Become a Sales Ninja with Marcus Chan

Every company has breakdowns in their revenue process. Sure thing. Deals slip into next quarter, competitors creep in and swipe deals away at the last minute, and deals getting single threaded that don't get to power. These are just a few examples of revenue leak, but there are a ton more and they're preventing your team from reaching their sales targets. That's why I'm such a big fan of Clary's Revenue platform is the only tool that actually helps leaders take control of their revenue and thrive through any market conditions, especially when things get tough. You can't afford to miss a single detail, but you also can't be leading by gut. Clary combines the science and the art of sales and sales leadership. So go to clary.com if you want to answer the most important question in your business. Are you going to meet beat or Miss on Revenue? Welcome to the live Better Sell Better podcast with your host Kevin Dorsey of Inside Sales Excellence, the number one Patreon group and YouTube channel for tech sellers and tech sales leaders where we dive in deep for tactical advice on how to book more meetings and close more deals faster and lead sales teams to success. But we don't stop there. We also focus on the person in salesperson. We talk about mindset goals, time management and so much more. So thank you for listening and if you're interested, head on over to patreon.com InsideSalesExcellence now with that, grab a notepad, get ready and let's dive into the good stuff. What up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the live Better Sell Better podcast. This is your host Kevin Dorsey, AKA kd and today we're going to get our ninja on. Today we're going to be talking about Speedos. Today we are going into an absolute masterclass on sales because I have Marcus Chan with me today on the show which I am pumped for because not only is he a fellow LinkedIn top sales voice of 2020, but he's also someone who I believe 100% has deserved to be that award because not only does he have one of the most clever and eye catching taglines on LinkedIn, which we'll talk about here in a second. Right from speedos to seven figure contracts. But also because Marcus understands people. This is what makes him great at sales. He understands psychology, mindset, behavior modification, influence to the level where it's one thing if you're good at it, it's another thing if you can make other people good at it. And that is is what he does. He coaches sales reps now helping some of them double if not triple their income by following his proven process. And he's here today to share that process with us. Marcus, welcome to the show, my man.

Hey. Katie's my absolute pleasure, man. You really built me up. So let's lower the bar before we dive into it. But I'm excited to be here, man, like.

And the beauty is all truth, right? There's nothing in there I said was wrong. So we are going to do this, man. So what I like about the show and what a lot of people come for is, you know, we get right into it. No fluff, no backstories. We're just going to talk through it. And so what I actually thought would be a good way to start this off is where do you see most sales reps go wrong? We're going to get into what to do, but sometimes we can learn from what the wrong. So of the thousands of reps you've worked with, where do you see most of them go wrong when they're trying to sell?

Yeah, a hundred percent. Right. And I think it's very simple. A majority of reps who are struggling, they focus so much of their energy in how they pitch and everything else. They focus 100% on themselves and their company when that really is not as relevant as focusing on the person you are meeting with that prospect. And that's where, when you look at top reps, top reps do the opposite. They focus entirely on the customer, the process, and what they need, and very little on themselves. And they know only once they've earned the right will they position their offer. So that's a big mistake I see all the time across the board.

Right. And that's a perfect segue, though, too. Right. So everyone kind of says that, right? Focus on the prospect, talk about their needs. What does that actually mean? So I'm gonna break this into two questions. How do you focus on the prospect? And then second, you said, earn the right to give your offer a pitch. How do you earn the right? So start first with the focus on the prospect. What does that actually mean? How do you tactically do it? Then we're gonna talk about how to earn the right to sell. So let's dive into this.

Yeah, let's dive deep here. Right. Because at the end of the day, I'm a firm believer if you don't get the answers you want, you have to ask a better question. Right. It's classic Tony Robbins, and that's no different for sales professionals. And that really starts with your ability to ask the right questions with the prospect. Whether it's a cold call to the discovery. Right? So let's talk about the discovery, to be specific here, because when you, when you end that appointment with the prospect, you should really. Especially that first meeting, right? Assuming it's not a one call, close situation, or even if it is, doesn't matter. But your goal should be asking the right questions to really uncover what they are all about, if it's gonna be a good fit for what you have to offer. Right? And I'm sure we'll dive deep into the questions, but that's absolutely vital because only then once you uncover it's gonna be a good fit, can you earn the right to present your offer. Because if it's not a good fit, it doesn't make sense to even present your offer, whether it's that call or any other call. Because frankly, you'll end up wasting their time and your own time. I mean, it's important to qualify, but it's just as important to disqualify process from your sales process as well.

And so in your eyes, are there, is there a difference between qualifying questions and good questions? Because I think a lot of reps, right, they ask their qualifying questions and they feel like, marcus, I did it, I asked good questions, I went in, I asked good questions, they are qualified. Now I can pitch. What's the difference between a qualifying question and some of the types of questions you're talking about? About exposing need or a want there.

Yeah, great question, right? So I think a lot of times it's reps kind of box themselves, right? They're like, hey, I did, I did medic, I did band, I did these frameworks. Everyone's got, you know, something. I'm like, that's cool. That's like the bare essentials, you know, it's kind of like if you're going to go and try to find your life partner and you got at least a minimum bar you want to cross, that's it. But doesn't mean that's who you marry.

Okay? Right. Right.

You want to be able to go deeper and in reality is you want to, you want to uncover certain things. And I make it very simple. You want, you want understand the whys and the hows, right? Why they buy and how it helps. And it's for across the board, for anything. Even if they say, hey, we have X budget, that's cool. Why do you have a budget and how's it impact the business? Right? That's across the board. And when you get, when you started thinking this way, the whys and hows, you started covering different things. So if you uncover why they buy, for example, if they have a curtain vendor, why do they choose that vendor? How they go about choosing them? What, what made them stick with the vendor? What was the criteria, aside from price? You start understanding some of the psychological needs that they have. That's usually beyond just band, medical or any other sales process. You start uncovering how they think. And of course, the why. And the how also varies depending on which buying influence you're meeting with, because each of them may have their own. So your ability to navigate that and ask those deeper why and how questions helps you guide to say, hey, you know what? This is a really good fit because I can satisfy not just the basic needs, but also their true deep psychological needs. That's going to help them with whatever they're shooting for now.

I love this. And so I knew we were going to get to this rabbit hole. I didn't have to set you up for this, right? So now you're using some of my favorite words, right? We're going to get into psychology here a little bit, right? So let's talk about the psychology of buying and influence and sales. What are some of the key things you learned about how our brains work that you apply into selling and influencing people to make a good decision?

Yeah, 100%. I think the first piece was, is when I was studying and learning this, right? Because first off, when I started in sales, I was like the pitch monster, right? Like knock on 100 doors, door to door, make 100 calls, do all these things, pitch, pitch, pitch. Hopefully it'll close. It's a numbers game, whatever, right? And I struggled right now the mistake early on was I focused on how can I influence people, how can I get them to do what I want, right? And that's really the wrong mindset, right? The mindset first should be how can I influence myself first internally to become the best version of me. Because only then when I can lead myself, can I influence and lead others. And that's whether it's with leadership or with prospects. And that's where it begins with first, by working on my own personal self awareness and being really aware of what I was doing, was it the right behaviors, wrong behaviors, and then by understanding myself that allowed me to put myself in a prospect's shoes and how can I influence that behavior? And here's a really simple example. I'm a pretty high energy guy. I bounce off the walls. Some prospects, especially if they're kind of stoic, are very turned off. By that they're like, oh, who's this guy? He's bouncing on the wall. He's got too much energy, he talks fast, they're stowable. Now average reps, if they acted this way, would just go in and they're like, you know, they're in there, they're bouncing off the walls, et cetera. They're trying to sell that way by understanding myself more and being more self aware made me realize, hey, you know what? I can still be my authentic, true self. But I do need to adjust how I work with that prospect. Now, I also need to be very careful depending on how they mentally process stuff, on the vocabulary I use and what I do. So for example, if I'm working with a cfo, which typically they are obviously more numbers driven, more analytical in general. Right? That's how they usually process. If I come in there and my meeting with them and I'm just, just using words like, this is incredible and amazing and fantastic and this will solve all your problems, they're gonna look at me like I'm crazy. But understanding how they process and they're using more factual based and like number certain things. I need to adjust my words as well, showing precise, detailed calculations or proof to showcase my offer. And when you start, and this is all again, this starts with yourself first. When you focus on yourself, understand who you are and how you're portraying yourself, then you can start focusing on other people and say, okay, you know what? Now I can start adjusting my style to really cater and fit that person. Now, of course there's psychological principles that kind of apply across the board. That's good for overall influence. But the key is if you want to not just get people to like you, but get them to buy from you, you need to understand how you are and how you impact those people and what they are like.

So what triggered that journey or that switch? Right, because not a lot of people that I get to talk to have as many books behind them as you do. That talk about learning the way that you do. That talk about self awareness the way that you do. I watched your webinar over the weekend. I got a little taste of your backstory. What triggered that though? Because that wasn't who you always were, that wasn't how you always functioned. So what was that? Either like that moment or individual or trigger event that said, whoa, I need to be better in order for my results to be better.

Yeah. So, you know, I think, you know, when you graduate college, right? You know, I graduate college and you know, I Was, you know, I was pretty like confident myself, right? You know, by a little bit egotistical. You think you're bulletproof and you're like, you know what? Like, I did pretty well in school, I graduated, I did these things. And I'm pretty proud of myself. What I accomplished out of college and going to a real job no longer like, you know, standardized testing, right, In a real job and failing and getting punched in the face over and over made me realize pretty quickly I'm not that great. I'm not that great. And I needed that. I needed that humbling. And at that moment when I struggled, right, I really struggled because I was terrible at sales. I struggled for weeks. It made me realize in those dark moments, and this is in the last recession, in those dark moments when I thought I was probably going to get fired or I was going to have to quit, get a new job, and I was just struggling. And I was really questioning myself as a professional, a human being, could I even do this job? I questioned myself. And I realized in that dark moment, if I wanted to achieve more, I had to become more. And I started to feed my mind. I started realizing very quickly I had to become the version of myself that deserves success, that earned success. I was still a entitled 21, 22 year old who just thought the world's gonna be given to him, you know. So I realized that moment, I'm like, man, I saw things such a small lens because in my mind I'm like, I grew up so poor from my parents and you know, being one of the first kids graduate with a college education. I'm thinking myself, I'm on top of the world. I'm already had the game, but I really wasn't. So that was important. So at that moment I started just, I started throwing myself into self development and personal development. Like, I became like, I obviously read sales books and you know, Zig Ziglar, you know, Brian, she's all those normal ones. But I started becoming obsessive about personal development, about becoming the best version of myself, about who I wanted to become down the road. Like, I had this like, you know, big goal in my head. I'm retire when I'm like 45, 50 from corporate America. I'm gonna do whatever I want. But I also realized if I was gonna do that, I needed new mindsets, new ways of thinking, new values, new beliefs, new habits, new routines in order to get to that level. So I started obsessively throwing myself, I started spending money I didn't have, investing into conferences Events, buying books, doing whatever I could to consume knowledge, but also execute on the knowledge. And that was really cool. And I started seeing some results at first, right? It was really interesting. Is like, you know, over the years, like, I think the first four or five years, I started having some pretty good success. And that was. That was neat. But I didn't really realize the power of it. And then fast forward to about 2015. This is at this point, it was about 2015. It was about, you know, eight years out of college and working. I'm like, at that point is when I realized I had become a different version of myself. I had no idea. It just. It was like a slow transformation over time because people started asking me stuff like, hey, how did you. You get promoted, like, 10 times already? How'd you do that? Like, you're like, you're making all this money. How did you already do this? How'd you get promoted? How did you do these things? You seem to be in peak, you know, mental shape. Like, how did you get here? I'm like, I don't know. I just started reading books and going to conferences, and that was an aha. And people were saying, you should write books, etc. So that was the moment, though, and 2007 was when I started to work myself. That failing moment was when I made a realization, but I didn't even realize how my mind had shifted until almost a decade later.

I love it because it is. You know, people look at overnight success, but not pay attention to the 10 years of nights that led to that overnight success. Now, you said something I think was interesting, and it was a funny anecdote from Grant Cardone, who I have my own thoughts about. I don't know how people listening think about Grant Cardone, but he says something that really stuck with me. He was talking to two young individuals, and one of the guys goes and was like, you know, I've got. I've got $1,000 in the bank. What should I invest it in? And Grant goes, what do you mean, what should you invest it in? He's like, should I invest it in stocks, bonds, real estate? He's like, you invest that in yourself, you're already broke. You might as well make it official. Like that thousand. There's nothing you can do with that thousand dollars in an investment right now. He's like, go buy a book. Go buy a conference. Go pay a mentor for five hours of their time. Like, that thousand dollars isn't going to do anything for you right now. Invest it in yourself. You'll make that back faster than any other. You know, call it scheme you can think of. And I always love that because he's like, you're already broke. Make it official.

That's right.

Like you already only have $1,000. Might as well zero it out on yourself. Because I think that's where so many people miss, especially salespeople. They jump around, they look for a better job, a better territory, a better pitch, a better objection handling technique, and never focus on them being better. And so I hope that's a takeaway people get from this is like investing in yourself pays for itself better than any eft stock or bond you can come up with. Like over just. It's so important. So I hope people take that away from this. And so let's go to this next part then. Right? So you went on this journey, you started to get better, and with that you started to see your results go up. Why? Because people started saying, well, yeah, sure, cool, like, all right, you're better now. What did you start to change in your pitch? Right, so earlier we talked about questions, asking the right questions, starting to learn a little bit more about them. Okay, I've learned. What changed in your pitch then? To start closing more of these deals.

Yeah, great question. What I started realizing was everything affects your close rate, everything. And before, when I first started, I'm like, oh, you know what I need to get better at? Closing hand only objections. Yes. The fundamental blocks of closing. Yes, for sure. But I started realizing, because it's kind of like you start being able to work backwards, that, you know what if there's like different parts of the engine, I can refine all the parts of the engine that leads to an overall sales process from the point of they know nothing about me into that awareness stage to generate that interest all the way through. They're all different parts of the bucket that can start refining and working on. Right. And I'll give you an example. Even for my own business, okay, so like, for my own business, like, the close doesn't happen at the close. The close happens way before. And we start thinking this way. It's like, you know what? Like when I put out there quality content like you on LinkedIn, I know it's going to help my audience. It will also nurture my audience. So you're already increasing your closure by putting out quality content.

Okay.

And then every little piece adds up, right? You start realizing, you know what? Okay, you know what? Even how I go onto KD's podcast and have a conversation, how I show up, good or bad impacts my closure ratio. That all ties together. If I come up here and I just say fluffy things, you know, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, you see more people. Yeah, yeah, yes. You know, people sell the people. Yeah, yeah. I'm more general and we're not tactical here. Then people like, that's. That. That only hurts my closure, right? And you start realizing, okay, that means when I make that first outreach, that first call to them, if I'm not properly prepared, like your post today, if I'm not properly prepared for that call and I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about, shoot, that impacts my closure. Even if I get the appointment, if after I send an invite to them and even I spell their name wrong, again, that impacts my close rate. And you start realizing every part of your process, right? When you have that first sales call with them and you know, you don't. You're not. You're not prepared. You don't have questions ready, ready to go. You're not asking the right question. You're all over the place. Again, that impacts your close rate. So all these things are realizing very quickly all impact your close rate. And it's not just at the close of the pitch. The pitch is definitely very important. And being able to align what they want, need, and really desire to how you can solve the problems and more, that's obviously very important. But the close is the entire process. And when you understand that way and you work on refining every part of the machine, you automatically start closing more on the back end. Here's a really simple example, right? Like, you know, like, like I remember early on when I first started, like, I'm going into these meetings and I'm just like, my questions are like, I feel like I'm shooting from the hip. I'm asking all types of questions. They give me a response, I'm like scrambling. And you walk away not knowing if you even did a good job or not. Versus if I actually walked in and I have a list of questions, it doesn't mean I interrogate them, but they're a framework for me to follow in case I black out in that appointment, which we all do. But now I say if I black out, boom, no problem. I go right to go right back to my list. I can make sure I keep the cadence of the flow of the conversation. So by doing stuff like that, that all increases your closing ratio. Like, at the end of the day, the close isn't lost to the close, right? It's lost before that. So if you do the Things right on the upfront. It only puts you the highest likelihood of closing once you earn the opportunity to actually ask for the business.

No, I agree so much. And this is, I think, the shift in a lot of like the color seller education nowadays. We start to understand this if you go, you know, I started with Brian Tracy, zig Ziglar, Harvey, McKay, like all these old school guys. And it was like closing techniques and, you know, here's how you close someone. Whereas now we completely understand, like, the close is actually, in my opinion, by the way, I think the close is the easiest part. Yes, the close technically is just asking for the business, which a surprising amount of reps still don't do. They still don't ask, will you buy? There's a better way to ask it, but you'll get what I'm saying. Like, we hope the buyer will say, okay, how do I buy? And so for everyone listening, by the way, that puts up too much pressure on the buyer to make the decision. They should be able to buy by saying yes, not asking you how to buy. But the close is the easy part, setting someone up to close. Now, you mentioned something in this pitch, the wants, needs, desires. How do you weave that in? Because so many people, especially in the software world, especially once that pitch starts, it's all about the product. It's this feature, this button, this gizmo, this gadget, and the wants, needs, desires disappear. How do you weave that through a product pitch?

Yeah, so I think the first piece is you think about any type of software. There's so many. There could be literally hundreds of things you want to hit on, right? And especially if you have an engineer with you where it could just get controlled by the tactical details in which now you're only probably selling to maybe one possible buying influence, right? So you want to take a step back. And the way you want to picture this, it's like this picture whatever software or whatever product you're selling is like a buffet line, a buffet full of food. They don't want all of it. You know what you want, but it's irrelevant based on the prior discovery and the means you've had. What did you uncover in the buffet line that you want to point out? That's really important. Okay, that's the first piece. And then as part of it, it's just having a very simple framework of I say, hey, you mentioned earlier, A, B and C is important to you. Their need, wants, desires. Here's this feature that will help you achieve that. In reality, out of the hundred features and benefits that you might have, they may only care about five. So those five.

Sorry, I'm going to jump in there real quick. Could you say that one more time for the people in the back? Real quick?

Hundred percent. So you say, hey, earlier you mentioned that A, B and C is really important to you here. Based off of that, here is this feature right here that helps you accomplish those objectives. And then wait, what do you think? Can you see how it's taken cares for you? Just make sure before you move on to the next next one. Okay?

Right. They get the buy in. But what he. What he said there, y'.

All.

And it's so important, you don't have to show everything. Salespeople across this country lose deals over features the buyer didn't care about. They didn't care. You didn't have to show it. Only show the things that actually you can tie back to their wants, needs and dires. So I just, I had to jump in there because that's something that so many wrestlers miss. You don't have to show everything that they don't buy everything. They buy three to four things, that's all they want.

Exactly. Right? I mean, what you have, the picture is, you know, you talk about like, you know, if you watch any type of martial arts, most people know about, you know, pressure points, okay? Pressure points causes your opponent to go down. Right. And I'm not. I don't want to make it like an adversary thing when you're like, you're not fighting a process. The point is they have certain pressure points. Just point out those ones, okay? Whatever's important to them, whatever drives that, but whatever gets them excited, that's the one you want to focus on. And if you have multiple people on that demo, make sure you cater to those people. Right? Like, that's the mistake I see some people make is like they go onto like a demo. And maybe they only met with one person before on Discovery. Now there's like three people or four people or more people on that demo, and they have no idea what those other people are wanting to see out of the demo. So now you're only selling to one person. They walk away. And the other four people, like, well, didn't meet my needs, even though it could have, but they just have no idea.

And some real quick tip there too, is you start talking about, like, meeting with multiple people. And Sam McKenna, who we had on the show earlier this year, too, talked about this a little bit, is if you have a champion, prep for that meeting with them, don't Go in blind. Don't go in like, okay, I don't know what everyone cares about. Meet with your champion. And this also, by the way, will let you know if you actually have a champion, because if they're not willing to meet with you beforehand, it won't matter. So you have to find out what matters. And I always recommend you need to find out who's the domino. So, yes, you need to. You need to, you know, involve everyone. But who's the domino in that? Who. If you get to fall, everyone else falls with them. And oftentimes they're the quiet one. They're the one not saying anything. And so finding that person. So then, so with this, right? So now we've talked discovery, we've talked the pitch, and the close a little bit. Let's spend just a little bit of time on objections. What's your approach to dealing with some of, like, the common objections? You know, not interested. Pricing, not now. Like, how do you encourage your. Your students to handle those types of things?

Yeah. So I'll say first off, 99% of the time, the first objection you get is a pure smokescreen. That's just. You just have to understand that. You just have to understand, like, you will get objection. In fact, you should get objection. Objections help you navigate the sales process even deeper. Okay. And it's very simple. So first off, whenever, whatever objection they give you, just agree with them. Just agree with them, like, oh, you're too expensive. I can see how you feel that way.

Yeah.

What are they gonna say? What are they gonna say, guys, like, I'm interested. I can see why you'd say that. What? Yes.

Like, you finally, finally someone's getting into this. Yes.

Yeah, Just agree with them. Like, because maybe you don't understand. That's okay if you don't. You don't personally understand. Like, I don't understand why someone doesn't want to buy, but I can agree with them. Okay, sure. I can see why. Doesn't mean I agree with you. Just agree with them. Right. Same I get. Makes sense. But then you go deeper and the magic comes in the next move, which is really. You just really need to clarify down what is really on their mind. If they say, for example, hey, listen, you know, kd, your product, your program, your software is just too expensive. The mistake many reps make is they start trying to justify it. Just slow down. Hey, I can see why you'd say that, Katie. Notice a change in my tone, by the way? I can see why you'd say that, Katie. Can you tell me a little more about what you mean by that and just wait. Well, you know, it's just, it's more than we expected. Again, that's still super surface level. It's an onion that's like one layer deep. What do you mean by that? And you just start going deeper and deeper and they might eventually get to the point where say, hey, listen, well, here's the reality. We thought it would be $1,000 a month and your program is $2,000 a month. Okay, tell me more. Go even deeper. Like, what does that mean? Like, because just because there's a delta still of a thousand dollars does not mean it's not a good fit. So you need to understand what's really on their mind because prices is an easy smokescreen and you go even deeper and you might cover. Well, yeah, we only budget a thousand, but you know, I just, I just, we're not able. We just have no more budget a thousands. Really.

It.

Okay, I, I can appreciate that. Aside from the thousand dollar difference, is there any other reason that you would not move forward with our program today? And he's make sure it's the only objection now they might throw you another one like, oh, well, I'm not sure about this 12 month contract I got signed with you guys. Okay, tell me more about that again, clarify. What do you mean by that? Ah, we've never signed anything or you know, we're, you know, we're a startup. Sure, I get to. Tell me more. What does that even mean? I'm just not sure what we're gonna be even six months from now. Tell me more. Well, hey, you know what I think our worry is, you know, just what if we're not here? Tell me more. Why don't be personally stuck. So if I understand you right, you're not worried about the contract. You're actually worried that if in six months or three months or one month, if your business is not viable, suddenly you are personally held liable to the software we're gonna sign you up for. Is that right? Yes. So now we're getting to the real money, right? So I showed that as an example. Because your response is not as important as you understanding what the actual objections are. Because your response then can be a variety of things depending on how you sell and what you sell. And that's where the mistake many people make is. They have the response in their mind already, but they might be putting the wrong response in front of the wrong objection. And what you really want to do is you picture this way, it's like you're driving down the road, your windshield is dirty, and as you get objections, you keep trying to drive, and you're gonna run into something. So you gotta clear the objection. The questions clear your windshield. You open up the object, and you get a clear view of the road. And then you handle the speed bump or you go around it, and that's how you actually deal with objections. Because then from there, you can re showcase value on why it's worth the extra thousand dollars. Why they. They shouldn't have to worry about this, because objections really are. Hey, show me why X is not an objection. Show me why we should still partner together. And your ability to uncover the objection is really important. Then it's about dealing with it after you uncover the objection.

And something very. I guess I'll call it subtle, because I don't think a lot of people will catch it. But I know it's very intentional with you, and I hope everyone goes back. Listen to the tone switch, because your tone switch was perfect. What most sales reps do when they get objections, they actually escalate tone.

Yeah.

Right. So you're talking about. Well, I mean, it's. It's. It's worth it. I don't think I can do it. But, I mean, you probably could. And we start working up. You went back, it was like, oh, tell me a little bit more about that. Yeah. What it. What does that mean? And you pull people in. So it's being very mindful of your tone. And like, I love, like, talking to me like sales pro. Cause, like, we can't help but get into mode.

Oh, yeah.

You're not even dealing with real objections right now, and you can't help but. Yeah.

Oh, oh, tell me.

Right? You just get right into it. So it's fun to watch and to see this. And I hope people back up, listen to him, how he's talking normally, and the moment he thinks he's handling objection, how his tone switches, it becomes a much more of a talk to me tonality. And that's what helps pull things out. So I was a master class in tonality there. I love that.

So check out this really ninja move. I think you can appreciate this. Right. This is super ninja, Right? So I have an extra technique that allows a prospect to sell themselves out of the objection. Would you like to hear it? Katie? Do you want to hear it?

I would love to hear it.

I figured you would. Right. So you go through kind of normally. You empathize with them. You clarify down, you isolate down. So let's Just say, they say, you know what? Yeah, it's just, it's really. We aren't able to get more budget. We know. We just can't. Right. And that's the only thing, right before you respond, just pause and say, you know what, I get that. And you just ask them this. Hey, Katie, remind me again, what did you like most based on what we've discussed so far and wait and let them start telling you, well, we like this. Part of your software will like this and this. Great. How will that improve your business? Oh, well, it's going to improve by this and this and this. You mentioned earlier that you guys have to make a change. Isn't it worth the extra thousand dollars to address these issues you've already had? Yes. So now you're getting them to sell themselves and you may not need to even handle their objection.

You tie it back, you tie back, you tie back.

Get them to say it. And after they say, well, clearly this is a no brainer. Should we go ahead and just get you going right now?

Yes.

That's it.

Yes. Now this is perfect. I hope you hear, because remember earlier when he was pausing during his pitch where he was showing a feature then going, what do you think about this? How does this compare to what you're doing? How would this impact your business? He already knows the answers to these questions. So by the time the objection comes up, you're able to go back and say, hey, well, hold on, hold on. How many more deals did you think you would close if you had better training? Or how much time did you think you were going to save? Or like we talked about this and it's bringing it back. Most deals are lost because people, people forget why they needed to do it in the first place. Not because they couldn't afford it or they didn't have budget. They just forgot. Why. Wait, why am I doing this?

A hundred percent? Well, you think about this when you go, when you go for the close, right? It's uncomfortable for a prospect, right? We've all been there. We know we're about to get closed for anything, right. On the opposite end. And you tense up, right? And your primal lizard brain kicks in. It kicks in and you're like, it makes you want to pause, so you need to. And at that point, when the lizard brain kicks in, they have forgotten everything you discussed earlier.

Exactly, exactly.

So you need to bring it back into the state of where they want to buy, right? Not to be sold, but where they want to buy. Put them back in the buying state. And that Gives you the opportunity to be able to, you know, hopefully earn the business that same day.

If y' all want an extra little brain ninja trick there. This is why descriptive language is so important. If you can use very descriptive language of what they'll experience, see, or feel, it shuts down the logical part of the brain. It activates the emotional part of the brain, which is actually how we make decisions. So this is where as salespeople and even dealing with that, you know that pesky CFO we talked about earlier, where it's only numbers. Yes. But if you can paint a description of what those numbers are going to be and how they'll go, it lights up the front of the brain. That's what you want lining up. Not the lizard brain in the back. You want the front. So be descriptive as you go into this. And so actually with that, I want to ask one quick question here around. We've talked a lot about kind of tactics and techniques, which is great for the sales leaders that are listening, how can they better coach this? Right? Because they might hear this and go, oh, yeah, that's great. And, you know, they sprint out to their teams like, guys, guys, I've got it. This is what we need to do. And then no one does it. How can the sales leaders be better coaches? Because that's something that I think you're really great at. It's one thing to create a cool program or a great course, but you're actually able to get people to do it and succeed with it. So for the coaches, listen, how can they be better coaches with what they're learning right now?

Yeah, great question. Right? And I'll say, you know, even before I started my business, right, I'm always leading teams, big teams like you. And, you know, you realize pretty quickly you have. Your ability to influence your team to perform is. It's vital to your success. And it's not as simple as. Let me get out of soapbox here and say, hey, team, hey. We're gonna be better at asking questions and listening and watching your tonality. Well, most of them are just not gonna perform. Okay, the first thing is it's very simple. Number one, are you showcasing the behaviors you expect as a leader? Like, that's vital, right? That is so vital. And the reason I bring this up is so important. Where I see a lot of leaders, as they progress in their career, they get further away from the field, right? Like, if you're running a training meeting, are you role playing with the reps while you. Are you acting as a salesperson should. Showing them the behaviors you expect for anything you are training on. That's the first piece. Right. And letting them be tough on you, like, you want them to give you the worst objections. Because there's a few different reasons why it's important. Number one, when you do that, it revalidates you still got it. Okay. And number two, it instills belief. And leadership is a transfer of belief. So your ability to transfer that belief into your people depends on how you lead. So by showcasing that behavior is really important. And the number two is making sure, like, if you. If you're in the field with reps or on the phones of reps, having them see you do it live and coaching, guiding as well. It's so important. Like, I'll have reps where I show them in the classroom, in the office, and they go, that's cool. Whatever. We're in the safe zone. Then we go to the field and I do the behavior I expect. And when they see it, boom. When they see a work, it's amazing because it's like they get to see that progress for their pipeline. And progress is the ultimate motivation. So that's. The first piece is just showcasing, doing the behaviors. Okay. The second thing is when you are wanting to improve your team, you got to seek to understand first. It's not as simple as saying, hey, guys, I noticed our closing ratio is down. I'm gonna need you all to ask for the business five times every single day. That's very transactional. Before you assume that, yes, you have the numbers and the KPIs and you look at. But seek to understand what's really behind the numbers, because numbers can deceive you as well. Because anyone can position numbers in a different way. So going to seek to understand and seeing live what's really going on. Like, I've always been a firm believer the answers lie in front of your people. Like, if you have a rep who's struggling to book appointments, sit with them on the phones, listen to their phone work. If they're struggling to feel the clothes, go with them in the car back then go in the car with them, see what they're doing, see how they run their calls. Not as in a checklist way, you know, but as a way to support and engage the troops, lead your troops from the front. And when you do that, you will see the results are increasing and skyrocketing as a result. And I did this across the board where, you know, with all my teams, where they're used to an armchair quarterback, but once you start showing them that you are 100% invested in their success, not just by what you say, but what you do. You'll see the results are improving, especially when you. You showed you are truly committed to their success, Understanding their obstacles, helping remove them. Coaching guide for performance but what I love about you, Katie, is it's not just sales skills, but life skills. Get them better at life. And when they do that, they're gonna be more in debt to you and be more open to all types of coaching, whether it's about money, their mindset, family, relationships, whatever. And as a result of that, it'll compound and it becomes, you build a tribe, A tribe of people that will follow you wherever you go.

I love that, man. And especially as we're getting close to wrapping up here, I mean, that is what it is all about, right? That person in salesperson. Sales, right. It makes up more letters in that word salesperson. And it's actually the most important part. The better the person is, the better the sales. And your own journey actually showed that, like, to the letter. So. All right, so we got two final questions here, and they're my two favorite, right? We've been riffing for about 45 minutes now, right? We've covered a lot. You have dropped some gold on everybody. Should they forget everything except for three parts about how to be better at sales? What would those three tips. What do you want them to remember? They forgot it all. But they're like, actually, I learned these three things that had an impact. What would those three things be? You'd want them to walk away from? From this conversation, man.

Okay. It's a tricky one. We dropped a lot of bombs here. Okay. I'll say, you know, number one, right? Re. Listen to the tonality that's being done across the board. Especially objection. Handling. Especially objection. Handling. Okay, that's the first piece. Just understand that. Okay. The second piece is understand even from a sales philosophy perspective, your whole sales process impacts your actual close rate. So if you are not closing, it doesn't mean you're a bad closer. It may mean you have other parts of your process you want to really work to improve. And by understanding that, that gives you to take a step back to realize that. And then number three, if you want to become better at sales, work on becoming the best version of yourself. When you become the best version of yourself, that will lead to you being able to earn more clients and customers and to hopefully lead a happier, more fulfilled life across the board outside just sales.

I love it, man. It's a Perfect segue to the last question. Right. Because the name of the podcast is live Better sell better. Right. Focusing on that person. Salesperson. So what would be that parting tip in terms of what is the life tip here? How to get more fulfillment, how to have more energy, how to be a better version of yourself. What would be your parting advice there?

Yeah, so great, great question. Right. And obviously, there's so many things out there. I would say be 100% mindful and protecting your mind space in your headspace. And what I mean by that is being very careful with what you consume and who you consume it with. So, for example, I don't watch the news to my Dutch, probably to my own detriment, realistically. But it serves me better to not watch the news because I know it's biased. Whichever side you fall on does not matter. So I don't watch the news. I'm careful what I consume. But also, this ties into who you get advice from, right? Like, I'm a firm believer. Only take advice from people who achieve what you want to achieve on a consistent level. That's so critical. It's kind of like I'm not going to get, you know, like, you know, workout advice from someone who's out of shape. It doesn't make sense. I want to get from the guy or gal who's, you know, in peak shape and condition for years, right? So again, you're protecting your mind space that's so vital. And when you do that, you start realizing very quickly, okay, well, I can only take advice from certain people. I'm gonna listen to kd. I'm listening to Marcus Chan now. I'm gonna listen to these people. Cool. Commit to that and make it very narrow your focus down to those people. Don't overwhelm yourself. Protect your mind space. More is not better. Less is more. Narrow your focus. Protect your mind. And when you do that, you. You're more likely to execute on what you learn to get the results you're actually looking for in your life, your relationships, sales, whatever you want to improve.

I love it. And he snuck a little word in there towards the end, right? Which is execute. If you're going to listen, if you're going to learn, if you're going to read, if you're going to observe, execute. So, my man, this flew by. I'm actually shocked that we're already at time here. I was like, man, I got more I want to dive into. But how can they get more of you, Right? Where can they find you? What do you got out there. Like, how can they get more of what you're putting out right now?

Awesome, man. Appreciate that. Katie. So obviously you can find me on LinkedIn. The only out speedos in the tagline. You can also head to Marcuschan IO Resources. That's Marcuschan IO Resources. Tons of free content there. Resources, webinars, etc. All designed to help you sell more, sell better, and live better too.

Hell yeah, my dude. Thank you for your time, your energy, your insights. This was great. I'm definitely gonna have you back, man. But I appreciate you.

Thanks so much.

Hell yeah.