From the NFL to SDR to Sales Leader with Ernest Owusu

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What up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the live Better Sell Better podcast. It's it's your host Kevin Dorsey, AKA kd. And today we're talking pro sports. We're talking NFL, we're talking hand to hand combat. Well, maybe not hand to hand combat, but we are going to talk a lot about the correlation between professional athletes and the top 1% of what they do and how that carries over into the sales development world. Because I'm so pumped today to have Ernest Owusu on the show. He leads the sales Dev over at 6 cents, growing to over almost 40 SDRs there. He's the co founder of Sales for the Culture recognizes a sales leader you need to know. A sales thought leader you need to follow. Oh, and he was a professional athlete. He actually made it to the show. I only get to tell the stories of what could have happened, you know, because I blew my knee out. If it weren't because I blew my knee out, I would have made it. But I digress. What this means is he understands how professional athletes act, how they practice, how they think, how they're coached. And I think there are so many carryovers to the sales dev world, which is probably why he's succeeding so well there. So we're going to dive into it. My man today, Ernest. Welcome to the show, baby.

I love that introduction, and thanks so much for having me. I'm super excited to talk about this. This is.

This is going to be fun, man. And I think this is something we can definitely draw a lot of correlations. And I think oftentimes everyone talks about why athletes should make good salespeople, which I think is debatable. But I'm really pumped to kind of hear the crossover of what you've learned from making it to the NFL and kind of how that carries over. So I'm going to get right into it here. It's why people listen to the show. None of the backstories, none of that nonsense. We'll get right to it. What do you believe that SDRs could learn from NFL athletes?

Yeah, sure. And that's a great question, and it's interesting to call that out because people just fundamentally assume that if you're an athlete or if you're a professional athlete, that you just jump into the role and know exactly what to do and be successful. Like, yes, a lot of times we do see that, but there are specific reasons as to why that happens. But in particular, the one thing that I learned from my NFL experience, and this kind of goes from a culmination of being in high school, getting to college against the NFL, was the NFL athletes were obviously like phenomenal athletes, the best their craft, Right. But the reality is they were not quite as good as a lot of people think they were. At times it was more so the fact that a lot of these, like, prime hall of Famers, the ones that we always see on tv, they were just so much better at doing one or two things as opposed to other people that they could beat them regardless of that, Right? So, like, my thing, for example, my thing was when I was. When I got to the NFL, from high school, college NFL, I was always the strongest person on my team. It didn't matter what the environment was. And I knew that from my skill that I developed and kind of how I was playing my game, my strength was going to be the reason why I beat people. Right. If you look at amazing, you know, kind of going into football, if you know of some names out there, amazing, like hall of Famers, like a Michael Strahan, for example, a phenomenal defensive end for The New York Giants. He did one or two things, and that was it. One or two things. That's how he became a Hall of Famer. Right. So the really cool thing about the NFL experience is I saw that a lot of people were just really good at a couple things. And, you know, obviously that means that you still have to kind of hone your entire skill set and be really good all around. But the reality was they were just really good at a couple things, and no one else could beat them once they were doing those really well.

I love that's where you took it, because there's so many things that we can dive into. I literally was just talking about this with my managers two weeks ago. The greats get granular at. The greats get granular. They're good at the really small things, right? Whether they're really good at the bull rush or really good at the swim move, you know what's coming. Reggie White, he had. You knew. You knew what was coming, and he was just so good at it, you couldn't stop it. So I think that's a really good thing to, like, in a way, we're saying, like, lean into your strengths, and let's take this one step further is like, one, how do you develop a strength? But I guess even more important than how do you identify, like, if I'm an sdr, how do I identify what my strength is that I can lean into even more?

Yeah, that's a great question. Right. And it's something that, you know, especially for younger SDRs who are just starting to the game, that's going to have to be something that you're going to be very conscious of about yourself and always looking for feedback from others. But what I've noticed is, in particular, tactically, there are some people who are really good on the phone, naturally, email, social as well. There are also some people who are really good organizationally. My thing as an SDR was in full transparency. I came literally from playing football. I knew nothing about tech. I didn't know anything of what I was talking about. But I was beyond discipline. The mindset I had of discipline was what separated me from everyone. And I knew that with my discipline from coming from the NFL, if I applied it to being really conscientious and thoughtful with my organization, I was not going to let anything slip through the cracks. When I was reaching out to people, whether it was getting a lead from an event or I see a certain person's opening, clicking my emails, I would make sure I note that person, and I'M not letting them go.

Right.

And through time, I did develop the business acumen. I got better on the phone, I got better through my email. But my organization around staying in front of the people who are most likely to convert and being disciplined with it was the reason why I was successful. So I guess to kind of piggyback on it. So some people, again, they've just kind of noticed naturally, as they're getting feedback from themselves, from others, that maybe you have a knack for closing people really well on the phone. Maybe you have a knack for writing really hyper personalized emails in a concise way at scale. Right. So there's definitely an element of trying to figure out tactically what you're good at. But once you kind of like zone into that, you got to sprint and be naturally curious to make sure that you're developing it to the best of your ability.

Now, that discipline that comes through, and this is where we're going to go with this next, I think it's so important because people watch football, right. And they see these NFL players on the screen and that's all they see. Right. Like they see them playing the game without knowing how much goes into prepping for that game.

Right.

And prepping for that one team. Right. You're practicing for a team all year long. Right. So we'll take this a different direction. So we've talked a little bit about what SDRs can learn from NFL players. What could sales leaders learn from NFL coaches that would make their teams better?

Yeah. And I think, you know, with. With SDR teams, especially talking about SDR leaders, the most important thing by far is hiring and retention. You got to bring on really strong people and be able to keep them. And it's funny because all of us out there who kind of just know, everyone kind of knows, like those knuckleheads in the NFL, the ones that are always getting in trouble, the ones that, you know, they eventually become bust. Right. If you think about how much time and energy NFL teams put into their evaluation process for they assign people, they are very well aware of what kind of person they're bringing on board. But the reality is they either are looking at people for potential or accepting the risk of the person. Right. So my biggest thing as an SDR leader is when I'm hiring someone and I see that one thing that kind of makes me a little bit shaky as to whether or not the person is going to pan out. You kind of have a decision to make. Are you going to ignore that or are you going to Embrace the fact that you have to manage that. And, you know, a big rule of thumb that I kind of have with my managers is if someone is spending. If someone is, you know, in a conversation with you for 30 minutes, they're spending three minutes talking about something that does not align with your team, they've just spent basically 10% of the interview showing you that they're not going to do something. They're going to do something you don't like. So why would you expect that person to not do that 10% of the time that they're actually in the role? Right. So my biggest piece of feedback I can give to any kind of manager is, you know, that hiring and retention is mission critical. But it is so important to make sure that, like, you actually embrace the person for what they are and don't hire people because you're in a rush or you feel like it's something that just needs to happen right now. And embrace every single aspect of the person, regardless of whether you like it or not.

That can come back to bite you in a big way. And a lot of times it does, both in the NFL and sales. I love that 10% they talked about something you didn't like for 10% of the interview. I like that. I like that analogy. So I think something else that maybe a lot of people don't understand about, like, professional teams is how many coaches there are. Right?

Yeah.

You've got the head coach, and then you've got coordinators, and then you've got position coaches, and then you've got strength coaches for those positions. And then you have mindset coaches, you have nutritionists, you have. I mean, there's so many coaches. I've had several friends in. In the league, and like, I told them, like, there was a footwork coach for the footwork. Literally their only job was to work on the footwork and analyze the footwork of their defensive backs. Right. So where I'm going with this, if you could design the perfect sales org in terms of coaches and coordinators and things like that, what would that org look like?

Yeah, that's a great question. And you kind of highlight a couple things I'd focus on. And I. I know you're huge on this, Katie, and I highly encourage anyone who's listening to, like, really double down on this. It's freaking mindset, man. Like, you have to have someone who's, like, strictly dedicated to making sure that people have the mindset to dominate this role. Right. And whether that's the. The mindset of staying competitive of, you know, having that North Star to achieve your. To achieve your goals. Like, if I could design an org and have that one skill set, similar to the NFL of your nutritionist or your rehab coach or whatever it may be, probably number one is just that mindset. And I think a lot of orgs don't really think like that. Right. The next thing is definitely just pure tactics across each channel. Between email, social, call, I could be a manager, a great coach on a bunch of different things. But if I could have one person who's just really good at the fundamentals of how to call as well as how to email, that person can separate themselves from a generalist. Right. So tactically, as an SDR org, having someone who has the ability to really be a master within each function, each channel is really important. And I guess last but not least, again, I kind of highlight on this, and this probably goes back to my own strength as an sdr. But that conscientiousness, that organization, right? Like having someone who can basically coach people on how to stay super organized all the time to make sure nothing slips through cracks, that they're being very conscientious and thoughtful with how they're doing things. Those are some different elements that I would love to have within my org and I think others should definitely prioritize as well.

It's something like, I thought a lot about. I could build, like, 100%. Like, I want to. Like, all these teams have multiple sports psychologists, multiple. Why don't we have that for sales? Right? Where's my foot? Where's my footwork coach? Right? The equivalent of you're talking about, like, the email coach and the call coach and the organization coach. Right? Like, each one of those being specialized and having that dedicated time with them, like, to me is like, the dream. Or like, I was literally, like, looking to bring in, like, a hypnotherapist for my team last year, right? Like, not. And before anyone freaks out, here's hypnotherapist. Like, I'm trying to brainwash people. No, that's not. That's the hypnosis people see on cruise ships and shit. That's not what I'm talking about. Like, it can help so much with mindset and confidence and, like, working through things that we've all been through in life. Because I do think, like, if that foundation is there, man, like, what people can turn into, right? And go through it. And so I think with this, then if you think about practice, right. How often did you practice? Like, I think, again, like, people People don't get this inside. This is a fun opportunity to give some insight. How long is it? How long is a football game? By the way, Rob, how long is a football game?

Four quarters. 60 minutes. Right?

60 minutes. Okay. How long and how often did you practice for that 60 minute game?

Yeah, so that was something that I think, you know, especially the professional level. We laugh about a time. It's like with all the work that we're doing, we're literally doing. And the thing is, it's not even just 60 minutes because the clock is running right. Each play is like a couple of seconds.

And if you're on defense, if you're on defense, you're only playing half of the game. And you're playing 75% of the snaps. And of the snaps, a snap takes a whopping, what, 12 seconds of play maybe?

Exactly.

Right, exactly. So walk people through how often you practice for those six to eight second bursts on the field.

Oh, my goodness. Like, it's when I talk about, especially at the professional level, being addicted to your craft, the true hall of Famer is the best in the game. Like, it is something that you were doing all the time, rep after rep after rep, like even just to give everyone a perspective into this. So as a defense alignment, one of the things I had to do was I had really good hand work. My hands were kind of the way I made my money. So I would catch myself as well as other teammates. At times, like when we're not even in practice, as we're like going around corners, like doing hand moves, doing hand moves, or like you're constantly like looking at people and you're like trying to like catch their body position to think of how you would attack them if you're pass rushing. And like that level of addiction was something that almost every NFL athlete had to a certain degree. And like that just kind of goes to that whole mindset of just having the natural curiosity. Right? So I almost wouldn't even want to know how many hours I spent practicing because it was something that like, yes, throughout the course of the day I have like design team practices, I film review things like that. But it was something that I did literally every second that I possibly could. And I can even think about the off season, right? The off season was like my dream time because I knew that especially like once I left college, I knew that I could literally go. And you gotta obviously be mindful of like taking care of yourself and not overworking. But I know why I could go literally 10 hour days of just like Getting some good footwork in, working my hands, lifting really hard, getting some speed training, getting some agility training, and just kept going over and over and over and focusing on the little tiny things that need to be improved. But yeah, like, I honestly probably don't want to know how much time I spent because it probably make me a little worried. But definitely you got the message.

You got the message across. That's what I want people to hear, because it's probably one of my biggest gripes with the sales industry, and especially at the SDR level, is how little dedication there is to practice. Everyone says they want to be great, but then they don't practice like, they want to be great, right? There isn't that obsession. There isn't that I'm waking up and going, all right, I'm gonna practice this 30 times on my own because I want to be great. The same example you were given about, like, looking at people's body positions and checking angles and like, I'm reading billboards and going, like, how would I reword that? How would I sell that thing over there? What problem does that solve if I were to take that to market, how would I go through it? Right? That obsession needs to be there. And so actually. So let's take it here then. I don't know. There's a right or wrong answer to this, but do you believe SDRS can develop that obsession or do they need to have it already coming in?

You could definitely develop it. Like, I knew just in full transparency, like, when I finished playing football, I got feedback from people that'd be really good at sales, and that's kind of what started to develop my natural love for it. But like, I, you know, if you're really focused on the long term vision of what you want to, of where you want to go, and like, you have the mindset and you're super focused and motivated to get there. Like, I think that's something that can easily do, but not easily. I want to rephrase that. I definitely think that is something that can be developed because once you start kind of getting those experiences and winning with them, you'll see the benefits of constantly thinking like that. So again, I played in the NFL and I was not thinking about looking at this email or looking at this one Persona and looking at all these things constantly as to what I could do to try and tap into an account. But I definitely developed it. So it wasn't a natural passion that I originally had once I got into the role.

How did you deal with the pressure of not only just NFL, where, again, I don't really understand, like, you are now a commodity, right? Like, it is a business now. It's no longer like, you miss a play or you miss a practice or you get a flag, like you're fined for that. You don't show up like that. It's a business. I think people miss that. The pressure of not only to get there, but also once you're there, to maintain it. How did you deal with the pressure of that? Because I think sdr, especially early in sales, the pressure of hitting quota, the pressure of making that cold call. There's a lot of mental games people play with themselves. How did you keep yourself in a mental state where the pressure didn't break you, but in ways it lifted you, it improved your performance?

Yeah, that's a great question. And for me, it just came down to really narrowing in on what my process was like. If I could create a really succinct, repeatable process that I could go over every single time, and I knew that I knew kind of why and how things were operating, that would typically go in the direction of a win. That's kind of what I focus on. Because the reality is you might have one week where you get zero meetings. That's followed by another week where you have 10 meetings, whatever it may be. But if you're following the same process that typically yields the same kind of results, that allowed me to kind of ride that wave and make sure that, okay, you know, I didn't quite have the week that I didn't have that I wanted to have. I'm not going to just kind of reinvent everything and throw everything out the books and just make sure I'm doing things completely differently. Like, I'm going to trust myself. I know that through time, talking to my managers, learning my experiences, this typically does really well for me. Maybe if I wasn't performing the way I want to, I'll go back and double down on the fundamentals to make sure that, like, everything's intact. But if it is, then I trust my process. And that's kind of what I did as an athlete where. Yeah, like, especially in the NFL, if you jump off sides on the last second of the game, you're not just fine, you're probably getting fired. Right. So it was definitely a very aggressive environment I came from where, like, you know, I could not make mistakes. But even in that, when I was going through that process, I knew that, okay, like, I have a way of operating my business. I'm my own business as A commodity. And I trust the fact that if I make mistake, that that's kind of. I've positioned myself in the best way to succeed. And if that happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Right. So that's kind of the same mentality that I brought into my time as an SDR when I also coached my SDRs right now.

It's funny, man. It's actually. It's one of the reasons why I can't watch preseason football.

Oh, my gosh.

I. I can't. I can't. I can't watch it because I know what's at. You watch a corner drop an interception, and he knows he just lost a job. He knows that was his. He knows that if he had caught that ball, all his dreams would have come true.

Yep.

But he dropped it. Or you see someone get hurt. Like, I literally. I'm actually getting goosebumps talking about this. I can't watch it because I know. I know in that moment what that meant, and that would. And that was it. You could have got the contract or you didn't. And because of that one play, that one moment, it breaks my heart. Like, I can't. I can't watch it. I hate watching preseason. Someone gets hurt, and I'm like, that was that everything they'd worked so hard to get to this level gone just like that. And you know, that the instability there, I think, is just something people also don't know. The mental toll that takes on people, you know, and so if we look to how to, like, kind of keep going through this is. I was pumped to ask you this question. You know, actually, I'm going to scoot back here real quick. How many teams did you play for in the NFL? Because you also did some Canadian League, too, correct?

Correct. Yeah. So I played for the Buccaneers. So happy they won super bowl last year as well as the Vikings.

Okay, so culturally, how different were the cultures of those teams, or were they pretty much the same?

Yeah, I'd probably say they were. They were relatively similar. I mean, again, we talked about the instability of the NFL. The Vikings was a little bit more like, we want to keep everyone, be a family, be a strong culture. Like, we don't want to cut you unless we feel like we have to. Versus the Bucs was definitely a bit of a meet factory, where it was like, one person in, one person out. So culturally, they were a little bit different. But at the end of the day, it's all production business. So everyone kind of knew that we just kind of Marched to the beat of that.

And so then how do you kind of try to create that professional culture within your SDR teams, right? Where, like, people know it's a job, people know, like, this is my livelihood, people know they got to show up and do what they're supposed to do. Like, how do you create that kind of professional culture within your sdr?

So I will say I've definitely kind of improved on some of the cultural aspects I had from Minnesota and Tampa. But the one thing that I mentioned with Minnesota is we were very much of a family, even though it was definitely a business. And we knew that if you, again, if you're the person who fumbled on fourth down to lose the game, you're probably fired. Right. So what I've actually instituted here from our company values is we have a value, and it's acronym stands for family. Family is fun, accountability, mindfulness, integrity, love, and. Yes, Right. So within all the constructions, within that, that's kind of how I make sure that, okay, you know, we're a team and, like, we all got to hold each other accountable.

Right?

Like, we still have numbers to hit. Like, I love you, I think you're awesome to the team, but we still gotta march the beat and make sure our organization is running. That mindfulness aspect of, I was trying to want to hire with diversity in mind, and different people come from different backgrounds, so we all gotta be mindful and conscious of kind of what we're building within our org. Right. So there are different aspects that I've taken away from the NFL. But in particular, I did realize one thing that was a little bit unique from Minnesota and Tampa was the need for a culture, a defined culture. Because when you're going through tough times or things are great, that's kind of more or less the reason why you succeed or fail. And I definitely learned that from Minnesota. And the really cool thing about that was it was actually the year that Adrian Peterson is like, a really good running back. It was a year that he was like nine yards short of breaking the NFL record. We had just come back from, like, I think a 2 in 16 season, but we had a really strong culture. And despite the fact that, you know, we had a running back who people were kind of shaky about, we didn't necessarily have the strongest team. Our culture was the reason why we were able to go as far as we did that season and have someone who eventually almost broke a record. Oh, yeah, no, that's.

That's the fun stuff. And I do think it's not focused on Enough. I was actually talking with a CEO friend of mine. I was like, one of the hardest parts about sales leadership is you don't actually get the chance to rebuild, right? So, like, if I got hired as the coach, you know, actually, you know Jacksonville, right? I got hired as the. I'm Urban Meyer going to Jacksonville. I'm not expected to win the super bowl my first year or my second year or my third year. Like, you have time to rebuild and what almost every coach talks about coming in is the first thing they say is building a winning culture, right? And they focus on that culture first. In sales, sometimes we always get that opportunity. Opportunity, right. Like, all right, you went oh and 16 last year. You better win the super bowl this year. You're like, okay, like, all right, let's, let's see how we can do that. You don't get that chance to rebuild a little bit. So. All right, so now the question I was really looking forward to asking you here, because it's just, it's out there and it's completely hypothetical and conceptual, but I get to ask it, right? So in the NFL, there's contracts and you earn your contract, right? Like you get drafted. That was you earned your first contract. And most of those contracts are what, two to three years, Sometimes a little bit longer. Mostly two to three years. How you play in those first two to three years earns you your next contract. And if you did well, that contract goes up pretty significant, right? And then to the next one. I've always loved this idea of like, what if that's how sales teams were run, right? Where it's like, all right, here's your year, here's your first contract. It's two and a half years. Here's what you're paid for. Here are the duties of that. And then you earn that next contract, right?

And so now it's like, all right.

You'Re paid even more for potentially doing the same things you were doing on your rookie contract, but you've shown you can do it consistent, so now you're getting paid even more and so and so forth.

Right.

Even for sales leaders. Like, it'd be, wouldn't it be nice if you got a three year contract?

I would love that.

Would that be nice to wake up to? So I wanted to throw this out there. What are your thoughts on that? If you look at, like, how. How those are structured in the NFL, do you think that could ever work in the sales industry?

I definitely think it could. Right. One thing I will add to this, similar to the NFL, Is if you're not producing at any point in the contract, they still can cut you.

Right?

That's always something that goes away. But yeah, to think about that, especially for myself, like I was a, I was a projected late round draft pick, actually went undrafted, right. The thing that I was super focused on is I knew that if I got the opportunity to produce at a high rate, I could make the same amount of money, if not more than my first rounder. Right? So being able to put it down on paper and show the organization what your true value is and get compensated for it was something that I wish sales orgs could do that and basically create structures where it's like we're going to invest in this one person because we know this person can bring x percent more than a typical person in terms of overall quota taint. So this is what we're going to give them. The caveat to that is similar to NFL contracts is that last two to three years, most of those contracts are backloaded. So you better still keep performing, right? A little bit. But I would absolutely love to be in a system like that because it's true ownership and knowing that I don't just have to hit my number, but if I also far exceed it, I'm going to get compensated for it accordingly.

And that's also why I've liked this idea. It's not just about getting compensated accordingly but like for longer. Because in sales guard, you blow out your quota, you made more money that month, right? Or if you blew out your quota, you made more money that quarter, then you're right back to zero again. Whereas with an NFL, Tom Brady's getting paid with Tom Brady's getting paid right now because of his history of performance and it keeps going up and then that money is put in front, right? Saying, all right, like we've seen your performance, yeah, here's your next three year contract and yeah, it doubled. We're going to pay you twice as much to pretty much do the exact same thing. Right? But what I think is interesting how, how many NFL players do you think are money motivated? Like they're out there doing it for the money.

A lot, I would say a lot. But it is interesting though. And you know, I will say when I got to that level, yes, I wanted a fat contract. I wanted like have it written down. I wanted a 5 year, 25 million 15 millionaire guaranteed, right? I want a really good contract. But the really cool thing about getting to that level was I was more addicted to the craft of becoming a professional. So being really good at what I was doing. And the money was a byproduct of that. And that's actually kind of what I pulled away from my sales career. But I will say, a lot of NFL athletes are like, beyond motivated by the money because they know if they produce, they'll get paid accordingly.

Yeah, there's always that balance because you have the sum where it's like, they're addicted to the craft, and that's what motivates them. And they get the money as the byproduct, and you have the other people that are motivated by money, so they become addicted to the craft. They're like, I want that $10 million contract. And I know to get that $10 million contract, I gotta get 14 sacks this year. If I can get 14 sacks this year. Like, you know, they're planning around it. Like, I had a friend who. It's always funny. This is the attention to detail. He also played dn, he knew there against of all good teams, against Cleveland. He just owned that end. Like, he's like. He's like, if I can get five sacks against them, yep, the rest of the year is going to play out. But, like, that, like, he was like, I know for whatever reason, I can beat this guy consistently. And, like, he would focus even extra energy to those games because it's like, this is where I know I'm going to, like, make that money. Because at the end of the year, that stat line shows 12. I got to my 12, and I'm fine. So I just. I was curious about that because, like, some people, I know, they want the money, but they're doing it because they love the game. Yeah, there's other people that love the game because of the money.

Exactly.

There's always that weird. That weird balance there. So. Okay, so we got a couple more questions here to, I guess, follow up or finish this out here. So let's talk about the idea of, like, you know, the draft. How can SDRS kind of, like, earn that next role?

Right.

Kind of get drafted where that means landing the SDR role they want or finally landing that AE role. Right. Like, how can SDR set themselves to be drafted, you know, first round, get to the company, the team that they want to get to?

Yeah, sure. So I think the hardest one that people kind of struggle with is trying to find that way from the SDR to ae. And what I kind of typically recommend people to do is to know that your time from when you very first sign that contract to you're in the point where you're eventually interviewing for the opportunity is to look at your time as an sdr, as an interview, if that's what you want to do. If you want to be the ae, if you want to take that role in your organization, look at the entire landscape of your year, 2, 3, whatever it may be, as one big interview, right? And your job at the organization is to sell not just to through your own production, but to the entire org as to why you need to be the best person, take on this opportunity. So it's the exact same thing as being a salesperson. Like identify your buyers, know what gets them to tick, know what kind of value you're looking for, and find ways throughout your time in the organization to sell across the board why you're the right person and to back it up always by far with pure production. So I've always encouraged people to do that. Even small things were like looking for additional opportunities to shadow calls or to take calls that maybe aren't quite qualified. And using those, if you have like a course or a gong. I always encourage people or any kind of like recording software. I always recommend SDRs to take a disqualified lead or account and try and run it on your own. Record the call and get feedback from everyone across the board. Then apply that feedback to show people that I know how to sell.

Right?

That is a very tangible thing you can do to at least show if you don't have the opportunity at hand because you're trying to find a way to interview or get the role, to just show people that, yeah, I don't know how to sell right now. But here's what I did. I took your feedback and look what's going to happen when I do get the opportunity to become an ae.

I love that advice. I gave something very similar recently, like, oh, but I'll get in trouble. I said, then you're working for the wrong company point blank. If you, if you did something like that. And they said you're not allowed to do that and you are now fired, you weren't gonna get one, you weren't gonna get your shot anyway. Two, you're just working for the wrong company. So I love that idea because it is like, you get to see it, you get to show it. I also think that's one of the correlations people forget about, you know, sports and you know, sales is that NFL draft is the best of the best of the best, right? Like, these aren't just people that showed up one day. Like, you know what, I wanna, I'm gonna try this. Like, you Know, someone told me I'd be good at football. It's already been so filtered.

Whereas in the sales world, that's a.

Lot of us, we're a bunch of misfits where it's like, someone, no, you'd be good at sales. Let me try this, right? But then we expect to be treated like these professional athletes who are though, dedicated to their craft inside and out, that discipline is there and that attention to detail, the film review, the call review, like all those things are so valuable. So I got two questions left for you here, man, we've already been going for 40 minutes. Like, I knew this was gonna be a fun one. Like, I'm really, really enjoying this. I'm sure everyone else is like, God, how many more NFL type questions can we have?

I could go for days on this.

So y' all can just calm down. So I got two last questions though. So the first one really is just kind of micro recap, right? Because like people remember the beginning, they kind of remember the middle, but then they also remember the end. If you could give three pieces of feedback, what are the key three takeaways from this conversation you want people to remember, what would those three key takeaways be?

Yeah, so I think first and foremost it's to find a way. And there are a lot of resources, whether it's your manager, yourself, other people, whoever it may be, to understand what you're really good at and just perfect it. Be addicted to the process, to be relentless in terms of trying to find a way to make yourself strong at that. That's first and foremost. I would highly encourage everyone tactically. Again, this goes back to my, my strong suit as an SDR of trying to find some way to be super organized with your follow up, with your process of making sure you're not letting anything go. Anything go. That's something that I personally was a big advocate for. One thing I didn't mention, which in selling in general is just providing value, right? Like when we're reaching out to people through calls, through emails, through social touches, like, you know, people take meetings with people because they're giving them something that's going to make them do their job better. So providing value is something I'd highly encourage. But I think to kind of net it all from my personal experience as an NFL athlete is be addicted to the process, perfect your craft, and always try and find ways to improve. And it was really cool to see at the NFL level that some people weren't necessarily the greatest at everything. They were just really, really good at one thing. And they were so addicted to making themselves good at that that they could beat everyone else with that. And I took that away from my time as an sdr, as an aide, as well as a leader. And that's kind of how I've grown to make this an awesome career.

I love that. I absolutely love that. And then to wrap on this, right, so the name of the podcast is Live Better Sell Better. Right. Like, I have this weird idea that if we took better care of ourselves, if we got more in fulfillment of life, if we have more energy and happiness and joy, the sales would also improve from it. Right. What would your live better advice be for people listening?

Yeah. So it's interesting again, we talk about culture on my team literally every single week. We commit to each other every single week. One thing that's going to take care of yourself better.

Right?

And it could be I, no matter what, today I will go outside and walk for an hour with no phone, no interruptions, just, just time to just sit there and think about myself. I'm going to work out today because I know that whenever I work out, it makes me feel better. Sales can be a grind. It's really important to have very tangible things that you hold yourself accountable as well as also holding others to hold you accountable to them that help you feel better every single day. So for our end, as I mentioned, I committed this week, I'm going to work out at least three times a week. Despite the fact that I have one year old triplets and all this stuff going on with work, I need to find time to do that because when I'm in a better state mentally, I perform better, my life is better. So I would highly encourage everyone on here to think of one thing and hold yourself to it and then also let someone else know about that so they can hold you to it as well.

Oh yeah, no, I think. And that's the extra there. Not a lot of people mentioned having someone hold you accountable to taking care of yourself. Like, and I do think, like, that is something that we often miss. And I think if people understood, like, that's why NFL teams have so many coach. Right? It's to make sure at the most, smallest detail that you're doing the right things. Right. And at that level, you know, I very few, I'm sure NFL players go, stop, micromanage. Just, just let me do my thing. It's like, no, like we're here to help you get better. And so Ernest, my man, this was amazing. It was everything. I was hoping it could be? Where can people get more of you? Find you, follow you? Where are you putting content out? Like where can they get more of Ernest?

Yeah, most definitely. So definitely reach out to me on LinkedIn. LinkedIn, that's Bashlass Earnest Awusu. I also have a Twitter. Funny. It's the, my, my Twitter name is the earnestawusu. There are actually a lot of Ernest Owusu's out there. That's the reason why I do this. Very interesting. That's the reason why I did that. But both avenues. Probably more active on LinkedIn. But Twitter is also a good place to reach out as well.

Hell yeah, my man. Well, I appreciate you. Thank you so much for your time, your energy and insights and I'm sure we'll be talking more about this this for many a time to come, man. So we'll be chatting again soon. All right. Love it.

Thanks so much.

All right, later man.