AI Tech Empowerment For Sellers And Buyers with Derek Anniston

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Thanks for having me. Appreciate it for sure.

My man. It's been a long time coming. We were trying for a while to make this happen. So we finally got it going and so we're going to dive right into it, man. Like when I hit you up about what topic you wanted to cover, like, this is what you brought up, right? It's like, you know, tech empowerment. So let's start with that. What do you mean by tech empowerment?

Right.

Using technology to empower people.

Absolutely. So from my perspective, we work in an industry that has been deprived of technology. And so commercial lending is still done very much like you'd expect at community banks where people are filling out a physical loan application and they're waiting a couple of weeks to hear back. There's a lot of back and forth providing tax returns and a lot of physical exchange of documents. And so when I first got into this industry, one of the things I noticed is, hey, there's room for some technology and innovation that maybe has already sort of come to fruition in consumer lending in other places. And so we started down the road of just any technology must be good, right, because it's better than nothing. And eventually, over time, sort of came to the conclusion that technology could actually create more problems, you know, than just not having any at all. So maybe the vacuum of technology wasn't the problem. It was sort of how we were thinking about buyers and sellers and what our role is supposed to be.

I like that call out too, of how technology also affects the buyer. So let's keep going down there because there's so many tools that have been given for salespeople and marketers and all these things, but there aren't always that many tools to make things easier on the buyer. So what are some examples of where you've seen tech actually hurt the buyer or make the buyer experience worse?

Well, it's interesting because we're commercial lending company, so we lend money for a buyer to buy something from somebody else that's selling them that something. So in a lot of ways, we're an intermediary to the transaction and, you know, a normal transaction, buyer and seller. So anytime somebody's in between a buyer and a seller, that can be problematic. So for us, we've thought about things like, hey, here's our upload portal where you can upload the needed items and then we'll convey, you know, some of this over to the seller. And so in some ways, we're. We're interfering with that straight line of communication between the two. You know, drip email sequences. When those first came on the scene, it's like, wow, now we can email, email all kinds of different people, timely reminders to do things. But it took away a lot of the really simple straight line communication that maybe is what people expect when they go into a buyer and seller transaction.

So what should people think about that? Because I think it's a really good call out of, like, if you're looking to roll out technology either internally or for your team, like, what are some things that you should maybe look at or think about with the buyer? So that, that actually is a good experience for both sides.

So one of the first things that we thought about is as an intermediary, if you're not part of that transaction and you're not directly selling them something. And so I always think, like a real estate agent is a good example of an intermediary. The title clerk in a real estate transaction is an intermediary. And so if you're outside of that transaction, what you really want to do is do things that provide insights and information and to kind of like leave the human element at the beginning of the transaction and at the end of the transaction. And so all of that middle ground where it's just helping somebody go through a journey, it's about just providing them with automated information and then giving them tools so that they can keep moving at their own pace. Something, Kevin, and you might relate to this. Something we always think about is you can look at it like a buyer is driving down a highway and there are all kinds of different exits that they can get off of. And in some ways, much of the technology stack that exists out there is forcing people to get off the highway and to take all these pit stops that they don't need to take. Already got a full tank of gas, don't need to go to the bathroom, don't need to stop for any checks, mix or Gatorade. I just want to keep moving at my own pace. And so in some ways, if your technology just lets them move as far as they want down the road, get as much information as they need about the transaction, about next steps, and to pursue those next steps at their own pace, it's better than, you know, something that's, that's sort of forced and jarring.

Yeah. And I like that a lot. Because people, you know, more and more like we force a sales process on prospects without thinking about what the buying process is.

Right.

The sales stages don't match the buying stages, the methodologies don't match how people buy, which I think is a really important thing to think about. But then especially with technology, right, if it's forcing people down a path that they don't want to go down, multiple forms, different, you know, speaking to an SDR than an AE and all these different things like that definitely gets in the way. Now you mentioned this at the beginning, right, of like an industry that still doesn't leverage a lot of tech or is just starting to get there. So it's kind of like a two part question of like, how do you, I guess how do you get the team comfortable with technology? Because that's the first place. But then also then too, like, how do you warm up, you know, the buyer or the, you know, the buyer of your product or the buyer of someone else to technology if it's not how they're used to doing business? So kind of a two parter there, like, how do you enable the team better to get used to the technology and then also how do you warm up a buyer to use technology they're not used to?

Well, from the team standpoint, I kind of go back to your introduction. Our robot's going to replace us. It's not really the question that our team asks, but on some level it's like, am I being replaced or is my utility going out the door now that a system can do this? And so part of how we've done it is to position technology as tools to help people do more and better things with their job and their role. And so this is a resource that you can use that will give you more time, which is the one thing we can't get enough of and that we've got a finite amount of, but give you more time to focus on things that add more value for your prospects for your customers, deepen the relationships even. And so with the technology side of things, I always think of it as like if you're giving the customer insights on an automated basis, but you're also giving your team insights that everybody's better off because there's less asymmetry of information, things can sort of move forward at momentum. And you actually said something that was an inspiration for us in at least a recent airing that I listened to, which is you were talking about how you think the future of phone calls is going to be done more on like a triggered, real time, insight driven basis as opposed to just, it's time for follow up number three, it's time for follow up number six. And so we've tried to position it in such a way as, hey, this helps you do better for your customer and will ultimately lead to you having a more fulfilling and deeper long term relationship with that customer.

Yeah, no, and I think that's a really good call because that is the case, right. Of like, if you think about how we treat every prospect the same when every prospect is different. We call on day three, we call on day five. Well, one of them has opened three emails, another one has not. So we should probably be treating them differently. And we haven't really built those systems and processes out, which I think it's where it's going to have to go because there's so many tools that supposedly are saving reps all this time. I don't know about you man, but I'm sure as hell working just as long, if not longer than I was three, four years ago without all these tools. And so it's starting to stack up a little bit. So like, what should a company consider? And then we're going to come back to the buyer for a second. But like what should a company consider before investing in technology? Because I think a lot of companies think like, oh, if I get this, that's going to solve all these problems. Like what are some things they should be thinking about before investing in a tool for their team?

I think if you step in as a buyer of technology, so if you're not going to build it out, create your own proprietary systems, you almost have to do sort of the reverse of the process as if you're selling somebody that technology. And so you have to think what are the problems that exist? And also consider that the status quo in some cases could be better than the change. So you sort of have to lay out what are those problems. Most technology comes with some kind of a risk. There's an opportunity cost for the expenditure, depending on how expensive it might be to implement and test. It's also, it's kind of hard to like unring a bell. We had a gentleman who worked here for many, many years who used to say, there are some bullets that you can't put back in the gun once you fired them. And so I feel like sometimes when you go down a road of change and you ask everybody to come along that road, if you walk it back and say, nevermind, that didn't work out so well, your team starts to lose confidence in your decision making moving forward. So I really think an analysis of what are the problems we want to solve, what are the risks of investing in this technology and then also maybe do it on a really, really small micro level first, test it out with one segment or if you're a company like ours where you've got multiple companies underneath a single umbrella, maybe just test it for one vertical or maybe even just one sales rep. Sometimes I get to be the guinea pig and I test something out just for me. And so I think those are the kind of the considerations that go in there. And ultimately for us, we found that in most cases, no technology is often similar to pursuing a technology that you're unsure about.

And I think part of what you mentioned is why I do think product led growth is going to continue to build momentum because that's what buyers want. They want to experience it a little bit, they want to get their hands on it, right? One rep, two reps, right? That was always what was so hard for me towards the end of my time. Em at patient pop got 150 plus people and you're asking me to all or nothing like, oh, I gotta sign this contract and try to onboard 150 people before I've even tried it, before anyone has gotten their hands on it. I think that's such an important. Thing. When people ask me where I think sales is going and I talk about these things, it's like I'm talking because of what I believe buyers are going to want. Buyers are going to want to try products, buyers are going to want to experience it more. Buyers don't love long term agreements. And those are the things that we need to prepare for now with the tech that we're using now. I do want to take another step back real quick. We've kind of danced around it a little bit, but I think it's important to think about because oftentimes companies look at opportunities going, oh, this industry is behind in tech, let's go bring it tech. Right, let's. Oh, this is perfect. Right? It hasn't evolved that much yet, but oftentimes that can freak out the industry, right? Like people aren't ready for it or they're not. So like, how can you introduce technology into an industry that maybe hasn't gotten there yet? And this is now more on the buyer side of like, okay, whoa, what's this tablet or what? Wait, I got to do it on a computer when they're used to filling it out on forms, like, what are things you've seen to work in an industry that maybe is adapting now to actually make it more comfortable for the buyer to use the technology.

So I think really for us there are two ways that we address that concern. The first one is creating alternate journey and customer pathways that don't require use of the technology. And so, for example, you know, we've built a platform that lets customers pre qualify for financing. But some customers say, I just want to fill out a paper application. Others it's like, I'm going to call your help desk and I want to talk to somebody who can just do this over the phone with me. And so we've built ways that allow people to avoid or sidestep technology if they'd like to. But then I think we've had to swing really hard the other way too. Like if you're going to do that, then you need to have a journey that doesn't involve talking to a person. And so you also need to have the journey for the guy who says, hey, I want to fill this out and I just want to sign my documents and be done. I don't want to receive a call every week and follow ups. And maybe they don't even want the relationship, they want something transactional. And so we've just sort of thought about it as you have to create a buyer journey, map it out and then think about the fact that technology is going to be foreign to some of your customer base, particularly since it's strange in the industry. So that's one thing that we've done to address it. I would say kind of the other approach that we've taken with respect to technology is baby steps. And so when we first rolled out platform, it's not like this platform is going to pre qualify you automatically generate your documents, send you reminders and help you pre fill your bank data and financial data. When we first started it was this platform will tell you yes or no, we can help. And so we started with a feature stack that was very, very limited, but that allowed us to get some test data, learn more about the market segment and then expand the technology. Once we saw there was a comfort level there. There are lots of things that we take for granted. We have, for example, a large base of customers that are involved in logging or trucking, agriculture. And so the first thought was, you know what, having people remotely notarize their documents online, is that going to go over well with some of the blue collar customers that we work with? Surprisingly, yes, it was adopted, but we didn't know that day one. And so we didn't want to roll that out, make it mandatory and only have one customer journey. So those would be the two things.

I would say I love. Back to your kind of freeway example, right? Different paths to the same end point, different on ramps and off ramps. Based off what the buyer wants. I really like that. And I think Oren Kloff talked about this in his book Flip the Script, where he talked about, like, oftentimes, if it's too novel, it scares people. And so the people that are building the products, they want to build something new and flashy and, oh, this is going to change the game and be disruptive. What they forget is who they're disrupting. And it's scary to disrupt. It's scary for me to get something I've never experienced before and have to leap right in versus that. I love that baby step idea of like, yes or no. All right, hey, you did it. You clicked. You clicked the button right? Like you made progress. I think that's a really good example. And so then that was kind of, as we start to get towards wrapping, a little bit of like, talking about tech empowering people. Right. Because, you know, this idea of whether it will replace us or not gets brought up a lot, you know, of like, oh, like, you know, you asked a salesperson, will we ever be replaced by technology? Of course. No, never. Technology can never do what I do. Then you talk to some of the tech people and go, yo, you got maybe seven, eight more years before, like, it can do most of what you're talking about. And so how do you make sure that tech is empowering your people and not actually dragging them down?

Yep. So I think a big part of it for us is figuring out what human beings are not consistently good at doing. And so, you know, hey, I've known people who could just quote somebody a possible payment after 10 seconds on the phone with them. Just a gut instinct. This is about where you're going to be and probably be right 90% of the time, like that exists. But I've also known people who have done this for years and years and maybe wouldn't be the best at doing that. And so we used to have this issue where, you know, I had this. This couple floors of sales reps who would convey terms to customers. And, you know, one person would. Let's call him Travis. That's not a real name, but one person would call a customer. And it always sounded like bad news, no matter what. It could be, like, the best terms and rate, and it could be like a long shot that we even got that person approved, but if it came from him, bad news. And then there was another gentleman, you know, that that could call anybody and it could be the worst terms the world. And everybody was, like, so excited. And there was a high level of Energy. And so I think human friction cuts both ways. So people can be overexcitable, people can be pessimistic. There's an emotional element to dealing with a human being. And so anything that requires an interaction where an emotional element is going to be part of the decision making is not something that humans can consistently do well. So that's just one example of something that we looked at and said, you know, what if the system just quoted people and it was just about numbers on a screen? They can't think that the numbers sound rude. They can't think that the person is hurrying them off the phone. They're not going to hear the numbers and say, what did he mean by that? Or why did he say it that way? When he said 1100 per month, what did he mean by that? All of those little things make a big difference in how somebody interprets the data. When we talk about superpowers here, it's something that we say occasionally. It came from a review that somebody put on Google where they said, the entire team swooped in like a team of avengers and helped me with my transaction from the beginning to the end. And so we coined the phrase around here that we want technology that gives our team members superpowers. And so it's the idea that, hey, I can't perfectly quote everybody. I can't consider, you know, a quarter million possible variables for how you might qualify, but the system can. And guess what? I have access to the system now. I have that power. We've looked at it in that way. What are things that human beings maybe are not consistent at, or that there are very wide varying levels of efficiency at? Those are the things let's let the computer do. What are the things that people tend to be good at? Building a relationship, saying hello, welcoming you to the family, once we fund a transaction with you, answering basic questions, and so let people do those things. I would say that that's a big piece of it that we want to invest in technology that lets people do things they wouldn't be able to do otherwise. And so they can focus time on doing more and better things with customers.

I really, really like that. Cause it takes in the human element on both sides. We'll go here, though. How do you maybe help reps or team members see blind spots? Right, where maybe we're not willing to admit that a computer could do it better, or we're not willing to admit that tech might do it better. Right. I've this for 20 years, Derek. I don't need some technology doing this. Like, how do you help, I guess, cross that bridge or that chasm around like awareness that hey, maybe there is a better way to do it first.

Have you been talking to some of our team members?

You know, I might have, I might have done some back channeling before this interview, you know, to get ready for it. But, you know, yeah, you know, I think it's a pretty common thing that comes up in industries, especially when you've got like, we'll call it industry vets and pros, where it has been done a certain way for a long time. And then it's like, no, this is how I do it. Like I'm the professional.

Right.

So how do you try to cross that bridge?

Yep. So you. I'm a big football fan and so occasionally a team over the years would have just the one star. Running back. Emmett Smith, Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders, there's a handful of guys that you'd put in that category. Over time you started to see something called running back by committee. And so we use that phrase around here along with a whole bevy of sports metaphors that my team, they're sick of hearing, frankly. But we basically had an approach that maybe there's a solution that lets us leverage your Expertise and your 20 or 30 years worth of doing this along with the system. And what does that look like? And so initially, the way we did it, we didn't want to mandate technology that people felt resentful about using or that they felt suppressed, something that they are good at. And by the way, I said this to begin with, some of them actually are good at those things. Right. And so what we did is a running back by committee approach. You know, for your transactions that you source directly from a dealer, we can turn the quoting tool off on those and you can have an opportunity to interface with the dealer because it maybe makes sense for this vertical. But hey, for anything that comes, you know, through the website, end user facing from third party originators or brokers, referral based business, business, that might be a lead that we would distribute to you in a round robin form. How about let's have those handled by the system quoting tool so that they're handled in a systematic way. So that's sort of what we've done is when people have concerns about that or when people are, particularly if they have a skill, we still want to leverage what they're good at. So that's been part of it. And I would say, Kevin, the second thing that we've done is say, you know what, what do you think would Be something that we could integrate in the way you look at transactions when you quote them into the system. So that, you know, here we are version, this is version 12 actually of our platform. As we're looking at that now, I can honestly say that there are 20 plus contributors to that system. Everybody here feels like a stakeholder because they've had some involvement in crafting how that system does what it does. It's part of what makes it superhuman. It's like Voltron. We're combining the powers of all of the sales team into one. And so, so I think those are kind of part of our strategy for that.

I like that. I hope people listen. I hope you caught that too in terms of how important involvement is in adoption. Because so often at a lot of the companies that I've been at or that I consult, right the top makes the decision to buy a tool, but the reps and the managers weren't involved in it. And so then they don't feel ownership, they don't feel like they were included. And so this tool to get scrolled out that they maybe didn't even want, they didn't even know it was coming. Now it's like, wait, I got to take 3, 4 hours to learn this new tool that I didn't even like. And so the idea of getting involvement, I think it's really, really important. We would always talk about who are the domino reps? Like who are the reps that if we get on our side, if they fall the good way, everyone else will follow. If they fall the bad way, everyone else will follow. We need to make sure that we get them involved and build it the right way for them. And so as we almost wrap here, there's a question I wanted to ask you. As soon as you said tech, this is one of my favorite questions to ask people when they start talking like technology is what's a tool that you wish existed that you don't think does yet or that you haven't been able to find? Like what's a tool that if you could design the perfect tool for your team or your industry, what would that be?

I think something that would be pretty neat to have would be a follow up blueprint engine. And let me just explain what this would look like in my world. You would be able to set parameters for how follow up is automatically scheduled, even done some messaging, text message, email, those sorts of things based on a whole bunch of different criteria. So things like if they've taken a phone call, if we've tried to reach them, they've opened an email or we've sent a text message in the last week, then handle it with this cadence frequency. There's so many different scheduling tools. Most of the CRMs have some sort of activity, task management sequences, those sorts of things, but not something that's a programmable, you know, engine to create a perfect follow up cadence for sales teams. And I think the reason why that's so interesting to me, most CRMs do it all just straight line. It's like how many days before the next follow up is due. And so most, most of what's out there is set up with a series of steps, a series of tasks. And a lot of them are predefined either in time, in styling, in methodology, those sorts of things. But there aren't a lot of things that you can do that are dynamic and on the fly. And so the best reps, the best prospectors, the best account managers, the best customer success people are able to take the data and say, well, they opened an email, they've received a call in the last week and they have a feel for what to do. But I've not yet found a platform that allows you to sort of design something that on a machine learning basis or insight driven can create the perfect follow up sequence.

Yeah, no, I love that it's in line with what we talked about with the calls. And it's funny, I've talked to some of the big, you know, sales engagement platforms asking for something similar where it's like we build all these things on the sales side. Like marketing already does this. Like marketing tools of like, okay, if Derek clicked on this app and then spent more than 15 seconds on the landing page and made it this far down the landing page, then he's gonna see these type of ads when he logs in versus if so like they, they've done a lot of that. But then in sales it's like day one, day four, day nine, breakup email out. Right. And so no, I love that idea. I love that idea because I think it takes in the buyer into the tool more. What's the buyer doing? And based off what they're doing, that changes how the salesperson reacts. So I like it, I like, I like it. You know, we'll see.

If you get somebody that wants to put that together, let me know because we would absolutely love to have that. Although I will say it also makes people better when they have to think. And so the cream rises to the top, sort of. And I think people in our organization that thrive begin to do that's How I know when somebody's going to be a long term person and I know when I'm like really impressed by them is the first day somebody says, you know, the system was going to send a follow up and handle it this way and move it to this stage. But I decided, I decided I should do this instead. And that's when like my ears perk up and I'm like, okay, there's a future here because there's still a, you know, there's a human side of it and that's a connection that you just made to that person. You identified how they might feel about something and you adjusted your behavior accordingly. And guess what? The machine still can't do that.

And that's what I love about with like giving tech to people with experience because they have a little bit of that. Here's what I would have done without the tech. Whereas on the flip side we have so many new people coming into the industry now where they're walking into tech and so they don't have the experience of what would I have done without this. I can't even tell you how many times they'd be like, oh, someone clicked on your email three times, they're like, yeah, I'm like, call them. Oh, but the call step isn't due until tomorrow. No, call them. They are interacting with your content, right? And having like that. So you're all full circle, having the human element of like, what would I do if I didn't have the technology? And someone with experience generally is able to bring that in. Funny enough, I used to make people earn the tool. So like a tool like outreach or sales law, your onboarding, you actually didn't get to use the tool for the first two months. That way when you got it, you understood the value it was bringing. Right? When you had to send emails manually, when you had to track step four, step five, step seven on your own, then when you got the tools it was like, oh, now I get where this is. Providing value versus just getting it from day one and thinking like, ah, this tool sucks. So I just make people earn the tool because I think it's really important.

I think that is phenomenal. We, we sometimes living in the day and age that we live in now, take for granted what we have access to. I have a 15 year old daughter, my oldest daughter, and you know, she writes reports for school and you know, puts together a bibliography and there are algorithms now that will take a source of data and rewrite it in your own words for you and things like that. That didn't exist. And so I used to have to go grab the encyclopedias and checkbooks out and I wrote down notes physically. And so a lot of those things are very different. So we always say that our team is comprised of people that actually live in two different worlds. One group of team members was here before any of this platform existed, and so they see it through a slightly different lens. And a whole group of people, this is their only reality, is that this technology was here. You can probably guess who we lean on more. The folks who were here before the technology. If you can last and make it work for decades before that technology exists, odds are you're going to be here no matter what iteration of technology we see in the future, too.

Yeah, as long as you are willing to adopt it, you know, and you touched on this a little bit already, but that, that is a key. Like, if you're not willing to adopt technology, you're going to be in trouble, right? Like, it's there, it's there for a reason. And if you can adopt it, you'll do better. But if you fight it, you're like, nope, I'm always going to do handwritten notes or, nope, I'm always going to manually go to the library, get the Dewey index card, right? Like, pull out, source it. Well, someone else is writing that report in a day while it's taking you a week. And you have to adapt to the technology. So I love this, man. There's a lot of good stuff here. I got one more question for you. We end every show with this question, right? Because the name of the show is Live better, Sell Better. This weird idea, you know, if we lived better, if we had more energy, more fulfillment, enthusiasm, joy in life, that the sales would also improve. What would your live better advice be for people listening?

So the biggest one for me that's just made a gigantic world of difference is every night before I go to bed, I make a to do list. And I intentionally make that to do list incredibly challenging. And so I'm not talking 10 items, 20 items, I'm talking 50, 60, 70 items on my to do list. Every single day, work sort of expands to fill the time allotted. So the more things you give yourself in a day, the more you end up ultimately getting done. But I think the biggest piece of that is as I go to bed at night, my brain sort of starts to process some of the problems I need to solve for the next day. And when 8am rolls around, I already know exactly what I need to start doing. And I'm I get that burst of adrenaline all day as I'm checking items off. And so, you know, here I am, this is my 13th year here and I'm still doing that every single day. And it's a game changer.

I love that advice. And again, notice that has nothing to do with tech. That is just straightforward. Here's my to do list. And it does. And there's actually a lot of science behind it too, of what it does for the brain, why it actually allows you to sleep better. And also to the point of checking things off builds momentum. It's a better dopamine hit than like checking your phone. It's like, oh, I did that check. Even if it's the most minuscule thing, I made my bed. Check that. Checking off of things. Our brain loves completion. So I love that tip, man. We did that all the time with our teams. Like write down the first 10 names. Just write it down. Who are you going to call tomorrow? Having that ready started the day off the right way. So, Derek, my man, this is awesome and a much needed topic because I think we dance around tech too much. Where can people find you, get more of your content, learn more about you, your company, where, where can they get more of what you're putting out?

Yep. So they can connect with me on LinkedIn. Of course. Our website is slsfinancial.com that's the parent company and obviously always happy to answer any questions anybody has, whether or not they're going to be a potential customer.

Hell yes, my man. Well, I appreciate you, dude. Thank you so much for your time, energy and insight. This was great.

Thank you. Appreciate it, kd. Bye. It.