.

Oh.

But you know, but like, that is a massive decision. Here's a partner that she's had for 35 years.

Right.

You know, and this is a life that she's built over 35, over longer. You know, she's, she's, you know, almost retired at this point. And like, that's the kind of choice people make every single day.

Right.

They choose the thing that will impede them living their best lives for the thing that feels like it's the most comfortable.

Well, yeah, it's the thing. It's the thing we have. Right, right, right. I, I, There's a person I've talked to a couple of times, actually, this has happened multiple times. So if, if you're watching this and you think it's you, maybe it's you, maybe it's someone else. Someone else. But there's a person I've talked to a couple of times who occasionally checks in with me to see, like, if I have new programs, if I, you know, if I'm, if I'm still taking client, like, is there still room for me if I decide I want to work with you? And on our yes, no call, which is in, in, we both do this are, you know, you don't, you don't have pressure to not get off the call with me till you say yes. When you have a strategy call with me, we set up a second call. If you haven't decided on that call, we set up a second call. That's a yes, no call. We're. You get to make the decision and come in powerfully and say, I'm doing this or I'm not doing this.

Right.

And this person came back to the yes, no call and said, I can't do it because I am afraid that if I work with you and I change my job, I'm also going to want to leave my marriage.

Yeah.

And I'm not ready to blow up my life in that way.

Yeah.

And I said, that's like a very valid reason to not do this. And also, you're making a decision to keep your life in a way that's not comfortable and happy for you.

Yeah.

And that's okay. Like, you have to be ready for it. I never want someone to come and work with me and be sorry that their credit card gets charged every month because they're not doing the work or they're not ready to do the work. I don't want that. I don't want, like, a resentful. Like, I feel like I got pressured into doing this and I'm not ready. What I want is for that person to be ready. Right. I want that person to. And, and this, the sort of second step of that is like, the getting ready to get ready, which we talk about all the time. Like, oh, let me get in shape so I can start going to the gym. Right. Let me learn to cook so I can take cooking classes. But you do have to be ready to, in some respects, blow up your life a little bit.

Right.

Because there will be people around you who are saying, finally, you are setting boundaries. Finally, you're taking care of yourself. Finally, you're realizing that you should be applying to jobs, asking for twice the amount of money that you're. That you're making right now. Finally you said no to your boss and you didn't get fired for it. Finally you came out to happy hour with us after all of this time of saying you couldn't or being at happy hour and sitting on the side and being on your phone because you had to. Like, there's going to be that faction of people who are so excited that the real you gets to come alive.

Yeah.

But the people you're afraid of are the people. The alcoholic spouse who wants you to stay in drinking mode. The spouse or partner or parent who thinks if you're making more money, you should be giving more money to them. The person who thinks you're all high and mighty now because you've got some confidence in yourself. Those are also people that eventually my clients are willing to let go of in a lot of cases. But there's fear in the disapproval of people who aren't where you're going.

Yeah.

Not following you there and not approving of you bettering yourself and choosing your life instead of just reacting to what happens to you.

Yeah, I. I love this. So this conversation so much, partially because it allows me to. For me to bring up my favorite movie or one of them crazy rich Asians. Have you seen it?

Yeah.

Okay, so that scene. That scene where, like, you know, she's teaching her her lecture and she's doing the poker example and she kind of, like, kicks this guy's ass. Her. Her PA or her ta's ass?

Yeah.

And she explains to the class, like, the reason I won is because he wasn't playing to win. He was playing to not. And, like, that question, like, that whole premise, like, as soon as I heard it, it just completely changed how I approach things in my life. You know, am I in this moment playing to win or am I playing to not lose? You know, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a competitive thing. It's just like, what is it that I'm in this for? Am I in this for just surviving? Like, just getting through, just, like, not rocking the boat? That's playing to not lose? Or am I in this to, like, really go after my greater dream? You know? And, like, of course there are exceptions, but ideally, I want every moment of my life to be. To play to win, you know? Yeah.

And I think we're taught to play to not lose, like, to. To not get in trouble. Right, Right. Like, I spent so much of my career working extra hard so I wouldn't get in trouble, so I wouldn't let anybody down, so I wouldn't be disappointing, so I wouldn't lose my job. So if there were layoffs or job eliminations, like, I was in the know I knew how to handle those, so I couldn't be in the group of people getting let go. And. And also always feeling like I was in trouble.

Right.

Right. Like, we were. We were doing a remodel of a new office space, and I had a nightmare that I still remember so distinctly. And nightmares are so, like, outrageously emotional that something simple becomes, like, such a big thing. And in my. In my nightmare, I dream that I ordered the wrong fabric for the desk chairs. The repercussions in my dream for ordering the wrong fabric for the desk chairs were so great. Like, I was fired. My boss was preemptively calling places to tell them they shouldn't hire me because I was a bad chair. Chair orderer, which is, like, so silly in a wake life.

Right, Right, right.

But in. In my nightmare, there was. There were always. There was always this theme of dreams of letting people down, about work things.

Right.

And I don't. I didn't want to live that way. Like, Right. You know, one of the decision points for me was like, I want to. I want to dream bigger. Like, I don't want to be having nightmares about chairs.

Yeah.

I want to be having nightmares about getting up on a stage without pants on. Like, let's have me in front of 50,000 people with no pants on. I'd rather that nightmare.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No. 100%. Whenever I think about, like, that kind of model, like, who did it serve for you to always have it hang over your head that if you were naughty, you'd get suspended from school?

It served two things. It served me in knowing I was needed.

Right.

And not having the confidence to know I was needed in other ways and in other areas. And it served everybody else who never had to worry about anything, any ball being dropped.

I actually want to back it up to, like, where, like, we learned this.

Yeah.

Right. So, like, ever, like, every single thing, like, when we grow up, like, our k. Our parents or caretakers are usually like, okay, well, you have to be good or I'm gonna take your toys away. You have to do this, or we're gonna take away your. Your ability to socialize. You're gonna be grounded. You have to do this. You're going to be suspended from School, you have to do this or you're not going to have recess. Like, things, like the things that should. We should naturally have, like the. Our natural ability to connect with other humans, our natural ability to play and be creative and. And enjoy life, especially as a small child. Our ability to show up at school and get our education. Like, there's like, what, who and what benefits from us kind of falling in line that way, right? The school system, like this, this bureaucracy, like this, this model where it makes other people's lives easier for us to not be autonomous, for us not to go for what we want, for us not to be creative and resourceful and whole, but to just step in line. Right? And I think that's especially for women, especially if you tend towards people pleasing, if you tend towards being at all codependent, we take that on to the next degree. You know, we're like, oh, cool. So like, I just have to, like, be as small as possible and I have to be able to, like, do all the things to your point. I have to like, go above and beyond. No fun, no freedom. And I have to be willing to sacrifice everything so I don't lose the things that, like, I should just take for granted that they're mine, like, off. You can't take this from me. Yeah, but imagine, imagine like, how different life would be and how different like our school system would be if children were actually in, like, encouraged to go and experiment on stuff and encouraged to like, go and like, paint the wall and see what happens. Right.

And question how things are.

Right?

That's. I feel like we get to this point, right? We're in our 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. We get to this point and we're so afraid to question why we do things the way we do them, where our rules came from, and whether or not we want to break those rules. Right. That we've created for ourselves.

Right?

And. And so we self limit and we say, like, this is the career I chose. This is the life I chose. I don't deserve to start my own business or I don't deserve to be a vice president. I got to this level. This is where. This is where I am. And someday I'll retire.

Yeah.

I mean, I had a lot of conversations with myself about someday I'll retire. And I am just getting to the point now where not only am I saying someday, someday, someday, but I'm also saying, like, well, why can't I change that now?

Right?

Which I've never been able to do before.

Right?

And to be able to say like, what's stopping me from doing that now? Like, what responsibility do I have to, like, this place, this space, this. This rule that I've made for myself that can't be broken and isn't gonna, like, hurt other people. Right. Like, I'm not out to destroy, but, like, I can build whatever I want. I can live wherever I want. I can do whatever I want. I can try a program and fail at it and hate it and let go of it. I can. You know, I can hire somebody to work with and decide that they're not the person for me or that our time has run its course or whatever it is, change my mind. And there. There's so much freedom in that. But letting go of that tether also feels like I'm flying out into space and I'm, like, hurtling around in circles and, like, you know, so. So having a coach, having a therapist, having friends who are in similar spaces to me and being able to talk that stuff through is so powerful.

Right.

And being able to rely on someone. I was with a. A client this morning who said some really scary things out loud.

Yeah.

And then thanked me for being a place where, like, I didn't, like, bug my eyes out and say, like, are you insane? How could you, you know. Like. Right. Of her for saying the scary things out loud and being able to sit with them and not, like, change the subject or use humor to get out of it or, you know, say, like, oh, I'm not gonna come today because I have to say scary things, and I don't want to say scary things.

Right.

So having a coach to bounce those things off of, and, like, I have you for that when I talk to you, and I'm like, I can't have this. And you say, why? I don't know. I don't have a reason why. Just because I made the assumption.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's. So I'm. I'm staying at a friend's place. They have this nice little guest apartment. And it's funny. I brought everything to make coffee. And last night, you know, I realized they don't have a kettle in this apartment. Like, they don't have any apparatus to boil water. No, like, because I like my pour over coffee. And we stayed at that bed and breakfast, which was lovely, but they also didn't have an electric kettle in the bedroom. And I was like, okay, I'm not gonna go another morning without my coffee. Right. And so I ordered a kettle. But, like. Like, imagine you're living your life, and you just Assume that, like there's just not hot water anywhere. Are you gonna set yourself up to make coffee in the morning?

No.

Like you're not. You're just going to assume that the rule is you have to leave the home to go and get coffee. You know, like, if you don't believe that you can run a marathon, are you gonna pick up running? Are you gonna start training for a marathon if you don't believe you can actually do it? Of course not. Right. Like the first key to, to anything is believing it's possible. Right. Because then you'll start acting as if it can happen. Like, if I, if I assumed that there was no way for me to make coffee in any of the places that I was staying at in this trip, I wouldn't have brought coffee and filters in my little pour over thing. No, but like knowing, knowing that it's possible, and this is such a small example, but it's true across everything that we do. Like knowing that it's just at least possible. That's when you start like keying yourself up to make it more possible.

Yeah. Yeah. So if you're watching this and you're like, I, I love, I love a noticing exercise. So I, I love just having like a plain piece of paper next to me with a topic on it. And so if you're watching this and you're like, oh, I tell myself all the time there are things that I can't have. Just make a list of things you can't have.

Yeah.

And then like, look, don't judge it, don't evaluate it. Just like, oh, I can't have coffee. There's no kettle. I can't have a new job. There's. There are no jobs out there. Right. So it can be big things and small things. Not that coffee is a small thing. I totally get that. Yeah, I know. Let's take a pause for coffee.

It's cold, but I will still drink it. Hi.

Yeah, but you know, there, there are things I say all day. Hey, Lee. There are things all day that I tell myself I can't have.

He knows how important coffee is, right?

Big fan of Lee. I was just enjoying listening. But the coffee thing. I carry a travel water heater and coffee press. Just say no to not having. Coff. Seriously, this bed and breakfast we stayed at when we went away together this weekend was like so, so much fun. So kitschy. The guys who own it were so nice. And the coffee was bad. It was bad coffee.

So bad. It was so disappointing. But you also didn't want to Offend them by like not drinking it because.

They were so nice.

Yeah, yeah.

But anyway. Yeah. So make a list of the things you, you tell yourself you can't have and then walk away from the list and in a couple of days come back to it and look and just like, just ask yourself the question. Really?

Yeah. Really? Yeah. And what I love about this exercise is that you can come up with incredibly out there things and like, you know, I can't make $5 million a year. Right. But the more time you spend with it, the more time you like, you know, look at it and start really examining like, okay, well, what makes this true and what makes this not true? The more you'll actually notice opportunities for you to make like an extra $50,000 here and an extra this and an extra that, and it just starts training your brain to start identifying opportunities for that to become true. Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah. I, I keep telling myself that I. Oh, well, now I'm stopped by this because. Complimented. Thank you, Lee. You're one of my favorites too. This is the joy of LinkedIn. Lee and I just like came across each other on LinkedIn and he reached out and we became friends in the dms and here we are a couple of years later. But yeah, the things that I tell myself I can't have, I can't have because I tell myself I can't have them.

Right, right.

Like we said, you talked earlier about raising rates. When we started working together, my rates were fairly low. They weren't low, low. They weren't like, embarrassingly, how do you even charge money if you're gonna not, not charge really anything kind of low, but they were, they were low. And I have progressively raised my rates and I took a fractional HR job last year and I remember thinking about what my rates should be based on like my corporate salary, plus a little because I was paying my own taxes. And you urged me to charge like consulting fees, like consulting firm fees.

Right.

And I did. And that's what they paid me.

Yeah.

And now I feel like I'm not going to go back to hourly rates and, and that sort of things. Like I am a strategic advisor on the HR side if I'm doing that work.

Right.

And I, I had done an assignment before that for a company that was paying me too much for what they were utilizing me for and utilizing me way, way too little for what I was capable of. And it was so, like, incongruous and so me charging what I should be charging and having the confidence to do that and understanding that that's like a pretty typical rate out there in the McKinsey, Bain, Deloitte realm of things makes it so that they weren't asking me to do the low level work. Right. It's not what they were paying me for.

Right.

The pleaser in me still had to make a mental list of things I can't have or things I can't say no to or things. Right. That, like, there was a point where somebody was doing a spreadsheet and they were doing it wrong. And my brain was like, tell them to send you the spreadsheet, then you can fix it for them. And then they can just fill in the blanks. And then I thought, they're not paying me for a finance spreadsheet now. They're paying me to do strategic HR work.

Right.

And so really evaluating, like what I'm allowed to have, what I'm allowed to create for myself, what I'm allowed to offer to clients helps my clients see, like what they're allowed to stand for as well.

Right. Yeah. No has ripple effects. It really does. You know, and like, especially that fear when you make more money and you're afraid people are going to ask you for more money.

Right.

There's this thing that can either happen, you can either, like, yes, like, give your money away and feel really resentful that you made more and now you don't have any more because you gave it all away because you felt like he was owed to the people who, you know, have been your friends and your loved ones for X, Y and Z years. Or you can be impeccable with your relationship with money and you can be so proud about you earning this amount of money and saying, no, I earned this. I worked so hard for it and I was brave for it and all stuff. And it actually is this inspiration to everyone in your world if they're paying attention, if they're open to this. Say, you know what? If you're going to be brave and you're going to go and do that, like, I can do that too, you know, and it's incredible. Like the, the ripple effects. You just like daring to believe that you deserve to have what you want.

Yeah.

It's just, it's incredible what that does to the rest of your world. Yeah.

Yeah. I have a friend who is one of those friends who's very much like me, you know, in a way that we've always complimented each other and stood for each other and all of that, but neither of us really knew what to do.

Right. Right.

Because we were so we were so much the same. And she's been following me along as I've done all of this work for myself on boundary setting, on managing burnout, on standing for myself, on speaking up for what I believe in, on being my authentic self. And she got a new job. She asked for more money. She got promoted. She's better at setting boundaries where she is and doing the things that belong to her job and not that belong to other people, people's jobs. And she will call me and say, like, guess what I said today? And I'm like, so proud of her for being willing to do that. And she always says, like, because I saw you set this kind of boundary, I am able to set this kind of boundary. And it's. It is amazing the ripple effect you can have on people who see themselves in you and see what you are capable of and what you're proving to the world and to yourself you're allowed to do. And then they. They start doing it for themselves.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's to kind of veer off topic. You know, they. I went to this really incredible talk with God, what's her name? Major feminist, wrote for Ms. Magazine. What's. Yep, you know who I'm talking about. Why can't I. Huh? Something with a G. Yeah, I'm gonna remember her name. But he was talking about how, how like, society follows art, you know, and it's usually like exactly 10 years from when Gloria Steinem. Gloria Steinem, thank you. Yes. So I was. Yeah, it was at the Castro Theater in San Francisco and she was doing this talk with someone else whose name I also don't remember. Like, there's no chance I'm gonna remember it because I can't even remember Gloria Steinem's name. So.

Excuse me.

But anyway, they were talking about how like, culture and society follows art. And pretty much like the two in. In many, many different scenarios, like there was like a piece of art that depicted a mixed race couple. And then 10 years later, laws changed and that became legal Will. Then the example they were talking about was Will and Grace. Like, Will and Grace came on the air. It depicted, you know, gay people just out there living their lives, having relationships, being themselves. Ten years later, gay marriage is legalized. Right. There's this thing like, as humans, we can't do something unless we see it being done.

Yeah.

You know, and we can't do something unless we see being done by people that we recognize with, that we feel some kinship with. Right, right. So, like, whatever it is, like you may Think it's such a small thing that you're so insignificant. Like the thing that you want is out of your reach and like it will always be out of your reach. But like, imagine that there are 15 people who are watching you and when you have the ovaries to go out and just dare to believe that you can do it and become that example, become that piece of art that showcases this can be done. Like, imagine the impact it's going to have on the people in your life. And like 10 years down the road, right? Because for you, there's 15 people watching you. For those 15 people watching you, there's 15 people watching them. And so on, so on, so on and so on. Yeah, it's going to have this incredible ripple effect. So like it's hard to be brave just for the sake of getting what you want. But imagine you being brave and doing the thing that you want is actually going to change thousands of lives. And it can be something so small. It can be like making earrings and selling them at a craft show. You know, it could be ending a relationship. It could be asking for a twenty thousand dollar raise and getting could be starting a business. It could be, it could be any number of things.

And it's also, it's, it's in who you decide to become and it's also in who you surround yourself with. There's this phenomenon that like we see what we're thinking about. So when I was a workaholic, I saw around me workaholics, right? When I stepped back to look around just my own company, just the company I was already working in, I all of a sudden saw that not everyone in the leadership team was a workaholic. There were people who were leaving at five or six o' clock and they were done for the day. There were people who didn't work on the weekends.

Yeah.

There were people who didn't respond to my emails at 10 o' clock@ night. I only saw the ones who did. I didn't. I know different time when I started looking around. And I do this with my clients too. And one of the assignments that I give is like, go look around your company and find somebody who doesn't work really hard and still is respected. Yeah, because you are. You always know the lazy dude, right? You always know the dude who like everybody hates and somehow he still gets promoted all the time. He's somebody's nephew or he's somebody's favorite for no good reason. But we don't notice the people who like, it's kind of easy for. They go to work, they do their work, they act strategic, and then they leave for the day.

Yep.

And when you start noticing those, you actually start noticing. Like, you could be like that.

Yeah.

But you. We look for familiarity, so we look for the people who are the most like us. And the more we look for what we actually want, the more opportunity we have to surround ourselves with people who are also going after what they want.

Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. So I think our call to action with this is A, identify the thing that you've told yourself you can't have and start really questioning that. And then B, start looking for the people who already have it.

Yeah.

Because the more you see them, the more you'll see it's possible for you. Yeah, yeah.

And then when you're ready.

Yeah.

Like, do that. Do those noticing exercises first. Because if we go to notice and fix at the same time, we're going to destroy ourselves. Now, once you've done some of that noticing, then you have to decide what's stopping you.

Right.

Very often what's stopping you is that you think you have to do it by yourself.

Yeah. Which you don't. That's why we exist.

That's why we exist.

Yeah, exactly.

Yes, We. You know, coaching is the call to accountability. It's not the only way to do it. It's a super effective way to do it.

Right.

But it's the call to accountability. It's the call to figuring out what's stopping you. We cannot be objective about ourselves.

Yeah.

And as a high. Both of us are high achievers. Like, we've both learned that we can't call ourselves out for stuff.

No.

We need somebody else to say, hey, I've. I've seen this. We think about that.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, on that note, I've had a half gallon of water, a thing of seltzer and coffee. Imagine. I need to pee.

Self care is part of growth.

Lauren, this has been lovely, amazing. So nice to meet you. And Dina, so great to have you.

Yes, yes. Thank you all for being here. And we'll see you on the next one.

Okay.

All right, take care. Bye.