Recession coming, now what?

I can taste yo, yo, yo I.

Can taste yo, yo, yo I can.

Taste yo, yo, yo, yo, yo y.

Good morning. I'm Katie McManus, business strategist, Leadership coach, and I obviously had a lot of coffee this morning. I am here today with RE Pierce, who's actually my fractional COO in my business. She also runs rv. I always mess up the. The letters in your company's name.

Rvpa. It's actually my initials. Agency.

Oh, okay. Got it. RVPA Agency. And thank you so much for being here.

Hi. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. And I'm on a vibe after that music. When you said some, like, tunes are gonna play, I was like, okay, cool. It's gonna be boring. I know. Nice vibe.

So that's actually, like, a free song that, like, has no licensing via Canva, and I, like, get it stuck in my head all the time. They'll be walking down the street and be like, I can do yo, yo.

I love it. That's brilliant.

Speaking of words, we have some words about the coming recession.

Yes.

A gross topic. And it's something I want to just, like, say this for everyone. I'm not a fan of scarcity marketing, and so you haven't heard me talk about the recession, because I see a lot of other business coaches out there talking about how the recession's scary and now's the time. Strike while it's hot, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I never want to be perceived as that. So I've kind of shied away from the whole topic altogether. But, you know, RE and I work very closely, and we're talking about what we're doing in my business with the recession coming. And there. There are some things that I think are really important for people to hear right now to kind of take that fear away.

Absolutely. I agree as well. I think it's important to say, like, it's okay to talk about scary things as well. Yeah, it's a good thing. It's a nice thing. And I think for both of us, you know, there's no hidden agenda with this. It's more just for exactly getting that, getting our thoughts out there, and also hopefully helping someone in sort of combating their own personal feelings around it as well.

Totally. I'm very popular all of a sudden. I'm getting texts galore when there was someone watching the live and just a little housekeeping. We are going live to the Facebooks, to LinkedIn, to YouTube and Twitter. Even though I don't really have any followers on Twitter, but sometimes not all the comments come through to us. So we love this to be interactive. If you have any questions, pop them in the chat. But if we do pop something in the chat and we don't, like, put it on screen or talk to you about it, we're not ignoring you. We're not mad. It's just the technology sometimes doesn't work quite as we want it to. But anyway, so back into this recession that's coming. So we've gone through a couple recessions in our lifetimes. You know, the 2008, the pandemic, and here we are going into basically our third one in our living memory. Right. And, you know, some data that was really helpful for me when the pandemic hit was that the coaches. The coaches and consultants who doubled down on their marketing, who doubled down on serving clients during the 08 recession actually came out that much stronger.

Agreed.

Right. And it's just they. They just kept being of service. They kept. They kept at their work. They kept supporting people. Because we want to think about this is one of the most stressful things that humans will go through in our lifetime.

Absolutely. I think, like, perseverance during this time is really important also, especially in this industry where we're so attached with our brand, like, being that shining light throughout this space, that person that's always there, that sticks with people. And so, as you said, you come out the other side a lot stronger.

Yeah, 100. And it's not just being there for people. You don't have to be inspirational the whole time. You can be freaked out the whole time. You can. But you being there and saying, hey, listen, like, this is my take on this.

Absolutely. Just showing up, just showing up, being there, showing up for yourself, showing up, however that looks, showing up for your clients. Again, as I said at the start of the conversation, like, talking about scary things, amazing thing to do, and doing that throughout the whole time, I think is something that's really important as well, because everyone's in this position too.

Yeah, yeah. There's, you know, there's this dichotomy of, like, failure and success that a lot of new business owners have in their minds. And it's like, okay, cool. Well, if I started a business, it has to be successful overnight, and if I have to go and get another job, then that's a failure. And I just want to remind everyone who's watching, like, if you're starting a new business and the money's not consistent yet, you're still a human with bills. To pay. You're still a human whose body needs food and shelter and water and, you know, some comforts. There is absolutely no shame in you going and getting a part time job or a full time job to float you during this time. But don't give up on the business.

Absolutely. As well. I think like, think about the weight that that could lift off your shoulders to push your business further forward. If you're not then worrying about the finances and then you can just pour love into it rather than poor money worry and bills to pay and all that sort of stuff into the work you're doing.

Oh yeah. Well, because when you pour the money worry into it, you settle for jobs and clients that are not your ideal. They're just like, oh, thank God, I have some money coming in. And let me tell you, anytime you're in that headspace, run in the opposite direction. Those are not the clients for you.

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.

So if you were to break down a couple things that you're seeing businesses doubling down on, what are you seeing right now?

Really heavy on communication. So with their clients, with their people about how they're approaching things is one really major thing. But then also the rhyme and reason behind what they're doing and also their feelings behind it, how they came to the decision. So not just now we are doing this, but really talking about what led them there with the hope of empowering people, with the hope of also opening the like those doors into what's going on in their business. So that I think there becomes this barrier when everyone's living in uncertain times between okay, what's real, what's fake, what should I follow, what's going on, what's just social media. And so I think right now I'm seeing all of my clients and myself included, really making sure that they're sharing the whole picture of truth outwardly in their market. Marketing and then with clients as well.

Yeah, no 100% that well. And that transparency, a, it builds trust, you know, and transparency about things that also don't work, you know, oh, we tried this and here's how it didn't work for us. It could work for other people who have these different circumstances.

Yeah.

But here's why we don't use this strategy anymore.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean there is no one size fits all. I know the Internet loves to tell us differently, but. No, absolutely. I love the, the openness now to learn from each other's mistake in this online space as well. I think that that's growing. I think it definitely More used to be like again, that picture perfect method of how we show up and that should be how it is all the time. But that transparency is so important especially for the long term success and growth.

Yeah, no, 100%. One of the things that I'm seeing a lot of business owners doing, and we're doing it ourselves in, in my business is offering smaller programs or offering digital products like those smaller ticket items that can support people and be kind of that stop gap if they're like afraid of really investing a lot of money and working with you where they get to experience kind of working with you in a smaller way.

Absolutely. I think it's becoming more and more important as well as there is more things on offer and I don't believe in this but more saturated market to be able to get people into your world as a taste test, as you say, and then show them what that could be like. So definitely across board, even myself, I've never really had any lower ticket ways of working with me and I've recently introduced one which is very exciting. But it's again, it's that allowing people into your world with, with less of a barrier.

Right, right. Yeah, no, well, less of a barrier and also like giving them that one step that is going to help propel them for forward.

Yeah.

You know, so they not only get to see like, oh, this is what it would be like to work with Re or Katie, but like, oh wow, what they told me to do actually does help.

Yeah.

Actually does move the needle. Okay, great. Now I'm in a position where I can go back and get more support.

Absolutely. Yeah, definitely seeing that across board. And then as well, I actually have noticed a lot of people doubling down on education in their offers as well. So as you said digital products, but a lot of teaching in those rather than the coaching side, which I found really, really interesting. I think definitely at the beginning of the pandemic as well, there was that double down on education and expanding your knowledge as we went into that really uncertain time. So it's interesting to see that repeat itself.

Yeah. You know, I have a theory behind this and it's that when we're in a, an environment where the world is constantly telling us like it's scarce, like there's going to be threats to our safety, all these things we grab for, things that'll help us survive and we almost start hoarding them. Right. So but what's like we're in the information age, so I mean like, I'm sorry, like I'm not grabbing for Spears. I'm not grabbing for, like, elk skins, you know, What I'm grabbing for is information and skills and abilities that'll help me survive the next. The next year or so.

Well, I'm glad to hear that you're not hoarding tins of meat at your house.

My carpet's too small. I have too much, like, too many dog treats in there to have anything.

I mean, we have a farm of 600 or 700 cattle, so I think we're good for the minute. So I guess in some ways I am hoarding. Not in the cans yet, though, but.

No, no, no, no.

Baby steps.

Yeah, baby steps. You'll get there. No, and I think it's so important to remember also that everything that we're hearing in the news, everything about, like, prices rising and people getting laid off and people, you know, having to move out of their homes because they can't afford it, all that stuff affects us as empathetic creatures on a deeper level than we give it credit for.

Absolutely.

You know, we hear that there's scarcity out in the world and we immediately get kicked into survival mode for ourselves, even if that's not our own personal story.

Yeah, for sure. I can definitely relate to that. I have a. A childhood friend who has a brick and mortar business and it's like his absolute passion project. And they've recently, they've not shut down, but they've had to make some really, really big adjustments because in the UK we've got a really big energy crisis. Yeah. That's fallen on from the recession as well. So the soon to be recession. And so I actually had to take a step back because I was feeling feelings off the back of learning about that and what they were doing and really just was. Had to like, not internalize it and sit with myself and be like, I can feel a certain way of this and want to help, but it doesn't mean anything about me and really separate myself from what was going on there whilst also feeling the empathy that I'm so always drawn to go straight to.

Yeah. You know, it's. I'm in this trauma of money course talking about, like, doubling down on education. And there's this great question that we get asked there because it's basically teaching discernment on, like, what are the money practices that I want to use in my life, because it's not a binary. It's not like, this is the good way and this is the bad way and if you don't do this, then you're bad with money. Right. But there's this question that I find so useful and it's whose shame is this that I'm carrying around and whose feelings are these? Whose fear is this? Like, because we are empathetic. Right. Unless you're a sociopath. I don't think I attract many sociopaths to watch my, my stuff. If you're a sociopath, sign off now. We don't want you here. But, but like really like you're gonna take on all the feelings of all your loved ones and like that's not helpful to them. No, no it's not. Well it doesn't do them any good for you to take on their emotions as well. Right. Because you're not going to then be good support to them. You're also going to be kicked into the survival mode. So you checking in with yourself and just being like okay cool, I'm feeling like this fear and this anxiety and whose fear and anxiety is this? Does it actually belong to me?

I think that's such a valuable resource that you've learned in this. Well I know from speaking with you that there's been quite a few of those light bulb moments.

Yeah.

But I love, thank you for sharing that with me. That's really, really helpful especially during this time. Yeah. During this live.

I know. Well I think this is also good for people who do jobs and work like we do where we're supporting other people in their businesses and you know our, our clients can be massively stressed out and afraid and like on the edge of like am I doing the right thing? And in our support of them we can take on that emotion but we also get to like set up a boundary there.

Absolutely. As you said in aid of supporting them.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Yeah.

If we're giving advice, advice from like a survival only place. No, not, not helpful. I had a question. Where did it go? I, it was really good one too. I don't know. I lost, I lost it. It'll come back. So what are you personally focusing on in your business with the recession looming.

Tightening everything up? To be honest, we've been taking a really big internal focus on efficiency being a big one where we can implement things that are going to be time saving or doing the work without us doing the work. So looking at automations or built in systems to the way we operate day to day that alleviate us from actually like that push, pull. Yeah internally. And so that's something that's been a really, really big focus for us. I think we've always taken a big focus on like client experience and all that sort of stuff, as you should. But now it's feeling even more important. We're looking at how we can make that more unique to us as a brand too. And really just like setting stronger and stronger roots in what we've built the last few years, like nailing that message in even harder so that we can come out the other side stronger. We're definitely not, you know, pulling back whatsoever, which feels really, really good because when, when the business was started mid pandemic, we weren't pulling back. We were pushing forward very, very strong, and we came out the other side very well. But there was a lot of, a lot more uncertainty looming than there is now for us, which is a nice place to be in, a very fortunate place to be in. And so it's really nice to be able to look internally, to secure those routes rather than looking outwards to, to gain a different perspective or gain more eyes, all those sorts of things. So isn't.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I know that I personally could speak on your behalf of a few of the things that you're doing, but, like, I'd love to open up the floor to what you're doing as well.

Well, you know, so this last year has been like a foundation building year, really. It's, it's putting the right people in place and sometimes occasionally the wrong person. And because, you know, here's the thing, like, you know, you can build a business to half a million dollars or a million dollars a year, but if you don't have the systems in place to maintain that, it's not going to be sustainable and you're not actually going to support your clients in the best way possible. So the things for me that I needed to kind of get off my plate and find the right people to support me are like social media organizing. You know, it's really easy for. I love LinkedIn and I have a really hard time like, finding inspiration and being consistent on other platforms. And if I want to grow my business bigger, then I have to kind of outsource that bit, you know, so finding the right people there, having your team build up all the. How do I refer to it? All the structures that I'm going to be able to deliver to my clients through. If you're watching and you're not aware of this. So we've just transferred, transitioned most of our things into mighty networks. Because one of the things that I realized in my business that I so enjoy is creating that community. Right.

I was actually just about to reference this when you're talking about LinkedIn, it's like, yeah, we love the connection and the community, and that's why it's so easy over there for you.

Oh, 100. It's like making actual honesty friends.

Yeah.

You know, and. And basically going to a cocktail party every day, but minus the alcohol and without having to put shoes on, you know, sometimes not even a bra. It's great. But really, like, creating systems where I get to have that community and really serve that community in a way that's efficient for me.

Yeah, for sure. There's something that we like to say in our business, and it was a term coined at the beginning of the year that I've really held close to me is structure that feels freedom. Like, that's our mission. Structure that fuels freedom. Because I think structure can be looked at as putting yourself in a box. But actually that structure can really push you so much further forward if you do it right.

Yeah, Yeah. I think hand in hand with that, the term that I wrote down during this conversation is really energetic efficiency.

Yeah.

Right. Because here's the thing, like, we can absolutely go and post every single day, but if, like, our vibe is low, what's that post going to do? It's just going to trans translate a low vibe. Yeah. You know, so. And what makes your vibe low? Like, does it. Is it doing all the things that you hate doing in your business? Does that suck your soul out of your face? Then don't do that. Like, outsource that to someone else when you can't. When you can afford it.

Yeah, absolutely. I think there's. There's this narrative that I have seen more and more and more, and I do agree with. But I think a lot of people are scared of their operations in their business.

Yeah.

And a lot of it is because they don't know what they don't know. Right. And what I like. There's a huge message that I want to put across is focus on the things that you do know. Take lessons from this knowledge that you do have of, you know, what you're currently doing, what's working, what you really hate, what drains you, and focus on those areas first rather than. Well, I don't. I don't know what it is that I could maybe be doing. Just look at what you are doing and how you could be doing it better, basically. Totally.

Well. And. And along with that, I think people are afraid of what they don't know because they have this image in their mind that they should be able to do it perfectly Right. Which is absolutely insane when you don't know what you're doing in the first place. Right. Like, it's. So when I used to teach knitting, it was so funny because I, I. So I taught knitting one and knitting two. So knitting one. We would literally teach knit and purl, and then everyone would make a hat. And I swear to God, every single damn class, everyone would be like, oh, my God, this hat's gonna be great. I'm so excited. Look at this yarn. It's so beautiful. I'm gonna gift this to someone and I'd be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow down, slow down. Because here's the thing. If you, if you're making your very first thing and you're thinking, I have to give this, this to someone. It has to be perfect. Or maybe I could sell it like a million dollars. It's gonna be the best hat in the world. It sets the bar too high, and you're gonna have too much stress when you actually make a mistake, and you're gonna be too freaked out to try to fix it.

Yeah.

So giving yourself some, some freedom and some bandwidth, that this is, like the fuck up hat. This is the hat that, like, no one's gonna see. You don't have to show it to anyone if you don't want to. You don't even have to wear it. You know, second hat, you can have that be a gift. Your third hat, your fourth hat. Buy your sixth hat. Yeah, sell those suckers. Right? But, like, this is, this is the practice hat. Like, let's. Let's rein it back in. This is the practice hat. You're not giving it away. And no, like, you're not gonna knit a sweater next. That's not how this goes. You're gonna do something slightly more complicated, but not on that level. And, but people do this in their business all the time. They're like, oh, my God, Well, I have to set this up and it has to be perfect right now. They don't realize that they get to iterate. It's like helping my clients set up their LinkedIn about section. They're like, it has to be perfect. It's like, no, you're gonna change it a million times.

I think it's important to note that, like, that's the same as every single thing in your business. Like, it should shift and grow with you, and it's important to just get something out there. Making ups in business is something that should be celebrated because that means we're evolving and moving forward, and that's really exciting. And I. When you were talking about the knitting thing. I have a very vivid memory of, like, doing a similar sort of thing, not with knitting, but creating something and taking it home to my parents when I was really, really young and being like, isn't this just absolutely the most amazing, best thing in the world? And then they're like, yeah, it's great. And seeing it a few years later and being like, what on earth was I doing? Why did I think that was so good? And that's happened many times in my business now. And rather than, like, I've even spoken to people that are, like, we, you know, delete old Instagram posts if they're not in the same brand and things like that. But it's really nice to have record of the iterations of the growth that you've experienced throughout your business, because you wouldn't have had that growth if you didn't just do something in the first place.

Right, right. Well, you know what's coming to mind as you're talking about this is that the only person who has any expectation of perfection is you. Right? The only person, like, your parents didn't have any expectations that what you're going to create is perfect. Your hands don't have that expectation unless you tell it, like, promise perfection all the time. Yeah, right.

Again, this is why communication is so key, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I have it. I have it in. In my agreement. I have it when we talk. When I talk to my clients and we design how we're going to work together. Like, hey, we're both humans. We're both gonna. This up there. There's gonna be mistakes all around, and that's where the learning happens, you know? And as business owners, you get to build that in. You get to build in, hey, like, if I do make a mistake, here's how we're gonna clean it up.

Which I think is a beautiful thing. It's like, it's. It's. Again, it's not something that should be shied away from or, God forbid, ignored again. It's something that you get to acknowledge and move past with the hope of evolving beyond that, which is only good.

Totally. Yeah. Well, and I mean, I mean, you've seen this, like, if there's ever a mistake done in. In my business, it's, like, cool this happened. What are we going to do to make sure it doesn't happen again in the future? Or how are we going to get closer to preventing this in the future? Because, you know, it. Sometimes mistakes are inevitable. Like a misdemeanor.

We bloody well had one Yesterday. And it's just is what it is.

It is what it is.

It just is what it is. But yeah, as you said, the important part is then moving forward from that and actually setting something in stone to keep progressing. Totally.

Yeah.

And I think relating that back to new business owners and new systems and all this new fandangled things and getting like caught up in like what could be like the most perfect version of it ever.

Yeah.

You're only slowing yourself down and in fact slowing that growth down. Like the journey to getting to that perfect stage is going to be a lot harder for you and a lot slower by doing that.

Yep. Yeah. Well, and I think it's really important for new business owners specifically as we're heading into a recession, because their businesses are not the only ones impacted. The bigger businesses that are selling to them are also impacted. And so there's going to be a lot of messaging, a lot of commercials, a lot of ads coming their way telling them that there's only one way to do it and that one way is by using this thing and you better buy it. And so like be ready for that because once you're ready for that, you can have this discernment of cool. Kajabi's trying to sell to me and thinkific's trying to sell to me and they're telling me that they're the solution to my problems. Great. Maybe I should sign up for that. When you don't even have a digital course to sell. You know, you're not even at the point of doing a digital course because you're still building up your one on one coaching clients. Or maybe you've just launched your very first group and this is kind of like a beta test. You don't know if the content's going to be like what you should put into a digital course. You know, it's really like, like don't let that, that fomo, that FOMO marketing get to you because those, those products are always going to be there. They're not going away.

Yeah.

You have an option to, to opt into them and buy them and, and play with them later.

Yeah. Something that came up when you were speaking about that is actually another thing that I've noticed myself, you, my clients and a lot of my peers as well focusing on at this time is a lot of inner work, a lot of self reflection, a lot of learning how to lead themselves better and really be more in touch with their emotions and navigate their nervous system during this time. So, and I think that that's really, I think well, it comes with being an entrepreneur. It comes with being a business owner and leveling up. I think there's always that type of work to be done, even not as an entrepreneur, let's be honest. There's always inner work that you can do. But it's been really interesting watching people now doubling down and also being more conscious with the way that they're leading themselves and the way that they show up for themselves, not in their business, not for their clients, but just for themselves, literally.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, anytime you. You're brave and you're putting yourself out there, it's an open invitation for all your shadow work to come out.

Yeah.

Like, all the work, all the trauma that you've had throughout your life, like, it's gonna rear its ugly head and say, hey, like, you should probably. On me right now, because if you don't, I'm gonna go and. With your business.

Absolutely. I wish.

I wish it was like, a really conscious choice for me to be like, you know, I want to go inward. I want to, like, work for myself. But no, it wasn't. It was just like, oh, my God, this is going to derail my business if I don't deal with this stuff now.

It's like when. When you said derail, I literally picture the cart and it's like one wheels come off the track, and it's like, okay, we need to make sure the other three don't.

And for a business owner who, like, my type is of. Of launching new things is like, set the. The train in motion and then build the track as it's coming, you know, which I'm sure, I know drives your team nuts. You guys are like, Katie, like, stop. Slow down, slow down, slow down.

But, Yeah, but I think, you know, it is. It's really important to check in with yourself nowadays and especially with just so much uncertainty, not to bring politics into it, but our prime minister literally just resigned.

Like, honestly, I saw that this morning, and I thought it was like a prank. I was like, CNN, you're so funny. I was like, but it's not April 1st. What are you talking about? But is that the shortest. Is that the shortest stint for a prime minister ever? Oh, Liz.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's too bad that didn't happen with Trump.

Yeah. And I mean, even our. Our old prime minister would have been fine to happen, too, as well. I know.

So how. What's working next? I'm just curious now, what's happening next? Yeah, like, who's going to be next? Or do you have to have an election?

I think they'll have a internal election.

Okay.

Between the current party.

Okay.

Basically, I think that's what's occurring. I didn't read too much into it this morning. I'm just. I've literally. I was speaking to Josh about it, my partner, because every week for the past month or so, I've had an email from my accountant saying the government is doing this next week. No more doing this. That's not happening.

And it's like, oh, my God, I know.

Government, sort it out. So many like, oh, we're going to cut tax. No, we're not. We're rising tax. So much of it. So this feels like. This I want to.

I want to take. Because this is also super useful for business owners right now is like, instead of you having to keep track of this, like, if you're going to outsource anything, outsource, keeping track of what's changing. Because in the US there's a lot, a lot of stuff changing as well, and we're heading towards a midterm election. So, like, there may be more changes coming depending on who wins. Like this. Of everything that you need to be worrying about. Like, have someone else do the thinking on this.

Absolutely.

Right.

Absolutely. I could not agree more. First thing I outsourced in my business was accounting. It's just, I think the best move for pretty much anyone unless you have an accounting background. But yeah, it's a huge weight off and exactly as you said, it's not just there for the actual physical accounting, but it's like the updates and the keeping track of things. Yeah.

Couldn't agree more.

Especially during this time when everything is changing all the time and uncertain and bit of a head. Totally.

Yeah. No one needs you like a business owner doing taxes based on, like 1995 rules and going to jail accidentally for it. Like, that's not helpful to anyone.

No, absolutely not. Or even just the feeling of worrying that you have to do your taxes or the feeling that you have to do all of that stuff. It's just, again, energetic efficiency. Yeah, exactly right term to use there is just making sure that you're putting your energy where's best needed and where it's going to be most profitable for you. Both in finances, time, energy, all of it.

Yeah, yeah, it's. Well, and I always say this to my clients is like, the number one thing that matters for your business is visibility. Right. Number two is. Is serving your clients, but number one is visibility, because your clients are not going to stay with you forever. You need to constantly be visible so that people can like, check you out, like, start building trust with you. Start building that relationship on their end and then eventually become your client. You know, there's that artist boom and bust cycle where the artist, like has a ton of inventory but they're broken. And so then they, they sell all the inventory, but then they have a lot of money, but they don't have anything to sell. So then they have to produce a bunch and like, it runs out and it's just like. No, you don't do that. When, when you get really busy in your business, you don't stop on marketing.

Slow down.

Yeah, don't slow down. Because, like, I'd rather my clients have a wait list of clients that want to work with them, you know, than. Than the alternative.

Absolutely. And I see the same thing as, well, sort of happen with operations. And when we think about when you get booked out and you stop marketing, the same thing is like when you're just starting out and you don't want to focus on your operations or how things are running, you're so busy getting clients, but it's like, use this time to actually build things up for when you do have clients. Use the time of being booked out to build better relationships and get more visible. Repurpose things you've already used. Again, just making sure that everything's working. This is what we're doing internally too, is making sure that we're using our time as best as possible.

Right? Yeah.

And that's a lot of inward work too. Yeah.

Well, I think also, you know, a really important thing here is blocking off time off, you know, because it's when we're surrounded by fear and scarcity and we're like, oh my God, the world is falling down. I have to keep working at my business. There's a point that you can't, can't keep working at your business like you have. You have to like, recharge and rest and focus on other things.

I actually have a bit of a difference in opinion in that visibility is like the most important thing, I think you are. And looking after yourself in your relationships, at home, in your business, with your time, with your time off, your health.

Yeah.

All of it is just. Should always be at like the front of mind because without you, yes, the business should still be able to happen and things should still be able to run, but that's not always the case. And also, you built this business for a reason. So look after it. Look after yourself.

Yeah, no, 100%. And well, when I. When I say that, I mean, like in the business, like number one thing in the business, you know. But yeah, no, definitely take care of number one. Absolutely. Like, the things I. Like, I sleep nine hours a night. Honestly, every night I sleep nine hours, spend a lot of time outside, eat healthy, not drinking anymore.

I saw that, I was shocked.

Yeah, I know.

You do look brighter for it. I have noticed. I didn't know that it wasn't because of drinking until a few weeks, until a week ago. But you have looked brighter over the past few weeks, like in your face and your cold in the mornings.

Yeah, well, I also. I also started using a retinol serum, so I'll do a live about my skincare routine also.

But yeah, you've been making a conscious effort to look after yourself, which is so, so important.

Yeah, yeah, it's. Well, and it's. I mean, partially it's running a business. It's stressful and so you have to take out the things that cause more stress. And for me, alcohol was a big thing that was like, I'd have a beer and the next day I. Or the next three days, I'd have crippling anxiety. Yeah, like, that's not fun. It's not worth it. Like, no beer is that delicious.

I mean, I bloody hate beer, so. Absolutely not. No, better for me.

For you. Twine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is that delicious for me.

So I mean, fair, fair. I mean, for all of us. For me, it's no longer worth it. And. But like, my way is not everyone's way.

Absolutely. But I think as well, even something that you said to me recently, which I do in my own way, but I liked that you were able to articulate it was this. When you're designing your new capsule wardrobe, it's like, it's a hobby that's outside of business, that's outside of work. It's not a hobby where you're just going out and doing something and there's no outcome. You get to feel like you've achieved something. And it's hard enough where your mind gets taken away from any sort of business stress. Like, you do have to focus, which I think it's really lovely and amazing that you're like, actively going to seek those things. Like, that's just amazing.

Thank you. Yeah. You know, it's really interesting because I bought a book with, you know, with sewing patterns in it, and it's for building a capsule wardrobe. And the first portion of this book is actually doing an audit of your life. So it Literally. And I've never thought of approaching it this way before because you know how people typically, like when they get into sewing is they're like, oh, I want to sew all these fancy dresses because you want to make something really pretty. Right. But what happens, like, you sew it, you maybe wear it once and then it rots in your. In your closet for forever. And it's not like something that you can give to someone else because it's custom made for your body.

Yeah. Right.

So in this, in this book, they have you actually like break down what your week looks like, which for me, it's like dog park, dog park. Sitting on the couch, doing calls, doing this, doing this, like one dinner out. And usually do a casual place. Like, like my wardrobe that I'm building out in my. In my capsule. Sewing has to be very casual and also has to be very durable because my dog is a freaking nut job. So. But it goes into that idea of energetic efficiency.

Yeah.

You know, we, like, we don't have to make it wrong that our lives are casual and requires durability. We get to say, okay, cool, I'm going to design things that are specific towards that.

Absolutely. And yeah, a conscious effort about that. It's really important.

Yeah. Yeah.

I was recently sharing on my Instagram stories that. I don't know. I have never really been one to buy loads of clothes, but somehow I have loads of clothes and, like, I just have way too many. I've, like, really been trying to get rid of things all the time now. Recently.

Yeah.

And I've made this patch with myself. Whereas if I'm gonna buy something, I'm gonna get rid of something at the same time. Like, if I want to bring something in, I have to get rid of something. But there's one thing I can't do that with, and that's pajamas. And I. I will buy pajamas until I'm blue in the bloody face. Pajamas and blankets. Always got a blanket with me. Always. Like, when I'm not in pajamas in my work day, it's like the first thing that I do. Even, like, if we have friends around for dinner, we'll eat and I'll get dressed up to physically eat. I'll finish eating and go and put pajamas on and come back. And that's just like, that's my most comfortable thing. And I'm absolutely fine. Like, I would rather spend money, good money on pajamas than on an outfit that I wear once a year or an outfit that's just for a season.

Yeah.

And so it's again, putting.

I just can't wait to, like, see your Facebook ads. It's like, pajamas, comfy blankets. Pajamas.

Pajamas.

Comfy blankets.

Well, we're getting rid of any pajamas or blankets. We honestly. So we. When we moved into this house after the mid pandemic, basically we'd had all our stuff in storage because we were abroad, and we got everything back out. We didn't really have things like textiles anymore. We got rid of those.

Right.

But we had, like, this blanket box that we used to have in our living room. So we bring that. Brought that back, back out. And I brought, like, two or three blankets to put in there. It literally almost touches the ceiling now. And Josh says that basically I'm not allowed to get rid of any without actually what was. I think basically he said that I'm not allowed to get rid of any without actually only leaving the basket. He's like, you just have to get rid of all of them at once.

Right.

And that is the hardest thing in the world. So what I've started doing is dotting them around the house.

It's like the little kid who, like, doesn't want to eat the food, so they spread it out and they make it look all messy, so it looks like they've eaten, but they've actually just, like, dispersed it across the plate.

Absolutely. Because he was like, no, you just have to get it all over and done with. Keep your favorite three. It just doesn't work. I'm sorry. And also, it's the sort of thing that everyone buys me blankets because they know I love them. Of course.

So there's that emotional attachment to it.

Yeah.

You know what I feel like you need is. I need. You need someone to, like, build you, like, PVC pipe framing so you can have blanket forts, you know, because, like, what you could do is you could do PVC framing, and you. They. You could put, like, little felt things on the edge so it grabs onto the blanket a bit so it doesn't just slide off, you know? And then you could have, like, fort building parties at your house. No. Where everyone gets to build their own little fort.

I was speaking to a friend about it. This. I love this idea more, but I was speaking to a friend about it, and she was like, would you. You just need enough houses where there's going to be three blankets in each, and when you want to see those blankets, you just go and visit them. And I was like, yeah, to be fair. Yeah, to be fair.

I. I think that's. That's also a solution that I would support so long as one of the houses is in Philadelphia. Okay, well, we're coming up on time. What. What is your final message that you want everyone to hear Coming into the recession?

Do scary things. Don't be afraid to be afraid. Which I know is very aligned with your message of being brave and stop being a weenie. But I think in this time, there's enough scary things. Don't let your own fear of the future cripple you for what you can do now to make a difference.

Yeah, ditto. Well, the beautiful thing is that no one's paying attention.

Yeah, exactly.

That's the good news and the bad news. No one's paying attention. So you can do whatever the you want.

I think in business, there's a really important thing to always bring yourself back to of what's the worst that can happen?

Right.

Even if you fuck up and everyone's watching, what's the worst that can happen?

Right? Right, right, Right. Yeah.

You acknowledge it and you move on.

Yep.

Done deal.

Well with that. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you so much for having me. It's always fun to chat with you.

I know, I know. We usually, like, go way over our times for our meetings just because we can't. We have to talk about all the things if anyone wants to get in touch with friends. Re. Re, you're on the LinkedIn and the Instagram and all stuff. And also you can DM me. She works in my business. I know where to find her. Anyway, this is Re Pierce with RVPA Agency. No, rvpa.

That's it. That's it. I mean, it's not that difficult.

I just want to say another word at the end, and it's RVPAA. Yeah. RVPAAAAA. And I'm Katie McManus, business strategist, leadership coach. Thank you for watching. I hope this is super useful. And remember to breathe as we go into this challenging season. The cool thing about seasons is that they don't last. They always change. And we're gonna get through this, and you're gonna be fine, and it's all gonna be great. And if it's not gonna be great, then you can always make it great later. But with that, have a great day, and we'll see you all soon. Bye.