How to make your boring life sound interesting

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Hello and good afternoon. I am Katie McManus, Business Strategist, Money mindset, coach, and I'm here today with Meredith Adams, who's a brilliant copywriter, and she is the owner of Cactus Girl Media. Meredith, thank you so much for being here.

Definitely, anytime. I'm so excited to chat with you. How are you?

I'm great. How are you?

Good, good, good.

Just a little housekeeping. I am. We are going live to both my Facebook accounts, LinkedIn, YouTube, and Twitter, or X or whatever it is now, which. I mean, what a whole show that is.

I need to start. I need to look into this how to. How to do lives across, like, all the. All the platforms.

Yeah, no, it's a game changer. It makes life so much easier.

Yeah, for sure.

And today we're talking about how to use story in your social media to attract clients.

Yes. Which is my favorite thing to. In the world. Yeah. Ever.

Well, it's so funny because, you know, I think I went through this when I first started, and all of my clients go through this is they look at their lives and they're, like, not impressed with what they're like. My life is so boring because they've lived, thankfully, a very, like, typical life, and they've, you know, nothing big and traumatic has happened to them. Like, they haven't gone and conquered the world. You know, they just kind of have gone along, and then something changed, and they wanted to do something brave, and they don't see that as an extraordinary moment. And, like, it's hard to figure out how to tell that story. And I'm curious, you know, what's the advice that you give when. When working with a client who questions if they're interesting enough?

You are. Everyone is so freaking interesting. Oh, my God. And there's so many things. The social media platform formerly known as Twitter, some Twitter. Someone said, yeah, sorry, I just got distracted. Yeah. Everyone is so interesting, and we all go through so much stuff that, like, it doesn't feel interesting to us necessarily, or it doesn't feel like, how do I. How do I explain this? Like, it's just life. You know, this is just, like, it's just daily life, and we do so many extraordinary things and overcome so many, like, extraordinary obstacles that if you told someone else the story, they would be like, holy crap, you're amazing. Like, how did you put up with this. And I'm seeing a lot of this with myself right now because I'm writing my. I, I'm writing a book. And it is about the seven years that I spent in a multi level marketing, commercial, cult and all of the abuse. And so it's been really a lot personally because I. There's so like just going down this rabbit hole of memories and all this stuff that happened. And like, there was a time when like I was in the hospital or I had, I had to go to the hospital and they were like mad at me for like not going to the conference and stuff and like. Yeah, like this. Yeah, yeah. And all of that at the time felt like, oh, okay, whatever, you know, but like realizing it now and thinking about it now is like, oh, it's absolutely a cult. There's no, there's no other word for it. Yeah, yeah, these are, these are facts. But yeah, like there's just these, this was just daily events, daily life. Like you brush your teeth, your upline abuses you, you make your dinner, you know, someone cuts you off in traffic. Like, whatever, you know, it is, it is what it is. So I really think that for some people, a lot of it is, is sitting down and taking time to think about those stories. And that's, that's a lot of what I do with, with my clients is like, I'm big on like deep dive workshops or like I will sit with someone for two hours and just ask them question after question of like, you know, what, what happened when, you know, what happened with this, with this divorce or with, you know, this, this job loss or something, you know, something that obviously like relates to what they want to do now, but, you know, and we just go deeper into it and what did that feel like and what's coming up for you and like how does that feel in your body and what does it feel like now to be on the other side of that and what did you learn from it? And so much stuff. So I think that, I think that what it boils down to is that there is just so much more to daily life that is really, really interesting. Yeah, it's hard for us to see it, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, a couple things come up for me in that is that I think when people start thinking about telling their story, they're like, well, a, it's not interesting and B, like, do I have to get super vulnerable? Because I think what most people are seeing or have, have to model after is you know, the people kind of vulnerability dump on Facebook Yeah. You know, and there's a big difference between, like, what you share on Facebook to people who, like, generally, you know, from, like, school or previous jobs or their family members or whatever, you know, grandma's sick. Here's all the details of her illness. Here's the hospital she's at. If you want to go visit her here or visiting versus, like, social media. It's like, what's. What does it feel like to be juggling between spending time with an ill relative and doing this thing? And how are you showing up for your.

Still. Yeah.

You don't necessarily have to share all the nitty gritty details.

Right, right.

But, like, the things that are relatable about the human condition, and that's a.

Big part of it, too, is that. So when I. So in the spring, I took a publishing course and I said that. So, like, I mean, when it comes to. And like, in all honesty, like, when it comes to people in MLM cults, my story is super vanilla. Like, there are even, like, people that I knew. Like, people that, like, I know. Like, I know people that were, like, put into arranged marriages by their uplines and, like, like, crazy, crazy shit. And then there's all the, like, you know, and then there's all the, like, sensational stuff that you see in, like. Like, the Lulu Rich documentary. Like that woman who, like, lost her house and whatever. And, I mean, all these anti MLM Facebook groups and, like, people literally die every day because they, like, get cancer or something, fuse treatment for their cancer, and they think that their. Their MLM products are going to save them. And, like, yeah, yeah. Like, those stories are all too common. So, like, me, like, okay, like, I had to go to the hospital because, like, I have a. I have a blood condition, and so I thought that I might be having a blood clot, and I was really scared. I had to go to the hospital. Everything turned out to be fine. They were mad at me. Whatever. I went to the conference the next day. Like, it's like, kind of whatever, you know.

You still went to the conference?

I did. I did, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that's the power that, you know, organizations like that can hold.

Oh, yeah, Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I was fine. Like, I was not, like, it was. It was kind of a weird thing. Like, even when I was, like, really, like, even when I was, like, in critical condition, I did not feel, like, sick. Like, I never felt, like, you know, like, I was just, like, I felt fine. Like, I felt well and healthy, but, like, I wasn't at all, like, every Doctor would, like, pull back the curtain. Then they would expect to see someone, like, just like, you know, on their deathbed and that they would pull back the curtain and see me just, like, sitting around, like, fiddling on my iPad, like, playing around. I'd be like, hey, what's up?

Right?

And there's like, shock. Like, what? Like, are you the one? And I even refused to wear. This is a whole other story. But, like, I even refused to wear the hospital gown. I was like, no, no, I'm wearing my pajamas. Yeah, but. Yeah, and sometimes so. So those things, you know, so when I was taking that course, I told the instructor that, like, sometimes I felt like, you know, I wasn't in an arranged marriage. I wasn't, you know, whatever. And I feel like me telling my story is just plain vanilla compared to. And, like, am I really gonna get, like, does anybody really want to read this? Is anybody, like, is anybody actually gonna give me, like, a book deal about this, like, you know, story when they could give the book deal to the person that was in the arranged marriage or whatever? And he told me something that, like, I really, really kind of changed the game for me is that we do, like, obviously, like, in culture, like, we do enjoy these super sensationalized stories, like, and then she died and they lost their house and everything. And it's like, you know, this, like, doom and gloom kind of like true crime stuff. But the stories that stick with us the most are just about everyday people putting up with shit and being vulnerable through it and living through it and growing through it. And. And that's like, what is actually helpful and impactful to people. Does that make sense? No.

100%, I think. You know, an author that I love is Glennon Doyle.

Right.

You know, like, she. She comes from. She. She had bulimia. She was a drug addict. She was an alcoholic. Like, you know, and then she got pregnant and cleaned herself up and married the guy that, you know, got pregnant with, and they had three kids. And then, you know, but like, there are stories of drug addicts and alcoholics and people who have blimy who had it way worse.

Yeah.

You know, the story could be way more tumultuous. And yet, like, I don't have kids. I've never been. Had an addiction. But, like, you can relate so much more to her story.

Exactly.

There's one thing that I'll never forget. Like, she was talking about how she's at the playground, she was talking to some moms, and she felt like such a fraud because she had, like, this Kind of shitty past.

Yeah.

No one, no one guessed it about her. And she realized that because she was, like, blonde and she wore designer jeans and she always seemed happy, everyone assumed that she had her shit together.

Yeah.

And I read that and I was.

Like, oh, my God.

That's why everyone thinks I have my shit together.

I, I have been having to think about that a lot lately with just, like, my appearance and how I, I guess just like, naturally present myself to the world and the, and, and the vibe that I give off and, like, what people think and stuff and like, kind of just been like, oh, well, if I say this, they're going to think, like, you know, this because of the way I look or whatever. And it's like, huh, that is so fascinating. Yeah. Yeah.

So, I mean, like, an interesting thing is just these moments of realization that we have that changes how we show up to different scenarios. I think. I think we. We don't credit those moments for being interesting because it's just like, oh, cool. That was just my progression.

Yeah.

But those are the moments that people like, oh, my God.

Yes.

That hits home for me too.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Definitely.

Yeah. Let me see.

Fifty Shades of Gray would have been. Hold on. Better had the narrator portion been written better. Oh, it's about the narrator. The narrator and the delivery of the story. Yeah. I've not read. I've not read 50 Shades of Gray, so I'm gonna, I, I'm gonna let you have that one, Justin.

So I'm curious, when you're working with a client and, you know, they're in this moment of doubt and they're like, I'm just not interesting. What are some of the questions that you ask to get their kind of juices flowing?

You know, usually when I'm trying to think, I don't know. Okay. I, I have worked with people that they know they have a story, but they don't. Like, this one woman was had, like, had experienced financial abuse and for like, 12 years or how long she was, like, with this guy and she wasn't allow to, like, you know, do this and this and this, or, like, couldn't leave the house or, like, had to ask him for money for everything. And they tell things. They know that that's a. So, like, she knew that that's a story. Like, she knew that that was, you know, it was a big game changer in her life. She was able to leave him. She got her together, you know, whatever. Like, everything is much better now. But she didn't. And it could be that sometimes People. When people have trauma like that, you have to kind of, like, step back from it and, you know, just tell it, like, factually. And so then I'm in there, like, okay, like, that is really big. Like, let's hold some space for that. Like, you just told me something that, like, I'm having an emotional reaction to. Like, I need to take a minute for myself. I can't imagine what you're feeling and telling this. And they're like, it's okay, whatever, right? So, like, let's unpack that and kind of like, so why, like, why do you feel it's okay? How would you feel if your best friend told you that this happened to them?

Right.

How would you feel if I told you? If I were the one telling you this? Like, how would you, you know, how would you feel? How would you react? And so sometimes it's. It's about getting to those emotions that are hidden for people because of protection. So that is a challenge that I've. That I've had. I've not really had the challenge of someone not thinking they're interesting, I guess. No, that's not true. I guess I have. But, like, we. That's usually pretty easy to overcome when, you know, you just start asking, like, okay, well, like, so what made you decide to start this business? Like, what is your reasoning behind that? And what is your, you know, and then, like, they'll tell me something. They might, you know, we eventually, like, hit on the thing. That's really, you know, and then I know what to dig into. So I think it's just a matter of kind of questioning and getting to that thing. Asking enough questions to get to that. That thing, whatever it is, and then zeroing in on the thing and showing them, like, okay, well, and then, you know, you know, this, like, this is really big. And then when you start talking about that, it's interesting how the doors start opening to, you know. Yeah, well. And actually, like, this happened when I was a kid and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So now you're telling me that, like, you, you know, in your childhood, like, you were primed to experience this, and then, like, this is why you felt so crappy about yourself that you, you know, became a victim of domestic abuse or, you know, whatever it is. Right. And now here we are, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny.

You're describing this, and it's. I almost wrote a post about this today where it's like, you know, you. If you want to start A business like, be prepared to go into the deep underbelly of all the trauma and all the garbage that is like, you know, happened in your life, because it all comes out like anything that you believe about yourself. And actually, this is. Goes with Justin's question. Do you think that fear of judgment comes from negative self talk? I think it comes from a lot of stuff, but it can also come from trauma and, you know, basic beliefs that were taught from very, very young.

Yeah. Yeah. I think for me, the. For me, the fear, the. The judgment always comes from me. Like, always comes from that, like, idiot in my head that's like, well, so, like, you know, what do you really do for people? Like, like, what do you really, like, why. Why are people paying you for that? Like, what are you really doing for them? Like, blah, blah, blah. Like, that really just like, harsh. Like, like, come on, what the. Have you ever done with your life? You know, and you just, like, live in my head doing nothing, like, rent free. Like, calm down. So when you. I feel like. So that has always been. And a big thing for me has been like, going back and figuring out, like, whose voice is that actually? And for me, it was my parents. Right. And which I think it is for many of us, if not our parents and like some other, you know, caretaker, someone like, super important in our lives. And so that kind of, like, that's when we get into, like, the inner child healing and like, the trauma healing and stuff like that. But then there's also kind of, like, I read once that one way to kind of, I guess, like, combat that. That voice or that that negative self talk is to actually, like, pretend that you have to argue your case in a court of law. Like, like, I suck at, like, I suck at copyright. I suck at everything I do. I'm never gonna make money. Okay. So now, like, I'm going in front of a judge saying, like, this is why I suck. This is why I will never make money. This is why I will never move forward. And then like, kind of using that, like, Socratic method that they use in. In law school to, like, uncover these questions. Okay, well, what evidence do you have for that?

Right?

And then it's like, well, nothing. So that's been something that's been really, really helpful for. For me.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny because the whole mantra and, like, manifestation thing, there's a similar practice in a positive way where, for me, like, mantras never seem to work.

Yeah.

You know, repeating the same sentence over and over, like, it. It doesn't have any meaning to me. This is actually really simple. This is really common with people who have ADHD and who have echolalia. Because we're just repeating stuff all the. Yeah, right. And so it doesn't have any. Any significance. And yet you can flip it on its head. Like, if you say you're going to make a million dollars next year, you can ask, why? Why am I going to make a million dollars next year? Well, I'm going to work really hard. Why? Oh, well, I'm going to restructure my packages to do blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, well.

Why?

Well, I have a new marketing plan. I'm going to be doing this, this, this, and this. Why? So it's like, it's very evidence based of what are you building towards? And do you actually have all the things that are going to help you get to that big goal?

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That's so. That's something. I've been thinking a lot about myself lately because I'm like, I restructured everything. I had. Like, I had. I mean, you know, what I went through last year with copywriting and from the asshole in our head is. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Maybe not any New York Times critic. Who's that guy on, like, that, like, Top Chef or something? Who's known. Is it Gordon Ramsay? He's known for being like, he's the worst. He's so mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, I would love to have. As my critic is Tim Gunn, Project Runway.

He's.

He's a fashion. He's a fashion guy. He works at Parsons, but he's always like, are you sure about this?

Yeah, make it work. I like that. I like that. Yeah, yeah. I like that approach because it kind of opens up a conversation. Like, well, here's why I chose this. Yeah. You know what? Like, what, What. What are your thoughts on it? Yeah.

Well, I'm just concerned that X, Y, and Z will blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it gives them some information, some data to play with. Yeah, right. And then he leaves it to them. You know, he doesn't get micromanaging about it.

Whereas Gordon Ramsay is just a huge. Like, he just is there to. To make fun of people. Unless it's children. He's super nice to children.

So nice.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

So funny. Anyway.

Anyway, back to. Back to last year.

Oh, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, things since I left nyu, like, things have been very, like. Like, I've had months of, like, huge success and then months of, like, not so much. Success. And I rebuilt everything in, in the spring, like I started from. I had months, like January and February. It was like, probably, like, I mean, I probably did like 20 sales calls and it was just like, oh my gosh, like, this is exactly what I'm looking for. This is exactly what I need. Like, this is like, you just described my dream program. This is so cool, you know, but thanks, but no thanks, right? Like, like, and at first it was like, okay, whatever. Like, like things have been going so well. Like there's like a, you know, there's bound to be some like, you know, something to push against. But then it was like over and over. So then I was like, okay, there's a problem. Like, I have to do some work on the niche. So I started doing that whole process and kind of disappeared for like a month or so while I was working on that. And then came and rebrand, redid my website, dropped, you know, like all of that, started putting out new, like, rebranded the content, rebranded the. I mean, it's the same program basically, but it just has a different name and is like, you know, kind of set up a little bit differently and started putting that out there. And so, you know, there's a lot of like, fears and doubts that come with like, you know, especially being in like your first couple of years of business, like, oh my God, is this gonna work? But I keep telling myself and leaning into this, this really strong internal faith that I have that like, yeah, this is going to work. Like, I don't really know why I feel that way. I mean, I know that I'm really good at what I do and I know that I'm really impactful and that I have a lot to say. And this is like, it truly feels like I'm following the path that's, that's meant for me. You know, the logistics of like, you know, how that works is gonna obviously be a little bit of a learning curve, but it's just like this tapping into this really, really strong intuition that this is this, this is what's right. And yeah, like, I work my ass off. Like, I market myself every day. I talk to, I talk to clients every day. I, you know, and that is all like the compound effect. There's, there's definitely a compound effect when it comes to your, your business and your marketing, really.

Right, right.

Well, it's interesting.

I was reading something I got. Do you ever, like, just go down a tick tock wormhole and then end up buying because you're like, oh, I think I need that?

Of Course, I bought this massive book.

The Joseph Murphy Treasury.

Wow. A little.

A little religious for me, but it has some really interesting points, but one of them is that, like, while Babe Ruth has, like, had a record of the most home runs and I know nothing about sports, so just forgive me. We focus on that. We don't focus on the fact that he also had the highest strikeout average. Yeah, right. Like, he just had more at bats than anyone else.

Yeah, right.

But he didn't give up. And that's something that, like, as business owners, we. We only really see people's successes.

Yeah.

We only see, like, them bragging about how much money they're making and how many clients are serving and all this stuff.

And.

And also, like, we're not seeing all those moments where the program didn't land.

Yeah.

We had 20 sales calls, not a single yes. Like, you know, this happened to all of us, and yet we don't talk enough.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a really powerful thing to bring into. To bring into your marketing is, like, not everything was just sunshine and roses. Failed. You know, I failed a lot. Tick tock made me buy it.

Actually, Justin had a really interesting question, but it was long, so I wanted to make sure we had a moment for it. To the point about being a good copywriter. Take into account that for all the things people have rave about chat gbt, the ability to write even decent copy, still GPT, I'll leave that creative skill to a human.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. ChatGPT is good for when you're stuck in your mind of, like, you're. There's just like this one sentence or this one point that you're trying to make and you're struggling about, like, how to put it together. Like, you don't have to spend that mental energy on that anymore. Like, you can just go to ChatGPT and say, like, I'm trying to say this. Can you, you know, can you write it? And it'll give you, like, 10 different options? And then you're like, oh, yeah, that's. That's. That's. That's all I needed. Thank you.

Well, it's funny because I tried to do that early on with, you know, my tagline, stop being a weenie and start your business already. And I forget the prompt I gave it. But it was like, I'm sorry, I can't do inappropriate jokes.

And I'm like, no, it's not an inappropriate joke.

It's about people who are afraid of doing the thing.

Okay, well, here's a funny story about something that just happened to me with ChatGPT. And I don't know if I've been like, put on a list now, but so, all right, so I. So right now, like, I'm writing my. My book, which is like a memoir, thought leadership. I really want, you know, I hate that MLMs prey on. They prey on women who are already stretched so thin and they're all. And it's. And they're. Most of these women are already part of a system that is set up against them. They're working in jobs that keep them broken, exhausted, and are dealing with, you know, they're single moms. And it's just. It's just a completely broken system that. I hate this because it's like the MLM is like really a wolf in sheep's clothing because they're like, you know, we're, you know, like, going to help you with all of that, but it's really just like making it worse and perpetuating, you know, so that's one of my main points. And then pointing to the idea, kind of like more of a thought leadership standpoint that, you know, if you can learn sales skills, if you can learn basic sales skills, you don't need a degree, you don't need anything fancy. You can. But you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year either working a job in sales, which. Those tend to be pretty good jobs for people that need flexibility because you are, you know, you set up your own calendar and then. Or, you know, and then there's of course, like, entrepreneurship, which, like, if you are a business owner, you are a salesperson primarily. So, you know, there's that too. So that's what I'm working on right now. But once that's finished, I have a lot of ideas to, like, write novels about, like, true crime within MLMs. So I've been thinking a lot lately about, like, how could you use, like, how could you use an MLM to. For like, dealing drugs or human trafficking or whatever and like this into chat GPT. Like, could an MLM be just. Could you. Could you use human trafficking disguise in the MLM. And ChatGPT came up with all this, like, I cannot condone this, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, my God. They're like, the feds are coming. Oh, my God. Well, this.

Okay, so side note, funny story, There's a place in Santa Cruz, or there was a place in Santa Cruz that was right along Route 17. If you're not familiar with Santa Cruz, like, you have to Go on this super windy kind of illegal highway. Like, it violates 37 different high highway regulations that, you know, the, the board of transfer transportation, the United States dictates. Anyway, there is this Mexican restaurant that opened up kind of like off one of the exits. And they were selling drugs, but they were selling cocaine. And. But the code word when someone wanted cocaine or like, you know, I guess like an eight ball was they would order chicken nachos, which is a really dumb thing because if you're in California and you're a Mexican restaurant, like, and you have chicken nachos on the menu, people are gonna order chicken nachos.

Right. Normal thing. Yeah.

Maybe there's like a certain shade of lips lipstick that is like contraband stuff and people order it and don't realize that and they end up getting this thing and then it, it like traps them into it because they get caught with it or something. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, well, and when I was in it, people were selling like you were like lauded if, if you could sell like, if you could upsell something. So like there was like a skin cream that was like 200 and people would be like, yeah, I sold it to this woman for like 500 or something. And like, and it was like, you could control your, your pricing. Like you could. Yes. Just are on. So LinkedIn is not my primary audience, like, platform at all, but I, I need to start utilizing it more. Katie and I were talking about this the other day, and if you're the kind of person that's on LinkedIn, then these are my people.

If you're not connected with Meredith yet, go and connect with her now.

Yes, yes. Yeah. After this, I need to just start cross posting my stuff to. I mean, I do sometimes press post LinkedIn, but it's like, that's not enough. You have to like put the time in to build the platform and. Right.

And also like the stuff that works on, on other platforms, like sometimes it doesn't land on LinkedIn.

Yeah.

It has to be completely different.

Yeah, yeah. So I don't know, but that's, yeah, that's, that's coming soon. But. Oh, yeah. So skin cream sold for like, you know, 200. So what if like you sold the, you know, the skin cream or the laundry detergent and say, yeah, I sold this laundry detergent for $700. I'm just a really freaking awesome salesperson. And the laundry, like the wholesale price for the laundry detergent, maybe like $20. Right, but you sold it like, like they're gonna be like, oh, wow, like, you're an amazing salesperson. Can you come speak at our conference? Like, but you're a drug dealer.

Right?

You know. Right.

And what I love, I mean, to relate it back to the topic for today is like, even just talking through these ideas that we have. Like, this is interesting.

Yeah.

You know, just talking about the creative process and how you think through things and like, you know, how you think someone could get away with something. Yeah, you know, it's fascinating.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. So I'm curious, you know, when clients are worried about getting too vulnerable, you know, how do you tackle that with them?

You really have to. First of all, I really try to, like, screen who I'm working with. Like, I really want to attract people that have done the work. Like, I am not a life coach. Like, if you are going to be wishy washy in terms of like, oh, but I can't talk about this, or like, blah, blah, blah, or like, I have a difficult time working with people that are like, super private. That's just hard for me that, you know, can't deal with, like, exposing, you know, like showing a picture of their living room or whatever. Like, you know, and my mom's like, that she would never, like, post a picture of. Like, she asked me to take a picture of one of our cats down because it was on her pillow, like on her bed. And she was like, that's my bed. Those are my pillows. Like, like, I don't want that anything. And I'm like, can you make this make sense for me? Like, I don't understand. It's a pillow. So I do try to like, scream those out because there's a certain amount of, like, I don't have the skill set to be able to, like, I'm not your therapist, you know, but there is, you know, when people do have trauma around, like, this thing happened to me and people, you know, So I had a lady the other day who she was. Her husband physically abused her and he was arrested. And it was like a pretty small town. So this was like news. Like, they had him, like, the, the cops had him like handcuffed on the front lawn. And like he was standing there, you know, she was like sitting on the front porch and like, watching this all happen. And so it was like this hugely like horrible, embarrassing thing. And everyone at work kind of turned their back on her or she felt that they turned her back on her and they started just like excluding her from the group and like, not, you know, including her and stuff. And, you know, I Said that most likely these people were. It made them uncomfortable. Like, it made. They did not have the resources to deal with. With what you dealt with. It was just so real and traumatic for them.

Right.

And they're crappy people. And I'm sorry that that happened. And she was very, like, she had been up until now. She's decided to be brave now, but up until now, she has had a lot of fear around sharing that street. She was like, well, why would I. I. You know, why would that be interesting to people? Like, why would that. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, and I told her, too. I was like, if you're up for this, you. My advice would be to write the story. Like, talk about how your business, you know, you. You. This happened. People turn their backs on you. You started your business. And, like, you know, I would just write like a super. It doesn't even have to be written. Well, just, like, talk about what happened. Share that on the Internet. Share that in any entrepreneurial Facebook group on the Internet. And people are going to be so amazed. Like, so amazed by you. Like, it's going to be such an uplifting experience. I guarantee you that all of that trauma is going to go away.

You know what blows me away? So, you know, I've been helping people start their businesses for four years now, and I. They're only, like, less than five people I can name who don't come from some kind of trauma that kicks them into starting their business.

Yeah.

It's almost like a point on the healing journey. You know, it's like this declaration of independence. Claiming your power. It's owning your story. It's really owning, like, everything that you have to contribute to the world.

Yeah. And.

And naming. There's value to this. There's value to me, and there's value to this. And not submitting. I think also there's a lot of workplace trauma and toxicity.

So.

Yes. That, like, you're no longer willing to put up with it.

Yeah.

You know, and you're never going to put yourself in a situation where you are, you know, submitting to that kind of situation.

Yeah. Yeah. That's funny, because as you were talking about that, like, I was thinking, like, so the very first business. So I started my first business 12 years ago when I first moved to New York, and I was a. It was a tourism company, and I did food and tasting tours in the ethnic enclaves all around New York City, even including Staten island, because there's an amazing Sri Lankan community in Staten Island. And this day that's, like, some of the best food I've ever had.

Yeah. Justin, he has a rule of three for situation. I think this goes back to who you were talking about before is. Is all the people. How do you sort through them? I think that's all great advice, Justin.

Yeah.

But anyway, sorry. The Sri Lankans.

Yeah. So best. We've got to go. We've got to go to street. Well, you know what? Let's just go to Sri Lanka. Why do we want to go to Staten Island? We're. We're entrepreneurs now. Anyway, so. So I was thinking as you were telling that story, I was like, well, I didn't. Didn't start that business out of any, like, major trauma. I just didn't want to spend my life, like, behind a desk. And then when you said workplace trauma, I was like, oh, yeah. Like, because I had, like, I had a boss that would, like, call me if it was, like, 8. She would, like, call the office phone at, like, 801 to, like, see if I answered, and then, like, text me. And there was like, there were these train tracks that I had to cross the. To get to the building. And it was like, okay, like, calm down. Like, you know, like, I've never understood, like, what happens at this time. That means that, like, I have to, like, we have to be sitting in our desks. Like, I don't understand, like, does an albatross come by and, like, drop a message.

That has to be deactivated every day at 801?

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Because if that's the case, that's pretty important. I'll be there. I'll be there at 6. I'll be waiting.

Right, right. Yeah.

You know, like that guy in Loss that had to push the button every 45 minutes.

I never watched Lost.

Oh, my gosh. It was so good. It was such a good show. But, yeah, they had. Well, this is like. It was like a psychological experiment. Nothing happened if he didn't push the button, but he had been living on this island in this bunker for years, and he had to push a button every 45 minutes or else, like, the island would blow up, the world would end or whatever. And so finally, like, they. They get him out of this. Of his bunker, and he's like, I have to push the button. I have to push the button. If I don't, then finally, like, the time comes and nothing happens. Yeah. And he's like, oh, my God, it was all a lie. But, yeah, like, that's not necessarily, like, trauma, but it was annoying. And I Didn't want to be tired all the time. I didn't want to be, like, stressed all the time for that. Doesn't really matter at the end of the day, you know, that's, like, not important. And so I think that really was what it was. And then I was like. And I just started thinking, like, you know, what is something that I could do that I would actually, like, care about that is my thing and not someone else's, and where I can control my schedules to where, like, you know, if I work better in the evenings, then I can work in the evenings or whatever. Like, why do I have to participate in this. This. This act, this, like, you know, thing that's, like, set up that society? Like, why can't I think for myself and, like, do, you know, do my own thing and, like, come up with my own idea? So that was really, like, where it came from in the beginning. And then. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, from there, like. But I mean, I really had, like, no idea what I was doing, and there wasn't. And it was such a different time. Like, even just 12 years ago, like. Like, Instagram had not been invented yet. Right.

Yeah.

Or maybe, or I think it had started, but it was, like, very fringe. Like, no one was using Instagram. There were not. There weren't Facebook groups. There was no. Like, there was not. I mean, I'm sure there were, like, business coaches, but there were not.

Not to the degree there are now.

Yeah, they.

They train on very different. Know, and also, I don't think there was. There were that many. I mean, coaching really wasn't that big of a thing back.

Right, right.

You know, it's like, you. Like, I remember hearing one of my mentors, you know, like, five years ago, say that, you know, just in the last five years, he'd stopped getting asked when he went through airport security or international, you know, portals.

Portals.

That sounds like it's like a fancy. But anyway, like, you know, border control, like, stopped asking him, like, oh, are you a sports.

Sports coach?

Like, do you coach soccer?

Yeah. Yeah.

Because they genuinely hadn't heard of coaching.

Right, Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, like, it was just. It was such a different environment, and I had no idea what I was doing. And there. The resources weren't really there to, you know, to point me in the. In the right direction. And I don't know that even if there had been that, I would have realized, like, oh, that's a resource that can. That can help me. I remember Yelp was really big back then. Yelp Was like, if you want your business to do well, like, you have to be on Yelp. Yelp reviews. Like, that was like, that was it. And so, like, you could. Yelp had pretty good marketing. Like, you could pay them to come in and like, shoot a whole video about you and like, make it look really good. And I knew people that did kind of similar things to me that like, had a lot of. That had a lot of luck with that. But by and large I had no clue what I was doing. And so that made me a really. But I was excited and I was, you know, and. And I was just. Yeah, like, I, like, I realized. I was realizing that I liked the business part, the. The part of running a business much more than I liked, like the tour guide part. And so that kind of made me like a prime target for mlm. And so that was then like, like that took over like the next seven years of my life. And then me starting Cactus Girl Media and becoming a brand storyteller and a writer has really been like, I think the, the driving force behind that has been like the, the trauma that I Talking about the trauma that I experienced reclaiming my story, helping others reclaim their stories. And just a big fuss you to like this, you know, these systems that exist to hold us back and to. And, and to hurt us and to, you know, keep us from. I remember I think about these women all the time. So when I worked at nyu, I would take the commuter train of the Long Island Railroad into Independence Station every day. And there were. And it was like. I mean, it's different from the subway because it's like it comes at, you know, it comes like twice per hour. So you're at. To be like the 8:30 or the, you know, whatever. So there were all of these women and I saw them every day and we would talk. And over time you just got to know people. And I think about them all the time. They were all single moms. They had very little to. They had little to no support from their, you know, baby daddies. And they had. They all had. They all had like crap jobs kind of, you know, like. And I had a crap job too. And so. And they were just trying to. Because it's like if you have all of these things stacked against you in your life, how are you. How are you able to overcome and like, put forth the mental energy that you need to have, like, you know, a real, like. Like a standout career? That's why white males. Sorry, Justin. Are, you know, like, up until now, I think that's changing now. But like that's what the corporate looks the way that it does for most people. And you know, so these women were, you know, administrative assistants and whatever and so, and they were just so exhausted all the time. They would. And if they weren't sleeping, like sometimes, sometimes we would chat. You know, if it was like, you know, morning, a morning where you had more like a nice summer morning where the sun was out and you had a little bit more energy than normal or whatever, then you would chat and that's when we would get to know each other. But most of the time you would just like slug onto the train and they would sit down and sleep for those 18 minutes that it took to get to Penn Station. And then. Or they would shop on their phones. And I had a really big over shopping habit at the time, which was like one of the first things that I had to overcome. And it's like when you are in that position where you have no room in life, like you have no wiggle room, there's nothing for you ordering that $40 pair of shoes or like whatever, like just for that serotonin boost of like when I get home, these, these bright yellow shoes are going to be on my doorstep. And that is like what I am living for right now.

It's interesting you say that because that's actually a trauma response. It's actually like I, I got a money certification this past year and it's legitimately like spending money when, like spending $40 when you have 80 in your account.

Yeah.

And you're stressed about how you're gonna pay for dinner and for the week. It's actually a trauma response because like it's a self soothing. Soothing.

Yeah.

No, it's like the only thing, you know, to self soothe because you don't understand like the amount of stress that you're actually experiencing from the financial stress.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's really common. It's like, it's why when you're stressed out about money sometimes and you have a bunch of groceries in the refrigerator, you'll still go and like order takeout for 55.

Yeah.

Soothing thing.

Yeah.

All that anxiety and, and bad feelings that you're experiencing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense. And honestly. And that was like, that was kind of like the first, the first step on my journey of becoming a, becoming a business owner. But I wanted to get out of that cycle. I looked around and I was like, I don't have anything holding me back from, from fighting against this. It's just my willpower So I was like. So I cleaned up my finances. I actually stopped taking the commuter train because that was another. Was like, a 200 expense that I was like, that money can go to something else that can go towards that. And I really, like, took radical responsibility for just getting my finances in order and then, you know, getting my life in order. And this was even like. Like, this was kind of like my last couple of years of, like, MLM where, like, I wasn't really doing anything. You know, I was just kind of like, go to the conferences, show up, be a complete rebel. Like, after a while, like, I just. They. They wanted us to get up at, like. Like, we would get there on Friday. And the biggest thing that I looked forward to at the conferences after a while was like, the nap. Like, like, we would leave early Friday morning, and then we would get there and, like, check into the hotel early and get to take this, like, big, long nap. Some people had to be there at noon, but most people. Most people didn't have to be there until. Until, like, the evening. So you just had this time to, like, take a nap, go to the pool, hang out with your friends. And that was, like, my number one reason. Like, that was like. Like, I'm here for the nap. Like, it's just part of the conference. So. Yeah, and I just got to be, like, a huge rebel. Like, one time I. I think I was, like, legitimately, like, not feeling well or something. And so, like, this place that we were staying at had. It was like, it was in Ocean City, Maryland, and it was like these. These beach, like, like, condos on the water. And this one condo that we were staying at, like, I was in kind of like, the loft, and so. And the other girls were, like, in the. The only other room. It was. So it was like the loft living room and kitchen and then, like, basement rooms. So they were freezing in the basement and kept turning up the heat. But of course the heat, like, went up. So I was like, it's literally 95 degrees. So, like, I did not sleep well, was not feeling well the next day. And I was like, you know, I'm really not, like, I really can't. I really can't this morning. So end the of. Nothing happened. Like, nothing happened to me. Like, when I got there this afternoon, they were like, oh, my gosh, like, so sorry. Like, that really sucks. You know, I was like, wait a minute. I could do this every time. Like, so then that devolved that, like, you know, just slowly evolved into me. Like, me and, like, my downlines like, sitting on the dock at the same. At the same beach condos, smoking pot. Like. Like, truly, truly not giving a crap about anything. And that was the last conference that I ever went to because that was in January of 2020. I went out with a bang. Oh, my gosh. Why am I talking about this? What was my point? I'm not sure.

Okay, so final. Final advice you have to someone who's starting to tell their story.

Just tell it and honestly, like, if you're up for it, like, do what I was telling, you know, that. That one lady who had the. The trauma of, like, her, you know, her husband getting. Her husband hitting her, getting arrested. Her co workers didn't know how to deal with it, and so they froze her out. Go tell that story, whatever it is, in any entrepreneurial group on Facebook, honestly, and you're gonna get a huge amount of support. You are going to get. I mean, yeah, there are going to be a lot of people in your DMs that are like, yeah. What was the last conference, Justin? I'm just really curious.

It's funny. I went to. I come from sales and the sales conferences. You go to, like, talk about drugs.

Talk about. Oh, yeah. Illegal.

Oh, my God. And yeah.

Anyway, well, this was, like, so my. The MLM that I was in was, like, really, really conservative and very controlling with, like. Like, women had to wear dresses. Women had to wear. Like, you could not. Like, there was a standard that you could not deviate, and that included no cursing, no alcohol, and no drugs. So then there was me. And even from the very beginning, I was just. Just like, I'm not gonna do that.

Channel partners in Vegas. I can see that.

Totally. Is that a sales. Is that like a sales conference?

Yeah, it's similar. So channel partners are typically, like, the sales people that work with the sales people to sell to the other stuff. Yeah, Yeah.

I don't know.

You were saying about the woman share to the. The Facebook groups.

Yeah, just. Just share it. Like, and honestly, that is easier. Sharing it to strangers that you don't know is easier than sharing it to, like, on your personal profile. Right. You know, that's how I made a lot of, like, my first contacts in business is that I would go to Facebook groups and talk about, like, just tell stories about, like, how much I hated my job and how much they were taking advantage of me and stuff like that. And I, like, made, like, a lot of good points, met a lot of good people. And I mean, yes, like, be careful, because there will be a lot of, like, bleaches in your DMs, like, trying to twist that into, like, work with me. Like, I'm the answer or whatever. So, you know, be careful of that. But, like, just do it. You know, just start the. Start the conversation and don't be a weenie. Yeah.

So to that point, I find, you know, there's the. This is an active problem in my life share that will get those leeches. And then there's also, like, I just want to share of my story of where I come from and, like, stuff just like, you are in this. Like, know that there's a way out.

Yeah.

And know that, you know, I got through it. If I got through it, you can get through.

Right. Right.

That puts it into, like, a more separate thing. So if those leeches do show up, like, they can't. Like, it's a weird ask for them to say, work with me, because it's obvious they'll show up.

They'll show up. They'll show up no matter what.

It really depends on how you frame it.

It. Yeah.

You know, and how well they read it.

Right.

But anyway, from Justin. He's been to Thailand, Australia, and Tijuana, and he was not prepared for Vegas.

Damn.

Meredith, we're almost at time. Thank you so, so much for being here.

Yes.

All right, for everyone, who's first, who's to tuned in? I can't speak today. Rohit and Justin and Javi and LinkedIn user whose name is not showing up. And everyone who showed up and wasn't in the comments. Thank you for being here, I hope.

Thank you, Justin. It was nice meeting you.

I felt like we should have probably just brought Justin to the live. Anyway, I'm Katie McManus, business strategist and money mindset coach. This is Meredith Adams from Cactus Girl Media. Thank you all for joining us, and we will see you all soon.

All right. Bye. Have fun.