So I Did A Thing S2 E14

Sam. All right, everyone. How are y' all doing? This is. So I did a thing. I Am Chris Hennessy, where we talk about Ben Courier. Yeah, you should stay, bro. I don't know if you're still here or not, but you should definitely stay. Hey, Dan. We talk about all kinds of things. Like, there's absolutely no agenda. Most of the time, we just. I just bring people on that are in my network and we jam for a little bit. My guest Tonight is Katie McManus. She's a business strategist and leadership coach. I was a guest on her live a couple of weeks ago, and it was like, the story is just awesome. It's just an awesome, like, LinkedIn friend love story or something. Because y' all may have seen the post where I talked about, you know, we've been connected for a while, and it was just like, minor or very minimal interaction between us. You know, usually I think I would comment or react if she was posting something about Luna, her dog. And I lost my train of thought because I thought of something else. Anyway, my mind is squirreling right now, y'.

All.

And she reached out one day out of the blue and was like, hey, I love your content. You want to come on live with me? And I was like, yes, I do. So. And she left. Well, there she is. She was gone and she was here. Like, oh, maybe she won't be here. I don't know. So let's just bring Katie out before she leaves again.

I started getting the Circle of Death, and I'm like, oh, no.

Oh, no, no, Not. Not the Circle of Death, please. Not the Circle of Death. Let's say hey to everyone. There's a crap ton of people popping in.

Hi, Christina. Hi, Ben. Hi. Silver Fox talks. I love that.

All right, so I did something really weird.

What'd you do?

That's why my comments jacked up somehow or another. When the notification came across you were live, I clicked on it. So it went from. It went from my LinkedIn event to your LinkedIn event. So I'm steadily commenting. I'm going to. Something's not right anyway, so let's say, hi, DJ is here. What is going on? Dj, she's another live stream producer. Christina is here. Thurston is here on your side.

Hi, Thurston.

Lauren Lefkowitz is here. She reached out to me today. We're gonna have a. We've been connecting for a while too, and she reached out out of the blue and was like, hey, let's. Let's zoom. So we're Gonna. We're gonna meet next week.

Amazing.

I think you know this guy.

Mark and John. Yes, John. Hi.

No, I've got him on the list to be a guest on the show. I actually took my own advice, and instead of putting him on the schedule for two months out of the. Down. The down the road, I put him on the list. Yep. Thank you. DJ Jacob Roy is here. Ben Courier. Mark Shutter. I hope I'm saying your name right, ma'.

Am.

Lisa Marie. We got a lot of folks here, man.

Yeah.

Jenny Gold. What's going on, Jenny? Are you ready? All right. I think we said hi to everybody.

I think so.

So, y', all. I'm pretty stoked. Like, I figured out today how to make animated backgrounds like this. So I'm like, my. That's part of the reason why mine is squirreling is I didn't have time to really mess around with it and try out the different ones. Let me show you the other one I did today, too, just for giggles and grins. Yeah, that one's a little much, though. That's kind of. Yeah.

Yeah. I feel like we're in the end.

Yeah, no, it likes a little while.

I need to get one with, like, dancing weenies in the background.

Like, oh, I can make. I'll look. I'll look and see if I can do that. That would be funny. Nailed it. Thanks.

It might be a little distracting, though.

It might be a little distracting with dancing, actually.

One weenie, like, goes rogue and starts doing crazy moves. Like a dance off between them all.

Yeah, right. So when my mind scrolled out a minute ago, really what it was was, like, I commented on some of your posts, like, with Luna, and then one that stuck out just because it was so off the wall for LinkedIn when you had breast reduction surgery. And I was like, yeah, if she's gonna post this, like, I gotta comment on it. Like, she's got huevos or cheros that are huge to be doing that. She had boobs that were huge, but now they're not. I don't know. Whatever it is, I'm commenting.

What's funny was that day, I like, you know, and I never. I don't have these days very often, but you know how you post something and, like, no one comments on it?

Yeah.

And I actually, you know. And you know Leah Turner, like, she's a friend of mine. So I messaged her and, like, oh, my God, like, what happened? I got no engage engagement. She's like. And then I came up with this one right after, and I think there was a lag between when she saw my message and she went and saw my post, she's like, oh, well, you mentioned nipples. And I was like, oh, no, that's not the post I was talking about. I deleted. And that post, like, I got so much engagement. I got a lot of people. I actually got a lot of women reaching out to me, asking me to talk about breast reduction and if I recommend it. And, you know.

My first thought whenever I saw that was asking. Yeah. Let me say what Dan. Let me highlight Dan real quick. You're right. I'm big timing now because I got for Katie freaking McManus. You were absolutely right. Yep. Pulling above my weight with this guest. I know. It's kind of one of those. One of those dream moments. Next stops, Leah Turner, y'. All. Did you get any creepers off of that post, though?

No. No one?

That is awesome.

Not one creeper.

Like, you know, some of those dudes see a post like that, it's like a trigger for them to like, oh, she's talking about boobs. I'm going to DM her. You know what I mean?

No, it's.

That is awesome.

Yeah. No, I don't know what energy I put out, but I get very few creepers these days, you know? And I think. I think people kind of get that I'm. I'm no bullshit. And, like, I'll probably call them out if they're addict to me.

Yeah.

So. And I've been very open about. I'll call your boss. I've called people.

Yeah, right.

I. I have actually gotten people fired for being very inappropriate on. On LinkedIn. And I don't mess around, and I think there's just something. Some energy I'm putting out in the world that they don't bother me anymore.

Yeah.

So there you go.

Like that. I know. With the creepers.

Yeah. But, I mean, maybe they were also like, oh, her boobs aren't that big anymore. Okay.

Oh, I don't know how we got. I do know how I got. Got on that, but this conversation went south or north really quick. So this is. So I did a thing. Y' all welcome. Yeah. Feed them to the fishes. Exactly. She kind of has that vibe, right? Like, go to the mattresses. Somebody's gonna wake up with a. A horse head in their sheets.

Philadelphia. It is a top mob.

Yeah, I was gonna say. Yeah, it is, kind of. You are on that eastern seaboard up there where it's. I got a mob story.

Do you?

Yeah, well, sort of. It's not my Story. It's a friend of mine. He's older. He's probably 65. And he is from New York. And he didn't know it until about five years ago, but his grandfather, when they came over from Sicily, he didn't immigrate over here. He came over here to run the family. Oh. And, like, they kept that from him. His dad did not get involved with the family.

Right.

And so they didn't tell the grandkids till they got older and he saw something and they told him about it, and he started researching it, and he was like, oh, my God. My whole family's a bunch of criminals, man. Like, it was rough stuff.

Oh, my God.

The fact that they sheltered that from him was, like, crazy.

Yeah. I mean, how. I guess. I guess I know.

Like, exactly.

You didn't have the Internet back then.

No, no, no. I mean, he's 65, so that would have been like, back in the 50s or. Yeah, in the 50s, when he was born. So. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. They will never die. Leave the gun. Take the cannoli every time.

I've actually never seen the Godfather. I've never seen any of those movies.

I've seen the first two. He actually lent them to me because he knows the guy that wrote the Godfather books. Well.

Yeah.

Yeah, I know. He's connected. So the running joke is like, whenever. Like, he. He's retired and he works, like, part time at Walmart in the sporting goods section, but when he has a problem, the joke is, carl, are you gonna call New York? They need to call. They're going to come down here and handle it. You know what I mean?

We're gonna go on a little tour. Luna has a ball underneath something, and she's gonna keep barking until I fix it. So, Luna, come here.

Dan, that is. That is not. Not far off. It's usually water or a Sprite. Zero, actually.

Oh, God. Knocking things over. She doesn't understand. Okay. All right. Here we go. Back.

Back.

Okay, so. Yeah. So everyone's safe with me. I'm not connected to the mob.

Just. She's not connected to the mob.

Not connected to the mob. I have my own ways that you terrified of. I'm not connected to the mob.

Right. So just get your ass fired. That's all. Don't worry about it. Oh. So let's reset the room. If y' all don't know Katie, I don't know, really. If you're doing LinkedIn. Right. She's all over the place. Her and Luna and the dancing weenie suit and she's all over TikTok now in the dancing weenie suit.

Yeah, it's been so much fun. I'm just. I'm just now delving into it and I'm having a blast.

Are you?

It is so much fun. It's so creative and, like, I kind of love acting. Even. Even just lip syncing acting is just. I don't know, I think it's hysterical and there are so many talented people there. Yeah, it's just. It's mind blowing what people can do.

Are you getting any leads off of it yet?

So I just started a few weeks ago, literally just started. And I'm working with this new marketing agency out of la. They're the Alpha Collective agency or creative agency. They're amazing and they've been guiding me through it.

Okay.

Yeah. So it's brand new.

Yes.

But my whole philosophy is like, find one social media platform in your first year, hit it home with that. I've been on LinkedIn for about two years now. Been playing with Instagram since about May of last year. So now I'm branching out a little bit further.

Okay.

Yeah.

And just like, this is something cool too. Like, this is what got you. What sold you on switching from Stream Yard to Restream is we're live on eight different channels right now.

I know. This is so cool. Streamyard, you can't do this.

Katie has five channels she's live on right now.

Right.

And I've got three.

Right, right.

And so for any of y' all that are thinking about getting into streaming, just think about that for a minute. You can. Come on, you can have a guest. And so I get exposure to Katie's network and Katie gets exposure to my network because of that paired feature.

Yeah, that's so cool.

Yeah.

And I have. It's probably like 13,000 people that I'm connected to on my side. All of my. My spots that I'm. I'm streaming to, like, that's. I mean, that's just incredible. And like, the. More.

Yeah, exactly.

And this is how you get introduced to people. And I don't know, I mean, we could probably invite a few more people onto stage and just grow the whole impact.

Yeah, right. You have not crossed the line into TikTok yet. I think, you know, Tanya too, crossed the line into live streaming yet, but I think she's going to.

I think she will too. I hope she's got a lot to say.

A lot, a lot to say. So. Yeah, that's. You're exactly right, Thurston. That was kind of what it was all about. Like I'm not on Tick Tock, but it kind of was, it was girls dancing around kind of like video Instagram, more or less. You know, girls dance around in bikinis and people doing stupid stuff and rednecks are us.

I am not dancing around in a bikini. I'm far from it. I'm dancing around a weenie costume.

But there are a lot like people are seeing the potential for it and there are a lot of legit businesses on there now doing Tik toks, getting and getting leads hand over fist.

Do you know who's doing TikToks for LinkedIn? You know, she's an actress. Did you ever watch that movie 10 Things I Hate about you?

Yeah, I loved it.

So you know Bianca's best friend who at the very beginning she has that whole conversation of like, I know you can be overwhelmed and I know you can be underwhelmed, but can you ever just be whelmed?

Vaguely, yeah.

So that her best friend, she's like a grown up now. She was in a pantsuit and she had short hair and she's middle aged and she's doing these TikToks for LinkedIn and it's really just blew my mind. I'm like, I know her. Where do I know her from? I felt like I went to high school with her. But yeah, we did go to high.

School with her to high school together. Because that was a movie of your movie of your childhood right there.

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah. What?

No, I was gonna say. So tell us a little bit about what you do and your approach to what you do.

Yeah, so I do business strategy and coaching, which is a very broad term for I get on the phone with a small business owner usually who does a service based business like consulting, coaching, law services, copywriting, and basically figure out what's their fastest path to cash. How can we get money coming in the door as soon as possible, and how do you build that consistent income without killing yourself in a lot of different areas? So it's finding a really elegant, simple marketing plan. It's designing a really compelling offer that's easy to understand, to explain and to understand, and coming up with really simple, like payment processing systems and that's. And then that's it. And then a lot of the rest of the stuff is like the panic attacks that my clients have and talking them off the edge when they're freaking out about like their success and little failures and all the things.

Yeah, yeah. And yeah, you do a really good Job, like, the simplifying it, like, was really an eye opener for me because I was sitting here when I started this live streaming production thing thinking that I was gonna have, you know, like a main package and then like all this a la carte stuff to add to it and maybe mix and match and.

Yeah.

So I got it down to two.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, three, counting the training package to. Yeah.

And it's. And I.

Production packages.

It's so tempting to want to give everyone all the options because you feel like you're being of service, right? You feel like you're giving them choices. But here's the thing I told this to you on when we talked on the phone is a confused buyer never buys. And the best way to confuse someone is to have them do math, right? And if you're giving them an a la carte menu, you're having them do a ton of math. And also they're not an expert in this. They don't necessarily know what on the menu is relevant to them.

Right.

And then they feel dumb. They're like, okay, well I gotta go. I'm gonna go think about this. And then they never, they never call you back.

Luna, show up. Is DJ on Twitch? She's on Twitch. That's why those are, those are Labradoodle. If you, you can probably see it over there on the right.

If you click on the chat, I can. Luna, you want to be on tv? Come on.

This is a vegetable eating dog, y'. All. I don't know if y' all saw her video last week. The dog eats broccoli and zucchini. Like carrots or something like raw, like carrots.

She likes zucchini and broccoli and cauliflower. If I'm meal prepping and doing all the things, she'll sit there and bark at me until I give her something. Really love a full on temper tantrum. And so like as, as I'm chopping it up, I give her the raw bits and she like kind of collects them on the cat on the carpet. And then I, I'll cook them. And as I'm cooking them and they're not available to beg for, she'll eat through the raw stuff. Luna, stop barking at me. And then once everything's out of the oven, then she, you know, gets her her cook stuff. I actually cook vegetables for her and me for the week.

Really?

So it's part of her, part of her diet? Yeah, we're just, we're just eat clean.

So do you feed her any kind of like pre Packaged dog food or do you do it all?

Yeah, no, I get her kibble, but then I also. I'll cook some chicken for her. She gets. So she gets like 2 ounces of cooked chicken with her kibble and some hot water. Water poured over. So, you know, it's. It's all the flavors are mixed together.

Luna, she knows we're talking about her.

I know, I know.

Dan, I've not ever tried to sell a Chihuahua to Taco Bell.

Chihuahua cheese is actually a thing.

Chihuahua cheese?

Yeah, it's from the. The region of Chihuahua.

Huh. Okay, we're just.

You guys are gonna get a little tour of my house. Here we go. This is our.

Yeah. Because you just. You recently moved, right?

Just recently moved. Yeah.

This is a new town or a new city.

Philadelphia. Luna's just gonna get all the treats tonight. That's upstairs.

She is fancy. I know, right?

So there we go. It's such a mess right now. I was like, trying to find sheepadoodle. She's a sheepadoodle. She's the most spoiled sheepadoodle in seven counties.

So that's part, like sheep dog. The big fuzzy, long haired.

Yeah. So you know, like the cartoon dog. Yeah, it's half that. Half poodle.

Okay.

Yeah. Do you have any dogs? I forgot to ask.

I have four dogs.

You have four dogs?

I do. I have all of them, but one are pit bulls. The other one, the one that's not. He's about £12. He's a little bitty dude. But I have a solid white. She's the only one that's full blood pit. She's solid white. I have a blue brindle. He's blue with, like, tan and black brindle stripes.

I love. I love the blue dogs. They're so.

Yeah, I do too. And he's half English bulldog, half pit bull. So he's short and wide.

Yeah.

You know, he's not very tall, but I bet he weighs.

But he probably has a longer snout, so it's probably easier for him to breathe.

Yep. He's got a longer snout.

Yeah.

And then I have a. He's a pit mix with something. I don't know. He was a stray, right? Yeah. And that's it.

They just run your life.

They do. They really do. They run it. Yeah. And they like, they are so spoiled. It's nuts.

Oh, my God. She owns me. She. She has me so well trained. I mean, I just got up and got her a treat in the middle.

Of a live show.

In the middle of a live show. Usually she doesn't do this. I think she knows that I'm not running it. I'm just a guest. I'm a lowly guess. Oh, man.

Yeah. And, like, I have four, and they're all inside dogs, and I don't even like to think about them dying, but after they're gone, I won't have that many inside dogs again.

I. Yeah, I can imagine.

That was a lot of my ex wife's doing. And I ended up with all the dogs, which is great because they grew up out there on our property and they would have just been heartbroken if.

Right, yeah.

If they. They just split up. But, yeah, I'll never have four inside dogs again. It is ridiculous around the house.

I can imagine. I was watching my friend's Hound for a weekend and my house cleaner was like, oh, my God. I had like, this is the vacuum afterwards. And thank God Luna doesn't shed. I don't know how you handle it.

Lots of vacuuming.

Yeah.

And I don't have carpet, so that's good. It's all like vinyl linoleum.

Yep.

So it vacuums up real easy. But, yeah, vacuum. And that's what I said. And they've grown up inside, so I can't just boot them outside now, you know? Yeah, yeah. They don't show emotes. I don't know what's up with that. It's crazy. It shows up. Whatever. So on Twitch, you can do the emotes, which are different than emojis, and it just. That's what. That's what it comes up as. Like the name of the.

Emote.

Emotes. Yeah.

Oh, my God. So I was texting with a client today, and he has an Android and I have an iPhone. Right. And so on. IPhone. Do you have an iPhone, Chris?

I do.

Okay. So you know how if someone texts you, you can kind of hold down and then you get a choice of reactions. And there's the heart, there's a thumbs up, there's a thumbs down, there's the exclamation, exclamation points, and then there's the ha. So I always, you know, if it's not something that I need to respond to right away, I want them to know that I saw it. I think the thumbs up is kind of passive aggressive, so I always just do the heart. And normally he used to tell me that, like, whenever I did that, it would say, Katie McManus has hearted your message or has liked your message. But it writes it out and puts it in parentheses.

Right? It does, yeah.

So it doesn't anymore, but they changed it. They changed it to David. They changed it to the happy face that has, like, the heart eyes, which, like, I don't use that. I think that comes across as flirty and, like, Android is going to create some really weir miscommunications, because I can just imagine, like, a boss and a subordinate are, like, messaging each other, and someone thinks they're hoarding a message, and what they're doing is they're doing the googly ads, and then this other person's gonna be like, oh, my God, they love. They love me. Maybe. Maybe something's gonna happen.

Yeah, I know, right? Your client that's been secretly crushing on you for a minute is gonna be like, it's happening. It's happening.

He was so excited that he finally thought he was getting the. The emoji that I was doing, and I'm like, that's not the one that I was doing. So I took a screenshot of the ones that I have the options for because he doesn't have an iPhone.

Yeah.

He didn't even know what. What I was. What my options were.

Yeah. It's so weird. Like, I don't even if I know somebody's got an Android, I don't even react to it.

Right.

Because it just comes across. It's like, what's the point? Chris Hennessy liked whatever. So, yeah, I don't know.

Your opinion matters.

It does matter. So, yeah. Some more emotes. Brain Slug.

Oh, my gosh.

So you have a. You have an interesting story that you get around at in a post last week.

Which one? In my poster. In my life last week.

Oh, no, it was. It was on. Your life. It was on. Yeah.

Well, it was funny. I was. I. You know, I had John Spears on my live.

It was on. Yep.

And we're both coaches, and one of the things that the coaching industry really pushes is personal responsibility, so responsibility for how relationships go and for, you know, how everything goes in your life. And I'm all for it. Like, we're all personally responsible. And also a big blind spot in the coaching world is that there are actual harmful humans out there, you know, who. You know, you assume that absolutely everyone out there is out with good intentions. And I use the example that I don't talk about this often just because it's not relevant to my work, but I actually dated a con man. I obviously didn't know he was a con man when I started dating him, but. And I want to preface this, like, I. I so appreciate the people Who've like, gone through this themselves and are like, want to share. So I'll share a couple things here, but my only ask for the audience is that if you're hearing this, please don't send me all the details of your experience with a con person because you never know what's going to be triggering for someone. I think we, speaking of personal responsibility, we all have to be responsible for, for sharing our trauma in really thoughtful ways.

And just. Yeah. And just so to preface that, I did ask Katie before the show, like, no, is this a triggering thing? Like, do we not need to bring this up?

Yeah, so. So, yeah, so I was with this man for about five years or five years, five months is enough to cause enough damage. Like, literally had to escape him in the middle of the night with my best friend's help. And you know, he told me, and this is, you know, hindsight's 20 20, you know, that his ex wife was crazy and all this stuff. And, and he had a very compelling story. They had, he had convinced a lot of their mutual friends that she was also crazy. So they were kind of backing up his story in a way that only a con man can, can come, can do, can orchestrate. And after a couple months, like, people started pinging me, like, does, does this guy, his name is Justin. Does Justin owe you money? And I was like, yeah, he does. And I was like, does he owe you money? And they're like, yeah, he does. And he had racked up hundreds of thousands of dollars on people's credit cards, drained some of some people's bank accounts. You know, he was a former financial advisor for Morgan Stanley. So like, and he got fired from Morgan Stanley, but no one knew that. So he was just basically like saying, oh, well, I can save you money on your taxes or I can do this or whatever, like, let me see your papers. And so people would just give it to him. And he was very charming, he was British, you know, just had everything, you know, it just was very charming. You know, you just got everyone to be his friend and all that stuff. So I actually reached out to his ex wife and we started comparing notes and it was insane. I actually downloaded my whole texting history with him and sent it to her to like, so that during. Because they were still in the process of their divorce when he and I started dating and they had a custody battle and I ended up actually testifying. I gave like a 34 page document of all this evidence that he, you know, is emotionally mentally abusive of him, treating his kids poorly. You Know, alcohol use, some evidence that he was using, like, cocaine and stuff, all the things. And so she ended up getting full custody of the kids, and he actually had to flee the U.S. wow. And, yeah, it was insane. I. I actually ended up coordinating a lot of his friends, former friends, because, you know, he screwed them all over, and I'm now friends with them. We. We check with each other every so often, you know, I mean, that kind.

Of transcends the whole jealousy X thing.

Like, realize jealousy at that point, it was just like, oh, my God, this person's really dangerous.

Right, right. Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's. It's not.

Yeah, no, it was the whole.

It's like, oh, I never was like, nobody's really an ex because you weren't really dating.

Right. And I say this as someone, like, I'm friends with a lot of my ex boyfriends.

Yeah.

You know, we'll hop on the phone and talk for an hour. You know, hopefully anyone I date is, like, okay with that. But, you know, I'm not the kind of person who has. Who's ever been jealous of, like, them going on and having a great life after we're not together anymore. This one guy, he was just absolutely insane. Yeah, he. God, I'm trying to think. It was funny. So I had to get a restraining order against him once I supplied some information to his ex wife because he was pretty dangerous. Right. And so I went to court with her to. To represent, you know, with her divorce, and she actually served him my. My restraining order papers, which for her, she escaped with her life. That was like the most empowering moment for her. Incredible.

That's crazy. That's a Lifetime movie.

Yeah. I mean, it actually. So one of his former friends writes for a Lifetime, and he actually did make a movie out of this situation. He had to change the gender roles because Lifetime likes to the. The lead person to be a woman. So the Lifetime movie, I forget the name of it, but the. The main character is a woman and she's a con woman, but the story is the exact same.

That's crazy.

I haven't watched it, though, because I know it.

Also.

I don't want to see what the guy version of me is like.

You know, Betty had smaller boobs than you.

Yeah, he did have. Yep. If someone were to make a movie about your life, what would they make it about?

Holy crap, man.

Or the overall arc of your life? You know, Would it be a moment? What would it be?

It would. I mean, cop turned drug addict, felon inmate is a. Would make a pretty interesting.

I didn't realize you're a cop before all that.

Was a cop before? Yeah.

Oh, my God.

Yeah. I played for both. I like to tell everybody I played for both teams. So I get like. I kind of have a unique insight into being a felon. Mm. Because I'm not quite so bitter at the criminal justice system. Maybe because I knew I had it coming, but also because I see the struggles of understaffed and not. No funding and no training and all that kind of stuff.

Right.

So I've lived both sides of it. I played for the. I was in law enforcement for three years, and then I was doing drugs and messing up for probably three years after that. Two years, two and a half years after that.

Were you still working enforcement, or did you leave?

No, I left. Yeah. I got in trouble, and they arrested me one day when I showed up for work.

Oh, my God.

Yeah. Did the whole call me in the office, give me your badge and gun, like that whole spiel.

But they arrested you on top of it?

Yeah, and they arrested me. Took me to jail. Yeah. It was. It was a little nuts.

Oh, my God. Yeah. That's the movie that I would watch, too.

Yeah.

Now, when. If you don't mind me asking, when you. When you're incarcerated, where you. Did you feel safe or did you feel targeted by other inmates because you were a former cop?

So they put. When I got to the intake unit, I had to write out a statement and sign it. I had to go to the safe prisons office. Every prison unit has a safe prisons coordinator. I had to go to the safe prison's office or the safe prison officer's office, write out a statement, say, I wasn't in fear of my life. I don't want to be in protective custody. Otherwise, they'd have just put me in a. In a single cell, and I'd have done my time sitting there by myself.

Yeah.

And I knew I did not want to do that. That would have been a miserable, miserable, long. It just. I knew I didn't want.

So.

But because I was an ex cop, they put me on a unit that was considered like a PC unit. They had a lot of ex cops, ex TDC guards, ex lawyers, judges, a lot of ex gang members. So tdc, the Texas Department of Criminal justice, has a program so if you get confirmed as a gang member, they automatically put you in segment.

Okay.

You can go through a process to get out of sick. It's called grad gang renouncement and disassociation.

Okay.

It's a long process. You're under investigation for like a year before you can ever go to the program. When you get out of the. It's a nine month program. When you get out of it, they put you on an easygoing unit for, you know, two or three or four years, let everything cool down, make sure, you know, nobody's got a head out on you and you're not getting your ass whooped every day for, for leaving or whatever.

Right.

So it's just a really. And you would think with a bunch of ex gang members on the unit, you know, because some of them are faking to get out, you know, to get out of sick. But you think with a bunch of X gang members it'd be kind of rowdy, but it's really not because most of them don't want to go back to say.

Right.

Some of them have been back there for 10 or 15 years, man. Like, you know, just. So it was a super chill, super laid back unit. Like there was a bunch of old guys there, like old, probably in their 70s and 80s, wheelchairs, walkers, canes. Like, it was a really chill unit. Like, I was not scared at all.

That's so good.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I mean, hopefully no one is ever in a situation. I mean, I know this isn't the truth, but like.

Right.

If you don't have the power to control your safety, like, hopefully it's a safe environment nonetheless.

Yeah. And they've, they've done a lot to improve that. You know, it's. It can still be rough, but they've done a lot to improve it over the past 10 or 15 years. It really kicked off with Priya, the Prison Rape Elimination Act. It actually took place in Texas, but it went nationwide.

Right.

I'm. A guy named Ruiz was getting raped all the time and beat up and, and all that kind of stuff. And he sued the state of Texas because they had him in an unsafe environment and he won. So that forever changed the laws regarding safe prisons in nationwide.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, there's still people getting raped, there's still people getting beat up, but it's not anywhere near what it was pre 2000, probably.

Right. Thank God.

Yeah, I know. Like it. You know, you hear horror stories, guys have been locked up for 30 or 40 years of what it was like back in the 70s, and you're just like 70s, 80s, and up into the 90s, it was just like, oh my God.

Yeah. I just, I don't understand as, as a developed nation how we can be so irresponsible with lives, no matter what someone's done.

I agree. Like, you know, they're there. Like, everybody thinks that in pre, you know, prison shouldn't be comfortable. I'm not saying you should have, you know, a purple mattress and, you know, all the luxuries and everything, but losing your freedom is the punishment.

Yeah.

Not making just as miserable as possible while you're there. Now, there still should be a level of decency. You know what I mean? Clean quarters, decent food, which is not, you know, the food's crazy. But anyway, losing your freedom is a punishment, not let's make it miserable and you sleep on the floor and, you know, you're covered in roaches and, you know, all that kind of craziness feeding slot. Like, you know, that's not the. That's not the punishment.

No. And. And what does that do for rehabilitation?

Absolutely nothing.

Like, if you're hoping. If you're hoping for that person to be able to get out and be a functioning member of society and to be able to contribute and to feel at all secure and staying out of prison, there has to be some kind of program that they can put themselves through and. And keep them intellectually stimulated and have some. Some semblance of relationships and support.

Yeah, exactly. And there are programs you can go through. You know, there's. You can go to college, you can go to trade school, which, you know, I'm. I'm not a huge proponent that a degree is necessary for what you want to do in life.

Me neither.

But you could always tell the guys that were in college, in prison, like, it is an amazing thing for those guys because it teaches them to think and it kind of shifts the way they start looking at things just because of the routine of it, having to do the work. So in that aspect, like, I'm a big proponent of college in prison because it gives you something to do for one thing that's productive. And we've turned this into an ending the stigma show, which is, okay, wrong show for this, but that's all right. But yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. 100, you know, and you can go to trade school if you don't want to college, you can go to trade school, learn a trade for when you get out.

Yeah.

There's even a program where if you. You're exactly right. You never know what's going to happen. So I did a thing. Yeah, it's a really cool program where if you've got a lot of time, like, you have to have at least 10 years before you're eligible for parole to go through this program. But they send you. It's on one unit they send you to. It's the Darrington unit, Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary comes in, and free of charge, you get. I don't remember what the degree is in, but you get a full four year bachelor's degree for free from an accredited school. And when you get done, they send you to other units to be basically. They call them field ministers, but you're basically working for the chaplain, helping him do whatever he needs to do. Doctor. Yeah. So they. They give you a free degree, and then you go to a unit and you have a job that actually is meaningful.

Right.

Not, you know, throwing food on a plate.

Right.

You know what I mean? So that's a really cool program they have. There are. There are some cool programs, but it's just you got to volunteer for them. They don't make you. And you got to stay out of trouble to be able to do it.

Right.

And if you're on a rock and roll unit, sometimes that's hard to do.

I can imagine. Yeah.

So, yeah, anyway.

Yeah, so I would totally watch that movie. Just back to.

Oh, man. DJ is all about ending the stigmas and breaking stigmas. Yeah, she would totally watch it. Netflix, right?

We've gone from food reduction to.

Yeah.

Where should we go next, guys? What do you want to hear about?

Hey, Emil.

Emo.

Emo. Not Emil Emo. My bad, dude. He was a guest on Ending the Stigma two weeks ago. Something like that. Two weeks ago. Two weeks ago. So, yeah, what else did we say we were going to talk about? Business coaching, moving to a new city. What's that been like for you?

Well, thank God I have a dog. You know, the dog park has honestly been where I've made all my friends okay. You know, and it's just. So my move was really weird because I gave up my apartment in San Francisco in August 2019 to travel for a year and wrong year to do it. So, like, Bob's around the world for. For six months, and then come March, I just happened to be visiting my parents on Cape Cod, and then the world shut down. So then I was just, you know, in my 30s, living with my parents for years.

Yay. Nothing says successful business coach, like.

But it was actually, like, the best gift in the world. My parents and I are really close, and they do drive me nuts. Like, every. Everyone.

Everybody's parents. Yeah.

But we have a great relationship, and so we didn't murder each Other like they're. They're still walking around. They're not buried in the background yard or anything. But it was cool because, well, moving anywhere in the pandemic, I was going to move to a new city regardless. And then what do you do? You're not allowed to be with anyone or talk to anyone and, you know.

Yeah.

Everything shut down. Just. I. I just saw that as like a recipe for depression, so.

Yeah, I can imagine. So you moved from the west coast to the East Coast.

Yeah. So.

So did you grow up on the west coast or did you just end up there?

I was born, like, near Berkeley in California.

Okay.

When I was 12, we moved to COD. And then when I was 22, I moved back to San Francisco.

Okay.

And then I, you know, when I was.

Okay. So you.

You're kind of a. I'm bi. Coastal. Yeah.

Okay.

Let's just go with that. Yeah.

Okay.

And my plan now is, like, I'll probably spend a couple months in the summer in San Francisco just because I hate the heat. I'm just like the wicked witch of the west with. With hot weather. Just can't do it.

Get hot up there.

Yeah. So this is the crazy thing with global warming. Cape Cod used to be like a very moderate, like 75 degrees in the summer and breezy and like, you'd want to bring a sweater to the beach. Now it's like consistently high 80s, super humid. It's uncomfortably hot, and none of the houses are built with air conditioner.

So you. Now, that sucks. That, like. But you know, those of us. Those of us in Texas, whenever people in the north start talking about, it was 88 today, we're laughing at you.

Oh, totally. We're not used to it.

Yeah, exactly.

Right.

That sucks. So they don't build them with air conditioner. I was talking to Alex Hall. You know Alex.

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't have air conditioner over there either.

Oh, no.

And so we're like, bro, like, what do we have to do to take up a collection and get you all a window unit at least to put in the bedroom, man. To send you a window unit. Like, you can't get them over there apparently or something. I don't know.

Yeah, I think. Well, I mean, that's a completely different story, you know? Yeah, whatever. But I know it's just. I think it's just expensive and I think people have gotten away with not having them for so long, especially the older generation. They don't want to spend more on the electric bill.

Yeah.

For it. So.

Yeah. Yeah. Please let my electric bill go up in the summer because I keep the AC going.

Well, Philadelphia is supposed to get really hot in the summer, so I'm very happy I have central ac, but this is literally the first place I've ever lived in my life that has central ac.

Really?

Literally. I've never lived anywhere that had central ac because I've never lived somewhere where it's typical to need it.

It's not needed in San Francisco.

Oh, no, no, you have. You have maybe like four hot days a year in San Francisco.

Huh.

And they all happen in the fall. Like, the summer is not. Is not a warm season.

Huh?

Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah, it's my favorite. It's like boots and a scarf weather year round. It's amazing.

Yeah, I could dig that. Like, my ideal temp during the day is like 60s during the day and 40s at night. Like, if I could live somewhere like that, I'd be happy.

No, I'm with you. If you find that spot, we'll go, we'll get a couple next to each other, our dog play in the yard. It'll be great. We'll be neighbor.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I have a. Have a gate between the yards where in the afternoons we can just open it and they can run back and forth.

Although Luna will probably teach your dogs her ways of manipulation. You don't want.

Like, my dogs are smart. Yeah. Jacksonville, Texas, not Florida. He can. This has been courier. He connected with me and everybody and this. That's how Will Schmear and I connected too. He saw Jacksonville in my profile and didn't see the TX, TX next to it. He's like, hey, bro, I'm from Jacksonville too. And I was like, I think you got the wrong Jacksonville, but nice to meet you.

I actually didn't know there was a Jacksonville in Texas until I met you.

Yeah, most people don't. It's a very small town, like 15, 000 people.

Yeah, that's biggest.

It's the biggest town in the county. The town I grew up in, 11 miles south of here, has 5,000 people.

Now, where in Texas is it?

East Texas. Two hours southeast of Dallas.

Okay.

And two and a half hours almost due west of Shreveport, Louisiana.

Ah, okay. Got it. Okay. Because I've driven cross country through Texas before, but I think we went through Houston and then up to Austin, and then we headed up to Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico.

Okay. I was actually born in Houston.

Oh, no kidding. I went to the Whole Foods there. It was fabulous. This is. This is what blew My mind. You go into the Whole Foods and you can get a glass of wine or a beer, and you can drink it while you go grocery shopping.

Yes.

That blew my mind coming from a blue state.

Oh, yeah.

In Massachusetts, like, it used to be, you couldn't even buy booze on a Sunday.

Yeah.

You can't order a beverage, an alcoholic beverage in a restaurant until afternoon on Sundays.

Yeah. And I think it's still that way here.

Right.

But you cannot, like, don't mess around and try and go to the beer store on. You can buy beer and wine, but you can't buy liquor on a Sunday. Or you may not. Yeah. I think you can buy. I don't even know. Hello. I'm pro. It's been so long since I'm trying to buy.

Yeah.

Alcohol. I do know all the liquor stores are closed on Sunday, so I think it's. You can't buy liquor for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. It's. I mean, every state is so weird.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, California was the most liberal when it comes to buying anything.

Yes.

Like, anything.

Yeah. California. Yeah. Texas is like, yeah, I hit the bootlegger and those were around, too. Yeah. Like, this county just became wet while I was in prison. Like, it wasn't even. It was a dry county. Yeah. We had to leave the county on the county line. On this side of the county line, there was like four or five beer and liquor stores that somehow they got zoned where they could sell it, but other than that, you had to go 30 miles to get any beer. It was nice.

I mean, I'm not saying it's good or bad. It's just crazy.

Yeah, I know. Yeah.

Yeah. I think other countries look at us and like, why. Why do you make all these rules? Oh, my gosh. So funny.

It did. It became a wet county. There's so many connotations to that. I'm just gonna leave that one alone.

Leave it right there.

I'm not gonna touch that one. So have you made any new friends? Like, anybody you talk to on a semi regular basis other than at the dog park? Like, you go grab coffee with them or something.

It's funny. I was at the dog park in November right after I, like, signed my lease and had decided this is where I'm gonna be, and was making friends with Ralph's mom and Hank's mom. And it turns out Ralph's mom is leadership coach named Jessica. And as soon as that came out of her mouth, I'm like, no kidding. I'm a leadership coach. And then this, you know, Hank's mom comes up, she's like, excuse me, guys. My name is also Jessica and I'm also a leadership coach. The dog park that has all leadership coaches. But now it's. No, just like when you moved into.

The right neighborhood then.

I did, I did. My neighborhood is so nice. Like one of my neighbors, her son just turned 4 years old and all he wanted for his birthday because, you know, he doesn't really have any friends because they've been quarantining because his older brother has some health issues. All he wanted for his birthday, it was February and he wanted to go trick or treating. So she organized the whole neighborhood.

She posted that. It wasn't you that posted it.

Yeah, she dropped little cards in everyone's mail slots. Just saying, you know, if you're willing and able, like text me. This is my phone number, you know, and we'll coordinate a time to come by and it was so sweet. They're just the nicest family.

That is fun.

That's basically my whole neighborhood.

That's awesome.

Yeah, yeah. No, I left out. I. I found like the best spot. I'm a few blocks from the Italian market, which, I mean, it's just like, it's a year round farmers market.

Oh, wow.

All these amazing little like delis and butchers and, and fish markets and it's.

See, I could get behind someplace like that.

Yeah. Yeah.

You have like good meat, good vegetables.

Yeah.

Kind of stuff.

Oh, and it's. They've all been there for like a hundred years. Yeah, it's fabulous. Yeah. So I'm really happy. And then it's. It's also like an easy drive to see my family. Not too easy. I'm not going there all the time. I get to go to New York like once a month and down to D.C. and.

Yeah.

And once the world gets back to normal, I'll be heading off to Europe a few times a year too, so.

Hell yeah. That's goals right there.

Yeah, I know.

I'm hungry too. All I had was some snacks before, but I am eating good when I get home. I had a friend, I have a friend that works for the Waffle House, she's a recruiter for them and she sent me a bag of the Waffle House waffle mix and so it is good. Yes, yes, you can actually. The best place to. I just got that. Yeah, I'm gonna leave that one right there with dj. Yeah, I know, right? Exactly. That's what I was thinking. Dj, like that is definitely. We need to get if emo's gonna be popping stuff like that. He needs to be on Twitch for sure. That's where that lives.

Oh my God.

Hey, it's Nathan. Nathan is my co host for Ending the Stigma. We co hosted together.

Yeah, I feel like I infringe on your territory. I'm sorry.

No, it's good. Yeah, Nathan, I know, right? Yeah, he just, he shows up every once in a while. Like you gotta. I gave him hell about it all the time because last year when he didn't have a job, he was all over LinkedIn. He got a job and he bought a house and he's been remodeling it and. Yeah, so he's like non existent on LinkedIn anymore. Every once in a while he pops in with a smart ass comment like that though. Just enough to remind you that he pops in for ending the stigma and then he gives a smart ass comment somewhere every once in a while. Yeah, it's all good, emo. It's all good.

Well, I have to say, you know, LinkedIn was probably the reason I stayed sane during the pandemic and during the lockdowns. It just created this beautiful community of humans that I actually like created real honest to goodness friendships with.

Yeah.

That social outlet that I wasn't getting from anywhere else. You know, because like you go to Facebook and it's just fear mongering and people fighting over stuff and it just, you know, LinkedIn just had that like that, you know, it. I get the people who are like, it's not Facebook, but there's like this, this elevated sense of talking about things where it's not about opinions, it's more about observations and more about feelings.

Yeah. Yeah. I've made some of my best friends in the world right here. Yeah, like we talk offline.

Yeah.

You know, and like Nathan's one of them. You know, we talk off like. Well, we Talk in the LinkedIn DMS. But I mean still outside of a post or whatever, you know, we have zoom parties. Like Amy and I host a zoom party once a week where people just drop in and we hang out and talk and BS and all that kind of stuff.

Why haven't I been invited?

I make a post every Tuesday afternoon. It's at five central so it would be six your time.

Okay, I think I can do that.

As a matter of fact, I will, I will DM you. I'm just gonna make sure the link to sign up. Yeah, Zoom link emailed to you.

Okay, thank you. I'm free tomorrow, so I want to do is make a big Deal. And then be like, oh, I can't come. Never mind.

Yeah, I know, right? So this is really bad. A couple weeks ago, we did not have it because Amy was out of town and I had a crap ton of stuff going on. I could have done it, but I was like, look, let's just skip today. She was like, all right. So I didn't do a post. We have a friend and, yeah, Chris is already sliding her dms. We have a. I have a friend in India who we zoomed three or four weeks ago. When I told her about it, she was like, oh, my God, I don't want to do that. That's going to be so much fun. But, you know, she's like ten hours ahead of us. Ten and a half hours. She was like, I'm gonna set my alarm. I'm gonna get up. I'm gonna hang out with y'. All. Well, she did a post and was like, thankfully she overslept or went back to sleep and didn't do it. But she made a post being how sad she was that she missed it because she overslept. And I was just like, oh. And I was like, I didn't even tell her we canceled it because I was like.

She'S gonna watch this, right?

Maybe not, because it is. Well, it's 6:00 o' clock in the morning there. 6:30 or something.

You just outed yourself, Chris.

I did just out myself. So we are coming up on an hour, so let's do a little bit of promo real quick. Who do I have Wednesday at 7 Central for ending the stigma? My pastor, Randy Sparks will be on. My pastor has been to prison four different times. He was a drug dealer in Houston for years and years and years. He got saved the last time he was in prison. So he's going to come on and tell a little bit of his story. And he's actually like. He's not real tech savvy. So he was like, chris, like, can I just come to your office and sit in one of the offices and do it? So he's going to be sitting right over there looking at me on the show. So that'll be funny. And then this is like the month for coaches, right? So next. Next week, I have Rosalind Krieger. She is a coach, and. I don't remember what kind, y', all, right. Off the top of my head, I usually should have had it pulled up. The week after that is Jacob Roy. He's a business coach, too, in California. He was on here earlier. So they just kind of Worked out that three out of four weeks, our coaches this month. And actually you were. You were supposed to be next month, and then tonight canceled. So I was like, hey, Yeah.

I mean, I'm always. Do you know how, like, Tina Fey always ended up on the. On the late night show because she just lives down the street? They'd be like, More than happy to be your Tina.

Yeah, right. I usually have, like, there's a handful of people I can call and be like, hey. And it hadn't happened very often that I guess canceled or something. And I've been like, yo, I need somebody, like, now. Can you come on and talk about something?

Yeah, you just need cash.

Need a cash coach. That's kind of what a business strategist coach is, right?

Yeah. Well, you know, a business strategist and coach so, like, they can work on relationship with money, which I think is what you're talking about. Because, like, if you have a bad relationship with money, there's no way money's coming to you.

Right.

That's just it. You need. You need to do the work to fix that relationship with money, and then you can have success in your business.

What do you define as a bad relationship with money?

You're constantly stressed out about what's in your bank account. You freak out about spending. You splurge without realizing if you know that fits within your budget. You make a lot of impulsive purchases. You abuse credit cards, not use credit cards. Credit cards aren't necessarily evil, but you abuse them. And you're like, you don't have a plan to retire at some point. Like, you don't have that stuff set up. And it in like you're. You're being avoidant about setting it up. That's. That's where the bad relationship with money comes from. Also, a bad relationship with money can come up. Like, if you have, like, random. That goes wrong all the time. You know, like your car dies and then your water heater blows and then this happens and that happens. And you're never set up for it. Yeah, you get a little.

Yeah, I'm only three years clean. My relationship with money is not buying drugs. And that's a damn good thing to be proud of.

That's a win. That's a win. Yeah.

Yeah. I am learning on my, Like, I am building my relationship with money.

Yeah.

And I can't blame it all on my ex wife. My ex wife liked things that we didn't have the money for, so we.

Yeah.

Our credit cards up.

Right.

Well.

And relationship with money is not Necessarily your credit score. Right, Right. It's not necessarily the same thing, so. Yeah.

Yep. A hundred percent. Darren saved him thousands. He's got five and a half years clean.

Oh, God. Yeah. I can imagine. Expensive.

It does get expensive.

Yeah.

For real?

Yeah.

Well, cool. Okay. I don't. I still don't. Yeah. I still don't know what we talked about tonight.

We bounced all over the place.

We did bounce all over the place, but that's kind of like. That's kind of the beauty of live stream streaming. Right. Like, we kind of talked about that as a network building tool whenever I taught it or spoke at your training. Like, you don't always have to have a set topic to talk about something. Yeah. DJ and Darren are like, tight. Like white on rice.

And Lauren, you checked your bank account.

Exactly.

Nathan. Oh, you're. But you're remodeling your house.

Yeah, exactly. Set up straight to Lowe's. But, yeah, that's what we were talking about at the training is it doesn't always have to have a set topic. You can use it to build your network.

Right.

Didn't always have to be topical. You just have fun and hang out.

Yeah. Well, thank you. And I was, like, so excited for this because normally my lives are very structured and I'm talking about one thing. It's just me or I'm interviewing someone about what they're up to. And so this is so much fun.

Yeah. She's on Twitch, Darren. That's where she's at right now. She is on Twitch. And that's kind of how I've envisioned this going is like, I know we talk a little bit about coaching, but then I figured we just shoot the and that'd be it. You know what I mean? We just have fun and hang out.

I love this. Thank you for having me.

Yeah. I appreciate you coming on. All right, guys.

Money. Thank you.

Yeah, he had to soften that with those lol. Make sure you knew he was kidding.

I'm from New England. I understand sarcasm. Yeah, right.

Yeah, I know. Like, Darren, I don't do anything on my Twitch. Like, I do absolutely nothing to push it. It's there because LinkedIn mobile sucks. So if somebody wants to go over to Twitch and watch it or YouTube, they can. So. Yeah. Thanks, DJ. I appreciate you coming by and supporting. Thank you. Everybody that showed up. So this is like, crazy. We started off the show, we had a lot of people here. It take all the way down where I had Nobody watching on LinkedIn on my side. Everybody was coming in on your side and now it's back up to where it was whenever we left, whenever we started. So I don't know if they really left or if LinkedIn was glitching or whatever.

Yeah. LinkedIn never gives me accurate reporting at all.

And we talked about that like so for those of you all that don't. I know we're going over a little bit but for those of you that don't know, like there's an eyeball on my dashboard that tells how many people are watching. It says two. I know I've got two people on Twitch and at least three people on LinkedIn because they're commenting. But LinkedIn says I have seven people watching.

Right.

So like and then I've gotten my Restream analytics at the end of every stream and I'm like I know I had more people than that because they were commenting.

Right? Yeah. On. On stream yard. Because I haven't really delved into Restream totally yet. Is like they'll say 000 and then yeah. Have like 10 people in the comments.

Yeah.

It's not correct.

And I think it really like I need. I should have looked at my analytics. I did a test stream on Friday with Julie. I was testing something. What was I testing? Oh, I'm going to be a guest on Julie's show tomorrow. Oh yeah. I forgot to mention that I'm gonna be a guest on Julie's show tomorrow at 7 Central for Joyful Julie Live. She's gonna put me in the hot seat and ask me all the questions. So what I was testing out was I was going to be a guest on her show but I also produce her show so. Or I'm training her to produce. I produce it but I mean while I'm doing it, I'm training her.

Right.

So I joined her team on Restream. Another cool feature. As a producer you don't even have to have a password to your clients account. So just you join their team. But I wanted to make sure I could pair my accounts and not sign in with the guest link but be in under her team. Right.

Right.

So I'd be not even in my account anymore. I'm in. I'm in her account account. So I did that. Went into her account, started the stream and it was still broadcasting to my channels because it had already paired them.

That's crazy.

Yeah. So like that I thought we were going to be on for 10 minutes. We sat there and chilled. People were dropping in and out. Chelsea Ver Vet Verrette joined us on stage.

Yeah.

We chilled for an hour and a half, just shooting the breeze, having fun. Yeah, it was so cool. I don't remember where I was going with that story. Oh, streaming to just LinkedIn. We were just LinkedIn.

Drinking non alcoholic beverages.

Yeah. I promise I'm not drinking. Yeah. So I didn't even think about trying to match those numbers up. But I think when you pair your channels like it messes restream up because it doesn't ever give you. Yeah. I don't know. Or whenever you do more. When you. When multi stream. When you stream to more than one channel, I think it messes it up.

Yeah. It just can't do the math. All the people that join us, they can't. It can't do the math.

Yeah. All the people that joins that can't do the math. Yeah. Yep. Twitch. Yep. That's a twitch comment for sure. Katie started drinking. All right, I'm really going this time, y'. All. See y' all tomorrow night on Julie's show, Joyful Julie live Wednesday night for ending the stigma. Katie, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you, Chris.

We will see you all next time.