221 (Lead) Cloning Your Top Reps by Identifying What Good Looks Like (Kevin "KD" Dorsey)

Foreign. Everybody and welcome to this leadership episode of 30 Minutes to President's Club. My name is Armand Farooq and I'm here with my co host Nick Sigelski. And today I think it's like round five or six and there's a reason for it because it is the one and only KD Kevin Dorsey, a multiple time sales leader of world class organizations who has the baddest breakdowns in sales. Nick, why should people listen?

If you're watching on YouTube, I've been wiggling the whole intro and there's a reason for that. Kevin talks about the importance of documenting what good looks like, AKA wiggle. But he goes further. He talks about once you've documented what great what good looks like, how you actually affect change in your sales organization. And then he gave me a really big paradigm shift about looking forward forward versus looking back from a sales leadership perspective that I think you should listen to. And I think if you wiggle along the way you'll get some extra exercise.

During this episode and mid interview, look out for the hat change and a three, two, one. Let's ride. Today's show is brought to you by Outreach, which helps you increase seller productivity, coach calls more precisely and forecast more accurately using a platform powered by AI agents. If you're running a tape review, you're going to stop at three different points. Number one, when the prospect monologues ask your reps what did we pull out that was important? From there, ask your reps what should we say or ask next? And then click Play and recap what did the rep do versus what we thought they should do? Our friends at outreach built a 30 mpc resource hub where you can grab this play and an unreasonable amount more.

Links in the Show Notes Today's show is brought to you by Insightly. The CRM helps you spot deal risk early so Pipe reviews actually drive. Your number one question I ask in nearly every deal review is what do we need to get in our next interaction with a customer? If my rep can't answer that question, the deal has risk and I have something I can coach to now. We built a guide with our friends at Insightly CRM on how to run pipe reviews that surface real risk and get deals moving again. And you can get it for free at the link in the Show Notes.

Today's show is brought to you by Text us which helps you move your deals forward faster. When timing matters, the fastest way to move a field forward is to avoid getting stuck in the inbox. And so my favorite way to get On a text basis is literally when your prospect requests a demo, just send them a confirmation text saying that you're looking forward to the meeting, and that opens the text channel for you to call back on it later. Folks, we put an entire guide on how to revive ghosted deals, Nudge next steps and use texting to keep deals moving forward. With text us. Check it out. It's free in the show notes. Hey, folks, if you keep getting grilled in your pipeline reviews, try this show up with your deal risks already flagged. So gaps in pain, timeline or power, and your next move ready to. That's kind of where Clari helps is they will show you live signals and risks on your deals in one clean view so you can run your business, not have your manager do it for you and poke a bunch of holes. So we put together a free guide on three plays to get your sales manager off your back. The link is in the show notes. Go check it out. All right, Katie, welcome to the show. We start every show with your top three actionable takeaways. Let's get your three.

Hey, top three takeaways. First one, Be obsessed with the wiggle. Be obsessed with the wiggle. And no, I'm not talking about a dance move. The wiggle W G L stands for what good looks like. You need to be obsessed with it, but you need to get it out of your head and down on paper so people actually know.

Boom. What's number two?

Number two is to study greatness. So there's a quote from a book by Sean Achor, the happiness advantage that has stuck with me forever, where he said, we have become with the cult of the average. We cater to the average. What's the average? Close rate. What's the average? Acv. What's the average? Quota? Tame. And then we cater to the average. If you want to elevate a team, you actually need to study greatness. So once I identify who's the best at something on my team, we got, like, almost like 17 different things I'm looking for to see if I can diagnose greatness, because that's actually how I can elevate an entire team. So leaders spend as much time studying greatness as as you do what's broken. And you'll be shocked at how quickly you can change your team.

Two great takeaways. Give me number three.

Number three is then once you know the wiggle and you've studied greatness, how do you scale it? Four Ds of scale. Once I know the wiggle, I gotta define it, document it, demonstrate it, and deliberately practice it. We talked about practice a lot on my last episode. Now we're getting to the other layer of this. But define document, demonstrate deliberately practice. It's one of the biggest differences, I think, if people step into my orgs compared to other orgs is you could step in and you know what good looks like for disco and you know what good looks like for follow up, because I've followed the four Ds and that's what allows me to scale it. So that's my biggest third takeaway here.

Kevin, I want to ask you about what you're actually looking for when it comes to the wiggle.

So of course there's prioritization, right? Not everything is equal in life, but if I believe something is impactful, we need to define what good looks like. If you as a sales leader believe how your reps are dressed on a call impacts the outcome of that call, then as minute as that sounds, you actually should have what good looks like defined by that, right? So to me, there's almost nothing too small that needs to be defined of what good looks like. But of course, I'm going in order of importance. It also is not static that once we've defined what good looks like, that doesn't mean that's always what good looks like, right? We are coming back to these things often to update them.

One common mistake I see managers making when documenting the Wiggle is it becomes a collection of tips. So, for example, folks will say, the key to a good discovery call, you have to sell value. Here are some of my favorite questions. Set an agenda, maybe some next steps. And it's a spattering of seven different things that are popping around in their head. What are some best practices for documenting the wiggle in a way that reps can best digest it?

So when it comes to the wiggle, it needs to be proven, not preference. And too often, that's what tips are. This is my preference, this is how I like to do it. But if I can't prove that is impactful, if I can't prove that's what has worked in the past, that doesn't belong in the wiggle, right? So it's if we use disco, for example, there are certain things that we know if we do or do not do in discovery will impact our ability to run that deal like we know it. If I do not get them to agree to a problem in discovery, I know for a fact that's going to impact my ability to close that deal. So that's what you're looking at for the Wiggle is like, if I take this away, do I feel with full certainty this will have a negative impact on my ability to close or on my ability to book? But also, too, this is part of our job as leaders, is to define what good looks like. Because the tips. If the difference between a tip and a tactic is the expectation of usage, a tip is, hey, try this. A tactic is we do this. Okay? I care about the tactics of discovery, of the demo, of the follow up of multi threading. There are certain tactics we know are best practice. That's what the wiggle should be. Tips sit on top of it. Personality, style. Sit on top of it. Right? The analogy I give with the Wiggle or with scripts is like, wiggle's the recipe. So if I. If I'm making a pizza, there's certain things that go into that recipe. I need dough, I need sauce, I need cheese. If I take the cheese away, it's no longer pizza. If I take the dough away, it's no longer pizza. The recipe has ingredients now. Shoot. Nick wants some pineapple and jalapeno on there. God bless you. Right, Armand. You want pesto sauce, I want barbecue chicken. Let's go. But the moment you take away the cheese, it's no longer a pizza. You can't remove the recipe. That's what the wiggle is for me with this wiggle.

When we're documenting what good looks like, there's two types of information. There is the tactics, the stuff that is necessary, a necessary component to have a successful discovery call, cold call, management of the pipeline, et cetera. And then there are things that are preferential that don't matter as much. And I'm wondering if you've seen any common things that leaders will include when they're trying to document what good looks like. But it's this stuff doesn't really matter as much.

I'll use one that always gets people riled up, like on cold calling. Filler words are something that managers of the hype on or harp on that don't actually matter as much. You know why? Because we use filler words. That's how we talk to each other. I could never once sit down with a rep and go, you know what, Nick? You would have won that. But you said, like, too much. That is why you lost the deal. So that's one. Another one talk time ratio. This is a big one. I've had top performers talk 70% of the time. I've had top performers talk 50% of the time. It's what you're saying in the time that matters and what you get the customer to say that matters. Cadence and speed. I'm talking pretty fast right now. I could slow down, could bring it here. I could go a little bit more mellow. It's what I'm saying. So there's things like that that more often than not, I see leaders harp on. On things not to do. When the wiggle is about what to. That's one. Or things that are very hard to prove. Mirroring. Mirror the prospect on the demo. Okay. Armand's got his hat on backwards, so I'm going to do that real quick. It's things like that.

Damn.

Two hats backwards. Okay, you know what? Actually, screw y'.

All.

We're gonna have fun with this.

You gotta see this on YouTube, folks.

Next.

Nick just added a third hat to the mix.

Oh, God.

We got a cowboy hat.

Okay.

Yeah, you gotta see that. This is getting real now. It's getting real. So if we look at things where it's like what to do versus what not to do, that's the difference on the wiggle. But also early in my career, I will honestly say I got too detailed. Okay, disco 30 things demo, 30 things. I've narrowed it down. It's 10 to 12 things. What are the 10 things you look for in a deal? There are 10 things that if these are not in place, what deal is at risk? 10 things in Disco. 10 things on the demo, 10 things in targeting. That was also a big learning lesson is I went too far. And so I started to prioritize. Here's all the things versus, like, here's the 10 things that actually matter. That if we don't do nothing else matters. I'll give a very good example for my onboarding for, we'll use SDRs. For example, if I'm onboarding SDRs, guess what doesn't matter if they can't have a good phone conversation.

Uptones.

Uptones don't matter. You know what else doesn't matter? Everything. If they cannot have a good phone conversation, do I need them to know the tech stack? If they can't have a good phone conversation, does it matter if they know how to convert an opportunity? It like, so when we plan, our onboarding is actually structured that way of what matters first. I don't even teach you the tech stack until you've proven you can have a conversation. Then I move to your emails. Then I move to objection handling. Because if you can't have a normal conversation, the objections don't matter. So it's stack ranking these things to what matters, then you move to the next part.

So Katie, whenever you've jumped onto a podcast, you've had a methodical way of breaking things down in steps in chronological order. Let's say that you're teaching your reps how to cold call. I know you actually just released a cold calling course recently. Talk to me about the best way to break down a concept like cold calling so that it makes sense to even the most junior rep.

It actually just follows on what I was just talking about where I'm going in sequence. Sequential warden. Because if I think about the cold call framework, if I don't nail the opener, the permission doesn't matter. And if I don't get the permission, the bucket question doesn't matter. And if I don't get the bucket question, I can't do the gap questions. And if I don't do the gap questions, I can't do them. Might make sense. If I don't do the. Might make sense. I can't get the confirmation. If I don't do the confirmation, I can't do the. By the way, almost everything is sequential. Same with closing. If I don't do disco right, I don't ask good disco. I can't create a pov. If I don't create a pov, I can't justify the roi. If I can't justify the roi, I can't actually connect the dots in the demo. If I don't connect the dots in the demo, I can't ask for buy. And if I didn't get buy in, I can't do the. So for me, it's actually very sequential whether it's the sales process. Whereas the cold call is I'm breaking it down by segment, but I'm also breaking it down by what we're getting the prospect to do in those segments.

So Katie, you have this whole very in depth framework for cold calling, for discovery, other things like that. A lot of this you've found by studying the best reps, the best people at the company. Talk to me about what you're looking for when you're studying greatness.

So first is studying is. Do you know if I walked into many orgs right now, I said, who has the highest close rate? They'd have to go find out. You should know that. You should know it. But I ask leaders all the time, it's hilarious. What's the average close rate? Maybe 50, 60% of leaders know that off the top of their head when I ask them who has the highest close rate crickets every single time, who has the highest closer, who has the highest acv, who has the highest connect, right? Who has the hot. Like they know revenue, they don't know the things behind it, right? So first is just knowing, do you actually know who's the best on your team at the specific metric? Then from there it's diagnosing. Why do they have that highest metric? What is it they do differently? So let's say, Armand, you're my number one for close, right? First and foremost, I'm looking at, all right, what do you say on your disco calls, your demos, your pricing, your closing? So I'm looking at four different key things of what you're saying. Second, I'm looking at what do you get the customer to say? So one of my favorite things to do with like my top is I'm going into your transcripts, but I'm looking at what the customer's saying. What do you get them to say in these calls? So I'm looking at that. In this process, what do your emails look like? What do your proposals look like? Who are you booking with? Is it a certain industry, a certain title, a certain size? Are you getting different types of leads? Are you getting a lot of referrals? Are you getting a lot of inbound, a lot of outbound? How many touches do you make? How far are you scheduling things? Right? How do you run your day? So I'm like, I'm looking at all of these things to diagnose. What is it you do do differently? Because if your close rates 45% in -17%, you're doing something different. But at the same time, that's why some of the things I listed there are so important. Because notice how some of that was also what leads you working, what industries you're doing? Because sometimes who we think are the best are not. They might actually just have a better territory. They're just legit. Might be more ICP fits, they might be getting more inbounds. They may have a referral source that other people don't have. This actually helps me diagnose who's the best. So that's the things I'm looking for is performance. There's going to be some level of behavior that's causing the different performance. So here's my behavior bucket and then here's my I'll say non behavior bucket. The process and what they are working. I don't know if we have time to get into it, but I actually had to fire my number one rep at one of my orgs because of a studying greatness exercise, it was not me trying to find what was wrong, was actually me trying to find what was right. And I couldn't. And that's what let me know something was wrong. Right. So that was an example of studying greatness actually leading to us catching something where this rep was not two times better than everybody else. He was actually cheating the system. We had to let him go.

I want to point out a nuance in the way that Katie's studying greatness here. A lot of times and even before this, we were talking about breaking things down in chronological order. And oftentimes the issue might be a lead targeting issue or a territory issue where the worst reps are targeting the wrong accounts, for example. But when it comes to something like close rate Katie, you honed in on the call first, right away. And the reason for that is you want to be a heat seeking missile for what is the most likely sales activity to drive that metric and then work to other parts of the call. So to your point earlier, if discovery sucks, it doesn't matter if the demo is good, it doesn't matter if they're good at negotiation or not. Right? That's going to tell you a lot. And if discovery sucks, but those deals are still moving forward, that makes you wonder what's happening before that. What's happening before that? Discovery call to make all these prospects the super easy lay down prospects. So try to find for connect rates, for example, you're looking at who they're calling. If you're looking at cold call conversion rates, you're looking at the actual cold calls themselves. Try to identify the lead sales activity that drives that lead metric. Start there and then work around to both sides.

Good story example too. I tell this one often. We had a rep at Patient Pop, Julia who had a ACV that was like 36% higher than everybody else. 36%. So in my orgs we do studying greatness every quarter. So every quarter I assign a metric to a manager. It is your job to go find who the number one is with that metric, tell me what they do differently if you can find it. So every quarter. So when Nick and I were talking about this earlier, this is how the wiggle gets updated because we're constantly reviewing. Right. So Julia had a higher ACV is like I think, I'm pretty sure it's 36% higher than everybody else. I signed it to Jess Strickland, my, one of my directors at the time said, Julie, go tell me. Three days later he comes back, yo, I got it. I got it. She presents pricing as a package. Everyone else is presenting it as line items. This is this. This is how much these costs. Here's your total. She was presenting it as a package. Here's everything you get. Here's what it costs. So what do you think we did with that? Well, we took it, we defined it. Here's what good looks like. We documented it, added it to the scorecard. We demonstrated it, we led trainings. And who do you think led the trainings, by the way? The rep. Julia helped lead these trainings. And then we deliberately practiced it. We brought up ACV by over 18% for the entire org. So did we get it to 30% like Julia? No. 18% increase across 50 reps, y'. All. We're talking about millions of dollars in ACV from a studying greatness exercise and leaders listening. Y' all know this. Who do reps like to learn from more? Their peers or from leadership? You see what I did here? This works because Julia does it. This is how Julia's closing these big deals. Julia, can you help teach us how to do this? Julia, can you help us create the recipe and the what good looks like? This ain't me, y'. All. This is Julia. Peer to peer. So that's the key to studying greatness is it's also coming from the peers. So that's a good example. You can live the whole boat by knowing what the best do differently.

Let's dive into the specific rollout of this as an example, because I think it's a really good example of how you can roll out any metric, improver initiative, or whatever that might be. So you started. And the metric you were looking at was average contract value.

Right?

You started there, and you figured out that Julia had the highest acv. From there, you went into Julia's negotiation calls. Tell me, what were you looking for inside of those calls?

Actually, I want people to catch this. I didn't. Who did? I did. Jess did. This is also like leadership through levels. Jess went in. I simply assigned it. So Jess went in. But what you're listening for is the pattern. What are they doing on these calls? And so to your earlier point, what calls do you think he started with? We're talking about acv. So what calls do you think he starts with? Starts with the biggest deals. But which call in the deal? Because there's multiple calls, which call do you think they're focused on? The proposal call was where he focused first, and that's where he found the difference. What good looked like before was, it'll cost this, it'll cost this, it'll cost this, will waive this. If you get started here, she wasn't doing that at all. There was the difference. It was the pattern. Because more often than not, we actually do know what reps aren't doing well. You don't know what the best are doing well. So it stands out like a sore thumb. Right of. Okay, Damn it. I just let one slip, by the way. That was my first slip up in the last 10 minutes of a filler where now you all can go back and catch it again. I almost made it. The key is there's something different, and you'll notice it. You'll notice it very quickly because it's different. I can guarantee if I listen to some of Yalls calls, there's some. There's something glaringly different, and I'll catch it very quickly. So that's what we're looking for, is the difference in the calls. If they're doing everything the same, then I know it's not the call. Something else is happening in both of.

These stories that you've told. Why wouldn't you, as the leader, just go directly to the rep and be like, yo, what are you doing different?

They don't know. They don't know. They do not know. You ask a top performing rep what they do different, they say the same thing almost every single time. Either I don't know I outwork everybody, or I'm more. I make it more myself. I'm more natural. That's not it. That is not it. Funny enough, most top performers are not working two times harder than everybody else. They're just three times better. This is what frustrates a lot of leaders is they look at their top performer, they're saying, well, Armand doesn't make all the calls, and Nick doesn't do this, that, and the other. It's like, they don't have to. They're better. But I use that same language to my team. Why does Nick not have to make 70 calls? Because he's better than you get better like Nick. You don't have to make as many calls either. But asking a rep, they don't. They very rarely do. They know. Very rarely do they actually know what they're doing differently because they're just in it every single day.

From there, you go to documenting the greatness. So your manager, Jess, figures out whatever Julia was doing in these negotiations. What was she documenting? Are these example talk tracks in a slide deck? Is this something as simple as, hey, when you're presenting price, do this as one sentence. How do you actually make sure that this lives forever?

So it goes into our what good looks like for pricing. So we have one doc that says, here's what good looks like for pricing. And then we take that segment, we add it to our proposal scorecard. So when we're running or scoring calls, we have the scorecard there. And where a lot of people get call scorecards wrong is they use them for review. I use them for prep. The call scorecard is not to just review the calls. It's actually to prep for the call. All right, Armand, you have a proposal call coming up. Let's pull up the scorecard real quick. What are we trying to accomplish on this call? How? It's the prep that is actually the most valuable with the scorecard. It's not the review, because the review is already done. You already done missed the call. It's the prep. So now that goes into our what good looks like on the scorecard for the calls. The rep can review it before the call. The managers. I work so hard to get my managers proactive. Armand, I see you got a disco call on Thursday. Let's get 10 minutes Thursday morning, jump on. We'll go through the scorecard together, prep for it, do a little scenario plan. We'll be good to go. Not, how did that call on Thursday go? You already missed it. So it goes into the scorecard, and then we're just reviewing it on a regular basis.

So I'm having a perspective shift here, because every time I've thought about a scorecard, it's been like, okay, calls done, deals won or lost, and we're looking backwards. And you just changed the way that I thought about this, which is actually, we should be proactive. We should be looking forward. And I have to imagine that was a pretty big change you had to make with your managers to get them from going, all right, let's run your call through a scorecard and see how you did to. Okay, let's take a look at the scorecard before the assignment is due. Talk to me about how you implemented that change with your managers.

Really, the same way you implement any change to the rep to the managers is, first of all, explaining it. It's the wiggle. It's the same idea. What good looks like as a manager is being proactive. But then secondarily, that's my job as the leader, to ask those types of questions. Most leaders are asking reactive questions. How did your team do? How did that call Go. Whereas when we're having our one on ones, my questions are what calls are coming up for your team? When I'm looking at your calendar, we're looking at your calendar moving forward, not moving back. The prep sheets are to get ready for the call, not to review the call. So it just changes the questions the that I'm asking. Isn't that even a better way to lead managers like leading this way. It's more fun, it's more engaging. You're actually getting people ready for something. So the buy in is always minimal. But the last point I'll talk about with all change, sell versus tell. Too often as leaders, we tell people what we want them to do. We don't sell them on what we want them to do. There's that everyone says the your best rep doesn't make your best manager. And everyone gets fired up. They're like, yeah, they're totally different. I'm like, no, they're not. The problem is most great sellers stop selling when they become a manager. They are actually the same skill sets is that most managers and leaders stop selling. They stop applying the same skills that made them a great seller to their people. So you sell people on this and by that you unsell. Hey Armand, how's it feel listening to these calls and hearing things missed after the fact?

Not good.

Is it working? Your reps are scoring these calls. Are they getting better? Are they actually getting better just scoring calls after the fact?

In theory they should be fixing the mistake in the future, right?

Should be. But are they, Are they actually getting better? Do you think scoring calls afterwards is making them better?

I don't think scoring the calls is. I think sitting down and coaching them specifically on certain moments and pausing so it ingrains is.

So when do you think we should coach them? Before or after the call?

Make sure that knowing what you've learned in past calls going into the next call, you don't make the same mistake again.

So did you play sports at all growing up, Armand?

I was a wrestler.

You're a wrestler. Cool. Did you practice before the meet or.

After the nick was a weird one. He would go for sprints after the meet, but I would usually be a more before kind of guy.

So maybe we should practice before these calls instead of after. Right. So same idea. It's the same sales process. I'm unselling you on what we're doing now. Painting a picture of what it could be and selling you on that. So that's the key. Getting managers bought in is one buy in on this is. Nick, I cannot express to you, like, if people watch this on YouTube. I saw it. You're like, oh, you're right. This is not a hard sell. It's just making sure that I'm reinforcing it with my leadership.

You did two things for me as a leader. I was sitting there thinking about current state, how depressing it is to sit there and watch call recordings and check off boxes on a rubric to send it to a rep who just, like, glances at it, deletes it, and doesn't care. And then I also. You sold me on the future state of. Oh, wow. Okay. The rep actually is now going into every call prepared, and we're affecting our future performance, which I can actually affect effect. You did what a good salesperson does. You drag me through the glass of, like, how painful it is where I am today, and you took me to where it could go, and now I'm ready to make that change. And that's what you're doing with your managers. That's why your change management is effective, because you are selling it.

This is actually what makes it easier to get practice done in your auras. Because it's not practice. It's prep.

You feed two birds with one scone. You're literally. Your practice is your prep for the call. All right, let's practice how you're going to kick off the agenda for this really big meeting. Let's get a couple reps. Boom, Boom. And now I'm not sitting here thinking, this is a total and utter waste of time, because it's for that really big deal that I have next Thursday. And I'm prepping for the call, not doing two separate things, one of which I'm like, is this ever even going to come up again?

Katie, an amazing sixth episode or however many times it's been. We have to ask you the final cue. And it stayed the same for all six episodes. We talked about a lot of good habits that sales leaders can exhibit. It's time to talk about a bad one. So what is one bad habit that all sales leaders should break so that every team out there gets a little bit better?

Most sales leaders are the bottleneck of their team because what good looks like lives in their head. And then they wonder why their team is not more independent. They wonder why their teams don't take more ownership. They wonder why things don't get executed upon, because what good looks like is rattling around in between their ears. And as you have two sets of leaders, you have the ones that just never took the Time to document it or you have another set of leaders. We think that's what makes them special. Because if I take it out of my head, I'm replaceable. That's the flaw, is get it out of your head, y'. All. Y' all could walk into my org right now and coach my reps damn near as well as I can because it's documented. Without knowing the product, without knowing the industry, you could waltz right in. So what do you think that does for my directors and my managers and my reps? I get asked all the time how I can do webinars and how I can do some consulting on the side is because I have a system that doesn't require me to be involved in every single thing. I'm coach, like what we're recording right now. I am coaching calls right now while I'm on this call. You know why? Because the scorecard's been built. I'm. I am coaching right now. There are calls being worked on in my org right now with the scorecard that I help build while I'm on this call that scale. So the flaw is keeping it in your head and not getting it down on paper and being the bottleneck for your work.

Amazing. Katie. Unbelievable show and in a couple of weeks you're running a session teaching people how to tear up 50 deals in under an hour. And so go check out that it's in the show notes if you want more kd or you can go check out the other five episodes he's been on. We'll also link those in the show notes. Everyone hang for a 60 second recap. Coming up soon. Cheers. Today's tactic is brought to you by Attention which uses AI to capture all of your sales interactions, Automate sales busy work like CRM updates and flag hidden deal risk. So if you want to avoid ghosted deals, end every discovery call with these three questions. Number one, do you want to buy AKA validate if the deal is real? Number two, when do you want to buy validate if it will close this year. And then number three, how do you buy validate that they will get you in front of power. We put together a guide on how to unblock the three biggest deal blockers in your pipeline. There's a link to get it down in the show notes.

Today's show is brought to you by Nooks. Nooks is the AI powered pipeline engine that researches your accounts, builds your target list, writes your email emails and gets you more live conversations on the phone. Thousands of reps at companies like HubSpot, Seismic and Deal use Nooks to automate the busy work and prospecting so they can focus on closing deals. Reps that use nooks daily have twice as much pipeline as their peers and we put together a guide with our friends at Nooks on how to automate the busy work in prospecting and dialing so you can focus on winning. Go get it for free at the link in the show notes. Today's show is brought to you by 11x your all in one digital GTM team handling, creating, qualifying and converting pipeline across every channel. If you are still using stale triggers like congrats on the funding you're getting blended in with everybody else. The best use unique signals, exact LinkedIn posts, negative product reviews, podcast appearances and use those as their trigger. And we built a growth playbook with our friends at 11x breaking this stuff down. You can get it for free at 11x, AI backslash 30mpc or grab it.

In the show notes Alrighty folks, it is time for a two by two recap email. Nick, what do you have for your.

Two so my first one was when you're working with a replay and trying to help them improve in their conversations with a prospect, work backwards. Start with what you are trying to get the prospect to say and then build backwards what you need to ask or what you need to say to get them there. Number two was change your conversations with your reps from looking backwards. Hey, how did that call last week go to looking forward? Hey, I saw you have a big proposal call with Acme next Wednesday. Let's talk about how we're going to go into that one and what you can do now is your prep for that call. Can actually get married with your practice. If that call the agenda is going to be really important to nail, you can actually practice with the rep a couple times how they will set the agenda for that call which should get them more motivated because they are now practicing for a real prospect interaction. That should mean commission for them if it goes well.

Number three Run one study of greatness per manager per quarter. What that means is you pick one metric like win rate, you go figure out which rep is best at it and then you start on the calls where they are most likely to demonstrate the behavior that makes them best in that metric. So for win rates you might look at discovery calls or for a high contract value you might look at the proposal or the closing calls and then number four from there you use the four Ds to roll out change. Define what good looks like, document what good looks like, demonstrate it and make the rep, run the training and then last for deliver it in form of scorecards and other things that are integrated into your daily sales rhythms. Arty Nick, how could people help us out here?

If you want to learn more from KD1 in the show notes, we've got links to all of his episodes on 30 NPC, but upcoming we have a Kevin Dorsey Armand Farouk special how to Tear Through a Pipe review. So if you want to learn from two of the best sales leaders that I've ever had the pleasure of learning from Armand, you're included in that, believe it or not. Despite how strange you can be sometimes and your pizza preferences, I highly recommend you check it out. There's a link in the show notes to register or get the recording if you're listening years in the future from today. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week.