Creating your own accountability

Words I can taste yo, yo, yo, I can taste yo, yo, yo Words I can taste yo, yo, yo, I can taste yo, yo, yo, yo I can taste.

Hello and good evening, everyone. I'm Katie McManus, business strategist, Money, mindset, coach. And I'm joined this evening with Michelle Hugo.

Hi, I'm Michelle McCarthy, branding specialist. I wasn't sure where I was positioned on the screen.

This is like the Brady Bunch.

Yeah, I know. We, we did a few more. There's a few more that we need, but we're very close.

Yeah.

Michelle, you're like. Are you, are you back? You're like in and out.

Oh, am I?

No, you're good, you're good, you're good. Now you're in.

You're in here. You have to introduce yourself.

Yes. Sorry, I got distracted. Squirrel brain. I'm Carrie Barrett. I am a publicity coach and an on camera coach with these two lovely young ladies.

Yes, yes. And tonight we're talking about accountability and how to create your own accountability and stay accountable and all things. But very importantly, before we entered this, this conversation, we were talking about wildlife in Australia.

Since.

Michelle, I think, as you're arriving. Hello. We're just gonna have a little moment where we're talking about wildlife in Australia. If you have any questions, we have our Australian wildlife expert, Michelle here, who is telling us how awful koalas are.

Yeah, I mean, I. I mean, I am a naturalized citizen, so therefore that automatically makes me an expert. But also, I'm afraid that, that if I say the wrong thing, they're going to take my passport off me. We were talking about how common koalas. No, sorry. How common kangaroos are outside in the countryside, not in the city, obviously. And then we were talking about koalas and how koalas are not as great as we think they are. That one. They're not cuddly, they're not fluffy, they're very, very scratchy. They're very, very lazy. And then also they're as. As Australians would say. They're. They're a. Yeah, yeah.

They sound like.

I don't drop the C word. We'd actually call someone a C word. But I was like, I don't know. Everybody's audience. Maybe I shouldn't. The real Australian thing to be say would be like, yeah, they're, they're. They're.

My audience would be cool with it. I'm pretty sure Katie's would be too.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

Okay. La qualis are a bit of a so Australian thing. I've said. In a very long time.

I love that expression. And that is going to be like part of my daily parl now. Thank you for that. That was worth the price of admission.

Yeah. That's our, that's our tidbit for the day.

Chris. Vogue says, how dare you say that about koalas.

They're kind of. Then, yes, a little bit.

They're. They're a lot. And this isn't me. I am, I am quoting crocodile. I think it's turn ball. Turn ball. He. He's an Aussie. A proper Aussie.

He's on Tick Tock.

He's absolutely amazing. Very, very funny. But he answers questions about Australian wildlife. But sometimes he takes the piss because somebody asked him one day about moth diving and he answered it as if it was a sport. I suppose it is to some. But like, he's very. But like, he never breaks character. It's so, so good. He, he'd be like a more unhinged version of Steve Irwin. Steve. Okay.

By the way, I like, everybody I have ever known has always said that, you know, several years back I was always going to leave my husband and run away with Steve Irwin and marry like the, the Crocodile Hunter. But hold on, I have a question. I jumped forward. Takes the piss. What does that mean?

Oh, that's. Oh my God. How do I explain that it takes the piss.

It's kind of like making fun of, like, to.

Thank you.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh my God.

That's like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take the piss.

Yeah, I'm just taking the piss. It means I'm just teasing. I'm just making fun. Yeah, okay. Not serious.

Yeah, I'm not teasing. Is what, Is what people do in elementary school, like taking the piss is what like adults do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So mature.

Yeah, there's a lot of like. Oh my God. We could do a whole segment on like Aussie slang and I could get you to like, guess what it is because it is its own language. It is absolutely insane. But it's really funny because then when I go home to Ireland, I. It's like I'm trying to like, not come across as like super Australian. Like they say servo, which is the gas station. So it's short for service station. So that's very common. Macca's, the boto or the bottle shop is the off license. Arvo. Avo. Like there's so. And then there's a whole, a lot of other words. They're just shortened words. There's a whole lot of other language.

Wait, servo. Is a gas station. And what was the other one you said?

The butler.

Which is a, Like a liquor store.

Liquor store, yes.

You guys know what a Paki is?

Is that a package store? Yeah, yeah, it's what, A package store.

Package store. But do you know what that is?

A package. Is that not like a ups.

No, it's a liquor store. It's New England. Yeah. Like, okay, go to the Paki, gotta go to the Paki for some beer.

And I only know that because my husband's from Vermont.

I guess in Michigan, they call it a party store.

Oh, that makes sense.

Yeah, makes a lot.

We called it the abc, the Alcoholic Beverage Control.

Right. ABC store. Not Korea.

I like that.

Not an educational store in any way. I think we lost Michelle.

Oh, no. You know what it is? I switched tabs. I need to, I need. Okay. I switched tabs to look up Australian slang, and that's why I was still here. But, yeah, it's, it's its own language. And, yeah, sometimes I still get caught off guard. It's very, it's very, very funny. I like, I enjoy it, I enjoy it. It's a bit fun. But then also, because I used to live in the US as well, sometimes, like, normal words like, like, we'll just say, like, sidewalk is what you guys would call it. And then we call it the path in Ireland. And then when I'm here, I'm like, the path, the footpath, the sidewalk, the. I get so confused. I, I, I can't, I'm, I'm blanking.

Any Aussies, you don't know what they call it in Australia?

I, I don't know, because I have, like, four different words that I've picked up from just never settling in one. So I'm like, I mean, for the most part, everybody will know what I mean.

Yeah.

You know, I've never really had a.

An instance talking about a sidewalk and someone hasn't been able to contextually understand. Exactly.

That doesn't really happen in this country. Other countries, maybe we're not so much. This country, they kind of, they, they get it. But, yeah, I'm trying to. I think it's just footpath, at least. Yeah.

Yeah.

But anyway, there's a lot of things like that that I, I get really mixed up in between what's American, what's Irish, and what's Aussie.

Right.

I think Americans get mixed up by what's American.

I know. I. Driving across the country when I was, like, 22, we drove through the South. I remember going to a Starbucks in Mississippi. And the guy, like, at the register was just kept saying something. I'm like, huh? Yeah. What?

And he said.

He finally articulated it in an accent that I could understand. It was, how is your life? And at that point, it was like an existential question.

I'm like, my life.

My life is okay. You know, he's like, this is too much. It's like, how you doing, lady? Like, calm down.

You Yankees.

I know when you guys walk into a store and someone goes, good morning.

How was your day?

Like, do you respond?

I say, good.

Okay.

Do you not respond, how are you?

You know, Do I respond in Australia? Yes. Do I respond in America?

No.

No. Sometimes it depends. Sometimes it's just really aggressive. It's like, all up in your face. And it's just. It's not culturally.

Yeah.

Accepted in Ireland or Australia to be like, that forward. Yeah. It's a bit, like, it's a bit jarring. And then I suppose then I get used to it. Depending on how long I'm there, I. Yeah, I. I acclimate again.

Yeah. I think, I mean, my, My. My whole stance on it is that, like, if someone's being that, like, how are you? Like, they obviously want to sell me something. I tend to be, like, equally pleasantly aggressive back. Like, I'm. Well, how are you?

Cool.

I'm just browsing.

Yeah.

Yeah, great.

See you later.

Bye.

You know? Yeah, yeah.

It's quite interesting because, like, when that happens, you're a little bit of me wants to, like, pull them aside and give them a little bit of coaching. Right. This is how you can, like, sell like a human. But it's quite interesting because I can also see the same things happening on social media where, you know, everything is an ad. Like, they are doing that version of, oh, hi. Hi. You like to make a post. Hi, do you want to buy my stuff? Hello. Hello. Like, and it's like, yeah, you know.

Yeah, we're a little aggressive.

Yeah.

I. I think I internalized something I learned when I lived in France, is that, like, when you walk into a store, you have to say hi or else it's incredibly rude. And so anytime I walk into a store now and they don't say hi to me, I, like, I just leave. Yeah.

Really?

Yeah. I don't.

I don't like it.

It's just like, okay, if you can't acknowledge the fact that I walked into your store.

Yeah.

You know, then, like. And at least even for me, it feels like a line of communication. Like, you know, if you need anything, I'm Here, or if you have any questions, I'm here. I don't need someone to, like, cater to me, but, you know, it's just, it just seems polite.

Does this apply, does this apply at like a convenience store environment and also when you're clothes shopping? Because I have two entirely different reactions depending on where I am.

You know, it depends on the setup of the convenience store because there are some convenience stores where, like, the doors go past the cash register, and then there are some convenience stores where the cash register is like in the center towards the back, which is a weird place to have.

Yeah.

But like, you're not automatically going past there. Yeah. So it, like, it doesn't make sense to be like, hi, how are you? From across the way. But yeah, like, you know, in a clothing store, if you're, if you're walking to like a department store and there's someone there, I'll generally say hello to them as I enter, you know, as if they're the representative for the whole store. And they translate like, all right, Katie McManus has entered the building and she said hello to me. So consider yourself greeted by her like.

Your shoes, get ready. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Anyway. Yeah, well. And customer service is such a funny thing because it's like, it, it's something that, it's also personal. And I think kind of very loosely relates to what we're talking about today about accountability. Right. Because accountability, much like how you walk into a store and prefer to be greeted or not greeted or whatever, how we manage our own accountability is different across the board.

Yeah.

So, like, I'm curious, I know how we hold each other accountable for our project, our super secret project that we're not really announcing yet, but we're kind of talking about. But I'm curious, how do you guys hold yourselves accountable for stuff in your, in your workday, in your life and things like that when you don't have this kind of support.

I'm pretty bad at it, honestly. I mean, the truth is, I, I, I, I do write myself series of to dos and tasks, but I find that it's really easy without having somebody next to me to guide me along. It's very easy to get derailed. It's very easy to go down a path where I feel like I'm doing something or I'm moving toward my goals, and I'm actually just creating sort of busy work for myself, for lack of a better word, and then requires me to be very intentional about stopping and, and thinking about whether I'm doing something. Like when I think about accountability. I think about people who are helping me do things or helping guide me or keeping me on track to doing things that actually move the needle rather than getting stuck with like, again, the busyness. And so I have to be very intentional if I'm doing it on my own about calling myself out and stopping and saying, am I doing something that's actually making me, like, move toward this goal or am I occupying myself with crap that doesn't amount to much?

Right.

A lot of the times it's the latter.

Yeah.

Don't know.

It's way more. The stuff that's going to move the needle is boring.

Yeah.

Nobody wants to do that. It's the fun, creative stuff that you get sucked into and then you're like, oh, my God, it's been five hours.

Yeah.

Like, that's, that's because it's fun. Which is. I think I. I think because sometimes in those moments I have created some really cool things I get into, like, hyper focus, but trying to be realistic with myself that every side quest is going to amount to this cool thing that I create. Or not not necessarily cool, but relevant.

Right.

I think is something that I'm still learning with. Learning with. Also can't speak English. Put that on my to do list. I was trying to say learning and grappling with is what I was trying to say. And I think it was the biggest. And I'm just, like I said, I'm.

Still figuring it out.

When I started my own business, when I went from being employed to self employed, I felt like a toddler who like found the, the Christmas press, as we would call it, like just the stash, and was like allowed, let loose. And you're like, what am I? I don't know what to do. I can do anything. You mean I can do anything with my time.

Yeah.

And creating those structures and routines for myself are. I'm. Yeah, I'm still, I'm still figuring it out. If I'm being honest. The thing that works for me most is, is homework. I need accountability. I need homework. And if that is, like with you guys saying, okay, by next week, I'm going to do this or, Katie, I'm.

Going to see you on Friday.

I'm going to have this right done. This is my homework. That's essentially what. And most of the time it still gets done like the night before, like it did all through school.

Yeah, 100%. So I just had my first session with a new client today and he said to listen, I understand your skills. We're working on, on camera communication, but said at the end of the day, what I really need is somebody that will hold me accountable because I want to do this thing. And I have been trying to do this thing for six months now. And every time I try and do it, I find that I do it once or twice and then I drop off because it's like not pleasant or it's especially challenging or I have certain fears around it and I'm not really competent in it yet. So it becomes very easy to drop off. I need somebody who's going to, who's going to teach me these things. Give me the homework to use your word, Michelle, and then hold me accountable for doing it until we meet again. And that's my main goal with working with you because I know what I need to do, but I can't seem to. I can't seem to get there. Right.

It's key. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before I answer my own question, I just have to share what jat and I hope I'm pronouncing your name correctly. In the US Civil War, a deadline was a piece of wood. This boundary served a lethal purpose. Any prisoner who crossed the line even slightly would be shot without warning by guards positioned along the wall. I'm really glad that's not deadlines anymore.

I mean, sometimes I need that level of a deadline because sometimes I have homework and I still don't do it sometimes. Yeah, I'll think of that one. That's good. I like that.

Well, it's funny because, like, you know how I used to do work when I worked for companies was always like out of fear of being punished, you know, like the fear of not, you know, meeting the expectation or not being good enough or whatever. So I'd always over exceed, I'd exceed expectations until I burned myself out.

Yeah.

And it was just like this punishing cycle. It didn't feel good. And I think the first several years of my business I treated myself that way and it was just like I have to punish myself into doing the thing so that I exceed expectations. But there was no one giving me like the pat on the back at the end of the day.

Yeah.

You know, it was just like it's just me in a room by myself, like having a little existential confidence crisis of like, am I good enough? I don't know. And in the last few years, I've really been reckoning with how I do work and realizing that, like, there's a gazillion ways to grow a business. And because there are gazillion ways. Like, there's no one right way. So I really prioritize doing the things that I enjoy doing because I'm far more likely to be accountable and, like, stick to it. Right. Like, like writing on. On LinkedIn or creating stupid TikToks or whatever. I really enjoy that stuff. But it's like, I get to be. I get to be my best version of myself or my favorite version of myself and do it.

Yeah.

And I'm learning to trust myself a lot more to actually, like, go forward and do the thing. And I think also getting really clear on here are the tasks I need to do to reach that goal and not getting distracted by, like, all the side quests that I could convince myself would help me do it, you know, and what that takes is having other brains kind of looking at my business with me and be like, no, no, no, no. Like, Michelle did this with me several weeks ago.

She.

This is not serving the greater purpose.

Yeah.

You know, and I was like, cool, it's done.

He took action. Like, it was. It was. She's like, okay, cool, we're not doing that anymore. And I'm like, yeah, okay, I like it. But I think also it's. This is where all coaching helps. I mean, we all know if we wanted to lose weight, it's calories in versus calories out, but we're still going to hire a personal trainer for that. Accountability. You know, it's the same with business coaching, any kind of coaching, it's someone who can be objective and, yeah. Strategy and all that comes into it. Absolutely. But for the most part, it's accountability and someone being objective, being able to take the emotion out of it and be like, this is. Like that. This is. This is not serving you right. I don't think you should do that anymore. And then. Yeah, well.

And Katie, it's interesting you mentioned expectations. Like, you had always. Your plan was always to exceed the expectations. One of the things I found challenging and. And I had a certain level of expectation that was put upon me when I used to work in the news industry, and I would always try and exceed it. Now I'm the one who's setting the expectations. You are the one that's setting the expectations, Michelle. I mean, certainly our clients are to some degree as well, and we want to serve them, but ultimately the expectation for ourselves is what brings us to our next step, the next thing we want to do in our business. And it has been really challenging, you know, trying to do without guidance or accountability, setting reasonable expectations as well. Like enough to push myself, but not enough that if I don't make it, I'm going to feel like an abject failure, which is very easy to do as well when you are running your own thing. And, you know, the interesting thing is too, I was reading this study the other day and I can't for the life of me remember where I was reading it. But regardless, it was saying that people who have ADHD and are in high, like, demanding professions, that those traits may actually be hidden to some degree, like the demands of the job actually are able to sort of mask some of the struggles that you face. And I, we've talked about this a million times. I don't think I ever realized that I struggle with that until I had a business. And I realized that, like, when I worked in the news industry, I had. This was what I. I did this at this time, then this happened, and then I had a deadline that was down to the second. You know, at 5, 32 and 31 seconds, I was delivering this story and I had to be on at that time. And when you don't have those guardrails, it is so much easier to fall off track and to go down those sort of like, rabbit holes. And that's been a big challenge for me. And having somebody to hold me accountable, like a group to work with, whether it's individual, etc. Has been a mass. Say, game changer. Sounds like something that AI would write, but. But it sort of has been.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. Well, it's funny because, I mean, yeah, you can set these unreasonable expectations for yourself, but I think reminding yourself that, like, an expectation and a goal sometimes confused, you know, and it's like you can set a goal for yourself and not reach it, but it doesn't mean.

You didn't make progress. Right.

You know, that's hard. That's really hard.

Yeah.

I mean, and this is like, you know, shoot for the star. I like this. I know it's the other way, like, shoot for the moon, but then you land in the stars. But that freaks me out because then you're just like, floating off in space.

By the way, the stars are farther.

Away on the moon. Like, at least you could. Like, there's a way for you to be recalled back to Earth.

Yeah.

And I'm not. So, like, if I. If I'm shooting for the moon and I'm. I went way off track.

Yeah. Yeah.

I had it all prepared for this level of success.

This is so adhd, I swear to God.

But I mean, to the point, to the point, like, the other point of the gazillion points we're making is.

No, no, no, I'm stringing all the strings that you're putting out with. Like, we're bringing them together. We're bring.

Adrenaline.

The adrenaline is actually something that people with adhd, when you don't know how to manage your own ADHD because you're not aware of it.

Yeah.

You tend to end up in roles that you're really successful in because there's adrenaline attached. And adrenaline is the thing that like, overrides your executive function when it's not working.

Right.

So like, whereas, like, you could just sit here and just like twiddle your thumbs and be like, I know I have stuff to do, I need to do it. But, like, there's no deadline. There's nothing like, coming at me that I have to do it for. It's very different than in a news situation or like when I was in sales, like the end of the month, like, closeout is coming and you have to make your sales or else you don't have a job next month.

Right.

It's huge.

Yeah.

I mean, it's. Yeah, it's. I think that's why a lot of people in 80 with ADHD are successful in those roles. But it's not necessarily good for us because that we get burned out. Because adrenaline, your system all the time is not healthy.

No.

That makes so much sense. Oh, my God. I'm like going back to all my past jobs and I'm like, huh, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I can see that.

But like the all nighters, like doing a paper the night before, that's apparently.

Yeah.

Literally you have executive dysfunction until the night before because it's due tomorrow. I. I never wrote. I think I wrote one paper in advance in my entire scholastic career.

Yeah.

I think I wrote my dissertation the night before. Like in a night. Right?

Yeah.

Did you really?

Yeah, I did my thesis. I was a little bit more regimented, but then that was also because there was certain deadlines along the way. It wasn't like, go do your thesis and then present it at the end of the year. It was like there was reviews and revisions and certain chapters had to be submitted at different points.

Right.

But the dissertation was just, this is due at this date. And I think what actually ended up happening was I procrastinated and I binged the entire Sex and the City box set and then wrote. And so I wondered, seriously, in my dissertation, it's like, it's written in Carrie's tone of voice. It's insane.

Did you write? And just like that.

Did you.

Okay. Could you imagine? Oh, God, yeah. So that's funny.

Yeah.

Well.

And we were talking about this in the very beginning, like, you know, what got us to do subjects in schools that we didn't want to do. And I know I shared that. It's like I had a crush on the teacher.

Yeah.

Or I wanted them to think I was cool. Like, I felt like we had enough in common or that, like, I don't know, I just felt like there was mutual respect. But if I didn't like them or they rubbed me the wrong way or if, like there was just something in their teaching manner that I didn't respect, there was no way I was doing.

Well in that class. Yeah. Yeah. I had the same thing. And I didn't really realize that that was how it worked for me until. Until speaking with you and putting it all together. But looking back at. And I have never. I know we're going down this ADHD track and I. I haven't been diagnosed or anything, but looking back, I realized that there were very clear signs that I was. And that I didn't have any sort of guardrails around me. In fact, it was probably back then that I could have used an accountability partner that I just didn't have. Yeah.

Yeah.

I think also, like, one of the things, to use a beaten to death metaphor would like, you're the people, the five most people. People that you spend the most time with.

Thank you.

Yeah.

You're the sum. You're the, the average or the sum of the five people you spend the most time with. Something like that. But it's so true. But it's so true.

It is. But that's also why you need to be really careful about who is in your circle or at least who are going to be those top five. Because there has been times in my life and this came from a loving place, but we'll say if there were family members or people that I was really, really close to, they don't want to see you struggle. And a lot of business is struggling at the start. Like, you know, when you're trying to do all the things and before you have enough cash flow to start outsourcing. So they want you to take the safest path and they're like, you know, they just, they just want the best for you. But what ends up. Ends up happening is you can kind of become complacent because you don't have those people that are edging you on. Like when you were saying, Perry, in this little group that we have, we're all kind of slightly pushing each other that little bit. Not so much that we're going to get overwhelmed, but we're also not going to like, oh, no, it's fine. Just.

You're good.

Yeah, yeah. There's that accountability and the roles that we're also pushing each other to be just a little bit better and a little bit better. And it's kind of compounding over time rather than just being super complacent and letting it become like a venting session and we. We don't actually take any action.

No. I mean, sometimes this eventing session, it's necessary.

It's necessary.

It's necessary. But you're. You're absolutely right. I mean, there is that for a long time. And I've been in this now for about. I guess I'm going on about four and a half years. And you're right. In the beginning, you don't have the people that are pushing you. You know, you have your family around you and, like, people that are very close in your circle, but they're not necessarily the ones who are able to hold you accountable in the way that you need to be held accountable because they don't understand what you're doing. They haven't been there before. They're, you know, they want you to. They want you to play it safe. I mean, we hear this all the time. You know, people go to lose weight, and suddenly the people that. Around them that are supposed to be their accountability partners and in their corner are the ones who are sort of stopping them at every point. You know, don't change. Don't do this differently. They want them to stay safe. People don't, like when we change our routines. We're not. We don't follow the pattern that we have established already. So it's. To echo your point, Michelle, in a very long, rambling way, it is incredibly important. The people that we bring around us that are our accountability partners or our mentors or our, you know, our guides or our coaches to some degree.

Yeah. And the really sad part is that it happens at every level, which I didn't realize I was prepared for the family, the people who've never run their own business. I prefer. I was prepared for the friends and the friends that were kind of on the outskirts, I knew they would fall away. Yeah. I was not prepared that when I found the business friends that I. That I. That I wanted so, so much, but then was ready to go to the next level that they were at their ceiling and they weren't coming with me, which is so hard because you finally find this group and it's just like it, it's just repeating itself. And unfortunately, if you're lucky enough to find people that are going to come with you. That's amazing.

But it's.

It's kind of like this shedding process at each new level. New devil kind of thing.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's. It's kind of like a. Like a redo of like crabs in a bucket every single time.

What's crabs in a bucket?

Oh, I thought it was just me. I thought it was a cool thing.

I've never heard of.

You guys don't know what crabs in the. Okay, so if you put it like 100 crabs in a bucket, like, they'll try to climb out, but all the crabs will keep pulling them back in.

Get out.

Like, you can have an open bucket full of crabs that are alive and like, you know, their, Their, their claws aren't, you know, banded or anything, and they won't escape. So they're trying to pull them back.

Climb up on the other, but then the other is trying to grab and pulls them down.

Yeah, that explains why crab pots have like this huge hole. I always wondered.

You guys haven't heard that?

No, no, I wouldn't mind. My, My family come from, like, fishermen, but anyway. That's weird.

Well, there you go. There's a new metaphor for you to play with. But, you know, it's.

It.

But it's like, it can be. It can be small. It could be about something that you're going after in your business. It could be weight loss. On a much more serious note, like, I have a dear family friend who's an aa and they shared with me that another person in their AA group gave up drinking. Their husband didn't like that they weren't drinking with him and threatened to divorce them. And even though it's costing them their health and their life, they've decided to go and continue drinking just because they don't want their marriage to fall apart.

Yeah.

You know, but it's like it, like accountability is one of those things that's like. It's such like a feel good conversation. We can talk about being productive, but like, it. It really does touch upon every single part of our life. You know, how do we want to live our life? How healthy do we want to be? Who do we want to show up every as every single day?

Who do we want around?

We have to be very conscious of who we're including in that, because it does equal who we end up being at the end of the day.

Yeah. And I think we kind of, at least I do forget how interconnected the different areas of our lives are. She's like, oh, yeah, I keep my promises to myself and my business, but I don't keep my promises to myself in terms of my diet and exercise. You are this. You are breaking promises to the same person. Right. You know, and that kind of will show up over. Over time. So you can't kind of silo different parts of your life and be like, okay, I'm going to be really committed to. Committed to this, but I'm just not going to be, you know, as honest with myself in these other areas. It. It's all interconnected and just on the. The whole, like, family and friends. That story is really, really sad. And I. Unfortunately, I think it's probably more common than we realize. It's. It's also not. It's. It's also not as obvious when you're in it. Like, when you, when you stop drinking or you, you stop, you know, eating takeaways or stop whatever it is that you're doing, sometimes it's not that obvious that your friends go, oh, my God, you're not doing this, and I want you to do this, or, I'm not going to be friends with you. Sometimes it's just like a subtle dig or they hit a nerve, or it's, It's. It creeps up on you. So we all kind of fall victim to it because we were prepared for the really obvious conversations, but it's. It's rarely like that.

Yeah.

Does that make sense? It made sense in my head.

No, 100% makes sense. I've. I've. So I'm dry. Like, I'll have a little glass of wine, or I had a Campari soda with Carrie in New York. But, like, I've maybe had three beverages in the last year, you know? But, like, it just. It gives me anxiety. I don't really enjoy how I feel afterwards.

Whatever.

And the first time I gave up alcohol, I actually sat down with my friend Tim, who had been dry for numerous months, and I was like, how do you explain this to people?

Yeah, right.

Like, how do you. How do you go about your day? Because we all know that that moment of being in a social situation where someone isn't drinking, you're like, you sure? Here? And, like, how do you navigate that? And it is. There's, like, the mental preparation for it. But then there's also dealing with the ramifications that you didn't expect.

What was it like for you? I mean, have you. Have you dealt with people who.

Were questioning dramatically? But I've lost friends, absolutely. Like, there are. There are friends who genuinely don't know what to do if they're not drinking.

Yeah, I have that too, you know, buddies.

And it's like, it's, you know, I can be around people who are drinking. It's totally fine, you know, but, like, for them, it brings too much awareness to, oh, how many beverages have I had? And they're completely sober, you know?

Yeah.

And it's the same thing, like, with business. Like, since I've started my business, like, I've also lost friends, you know, because there are friends who, like, we used to, like, just shoot the. About all of our business ideas all the time, you know, like, and not act on them. And then I started acting on them, and it brought a lot of awareness to what they weren't acting on, you know, and it's never been outright said, but I know that's one of the reasons we don't spend time together anymore.

Yeah, I. I have friends, not in the business space, but friends before who I don't have. I don't have the time that I used to. To, like, sit around and text for long periods of time.

And.

And because I'm not able to, you know, whatever, shoot through shit, that friendship has dropped off. And it's not because. Stop. Because necessarily that I don't have the time, but they don't understand why I don't have the time. It's very hard to explain what it is that I'm doing because they're not in the same space. And I get that.

Right.

But it's. It can be really, really lonely is what I'm. What I've come to realize.

Yeah.

I heard someone recently use the analogy. It's like, you know that friend that keeps going back to the X even though the X is trash. Mm. It's like when you. Even though the friendship may still be there, but if you've moved on and they're still grappling with the same problems, and they're still. Like you were saying, Katie, like, they're not taking action. They're like, they're complaining about the algorithm or whatever, rather than taking a look at what it is that they're doing. And they're posting once a month and they're wondering why they're not a millionaire. And that was fine when you both had that problem. But then you realized and you took action, and now it's craps. So. Yeah, it's like, it's not, it's sometimes it's not even an intentional thing. It's not like the. It's just that you don't have anything in common anymore or it's not even that you don't have anything in common. You're like, I cannot keep having the same conversation. I can't keep talking. Do a play by play of every text you sent your ex that I know you're going to get back with next week. Like, right, right.

Yeah.

I've got an empire to build. Leave me alone.

Love you. Love you. But, like, go over there. I like that I have an empire to build. That and some of the other words that you taught me today, too.

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think the, the, the conclusion we can come to then is that, like, to be accountable, you don't just need, like, to know what works for you. You need people who will evolve with you.

Yeah.

And you need to have this, this readiness or the okayness to, like, let go of relationships that are no longer, like, being that accountability for you to reach those goals without. Without, like, labeling it, like, you're a bad person because you stop being friends.

With them or this is toxic or whatever. Not that necessarily, but. Yeah.

Yeah.

Finding the right tribe, right? Yeah, yeah. It's key.

And, and often the right tribe is people who are doing, like, different things in different areas, but with the same drive.

I think that's actually super important. I think it's actually not great to have people that are quote, unquote, your, Your competitors.

Right.

Because even without meaning to, you're going to get into that compare thing, because if they get a break, and then you might end up unintentionally copying or if you come up with an idea, it's like, who gets to use? Whereas if you're in two different industries, it doesn't matter. You can shoot the shit a little bit more. And then you're like, oh, my God, I've got this, a great idea. You should do it as well. And it's not a. It's not a thing. It also, this is something that, like, I learned when I was in design school was in order to create something, nothing is new, but in order to create something new, you have to look for inspiration outside of the normal things. Like, the most common one is when Steve Jobs came back to Apple, it was because he had stumbled into a calligraphy class and he understood the power of design and that's why Apple took on this, you know, put design front and center. We were always told to look at, like, architecture and different types, different industries for inspiration. And I think the same thing works because if you get into your bubble of your peers, you kind of create this group think dynamic.

Right.

Whereas if you have people who are in different locations and different industries, there's a lot more inspiration and a lot more things can happen and a lot more magic can happen, I think, in those situations.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Agreed. 100.

Yeah. Love it.

Yeah.

Well, with that, I know we all. I mean, Michelle, you're just starting your day. Carrie and I, towards the end of.

Ours, going to bed immediately.

I know. Same accountability that we're really excited that we get from each other.

What is the accountability that we're really.

Excited that we hold each other. Each other accountable for?

I love that you guys push me. Yeah. And again, kind of like the different areas. Yeah. So, Katie, you know, business strategy and then Carrie talking on camera, doing a bit of pr, and all your different experiences all kind of bounce off each other. And together we kind of create this kind of little unit where we're all bringing something different to the pie. I don't know why where the that analogy came from. My brain squirrel. But, you know, so we're all in the coaching space, but, like, that we're bringing our own different expertise so we can kind of bounce off each other. Yeah, yeah. And then we're holding each other accountable.

Yeah. Well, what I like about working with you too, is that, like, I feel like I'm in my zone of expertise, but I'm also learning more.

Right.

Like, it's like I get to do exactly what I'm really good at, but I get to do it through two new lenses that I would never have thought about it before from.

Yeah, yeah.

Through which. Yeah.

You know, I mean, there's many times that I, like, I quote you, Katie, when I'm in coaching calls with my clients. You know, it's kind of. I quote these sessions because something came up and I'm like, oh, like the crab analogy. That would probably be something that I will you before the week is over, different things that I can bring in or you tell me a story and I'm like, oh, yeah, that applies. So it's kind of bringing in those different things that I didn't think about. And then also because I work from home for the majority of the time, it's kind of like getting me out of my bubble.

Right.

A lot easier, which I love. Yeah.

I. I like the same thing. I think to some degree that I am experiencing what I do. But I see it through. Michelle, I see it through your lens. And Katie, I see it through your lens. And, and business strategy and branding are not at all my areas of expertise. Like most of the time during our calls, I just sit there in silence and nod my head as if I have any friggin clue what the hell either of you are talking about.

You're very convincing, though. You're very convincing.

I spent 20 years on the news. I know how to look like I understand what people are saying, Even if I have no friggin idea. But. But it is, it is incredibly helpful to hear the two of you talk about what it is that you do because it gives me ideas outside of our super secret project. It gives me ideas about ways that I can also talk to my clients or understand a little bit more about their challenges. And then of course, you two hold me accountable, you know, for. Well. Well, maybe not directly. I understand I have there. I have to hold up my end of what it is that we're working on together. And that pushes me to think forward and it pushes me to. To stay on task, which for me is one of the hardest things.

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think the fact that there's three of us also helps because you don't want to be the odd one out if there's two. It's very easy to be like. Like the, like if you had a running buddy or a gym buddy. It's very easy. We'll just sleep in this morning. But like, it's gonna be a lot harder to convince two of you to let me off the hook, so. And you also don't want to be the one that lets the group project down.

Right, Right, right. Yeah.

It'd be different if it was. We were all working on our own individual thing and then just checking in with each other, like. Yeah, it didn't really happen the way.

It was supposed to this week.

Whatever. I owe you guys stuff and you owe us stuff and you, you know.

And if you don't get it in, you're holding the shit up.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

That's true.

Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway, thank you guys for doing this.

Thank you.

Yeah. And to Chris and Jatin. Jatan and Chris and Alejandro and Henry, thank you guys so much for joining and join us next week. We're going to be talking more about something we haven't decided yet, what we usually decide, like in the middle of our first meeting.

So that's a hell of a tease. We're gonna talk more about something.

Oh, wait, next week is the night before Thanksgiving, so we're probably not doing it then.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. Fair enough.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I have to.

Come over. Hang out with me. I won't be celebrating Thanksgiving. Come hang out with me. I'll. I'll. I'll talk to myself.

Perfect.

Perfect.

I'll create a little heads on sticks.

That probably sounds super intelligent.

Unhinged in the best way.

No, I would. I would. I would. I would do. Yeah, I would do something I would probably regret, so. Probably won't.

All right, thank you, guys.

Thank you. All right, bye, everyone. Thank you. Hi.

Hi.